#and don’t talk to me about korra and it’s arcs

[zaddyazula]

i’m a pretty hardcore zuko redemption arc stan, but my time on tumblr and rewatching the show has really shown me a lot of problems with it.

i know this is a pretty big topic on atla tumblr, so i thought why don’t i shove my opinion in everyone else’s face :).

first of all, my belief of a redemption arc is when somebody redeems themself by changing their actions and ideologies. zuko does a lot for the whole actions part of it, but ultimately nothing to challenge the xenophobic, imperialistic ideology that he has been brought up to believe, as well as the belief that the fire nation royals are better than anyone else.

sure, zuko says he lost himself a lot, but he never mentions anything about his previous beliefs, which can be seen regularly through the first two seasons, particularly season 1. constantly calling katara a peasant; calling others filth: the list goes on and on for all the occasions he has displayed some sort of belief of superiority towards others.

yes, he freed appa; yes, he went to rescue hakoda and suki; yes, he went with katara to get revenge on yon rha - it doesn’t mean anything if nothing has changed in his mind.

he can help them all he wants, but if he still has the ideology of a racist, xenophobic and classist prince, what is the difference between banished zuko and fire lord zuko?

[side note: obviously, by the end of the show, zuko doesn’t share the beliefs that his father and sister held, but you can see him demonstrate them very clearly in some of his flashbacks and a majority of season 1.]

take this horrific analogy: if someone you hate (and i mean absolutely fucking despise) goes out of their way to help you and try to reconcile with you, and you do so but still hate them with your entire fucking soul and nothing you thought about them has changed - then what is even the point of reconciling? if your ideologies have not changed, in my book, it doesn’t matter what you do, if you save their life, whatever other bullshit you could do for them, then you can’t redeem yourself.

imagine being in some sick blood feud, but you guys decide not to fight anymore, what fucking progression is there if one of you then goes: “by the way, i really fucking hate you. i also killed your entire family. :)” there’s none. nothing changes except for the fact one person’s entire family is dead.

an example of a good redemption arc (it’s literally in the name of the game) is one of my all time favourite character’s from one of my all time favourite pieces of fiction: (high honour) arthur morgan from red dead redemption 2.

to summarise (minor spoilers): arthur is in a (cowboy!!!) gang in 1899, who are constantly running from the law. arthur ends up contracting tuberculosis from a man he kills, which leads him onto his path of redemption. he (if the player chooses to go high honour) begins to help people and reflects on his actions. not only does arthur change his actions, but he actually changes ideologies. he stops believing that he can throw his life away, and that there is no point in trying to do anything good when he’s already done so many bad things. arthur goes through a complete (!!!) metamorphosis, actually feeling compassion for people and wanting to save them from mr. i have a plan (the leader of the gang).

arthur is an absolutely incredible example of a redemption arc: it’s literally the point of the game (unless you’re a low honour player. i don’t know how you can do that. you’re superhumans). he changes his actions, his relationships and his ideologies with the help of people he meets along the way.

the same can mostly be said for zuko, and i’m not saying zuko hadn’t changed his ideology by the series finale, my issue is more the fact that it’s never addressed. once. not even a single time (i finished watching the show again today, may have bawled my eyes out) is anything about what he was taught to believe mentioned, let alone worked on.

the belief that the fire nation royals are superior is shown through azula pretty much any time we see her, and ozai a majority of his onscreen appearances.

hell, even the belief that the fire nation is superior to the other nations is shown in the s3 episode where aang goes to the fire nation school. throughout the show, we are constantly shown that the fire nation believe they are better than everyone else, but not once is zuko challenged for it, even by little miss zuko hater, katara. not once is anyone challenged for it, except for if you count the whole “the air nomads never had an army” from aang, but for me, that doesn’t really count.

don’t get me wrong, zuko is my favourite character in the show, if not one of my favourite characters ever, but this whole ‘the best ever redemption arc’ bullshit needs to stop. yes, it’s a good redemption arc, but it lacks the awareness that comes with realising that you need to repent for not only your actions, but your beliefs. redemption arcs like arthur morgan’s show the progression of the character; obviously there’s a difference between being the main character of an 100gb game and being one of the main characters in a kid’s show, but they still managed to get a redemption arc in for him. what they didn’t manage, however, was challenging zuko’s past beliefs.

you cannot become a better person by ignoring the ideals that shaped you to be that horrible person.

you must challenge them. you must face them.

so, in my opinion, despite how much i love it, despite how much i want to crown it the best redemption arc of all time, i just can’t. until zuko challenges his ideals ON SCREEN (which’ll be never), then i can’t give it the honour (i’m so funny).

don’t even get me started on the redemption arc azula should’ve had, because that’s even more bullshit to deal with.

damn this took ages to write.

[dreamchasernina]

Am I the only one worried about adult gaang movie? I know Bryke are the ones working on it, but honestly…I don’t have much faith in them.

Look, Avatar is like this sacred prefect thing to me, and I cannot handle a thought of something ruining this perfect story and characters. It ended so perfectly, but to be able to write another story with these characters they’re gonna have to create problems, right?

Like for instance, how are they going to create a villain that will be an actual threat to Aang (especially Aang in the avatar state), without breaking the rules of the world they built? They broke those rules over and over again in Korra to one up a previous villain.

Another conern is, are they going to ruin the relationships? Writers don’t like seeing the characters in happy relationships, case and point, Korra and Mako. I don’t really care about them, I just found it wierd spending the whole first season building up their relationship just to break them up in the second season. It’s a problem with a lot of writers, they’d rather break a couple up and get them back together again by the end, than let them be in a happy and healthy relationships. Same said for the friendships. I’m scared to discover the movie starts with “I haven’t talked to Zuko in years because A B C happened”.

Another thing, is there going to be an arc for every single character? If so, how are they going to accomplish that in 2 hours? I love love love how every single character in ATLA gets an amazing personal arc, and well, if they’re going to to the same in the movie, how will that work? Or will some of the characters get a backseat and become not as significant. Again, I have to bring up an example from LoK. You can’t say Mako and Bolin’s parts in the last seasons were as important as the rest of the characters’. Again, I personally don’t care about those characters, so I don’t have a problem with it, but the balance between the characters in ATLA is what makes it superior to LoK, so I’m sure if they decide to make Sokka’s (for example) journey less significant than others’, it would make a lot of people angry.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. Of course I want to see more content from the Avatar universe, especially the gaang, but I’m just scarred from LoK and not sure I can handle them ruining characters even more.

Can we just have 2 hours of the gaang on vacation on ember island just getting in all kinds of shenanigans?

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

IG this might be the wrong blog to ask (do you have a main?) but what are some things you hate about the show/fandom that don’t relate to Zutara? Is “The Great Divide” really that bad? The comics? The Legend of Korra?

Okay, let's split these in categories

What I dislike about the original show

How we never really see much about the cultures of the Air Nomads and Water Tribes, and that the planned episode about Aang's parents was scrapped.

How Ty Lee basically has no arc and just went from "Hates being part of a matched set" to "Happily part of a matched set."

How Toph didn't really get any resolution with her parents, be it a reconciliation or a decision to cut contact like Zuko did with Ozai.

How the Lion Turtle wasnot introduced much earlier and instead used a Deux Ex Machina. We all know Aang won't kill Ozai, guys, you don't have to pretent, just let us know there's something Aang can to do avoid it and go revealing stuff about energybending little by little, then give us the final piece of the puzzle in the finale.

How the White Lotus was clearly a retcon that stopped making any sense after season two and that they're actually pretty fucking useless when you think about it.

How the show basically forgot that Iroh was very much a villain in season one, and for most of his life, therefore he has no right to call Azula crazy and dismiss her as a lost cause.

How Iroh says it wouldn't be right for him to kill Ozai, even if he could, because history would just see it as just a brother killing another brother for power, then IMMEDIATELY sending his 16-year-old nephew to a battle to the death with his 14-year-old niece - all while the White Lotus FINALLY decides to do SOMETHING and frees Ba Sing Se...

...Which looks horrible for Iroh when we think "Oh shit, last time he tried to capture it because he thought it was his destiny, his son died, and now he sent his nephew to a battle in which nearly dies and gets another scar while he's off trying to free that same city because of destiny again." (Seriously, when it comes to Ba Sing Se, don't let Iroh do ANYTHING other run a tea-shop in it. Somehow it always shows the ugly side of his personality).

How "Sokka's Master" is really an episode that did not need to exist at all because while Sokka had always wanted to be a warrior, he never really expressed any insecurity about being a non-bender and was only ever teased about it once. It just felt like an obligatory "The dude with no powers is important too!" episode and not a natural stepping stone of the narrative.

As for "The Great Divide" it is a pretty boring episode... but it's not as bad as people say. I don't think the original Avatar had any episodes in which nothing is important or at least creative and/or cool. I like the music in it, the world-building is kind of neat, the theme of helping refugees is pretty coherent with a show about war, and the animation changes when we are told the versions of the story on what these people hate each other was pretty cool.

What I dislike about the novelizations of the show

While some of the attempts of exploring how characters felt in some scenes really works and provides some interesting interpretations, others just fall completely flat and feel a bit OOC.

What I dislike about The Lost Adventures comics

That ridiculous story with Katara being way too pushy with Aang's training for no reason and refusing to communicate with him when he wants to talk about the kiss on the day of the invasion. She would never treat him like this.

What I dislike about the Azula In The Spirit Temple comic

The bits that remind me "Oh yeah, that's supposed to be set in the same universe of the Yang comics." Other than that, it is a pretty good stand-alone story and it allowed Azula to be turned into a deeply offensive stereotype about the mentally ill.

What I dislike about (most of) the comics and Korra

Nearly everything. Seriously, I don't know how the reception to these were mostly mixed instead of on the same level of hatred the fandom has to the Shyaman movie. The character assassination and lack of understanding of what made the original story good is EXACTLY the same, yet because it had Bryke's approval/involvement people expect me to take it as canon and it's NOT gonna happen.

What I dislike about the Netflix version

It exists. I'm sick of all the bullshit, souless remakes/reboots that are clearly just crash-grabs for companies that completely forgot they can make money AND art at the same time. I especially hate the trend of beautiful 2D animation being replaced with cheap cosplays, ugly CGI and poor lighting to pretend it is the "dark, mature version of the story"

What I dislike about the fandom itself

To make a really, really, REALLY long list very short and not really rank them 'cause it'd take forever:

1 - The blatant ableism towards Toph and Azula.

2 - The constant delusion about Avatar being "just like Game Of Thrones" and "not a kid's show."

3 - The people still insisting that the Netflix version, Korra, and the comics are good or "not that bad."

4 - The weird way some people act like Zuko was the first character to ever get a redemption arc and that everyone who does it now is taking inspiration from it.

5 - The refusal to accept that uncle Iroh was never perfect, both due to oversight of the writers AND deliberate narrative choices.

6 - The people that act like the show was trash just because of a few bad choices.

7 - The people that act like the show is perfect.

8 - The people that act like Bryke's interpretations are the only ones that matter.

9 - The inability to not harrass others for not agreeing with them.

10 - The weird, stupid people that act like Sozin and Azulon were not that bad and not just as power-hungry, racist and cruel as Ozai.

11 - The people that don't understand how Aang killing Ozai would be character assassination AND a deep betrayal of the themes and morals of the story.

12 - The people that keep losing their shit if you want a character like Azula to have a redemption arc because it'd "make Zuko's less especial" (it wouldn't, and I know that because HE WASN'T THE ONLY CHARACTER TO GET REDEEMED IN THE STORY, hell, he wasn't even the first).

13 - The downright offensive and disgusting need the fandom feels of sweeping Zuko's mistakes under the rug, no matter how bad they are, because they think he needs to be perfect otherwise he was not truly a victim of abuse.

14 - The way people just full on make shit up to support their headcanons, ships and theories.

15 - The blatant racism.

[amaros-system]

Prison of Plastic Thoughts

So, finished Prison of Plastic. Here are my spoilery thoughts: - I think I understand better why this show is called Epithet Erased. A very core theme is the pain that these powers cause, mainly to the inscribed themselves. - I really like this decision. I was expecting this to go in the direction of "oh no Inscribed hurt Mundies" like so many stories do. This is really tired, and always rubs me the wrong way because of how they are resolved. The notion of somebody's abilities being fundamental to who they are feels very ableist (looking at you, Legend of Korra). Being blinded would change my life, but it wouldn't make me any less. - On that note, I hope we get to see a character actually have their epithet taken away and to not get it back later in the same arc. I wanna see somebody grapple with what not having it means, and grow beyond their epithet. - The thing that unites all of the antagonists, is how they view powers. Mera's epithet causes chronic pain, Zora's sucks the joy out of life, Lori possibly accidentally caused the death of her mother with it. For these characters epithets are disabilities. This has a ton of narrative potential, and I'm immensely curious to see where Jello goes with this. - When you embrace that both Mundies and Inscribed can be the metaphorical representation of disabled people, EE is actually a very compelling disability analogy. Not sure if that's intentional, but I don't care! - Further on the EE-as-disability-analogy, I think this makes Molly the perfect protagonist. The first thing we see Molly use her epithet for is prevent overstimulation. While for other characters their powers are just nice boons or even active hindrances, Molly is the only one that relies on her Epithet. She runs counter to Bliss Ocean's ideals, in an interesting way. - Moving away from disability now! - Lori is so hatable, but also so lovable. Seeing her actually play along with Molly was so such an amazing moment, very sad to see how it ended. - Also, very conflicted on shipping Lori and Gio. They have such chemistry, but also Lori absolutely does not deserve him. I need her to finish her arc so I can see this ship god damn it. - Rick is the best. I envy his energy. - I totally thought Ricks friends in Ocean Country were killed for helping a slave escape for a sec. - Naven has such twist villain energy. Same vibes as Ralsei. The way he talks to Lori and the fact he has Yoomtah as a driver are all very sus. - I really want to see what Trixie’s epithet is, assuming they have one. I’m expecting something super obscure. There’s also that crow, and the possible Songstress connection I’ve seen some people theorize about. - Giovanni kidnapping Molly is so on-brand. He was really great this arc in general, really. Didn’t have a lot of big, bombastic moments, but I actually liked that. Get to see more chill Giovanni. AKA, what makes him so cool.

[devildogdemon]

Makorra Week 2023: Day 5 – Buried Feelings

Hunger hurts, but starving works When it costs too much to love.

“I wanted — I hoped — I’d get another chance,” he admits.

“I know.”

“I still love her, Bo.”

“I know.”

“It’s stupid.”

“No, it’s not.” Bolin releases him, but keeps a hand on his shoulder. “That’s the thing about you, bro — when you love someone, you devote everything to them. That doesn’t just go away when the other person moves on. It’s not stupid to still have feelings. Although…you do need to be better about expressing them.”

He winces, inadvertently reminded that he lost his chance to do so.

“I was going to tell Korra.”

Bolin blinks in surprise. “When?”

“At the wedding. We talked, she thanked me for taking down the Colossus, and I almost said it.” Dammit, I should’ve just said it.

Bolin’s expression turns sympathetic. “Why didn’t you?”

He groans in frustration. “I don’t know. I guess I thought it was too soon, and I didn’t want to rock the boat after everything we’d just been through. I thought there’d be a better time.”

“I’m not sure there ever is a right time for something like this.”

He laughs without humour. “Well, now is definitely not the right time. She’s happy with Asami. I’m not gonna ruin that by saying anything.

——

An absolutely FLOORING commission I am beyond honored to share, from the art MASTER, @alduade-art. Thank you so much for your devotion and deliverance of such a masterpiece! 

This scene and dialogue is from Chapter 3 of another one of my favorite Makorra fics: Moments in Lightning by Peonywinx. I cannot recommend this fic enough if you are a Mako stan and long for a story where he gets an arc worth his caliber. The whump is so, so overpowering in all the right ways. And this scene in particular...UGHHH my boy why must you be so noble to your own detriment!?! Thank you so much again, Alduade, for capturing and conveying all the heartache and pain in your one-of-a-kind style 🙇🙇🙇

@makorra-week-2023

[appalesbian]

Any OCs you'd like to talk about?

Also, any characters from atla/tlok that you think would have chronic pain or back pain or something like what you're experiencing?

I don’t really have OCs for this fandom, unless you count like. Kuvira’s kids from Pour Myself a Cup of Ambition lmao. I do have a TTRPG character I’ve been playing for like 2.5 years now who I absolutely adore! Her name is Ness, she’s an intergalactic smuggler with addiction issues and a trainwreck of a love life. She’s both extremely suave and cool under pressure and a giant useless dork and she’s very important to me.

As far as chronic pain HCs, Korra’s always my first thought. Her arc after the Red Lotus with recovering from her physical and psychological trauma hits very close to home for me, so she’s got similar issues to me in my head (namely, her back always hurts in some form or fashion.) Most of the time she can manage it, but she has to take it day by day and be very cognizant of her body and its limits. She has to learn to take care of herself (gasp, the horror)!

I also am onboard the Zuko chronic pain train! I admittedly know very little about burns but I feel like it would make sense for him to have lifelong pain due to the scarring (I also think he’s probably have vision and hearing issues from that injury but that’s neither here nor there).

[thowawayuntilfurthernotice]

Now, I can sit here all day and talk about my issues with Steven Universe and Star vs The Forces of Evil, but I don’t think it’s fair to claim that they’re the best examples of wasted potential.

To me, the best example of wasted potential has to be The Legend of Korra. Now sure, one could argue that it was never going to be as great as The Last Airbender, but it was such a let down that it almost ruined the entire Avatar franchise for me.

Steven Universe was a show that constantly struggled with its identity, it didn’t know if it wanted to be a wacky slice of life show, or a lore heavy show. While SVTFOE sacrificed everything in favor of a romantic relationship.

But LoK is still the biggest disappointment, mostly because it had everything going for it, but it just kept floundering every step of the way.

Every single character arc was a mess, the retcons to the established lore were awful, and it was a slog of a series to sit through.

[tamras-shieldmaiden]

Heyo again! So... for this second request, tell me about Korra!

Alright! Let's talk about our series protagonist, Avatar Korra! 

1: sexuality headcanon 

The series finale marked an important milestone in animated history by giving Korra a canonical same-sex romantic partner which provided much-needed positive queer representation in children’s television and television in general. Because of this, it’s not much of a headcanon to agree that Korra is a bisexual woman. My headcanon is that she is very attracted to strong, smart, competent green-eyed, dark-haired women.😏 Fandom tends to portray her as a bottom but I personally think she’s more of a switch with strong service top leanings.  

2: otp 

My OTP is Korra/Kuvira and I also really like the idea of an OT3 with Korra, Asami, and Kuvira. (Korrasami stans please don’t come at me!) The Enemies to friends to lovers trope works so well here and combined with a Kuvira redemption arc it’s just chef’s kiss. I still find it quite amusing how one of Korra’s most emotional and softest moments happens when she finds herself with Kuvira in the Spirit World. If you have to blame someone for this ship, blame the animators and the writers for having given us this image that screams ship all over:

Get yourself someone who would look at you the way Korra is looking at Kuvira

3: brotp 

Her BROTPs are Bolin and Kya. Kya is the elder mentor who not only is queer and from the Southern Water Tribe like her, but she also has a direct connection to the Avatar and therefore, knows of the burdens and expectations of having to live with the legacy of the position. 

4: notp 

Korra as the MC has inevitably been shipped with pretty much everyone so I’ve seen some really weird pairings but for the life of me, I can’t wrap my mind around Korra/Amon, Korra/Tarrloq and Korra/Amon/Tarrloq. It just doesn’t compute, and this is from someone who understands the appeal of the enemies to lovers trope, but this one, ugh, nope. 

5: first headcanon that pops into my head 

This is not so much headcanon as it is an extrapolation from the series and comics but Korra is not only strong and athletic, but she’s a very outdoorsy Avatar and enjoys roughing it out. She’s an excellent navigator and sailor and even without her bending, she would be able to survive in the outdoors just by her skills alone.  Every year, she would take a break from training in the Southern Water Tribe compound to go camping with dad Tonraq and best girl Naga where they would hunt and fish and learn all the proper skills a member of the Water Tribes should know. 

6: favorite line from this character 

“Still think I’m a half-baked Avatar?” 

From Book One, When Extremes meet

7: one way in which I relate to this character

I think I can relate to being underestimated as she constantly was.

8: thing that gives me secondhand embarrassment about this character 

The love triangle. That was an epic mess.

9: cinnamon roll or problematic fave?

Cinnamon roll (who can kill you) 100% 🤣

[calx77]

OKAY, I make my return to tumblr and if you cannot tell by my reblogs I have recently rewatched Atla, watched Lok, and read the Kyoshi novels. And I. Am. Insane. I love this franchise so much and there is a frick ton of stuff I will ramble about tomorrow or something but TONIGHT. 

Korra. (Spoilers Ahead ) 

Easily one of my favorite Avatars, I like her more than Aang and as much as Kyoshi. Don’t get me wrong ! Aang is an amazing Avatar and super cool character, but Korra is just so GOOD.

I know a lot of people dislike her because of her attitude in the early season and because of her losing connection to her past selves. And I totally get it she annoyed the fuck out of me in the first two seasons because she was brash and loud and maybe a little too invested in dating Mako. But at the same time I couldn’t help but adore her, she was so very human. She made mistakes, she acted like a hot headed 17 year old (which she was !) and that made her so appealing to me. Its also what made her character arc so amazing.

Her arc is super similar to Zuko’s (minus the redemption) she goes from a loud, rambunctious, kind of irritating teenager to someone who was very wise. She learnt from her mistakes and grew past her trauma, and in doing so she became an amazing Avatar. With her newfound and very impressive spiritual connection and trying to choose peace over fighting Kuvira ( which isn’t something her younger self would have done ), season four just really shows how much growth she has had as a person.  Which would not have been so incredible if she hadn’t been so childish and dislikable at first. ( not too dislikable though she always had her charm )

On another note, her restarting the Avatar cycle is a terrible thing. Not her fault of course, she couldn’t do anything to prepare for a powerful spirit like Vaatu. But it makes me sad that she will never be able to connect and talk with her past selves. She is completely and utterly alone. As terrible and sad as this is though, I think it helps her grow as an Avatar, she is forced to do things on her own, unable to seek advice from Aang, Roku, Kyoshi, anyone. She is forced to carve her own path as the Avatar with no guidance. But she does it ! She becomes amazing and she brings the Air nomads back. The physical and spirit worlds are joined together again for the first time in a thousand years. She started a new era without the counsel of her past selves and I think it has turned out amazing. Now I wish there was some way for her to reconnect, for her sake and because I want Aang to see that his people are back. But sadly I don’t think that can ever happen. Even if it can’t, I like to believe that the past incarnations of the Avatar are still watching over her somehow.

My thoughts are super frazzled now and I hope thats all legible but my main point is Korra is super cool and doesn’t deserve all the hate she gets just because she isn’t Aang or Kyoshi or Yangchen 

[seeyouafter]

SYA Extended Notes Ch. 5

Excerpt from "See You After" Chapter 5: June 2: Todoroki to Bakugou

There was a little girl there. I think she’s about Eri’s age. Her parents were at work so a nurse was looking after her. They were feeding the koi and asked if I wanted to join them[...] She seems really smart. Kind of reminded me of you, but I think that’s mostly because she said my hair was funny and called me a peppermint.

References in this chapter:

Koi

Image from Unsplash | source for koi facts in this chapter

I don't remember what inspired this bit originally. I think I just wanted to give Shouto a quiet moment that he could write to Katsuki about and while I was writing the draft the little girl and the koi fish just showed up on the page. (I think Shouto awkwardly but lovingly interacting with kids is super cute and we need more of it.)

藤谷病院 (Fujitani Hospital)

Obviously, I'm inventing my own facts about the hospital for the sake of this story but I didn't want to invent a whole new hospital and I like the idea of Shouto being able to spend time with his mom while he's recovering. There are other things that went into the thought process but those are the main reasons.

Legend of Korra reference

I'm not sure how this scene from Legend of Korra popped into my head while I was writing this fic because it's been years since I last watched it but the sentiment of this particular scene really fit what I was going for in Shouto's letters in the beginning of this arc.

Shouto's current struggle with his quirk is somewhat similar to Korra's inability to enter the Avatar State and in both cases they isolate themselves from their friends but eventually reach out to one person who will end up becoming their romantic partner.

This is what it turned into in "See You After"

Please don’t tell the others. I’m pretty sure Aizawa Sensei told them I’m okay but I’m not really in the mood for visitors and I don’t want to hurt their feelings if they find out I’ve only been writing to you and not them.  -Shouto to Katsuki

The reality is, when you're hurting so badly, it's hard to reach out to people even if you know that they care. But sometimes, if you're lucky, there will be one person you feel like you can talk to.

(That doesn't mean the responsibility is all on that one person, of course.)

BNHA Canon references

Writing fanfic for a piece of media while said media is ongoing and is in the middle of an exciting time is a Journey™.

(For context, I'm posting this right after Ch. 404 was released. Further thoughts with spoilers below the cut)

I think I said this before but nothing in the plot of "See You After" has actually changed based on the recent manga chapters.

The only edit to this letter that I made after chapter 404 came out was that one sentence about Katsuki saving All Might. The previous draft had a vague thing about him saving Izuku and continuing to fight because I was trying to hedge my bets since I'm still trying to keep things as close to canon as possible.

I was originally on the fence about giving explicit spoilers but then THAT happened and I couldn't not include it because they definitely would have talked about it.

I also wanted to reference, Shouto's scene in Ch. 390 where he finally makes it to Touya and realizes that the whole family is there.

His words were fitting for his character and yet so heartbreaking because even after everything he did, after the burden that was placed on his shoulders, he still makes a point of saying that he couldn't have done it alone.

Also, it sounds an awful lot like Touya's words back in Ch. 351 when he accused Shouto of depending on everyone else (as if that's a weakness rather than a strength)

[kataraslove]

zukaang?

for the record, i’m going to talk about adult zukaang. but i don’t really ship it - i love their platonic soulmatism too much.

1. why don’t you ship it?

the franchise highlights the generational strength of their enemies to allies to friends to best friends arc - it is the basis of avatar the last airbender and the legend of korra (with the creation of republic city). i feel that that bond does not necessarily need to turn romantic for it to be enjoyable for me.

2. what would have made you like it?

again, it’s just one of those relationships that i adore too much platonically.

3. despite not shipping it, do you have anything nice to say about it?

yeah, and it’s this:

the hand holding? the “his heart burns brighter than any flame we can bend?” avatar aang, you are married with three kids and waxing poetry about your best friend to his uncle. “aang and zuko became best friends” is an understatement of the century.

[likeadragonfruit]

I’m surprised that I don’t have as much to go over in separate posts this time. So it’s roundup/brain dump time for book 3. Also yeah it’s been a few months haha 😅

Big Picture

Overall flow

This is the best season so far. I’ve even seen people say this is better than ATLA, and I don’t know that I’d go that far, but this is probably the most watchable it’s been so far. (And watchability isn’t damning with faint praise, Law and Order built an empire on being watchable.)

It does a decent job picking things up from the previous season and moving forward from there, especially considering how much book 2 looked like it was setting up a series finale.

But that cast size problem? Getting worse. We’re now up to Korra and the rest of Krew, Tenzin and his family (including his siblings still), Lin, Korra’s family (minus Unalaq), and adding in Lin’s family, airbenders (most prominently Kai) and the Red Lotus members

Also, the trend of breaking Korra in some way at the end of each season  continues, expect this is the one without a hasty recovery

Korra and the airbenders

It’s the event that shapes the whole season: new airbenders emerging post-harmonic convergence

And it’s ambiguous exactly what happened but Tenzin (acting as an authorial mouthpiece) attributes it to Korra

So the point is consequences? She (supposedly) created a bunch of airbenders but also kickstarted the Red Lotus plot via Zaheer’s escape

Which later almost kills her, except for the other airbenders who prevent Zaheer from escaping

Anyway, the way this plot is introduced initially bothered me a lot, but since it’s what the season revolves around, I kind of had to deal with it regardless.

Politics:

The politics of moderation reign once more

“(Bad) monarchs are bad, but so is anarchy” is a take I suppose

It’s kind of weak with the Red Lotus being more straw man anarchists than anything

Character opinions

Korra: I’m actually a little bothered by how little I have to say about her currently.

Mako: as said previously, I didn’t hate him and he’s even better now that they’ve freed him from the love triangle. But they’ve also been quarantining him with Bolin.

Bolin: oh Bolin, you’d be so good if you were good. He’s more tolerable this season at moments, and so obnoxious at others still. (Yes I’m ignoring last season.) Ultimately I still landed on not liking him.

Asami: she still isn’t getting storylines, but she’s basically the best supporting player there is. She works well with any character you pair her off with.

Tenzin: pass

Jinora: pass

Kya: oh you get to do so little this season, but I still love you.

Bumi: was alright this season.

Kai: a pretty classic jerk with heart of gold, but the classics are classics because they work.

Hou Ting: pass

Lin: I was actually a bit conflicted because the whole “being forced to interact with Suyin” thing during her mini arc was not a good look on her.

Suyin: so for her all her faults, I actually kinda like her, and it’s hard to explain. The best way I can think of is she scratches the part of my brain that’s a fan of Gon Freeces. And put in a way comprehensible to non-HxH fans, it’s that her selfish and hypocrisy reminds me of other characters where those flaws were critical to their arcs, even though I already know this series will never call Suyin on it, really.

Opal: the only of Suyin’s kids worth mentioning this season. 

Zaheer: he gets talks up a lot as he franchise’s best villain but meh. 

Ghazan: I want to come up with more, but basically I like him, for the little we get

Ming-Hua: see Ghazan

P’li: better than the last combustion bender we got. But most of the positive things I could say are either design or action related. She just got so little to do character wise compared to the rest. 

Shipping

yeah, still keeping this section

Korrasami: well they’ve spent more time together this season. As far as build up, umm…

Jinora/Kai: they’re cute, puppy love

Zaheer/P’li: meh

Bopal: love/hate relationship here. Sometimes I’m just like, “ugh, no, run Opal.” Others, it scratches that “aww dorks in love” part of my brain. But ultimately “girl, run” is winning. (You can do better, Opal!)

Stray observations

This season, having been ordered at the same time as season 4 is clearly setting up things that will come back in the next season. Are they the best use of these connections? Umm…

It’s odd seeing Kuvira this season as a dancer in her (background) introduction and for the rest of the season as the guard captain Lin and Suyin bark orders at, save her saving Tonraq’s life. It’s also a shame since so much more could be done with her and better set up the next season

Why is spirit projection an airbender technique? Because Jinora is an airbender, therefore it must be a form of airbending somehow?

You know, I actually really like the Mako detective moments. While I wouldn’t say I’d like a spin off, an au fic would work

If I had a nickel for every time a villain threatened to or tried to wipe out the airbenders/airbending, I’d have three nickels…

In the “Enter the Void,” Grey’s Ming-Hua starts slipping more into her Azula voice

Okay fuck Bolin for this moment

8 years later and I still vibe with Ghazan’s death over prison attitude

It’s been a very different experience watching book 3 like this, even more so than book 1 and 2. 8 years ago, I was watching books 3 and 4 during a stressful time in my life and didn’t necessarily mind all the details then

And with that, we’re in the homestretch. Just book 4 left now…

[lostshitpirate]

Legend of Korra S4 Thoughts

It’s almost 2 AM but I’m jotting down my tired thoughts about s4

Spoilers ahead

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Overall I thought it was a pretty good season. Some aspects are a little shaky but overall it was a pretty strong season

I think kuvira was a good antagonist. Her stepping up to take power after korra left is a really good follow up to s3. I think the way she contrasts zaheer in the ways they think the world should be without an avatar was interesting. With zaheer wanting chaos and kuvira being on the other end of the spectrum with full control with her straight up being a fascist.

I think the way she will sacrifice everyone and everything to reach her goal made her more intimidating too. She contrasts to zaheer who did you force to reach his goal but mostly carefully planned his steps and did it with a smaller team with less casualties and damage. Kuvira does a lot with force. She does plan but most of her plans involve showing the power she has in numbers and technology or just her own strength.

I don’t like how they tried to sorta make you sympathize with her (sympathize? idk if this is the right word. understand her?). She straight up had labor camps and “re-education” camps. She captured non earth kingdom citizens and put them there. I think the parallels to her and a fascist regime aren’t subtle so it’s a bit weird to be at the end like “oh she did this because she was scared and wanted control”

I feel like hama or jet are more sympathetic in their need for control after experiencing trauma and that leading to them hurting others. I think because of the scale and damage of what kuvira did made me just not feel sympathetic to her. I think also bcuz she also had a family in the beifongs too where as jet and hama lost everything.

I think the use of spirit powers was also kinda meh. This is a problem to the whole of korra but turning spirits and spiritual powers into raw power was not a good move. Spirits and spirituality in alta was more about personal growth and connecting with nature. It had basis in an actual philosophy. They kinda had that with korra reconnecting with herself but really pushed it more into spirit energy is raw power.

I’m a little conflicted though bcuz I think the spirit laser thing is sorta a good idea. It introduces nukes and nuclear energy into the avatar universe and I think that’s an interesting idea but I think it falls flat bcuz it uses spirit energy to do that so idk.

I liked korra in this season. The way they continue her arc that started in season one and fleshed her out and matured her more is good. The way they dive into the trauma she’s endured in the past seasons. I think it’s able to give those scenes more weight. I think it also shows how korra has gone through so much in such a short time and gives her and the audience time to process it a bit more.

Idk how I feel about the message of korra needing to go through trauma to grow. I can see what they were going for. Using your experience even bad ones to grow is good. Getting stuck and learning nothing will leave you stuck. I like that it’s both talked about and shown with how korra just leaves and is unable to fully heal for a good while.

I don’t think she needed to experience trauma for that though. I don’t really think anyone should go through trauma. I feel like if they expressed it more like “I hate what happened to me. It really sucks and hurt me in a way that changed me, but I’m glad I was able to overcome it and grow from it. I changed for the better rather than the worst” or something along those lines. Idk

I do like that scene with zaheer. It was interesting to see him especially since he actually decides to help korra. Zaheer was always interesting bcuz of that the way he actually sits and talks with ppl and does things in a peaceful way despite how ruthless he is. I kinda wish we had a bit more time with him especially with him as a teacher for korra.

I think the characters and their arcs are pretty interesting this season. I’m glad we got to see varrick and zhu li again. They’re both great and seeing more of them is always good. I actually liked mako this season. He felt more like a side character with his arc with wu but it was good to see him.

Also side tangent wu and mako had more chemistry for me than korra and mako despite how much the writers really tried to push them in s1 and s2 lol

Anyways. Some of the characters did fall a bit flat. I love asami but she also sorta felt like a side character. I might write more about asami in another post since I have thoughts but I’m tired lol. I also like bolín but he’s always great

That clip show episode was kinda meh. The best part was varrick and bolin since that phone scene with all the antagonists was really funny. But honestly I wish they could have cut it but it was probably there for budget reason so cest la vie

I might have more thoughts but that’s for tmrw lol. Overall I’d rate s4 an 7.5/10

[mimzynimh]

Loving these posts so much and thankyou for making them and putting in the time.

Making my rosegarden heart scream ❤️😍

Realistically I don’t expect them to be canon because I honestly don’t want to have my hopes up to have it crushed (cough* other fandoms *cough*)But I see so many parallels and scenes that just make them seem so good together I would scream if it did become canon.

If it did become canon I can see it being something like;

I don’t expect them to have a whole romance arc due to the time left of the show and there already being 2 atm being ren n nora, Blake and Yang (that I know of mind you), but I hope when this is all over at the end it has a confirmation like say the big conflict has been defeated and with that burden being off rubys shoulders she can finally give in to the little things like simply falling in love,

I can imagine her and oscar (finally) hugging, followed by them basically having a moment where it confirms that after the show is ended that’s who she’s going to end up with.

Kind of like korra and Asami from TLOK (don’t hate me I haven’t seen the whole show but I know that in the end it’s them confirming the relationship by holding each others hand and walking into the portal thing)

Honestly I’m happy as long as they don’t kill of Oscar tbh. But if it did become canon I would be so happy and be talking about it for ages after. Fingers crossed 🤞

I think we can possibly get rg crumbs with Neo teasing Ruby as Oscar even more🙏 let's pray for the crumbs 🙏 it's been 84 years 🥹

I literally JUST wrote an analysis of this and threw it on twitter like 2 days ago. I had been meaning to put it on my personal blog but you, dear anono, have given me incentive to put it here instead.

The Interesting Pattern of People Using Oscar Against Ruby

This kicks off primarily in v7, which makes sense since Oscar and Ruby are thrown into conflict as early as episode 2. The conflict is a result of Ruby lying to Ironwood in an attempt to protect him and the rest of their team... But it's clear from the start not everyone agrees with that decision.

Of those that don't agree, the loudest seem to be Oscar and Yang. The latter of which - who is our first example - chooses to bring it up with Ruby in front of their whole team when they're on their first mission with the Ace Ops. Except Yang doesn't just voice her own thoughts or feelings, she makes a point to to ask Ruby how Oscar feels about it. Which was not the fairest way to go about it if you ask me. Especially seeing how Ruby reacted. It's also VERY INTERESTING how that scene directly parallels what it transitions into: Oscar posing those same concerns to her. Except unlike Yang, he found Ruby when she was alone so they didn't have an audience to witness their conflict.

From there, we have a slightly more subtle example: Ironwood. And by 'subtle' i just mean he doesn't say it as directly with his words or actions as the other examples we're discussing here. We do know that their conflict for this volume is centered on their disagreement of what to do with Ironwood... and the show reminds us of that by constantly framing the two separated by him.

Whether it was Ironwood's intention or not, he did manage to drive a wedge between the two of them. And while this conflict does keep them apart for a while... it doesn't work as well as it could have. The first example of this is in episode 7 where Oscar and Ironwood are having their talk near the winter vault.

Ironwood: Do you believe in me? Oscar: I do believe in you. But not only you.

It is very clear Oscar is talking about the other leader in this situation: Ruby. Showing that despite their disagreement, he still does stand by and respect Ruby's decision. Even in this photo, while they are still separated by Ironwood, they are agreeing with each other about what to do:

That scene is then directly followed by the infamous "Schnee Manor Fumble" where the the two finally agree to tell Ironwood the truth and regain some trust in each other.

And as much as I would love to analyze this scene in even more depth, it will have to wait for another post.

For now the next example: Cinder

In V8 when she sabotages their portal plan, it's literally the first thing she says and I still don't know why. Cinder saw the vision of them making this plan, but it was a group endeavor. And the only things we saw Oscar say were the technicalities of how Atlas would fall when using the staff... So what exactly was she referring to? and why did she mention his name specifically?

And then last, but certainly not least: Neo.

We saw this back when the v9 teaser clip first dropped however long ago and it was a topic of BIG DEBATE. Many argued there was no significance behind why she chose Oscar of all people to turn into... but I have to disagree.

In tandem with all these other examples, there is a narrative pattern formed of people specifically using Oscar as a way to twist the knife at Ruby. Yang, Cinder, and - depending on if you view his contribution as intentional or not - Ironwood. Which makes Neo the 3rd or 4th person to do this.

Neo has a vendetta against Ruby. We know this. We know that Yang was an easy choice to hurt her because they're sisters. We know Penny is a good choice because they're close friends and Ruby already lost her once. But Oscar? Why Oscar?

Why did she pick him first? And why did she specifically use a mirage of him when he's covered in bruises and burn marks when she has seen him cleaned up multiple times? To that I have two answers.

The first: because she was there at the Schnee manor and saw them interact in the entryway.

And what she saw convinced her that the two of them were close. Close enough that using Oscar's face against Ruby - especially one battered and bruised - would be an easy way to hurt her.

I'm not trying to use this argument to say that Ruby has feelings for Oscar. I think in canon she is largely too preoccupied with the weight of the world on her shoulders to think about that right now. But we DO know that Oscar feels some type of way about her.

And that even if it's not established in canon as romantic yet, Ruby and Oscar are close. That they do have a relationship built on mutual trust, respect, and understanding for being in similar situations. As clearly displayed in show as well as backed up by Miles in this cameo.

But at the end of the day, there is a very strong emphasis on her connection to Oscar since his debut, which characters within the narrative are noticing! (just look at Nora's face here)

But that brings me to my 2nd point as to why Neo chose the characters she did: Because the writers wanted us to see that.

Animation is expensive and so much meticulous detail and intent goes into everything that we see. They wouldn't have just chosen those characters arbitrarily. They chose those three characters on purpose and I think it largely has to do with how those characters relate to Ruby's arc for Volume 9. So lets go down the list in more detail:

Yang

Once again, it is a bit self explanatory. Her and Ruby are sisters with unresolved conflict that has been building for a while now. Some of it from their upbringing, but a lot of the more recent struggles being Yang's habit of calling Ruby out or disagreeing with her in front of groups of people. It was mentioned at the start of this post, but there are two other examples that come to mind. The beginning of v8 and more recently, v9e3.

In the first, she is arguing with Ruby in front of a room full of people and they all get to see her leadership called into question. The second, we see Ruby's patience around this habit starting to wear thin. I'm not trying to say Yang is wrong to express these things, but the way she goes about them is often not very considerate of Ruby's feelings. Especially her feelings tied to leadership, which is a big theme for this volume.

As mentioned in the v9 trailer, someone says "You seem to be carrying a rather large burden". However, we can see very clearly Ruby's not carrying it well at all and that she is well on her way to breaking under that pressure. A pressure and insecurity that Yang has unfortunately contributed to even when she's trying her very best to be supportive.

Two brief side notes:

Blake and Qrow are also guilty of hurting Ruby in this way unintentionally, but I don't want to touch on them in this post so it will have to wait for another meta

VERY INTERESTING that right before this shot, Yang says "My plan for mantle didn't work out either... but we got Oscar back". Which is a very nice callback to the last time she brought him up to Ruby at the beginning of v7.

But back on track to the next illusion Neo uses:

Penny

We know this one is a big one. The two have always been very close and Ruby is quite protective of her in light of having already lost her once. We saw Ruby admit to this for the first (and pretty much only) time on screen when speaking with Oscar in the Dojo during v5. (yet another scene I would like to dissect more in detail in a later post)

Ruby: When Beacon fell, I lost two of my friends. Penny Polendina and Pyrrha Nikos. (...) Ruby: Pyrrha... Penny. I'd be lying if I said it didn't hurt. That I didn't think about them every day since I lost them.

We also see Ruby passes out when she hears that Penny didn't survive the fall. Then later she gives a eulogy of sorts over the sword that she got from Jinxy. So this plot around Ruby's grief towards Penny is going to be very prevalent this volume.

And lastly:

Oscar

Why him when he didn't fall with them? Well, because we already had a parallel setup between him and Ruby in relation to "The Girl Who Fell Through The World".

Oscar: She brushed off her bumps and bruises, for nothing hurt worse than the loneliness in her chest. Oz: I recognize that. The Girl Who Fell Through the World. Oscar: I shouldn't be surprised you're so familiar with fairytales. Oz: I've lived through my share of them. How are you holding up? Oscar: I thought the idea of falling through Remnant into a new world was... exciting. I never understood why she was so sad when she finally made it back home. But now it makes more sense. Oz: She wasn't the same girl anymore.

Oscar relates because of how he was thrown into this adventure and how it's changed him... and the same can be said for Ruby. Except instead of the call to adventure choosing her, she chose the path herself and then fell into that fairytale first hand. Literally. Into an arc that seems to be telling her that in order for her to grow, survive, and to rise up from the fall she just had: she needs to change. Just like Alyx did. Just like Oscar did.

Unkown Voice: What if you could leave Ruby Rose behind? Shed like an old coat. What might happen... if you don't?

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand that's all i've got rn. there are so many crumbs i have built myself a damn loaf of bread, my friends. and i have very few doubts that Neo won't try and use a mirage of Oscar against Ruby again. if you got to the end, thank you for reading and let me know if you'd like to see more of this stuff or if you'd prefer I keep it on my non-art blog @gatheringkeepsakes. Until then... RG CANON OKAY BYE.

[enbylesbianism]

How ‘IRON WIDOW’ by Xiran Jay Zhao changed my reading experience

I’ll be straightforward: I’m in love with ‘Iron Widow’ since *checks notes* May, when I read it, and it’s now my life’s purpose to make everyone else as in love with it as I am. 

First of all, I’d like to say that I don’t usually consume media with sci-fi aspects, action, mecha suits, that kind of thing. I was a follower of Xiran and watched their videos analysing Asian (and Asian-inspired) media, such as Mulan, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Legend of Korra, Netflix’s Over The Moon etc. I also happen to find Xiran’s voice very soothing, so there’s that. So, when they mentioned that they were writing a book, I was interested, especially putting that it was polyamory and a historical reimagining. When I got around to requesting the publishers (thank you so much, Penguin Teen Canada!) for an ARC and reading it... well, it was just game changing. 

I don’t think I’ll ever be able to read a book with a love triangle that doesn’t end up with all of them in love with each other again. Of course, as a polyamory person, I’d already considered that as an option and I’d already asked (more like begged, actually) for more media with this concept, but I hadn’t actually seen it until now (I am going to need Tracy Deonn to follow in Xiran’s footsteps and make BreeSelNick endgame, by the way). I had considered it an option before, but since I’d never seen it happen, I unconsciously made myself believe that such a thing wasn’t allowed. ‘Iron Widow’ was here to tell me that it doesn’t matter if it’s allowed, because you can take it. I exist, and seeing myself represented is something I can claim as mine.

Another thing this book delivered flawlessly was unhinged women. The internet keeps talking about people written by men or by women, but I’m here for something else: people written by Xiran Jay Zhao. Wu Zetian wields her rage fearlessly, she’s shady and ruthless. Her moral compass is messy. I’ve waited for a character like her my whole life, but hadn’t known it until she’d been given to me on a silver platter. No, it’s better than that: given to me on a document sent to my e-mail, then to my Kindle, like most delightful things are. 

Not only did Xiran give me Wu Zetian, though, but on my Kindle silver platter, there was also Gao Yizhi and Li Shimin, her outstanding love interests. While Li Shimin fits the tormented bad boy criteria (but better, because that’s just what Xiran does, makes good things better), Gao Yizhi would fit the rich good boy one (yes, eat-the-rich-romantically trope!). But while he is kind and nice, we’re led to believe that there is something dark in him, though maybe his morals aren’t as messy as Zetian’s. Their dynamic can probably be described as Bonnie, Clyde, and their househusband. Perfection, truly. 

The plot is also marvellous, including the oppression at the core of the system, how dirty the powerful people play to get what they want, as well as realistic plot twists. Something I liked, too, was the way Xiran Jay Zhao dealt with the action in the book: I’m usually not all for action-packed books, but the way Xiran did it pulled me in. It’s intense and involves a lot of emotion, something that usually lacks action scenes (one of the reasons why I don’t like them all that much). 

The way trauma is handled in ‘Iron Widow’ is spectacular, too. There are all sorts of these included, from family trauma to ones caused by alcoholism (I’d disclose more on that, but I’m not sure how spoilery that would be), and it doesn’t show only the “pretty” part of it: we get to see the anger that’s so often played in a way as to make the traumatised person feel guilty and the lashing out. 

Besides, ‘Iron Widow’ has everything: hate-to-love? Yup. Friends to lovers? Absolutely! Fake dating/arranged marriage? You bet! Overthrowing the government? 100% yes! That’s basically the plot of the book. Femme fatale trope where a character seduces, then kills a man? Again, that’s basically the (initial) plot. Forbidden/secret relationship? Lots of it. Morally gray characters? Basically all of them are. Fighting while injured and not 100% healthy yet? Mhm. Intense fights with giant, magic mecha suits inspired by mythology? I got you (Xiran does, actually)! Plot twists? YES! One party of the relationship finding a way to help/save their loved one from a dangerous situation that was almost impossible to do so? Yes!!!! 

If all my gushing wasn’t enough for you to pre-order this book or add it on your TBR, then... get help. But fear not! Becuase I’ll definitely post more about this book! (Maybe not here on Tumblr, but I have an account on Twitter 100% dedicated to it, so...) Because I’m obsessed with it! ‘Iron Widow’ releases in NINE DAYS, on September 21st, so make sure to check it out! Or else Wu Zetian won’t come for you! And believe me, you want her to.

[impostoradult]

I finally figured out why it feels like Supernatural murdered a unicorn (AKA why you need to STOP telling me to watch Black Sails)

I’ll start by saying, everything everyone else has been saying CERTAINLY bothers me: 

- the queer-baiting - the bury your queers - the undermining of Dean’s character arc  - the wasted opportunity for a certain kind of overall narrative closure - the flat out disrespect to Misha Collins and Jensen Ackles

 All of that bothers me tremendously. 

But there has been something else rather ineffable about this that has left a horrible taste in my mouth that I couldn’t quite pin down until last night. Bear with me, if you will, because this will require some set-up. 

*** This is not the first show to ever disappoint me in a spectacular fashion, nor will it be the last, I suspect. And one of the ways I’ve always coped with that disappointment was to remind myself that there will be other stories, other characters, other chances to get it right. (”It” being any number of things from just pure narrative emotional coherence to not burying your queers to not stringing along your queer audience and then yelling fuck you to them on the way out) 

But somehow that assurance -- that there will be other stories, other characters, other chances to get it right -- has rung particularly hollow in this instance, and I couldn’t quite put my finger on why until yesterday. 

I kept asking myself, why do I still have this feeling, deep in the pit of my stomach, like something was lost here that can never be recovered? 

Because something was lost here that I am doubtful can ever be recovered, and I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else talking about this aspect of it at all. 

***

A few months ago, TV critic Maureen Ryan did a great interview piece with Mike Schur (of Parks & Rec/The Good Place) discussing the death of long-form TV in the streaming era. They explore how the longer seasons and longer runs of traditional broadcast/cable TV provided an opportunity to tell particular kinds of stories that you simply can’t when seasons are 8-10 episodes and series typically run 2-4 seasons (thanks Netflix).

One key thing we’ve all lost in this new era of highly condensed TV storytelling (and of prestige TV narrative styles)? The traditional (several season’s long) slow-burn/will-they-won’t-they romance. Not only is there simply no longer the time or space to write such romances, it has also come to be seen as hacky, manipulative, cheap, artistically impoverished, low-brow, a embarrassing vestige of the era before TV became art™. 

Everybody is trying to be Fleabag now. No one wants to be Frasier. (”It’s really more like a 10 hour movie” they all like to brag)

Obviously TV still has romances, even ‘drawn out’ romances. But ‘drawn out’ in 2020 is like 2-3 seasons, maybe. More commonly it’s like half a season. Take Schitt’s Creek. The number of episodes between when David and Patrick first meet and when they first kiss? Seven. Seven episodes. Half a season. If you watched it live, it took less than 2 months for them to move from introducing that dynamic to consummating it. And I’m not bagging on Schitt’s Creek; I think the David/Patrick’s story is very lovely and well-written. 

But Niles & Daphne (Fraiser) had to wait 7 years and over 150 episodes before they finally got there. Josh & Donna (The West Wing) had to wait 6+ years, and 145 episodes. Mulder & Scully (The X-Files) had to wait 7 seasons and 143 episodes. Booth & Bones had to wait...you see where I am going with this. 

And my point is (and I can’t believe I never realized this explicitly until now): there has NEVER been a queer slow-burn/will-they-won’t-they romance of that type on TV ever. EVER. 

I’m going to say that again, because I think it bares repeating:

There has never been a queer, slow-burn/will-they-won’t-they romance that fits the 100-150 episode paradigm of delayed gratification on TV. 

Not ever.  

I can’t think of ONE example  Not a single, solitary one. And I know queer TV pretty well. Arguably the closest we’ve ever come is Legend of Korra, and that ran 50 episodes, a THIRD of the length of old school will-they-won’t-theys like Booth & Bones or Josh & Donna. 

Queer people have had a fair number of canonical romances on TV by now, even fairly long running ones. But we never got a primary/front-and-center romance that you had to root for for 100+ episodes before you got any kind of canonical consummation.

That is a particular kind of TV experience that queer people and queer characters were just 100% shut out of until it was too late. And because of how the TV landscape has changed in the last 10 years, I don’t know that that opportunity will ever come back around in our lifetimes. 

***

Dean and Castiel are/were a legacy of an earlier era of TV, an era that still contained the possibility for a will-they-won’t-they of that particular mold. There were other shows that could have also filled this gap at one time - Rizzoli & Isles, OUAT, House MD, etc. But one by one all of them were killed off, their queer romances unrequited, until Supernatural was the only one of its’ generation left standing. 

And they should have acknowledged that they were a species about to become extinct. 

There are plenty of other valid and compelling reasons Supernatural should have gone full Destiel, don’t get me wrong.

A) It would have been the most emotionally satisfying ending to the series and to those characters (and that would have been reason enough). 

B) It would have stopped the manipulative queer-baiting of the (disproportionately queer) fanbase (and that would have been reason enough). 

C) It would have been queer representation of middle-aged men, of bi men, of queers who came to their queerness later in life (and any/all of those would have been reason enough). 

D) It could have been a glorious subversion of the bury your queers trope, considering how often they’ve died and been resurrected (and that would have been reason enough). 

But point E) on this list is the reason this one hurts in a singular way that no one even appears to be acknowledging. 

Almost all of the other wrongs and missed opportunities contained in this Supernatural debacle have the possibility of being rectified (at least to a degree) elsewhere. I can and I likely will get more bi male characters from TV as time goes on. I can and likely will get more middle-aged queer characters. I can and likely will get more queer characters coming to their queerness later in life, and starting queer romances later in life. I can and likely will get more queer characters who aren’t killed cheaply and prematurely. I can and likely will get more genre TV shows with sprawling myth arc plots that are resolved in a coherent, satisfying way. I can and likely will get Misha Collins and Jensen Ackles involved in other projects that value their work and their talents. 

All of those other things are at the very least POSSIBLE, and many are even likely. 

But a queer 100-150 episode slow-burn romance a la Mulder & Scully or Niles & Daphne or Booth & Bones? That is the one baton Supernatural dropped spectacularly that no one else even has the possibility of picking up again for the foreseeable future. (They don’t even write those types of romances for heterosexuals anymore!) 

Seriously. It was a TV unicorn. And rather than letting it run wild and free, they stabbed it with a rusty nail. 

***

Given the monumental shifts in the TV landscape that have occurred in the last decade, I don’t know that TV will ever go back to the slow-burn/will-they-won’t-they romance spanning 100-150 episodes. Today it is a miracle if you can get ANY show to last longer than 50 episodes in the first place. 

And that is the piece of this that makes it feel (to me) like they murdered a unicorn.  

Because queer people have gotten a lot of things from TV, and they will get a lot more as time goes on. But that one? That one could very well be a totally extinct species.

That is the larger missed opportunity here that has left this feeling especially hollow and destructive. That is the thing that makes me balk when people tell me to go watch Black Sails or Pose or whatever other prestige TV show is doing this representation ‘better.’ Because that’s not really the loss I am mourning here. I KNOW there is ‘better’ representation elsewhere.  

But the will-they-won’t-they/slow-burn romance is a qualitatively unique thing that queer people literally just never got. Ever. There is no substitute, no alternate, no other show I can turn to with that kind of build-up and pay-off for a queer couple, and there probably won’t be in my lifetime. Not unless the TV industry undergoes another monumental evolution similar to the streaming revolution that shifts the incentives back to telling those types of stories again. 

All those shows you want me to displace Supernatural with? None of them can give me the one thing I uniquely wanted (and could have gotten) from Supernatural. THAT ALTERNATE SHOW DOESN’T EXIST. It doesn’t exist. And I have no reason to hope it will ever exist in my lifetime. 

So stop telling me to look somewhere else; you don’t understand what made this one a unicorn. 

***

Addendum: The only other possible show that could perhaps fill this gap is It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia (re: Mac/Dennis). But I’m hesitant to say it exactly meets that criteria, for a number of reasons:

1 - It’s far less serialized relative to Supernatural and (except for a handful of stand-alone episodes) very little of the story is grounded specifically in Dennis/Mac’s romantic dynamic (unlike SPN, where it is absolutely central to much of the narrative)

2 - IASIP is fundamentally satirically in nature/tone which makes it much harder to have genuine romantic pathos (not impossible, but harder) 

3 - All the characters on IASIP are fundamentally crummy people who you aren’t exactly supposed to root for. Which doesn’t mean a romance between two of them can’t have its value/charm/worth but it’s not the same as when it is between characters who unequivocally deserve nice things/happy endings