#and how the conclusion of that ep is the Dean stand in killing the Sam stand in for the greater good

[acesammy]

man I love season 4 so much.. the way almost every single monster of the week throwaway hunt contributes to the inevitable ending is just so [screams]

[laora-inn]

Supernatural - 15x17. The Empty and the Death

As all my SPN metas, it’s Destiel positive and happy end positive, don’t like - don’t read.

At first I’ve wanted to add this post here, to my specs about the last 7 eps repost. 

But 15x17 is just SO big. It deserves SEVERAL separate pieces. First of them will be dedicated to this: THE EMPTY IS NOT AN ENEMY. 

Why do I think so? ‘Cause it looks like Meg now, and Meg wasn’t an enemy. She surely was evil, especially for Sam in seasons 1-3 (and season 4 beginning), she supported Lucifer, but THIS Meg, Meg 2.0, which “pretty face” the Empty wore, was also extremely helpful to Cas and attached to him. In 13x04 we saw the Empty in Cas’s form, and then it took the form of his crash who in 8x17 DIED for him. Hmm. In 15x13 Ruby said that Cas and the Empty are clearly connected and he can change something in the Empty’s realm to make it better for all the dead angels and demons. Dumah in 14x08 was possessed by the Empty, but we also saw the Empty’s true form there - it’s black goo. The same Cas was dead because of in 7x02. The same he was dying because of in 12x12. 

That’s Jack who woke Cas in the Empty. But it’s Cas who woke the Empty, and I strongly doubt that the Death, or Chuck, or whoever else except Cas can return the Empty to the sleep. They are connected indeed: to know more you should read @winchestersingerautorepair​ posts about self-studies, growth and forms. 

The Empty is a part of Cas, symbolically though. He woke it and it’s progressing with him. 

Meg was Cas’s Amara (the Queen, as the Empty said of Meg in 15x17), his mirror in some sense, but the Empty isn’t Meg. That was Cas who made the Empty look like that! 

It could be Ruby in 15x13, for example, but no. Meg. Why the hell if there is no connection to Cas?! 

Surely, THERE IS a connection. The Empty is bigger, more literal and less independent Cas’s mirror than real Meg was. And once it is awake, it can’t go back to sleep until Cas lets it. 

Notice - the Empty does only the things Cas lets it. It’s listening to him - his sureness. His doubts. If he can stand for himself - it resurrects him. If he wants to give up his life and make a deal - it takes it. If he wants to talk with Ruby - it has nothing against it. If he feels like he is expendable - it tortures him. Why not? In 15x17 Cas said to Sam that he’ll not let him end his own life just to see Billie - but Cas ended his life couple episodes ago just to see dead Ruby! And he was SURPRISED when Dean called him an idiot for that! No wonder that in 15x13 the Empty treats Cas badly.    It’s like the part of his self!

Back to the black goo in 7x02 and 12x12 - it was CAS who killed himself. Not some external enemies, but the internal one. Always.

And if we’ll look to this “enemy” closer, it appears not to be an enemy at all!  My biggest enemy is me, as Lady Gaga sings. But my best friend is me as well.

What did the Empty do from its appearance? 1) Resurrected Cas.  2) Didn’t touch Jack’s soul even if he’s a half-angel and it has rights for him, so Jack could be returned to life - to Cas as well.  3) Made Cas think about his happiness. Said, that he could let himself to be happy. Not “he could be happy”, but “let himself to be happy”. Do you feel the difference?  Let yourself to be happy = understand, how happy you already are.  4) Let Billie keep Jack in its realm, away from Chuck, so Jack could be returned to life - to Cas as well.  5) Let Cas to talk with Ruby to get the Occultum.  And I’m asking you - what about all of it is wrong? What is bad? If it seems like nothing than it’s probably BECAUSE IT’S NOTHING. To Cas, to the Winchesters - the Empty hasn’t done nothing bad at all. Only good things. 

In 15x17 some more things about the Empty were revealed: 1) In 15x13 Cas made the Empty doubt in Billie’s fairness. I thought about it so hard - and here is my conclusion: when Cas’d known about Billie’s promise to the Empty, he was very suspicious. He even asked the Empty - that’s what she promised? (To return the Empty to sleep). She can do it?  I think she can’t. And after Cas’s questioning Billie the Empty began to question Billie’s intentions itself.  2) The result of that is Chuck’s Death Book in Winchesters’ hands. ‘Cause the Empty came to the Death library to talk about trust issues, but didn’t see Billie there. It saw Sam Winchester instead and gave the God’s book to him. Is it so easy to play the Empty? Naaah. I don’t think that’s just Sam’s luck.  3) The Empty is sure that God has power even in its realm and doesn’t like that. Controversial, but: if it’s not true, HOW THE HELL could Chuck resurrect Lilith? She’s a demon, and demons come to the Empty when die. So, God has power in the Empty - and that’s how he could resurrect Cas in 5x01 and 5x22, possibly in 7x02. IF IT WAS GOD!!! ‘Cause we know now - he’s lying.  We know for sure that Chuck didn’t resurrect Cas in 13x04. Jack woke Cas up. Cas made the Empty wake up - something that NEVER happened before. The Empty brought Cas back to the Earth. No God, no lies, just Jack’s power and some “friendly cosmic entity” (c). And now I think it can be really friendly.     4) The Empty said it can’t go to Earth unless summoned. 

And here is speculation time. 

I think Billie is not THE REAL DEATH. She isn’t the true and rightness one - like Chuck isn’t the true and rightness God. Billie is just a small fry, a reaper that took the place of something bigger, but didn’t understand its significance. In 11x02 Billie used the name of the Empty like a threat to Sam, but I don’t think she knew anything about the Empty as a “Shadow” or a “friendly cosmic entity”. Back then Billie was just a reaper with an order fixation - who might know about how to become the new Death though.  Billie showed as the Death only in 13x05. We saw the Empty at first time one episode before - in 13x04. Once again - I think there is no coincidence. 

I think the real Death is the Empty. The one that’s a part of you, like real God is the one who is the part of you (’cause God is in everything, like Adam said in 15x17). The one that can be your friend and bring you the peace, and understanding, and CHANGE - always for the best.  I think the Empty could be such Death for Cas - and this Death wouldn’t be an end, not in his case. It will be just a beginning. 

I suppose in 15x18 Billie’ll come for Dean, and Sam, and all the people they saved - but then, sooner or later, the Empty will be summoned. And it’ll help. Now I’m interested in what did Billie do from her first appearance. Was it good? Or not? I think - not. You? 

[almaasi]

reaction post typed while watching SPN 14x14 “Ouroboros”

conclusion: yes, apparently feet can look gay, and Dean and Cas are both queer by proxy

04:35pm

me: still v magnesium deficient, sick, dizzy

LET’S WATCH A THING AND THINK ABOUT IT WITH MY PUDDING BRAIN

any thoughts stated here are run through a pudding filter so please do not be alarmed if they are incoherent or a weird colour

okay it’s a Steve Yockey episode so i guess he’s gonna give us a great character and then kill them before the title card

-

04:41

hang on i need to eat and i can’t eat and think at the same time so i’mma go watch an episode of shaun the sheep brb

-

04:46

okay well i watched half an episode and ate half my food so,... yay

LET’S WATCH THIS OTHER THING THEN

-

04:48

sam’s “i believe in us” *PUNCH* still makes me laugh

-

04:49

the body on the AAAAAAAAAAAAA I’

M SCREAMING NOPE NOPE NOPE

-

can i just watch this whole thing with my hand over the screen

because that is what i’ doing rn

oh god i hate this

-

actually you know what

i just skipped to the title card

cause fuck that haahahhaah nope

-

oh lord it didn’t skip to team free will

how much of this do i have to take

-

oh okay tfw are here already

WELL GREAT NOW I HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHERE TO SKIP BACK TO

ASJFSDFHSFHSJ

-

04:54

i fuckin love rowena and how much they ask for her help even though they’re “enemies” except they’re clearly lowkey Fond of each other

also i like how this ep started in the middle of the case

-

04:56

rowena: “hello castiel” ;) ;) ;)

okay well

this pleases me

because i know the only way this ends is that cas is not interested and that’s the Point

because he <3s dean

but also why the hell is rowena into cas....... surely she knows he loves dean. unless she’s just into starting shit, i wouldn’t be surprised

-

04:58

the way jack says “i’m not dying”

10/10

-

04:59

cas: “he’s now claimed the lives of six people in northern new mexico”

why does he say “people” like that

-

05:01

dean’s throwing a looooot of salt at rowna. maybe because she keeps flirting with cas

-

“everything means something”

YEAH EXACTLY

DEAN’S SALTY BECAUSE ROWENA’S FLIRTING WITH CAS I’VE DECIDED

-

05:03

sam says dean can keep michael locked in his head “because he’s dean and dean is dean”

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah okay

expert closet curator, you mean

-

05:05

dean has a good feeling about bringing rowena in on this one??????????????? after all the snark????????????

cas: “they do have many books”

me: *squINTS REALLY HARD* i feel like they’re implying something else and neither of them are talking about the same thing. did dean set sam up on a date with rowena????????????

also?

DEAN AND CAS ARE ON A DATE. DEAN AND CAS ARE ON A DINNER DATE IN A DINER. ALERT ALERT ALERT

paralleling rowena and sam perhaps

-

05:08

concerned head tilt

oh god their love and mutual understanding and trust in each other is killing me with its softness

i’m so so so glad we get to see them in some downtime at fucking last

-

05:10

oh no jack’s coughing again

why can’t he have nice things

-

05:10

dean: “that’s what i’m supposed to say, right? i’m fine? keep on moving?”

cas: “no, dean”

the fact dean lets his guard down only with cas in private ;~;

-

sidenote, this episode is giving me my bloody valentine meets hunteri heroici vibes, which is nice because they’re two of my all-time fave episodes

but god i wish it would go easy on the cannibalism

-

05:14

dean: “i’m barely even sleeping” :D

THAT PAINED GRIN OH GOD

but also

i’m so emotional because he told anyone at all, but especially that of all people he told cas

of course he told cas, cas is his emotional sounding board

if this were a fanfic cas would offer to share the bed with dean and help him sleep

....but i mean, who knows, maybe dean was secretly hoping for that anyway

-

05:19

that’s the face of “dean doesn’t know what liturgical means”

-

05:22

jack: “what’s an av club?”

cas: “it’s a special club for people who do not play sports”

dean: *points at cas* “him. he’s av club”

mmmmmmmm yup

autistic nerd

dean’s baseball and track team, cas is av club and student tutoring

but also if dean ever got cas onto the baseball field cas would hit every ball first time

and dean would be swooning

BUT ALSO DEAN WOULD FUCKING LOVE AV CLUB ARE YOU KIDDING ME

he’d be in there with charlie every fuckin day and leaning seductively on furniture while cas does his nerd thing, until the point where something properly capures dean’s interest and then HE WANTS A GO and bats away everyone else’s hands and hogs the contraption for 3 hours. also he’d fix things when they break

DEAN TONE DOWN THE PROJECTION A NOTCH WOULD YA

JEEZ

look i’m just gonna count dean calling cas “av club” as flirting, because hello yes there is no way dean doesn’t find that interesting

-

05:30

i fucking knew it

the moment this episode opened and i saw the guy’s bare feet in the kitchen somehow i knew he was queer ??????????

like

i can’t explain it

but the fact there was a shot of his feet and his feet looked gay i can’t even

anyway this probably doesn’t even count as legit queer rep given he’s seducing guys and killing them so

stupid gay feet

sidenote: did ANYONE else get queer vibes from that opening scene? CAN PEOPLE’S FEET LOOK GAY OR IS THAT JUST ME

maybe it’s like... the sensuality of bare feet + cooking, breaking pointless gender roles n stuff, my brain has been coded by society’s bullshit to perceive sensual men as non-heterosexual

idk

but also. the foot-upward view of a new character... male gaze, right? and seeing the male gaze on a male character makes it queer

goddamn

it’s a thing

it’s a thing and the directing got the point across and it took me until now to work it out

GAY FEET

-

also

now i’m going back to cas’ line “six people”

my initial understanding of that line was that they weren’t all men

but the thing was the people didn’t need to be said that way if it was just men and women

my immediate instinct said the victims were non-binary, but i didn’t type it because i had no reason yet to believe that might be true and it seemed unnecessary to say it

but at this point, as the baddie hits on a guy at a truck stop in exchange for a ride, they’re clearly potentially queer victims

so

yeah that explains the inflection

-

05:41

on the one hand, i’m seeing a connection to that time dean was seduced by a siren

but see my problem with this is that the guy’s either gonna end up dead or saved and i don’t know which yet

i just want happy queer stories

so i’m pretty divided about this

but on the other hand, please, god, let this gorgon guy “sense things” about dean

ALSO WAIT

IS THIS THE FIRST GAY KISS ON THIS SHOW?????????? 90% SURE THIS THE FIRST GAY KISS. there might have been a background one once

PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE

EVEN IF IT’S EVIL AND TWISTED AND MAKES ME FEEL WEIRD

-

05:44

i feel like there should’ve been an optic nerve attached to that eyeball.. and a lot of gross stuff

but also thank goodness there wasn’t

ohdfjfdg i really hate this

but also i’m smiling?

-

05:46

cas: “is this amusing to you?”

the guy called him sir!!! eeheheh

-

05:47

cas: “you’re not standing alone, why doesn’t he mention me?”

dean: “maybe you’re not his type”

i mean. guess he can’t see angels. BUT ALSO

CAN WE UNPACK HOW UTTERLY QUEER EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS IS

WE NOW UNDERSTAND THAT NOAH’S TYPE IS QUEER GUYS

AND DEAN KNOWS THIS

SO BY SAYING CAS ISN’T NOAH’S TYPE THAT MEANS HE’S IMPLYING THAT HE HIMSELF IS

BECAUSE HE’S QUEER AF

steve yockey, this is the episode i was waiting to see from you

team free will working a case together, dean and cas on a date talking about their feelings, on a case about queer stuff

hell fucking yes

-

05:52

rowena: “need anti-venom in case one of you boys gets sloppy”

wouldn’t that mean noah kisses either cas or jack

god i’m so glad rowena’s there too

this episode is great sdgsfkg

-

05:53

ROWENA AND SAM FAKING A RELATIONSHIP + A DOG OH MRJGJD IFUCKING LOVE THIS

WHERE DID THEY GET THE DOG

WHERE’S THE BIT LATER WHERE DEAN AND CAS ~FAKE~ A RELATIONSHIP PLEASE

-

05:55

OH MY GOD THE VET STUCK A THERMOMETER IN JACK’S ASS

OH MY GOFH D:

-

06:00

noah: “then he doesn’t have to die like all the other men”

hmmmmmmm

okay so all the victims were men

which makes me even more curious about why cas used that inflection on “people”

cas also looked like of amused? definitely a misha expression rather than a cas expression, the little lilt of a smile on his lips like the way he says any word starting with “h”

maybe some of them were transgender men and cas didn’t know them before they died so could only guess as to their gender? maybe some of the bodies they found were not gender-conforming

it also kiiiiind of sounded like misha changing the script after a discussion on set about it

but if that were true then that means someone on set doesn’t believe gay or queer men are men? maybe? maybe i’m reaching there

but i’m genuinely caught up on that inflection and the use of that word, it really stood out to me

and it stands out especially, now, because like i said, we know the victims were men, we know team free will found them all, and we know they were queer.

but also it’s not dean saying it, it’s cas

and i can’t imagine any scenario where cas would have trouble with non-binary pronouns

if anyone has further thoughts on this, please direct me towards them

-

06:23

my browser broke?? and i lost a chunk of this post, but i had the above stuff backed up in email

i'mma go back a bit and try and remember what i typed

-

idk i think it was just about the fact noah confirmed all his victims were men which further confused me

and then said he also eats ladies

and then said some feminist stuff which made me sad that it came from the bad guy

but also that i could imagine cas saying something similar, deadpan, and then reaching for dean’s burger

-

* schmooch *

whEN DOES DEAN GET TO DO THAT

-

06:28

okay YES

I KNOW WHAT I WANT TO SAY

NOAH SAYS HELLO TO DEAN

WHY JUST DEAN

WHY IS HE FIXATED ON DEAN WHEN THERE’S 3 OTHER PEOPLE IN THE ROOM? and why only write the letter to dean?

I’LL TELL YOU WHY

BECAUSE DEAN’S BISEXUAL AF

AND YES HE IS HIS TYPE

REPRESSED “STRAIGHT” MEN WHO SECRETLY LIKE GUYS

CAN THAT BE ANY MORE OBVIOUS?? I THINK NOT

i love how this episode refers back to some of the older episodes, in the best possible way

conclusion: dean is bi

-

06:32

noah took the bag with the snek inside but i guess the snek esckep

-

06:34

maybe true love’s kiss will wake dean up

CAS QUICK

MIGHT AS WELL TRY RIGHT

-

06:40

hurts my heart how cas has apparently made peace with the fact he’ll outlive dean and sam

i guess it’s good but

can’t help but believe deep down he would rather die than live without them

-

and now i’m crying because cas says the point is that you got to know them at all

suddenly catharsis for future pain

-

06:47

oh NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAGGIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

D:

THIS IS THE WORST

-

06:47

rowena as michael??? okay, that i can get behind

ooh

BUT ALSO

OH NO

-

06:49

michael (about dean): “it didn’t work out. it was him. not me.”

flip of a classic dating line, making this QUEER AGAIN

-

06:55

JACK THE LIL HERO

WHAT DID YOU DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

//waits for the silence to be over

-

06:56

oh boy

-

06:57

OKAY WOW

WHAT AN EPISODE

i was really hoping it would turn into a plotty one, the way changing channels does at the end

this was really well done and i enjoyed it a lot!!!!!!!!! i mean, besides the squicks, and the fact the queer rep and feminist lines came from a bad guy

dean was 100% noah’s type

jack is the bestest baby bean

i feel so bad about the thermometer thing..... like, i’m not sure if it was meant to come across as funny? but there was no indication it should be... which is good i guess? but also i feel secondhand violated

DEAN AND CAS’ DATE AND TALKING ABOUT FEELINGS WHEEE

i like that this episode actually came full circle on that “dean vs michael” point, rather than having it be a one-off conversation and things aren’t resolved until a later episode

i think i’m gonna enjoy rowena as michael. and i like that she said yes because she does care about team free will

sad about maggie :c

but also all those other extra hunters were changed out pretty much episode so there was no real way to know who they were. they seemed pretty diverse though, across various episodes

i liked the asian lady vet!!!! she was fun. and i’m glad the asian gay guy didn’t die... where did he even disappear to though? who knows

overall 10/10? it had all the good shit i like so. yep.

I WANT MORE EPISODE LIKE THIS. QUEER CHARACTERS (PREFERABLY NOT EVIL), MORE ASIAN CHARACTERS, MORE TEAM FREE WILL ON HUNTS, MORE LADIES GETTING COOL ROLES AS PART OF THE TEAM AND/OR AS AN FRENEMY, MORE JACK SAVING THE DAY

MORE ROWENA IN PANTS

yeah

but more of all

MORE GAY KISSES FOR DEAN AND CAS

i love that the fact noah was fixated on dean put him in the “noah’s type = queer” category, and when noah kissed cas it did the same thing

so really, by evil proxy, noah made a point of showing us who’s queer

i mean we already knew

but HE SHOWED US

yee

-

no conclusion on why cas said p e o p l e though

[angeliclp]

Season 11 was... something. I mean it got some real highlights in there, like, I honestly hate Lucifer’s guts but... god, Misha was so damn fucking good as Lucifer! That man is such a gift it’s unreal. I am a big fan of Amara, I mean her little crush on Dean aside because he belongs to someone else, but I do really like her and she had every right to be pissed. I still don’t get why none of the idiots ever considered to just hear her side of the story, but well you know... plot and all that. Also God... or Chuck... I... I just don’t know what to do with all this. Because knowing what I do about the general plot of the last season, this whole thing is, like, pretty confusing tbh. But I guess I just gonna have to roll with it don’t I?

more rambling:

so... Amara's on the loose and obviously disguised herself as a baby, Dean's kinda connected to her, there's some kind of deathly virus going round which of course Sam got infected with and Cas is under a violent spell and got abducted by angels... I think it's safe to say that this is one royally fucked up situation

I can't even tell you how many times I just muttered "oh crap" in those first 40 minutes

also, if those douchebag angels hurt my Cas I'm gonna kill them

Crowley is... working a case?

so holy oil burns it out... is it just me or does this sound like... way too simple?

can someone please help Cas damnit?

ok, Crowley... not sure that is such a good idea there... pretty sure Amara could make you into sushi

you know... soul sucking aside, Amara kinda grows on me

11x04 is oh so good, I  mean I love Baby and a whole ep from her perspective is just so cool, and damn the shit the girl has seen in her life, how many times she got roughed up by the world, and by Dean... and yet she would never foresake her boys now would she?

Cas as a Netflix addict is a really funny image... you know like he's totally studying the behavioral part of the shit he's watching and in the end he's also totally drawing the wrong conclusions

Amara, darling, I know you have that really big crush on Dean because he freed you and he bore your mark and all that, but... he's already spoken for, hun, and I honestly doubt that you will stand a chance in the end

who knew angels could get panic attacks? my poor baby

why does Sam always get beaten up by creepy ass clowns... yikes

imaginary friends being real is a kinda comforting thought to be honest

I can't be the only one who thinks this whole Lucifer thing is like a real fucking bad idea... really fuck you Chuck for putting that idea into Sammy's head

also... why wouldn't anyone even entertain the idea of maybe talking to Amara? getting her side of the story? you're all just a bunch of dumb idiots really

jesus, they're all so damn delusional I really wanna smack my head on the table... repeatedly... maybe even until I crack it open...

CASTIEL YOU STUPID FUCKING SON OF A BITCH I SWEAR RIGHT NOW I REALLY REALLY WANNA KICK YOU SO DAMN HARD YOU STUPID IDIOT!

that said... I know I'm repeating myself but Misha is a genius..

he killed Rowena... did he really just kill Rowena?!

did Dean just nick Viagra? he's what? 37? I honestly doubt he's got any problems in that department...

is this... Eileen?

the start of 11x12 had me in pieces... Dean's face throughout the whole safe sex discussion was just priceless... and the way he went into full dad mode later on? perfect!

took them long enough to figure out there's something wrong with Cas... and it only took Lucifer practically spelling it out for these dumbasses

I'm feeling quite a bit compassion for Crowley... he's an ass most of the time but he doesn't deserve this

Dean is such a freaking fanboy... gosh it's adorable af

I loved 11x16 so much... and even though there wasn't anything that heavy in there it sure made me tear up

I so hope that Dean kills that fucking bastard, very slowly and painfully, for suffocating Sammy

wait, Dean leaves Baby unlocked and with the key plugged in in the middle of the fucking woods?! I highly doubt that

Rowena?!

wasn't Michael supposed to be the oldest son? I mean that was why Dean is his vessel, because he is the older brother. and now Amara says Lucifer is the older one? god these freaking plotholes...

Amara, hun, you know I'm totally rooting for you, but if you hurt my angel I might start reconsidering

Dean is pretty damn interested in Jesse and Cesar's relationship if you ask me

this is the first ep with Chuck as God and I already wanna throttle the fucker

this whole heavenly family therapy session is just hilarious af... most of all with Sam and Dean as counselors

oh god Cas! I've missed you so much baby

you know... knowing the series finale, at least the major plot point... the last couple of eps confuse the fuck out of me

who is this british chick? and who is the old man? AND DID THIS BITCH JUST SHOOT D`SAMMY?!

enter: Mary Winchester, ladies and gentlemen and everone inbetween... can’t wait!

[idontneedasymbol]

Sam & Dean, leadership, control, obedience, and choice

Spinning this off into a new post because this got so long -- I love this topic, so I have many Thoughts! (Most of this is focused on the psychological side of it as explored through fictional tropes -- the mythological side of their chosen roles is also fascinating and deserving of its own post!)

@zmediaoutlet​ wrote:

I really do feel quite strongly about this, which makes those metas where people insist on calling Dean ‘controlling’ actually a bit infuriating to read. Sam makes decisions; Dean follows. It’s not that way 100% of the time, but it is true way more often than the reverse. It’s part of the deepest core of their natures–which is explained by the archangels they were meant for. Dean is loyal, and Sam rebels. I watched ‘The Vessel’ a few nights ago and was struck so hard by how Dean announces that he shall be the one who goes back to the past. He will be the one who puts himself in danger, because he’s expendable. He states it as a fact, almost bullish… and then still waits for Sam’s permission before he and ‘Castiel’ actually go. It’s just such a fascinating dynamic, made more so by the change-up of roles.

Again yes to all of this. Dean as "controlling" I take as a misinterpretation (--alternative interpretation, though this is a case that I feel strongly enough about the characterizations that I struggle to see the alternatives) of their communication styles -- and Dean's style in particular is molded, not just by John's militaristic upbringing, but by his relationship with Sam.

Dean can be controlling -- especially with innocents in supernatural-emergency situations, it's vital to give orders forcefully enough that you can expect them to be followed. But with Sam, that's rarely what it's about. Dean gives statements of intent to Sam knowing they're not going to be blindly followed -- since he was a little kid, Sam hasn't obeyed him without question. Moreover, Sam has always known that Dean won't actually act without his say-so. (e.g. "After School Special”, in which at 14 Sam is fully capable of letting Dean know what he wants -- Dean is raging "I'll rip his lungs out" about the bully, but he doesn't actually do anything, lets Sam handle it on his own. And it's not played as a "big brother finally lets his little brother out on his own" moment -- Sam is talking to Dean with confidence that he can handle it himself and that Dean won't intervene. He knows Dean has his back if needed, but he doesn't expect Dean to do anything without his agreement.)

Some of the reason this can be misinterpreted is because of their differences in communication and thinking styles. Sam is the kind of person who likes to go into a discussion or argument informed, fully armed -- he doesn't like to talk about anything until he's had time to think it out, to come to a conclusion and come up with counter-arguments, etc. While as Dean is less of a thinker, more of a doer; he wants to talk about what he's thinking/feeling because verbalizing it out loud is how he understands it himself. (Or by acting it, hence him being way more prone to expressing himself through physical violence than Sam.)

The reason this works is because they both understand this about each other.

A lot of their conversations start with Dean making a statement of opinion phrased as an absolute, and then Sam presents his side, softening that absolute. One of my favorite examples is at the end of 11x08:

SAM Dean, we need to seriously discuss me going to the Cage.

DEAN Okay. Not happening. Good talk. ...Sam, even if these visions are real...

Which on its surface can look like Dean is ending the conversation, shutting Sam down. Except that's not what's happening -- that's clearly not how Dean means it, because he immediately continues the discussion. He's not issuing an order to Sam that he expects to be followed -- he's stating his position, clearly telling Sam where his own opinion stands, giving Sam a starting point for his own argument. Which Dean is counting on getting from Sam, because Sam nearly always does.

This isn't perfect communication; it can lead to misunderstandings, and especially when they were younger, Sam could take it as Dean not respecting or listening to him. But they’ve worked like this for a while, mostly effectively. Dean can speak his mind so bluntly, figure out what he’s feeling, with the confidence that Sam will stand up to it. And in the end, Dean usually comes around, unless he can convince Sam otherwise, such as by coming up with an alternative plan.

The one area that this does completely break down is in regards to Sam himself -- the one time Dean will unilaterally go against Sam's "command" is when Sam's own life is at stake, in which case Dean's loyalty to saving Sam comes above obeying him.

And even then, it causes massive cognitive dissonance for Dean. One of the worst tailspins Dean has is in s7, after going against Sam's decision and killing Amy. Dean believes it's the right thing to do, and the right thing to do for Sam; but disobeying Sam and then lying to him about it makes Dean so guilty he can barely function. While as Sam can lie to Dean about the Book of the Damned for weeks without any obvious signs -- Sam feels guilt incredibly strongly, but not about disobedience, not when he thinks he's doing the right thing. Rebellion in itself isn't a sin for Sam -- as you say, it's one of his defining characteristics.

Then @chiisana-sukima​ had a related but different angle:

I would say that mythically, Sam is a King and Dean is his Minister of War. And I also agree that doesnt invalidate what Jared is saying because I think Sam rightfully doesn’t trust what he’s King of. And that a big part of Sam and Dean’s relationship is that Sam trusts Dean- and uses Dean- to be a check on Sam’s power, and a lot of their conflict is about that issue. Sam only wants and needs a check when he’s wrong, and he’s not always wrong. Sometimes he’s right and Dean is wrong (for example: MoC), so Sam can’t just lie down and do whatever Dean says, but he also can’t trust himself. It’s a hard position to negotiate.

I think this is all true -- and yeah, Sam gets very frustrated when he believes he's right and Dean still isn't coming around. Especially because Dean generally digs his heels in hardest when it has to do with Sam’s life/sanity rather than a moral question, which Sam does not believe is a valid argument (s9 got into this some, but as that argument happens perpendicular to the mostly-unspoken one about Dean violating Sam's bodily autonomy to save his life, it doesn't fully get resolved? And then the Mark temporarily upends their dynamic -- Dean starts giving orders actually expecting to be obeyed, and Sam flips from mission statement: saving the world to saving Dean.)

Dean sort of does double-duty as "Minister of War" and also Sam's bodyguard? Along with comparing it to Maiden Rose (which I would love to hear more about! maybe to discuss in person, as @owehimeverything​ has actually read it but prefers talking to writing meta) -- we've compared it ourselves to the even-less-known manga G-defend, in which the central (m/m) ship is between a commander of a sort of SF SWAT-team garrison and his bodyguard. The bodyguard is out of the main chain-of-command; he reports directly to the commander and obeys him in everything except matters pertaining to the commander's own safety, in which as bodyguard he has the authority to decide whether a given action is too dangerous for the commander to take. It's the source of some conflict (not a lot, because G-defend is one of the fluffiest BL series to exist, but...)

Sam and Dean's relationship doesn't map perfectly to these examples (in part because all the writers have a somewhat different take on their dynamic, so it can be inconsistent between eps; and I also think it's because this kind of power positioning is really common in Japanese fiction but less so in American fiction -- like, it's fundamental enough that we respond to it really strongly, e.g. Kirk & Spock; but especially without a clear command structure like the military to justify it, that kind of relationship can feel weird to Americans -- like there's something wrong about Dean being 'subordinate' to Sam when they don't have actual ranks, that it's an imbalance that must be corrected, rather than a mutually satisfying and stable arrangement.) But I have some hopes that if the story starts exploring “Sam as leader” more intentionally, it might drift more in this direction (even if by accident!)

My own view is that I do think people who say Sam is submissive to Dean are right. He lets Dean control a huge proportion of the relationship imo (for example: Dean has Baby/Sam has no car. For another example: Dean uses physical violence on Sam way more often than Sam does on Dean, and generally Sam just pretty much takes it). But power is complicated, and my view is that the operative word is let, and that they are both aware that Sam is delegating something that is his onto Dean.

On the one hand, I don't totally disagree? But on the other, neither of these specific examples seem to me like Sam ceding control. Sam doesn't own a car, but he has full access to transportation. If Dean isn't chauffeuring him, then Sam usually can take the Impala -- but if he can't, he simply steals another vehicle (or possibly they have extra vehicles in the bunker?) We've seen Sam driving multiple cars whenever he wants to go somewhere but Dean is out/Sam doesn't want Dean to know.  I take Sam's not having a car of his own as him not having much interest in personal possessions (e.g. not personalizing his room in the bunker)(and maybe mixed with a little of feeling "unfaithful" to Baby, given that the only time he ever got a car of his own he was soulless? Sam's relationship with Baby as compared to Dean's is fascinating in its own right...)

And Dean's physical violence is problematic for sure, but I have a hard time seeing it as controlling when it never seems to influence Sam? I can think of three times Dean has punched Sam when both were in their right mind (other than sucker punches or getting into a full fight) (in 2x03, 4x04, and (uggggh) 7x03...season starts are rough times?) and Sam doesn't actually agree to what Dean wants any of those times, or seem more than mildly annoyed by it. (I could go on a long tangent here too, the short version is that I think these moments are the show getting confused about what level of violence it operates at. Sam & Dean are rough-and-tumble sorts such that if we actually saw them hitting each other more -- in anger or in sparring -- it would come across as less significant?)

All that being said, Sam does let Dean take the wheel on smaller things (like choosing music) in part because he doesn't have strong opinions on a lot of it (really, given the scope of the issues Sam often is grappling with, he likely has such constant decision fatigue that he vastly prefers Dean to make the basic choices like where to go for dinner.) And I think a key thing here is the "let" -- Sam could get his way (often with just a word; Dean rarely refuses anything Sam asks for outright) but doesn't feel the need to. So I guess I see it as Sam sometimes agrees to submit to Dean, but I hesitate to call him “submissive”? (Or maybe that’s just a matter of definition?)

Meanwhile, when Sam starts working for the BMOL, he's directing their hunts for two weeks and Dean doesn't see anything amiss in it -- Dean is swinging the machete, but Sam is picking the target; Dean is driving, but Sam is the one telling them where to go. And that's how they both like it, and while it's not perfect (especially if their communication breaks down otherwise -- their biggest issues happen when one of them is keeping a secret and so the other is working with incomplete information), it's largely functional, a mutually satisfying and effective personal and professional partnership.

(And yes, this is one interpretation and there is plenty of room for others! But it's one I see strongly enough that I find it kind of baffling when I come across meta holding that Sam not choosing the music shows that Dean is controlling, or that Dean agreeing to work with the BMOL is Sam overriding Dean's will, when I see both as mutually willing choices, not signs of dysfunctionality.)