#and he betrays him For flint and madi

[naivety]

the thing about silver is that he does not give a shit about other people until flint and then madi convince him to first through the crew and then through a wider liberation movement. they convinced him there was some good to be found in connecting with people and something to fight for, and Then. And Then!!! they ask him to sacrifice this very same newfound connection to these people for the greater good!!! and it Kills him but he does it because more than they've convinced him to love People, they've convinced him to love Them, and that maybe even he, John Silver, who isn't even real btw, can be loved By them, so he does it, but it fractures him and he can't pick up the pieces as fast as they shatter and it all falls apart so so quickly in his hands because it was all built on conditional trust and he Could not commit to it in the end, a house of cards built on. sand.

[hauntingblue]

I don't know what to say... everyone got a happy ending except the people who actually wanted a real revolution and had a cause for it... but it's not like we had much of their opinions on this I guess... also no final lez sex scene... tragic

[ravelqueen]

The reason i love the ending of Black Sails (and why i hate like 80% of the discourse around it incidentally) is that no one is right! No one is wrong! They all make the most logical decisions based on who they are and John most of all.

The way I saw John apologists bending over backwards trying to frame it as an OOC decision because John wouldn't do that he loves Flint! at the same time John haters where feeling vindicated bc see he was a dick who only cares about himself and both sides making me claw at my face because the love was the point.

John would have not betrayed Flint if he didn't love him (and Madi)! Because then he wouldn't have cared if they died. But he does! He does so much in a way that is probably fully new to him and scary and it makes him act impulsively in a way he never did before (because as much as his actions often seem lackadaisical, he's a calculating mofo).

So he loves them.

He also, from the very first moments we meet him, has the biggest survival instinct of anyone. He doesn't care about principle or honour or cause he cares about survival.

He's managed to work for this cause and he's applied himself and i think at the moment of the story the Betrayal happens he's even really on board, but a tiger cannot change his stripes and so John Silver cannot change that his fundamental motivator is survival.

And because he loves Flint he wants him to survive more than he wants the cause to win only there he comes into conflict with the fact that Flint's main motivator is the Cause. He and Madi are creatures of principle of "The Cause Is The Cause Because It Is Worth Dying For".

So the confrontation in the forest is exactly this: Flint following his main motivator of the Cause before anything, because that is what he lives for and John just needing him to live, because you can't care about anything when you're dead.

And so it's tragic and heart wrenching because if John hadn't learned to love so well, so deeply, so earnestly throughout the story he would have let Flint go and continue to fight, but he did and he does so and he couldn't.

[queerofthedagger]

slowly parsing through all my feelings and thoughts about the ending and it's like. silver can accuse flint of waging his war out of rage and because he has nothing to lose, but that doesn't necessarily make it true. in fact it's actually so wild how flint, ultimately, is one of the only characters who keeps hold up such an unflinching, stubborn, white-knuckled hope. that there can be a better world and that it is worth fighting for. it's the one thing, no matter how much silver has become (like) him that he never understood, neither from flint nor from madi, who is one if not the only other character this applies to as well, although it's obviously different for her.

and then just. how flint got it from thomas and miranda, the two people silver keeps comparing himself to while not getting that yes, their loss made flint the way he is, but their love and loving them made him who he is just as much. "I don't think he would want me to." and silver doesn't get it. he loves them both but he entirely fails to understand them. at his core he is still selfish, it just means that now, it manifests in not wanting to lose them - madi especially - to this war, and so he will betray her/them if that means he doesn't have to see her/them dead (it's obviously a bit more complicated with flint, but even if he did kill him, he would probably twist it in his head as a kind of 'saving,' babygirl be delustional enough). he got so much from flint, except for the most important part, the one thing that kept flint afloat for all this time. something something hope is an action, it's bruised knuckles and bared teeth and keeping going despite despite despite. god.

[sparrowsfallingfromthesky]

just a fun (🫠) little detail I just latched onto is how this curly design chandelier thing is on a table beside Silver in this scene where he's talking to Max and learns about the Oglethorpe plantation thus planting a seed of an idea of how he might go about saving/betraying Flint (and Madi by extension)

and then there's this similar fixture beside him (but elevated) in this scene where he's talking to Billy and increasingly having doubts

and then there's this (a little less spirally maybe but similar and. pointing at Flint.) when things are really falling apart

and THEN. there's this shirt of Madi's that she wears in the scenes where she has to process what he's done

[hybbat]

I feel like there's something to be examined about Black Sail's men and how comfortable the women are around each of them. The setting is not kind to women implicitely and explicitely, such as the very gendered hatred the pirates direct at Eleanor or the change in taunts Anne gets compared to the rest of the crew.

I think it also speaks to Eleanor's character of how she always needs enemies and struggles that she picks Vane and Rogers as her lovers, the two men in the main cast that all the women in the show are least comfortable around and who are least sympathetic to them. There's probably also something there about her attempts to take up a man's role in their society and her relationship to Max in the first season, paying for Max, betraying her, and being blamed for the violence enacted on her.

Flint gets along with women in a very distant way, he has a very fatherly sorta friendship with Eleanor, and him and Madi are comrades. He is in a relationship with Miranda but even when they're together it's more like friends who share a mutual love for Thomas and his ideals. Either way they're comfortable around him and he's never quite fully enemies with any of them even when on opposing sides. If women like Eleanor feel the need to puff up their chest around him it's only because he has that effect on everyone. But it is interesting that all the men fear him and feel he doesn't truly care about them and the women never quite do.

And then there's Jack "I support women's wrongs" Rackham. One of the girls. A queerness magnet. The fact that he is straight is one of life's greatest enigmas. Feminist icon, really.

[reneewalkersknives]

about your tags, i havent watched black sails but im nosy, how does flint end up living?

Hi, that’s a loaded question as whether he DOES actually live is up for debate. Basically a famously unreliable narrator, storyteller and liar, John Silver tells a “nice” story abt how he betrayed him but didn’t kill him and in fact reunited him with his “dead” lover in an English prison/labour camp. Problem with this happy ending is that flint’s character (and a lot of the story as a whole really) is centered around fighting against English rule. Flint is a radical who dedicated his life to harming and overthrowing the empire/ colonial rule, as he was branded a “monster” and betrayed by his father figure (an English navy man) for being gay and in a relationship with his “dead” lover.

He was exiled for that crime which then led to him becoming a pirate to seek revenge which eventually leads to him becoming a radical figure and connecting with other radicals. The last we’re 100% sure we see of flint is Silver betraying him and pointing a gun at him. Silver tells Madi,the woman he loves and another radical leader whom he betrayed that flint got a happy ending at the prison camp and his lover (who has been firmly dead since years before the show even took started) was miraculously alive.

Personally I like to believe that Silver just killed Flint (as fucked up as it sounds, I know) bc I believe flint living out the rest of his life betrayed, trapped under English rule and punishment is a much bigger tragedy than his death would be and I think flint would be happier to be dead than alive in a labour camp. It sounds bad I know but when u watch the show he is very passionate in his hatred for England, his refusal to apologise or be pardoned by them, his determination to overthrow them and get revenge and I don’t think even getting his dead lover back could ever change that. (Probably the Irish in me speaking too lol)

Anyways one of the biggest themes of the show is storytelling, lying and performing to create certain narratives and mythos. In the final episode of show one of the main characters (whom is obsessed w creating his own legacy) states “a story is true, a story is untrue, as time extends it matters less and less. The stories we want to believe, those are the ones that survive” which is basically confirmation that both interpretations of flint’s ending are valid and it allows you to choose your personal favourite:)

Sorry this was so long winded lol I just have a LOT of black sails thoughts

[toseehowthestoryends]

We see a lot of meta about what Silver thought in the ending of Black Sails, but not nearly as much about how James Flint reacted to that betrayal.

The ending is presented to the audience with Silver's narration, but it tells us a lot.

He disbelieved me. He continued to resist. And corralling him took great effort.

Eventually, Silver tells us that Flint's resistance diminished. He doesn't tell us what "corralling him" required (though I think we can imagine it required either shooting him non-fatally or physically subduing him via use of violence), just that he doesn't know why. He also says "Perhaps he'd finally reached the limits of his physical ability to fight," which certainly indicates something must have been done to stop Flint from fighting Silver and his men.

So. So far, we have the man who Flint trusted above all - and who he kept his promise to save Madi to AND THEN shot Dooley to protect - betraying. First, in the forest, Silver reveals that he's betraying Flint (and Madi) to end the war. And secondly, he's had his men subdue him in some way that is implied to include great violence.

And then we have the fact that Silver has known Thomas was at that plantation for...how long? Months, presumably. And he said nothing. Put aside the fact that Silver's actions reunite James with Thomas. That's a separate action that does not erase the betrayal.

We see throughout the series that James Flint does not trust easily. Yet in season 3, he consciously lets his walls down and lets Silver in. Throughout seasons 3/4, they are a team and Flint trusts Silver. And when everything goes to hell and Madi is taken, he promises he will get her back and he does. They take down Woodes Rogers. They win a major battle that frees Nassau.

And then his friend, his ally, his partner, tells him that not only is he betraying the war, but he is also throwing James Flint into prison (no matter how kind, it's a prison), and he has known Thomas Hamilton is alive for months, in prison, and he has not not shared this.

Am I too late to the fandom discourse? Did people dive into this screaming when the show first came out? Because I cannot get over the look of heartbreak on Flint's face during the there be dragons speech because he knows that even if Thomas is alive - and at this point for him that's a big if - he had finally dared trust someone, truly trust someone, and just had that trust savaged in the worst way. Did Silver have decent reasons? In Silver's mind, for sure. But Flint? James McGraw? Even if you discount the ending the war, betraying the cause Flint led, you can't discount Silver knowing about Thomas and saying nothing.

(And I can't discount the war. Maybe my background mirrors Flint's too much; maybe I'm too intimately acquainted with the concept of war and fighting and maybe I've led people for too long and feel that responsibility and would not thank someone who "relieved" me of it without my consent or that of those I lead. But Flint was fighting for freedom for so many. His rage had morphed into something greater, and that cause was no longer about nothing left to lose but everything to gain, and that revolution could have been everything for a part of the world that had nothing.)

[why-do-i-like-the-bad-guys]

I just thought of a great parallel between Flint and Rogers. Both keep losing people they love or work with. Like Silver said to Flint how it was almost a pattern.

Flint’s started out with losing Hamilton — Rogers started out losing his brother (Ironically both these men are named Thomas)

- Flint ended up brutally killing the people who caused Thomas’ death as did Rogers to the entire ship that killed his brother, Thomas.

Flint loses Billy — Roger’s loses Captain Hornigold

-both were seen as replaceable

Flint loses Gates — Rogers loses Captain Chamberlain

-Flint lost his crew for a bit because of this and Rogers lost a lot of his soldiers.

Flint loses Miranda — Rogers loses Eleanor

-both of these losses were because of attempts of working with the enemy who were responsible for losing their loved ones in the beginning.

-both of these women also tried to get their men to leave the island behind and start a new life

Flint cuts ties with Billy — Rogers cuts ties with his wife, Sarah Whetstone.

-both of these had a great impact on the rate of their success because each have a following of people behind them.

(Much like Thomas Hamilton, Sarah came from a very influential family. I find it funny how both Flint and Rogers found themselves in a relationship with such people)

These men really mirror each other more than just Rogers being what Flint once was. They are almost an echo of each other, doomed to the same narrative no matter what side they’re on. Flint was famous for what people knew about him and his vicious nature while he hid his true motives and feelings, which ended up later being found out in the end and ultimately became his end. Rogers was famous for everything but his secret vicious side, which ended up being found out in the end and became his end as well.

Back to the main point: whoever gets close to these two men, ends up dead, betraying them, or both.

In the end Eleanor’s betrayal of Rogers with the cache was similar to Silver’s betrayal of Flint. Eleanor was pregnant and wanted this to end so they could start their family, dooming herself, her unborn chikd and Rogers in the process. Silver had Madi and couldn’t stand the thought of losing her so he betrayed Flint, also dooming himself, Flint and Madi in the process.

Both men were repeatedly told in the beginning that these people they let in couldn’t be trusted and that they would always do what was in their best interest in the end. But I think Flint saw a bit of Thomas in Silver and Rogers saw a bit of his brother in Eleanor. (Which is for a whole different post)

[outrageouslymoonpie]

Alright.

I have finally finished black sails. Started it in April (I know), watched one episode randomly in November (got traumatized by Randall's leg) and decided to finally watch it (after seeing a post about love and monsters) a couple of weeks ago.

Safe to say that I've got an unhealthy obsession with pirates and stories about the sea that traces back when I was like four and not so able to draw, because while watching the series i put together a bibliography of medias that is quite long.

Is this related to what I think of the series? Maybe. Maybe it puts in perspective the obsession it rekindled.

Anyway. Black sails.

Beware, there'll be spoilers sprinkled down here.

I went in totally blind, besides Flint's queerness. I'm a simple woman, i love me a historical drama about pirates with a queer protagonist.

Flint's queerness - as I read somewhere here on Tumblr - is something fundamental in his development as a character, but also as a pirate. And with him being the protagonist of the story, I also thinks it drives a lot of the actual narrative of the series. Because of him being queer, of him being in love with another man, he became a pirate. He decided to retrieve that damn treasure.

So it's a series about a queer man, but not about the homophobia he experienced or experience. The show let us imagine, let us wonder why he decided to become a pirate.

But it lets us know that Flint loved a man.

You know, Flint loves a lot. I think he's not able not to. He cares, and hurts, but ultimately he loves a lot. We see it with basically every character he interacts with (besides poor billy, which is actually really funny to me.) He loves Miranda, respects Eleanor and Vane, loves deeply and unhealthily Silver and Madi.

Something I noticed is how much love there is, throughout the whole series. It's not just about the relationships between the characters (which are vital), but also about the kind of life they're living, about the love they have for Nassau. It's the true heart of the story. The characters do things out of love.

Flint manipulates the narrative in order to obtain his gold, yes, but he also does that in order to protect and save and help those who love. England betrayed him, so he became a pirate. Miranda - his tether to the memory of Thomas - got killed because of his love for her, because of her love for him, because of their hope. Silver and Madi, oh god. In the last season that particular relationship become something Shakespearian in its tragedy, in its inherent imbalance. But it's so full of love. In their scheming, in Flint's decision to help silver save Madi, in Madi's pain at the very end of the season, in silver's smile.

(I'll elaborate more in another post, but oh boy those three broke my heart in many many pieces)

And then there's the part of the story where every one of them is a monster of some kind. In the very last episode flint's tells silver how much every one of them is a monster in someone's story and that how they tell children to be scared of the darkness, because in the darkness live the monsters. And that is the second big theme of black sails. Being a monster. Being a pirate is something awful in the eyes of the British empire, but every character in this show is a monster of some kind. Flint, queer and pirate and scheming and wrathful. Silver, manipulator, scheming and later disabled. Vane, an ex slave turned pirate. Eleanor, woman, queer and super smart. I can go on, but I thing you got the gist. (Love is also monstrous)

And the very last thing in this very long ramble: the power of stories. Throughout the show we see characters hinting about being part of a story, part of something big, about having a "reputation to maintain", a "name to live in". It's almost like they know they're fictional. I felt the power of the stories: they can shape everything. Our present, our future, our past. We can do everything with a story. And my favourite thing was Silver. John Silver, the Long John Silver, starts his story with a lie. The character who's most shaped by the damned narrative is the one who refuses till the very last to tell us his story. I don't know him. I have no idea where he came from, but I saw him shape himself in a pirate, a cook, a quartiermaster, a leader and ultimately a legend. He goes around saying lies, manipulating, telling Flint I have no story to tell I think you know everything that's to known about me.

To end this too long of a ramble: black sails changed something fundamental in the way I see pirates and in the way I experience stories and in the way I shape my very own narrative. It also broke my heart, gave me brainworms and added eight books to my tbr. I don't regret nothing, but if you have some fic rec please give it to me. I miss them.

[blacksailspolls]

🏴‍☠️🔱 BLACK SAILS EPISODE BRACKET

ROUND 2

SUMMARY

[LEFT] XV. (2.07) — The pirates prepare to take a vote on whether Flint or Hornigold should become captain, causing Flint's plans to take a halt. Billy secretly meets with Dufresne and declares his plan to gather at least ten men that oppose Flint, to capture him and surrender him to the British, so that they may all receive full pardons for their piracy. Two scouts tasked with watching the Urca gold return to report that the Spanish crew died from a tropical disease, leaving the gold unprotected. John, intercepting them, convinces them to tell Flint that the gold is now gone so that John can organize a secret expedition with Max to gather it without any issues or opposition. As part of the plan for pardons for Flint and Miranda, Eleanor betrays Vane by helping Abigail to escape.

[RIGHT] XXXVI. (4.08) — Jack and Max get ready to depart Philadelphia and return to Nassau. Jack contemplates going through with a costly plan that is the only way he believes Nassau will become economic again. Flint and Silver also return to Nassau to retrieve Madi, but argue about which of their plans is the best. Rogers puts his own plan into action as they come for Madi. Max speaks to Eleanor's grandmother Marion Guthrie about Mrs Guthrie's plan for Nassau.

[hauntingblue]

Happy memory flashbacks we are so over....

[butcharyastark]

no the thing that's getting me on my black sails rewatch (lies, a lot of things are getting me on my black sails rewatch) is the whole convo w madi and silver about how ppl like silver tempering someone dark like flint need a tether to hold them back from getting too far into the other's darkness, to keep them grounded. and then madi is that to silver. she is. she is another person to keep him whole when he's never loved anyone else properly before, she's the counterpoint to his life so that his relationships are not defined by flint, she's the equilibrium which makes this trio partnership WORK. it doesn't seem a coincidence to me that the INSTANT, the same season, that we see silvermadi confirmed is when silver and flint begin drifting. it's no surprise that given a choice between madi and flint that silver instantly chooses madi and has to be persuaded by flint into calming down, because flint is not and never will be a tether, he cannot temper anyone, that's not his role here. all he can do to comfort is relate by dragging someone else down to the same level.

and we've seen that, we seen how flint only stops treating silver like a tool to be used and discarded and domineered the instant silver can present himself as someone to respect--as someone who can go equally low. that's why silver's reverse psychology betrayal confession works, because it serves a double purpose to both prove to flint that silver is not just a tool, but a partner that can revel in darkness with him if he wants (and boy does he drag silver down to that) and someone who is now completely tied to this crew and incapable of trying to betray or run away again (and boy if that isn't concerning as fuck.)

madi tethers and silver tempers and both of these are qualities capable of showing love and care for another person truly in a way flint can't connect to anymore, especially not as captain flint, which is why they only feed each other in a relationship instead of taking or needing someone else to balance them.

and that's why the ending is so tragic but hopeful--silver had lost too much of himself in flint's influence, in that darkness, (in a time when he'd lost his tether) and ended up turning that kinda mindset back on madi. but he wasn't consumed by it. and however you interpret flint's ending, he's no longer in their lives and influencing silver like that. madi's capable of forgiving silver because silver is capable of not being the person flint tried to make him anymore.

[alwaysbemybae]

The Final Breach in Black Sails

We spend a lot of emotional energy on the breach between Silver and Flint. But after Billy has put into action his plan to splinter Silver and Flint, there is one final partnership that must be sundered for the full tragedy to unfold: Flint and Madi. 

In 4x10, Silver rescues Madi (which Flint directs him to do) and they walk through the ship. Madi continues to wear a worried expression, even as she sees redcoats being led away in chains. It is only when they more fully emerge into the light that Madi sees Flint and her facial expression relaxes. When Flint looks back at her, her smile cracks open, her eyes brighten, and her breathing heaves as in a sob of relief.  Silver observes Flint's effect on Madi and he glares and seethes. 

In her “Multitudes” speech to Woodes Rogers, Madi says, “Flint’s war, my war….it will not be bargained away….”

In his speech to Flint on Skeleton Island, Silver says, “This war, your war, her war….Julius will be no obstacle to it. As long as you and she stand for it.” 

Silver thinks that he must prevent a war—not recognizing that there already is a war on Madi’s people—and that the only way to prevent this war is to separate Flint and Madi. Silver not only betrayed Flint; he not only betrayed Madi. He betrayed them both precisely by separating them from each other. That shattered partnership is the one that I mourn.   

[maremote]

Black Sails Monologuolympics BR4.1: SILVER'S MONOLOGUES: ROUND 1 🥈

11/12: 207 vs 405

Silver, to Max, in 207: "Trust is a funny thing. When pledged my support to Captain Flint, believed the trust between us to be of the strongest kind. We both desperately wanted the same thing. And that makes for good partners. But over the past few days, it's become clear to me that the prize we both wanted is becoming less a prize to him and more an obstacle. You know what I'm talking about, don't you? The Urca gold. I have feared for days that Flint might not want that gold to ever be found, that it would interfere with plans he held more important than gold, more important than wealth. And have felt the ground rushing towards us ever since. And my greatest fear has been that in the moment he decided to end the hunt for the Urca gold, the moment he decided it was in his interest to betray my trust... that he would find a way to do so by deception, by force, by who the fuck knows how. But whatI do know is that he would ask my help to make it happen. And by that point, the gold would be as good as gone. Any resistance offered would be futile and would be just another tool that he'd used and then promptly discarded. [...] A few hours ago, a launch arrived. Two of our men who were scouting the Urca gold were returning to the island against their instructions. You see, they had been told very clearly by Captain Flint to remain with the Urca until we arrived to help us prepare our assault on the Spanish beach. So the moment saw them approaching, my first thought was that the only reason they'd be returning early was if the gold was no longer there. And thought, "My God... did Flint do this? Through some kind of luck or guile or fucking sorcery, did he reach across an ocean and make $5 million in gold vanish?"

VS

Silver, to Hands, in 405: "Sooner or later, that cache is going to arrive, and there'll be no more delaying. I'm committed to Flint. I'm committed to Madi. Yet the road they intend to travel is one l'm losing the ability to understand. know what Billy's done... what should be unforgivable... and yet till so very recently, there's no one in the world called a closer friend. The more he talks, the more remember why. To turn on him now, to have him killed... which is what it would take to side with Flint... seems like something.. don't know have it in me to do."

BRACKET FOUR ROUND ONE // BRACKET FOUR // ALL POLLS

[the-pyrate-lords]

Black Sails / Treasure Island Middleloge

So. between Black Sails and Treasure Island, Flint's crew is disbanded, Silver gets a parrot, Billy gets off the island, Flint dies at Savannah, his last words being 'Darby MacGraw, Fetch aft the rum' and Ben Gunn, with knowlege of these, last words, is marooned again. Here are my headcanons

Silver visits Flint and gives him a parrot as a gift, he is reunited with Thomas and is adjusting, so, no hard feelings, he names the bird 'Captain Flint' in mockery.

Silver and Madi open a bar 'The Spyglass' and take up smuggling on the British coast. (in TI Flints old crew use a lugger to ransack the Benbow Inn and escape Squire Trelawny's men. lugger's were popular smuggling craft and it seems a logical step. for a retired pirate with an Inn)

At Some point, Billy and Ben Gunn make it off Skeleton Island

Billy bargains or threatens Flint to aquire the map, Flint calls for "Darby McGraw" to fetch aft the rum to finish the business. The Map in the book even has a notation that "Given above JF to Billy Bones mate on the Walrus" while Billy's journal mentions that "At Savannah Flint Got it."

Billy Also possibly Kills Flint after the deal is complete as revenge

Darby McGraw is either some kid Flint adopted giving him his real name, or an alias he gave Thomas, who took Flints real name in marriage, McGraw

Silver returns to Skeleton Island to try and track down Flint's treasure at Ben Gunn's urging but maroons him upon losing patience. Its possible these events are shortly after the series close and Silver becomes a Pirate Captain.

Rackham (still at large) operates out of Skeleton Island, with Max and Featherstone in charge of Nassau, and piracy being done on the Sly, hard currency is stashed on the island by his crew, (in the Book there is a LOT of coinage)

Billy escapes Silver's wrath and hides out at the Benbow Inn, with Silver finding out too late about the deal and Flint's murder. He is possibly tricked, and then betrayed by Billy