#and actually have something to say about being tal-vashoth

[eldritchblaaaast]

i love making an inquisitor adaar (i like to feel tall), especially a mage adaar, but i spent too long pondering one particular version of inquisitor adaar and now i can't get him out of my head

[vigilskeep]

Any guesses on the Veilguard companions?

some suggestions i think are worth placing bets on

an antivan crow (the concept art and short story presence PLUS what’s been said about each companion representing “iconic factions”, i think this is a dead certainty). natural choice for a rogue, but the concept of crow mages has been being set up in the novels for a while

again judging by concept art presence, a nevarran mortalitasi necromancer OR a nevarran possessed skeleton type as our friendly spirit companion

a grey warden, probably from the anderfels/weisshaupt itself. always has been one and there is no faction more iconic, right? i believe there’s ancient voice acting snippets suggesting it’s some guy called davrin

considering the collective way that concept art captions, absolution, and apparently three separate stories from tevinter nights were like “hey did you know the LORDS OF FORTUNE are a thing? the lords of fortune from RIVAIN”, one of these. my guess is that they thought about going felicisima armada for a rivaini companion but didn’t want to just rehash isabela’s pirate gimmick so they made something up and they’ve been trying to set it up really hard

i’ve seen people suggest scout harding is being pushed forward for the role and i guess the inquisition is an iconic faction now?

otherwise, couldn’t really say for a dwarven companion. iconic factions might include the legion of the dead, the carta... the tevinter ambassadoria is a bit more niche but would make sense for a northern companion. i could also see them simply making one of the other suggestions a dwarf, the grey warden is definitely a strong contender since it’s always been a human man and it’d be nice to mix it up

speculatively, i’d like to see a templar. you can’t deny it’s an iconic faction. either a southern templar trying to take up a new cause after everything crashed and burned or a vint templar with a completely new perspective to what we’re used to would be a lot of fun. i would actually love to play this character if it’s not a companion lmao

another obvious faction is the dalish. it’s been a while since we had one, we’ve never had a non-mage dalish companion so there’s a lot of room for a fresh approach, they’re so plot relevant right now. someone’s got to give us that good good exposition! and i am so sick of it not being the dalish themselves 😭

i would be very surprised if there’s no qunari or tal-vashoth. i don’t have many strong ideas, i would just expect it to be a rogue or a mage, since warriors are all we’ve had

all that obviously tallies up to more than seven so we have to pick and choose—and i’m sure there’s plenty of surprises i haven’t thought of—but those would be my instincts! i’ve been thinking about this for a while haha. i’d be excited for any of these, just please, please hand over the romanceable dwarf. i know you’ve got them bioware

[lets-jam]

like it's true that is an interesting concept like a mother pregnant with her child leaving the qun before the child is taken, but that didn't seem to be what da4 implied... And like there *could* be something interesting with the mother still keeping bits n pieces of the society she left and her complex feelings about that given that she. left. But it would still be strange for her to be like 'you are qunari be like qunari' when even she's not that at all and should know this. Like again it's interesting to have a tal vashoth maybe have regrets n still hold on to parts of the qun despite that not really being a pick n choose kind of doctrine but like it's what they know etc idk but like that post said not a lot of attention was actually paid to the qun qunari and tal vashoth... I mean there's party banter where Harding says 'i love when you talk in qunari' and I'm like ain't it qunlat...

[platoniccereal]

on the "i was born into this, but i was never supposed to belong here" train of thought, everytime i think allaros would make a pretty decent qunari while having him dating the iron bull, it irreversibly alters my brain chemistry.

bull had to leave because he tried to fit in so much to the best of his abilities, but even with his endless loyalty something was always off. bull sees allaros, and there's this devotion to the role and to people that goes before anything personal, the strict order of things and restraint in smallest details. it's about bas like him, and cassandra, and madame de fer, they've achieved that outside the qun even though the qun promised it's impossible.

bull says, hey, vivienne, hey, cassandra, you would make a pretty decent qunari, hey, are you sure you're not, maybe, just a little bit tamassran, ma'am? bull sees allaros and thinks, hey, maybe the south isn't going just straight to crap with that hole in the sky as fast as i thought. he thinks, maybe i can respect that, exactly because allaros can be judged by the qun's standards.

the iron bull sees allaros, and they're different.

allaros is the reminder of what bull let himself overlook in himself to create a convincing mask. bull starts to respect him, but this is why allaros is the reminder of that if bull doesn't clearly separate what his role is and who he actually is, it would show how far away he's strayed. so bull has to remember that pleasures he found in the south aren't his to enjoy, that he isn't the iron bull.

allaros is the reminder that he is hissrad.

and if bas could be like that without the qun, what does it say about the qun. and if bas could be like that without the qun, what did bull fail to do.

and if bas like the inquisitor or madame de fer have ended up under the qun, he knows the simple truth about the invasion he learned years ago. that the qun is the good idea, but it would shed blood of so many he doesn't want to see that. they would be great qunari, but they would have to show it by taking stitches and serving their arvaad. there's no real place for them under the qun, and in this conclusion bull strayed so, so far away.

and then this very person gives an order a good qunari would disobey, and bull simply does not, and he's declared tal-vashoth. this very reminder in a form of an elf thinks it was a good decision, even though he has no reason to, because these men aren't even his to care about. his reminder puts a few before the duty and alliances, and so does bull.

his reminder of what the good qunari leader looks like is suddenly very bas. it's always been that way, lavellan has never stopped being bas in bas society.

bull is a qunari in the alien land of bas, and it's always has been that way. suddenly, it's much more lonely because in a similarity lies an understanding, but that bas would ever be able to understand him is just another illusion he let himself be amused by.

earlier that would serve to get him in line, now it gnaws on the empty space in his chest.

allaros now is a reminder of an unmeasurable gap between bull and home that understands him, but the one he will never be able to reach again.

then, bull finds out that allaros also always was doomed to not belong. neither to his clan, as much as they care for each other, there's nothing but damage and guilt, nor to his homeland because he loathes orlais. and he would never be a good qunari.

for both of them, their home had no place for them to fit in.

and then, there's understanding.

[old-archivist]

RE: the Bull and romance post: i really enjoyed your additions to that post! It's more in line with how I understand him, too. I just like that trope sometimes, you know? Lol. But yeah, with the Kadan title and tooth having potential romantic significance, I'd say there's a less likely possibility that he's completely ignorant of love and romance in the South, and I agree that he probably just doesn't recognize it when directed at himself. Not in a self-loathing way, but genuine bafflement, maybe? Or maybe a sort of detached disinterest at first. Since he's never *experienced* it, I can see him not recognizing it at first until someone actually goes "Hey, I like you for more than a good tumble". (Reminds me of me, kinda.)

Anyway, I'd love to hear more of your thoughts, if you have any! I love Iron Bull!

Yeah, I like the concept a lot. Really any conversation about Iron Bull deeper aspects of his character or romance is something I like to see! I definitely agree that it isn’t a “i can’t have romance because of self loathing” it’s just a thought that never crossed his mind. Especially since this is technically his job and he does maintain a distance with those outside of his inner circle of Chargers. Tumbles are for fun, there is by default no strings attached or he expectation for more or even a repeat after one night for any extended period of time.

As for my thoughts on Bull, they are many and probably I should talk about them more since they’ve gotten more solid the more I dig into lore and things. If you want thoughts on any particular thing feel free to ask!

But for this, I was trying to think of some non-romance tied things but most of my other thoughts on Bull are pretty heavy topics so we’ll stick with romance for this (Which is admittedly still heavy considering one of the possible scenarios of the Inquisitor/Bull relationship). This is ignoring the limitations of the game and the general overall open-ended writing style that allows you to fill in the blanks.

I think an under written part of the Iron Bull romance by people is that he tells you the truth up front from the beginning. He tells you he is a spy, he tells you that he was ordered to get close to those in charge, he tells you his purpose for joining the Inquisition. (More under the cut cause it’s long.)

Which, considering how main game Inquisition lasts only a year, it’s a bit hard to forget that piece of information I think. Especially when the Inquisitor would have constant reminders about his loyalties with his Ben-Hassrath reports up until he potentially becomes tal-vashoth. Regardless of the bond forged from fighting together, his loyalties to the Qun when he has them is not something forgotten even by the other companions.

But, I rarely see either the Inquisitor or their companions question the relationship. In the early stages or when the companion finds out. Especially if he is loyal to the Qun. Which I think can be a missed opportunity of not only showing the evolution of the romance but also how the companions approach it would reflect their relationship with the Inquisitor. Is it more concern over the impact it will have on the Inquisition? The security? Or is it about whether he will break their heart, if they are caught up in their emotions that they’re being reckless?

It’s something I don’t see written about in a lot of fics or even when people talk of their OCs in a relationship with him. But it sits in my mind a lot, after all the first thing Bull does is tell you the truth and exactly what he’s been ordered to do. He then allows you to decide what to do with that information and seemingly it is never really broached again. Not even after the first night or even touched upon again if he stays loyal to the Qun after the personal quest. A missed opportunity really in both fic and the game.

Mostly because I think it would be an interesting dynamic, especially since his relationship comes down to caring, meeting, and providing for the Inquisitor’s needs. But Bull, despite how good he is, he isn’t a mind reader. He won’t know when the Inquisitor is questioning the authenticity of their relationship unless it’s spoken. And while it would be angsty and could lead to some classic tropes and concerns on the Inquisitor’s side. I think from Bull’s side it would also be interesting.

If this relationship starts before Demands of the Qun, he’s struggling deep inside with his loyalties. He’s loyal and it’s easy to be when the Qun is out of sight and out of mind. He’s just writing letters back home, Leliana is monitoring them, things are structured and separate but his feelings are a mess when Demands of the Qun comes around because then they aren’t separate. There could be mutual stresses, anxiety, questions. The topic could be brought up, explored between the two, or be left unasked and unanswered. Inquisition only lasts a year and Bull wasn’t there for the entirety of it. So really, how strong is the trust in under a year? This is personally why I like saying main game takes four years in my personal canon because aside from traveling, healing, and the logistics of how fast news can travel; I’m a bit sketched out with the bared souls in under a year concept with Inquisition romances.

I think it would be great to see it more explored. I love to explore that aspect of the romance in my own writing. Coupled with how it could be a really slow burn or the electrifyingly fast relationship. I think about it a lot. How the Inquisitor’s own trauma, anxieties, or personality can impact how much of an issue him telling them he was ordered to get close to them.

[moontheoretist]

Damn, what I would do for more content.

You know what? I love Dragon Age games, but they are not without flaws. Some are more glaring than others, but the flaw I want to talk about today is... lack of background specific content. Ok, Bioware doesn’t want to invest time into origins anymore. Fine. I think it is a stupid choice, as origins are like sessions 0 in DnD, where you can playthrough your own background instead of come to session 1 with the fully written out character. And even then Origins were not exactly the same. Some facts were already pre-established, but it was fun to have them, to spend some time IN the place you come from, in order to immerse yourself in the character. I cannot stress how interesting it would be to actually see invasion of Lothering from Hawke’s perspective at the end of a very normal, very peaceful day, instead of skipping it and go straight to running away. Or how nice it would be to actually be part of Lavellan clan and see how much similar and different it was from the Dalish clan we could start in DAO. Or how Tal Vashoth’s mercenary life or Carta’s life looked before they headed to the Conclave. Speaking about Tal Vashoth, they are actually what sprung this post to be, as I just sat today and randomly thought “How nice it would be if Adaar and Bull could ACTUALLY discuss living outside the Qun after his character quest”. The game gives all the main characters some opportunities to say something about themselves, but most of those things are quickly shot down by companions, who literally in some cases tell you your own customs as if they knew better. Those opportunities that we were given, never felt good enough to me. They felt small, as if the game wanted us to forget that avatars are distinct characters in their own right and overwrite it with the Herold of Andraste. Small dialogues here and there, some hidden special options... to some it is enough. To me, it feels cheap. My Adaar, Lavellan, Trevelyan and Cadash could have SO MANY interesting conversations with companions, best if all were turned into cutscenes specifically about that one topic we were discussing, instead of always being just an afterthought, some addition to the other topic, more important topic, that we were discussing. Solas has probably the most conversations in which we can talk with him about the Dalish, but it is because he is an elven god, born in times long past. Most other companions are not given the same luxury to discuss topics of identity, beliefs and culture with us beyond some random conversations here and there in which, like I already said, we are never allowed to actively tell the companions that they are wrong about the customs they just told us about to our face.

If you ever were angry that you couldn’t just start a discussion with Dorian about Alienages and Tevinter Slavery, to draw similarities and differences, to talk about what the status of elves is derived from (human hatred and bias), or if you wanted to sit with Bull as Adaar and comfort him about not being part of the Qun, and tell him everything you know about how Tal Vashoth live, their life philosophy, where and how they find fulfillment without the shackles of the Qun, you will understand what I am talking about. I am aware there is content. I just think there should be more of it, that it should be treated as important too, to make players more willing to replay the game and try to play as every avatar they can, beyond some small hidden dialogue options. I want to be able to correct companions when they’re wrong, just like an elven Warden could with Leliana for example. I want more, and more meaningful conversations with companions. I want us to discuss topics, relate to one another. I want Carta Cadash to talk with Varric and reminisce about stuff they share, and argue or debate about stuff that make them different. I want to be able to tell Cassandra as Trevelyan that no, mages are not whining and asking for more than they deserve. I want to scold her for treating people who were prisoners all their lives as if they were a bunch of whiny brats who are unhappy that they do not have satin linens on their beds, instead of a group of people who actively feared they will be murdered in their sleep by Templars at Haven. Give me those disapprovals Cassandra, I don’t care! You need to hear that mages are not willingly standing in the fire. That being born in the fire is different from consciously stepping into it and staying there and complaining it is hot. I want to be able to talk to all the Chargers, beyond Krem. I want to be able to chat with Dalish about dalish clan differences and similarities, and what they discovered and where they went last with their clans as Lavellan. I want Adaar to compete with Chargers about which group of mercenaries was better, the Chargers or the group that Adaar originally belonged to. I want them to have a drinking match, screaming who defeated more opponents or survived more deadly encounters! Yeah, I know I want a lot. But it is just the world building that I feel is lacking. The connections forged in camaraderie, arguments and debates. I don’t understand players who skip dialogues, or whine about “cutscenes / story arcs being too much talk, not enough action”. I am sorry that the dialogues that are the foundation of RPGs and writing, are standing in the way of some mindless slaughter, dudebro. Maybe they should have picked a different game then, if RP in RPG is bothering them so much.

[dgcatanisiri]

Veilguard party members speculation.

I'd definitely call Harding a likely possibility. Though I wonder if, just because we're getting seven companions, if there won't still be something akin to the advisors as well - given we've had in Mass Effect ship-based crew and the Dragon Age advisors, it might be that the seven are the "gather your party and venture forth" group and there are another couple of faction representatives of some sort who remain at whatever our base ends up being. If that's the case, I might argue that Harding would be an option among them, given the way that Trespasser talked about finding people Solas didn't know.

In terms of factions, I'd wager that the safe bets are Wardens, Crows, and Tal-Vashoth, based on the things from Tevinter Nights - the Wardens uncovered "The Horror of Hormak," featuring some kind of creature mutating darkspawn and Wardens, with murals implying this had been originally done in the time of the ancient elves and that there were more of these creatures out there, there were multiple stories involving the Crows, to the point that "Eight Little Talons" centered on a power struggle among them (and, given that the Crows have been fairly silent since Zevran's failure to kill the Warden, I feel like they're due the narrative spotlight), and the Qunari HAVE to be involved - in one of the post-Trespasser comics, the Qunari invaded and took Qarinus, basically turning their cold war with Tevinter hot. But I don't think we'll have a Qun-loyal party member, given Bull's story in Inquisition, so I think we're going to see a Tal-Vashoth, someone outside the Qun yet still impacted by its actions.

I'd also expect to see a representative of either the Carta or Kal-Sharok, and I'd particularly like the latter, since we know so little about Kal-Sharok, and the War Table op "An Offer Of Help On Their Terms" implies that they're interested in things relating to where the darkspawn originated, which we know involved Corypheus and may well tie in to the Horror of Hormak as well. At the least, considering Kal-Sharok is supposed to be closer to Tevinter than the Ferelden-Orlais borders, they easily could be involved.

Also fairly safe to expect a Dalish faction, though, of course, given BioWare's track record with the Dalish, to say nothing of the fandom's general mistreatment of the elves and how they whine about "the elves get all the attention" (yeah right...), I do fear how that is going to end up being portrayed.

So that makes five factions right there, six if you want to call the Inquisition its own dedicated faction, but I'm not ready to commit to that just yet, since it may have "officially" disbanded - a member of Inquisition forces would probably be appearing to be part of another as a result. Considering Tevinter Nights also tried spinning the Venatori out into acting as "Tevinter supremacists" in the wake of Corypheus's defeat, I wouldn't be surprised if someone for *sigh* Dorian's Lucerni faction appeared, to argue the "redemption" of Tevinter and that rot that I don't believe in. If skull-flame head person in that concept art speculated to be of the PC and full party is an actual party member, though, I'd wager they're Nevarran in origin, probably from somewhere in the Mortalitasi group. That would cover the seven factions right there.

Though, again, if there are any advisors, they could easily represent a faction without them being in the party - I could just as easily see a Lucerni advisor instead of a party member, for example.

[jzargo]

@bees-bees-fear

I'm not even sure where to begin with this but I'll try.

"Who is to say it's incorrect" I don't know how to tell you, again, that generalizing a whole fucking race is a bad thing to do. The Qunari - all of them, those living under the Qun and those living free like the Tal Vashoth - are a massively varied people with different passions and desires. Sten himself points this out in Dragon Age: Origins when you ask him to describe the Qunari. "People are not simple. They cannot be summarized for easy reference in the manner of: 'The elves are a lithe, pointy eared people who excel at poverty.'" This is exactly what Solas does here.

"He's right about the Dalish" actually he's wrong about them too! While Solas does have information about the origins of Dalish people (information, I might add, that he refuses to share unless romanced, so it's hardly fair for him to judge the Dalish people for not knowing something he refuses to tell them) he, again, MASSIVELY oversimplifies what the Dalish have become. This is a running theme with Solas.

"It's a made up region and religion and economy" yeah and Solas is a made-up character who says bigoted things about the fantasy races that exist in the fantasy world he lives in. Are you saying then that the Orlesians who constantly call your character either "knife-ear" as an elf or "ox" as qunari aren't being racist because elves and Qunari aren't real? Like, no, none of these things are real, but they're real within the space of the game which means we need to engage with it in that manner. The Orlesians are being prejudiced and racist and bigoted, and so is Solas in this moment.

"It's like calling communism a cult" I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say with this one actually. While the Qun is also a sociopolitical movement, the Qun dictates every single moment of life for the Qunari. It says what job they'll have for the rest of their life, what role they'll play in society, who they'll breed with, and harshly reeducates people who stray from this purpose. Communism…isn't that? It might be what the far-right think communism is, but there's no real comparison between the two. Meanwhile the kind of large-scale control the Qun exerts over its members is in-line with what cults do to control their members.

"Vampires aren't in a cult for drinking blood, they just do that." That's���.that's a totally different thing? Qunari don't have an instinctual desire to create an oppressive regime. What are you saying.

"They're a fantasy race mixed with dragons blood" "Even Cole admits you're holding something back" Even IF Qunari do have some deep, instinctual desires relating back to their probable connection to dragons, they are still a varied and intelligent people and to treat them like ticking time bombs who can explode at a moment's notice is wrong. Bull is probably one of the most measured, collected, and restrained companions you have in Inquisition: while it's true that he likes fighting, I think looking at his conversations with Solas alone is enough to prove that he is a man in control of himself. Solas constantly attacks and berates Bull, and Bull always responds in a measured manner. Even after leaving the Qun.

"We constantly battle splinter cells causing problems" we do that ONCE in all 3 games: in Dragon Age 2, where the Arishok being camped on Kirkwall's doorstep has caused MASSIVE unrest. The other times we're fighting organized attacks (and this only happens twice: once in Dragon Age 2 when the Arishok attacks Kirkwall, and then again in Tresspasser when Solas has incited the Qunar). We fight Templars more than we do Qunari.

"Boiling it down to cults and bigots is reductive" I'm actually not just boiling it down to these things. I recognize that there is nuance in all of these discussions to be had. I actually like Solas as a character and think he's incredibly interesting and well-written! However, I do think he also has some massively over-simplified views of the Qunari and Dwarves in particular. He has a very singular world-view that he refuses to engage with or re-examine - which is why he's an antagonist. If he grew and learned to see the world as a complex but worthwhile place, he wouldn't be trying to tear down the Veil to bring back the old world he thinks is better.

Solas is a massively complex character, and I think you're doing him a great disservice by insisting that he's right about this. Solas is complex and interesting because he is, on more than one occasion, wrong, but refuses to see that. He's too prideful to see that he's wrong. His name literally means pride! That's his fatal flaw!!

And you know, it's possible the Qun did grow out of a genuine desire to help its members find a purpose. The Chantry also didn't start out as an oppressive theocratic dictatorship (Andraste freed the elves, after all), but both, somewhere along the line, became warped by people seeking to utilize these structures for power. Elves remain oppressed and have been excluded from the Chant of Light (unless Leliana is made Divine), and the Qun is now more of a cage than it is a guide.

Dragon Age presents a complex world, and reducing aspects of it down to "The Qunari are savages, they need the Qun, Solas is always right" are oversimplifications that I genuinely don't think is supported by the text.

i enjoy solas as a character but anytime i see someone start talking about how kind he is and lamenting about 'why do people misunderstand himmm' i want to shove these screenshots at them. he's a bigot, jan.

[spainkitty]

Shout out to @sillyliterature for tagging me in things!! I love being tagged. Also, I really love and am obsessed with my Lanil (Surana) Lavellan oc. While about 80k of her as the Inquisitor has been written, I've gone down a rabbit hole of "What if Lanil had stayed in the Circles and joined the official Mage Rebellion instead?" so here we go 🤗 My amgry gorl~ living in my head rent free~ I might do this again from my handers/fenhanders fic because I know sillylit loves Anders as much as I do.

So basically this is like Find The Word, but with a phrase instead, or if you don’t have it, something with a similar vibe. The phrase is: This can't be real.

My phase: I don't quite have that in this fic, but I did have "You can't seriously [...]"

.

“You can’t seriously be going without me?” Lanil demanded. Fiona’s mouth twitched, her dark eyes amused. Lanil immediately looked away, scowling as heat suffused her cheeks.

“I am more than capable of travelling to Val Royeaux alone, although I will be taking a few mages with me, if that will assuage your concern,” Fiona said at last. “I do not want to seem as if I’m bringing a fight with me. Pardon me for saying so, Lanil, but you walk into a room like you’re walking into a fight.

“Can you blame me after this year?” Lanil muttered. “So, the Herald… are they really a qunari?”

“She is. I suppose the term is Tal-Vashoth, if the reports are true and she is not of the Qun. It may be impertinent to ask in the same breath I ask for aid,” Fiona said dryly.

Lanil smirked and shrugged. “I doubt a real Qun-loving qunari would let themself be called the Herald of Andraste.”

“I’m still not sure if this is a good idea,” Fiona said with a quiet sigh. “We’ve already seen what little the Chantry is able to do for us." She waved in the vague direction of… out there, where, yes, rebels that refused to join Redcliffe tore up the countryside, but also where roving packs of violent Templars wandered and cut down any mage or mage sympathizer, violent or not, they happened to see. “And both the Right and Left Hand of the Divine are heading this Inquisition.”

“The late Divine. But... Connor did say Arl Teagan told him that a former Templar is their Commander, too,” Lanil said with a grimace. Fiona’s lips pursed slightly, eyes narrowing. “A Templar from Kirkwall.”

Fiona pressed fingers to her temples. Lanil, as always, couldn’t help but be impressed by Fiona’s control. She herself would have at least cursed out loud by now. Lanil wondered if Fiona had always been able to do that, or was it something she made herself learn?

“Perhaps Linnea is right,” the Grand Enchanter whispered. Her eyes caught on the warrior statuette and she took it in hand again, rolling it between her palms. “How many more refugees have come this week?”

“About a dozen, and maybe three are actually capable of helping defend the keep. The only mages with any sort of combat skill are out in the fucking hills making it worse for everyone. We need to stick together or we’re all going to be hunted and cut down like nugs at this point,” Lanil snarled, lightning crackling at her fingertips.

“Or perhaps we’ll let you loose on the Templars and apostates alike so you might glower them into submission,” Fiona teased. Her voice was weary, quiet, but her dark eyes gleamed. Lanil glared at the nearest wall and crossed her arms over her chest. Her mouth was twitching, though, and her heart felt lighter. “The general opinion? Any increase in Tevinter sympathies?”

Lanil groaned and rolled her eyes upwards. She knew Fiona bringing up Linnea didn’t bode well. “Yes, all right, there are more people pushing for sending word to Tevinter, but it’s definitely not the majority. Linnea is two seconds away from running for the hills and going staff-happy on the countryside herself, don’t listen to her, Grand Enchanter. We don’t need them. They’re slavers.”

“And so many of us are elves…” Fiona frowned. “Our choices are a heretical Chantry organization and a mage-friendly slave nation. We’re not even sure either would help.”

“You need to get the Arl to contact the King,” Lanil said flatly. Fiona’s eyes flickered towards her and away. “He put us here. He promised us aid.”

“He promised us shelter. He did not promise us soldiers.”

“Then, ask for them! Fuck the Chantry, or Inquisition, whatever, and fuck the Vints, too. Do you think the King and Queen would give us Redcliffe just to let the Templars burst in and slaughter us!? The King obviously cares a little. Wynne was his advisor for years, Orzammar has its own Circle and the King and Queen refused to break the alliance with King Bhelen to support an Exalted March, and Anders…” Fiona raised a hand to stop her, but Lanil barrelled on anyway, “The Warden-Commander, King Alistair’s well-known friend and advisor, made Anders a Grey Warden. She protected him! Not only that, she’s an elf. They appointed an elf a Bann of the Denerim Alienage. They care about mages and elves both. The King is our best bet and you--”

“Surana, be silent.”

Lanil’s mouth snapped shut. It wasn’t often Fiona used that tone of voice, and it never failed to send prickles down Lanil’s spine. Instantaneous obedience. Silence fell hard between them and fire crackled in the fireplace. Fiona’s fingers curled around the statuette she held, enveloping it in her fist.

“Let us see how the Herald responds to my invitation first. I’ll return from Val Royeaux as swiftly as I am able,” Fiona said decisively. There was no arguing with that tone. Lanil inhaled and exhaled roughly through her nose. Fiona smiled and crossed the room. Gently, she cupped Lanil’s face in her hands, dark eyes tracing over Lanil’s features and meeting her stormy grey glare. “Mon petite tempête, you will take care of our people while I am away.”

“Of course,” she grumbled.

[vaguely-concerned]

So there’s some stuff I’ve been mulling over recently about Iron Bull’s characterization in regards to anger. Bull is so scared of his own rage (partly because of the things it made him do on Seheron, but then that was also after like a decade of pressure cooker trauma building up under it and circumstances that would be beyond anyone to handle healthily) and the way he thinks that uncontrolled and unleashed it would be catastrophic both to himself and everyone he cares about. But in actuality, from what we get to see of it… Bull’s rage is most shown as being incredibly cold and calculating. Dangerous not for being untamed and out of control and aimless, but for being kept pushed down and in the shadows while covered by amicable lies – that he can make himself dead around it until it’s allowed to come out in a very focused deadly way, no chaos about it. That he can remove himself from himself to the point where he can treat it like a tool instead of an emotion or even a real part of him. (His uh what you might call personal rage, at least, the battle rage thing he’s figured out how to tap into might be different. But honestly even that seems extremely deliberately focused and harnessed, I think it follows the same internal ‘rules’ as the rest.)

It’s also notable for being one of the few things that’ll make him drop the bro-y genial mask for a little while and make you go ‘haha. Oh shit.’ when you hear it. Just as an example of that realization in action -- there’s a comment he has innnnnnn I think the quest with the old Tevinter prison in the Western Approach? It’s one where you’re fighting Venatori, anyway, where he essentially goes ‘Hey. Do you know who I am?’ with a grim satisfaction that might suggest he thinks there is a decent chance they would, and that it would rightfully scare the crap out of them. It’s at times like that you glance over at your huge fun friend and go ‘…oh yeah you did hold down an active war zone as the head of the secret police for like a decade huh’. (There are in all likelihood reports about Bull in the Magisterium archives, now that I think about it. …okay having Dorian find those, recognize him through the descriptions and read through them sounds like a great fic premise actually please someone do something with that haha)

To be clear I do think he is genuinely kind and laidback (in the live and let live sense, he is also a stealth control freak lol) and curious by nature, the way he’s put together at this point of his life is more of a war wound than an inherent trait and it gets better when he goes Tal-Vashoth and much, much worse if he stays with the Qun. I’m uh not entirely sure what I’m trying to say here overall, so I’m just going to idly think out loud about the places in the game where I’ve noticed this and see what happens (with the warning that this will get real sad):

- The talks you have with him after sacrificing the Chargers. Especially obvious/prominent (I think they’re setting up the pattern so you’ll pick up on the subtler ones that follow) in the first one, where he has a perfectly civil professional conversation with you, turns away with a smile as you walk off and then promptly punches a wall. He is heavier/more deadened during the one where he’s scattering the ashes, but oooooh you can sense just how angry he is with you as well if you pay any attention at all. Verily, one of those ‘yeah gee I don’t know what he really wanted you to do during Demands of the Qun, impossible to figure out, there are no clues until Trespasser, whomst could’ve ever predicted’ things lol

He’s performing honesty with you in other ways as a ‘peace offering’/reassurance, like telling you how ‘The Iron Bull’ was just a role and everything and ‘all cards are on the table here now tho bas boss ahaha dooon’t you worry’, but how angry he is also feels both… he is very very angry with the Inquisitor, and with himself, but it also feels like old traumatic anger is resurfacing because some is towards the Qun (and its demands on everything you are, think and feel) itself as well, and he’s well and truly trapped in it for good at that stage? But that’s happening very deep inside and behind closed doors because you’ve shown him how much that isn’t allowed to exist once and for all? IDK, a lot of Iron Bull comes down to Vibes because he is, as established many a time, a huge fucking liar perhaps not even always of his own conscious volition (affectionate but also sad)

- Especially his romance scenes if you sacrifice the Chargers. There’s this undertone of icy resentment and contempt that occasionally peeks through if you pick certain options, and it’s fucking terrifying haha, I can’t even imagine what it must be like to play that version of his romance route blind, I think the sense of ominous foreboding that seemingly doesn’t come to anything until Trespasser finally hits you like a bag of bricks would um kill me.

There’s also a separate horrible layer of resentment/anger/hurt I can imagine there where like… imagine spending all those years with someone who says they love you, and they don’t even see you. They take the easy comfortable lie you give them at face value and don’t dig into it any deeper. “How could you claim to love me when you don’t even see me or understand who I am” type disdain/resentment. The Inquisitor doesn’t realize it wasn’t real until the very end, but he knows the whole time. That sounds… so desperately lonely. Like he is deliberately setting it up to be that way, he’s the one in control of it and he’s the one continuing it in bad faith and with bad intentions – but it’s still so sad on his end too, especially when you know how it could have turned out otherwise, that it’s not at all because he doesn’t have the capacity for real honest love that it happened like this.

I imagine some of this holds true for his relationship with Dorian on the bad route too, except with less active anger and resentment because the Inquisitor is specifically ‘responsible’ for the death of the Chargers within the very fucked up understanding of agency Bull has developed, so that relation has that particular unhappy spice added in. With Dorian I almost imagine more of a, uh… ‘what could I have been’ morbid fascination (or on another level, ‘phew I could have ended up that lonely and disconnected and removed from my purpose, that was a close call’ to convince himself he ‘chose’ the right thing), since they’re pretty direct narrative foils/mirrors of each other, and maybe a sort of condescending but still mildly, absent-mindedly sympathetic “Well, it’s not hard to pass a counterfeit off on someone who’s never known the real thing, easy mistake to make buddy”. The same forces of attraction are there even though Bull is in a fractured state on that route.

(Actually, in a strange way I think betraying Dorian might trouble him very little, because in what you can puzzle together from what Bull says to and about him you get that Dorian reminds him a lot of himself – and there’s no one Bull dehumanizes as badly as himself. So extending that same logic to Dorian is ironically easier, even if there might be some genuine affection there on the surface? Their dynamic is very much ‘Recognition of the self through the other (affectionate, life-affirming) on the Tal-Vashoth route and ‘Recognition of the self through the other (oh shit oh fuck oh my god that’s so fucked uppppp I need an adult)’ on the Qun-loyal one to me honestly everything about Qun-loyal Iron Bull is a little bit of a horror story)

- When you talk to him at the Winter Palace. Bull clearly finds being underestimated eminently useful professionally (and by his own admission even kind of gets off on revealing that actually… he was smarter than you all along right before he fucks you up haha), but even he is chafing under the prolonged open insult of being treated like he’s barely capable of sentience. (btw shoutout to the country of Orlais for being so fucking godawful they manage to grate on Iron Bull, who’s hardly what one might think of as thin skinned that way lmao. Really pissing Bull off personally is kind of an achievement in assholery.)

This one is also interesting to me in that he does quickly slip the jovial bro-y mask back up to cover it, but it sort of… settles weird and slightly wrong on top of the coldness in his voice, I always found it subtly uncanny (in a very enjoyable way don’t get me wrong).

- During the betrayal scene in Trespasser, which I think shows off a) that his anger is cold and disdainful as an ice age more than an exploding volcano lol (‘nothing personal bas’ my ASS) and b) the way the Qun fucks with people’s perceptions of their own inner life. I call EXTREME bullshit on the idea that the entire race is just so naturally ~*unstable and destructive*~ that they need the Qun as a stabilizing influence, because if anything we’ve seen repeatedly that it’s the extreme repression and rigidity of the Qun that drive people to instability in a multitude of different ways when the Qun comes up short against the real world, or when it simply blames them for their own suffering, leaving them no other recourse than to crack.

His capacity to compartmentalize and defer (cough cough repress until it almost chokes him) his rage is infinitely more dangerous (and harmful to himself psychologically in the long term, I suspect) than any kind of free and healthy expression of anger ever could be. The Qun has left him so fractured and at odds with himself he finds it hard to imagine a way it wouldn’t be inherently harmful, wouldn’t lead him down the path to madness that he almost fell into before, and so he pushes it down and only lets it out once he’s ordered to – because his anger doesn’t even belong to him. It’s a tool for the Qun, just like all the rest of him. And that is so fucked uuuuuup help – I think in his mind it removes responsibility he fears he can’t be trusted with from his hands before he hurts someone he loves, but it also eradicates agency and ownership of a self, and means he can’t do even things he really, desperately wants, like saving the Chargers. Anger is, at the very core, the ability to say No, to set a boundary between yourself and the world to stop it from hurting you. It can spin into different and harmful directions from there, but that’s its basic function, and that’s why the Qun can’t abide it, because as a system it does not want people to even have the concept of ‘no’ – since that’s one of the basic steps towards having a stable independent self. It’s just… it’s bad times!!!! especially since it has harnessed the fact that he is very smart and doesn’t want to hurt people he loves against him, to keep him under the Qun’s control even within his own mind. (Also with the betrayal in Trespasser it does very much seem like he’s been basically waiting to be told to a) try to kill you and b) die (because I don’t think he ever thought he’d win that fight), doesn’t it. Video games are a fun hobby that will not absolutely obliterate your heart lol)

I think the only time he gets really really angry without this cold hard dead-eyed thing setting in is if he’s Tal-Vashoth and you take him with you on the last scramble through the Eluvians to Solas as you fight your way through the Qunari there. “Is that all you’ve got?! I lived through Seheron, you little shits!”, which sounds like just as much hurt as anger to me, both of them in a mix. Also always has me a bit like… ‘yesss express yourself buddy I’m so proud of you!!!!! :’)’ haha, he’s working it out, he’s getting there! Most of his anger that isn't rage as such also seems to me to be more anger masking fear, like the stuff in the Fade. He's seen a lot of stuff to be scared about in his time, I can see how that would happen.

In short get this poor man whatever the Thedas equivalent of some fucking THERAPY might be or failing that some hot cocoa with his boys

[notebooks-and-laptops]

The Iron Bull/Dorian Pavus Fic Recs

Hello! I have now read over a hundred Bull/Dorian fics and would love to share my favourites with y’all (I’ll probably make similar fic recs for other DA pairings eventually). Some of these are criminally under-kudos’d or lack comments, so if you can please leave the authors some! They definitely deserve it! Also this got pretty long so I’m putting most of it under a cut!

Ouroboros by maliwanhellfire (M, 8K)

“So, he claims to be a time traveller,” Cullen said, slowly and with obvious disbelief.

“Would anyone be able to tell me what day it is?” Dorian asked.

“He's obviously a spy,” Cassandra replied.

“I hope it's not the third,” Dorian muttered.

Dorian has been living through his own personal Groundhog Year and he's finally decided to tell everybody. It doesn't matter though, this run's a wash anyway.

[this is literally my favourite Adoribull fic of all time. Like. I think about it constantly please please read it]

Unshakeable Bonds by Elthadriel (M, 7K)

When a spell convinces Bull that Dorian is a danger to the Inquisition, Krem is forced to try and keep Bull from killing Dorian until he can dispel the magic.

[if I’m in the mood for angst this is my go-to fic. I ADORE Krem protecting Dorian from Bull because Bull loves Dorian, and Krem would never let Bull destroy himself like that. It’s just. Yes. Yes to all of it]

O M'anam (and the rest of this series) by FoxNonny (T, 9K - series becomes E)

Mahanon wants nothing more than for the men he's in love with to realize that he's in love with them, and hopes that a long journey to the Hissing Wastes might help sort things out between them.

Getting thrown off a cliff was not part of his plan.

[okay so technically this one is Bull/Dorian/Inquisitor but GUYS ITS LITERALLY PERFECT ITS THE BEST DRAGON AGE SERIES IVE EVER READ IM OBSESSED WITH THE CHARACTER DYNAMICS I KNOW IM A SLUT FOR POLY BUT PLEASE READ THIS ONE - you won’t regret it]

Dark and Deep by triedunture (T, 9k)

Traveling the Deep Roads reveals the Iron Bull's fear of small, dark places. And other things.

[what can I say, I’m a sucker for fics where they get together before they jump into bed with each other because it just...it means there’s been a LOT of pining and is just a fun and different dynamic for these two]

Sucker Punch by  annikora (M,3K)

In which the Iron Bull discovers that Dorian isn’t using his watchword because he doesn’t believe Bull would actually stop.

[of all the fics that explore Dorian, rough sex and watch words, this one is the best one. Because Dorian being surprised Bull would actually stop? And the way Bull loves him through this and just...everything about it. Yeah, it’s really, really well done and they’re both so in character the whole time] 

How to Share a Bed Without Killing Each Other: a Love Story by electricshoebox (T, 7K)

Sleeping together is all well and good (very, very good) but sleeping together is... well, another beast entirely.

[the development in this one of their relationship and them falling in love? absolute chiefs kiss perfect brilliant well done]

No Patron Saint of Silent Restraint by electricshoebox (T, 1K)

He's Tal-Vashoth now. Tal-Va-fucking-shoth. Dorian comes to him in the aftermath.

[Oh YES. I always come back to this one when I want some Dorian/Bull hurt/comfort. Especially because BULL is the one getting comforted and the centrality of Krem/Bulls relationship and how that grounds Bull and Dorian getting it and just yes yes yes] 

under me you quite so new by Margo_Kim (M, 3K)

Morning sex is a thing they do now that Dorian doesn't leave, and it turns out maybe they do more as well.

Bull is not an idiot. He tries not to be anyway, though there's something about Dorian that makes him a little stupider, a little lazier than usual. Dorian's prone to decadence when he lets himself feel safe enough to be, and maybe it's just the novelty of Dorian being decadent with him that makes Bull indulge.

[it’s soft it’s soft it’s soft]

Say I Do, Say I Don't by Orphan_Account (E, 8K)

Dorian and Bull have never been together at all, until they get married. Will they accidentally, awkwardly fall in love?

Well, no. Because Dorian is too smooth for that.

[this one is CRIMINALLY under-kudo’d like it’s amazing it’s one of the absolute best fics for these two and if I need to sell you any more? Bull calls Magister Pavus ‘Dad’ and it causes him to faint]

Ad Exilium by Jen_814 (T, 8K)

“What would happen,” Dorian asked speculatively, “if Ben-Hassrath told you to kill me?”

Bull grunted, apparently in amusement. “Oh, look at you. Thinking you’re so important you’d merit an assassination order.”

--

The Inquisition periodically sends Dorian to back up Iron Bull and the Chargers. It doesn't always go well.

[the chargers adopt Dorian! This is another one of those criminally under-kudo’s’d ones and it’s so well written it deserves so much more love]

Behind Closed Doors by homsantoft (tofsla) (M, 4K)

In another reality, the Iron Bull was loyal to the Qun. It's not until a dead Qunari is found in the Winter Palace that he really lets himself think about what that would have meant.

[it’s angsty guys, it’s sad and it’s angsty, but it DOES have a happy ending and it IS an excellent exploration of the Iron Bull and his character]

To Imagine the Sun by  homsantoft (tofsla) (M, 6K)

An assault on a Venatori base turns more complicated than expected, and Dorian and Bull, separated from the group and with Dorian in no position to fight, have to try and hold out until help arrives.

[one thing y’all should know about me? I WILL read every love confession tag in any ship I’m into on ao3. Because it’s my jam. And this is one of the best love confession tagged fics for these two]

like a winter hath my absence been by  kaffas (hoopoe) (M, 3K)

"'No, darling, you are not Hissrad. Not anymore.' It is another kaar-hissera, another dream that has yet to pass, but it leaves the Iron Bull wide awake, his breath coming in quick pants as the asala-taar threatens behind his ribs. It feels like saar-hissra. It feels like the aftermath of a nightmare.

A man's voice, sighing intimately, ardently. The shape of those words around a Tevinter accent."

The Iron Bull joins the Inquisition.

[this one is a little trippy, but in the best of ways. Bull dreams about the future, before it happens. Also, if you haven’t realised it yet, Bull and Krem’s friendship is very important to me, so I appreciate that this fic has a lot of good content between the two of them as well]

Speechless by Kaira_Angel (E, 7K)

“You’re speechless.” Bull points out. “That’s all it takes, someone giving a crap about you.”

Tevinter never did lend itself to delicacy. Dorian learned to adapt.

[break-ups and get togethers and Bull giving a damn about Dorian and dorian actually not knowing how to deal with that at all - I adore fics like this, and this one does it really well!]

Tenere by AuditoryCheesecake (G, 2K)

Dorian keeps things, sometimes. Silly, sentimental things. 

[what can I say, I’m a slut for Dorian is secretly an absolute sap with his friends and loved ones]

Love (and other Southern Follies) by  Acephalous (M, 12K)

Despite his best efforts, Dorian Pavus has fallen in love with the Iron Bull.

[I mean...how can you not enjoy something with THAT premise? Dorian falling in love with Bull and not thinking its requited but it is is absolutely my jam]

Everything Has Grown by Stardropdream (T, 1K)

Dorian waits and he waits and he waits for the flowers to burst from his throat.

[SO - maybe I have a little bit of a thing for hanahaki disease recently, when it’s got a happy ending - and I love how Dorian realises Bull loves him too in this one]

Selfish by December Dragon (T, 3K)

“You’re impossible,” he snapped without any fire, choosing to preen rather than look at that far-too-pleased grin.

“So you keep saying, but I promise I’m not just a really lucid fantasy come to life.”

“More like a nightmare…” Dorian still made no move to extricate himself again. He did, however, sigh. “Well, you now know all the risks, so you can now make the informed mistake of trying out what’s sure to be a mess.”

“Messy battles are the best,” Bull mused, fingers grazing idly up and down a tan arm. “They’re the most worth it.”

-

Neither the Iron Bull nor Dorian Pavus are particularly well-read on what it means to be in a relationship. Or to confront having deeper feelings than what their respective societies deemed acceptable. Somehow, they're just the perfect match - if they can only talk it out like mature adults first.

[once again, this one is just one that hits the spot because its just them...getting together, and working out what that means when they’ve not got much of a point of reference for these things]

Many Happy Returns by Penknife (T, 1k)

An undead horse would be a romantic gesture, but it would also be an undead horse. That's the drawback.

[I just really, really, really like the picture of Bull giving Dorian an undead horse - and that he’d even be willing to!] 

Spiced Cocoa by Mozzarella (M, 4K)

Dorian perked up when the scent of warm cocoa hit his nostrils, and something familiar yet out of place. He stared down at the cup and saw the lightest sprinkling of red on the surface, which another careful sniff revealed to Dorian a hint of the hotter, red spice of chili powder.

“You’re mad,” Dorian said, though he couldn’t deny he was intrigued.

(In which Dorian and Bull share Krem's special curry, spicy hot cocoa, and feelings)

[this is one of the first fics I read for these two, and so I view it as sort a classic despite the fact that it is criminally under kudo’s’d]

Distant Smoke on the Horizon by  zythepsary (M, 7K)

Bull falls in love. Slowly.

[very much what it says on the tin, but like I said SUCKER for them falling in love with each other and that being explored fully] 

Elevation to Move Forward by santanico (M, 2K)

Dorian is insecure and worried Bull will eventually break off whatever it is they're doing, so he plans to move in with Bull without asking. Because talking about feelings? That's beyond Dorian Pavus.

[DUDE I think about this concept so often. Dorian just...moving in, without telling anyone, because of COURSE he would do that] 

Either Way, I'm Here by Addyrobin (T, 1K)

The Iron Bull seems to prefer that no one sees who he is beneath his mask. He is a big, hulking beast of a Qunari who thrives on murder and sex, who can and will drink anyone under the table, a creature made of nothing but indulgences - yes, that's what he wants people to think. But Dorian knows better.

[I just think we should have more Bull/Dorian hurt/comfort fics where Bull is the one getting comforted]

[crossdressingdeath]

screamingbuttgoblin

Re that Bull line you mentioned, I can't find a clip but there's one transcript site that has it - https://genitivichronicles.wordpress.com/2022/04/23/tales-of-iron-bull/#doc241 and pick tal-vashoth option 1

Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. From the site:

Inquisitor: You did. And no matter what happens, if we don’t make it out of this…

Iron Bull: Katoh. Stop. I can’t… We’re coming out of this alive. Together.

The Inquisitor looks away for a moment. The Iron Bull reaches out and pushes them back into bed.

Iron Bull: I love you, too.

Okay now I really want to find a clip of this, because I have got to know how exactly that line is delivered. Tragically that's the romance cutscene that glitched when I romanced Bull last and I didn't have a save near it anyway or I'd do it myself.

It's moments like this where you really remember that while Bull has had a lot of casual sexual relationships this is the first romantic relationship he's ever had. This is new to him! He's having many emotions about this that he isn't used to! And then Quiz mentions the possibility of them dying and he can't deal with it. It's actually a very similar energy to Dorian being noticeably more against a romanced Quiz drinking from the Well: this is something new and precious and he can't bear the thought of losing it so soon. And I really do love how the only time the 'katoh' actually gets used it's got nothing to do with sex; Bull just can't bring himself to discuss the odds of the person he loves dying. Which, again, makes Trespasser just so much worse. Thanks, Bioware, for that. Although I do love Bull taking that as a declaration of love, based on him saying he loves Quiz too.

Also: Quiz looking away when Bull insists that they're both coming out of this alive fits really well with my headcanon that Quiz knows from the start that the Anchor will ultimately kill them (either by instinct or because Solas told them). It would be hard to realize that the man you love can't even discuss your possible death in the abstract while knowing that you're not going to come out of this alive, after all.

Dorian: I don't want to risk losing you to a well.

God, Dorian is so aware of the odds that his romance will end badly that it's genuinely just incredibly tragic. Like, his first assumption when you start the romance is that it'll be a one time thing or a casual arrangement, because that's what his dalliances have always been! And once he accepts that Quiz really does love him and want to stay with him, he becomes just so aware of the odds that Quiz is going to die as part of the whole world-saving thing. Which pops up in a couple romances (side note, apparently there's dialogue in Bull's romance where he'll safeword out of a discussion about Quiz dying????? Apparently that's a thing????? I have never seen that dialogue but I've read that it's a thing, if anyone's got a link give it please I would love to confirm the existence of this delicious angst for myself), but it's consistent in Dorian's in a way I don't think it is in the other romances. He's terrified of losing the man who very quickly becomes the love of his life. Which makes Trespasser just so much worse! And then you've also got this:

Dorian: Festis bei umo canavarum. If you don't come through this, I swear I'll kill you.

This shows up after Quiz drinks from the Well if he romanced Dorian (I think only if he romanced Dorian, thinking about it I don't believe I've ever brought Dorian with me to the Well if not romanced), and I think he may be the only LI with a line like this? I know Bull doesn't have one. I love the "If you die I'll kill you" thing at all times, so obviously I love it here. And "Festis bei umo canavarum" is a Tevene phrase that comes up in Fenris's romance back in DA2; he translates it as "You will be the death of me" (although apparently the general sense in common use is closer to "I'm completely fucked"). I just... I really love the dynamic at play in Dorian's romance where he's just so scared for and worried about Quiz all the time because he can't bear the thought of losing him. Obviously all the LIs worry, but Dorian is so open about it, it's amazing.

[tired-fandom-ndn]

I’d like to hear more Hawkeishok feels…

I've been reading a lot of arishawke fics lately (or at least a lot compared to how many there are lmao) and it's really got me thinking about the implications. Most of the fics are noncon/dubcon or one-night stands, but there's a few complete ones where the Arishok becomes Tal-Vashoth and even fewer where Hawke becomes a Viddathari.

I actually really enjoy fics where he becomes Tal-Vashoth, but it's just such a difficult concept to tackle without making him massively out of character (or diving right into some islamophobic territory). But when it IS well written, you can really get into him being torn between duty and love, his culture and community and people vs the person he wants in a way that his culture doesn't allow, and the consequences of giving all that up to stay in a hostile land just to be with someone else.

The Arishok is a title held by the highest ranking military commander in the Qun. That's something that requires not just dedication and strength, but also absolute certainty in his place in the Qun. The Arishok leaving the Qun would be a HUGE deal and would require something that completely shakes the foundations of everything he knows, makes him rethink his place in the Qun and his dedication to his role. The idea of him falling in love with Hawke, the Basalit-an who keeps challenging him, being the thing that makes him take that leap? God, I'm OBSESSED with it.

The other scenario is Hawke becoming Viddathari, converting to the Qun and following the Qunari to Par Vollen. I don't actually have much to say about this, because I don't know much about the Qun! I've read one fic that actually really gets into it (on the DA kinkmeme), where Hawke doesn't just convert to be closer to the Arishok but because she genuinely found comfort in the Qun and wanted to be part of it. I think this is a really interesting concept to explore, Hawke finding comfort and strength in the strict roles and self-assuredness of the Qun, something that I think would really resonate with the experiences of a lot of real converts to a variety of religions.

What would happen after that though? Would Hawke and the Arishok end whatever relationship they had? Would they try to find places for each other in their lives within the rules of the Qun? Would Hawke struggle with how much relationships differ in the Qun? Would they still feel drawn to each other no matter how much they're both dedicated to the Qun? When they finally reach Par Vollen, how would they handle it if Hawke is assigned to a different role instead of being a warrior under the Arishok's command?

And then there's the scenario I've been thinking about. The Arishok cannot and will not leave the Qun, no matter how drawn he is to Hawke, and Hawke would gladly join the Qun if he asked. Except that they're a mage. And there's a lot of variations in Hawkes, but I can't imagine any who would allow themself to be made a Saarebas. And if the Arishok truly loves them, could he even bring himself to ask them to make that choice? Could he justify wanting them to be collared and silenced? Would a Saarebas Hawke even be the warrior he loves anymore?

My own Hawke, for this specific AU and ship, would never let herself be chained or controlled like that. Even being sent to the Circle is a fate worse than death to her, and she's made it very clear to all her companions and to Carver that if she's ever made Tranquil, she wants them to kill her immediately. Becoming a Saarebas would destroy her and no matter how much she loves the Arishok, she won't resign herself to that fate.

So, they're in a stasis. The Arishok won't leave the Qun and she can't join him and they're both too in love to stop seeing each other, even with the guillotine hanging over their heads, knowing that their relationship is on a timer. It's such a miserable situation for them both.

[lavellander]

hello im feeling extra “touch the stove”-y today so. i was looking for any dialogue where solas just straight up lies and (of what i could find online/transcribed, obv) i didnt find anything that was 100% untrue. he’ll completely avoid the question, change the subject, give part of the truth, etc etc etc, but nothing was just Entirely A Lie

what really gets me is that there’s a handful of convos where someone infers something from what solas says, and he will even point out that he didn’t directly say that. like, he tells people how to see through his shit, lmao

here is an embarrassingly long ass list of examples, all sorted by what kind of not-lying he’s doing lol, just bc i am unhinged<3

*note that some of these are cut from longer bits of dialogue or have been split up from one conversation into different categories*

literally just Not Answering The Question lol

Dorian: How much “will” do they have? They’re amorphous constructs of the Fade. Solas: Hmm.

Dorian: Solas, have I offended you? Solas: If you have, why would it concern you?

Dorian: Solas, what is this whole look of yours about? Solas: I’m sorry? Dorian: No, that outfit is sorry. What are you supposed to be, some kind of woodsman? Dorian: Is it a Dalish thing? Don’t you dislike the Dalish? Or is it some kind of statement? Solas: No.

Dorian: Let me get this straight, Solas. Dorian: You’re an apostate – neither Dalish nor city elf – who lived alone in the woods studying spirits. Solas: Is that a problem for you?

Solas: [has a whole tactical moment about the red jennies lmao] Sera: Where d’you get all this, then? Solas: Do you wish to be unnerved by another tale of my explorations of the Fade? Or do you wish to learn something?

Vivienne: You must be pleased with what was revealed at the Temple of Mythal, Solas. Solas: Why should those ruins please me, Enchanter?

changing the subject before he backs himself into a corner

Gatt: I don’t see any tattoos, but you’re carrying a staff. Are you from a Chantry Circle? Solas: No. And I would prefer not to discuss it.

Solas: I find the fall of the dwarven lands confusing. Varric: What’s so confusing about endless darkspawn? Solas: A great deal, although that is a different matter.

giving the truth, but not the whole truth

Blackwall: Skyhold. How did you find it? Solas: I looked. Blackwall: Now you sound like Cole. You looked? Solas: This world is full of wonders for those who seek them.

Blackwall: You spoke of seeing death and destruction. Did you fight in a war? Solas: There are struggles across Thedas at any given time. I doubt you would have heard of it. Blackwall: An elven skirmish? Solas: In a manner of speaking, yes.

Cassandra: Solas, have you always lived alone? Out in the wilderness, as an apostate? Solas: For the most part.

Cassandra: Have you ever encountered templars before? Solas: Only at a distance. I am an apostate, after all. Cassandra: And they never caught you even once? Solas: I am a very careful apostate.

Dorian: We found elves, living ancient elves, at the Temple of Mythal. Does that bother you, Solas? If Inquisitor allied with the Sentinels: Solas: I am pleased we were not forced to kill them, if that’s what you mean.

Iron Bull: You’ve got an odd style, Solas. Your spells are a bit different from the Circle mages or the Vints. Solas: That comes from being self-taught. Solas: I discovered most of my magic on my own, or learned it from my journeys in the Fade.

Vivienne: So, an apostate? Solas: That is correct, Enchanter. I did not train in your Circle.

Solas: You are a man who made a choice... possibly the first of your life. Iron Bull: I’ve always liked fighting. What if I turn savage, like the other Tal-Vashoth? Solas: You have the Inquisition, you have the Inquisitor... and you have me.

from cutscene at beginning Inquisitor: [mentions the anchor closing a rift] Solas: Whatever magic opened the Breach in the sky also placed that mark upon your hand. I theorized the mark might be able to close the rifts that have opened in the Breach's wake – and it seems I was correct.

from cutscene at beginning Solas: [to a Dalish Inq] You are Dalish, but clearly away from the rest of your clan. Did they send you here? Inquisitor: What do you know of the Dalish? Solas: I have wandered many roads in my time, and crossed paths with your people on more than one occasion. Inquisitor: [Crossed paths? dialogue choice] Solas: I mean that I offered to share knowledge, only to be attacked for no greater reason than their superstition.

from “I’d like to know more about you” convo in Haven Inquisitor: What made you start studying the Fade? Solas: I grew up in a village to the north. There was little to interest a young man, especially one gifted with magic. But as I slept, spirits of the Fade showed me glimpses of wonders I had never imagined. I treasured my dreams. Being awake, out of the Fade, became troublesome.

actually telling the truth but no one picks up on the gravity of it

Solas: [...] I believe the elven gods existed, as did the old gods of Tevinter. But I do not think any of them were gods, unless you expand the definition of the word to the point of absurdity. I appreciate the idea of your Maker, a god that does not need to prove his power. I wish more such gods felt the same. Cassandra: You have seen much sadness in your journeys, Solas. Following the Maker might offer some hope. Solas: I have people, Seeker. The greatest triumphs and tragedies this world has known can all be traced to people.

Cole: No, inside. I don’t hear your hurt as much. Your song is softer, subtler, not silent but still. Solas: How small the pain of one man seems when weighted against the endless depths of memory, of feeling, of existence. That ocean carries everyone. And those of us who learn to see its currents move through life with their fewer ripples.

Cole: You didn’t do it to be right. You did it to save them. Inquisitor: Solas, what is Cole talking about? Solas: A mistake. One of many made by a much younger elf who was certain he knew everything.

Solas: Empires rise and fall. Arlathan was no more “innocent” than your own Tevinter in its time. Solas: Your nostalgia for the ancient elves, however romanticized, is pointless.

Solas: Our people used to be here. Sera: Pfft, you say that everywhere. Solas: It is more true than you want to believe.

Vivienne: You must be pleased, apostate. With the Templars dissolved, your rebels will be most difficult to pacify. Solas: My rebels? Am I an agent for their cause, whispering poison into the Inquisition’s ears? Solas: How comforting. Vivienne: You enjoy seeing yourself as a villain? Solas: No more than any other clever man who wonders what he could do if pushed.

Vivienne: [about the Temple of Mythal] Now you know the elves were once a mighty nation. Solas: I always knew, Enchanter. The Temple of Mythal is just another reminder of what was lost.

(in the Emerald Graves): These forests have changed much since I was last here.

during the Fade!Haven cutscene Solas: It seems you hold the key to our salvation. You had sealed it with a gesture... and right then, I felt the whole world change. Inquisitor: [romance option] “Felt the whole world change?” Solas: A figure of speech. Inquisitor: I’m aware of the metaphor. I’m more interested in felt. Solas: You change... everything.

pointing out that people assume he means things he did not directly say

Cole: There is pain though, still within you. Solas: And I never said there was not.

Solas: You may well become fully human, after all. I never thought to see it. Cole: When did you see it before? Solas: I did not say that I had.

Iron Bull: We’ve got the alliance with my people. Given how much you love the Qun, I figured... Solas: I might scold you? Berate you for your decisions? Iron Bull: Hey. The Chargers died as heroes for the good of the mission. Solas: I never said otherwise.

Sera: Don’t you start. Solas: I’m reasonably certain I said nothing.

Vivienne: [talking shit about grey warden mages] Solas: I never claimed mages should be above the law, Enchanter. Vivienne: No, darling. You merely implied it, while offering no viable suggestions for improvement.

after infamous “side benefits” dialogue Warrior Inquisitor: You find my muscles enjoyable? Solas: I meant that you enjoyed having them, presumably. Warrior Inquisitor: Ah. Solas: But yes... since you asked.

diminishing things he does actually know by saying he he “believes” or “thinks,” or that things were vaguely “said” or “told”

Solas: I say what I believe to be true, even if it gives offense to those who prefer the lie.

Dorian: That orb Corypheus carries... are you certain it’s of elven origin, Solas? Solas: I believe so. Why do you ask?

Solas: It is said that we lived at a pace that sustained us for... ages.

making it sound like he’s talking about something/someone else, but it’s just him lmao

Cole: Do you know a lot about wolves? Solas: I know that they are intelligent, practical creatures that small-minded fools think of as terrible beasts.

Solas: No man can kill so many people without breaking inside. To survive... those you fight must become monsters. Iron Bull: The ones that kill innocent people, yeah. The rest... I don’t know. Solas: The mind does marvelous things to protect itself.

during In Hushed Whispers Inquisitor: I’m glad you understood what he just said because I’m not sure I did. Solas: You would think such understanding would stop me from making such terrible mistakes. You would be wrong.

misc

this one i wanted to include because it’s the only circumstance (that i came across) where someone directly asks solas to lie and he literally says he can’t

during the fucking crestwood breakup scene Inquisitor: [angry option] Tell me you don’t care. Solas: I can’t do that. Inquisitor: Tell me I was some casual dalliance so I can call you a cold-hearted son of a bitch and move on! Solas: I’m sorry.

*also note that most of these are banter transcriptions from the wiki; some are cutscene / other dialogue posted by either @/daitranscripts or u/karinini on reddit; it’s not all his cutscenes obv, but I’m not about to look up every single one individually sdlkfj*

[lusilly]

adaar headcanons cuz last time i did this i literally knew no dragon age lore and made everythign up

technically speaking, ismone is vashoth, not tal-vashoth; she was born to parents outside of the qun, so never actually rebelled against it. this is actually canon in adaar of the game cuz she talks about being raised by her parents and about how the qun is completely foreign to her. bull would've known the difference so bioware fucked up their lore a little i guess

(maybe with different dialogue questions she says differently? idk)

anyway her father was also vashoth, though he was orphaned at a young age and got by roaming around the free marches on his own. he is very slight for a qunari, which caused rumors that he was some sort of half human beast, maybe the product of (big cw here) a qunari man assaulting a human woman during a raid. as the rumor goes the infant grew horns in the womb and it tore his mother up inside as he was born. this is all rumors, though, and he has no actual idea of his parentage. it's just as likely his parents were tal-vashoth who were caught and brought to reeducation, or else died for their beliefs

in any case, he lives a shitty life wandering around, wearing big cloaks to hide his horns, and taking farmwork where he can. he tends to stick to areas where danger is high because that's where farmers are most in need of workers and also his qunari blood means he can handle himself in a fight

he grew to have a stubborn sort of appreciation for the dalish. whenever he wandered too close to one of their clans they would appear quietly in the trees, skulking behind bushes, watching him until he wandered away again. eventually he wound up having a decent relationship with the keeper of a particular clan

he crossed the waking sea to ferelden as soon as he was able, in order to get away from his former life. tbh much of his life stayed the same

i want to say he took the name ghilas when he was little because that's what a clan of elves called to him when he wandered too close to camp as a child. it means "go" or "go away" but he didn't know that and thought they were calling to him. as an adult he realizes this isn't the case but still keeps the name

ismone's mother is absolutely a tal-vashoth. she was raised to be a tamassran but hated it and rebelled. of course in order to be anything else under the qun she fundamentally had to change her identity, which is something she could not do. she resented being told she had to stay where she was and frequently got in trouble for being too willful and having too much of an identity. tho she suppressed it for many years, eventually she fled the qun all the way south to ferelden

she took the name Asaara Adaar ("weapon of the wind") and essentially became a mercenary for hire

she meets ghilas while on a job, literally like. she's on horseback with her company when she spots this qunari hoeing a field and she's so surprised she goes and speaks to him. he is really not as terrified of her and he should be, which is how she figures out he's vashoth and not tal-vashoth (tho for a while she's convinced he's ben-hassrath)

when her contract is over, she leaves her mercenary group and goes back to find the qunari in the field, fascinated by him. a laborer without a name! he should have been born in the qun, he would've fit right in there

the owner of the farm is very hostile to asaara so for a while she and ghilas meet in secret, and then one day the idea pops into her head to ask him to leave with her. they can set up their own farm somewhere and till their own crops. there are plenty of wild goats and druffalo they can corral, she can handle that if he's afraid of the druffalo

they literally build their farm with their bare hands. asaara grows skittish as they fall into a routine as it reminds her so much of life under the qun, so she'll sometimes disappear for a few months at a time to take a mercenary contract, leaving ghilas to tend to the farm on his own. it hurts him every time but also he's spent a lot of time on his own and he doesn't mind being alone

the farm is so remote it's actually close to a dalish clan, whose keeper is actually somewhat friendly. sometimes they come to trade with ghilas, though never when asaara is there. they (especially the children) think it's very funny that he has an elven name. the keeper wonders aloud if he might be part elven, not part human. after all, qunari have pointed ears like elves do

ghilas loooves the children

asaara's pregnancy is an accident. it's not like they're especially careful but she has never given ghilas a direct answer on the idea of children and seems to be at least generally cautious in bed. she doesn't realize she's pregnant until she's out on a mercenary mission and feels the quickening in her belly, which results in her abandoning her contract and going straight home

at one point she speaks with some of the dalish women about how to end the pregnancy, but she doesn't go through with it, though as time goes on she seems more and more distant and somewhat uhhh. what's the qunari word for it. asala-taar means "soul sickness" and is described a little like ptsd and she has a bit of a thousand yard stare while pregnant

she gives birth in their farmhouse, with only ghilas present. they name their daughter ismone. this name is not derived from qunlat. ghilas once knew a kind woman named ismone who found him eating scraps as a child and after dusk she left out a plate of bread and cheese for him. he does not tell asaara about this story, but she likes the taste of the name. it begins with iss, which means experienced or wise in her native tongue (which ghilas, of course, does not speak)

this is how ismone adaar came into the world, daughter of ghilas and asaara. she was raised outside the qun as vashoth. when ismone was still in her infancy, asaara grew increasingly crowded and resentful of feeling like she was placed back into her past as a tamassran so she winds up spending most of ismone's childhood out working as a mercenary

that said, when asaara IS home she is a doting mother who loves her daughter very much. she feels strongly that motherhood is her right and this family is a form of rebellion against the qun, refusing to relinquish those ties for the greater good of her society. but she can get easily spooked by having to care for her daughter - though it was way worse in the beginning when she was recovering after childbirth and ismone was an infant. as ismone grows older asaara is around more

by 10 or 11 asaara is with them for most of every year. ismone has a decent relationship with some of the dalish kids, playing games with them occasionally, but is otherwise often alone as a child. her father borrows books from the dalish and goes on a two-day trek into the nearest town to buy them from the merchant and teaches ismone everything she needs to know

her mother often rails about the evil of the qun. once when ismone is young, maybe 10 or so, asaara gets down on her knees and clutches her daughter's shoulders and she tells her, "you own your soul. you do. not me, not your father, not the qun. you cannot disrespect or dishonor your own soul because it belongs to you so you get to decide what you wish to do with it." this is so urgent to asaara, though ismone doesn't understand at that age that this is so much of the trauma of the qun surfacing

asaara loves her daughter and makes it known. she also refuses to ever tell ismone what to do lmfao so ismone has a lot of "learn by doing." ismone picks up an axe at a young age and asaara is happy to teach her what she knows, knowing that a girl qunari would not be allowed that role within the qun (or she would, but she would have to become a boy)

asaara has explained that to ismone before so the idea wasn't foreign to her when she met krem

eventually, asaara tells ismone she'll be joining the next merc job she's on. ismone is extremely enthusiastic and happy to join

they're only gone for about 2 months, but when they return home, the farm is destroyed, and ghilas's body is in their home, his corpse already rotting

this was, as u can imagine, very unpleasant for the both of them

asaara and ismone became full-time mercs. they worked together for a while but then asaara became increasingly withdrawn and started taking other assignments away from ismone. asaara wound up going deeper and deeper into clandestine work that took her undercover and would go months, then years without hearing from her. eventually ismone just. never hears from her again

ismone winds up taking more conventional jobs, which is how she eventually comes to be at the conclave. she is not a believer in any religion because her mother was very anti-religion and anti any kind of Way to live your life, but her father was very gentle and certainly respectful about the dalish's beliefs so she tends to have an open mind. she takes very much after her father in many way, though she is big and strong and dangerous like her mother

the mercenary band she hooks up with is mostly other vashoth or tal-vashoth, who her mother connected her with, but there's also an extremely ugly dalish elf named massif lmfao (emily's inquisitor) and a fiery dorf named cora (jenny's inquisitor) who wind up being like sisters to her. massif and cora were not at the conclave but come to find her at skyhold after everything Happens and they reunite

actually massif is from the dalish clan that she grew up near tho they reconnected as adults on a mission where they happened to cross paths. it was very thor ragnarok "HES A FRIEND FROM WORK"

ismone is generally curious about the qun and so gets along with bull well. she could not possibly have imagined letting the chargers die. she thinks of her parents sometimes, wondering where her mother is. they never found out who killed her father, tho she thinks her mother was looking for his killer when she disappeared. she harbors a vague hope as the inquisition gets more and more famous that her mother will appear out of the woodwork, but she does not

at least not until the inquisition is disbanded? let me finish trespasser again and get back to you on that

anyway, massif and cullen get together, cora and blackwall get together, ismone and josie get together. dorian and bull get together also as u kno. they're all one big happy family (dorian and bull are ismone's BEST! FRIENDS!)

ismone did not drink from the well cuz she was like lmfao are you kidding me i don't know shit, and she supported leliana as divine because she really hates the idea of the circles. she's never actually encountered a circle of magi but to her it feels like the same repressive structure that her mother abandoned in the qun

she absolutely gets married to josie when she can. maybe her mama shows up for the wedding. bull is like damn now there's a Woman and dorian smacks him

[curiouslavellan]

Reply from @cool-kink-bro

Not wastefulness, they were a message is how I saw it. They were the message, probably low ranking, maybe they were prone to messing up or not Qun-like enough to the point they wouldn't be missed if they were gone.

That's kind of my point though? Two people dying to send a message that Bull is super officially Tal-Vashoth is wasteful. Bull clearly already knows that, so the message was unnecessary, and Bull isn't part of the Qun anymore so I'm not even sure why they care about him anymore. If they thought they could actually kill him that would make more sense because a defected intelligence operative is a loose end, but Bull seems convinced it was a formality rather than a real assassination attempt

Those guys might have been bad at being spies or soldiers or whatever, but they were loyal enough to die for the cause, so they at least believe in the Qun. I don't see how using them as canon fodder for this is more useful than having them do farm work or something. There's a conversation with Bull where he talks about how the companions would do under the Qun and iirc he says even Sera would be put to work (after qamek) so presumably those guys could do something more useful than die

the Qun hates wastefulness but apparently it's standard practice to send two people to their deaths just to make a point to a defected Ben Hassrath