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gffa · 5 years ago

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OKAY, IF I’M GONNA DO THIS, I’M GONNA DO IT PROPERLY. WHICH MEANS YEAH IT’S GONNA GET REALLY LONG. A couple of things to say ahead of time: Lucasfilm’s Story Group has always said CANON > WORD OF GOD when it comes to these matters, so when I quote canon examples from supplementary materials that contradict what he says, that’s LF’s official position, but that doesn’t mean that an influential person like Dave’s views couldn’t affect how things will be shaped in the future, like Deborah Chow listening to this may be influenced by it on the Obi-Wan show, despite that Master & Apprentice contradicts him. It’s an incredibly murky area! Mileages are going to vary. Another thing to keep in mind is that Dave Filoni never worked on The Phantom Menace, that was long, long before his time at Lucasfilm (which I think he joined sometime around 2007? and TPM was released in 1999), that he has worked with George more than probably anyone else, but we cannot and should not treat him as infallible or the True Authority on things, because even Dave himself has said things like: “I mean, I know why I did that and what it means, but I don't like to explain too much. I love for the viewers to watch stuff and come up with their own theories -- and they frankly come up with better things that I intended.” --Dave Filoni, Entertainment Tonight 2020 interview Or, in the same episode as the above Qui-Gon interpretation:

So, when I dig into this, I’m not doing this out of a sense of malice or even that I suddenly hate Dave or don’t appreciate all the incredible things he’s brought to SW, but in that I disagree with his take, Dave understands that he doesn’t always get it right, that he enjoys that fans come up with different things than he does and sometimes he likes those even more. There’s room for both of us and, for all that Dave mentions George a lot (and, hey, fair enough, the guy worked with George and I’m just quoting what George Lucas has said) doesn’t mean that this is straight from George, especially because I have never seen George Lucas utter so much as a peep about how the Jedi were responsible for Anakin’s fall. He has explicitly and frequently talked about how Anakin’s fall was his own choice, as well as I’ve never seen him say anything Jedi-critical beyond “they were kind of arrogant about themselves”. I have read and watched every George Lucas interview I could get my hands on and maybe I’m still missing something, but that’s literally the extent of him criticizing the Jedi I have EVER seen. (It’s from the commentary on AOTC where he put in the scene with Jocasta to show they were full of themselves, but I also think it’s fair to point out that Obi-Wan immediately contradicts this by going to Dex for help, showing that it’s not necessarily a Jedi-wide thing.) Before I go further, I want to say: this is not a post meant to tear down Qui-Gon, he is a character I actually really do love, but the focus is on showing why the above interpretation of him is wrong, which means focusing on Qui-Gon’s flaws. He has many wonderful qualities, he is someone who cared deeply and was a good person, I think things would have been better had he lived! But Anakin’s choices did not hinge on him, because Anakin’s choices were Anakin’s, that has always been the consistent theme of how George talks about him, the way he talks about the story is always in terms of “Anakin did this” or “Anakin chose that”, and the Jedi are very consistently shown as caring, they believed very much in love and Dave’s own show (well, I say “his own show”, but honestly TCW was George’s baby primarily and he had a lot of direct, hands-on say in crafting it, through at least the first five seasons) is plenty of evidence of that. I’m not going to quote the full thing because this is already a monster post, I’m just going to focus on the Jedi stuff, because I like the other points a lot, but if you want the full text, it’s here. The relevant part is: “In Phantom Menace, you’re watching these two Jedi in their prime fight this evil villain. Maul couldn’t be more obviously the villain. He’s designed to look evil, and he is evil, and he just expresses that from his face all the way out to the type of lightsaber he fights with. What’s at stake is really how Anakin is going to turn out. Because Qui-Gon is different than the rest of the Jedi and you get that in the movie; and Qui-Gon is fighting because he knows he’s the father that Anakin needs. Because Qui-Gon hasn’t given up on the fact that the Jedi are supposed to actually care and love and that’s not a bad thing. The rest of the Jedi are so detached and they become so political that they’ve really lost their way and Yoda starts to see that in the second film. But Qui-Gon is ahead of them all and that’s why he’s not part of the council. So he’s fighting for Anakin and that’s why it’s the ‘Duel of the Fates’ – it’s the fate of this child. And depending on how this fight goes, Anakin, his life is going to be dramatically different. “So Qui-Gon loses, of course. So the father figure, he knew what it meant to take this kid away from his mother when he had an attachment, and he’s left with Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan trains Anakin at first out of a promise he makes to Qui-Gon, not because he cares about him. When they get Anakin, they find him on Tatooine, he says “Why do I feel like we’ve found another useless lifeform?” He’s comparing Anakin to Jar Jar and he’s saying “this is a waste of our time, why are we doing this, why do you see importance in these creatures like Jar Jar Binks and this ten-year-old boy? This is useless.” “So, he’s a brother to Anakin eventually but he’s not a father figure. That’s a failing for Anakin. He doesn’t have the family that he needs. He loses his mother in the next film. He fails on this promise that he made, “mother, I’m going to come back and save you”. So he’s left completely vulnerable and Star Wars is ultimately about family. So that moment in that movie which a lot of people I think diminish, “oh there’s a cool lightsaber fight”, but it’s everything that the entire three films of the prequels hangs on, is that one particular fight. And Maul serves his purpose and at that point died before George made me bring him back, but he died.“ --Dave Filoni I’m going to take this a piece at a time to show why I really disagree with the content of both the movies and The Clone Wars supporting what Dave says and, instead, contradicts it a lot. The rest of the Jedi are so detached and they become so political that they’ve really lost their way and Yoda starts to see that in the second film. He doesn’t explain what this means, but I’m pretty sure that he’s referring to this conversation: OBI-WAN: “I am concerned for my Padawan. He is not ready to be given this assignment on his own yet.” YODA: “The Council is confident in its decision, Obi-Wan.” MACE WINDU: “The boy has exceptional skills.” OBI-WAN: “But he still has much to learn, Master. His abilities have made him... well.... arrogant.” YODA: “Yes, yes. A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Hmm... too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones.” MACE WINDU: “Remember, Obi-Wan, if the prophecy is true, your apprentice is the only one who can bring the Force back into balance.” OBI-WAN: "If he follows the right path.” None of that has anything to do with being “detached” and, further, I think this is something that’s come up with Dave’s view of Luminara a lot, because he’s described her (re: the Geonosis arc): “We were trying to illustrate the difference between the way Anakin is raising his Padawan, and how much he cares about her, and the way Luminara raises her Padawan. Not that Luminara is indifferent, but that Luminara is detached. It’s not that she doesn’t care, but she’s not attached to her emotionally.” Here, he says that the Jedi care, in the above, he says that the Jedi don’t care, which makes me think there’s a lot of characterization drift as time goes on, especially when fandom bombards everyone with the idea that the Jedi were cold, emotionless, and didn’t care. However, look��at Luminara’s face in that arc, when she’s talking with Anakin:

That is not the face of someone who doesn’t care. She even smiles brightly in relief when Barriss is shown to be okay, that this really doesn’t convey “detached” in an unloving or uncaring way. (We’ll get to attachment later, that’s definitely coming.) (I’m also mostly skipping the political thing, because I think that’s just a fundamental disagreement of whether Jedi should or should not lean into politics. My view basically boils down to that I think ALL OF US should be leaning more into politics because we are citizens who live in the world and are responsible for it, and the Jedi are no different. This is evidenced by: - M&A’s storyline has Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan saving the day specifically because they play politics, that’s how they manage to free the slaves, through playing politics and being part of the Republic/having Senate backing. - The Clone Wars has shown that the Jedi believe “lasting change can only come from within” and “it’s every citizen’s duty to hold their leaders accountable” when Ahsoka teaches the cadets on Mandalore, as well as that politics are not inherently bad, given that Padme and Bail are working to make the system better or “create lasting change from within [the system]” - "Trying to serve the greater good does not always make you popular” says Padme Amidala in a very caring speech - Star Wars Propaganda makes the case that the Jedi might have won the war had they leaned more into politics. - Sometimes the Jedi get unfairly accused of playing politics when there’s just no good choice and they still have to choose one or the other.) But Qui-Gon is ahead of them [re: caring and loving] all and that’s why he’s not part of the council. This is flat-out wrong in regards to canon. Mileages are going to vary, of course, on how much one takes a novel into consideration, but Dave Filoni is not a fan with the luxury of deciding what is or isn’t canon, he works on Star Wars where canon is canon. Now, does that mean canon will never contradict itself, especially if Dave gets to write something for Qui-Gon? Of course not, SW isn’t immune to continuity errors and they themselves have never said otherwise, even when fans want to hold them to that standard. However, this is still pretty much a big “that’s not what happened” instance. In Master & Apprentice, the Jedi Council offer a seat to Qui-Gon on the Council, specifically BECAUSE he has different opinions from them and they welcome that. (Excerpt here.) “We hope it will also be our gain,” Mace replied. “Qui-Gon Jinn, we hereby offer you a seat on the Jedi Council.” Had he misheard? No, he hadn’t. Qui-Gon slowly gazed around the circle, taking in the expressions of each Council member in turn. Some of them looked amused, others pleased. A few of them, Yoda included, appeared more rueful than not. But they were serious. “I admit—you’ve surprised me,” Qui-Gon finally said.“I imagine so,” Mace said drily. “A few years ago, we would’ve been astonished to learn we would ever consider this. But in the time since, we’ve all changed. We’ve grown. Which means the possibilities have changed as well.” Qui-Gon took a moment to collect himself. Without any warning, one of the turning points of his life had arrived. Everything he said and did in the next days would be of great consequence. “You’ve argued with my methods often as not, or perhaps you’d say I’ve argued with yours.” “Truth, this is,” Yoda said. Depa Billaba gave Yoda a look Qui-Gon couldn’t interpret. “It’s also true that the Jedi Council needs more perspectives.” Ultimately, Qui-Gon is the who turns them down and gives up a chance to shape the Jedi Council because he doesn’t like the shape they’re taking. That he does become less political, but this is after he’s argued that the Jedi should be working to push the Senate harder, so when he has a chance to help with that, he turns it down. It has nothing to do with caring and loving, it’s about Qui-Gon’s desire to not have to deal with the work himself, when he wants to be more of a hippie Jedi. (I’ve written a lot about Qui-Gon in M&A, why I actually think it’s really spot-on to someone who can be both really kind and really kind of a dick, but it’s not the most flattering portrayal, even if narrative intention likely didn’t mean what came across to me. I think this post and this post are probably the most salient ones, but if you want something of an index of the web that’s being woven with all the various media, this one is good, too.) So he’s fighting for Anakin and that’s why it’s the ‘Duel of the Fates’ – it’s the fate of this child. And depending on how this fight goes, Anakin, his life is going to be dramatically different. I have only ever seen George Lucas talk about Anakin’s fate in one instance and it’s this: “It’s fear of losing somebody he loves, which is the flipside of greed. Greed, in terms of the Emperor, it’s the greed for power, absolute power, over everything. With Anakin, really it’s the power to save the one he loves, but it’s basically going against the Fates and what is natural.“ –George Lucas, Revenge of the Sith commentary I’ve made my case about why I think Anakin’s fate is about that moment in Palpatine’s office, and so I’m not fundamentally opposed that “Duel of the Fates” is about Anakin’s fate, but here’s what George has provably said about the “Duel of the Fates” part of the story: - In the commentary for The Phantom Menace during “Duel of the Fates” and none of Dave’s speculation is even hinted at, there’s more focus on the technical side of things and the most George talks about is that it’s Obi-Wan who parallels Luke in going over the edge during the fight, except that instead of a Sith cutting off a Jedi’s hand, it’s a Jedi cutting a Sith in half, drawing the parallels between them. - He does say of the funeral scene that this is where Obi-Wan commits to training Anakin and how everything is going to go (though, in canon we see that Obi-Wan still struggles with this a bit, but Yoda is there to support him and nudge him into committing even more to Anakin, because the Jedi are a supportive community to each other). This is some solid evidence for that Obi-Wan is already caring about Anakin beyond just Qui-Gon. - Then here’s what he says about the “Duel of the Fates” fights and themes of them in "All Films Are Personal": George Lucas: “I wanted to come up with an apprentice for the Emperor who was striking and tough. We hadn’t seen a Sith Lord before, except for Vader, of course. I wanted to convey the idea that Jedi are all very powerful, but they’re also vulnerable — which is why I wanted to kill Qui-Gon. That is to say, “Hey, these guys aren’t Superman.” These guys are people who are vulnerable, just like every other person. “We needed to establish that, but at the same time, we wanted the ultimate sword fight, because they were all very good. It sort of predisposes the sword fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan later on. There’s real purpose to it. You have to establish the rules and then stick with them. The scene illustrates just how Jedi and Sith fight and use lightsabers.” “So Qui-Gon loses, of course. So the father figure, he knew what it meant to take this kid away from his mother when he had an attachment, and he’s left with Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan trains Anakin at first out of a promise he makes to Qui-Gon, not because he cares about him. We’ll get to the “attachment to his mother” thing in a bit--but, for now, let’s just say, George Lucas’ words on this are not that attachment to her was a good thing. Fair enough that “not because he cares about him” is up to personal interpretation, but canon has also addressed the topic of Obi-Wan’s treatment of Anakin and Obi-Wan stepped up to the plate on this. In addition to how we see Obi-Wan REPEATEDLY being there for Anakin and being concerned and caring about him, they specifically talk about Qui-Gon and overcome this hurdle.

No, Obi-Wan is not Anakin’s father figure, on that we definitely agree. Anakin never really even treats Obi-Wan like a father--he says “you’re the closest thing I have to a father” in Attack of the Clones, as well as he says Obi-Wan practically raised him in The Clone Wars “Crystal Crisis” story reels, but Anakin has never actually acted like Obi-Wan is his father--”then why don’t you listen to me?” Obi-Wan points out in AOTC--as well as Obi-Wan glides past those remarks, which I’ve always taken that he doesn’t want to reject Anakin’s feelings, knowing that Anakin can be sensitive about them, but neither does he want to confirm them. This does not mean Obi-Wan was not supportive, caring, and loving. He says, “I loved you!” to Anakin in Revenge of the Sith, he asks after him and if he’s sleeping well in Attack of the Clones, and even George Lucas himself said that the elevator scene was set up TO SHOW OBI-WAN AND ANAKIN CARE FOR EACH OTHER:

PUTTING THE REST UNDER A READ MORE FOR A BETTER LENGTH REBLOGGABLE VERSION, IF YOU WANT.

This is further evidenced by how the Jedi do see themselves as family, they just don’t need to put it into strict nuclear family dynamics: - “You were my brother, Anakin! I loved you!” [–Obi-Wan Kenobi, Revenge of the Sith] - “We are brothers, Master Dibs.” [–Mace Windu, Jedi of the Republic - Mace Windu] - “Did your parents bicker?” she asked. “The adoptive ones, I mean.” A slow smile broke across Ashla’s face, curling first one side of her mouth and then the other. Whatever she was remembering, Kaeden could tell it was good. "All the time,“ Ashla said, almost as if she were talking to herself. [–Kaeden Larte, Ahsoka Tano, Ahsoka] - Vos, brought to the Temple even younger than most, felt that he had hundreds of brothers and sisters, and it seemed that whenever he went into the dining hall he ran into at least half of them. [Dark Disciple] - “It was not his birthplace, exactly, but the Jedi Temple was where Quinlan Vos had grown up. He’d raced through its corridors, hidden behind its massive pillars, found peace in its meditation hall, ended-and started-fights in rooms intended for striking blows and some that weren’t, and sneaked naps in its library. All Jedi came here, at some point in their lives; for Quinlan, it always felt like coming home when he ran lightly up the stairs and entered the massive building as he did now.” [Dark Disciple] Brothers, sisters, and other more non-traditional kinds of family are not lesser and Obi-Wan and Anakin absolutely were family, just as the Jedi are all family to each other, so, no, there was no “failing” Anakin, except in Anakin’s mind, perhaps. (In that, I can agree. But not on a narratively approved level, canon too thoroughly refutes that for me.) Rebels as well pretty thoroughly shows that non-traditional families are meaningful and just as important--we may joke that Hera is “space mom”, but she’s not actually Ezra or Sabine’s mother, Kanan is not actually their father, and even if they sometimes stray into aspects of those roles (as the Jedi do as well in the movies and TCW), that they don’t need that traditional nuclear family structure. Mentor figures--and Kanan is Ezra’s mentor--are just as meaningful and needful as a “dad”. And I’m kind of :/ at the implication that anyone without a dad/father figure or mom/mother figure is being “failed”. When they get Anakin, they find him on Tatooine, he says “Why do I feel like we’ve found another useless lifeform?” He’s comparing Anakin to Jar Jar and he’s saying “this is a waste of our time, why are we doing this, why do you see importance in these creatures like Jar Jar Binks and this ten-year-old boy? This is useless.” Whether or not Obi-Wan is being genuinely dismissive in this movie (I think you could make a case either way), the idea that Qui-Gon is better than Obi-Wan about this, as shown through Jar Jar isn’t exactly very supported given how Qui-Gon and Jar Jar first exchange words:

QUI-GON: “You almost got us killed. Are you brainless?” JAR JAR: “I spake.” QUI-GON: “The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.” Qui-Gon is just as bad as everyone else to Jar Jar, he’s not somehow elevated above them. It’s also baffling because, Dave, I have watched your show. The Jedi are specifically shown to be kind to people and creatures, not considering them “useless”. Henry Gilroy (who was the co-writer for The Clone Wars and frequently appeared in featurettes on the same level as Dave Filoni) explicitly draws this to The Jedi Way, that “life is everything to the Jedi“, when he said this about the Ryloth episodes:

(Caps cribbed from Pan’s blog, because I cannot make another gif, save me, please.) Henry Gilroy in an Aggressive Negotiations Interview: "Obi-Wan truly is a Jedi in that he’s like, ‘Okay, I’m not going to murder these creatures [in the Ryloth arc of The Clone Wars]. They’re starving to death. They’ve basically been unleashed against these people as a weapon, but it’s not their fault. They’re just doing what they do. They’re just animals who wanna eat.’ "So the idea was–and I think there was an early talk about how, 'Oh, yeah, he’ll go running through them and slicing and dicing them and chop them all up or whatever, and save his guys. And I’m like, 'Yeah, but that’s not really the Jedi way. He’s not just gonna murder these creatures.’ "And I know the threat is [there], to save one life you have to take one, but the idea of him [is]: why can’t Obi-Wan just be more clever? He basically draws them in and then traps them. "It says something about who the Jedi are, they don’t just waste life arbitrarily. And someone could have gone, 'Oh, yeah, but it would have been badass if he’d just ran in there with his lightsaber spinning and stabbed them all in the head!’ And 'Yeah, you’re right, I guess he could be that, but he’s trying to teach his clones a lesson right then, about the sanctity of life.’ "That is the underlying theme of that entire episode. Which is: A tactical droid is using the people as living shields. Life means nothing to the Separatists. The droids. But life is everything to the Jedi. And even though he doesn’t have to say that, it’s all through the episode thematically.“ It’s also Obi-Wan who teaches Anakin about kindness to mindless creatures in the Obi-Wan & Anakin comic:

"These beasts are nearly mindless, Anakin. I can feel it. They are merely following their nature, they should not die simply because they crossed our path. Use the Force to send them on their way.” Now, fair enough if you want to say Obi-Wan was taught by Qui-Gon, but also Qui-Gon is dead by that point and Obi-Wan growing into being more mature is his own accomplishment, not Qui-Gon’s, especially given that we see Qui-Gon himself being pretty dismissive to Jar Jar in TPM. This isn’t unique thing either, Padme is incredibly condescending to Jar Jar in “Bombad Jedi” and expresses clear annoyance with him to C-3PO when sighing over him. Jar Jar is a character you kind of have to warm up to, pretty much the only one we’ve seen consistently being favorable to him is Yoda (and maybe Anakin, though, Anakin doesn’t really interact with him a ton) and Mace Windu warms up to him considerably in “The Disappeared” and even specifically is shown to be teaching him and helping him, which is a huge theme of the Jedi and how much they care.

So, ultimately, the point I’m winding my way towards is--the other Jedi do show kindness and consideration to Jar Jar Binks, including characters like Mace Windu, so if you’re judging the Jedi based on that, the conclusion of Qui-Gon somehow being more compassionate and loving is really pretty thoroughly disproved by The Phantom Menace and The Clone Wars themselves. So, he’s a brother to Anakin eventually but he’s not a father figure. That’s a failing for Anakin. He doesn’t have the family that he needs. He loses his mother in the next film. He fails on this promise that he made, “mother, I’m going to come back and save you”. So he’s left completely vulnerable and Star Wars is ultimately about family. You could be charitable and say this is just from Anakin’s point of view that it’s a “failing”, but within the context of what Dave’s saying, it’s clearly meant as a more narratively approved take, not just Anakin’s point of view, and I really, really dislike the idea that Anakin--or anyone, really--needs a traditional nuclear family, ie a “mom” and/or a “dad”, or else it’s a “failing” for them. Setting aside that the idea that Qui-Gon would need to be Anakin’s dad to be kind to hi (which is ?????) is contradicted by The Clone Wars as well. Yes, Qui-Gon is warm with Anakin in several scenes, which is what Dave is presumably drawing on to show that Qui-Gon believed the Jedi should be caring and loving, but you know who else is warm to younglings? OTHER JEDI COUNCIL MEMBERS.

Those two scenes have the exact same kind of warmth to them. Ie, THE JEDI ALL BELIEVED IN BEING LOVING AND KIND, NOT JUST QUI-GON. The things evidenced to show Qui-Gon was loving and kind are evidenced just as much in other Council members, in Dave’s own show. As a bonus--have Mace Windu, known Jedi Council member, being super kind and loving towards a young Twi’lek girl he just met in a canon comic:

But I know that this is about the way the Council treated Anakin in The Phantom Menace testing scene, but here’s the thing--when I go back and I watch that scene and the Jedi aren’t ever mean to him, they’re neutral in an official testing situation, where they are trying to determine if he’s able to adapt to the Jedi ways. They never once say he’s bad for holding onto his fear, only that he does--which Anakin digs his heels in and gets angry about, he can’t really even admit that he’s afraid and that’s a huge deal for the Jedi. I’ve made a longer post about it here (and here), but the basic gist is: - That scene has Yoda giving the famous “Fear leads to the dark side” speech which is almost word for word how George Lucas describes how the Force works, showing the Jedi are narratively correct - “Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi” may be from the sequels, but it is thoroughly supported by the movies and TCW and Rebels and even supplementary canon material, including that the Jedi literally design their tests around both Masters and Padawans for it (Ilum, the Jedi Temple on Lothal, etc. - Anakin cannot admit to his fears in that TPM scene - We have examples of Jedi younglings do admit to their fears and the point isn’t not to have them, but to face them--the younglings in “The Gathering” are the most blatant example of this, but it’s also pretty much the entire theme of Jedi: Fallen Order, especially when Cal goes to Ilum to face his fears and get another kyber crystal. The point isn’t that Anakin--who has very good reasons to be afraid! nothing in the story or the Jedi have said he didn’t!--is wrong or bad, but that he’s not a great fit for the Jedi life because he is “unwilling to accept [Jedi philosophy] emotionally”. And they’re right about this, because this is how George Lucas describes Anakin in commentary: “The fact that everything must change and that things come and go through his life and that he can’t hold onto things, which is a basic Jedi philosophy that he isn’t willing to accept emotionally and the reason that is because he was raised by his mother rather than the Jedi. If he’d have been taken in his first year and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn’t have this particular connection as strong as it is and he’d have been trained to love people but not to become attached to them.” --George Lucas, Attack of the Clones commentary And so this brings us to A T T A C H M E N T, which, yeah, we’ve been having this discussion forever, but I’m going to state it again: Within Star Wars, ATTACHMENT IS NARRATIVELY A BAD THING. It is consistently tied to possessive, obsessive relationships, to greed and an unwillingness to let things go when it’s time (letting go is a huge theme in Star Wars) and equating love with attachment is fundamentally wrong according to George Lucas’ Star Wars worldbuilding: “The Jedi are trained to let go. They’re trained from birth,” he continues, “They’re not supposed to form attachments. They can love people-- in fact, they should love everybody. They should love their enemies; they should love the Sith. But they can’t form attachments. So what all these movies are about is: greed. Greed is a source of pain and suffering for everybody. And the ultimate state of greed is the desire to cheat death.” --George Lucas, The Making of Revenge of the Sith If attachment and love were the same thing, then he would be saying, “They should love their enemies, they should love the Sith. But they can’t love.” The way George makes the distinction shows that, no, attachment and love aren’t the same thing at all, attachment is not caring. Further, there’s another instance of him showing there’s an important distinction between relationships and attachment and the association of attachmets with possession: "Jedi Knights aren’t celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships.” --George Lucas, BBC News interview So, yes, when Anakin is attached to people, it is directly tied to obsession, possession, and greed, all things of the dark side: “He turns into Darth Vader because he gets attached to things. He can’t let go of his mother; he can’t let go of his girlfriend. He can’t let go of things. It makes you greedy. And when you’re greedy, you are on the path to the dark side, because you fear you’re going to lose things, that you’re not going to have the power you need.” --George Lucas, Time Magazine “But he has become attached to his mother and he will become attached to Padme and these things are, for a Jedi, who needs to have a clear mind and not be influenced by threats to their attachments, a dangerous situation. And it feeds into fear of losing things, which feeds into greed, wanting to keep things, wanting to keep his possessions and things that he should be letting go of. His fear of losing her turns to anger at losing her, which ultimately turns to revenge in wiping out the village. The scene with the Tusken Raiders is the first scene that ultimately takes him on the road to the dark side. I mean he’s been prepping for this, but that’s the one where he’s sort of doing something that is completely inappropriate.“ --George Lucas, Attack of the Clones commentary ATTACHMENT IS BAD IN STAR WARS AS THEY DEFINE IT. Finally, I’m going to circle back to: Because Qui-Gon is different than the rest of the Jedi and you get that in the movie; and Qui-Gon is fighting because he knows he’s the father that Anakin needs. Because Qui-Gon hasn’t given up on the fact that the Jedi are supposed to actually care and love and that’s not a bad thing. Here’s the thing about this: You know who else, by this logic, Qui-Gon should have been a father to? OBI-WAN KENOBI. This isn’t said as “Anakin specifically needs a father” (which I think would be an interesting idea to bandy about and I’m not disagreeing, though, it’s complicated because of what Anakin refuses to accept emotionally), it’s said in a bigger context, that Qui-Gon is better than the other Jedi because he understands the need for fathers (and thus this ties into Return of the Jedi) and he’s ahead of the other Jedi, who apparently think loving and caring about people are bad things, but Qui-Gon does not treat Obi-Wan like his son. Or, if he does, he’s not exactly a stellar dad about it. Within Master & Apprentice, there’s an incredibly consistent theme of how Qui-Gon thinks supportive things about Obi-Wan, but never says them aloud. He thinks he should talk to Obi-Wan about the upcoming decision to be on the Council and then never does. He could have explained why he kept Obi-Wan training the basics but he never does. There are multiple instances showing that Qui-Gon is actually really, really bad at actually handling a young apprentice who needs him to talk to them about important things. Qui-Gon continues this in From a Certain Point of View where he still never talked to Obi-Wan about everything that happened, even after he became a Force Ghost. Damn, damn, damn. Qui-Gon closed his eyes for one moment. It blocked nothing; the wave of shock that went through Obi-Wan was so great it could be felt through the Force. Qui-Gon hadn’t thought Kirames Kaj would mention the Jedi Council invitation. It seemed possible the soon-retiring chancellor of the Republic might not even have taken much note of information about a new Council member. --Master & Apprentice That comment finally pierced Qui-Gon’s damnable calm. There was an edge to his voice as he said, “I suspected you would be too upset to discuss this rationally. Apparently I was correct.” “I thought you said my reaction was understandable,” Obi-Wan shot back. “So why does it disqualify me from hearing the truth?” Qui-Gon put his hands on his broad belt, the way he did when he was beginning to withdraw into himself. “…we should discuss this at another time. Neither of us is his best self at the present.” --Master & Apprentice Obi-Wan walked toward the door, obviously outdone. “At the beginning of my apprenticeship, I couldn’t understand you,” he said. “Unfortunately, that’s just as true here at the end.” Only yesterday they had worked together as never before. How did Qui-Gon manage to get closer to Obi-Wan at the same time he was moving further away? Just before Obi-Wan would leave the room, Qui-Gon said, “Once, you asked me about the basic lightsaber cadences. Why I’d kept you there, instead of training you in more advanced forms of combat.” Obi-Wan turned reluctantly to face him again. “I suppose you thought I wasn’t ready for more. The same way I’m not ready to believe in all this mystical—” “That’s not why.” After a long pause, Obi-Wan calmed to the point where he would listen. “Then why, Qui-Gon?” “Because many Padawans—and full Jedi Knights, for that matter—forget that the most basic technique is the most important technique. The purest. The most likely to protect you in battle, and the foundation of all knowledge that is to come,” Qui-Gon said. “Most apprentices want to rush ahead to styles of fighting that are flashier or more esoteric. Most Masters let them, because we must all find our preferred form eventually. But I wanted you to be grounded in your technique. I wanted you to understand the basic cadences so well that they would become instinct, so that you would be almost untouchable. Above all, I wanted to give you the training you needed to accomplish anything you set your mind to later on.” Obi-Wan remained quiet for so long that Qui-Gon wondered if he were too angry to really hear any of what he’d said. But finally, his Padawan nodded. “Thank you, Qui-Gon. I appreciate that. But—” “But what?” “You could’ve said so,” Obi-Wan replied, and then he left. --Master & Apprentice "I owe you that. After all, I’m the one who failed you.“ "Failed me?” They have never spoken of this, not once in all Qui-Gon’s journeys into the mortal realm to commune with him. This is primarily because Qui-Gon thought his mistakes so wretched, so obvious, that Obi-Wan had wanted to spare him any discussion of it. Yet here, too, he has failed to do his Padawan justice. --From a Certain Point of View, “Master and Apprentice” (Further, in Master & Apprentice, Qui-Gon thinks that the Jedi give Rael Averross--who is HUGELY paralleled to Anakin--too many exceptions, were too soft on him because he came to the Jedi later than most and has trouble thinking of them as his family, and he thinks they should have been stricter with him.) It’s also readily apparent within The Phantom Menace itself:

You can take some charitable views of this scene, that Qui-Gon was pushed into a corner where he had few other options (and this is the view I generally take even!), but this is after the entire movie where he’s never once indicated that Obi-Wan was ready, has instead indicated that he still has much to learn (not just of the Living Force, but in general), as well as made it clear that he’s still teaching Obi-Wan, like on the Trade Federation ship. And I do think Obi-Wan got over this because he understood, because Obi-Wan actually is a very selfless person, he clearly cares (which is furthered by how we see him warm up to Anakin very quickly), but look at their faces. This was not a good moment, and they do somewhat make up, where Qui-Gon says that Obi-Wan has been a good apprentice, that he’s wiser than Qui-Gon and he’ll be a great Jedi--but if we’re counting that as Qui-Gon being this great Jedi, then you can’t say Obi-Wan failed Anakin, given that we show him doing the exact same thing, except better. He tells Anakin, “You are strong and wise and will become a far greater Jedi than I could ever hope to be.”, echoing Qui-Gon’s words, but also he never threw Anakin aside for someone else. This is kind of a major undercurrent throughout The Clone Wars, where Obi-Wan never takes another apprentice, where he continues to teach Anakin, to support him, even to the point of occasionally co-Mastering Ahsoka with him. “This has been quite a journey for our Padawan.” Qui-Gon’s treatment of Obi-Wan in this scene isn’t the worst, he’s kind about it later (though, he never actually specifically apologizes for this), but we can see that this is a moment where Qui-Gon hurts Obi-Wan and knows it. And you know what George Lucas has to say about Qui-Gon? This: “So here we’re having Qui-Gon wanting to skip the early training and jump right to taking him on as his Padawan learner, which is controversial, and ultimately, the source of much of the problems that develop later on.” –George Lucas, The Phantom Menace commentary There’s nothing about Qui-Gon being right or better than the other Jedi, but instead that Qui-Gon’s actions here are a source of much of the problems that develop later on. So, ultimately, I liked some points Dave made in that speech, it’s a beautiful and eloquent one, but I thoroughly disagree with his interpretation of George’s intentions for Qui-Gon and I thoroughly disagree that that’s what the movies, The Clone Wars (DAVE’S OWN SHOW), and the supplementary canon show about Qui-Gon and the other Jedi. I still stand by my appreciation of Dave’s contributions to SW as a whole, I think he does a really good job at making Star Wars, but he doesn’t always get everything right and this is one thing where I think the canon and George’s commentary show otherwise, as much as I love his desire to defend the prequels’ importance in the story. Because, my friend, I have felt that every single day of my SW life.

#anakin skywalker #qui gon jinn #jedi order #george lucas #dave filoni #meta #long post #really long post

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meandmyechoes · 4 years ago

Text

The more I think about Dark Disciple, the more I find something odd.

[28th March 17:46]

I keep referring to it as a ‘favourable experience’, and there is no question the writing is what made me fall totally head over heels about quintress, but I also just, can’t?

I mean, yes. It’s very passionate, dramatic, scenes and gestures I can only dream of. But I also, don’t really see it in that ’omg they totally belong together here are my sixty headcanons of them’ sense?

I am very involved in the pairing, but also don’t really, actively ‘ship’ it — like the way it was an open book with Rhayme or Latts Razzi (since it’s the same author that indoctrinated me to Captain Rhayme). I could imagine them being happily ever after and silly shenanigans and slow-burn. But the concept of a quintress fairytale ending is so wild. I can only ask how much it is tainted with my personal view on relationships.

I know the plot leaves little room for “the future” and fed us well on all tropes possible. But, it just never occurred to me to put them in any other clichés or invent a missing scene.

Winding up, I don’t think their relationship is "weak", but it’s very motivated by circumstances and once you take that out of them, you are a little bit lost. For example even during the illicit affairs month, I… can’t really propose one date that does not seem tonally insensitive. (I can think of them being cloak dorks and Vos bringing her to ice-cream, that’s it, after a long hard moment) Really, all I possibly want is that sweet, sweet angst and canon is already there so I have no complaint.

It’s just… I don’t really get why it has to be the two of them that fall for each other. I understand why they did, and I believe it— Perhaps it’s much more a physical attraction thing that I don’t really have personal experience with.

I don’t know if quintress classify as slow-burn because 10 chapters still seem a little quick in the grand scheme of things. (aside: I’m quite disappointed Ventress wasn’t doing much in the last quarter of the book.) My point is, they do feel a little bit puppet to tropes, and while it’s deliciously written, there’s not much potential outside of canon. And that lack of inspiration makes me grimace a little.

[3rd April, 01:39]

I’ve scrolled through the dd tag and let the book sank a little. I am better articulated to talk about the sexist criticism now.

It’s a romance story, and when I judge it by that (lower) standard, it ticks the boxes. However, it might be a weakness as well, due to the projectability of the heroes. And yes, the whole assassination is dumb. Yet, tcw has been consistently this dumb at us. The last two times when she’s more rooted in the dark she failed, sent Savage and failed, so she’s gonna do it again with Vos… after she put down her desire for revenge. right. and surprise! Our “assassination” plan is to find Dooku and duel him directly. right…

I’ve read a review that says the romance takes away from the plot. However, the romance IS the plot. The book IS supposed to revolve around the two of them. I do agree them becoming begrudging allies then partners is a more unique approach, more rewarding as foils as well. but I guess a romance is easier for the conventional to process ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

With the “Ventress lose agency in falling for Vos”. Now, I can’t dictate how each of us buy into their physical attraction and chemistry (or lack thereof), and there’s no denial that a conscious human being is making that choice for the fictional character, I think the stance on this topic varied person to person from the above two factors, which are very different starting points.

I kept Katie Lucas’s foreword vividly in mind while reading. She said this is a story about people seizing chances to rebuild. That there’s always a choice. Cliché as it is, I believe ~the power of love~. I believe there exists someone you’re willing to sacrifice everything for, to overlook everything for, to forgive - to love them, warts and all. So, yes whether you think Ventress loses her agency to the romance, or if that’s a conscious choice on her behalf, is swayed heavily by how much you buy that they are the one.

[10th April, 10:30]

Yesterday I’ve been thinking a bit more about this. I do love this ship, I just don’t believe they’d be two people who find each other again and again in every life time, in every universe. That’s why, as magnificent as fireworks, it also won’t last.

To explore this, it’s not entire impossible for quintress to separate peacefully after this incident, but would that cheapen the build before? The entire motivation of dark!Quinlan hinges on his vision of their future. And say, Ventress did saved him and survived. How would he balance being a Jedi and his feelings - that’s publicly exposed to the Council? (sidenote: i really don’t like Ch. 27 where a bunch of old men are questioning their love life, but uhhh yes, I’m a sensible person!) For now, I’m seeing another Obi-Satine situation. And honestly how bad that an outcome is. It’s not like Ventress died for her war crimes! The show gave her a full pardon! So Idk man. Why can’t she leave him because she loves him and she exiled herself and they never see each other again WHY NOT FILONI WHY NOT.

Now I’m lamenting more what could’ve been with the two arcs. In Filoni’s original sketch, Aayla and Maul were involved. Man, that could’ve been the dream.

~~~

Part 2: [26th April, 15:15]

It has been… a month, since I finished Dark Disciple and I feel like it’s time to conclude all the thinking this book has made me do.

On the wider reflection about attachment and the Jedi Order, I still have to do more reading on it from other sources to form a concrete opinion. This theme won’t be touched on in this post yet, but I cannot shake how intriguing it is to compare “falling” in love to falling to the dark side. The temptation, and the submission to their emotions, the irrationality, the newfound curiosity, it all incites. Very curiously, it was Anakin Skywalker who commented that one is “blinded by love”

Okay, so what I’ve been scratching my head off the past two weeks is how I look at the romance between Asajj Ventress and Quinlan Vos. How would I define it?

Now this is as much as an exploration of how I view romantic relationships. Well, I’ve decided it wasn’t “love”, it was an “affair”. It was an affair because it’s a rush of passion, it’s a secret, it won’t last. Before I chop my own head off for bluntness, I mean it in, of course they are hopelessly in love with each other, that’s the exact premise of why it moved me so. But it wasn’t a complete relationship, wasn’t a healthy, sustainable one by any objective standards. Then, that’s the exact contradiction. Oh to throw caution in the wind with you, or to build a future with you?

Both are things I want a lot, and the ideal is of course one after the other. What quintress had (in the end) is definitely not something I’d want for myself, but it’s so fantastical, it’s alluring, just like the concept of falling in love - opening up yourself and trusting another person, is - it’s risky. That’s why it’s a sweet, sweet drug.

I’ve been so angry at all the red flags in this relationship. Reading this book, getting into both of their shoes, yelling NO like their best friends. But ultimately, what they had is unique to them and I can’t influence it in any way. Re-reading, I find myself holding myself back at all the places I was furious about going ‘You are smarter than this!’. Because it’s a tragedy, and the beautiful (I guess) thing is they chose each other.

The other day something on the dash inspired me to really think about ship dynamics. I, unashamedly admit, I’m VERY into Obi/Quin/Ventress in any and all combinations. *cough* I will not explain further.

I do accept the premise and I did discover they share quite a bunch of traits, but it confused me a while what made them cross the boundary, and it was, physical attraction (that the book was selling so hard I was blushing hot). I love them both a lot, and I would like to date them both, and I can see myself in either of them. Again comes the contradiction, is it a good thing to have characters so easily projectable, or do I want to see myself in more complex characters like them?

I probably lost quite a few cars stalling this train of thought. And I've been a canon apologist since forever. This book brought me a lot of emotional upheavals and a lot of food for thought. It brought me down to reflect on my romantic worldview and sexuality because I have nothing better to do. It totally challenged me as a writer and it’s just a really good novel by its right, regardless of the absurdity that is The Clone Wars. It’s a lot of firsts for me. And I really should find something better to do.

[26th April 16:00]

I must address that I got spoiled of the ending and the first and second half of the book probably went through some big changes.

If I cried for this book, it’s score would be even higher. And I’ve been so obsessed with discussing the relationship, without shedding light on the characterization, which is definitely an unfortunate side effect. Then it occurs that quite possibly the second half (26-42) deviated even further from the script than the first? It doesn’t have concept art or blocking, plus possibly (heavily) edited to omit correlation to other arcs. My major complaint for the second half is Ventress doesn’t do much and we know NOTHING about Vos, even though he is given screen time in the book. my, I just wish Ventress punch him harder and drag his idiotic mess back to the light sooner.

And to criticism about it being their ‘toxic’ relationship being portrayed as ‘true love’, well, it really depends on how thoughtful the reader is, right? I think if the reader is able to notice all these red flags and gave their own interpretation of the relationship and its outcome, it’d’ve been an educating experience. There’s what for the reader and what for the characters. They don’t know this ‘love’ is destroying them, and what kind of message is it sending? What ‘love’ depicted in the book is true then? I have my answers, and I hope every reader comes to their own as well.

#dark disciple #sw reading #clean version #i yell 'EXCEPT THE FLIRTY PART' every three scenes

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twilightofthe · 5 years ago

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Tell me ALL your SW faves

Aaaaaa thank you! This took a while cuz this got long, lol sorry! Aight, so here’s ALL my SW faves for this ask prompt list!

FAVE MOVIE: Revenge of the Sith. 10000%. It just has everything! You get to see the Obikin relationship in all its glory, first and foremost, how much those two loved each other more than anything and knew each other better than anyone, and just how much they genuinely got along and then we got our hearts broken watching them have to fight after Anakin made his Goof Of The Millennium and just oooooof all the feels about my boys! Seeing Padmé and just loving her so gotdang much for being strong and wanting the best life for everyone, all while she was so scared and had so little support from anyone, and just couldn’t do it in the end. Seeing the end of the Republic, how after a thousand years, just, *poof*, just like that in like two days (yes, I know Sidious was planning it for over a decade but still), the horrific fascination on how Sidious was able to do that. Just the brilliance of Sheev’s character, how you despise him, but how brilliantly everything was pulled off. The angst of Order 66, how especially after TCW you love these characters SO MUCH and then you gotta watch them DIE HORRIBLY BY THOSE THEY TRUSTED, THOSE WHO NEVER HAD A CHOICE EITHER. Did I mention feeling so freaking bad for Obi Wan and his Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad Day??? Because I really do, he’s so good and kind and we see his life fall apart and ugh I love him. And y’all, watching Anakin Skywalker fall from grace like the brightest angel he was, you hate him for what he did, but you still can’t help but love him and cry for him and his loss because he was so good, and he did not deserve all this to happen to him but he did it to HIMSELF AAAAGGHHHH. Also, Obes and Ani were at peak prettiness this movie!! Just asdfkjglkdskajsrlk best movie love so diggity dang much

FAVE PAIRING: Oh, how EVER will I choose– Obikin. It’s Obikin, all the way, no contest. I know I’ve yelled about it a million and one times so I’ll save y’all the rant on how much I adore these disasters and their relationship and how I think they’re goddamn soulmates and the most interesting dynamic in the entire Saga. I ship them romantically and platonically and just everything, they’re so fucking important to one another and that’s why it hurts so much to watch them fall apart, and that’s why I’m so incredibly happy that they get to canONICALLY SPEND THEIR ENTIRE AFTERLIFE TOGETHER BECAUSE FORCE GHOSTS HELL YEAH. If I had to pick just secondary fave romantic and platonic relationships, hmmmm that’s hard. BUT, I’m gonna have to go with Kanera for romantic; SWR was what got me back into Star Wars and one of my favorite parts of it was watching Kanan and Hera, how much I loved them separately, but just how much they were a team together and I love them and I was unbelievably upset when Jedi Night happened (and I still have a rant about how animated Star Wars kills off their romantic couples in the exact same manner, pls ask me about how TCW’s The Lawless and Rebels’ Jedi Night had basically all of the same plot points that ended in killing off a romantic lead). For other fave platonic relationship, gonna have to go with Luke/Han/Leia BROT3 (separate from Hanleia as a romance, which is probs my 3rd fave). These disasters were the original Golden Trio, they saved the galaxy together all while yelling dramatically and having each other’s backs to the bitter end (or, at least ‘till the end of ROTJ lol) and I just love them as a team so dang much

FAVE TV SHOW EPISODE: Okay, since there are four TV shows, it’s only fair for me to pick one (or more don’t judge me) from each! Let’s see, from The Clone Wars, my fave eps have to be the entire Mortis trilogy arc in S3 because Obes/Ani/Snips family dynamic, Force Shenanigans, BEAUTIFUL scene designs, Anakin angst, just so many good things oof, and also Dooku Captured from S1, which I just adore because Obikin snark, annoying Grandpa Dooku, Hondo Fucking Ohnaka making everyone look so bad at their jobs, I just love it agh. Whoops that was technically four faves, so gotta do four for Rebels too! Gonna go wiiiiith World Between Worlds from S4 for Badass Ahsoka Tano, Ezra being brave and talented, Sheev being Absolutely Ridiculous, and just the overall Force Shenanigans cuz canon time travel y’all; The Lost Commanders from S2 because Rex is awesome, Kanan angst, and really good Kanan and Ezra bonding and Jedi awesomeness, Fire Across the Galaxy from S1 because of Ghost fam dynamics, Kanan angst, more Kanan and Ezra bonding, and just good stuff, and Twilight of the Apprentice in S2 (lol what about my username?) for being creepy and cool and maKING ME CRY ANAKIN YOU STUPID THRICE COOKED TOILET SEAT LEAVE AHSOKA ALONE. *cough* Ok, fine, I’ll stick with only one ep for the other two series. For Resistance, gonna have to go with the latest ep, actually! We get to see Kaz being clever and caring about his fam on the Colossus, really cool designs for Aeos and its people, Tam angst, and just everyone shining! For The Mandalorian, it’s gotta be the finale, Redemption, we get Din name, Armorer kicking everyones asses and me loving it, BABY YODA DOING THE HAND WAVE, Din getting over his issues with droids and connecting with IG only for IG to FUCKING DIE, DIN AND BABY YODA BEING AN OFFICIAL CLAN OF TWO, Taika just knocking this whole episode out of the park with the funny scouttroopers at the beginning who still deserved the ass-whooping they got for fucking murdering Kuiil and hiTTING BABY YODA YOU SLIMY FUCKNUGGETS–

FAVE CHARACTER: Alright, look, I can narrow it down to FIVE and that is IT. I just love too many Star Wars characters, I can’t go lower than top five! Ok, so my four favorites are Obi Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker, Leia Organa, Kanan Jarrus, and Finn Skywalker-Dameron-Tico (i SAID what i SAID.) AIGHT so for starters, a lot of my favorite characters in different franchises fall under various archetypes I have for faves. Obi Wan fits one of my more popular ones: “Old, reluctant and more than slightly-questionable parental badass with a mysterious past that makes you love them all the more when you realize just how beautiful and tragic and deserving-better they were when that past is revealed”. I latched onto this dude from the start when I just liked the OT (tho Leia was always my fave lol), and I wanted to know about him, and then when I finally started getting into the PT and TCW, it was just a steady stream of “oh no he’s hOT?” “oh no he’s sAD?” “oh no he’s nICE?!? REALLY FUCKING NICE AND A BIT OF A MESS HELP” and then I just totally latched on because he’s hypercompetent at literally everything and looks damn good doing it and boy do I have a thing for competence, charming as all hell and goes through so much and comes out strong despite the fact that fate hates his fucking guts and tries to destroy his life constantly and guys he tries so hard and he’s kind of messy sometimes and a bit of a dick and I love him all the more for it because he’s trying, none of that do-or-do-not shit, he is doing his damn best and deserves happiness and not Anakin tearing him apart. SPEAKING OF SAND MAN. Ugh, so I love Anakin to fucking death and that makes me REALLY MAD ABOUT IT BECAUSE HE MAKES EVERYONE ELSE I LIKE SAD. So I love Anakin regardless because he’s not your typical protagonist. He’s fucking brilliant, hot when he fights, is amazing at fighting and flying and building stuff and there’s that competence thing for me again, oh boy! He’s funny and kind and he cares. And somehow, this bitch manages to have the two most beautiful, amazing people in the galaxy in love with him and willing to do basically anything for him like the fuck?!? Jealous much??!?!?!?! I am!!!! He’s so fucking bright and it’s impossible to look away. He’s also a dorky, messy disaster who’s not good with people or feelings or emotions and he panics over stuff and doesn’t know self-control and is kinda really bad at his job a lot and pushes away the people who care about him and screws up literally all the fucking time and he always feels like he’s drowning and alone and I get to watch him crash and burn under the weight of it all. Basically, minus the anger issues and the child murder and the murder in general, I kinda relate a lot to Anakin. I feel like a self-hating mess who doesn’t know how to control my ow head and the world hates me a lot too. I can project my mental issues onto him, enjoy the good parts of him, live vicariously through the things he does that I can’t like be loved by pretty people and be hot and athletic and smart, and then when he crashes I can side-eye and remember that at least someone’s doing worse than me lol. So yea, I love this messy boi to death and he’s the one I get the best characterization reviews on, so I guess we have an understanding. Leia I loved since as a kid. I’d want to be her, brave, talented, smart, strong as hell and snarky to boot. I realize that Leia fits another fave character archetype of mine: “Powerful young adult raised for greatness, did not ask for all the horrible shit that’s happened to them, highkey wants a break and for the bad guys to just roll over and die, is generally clever, hypercompetent, and 100% done with everyone else’s shit, overdramatic as all hell and enjoys insulting people”. Her and Han were my first Star Wars ship and she just always made me happy seeing her kick names and take ass. She’s gone through almost as much hell or maybe more so than Obi Wan, she also keeps getting back up and fighting, she deserved SO MUCH BETTER than what the Sequel Trilogy gave her and you may quote me on that. She’s also gorgeous and I wanted to wear all of her clothes (bikini not included). I also love her relationship with Luke and I am so goddam happy it is now canon that Leia Organa did Jedi training and can use a lightsaber!!! She has a lightsaber!!!!!!!!!! Ugh oof I love her. Kanan fills the similar “mentor” archetype as Obi Wan does, but with a smidge of youth because he’s younger when he gets dropped into this role. He’s more of a punk, more of a mess, and oof. Basically I’ve said it a zillion times how Rebels resparked my love of Star Wars, but really, it was Kanan on the screen that did it. It happened when the Rebels season 3 premiere eps ended up on the TV and I saw it and I thought in order 1. holy shit that Maul fucker’s actually alive? and 2. Oh no sad blind Jedi man! He’s cool and mysterious and I want to know why he’s sad and who made him sad and also want to give him a hug!!! He was my fave character all throughout Rebels and his training dynamic with Ezra, struggling to help this kid all while flying by the seat of his pants because he had Issues and no clue what he was doing and no support and ugh, he was smart and brave and I’m so sad he’s dead and yea. Finn!!!! Last but not least!!!! He was my favorite character from The Force Awakens. People have said it before, but he was just so new, a rebel Stormtrooper stolen and brainwashed at birth, finding the good guys and fighting to do the right thing! Possibly Force Sensitive! Super duper cute!!! Funny and kind, dammit, when not many other people in the galaxy were!!!!!!!! I was so, so sure Finn was gonna be a Jedi along with Rey at some point, that might have been my biggest letdown when I saw TLJ, but ugh I just loved his enthusiasm and his war within himself, ultimately loving his friends and trying to do what was right at the risk to his own safety, even though that was why he ran scared in the first place!!!!! I shipped him with Rey and with Poe and now I am NOT above the post TROS Jedistormpilot shipping!!!!! Finn was just always the most interesting part of the Sequel Trilogy for me and I personally feel like they could have done more with his character.

FAVE ACTOR/ACTRESS: Aight, so I try my best not to “stan” anyone famous because literally no one is perfect and everyone’s done something problematic at some point and if I dare say I like a famous figure, someone’s gonna find something about them and come after me all “OMG THIS PERSON DID/SAID/IS X YOU MONSTER GO DIE!!11!!1″. In terms of performance, I think all the actors in Star Wars did a lovely job and I’m happy with all of them! If I had to crush on any, it would probs be Ewan McGregor, John Boyega, or Diego Luna cuz, uh, they hot. If I had to pick one I liked most, it would honestly probs be Carrie Fisher. Maybe that’s just partially from missing her now that she’s gone, but I really admire her advocacy and transparence for mental health, and she just seemed like such a funny, kind, strong person.

FAVE PLANET: Aight, this is HARD and I refuse to only pick one planet! Ok, gonna start off with Coruscant because an endless city planet made up of lights is amazingly gorgeous and it has a Jedi Temple stacked on top of a Sith Temple and is just so cool aaaaa. Also love Felucia just for being so bright and colorful and pretty. Mortis for being just as weirdly gorgeous and also Weird Force Shit. Lothal for the beautiful mountains, the wolves, and the fucking lightspeed center of the planet passage what, Dathomir is delightfully creepy to look at, Crait is really cool with the salt and the red and the ice foxes, Kashyyyk because Wookiees and it’s pretty and I love their treehouses. Basically if it makes me clap my dumb monkey hands and go “oooh pretty!”, I love it. The more “not like Earth” it is, the more I love it.

FAVE SPECIES: Hmmmmm, this is a tough one……. There’s just so many cool-looking species that we know so little about, ya know? I wanna say either Togrutas or Wookiees. Togrutas just because the character design is incredible and so fun to work with and also I love Ahsoka, and Wookiees because they have such an interesting culture and backstory and also I want to give Chewbacca a hug.

FAVE CONCEPT: Uhhh, not quite sure I get the question; you mean like just story concept in general? If that’s it, I’m gonna have to go with just the whole concept of the Force and the Jedi in general. I mean George, George my man, what the fuck? How the hell did you come up with this?!? Mystical psychic space wizards with magic abilities to connect with and use the sentient godlike life force that combined the entire galaxy together. Oh and also they have COLORFUL GLOWING LASER SWORDS?!?!? It’s honestly one of the most creative things I’ve seen in popular culture, and that makes me sad that Star Wars now seems to be trying to separate itself from what I think is its most interesting quality because “ugh not EVERYTHING should be about the Jedi guys!”, when like, y’all, without the Jedi, the entire SW universe is basically just another military scifi war story…… Just my opinion tho.

FAVE SHIP: Ok, since pairing was already up there, I assume this means actual ship? Well, uh, gonna have to be square with y’all, I’m a bad Star Wars fan for this part; I’ve never been the one to memorize ship names and designs and know the exact make and model number of some fancy ship, I’m real bad at that lol. I’ll say my favorite ship is the Ghost. Hera flies it and the Rebels Fam lives on it and it’s super cool and it makes me happy!

FAVE WEAPON: LIGHTSABER. LIGHTSABER LIGHTSABER. LIGHTSABERLIGHTSABERLIGHTSABERLIGHTSABERLIGHTSABER. Y’all, c’mon, what did you think I was gonna pick? xD Lizard brain want glowy shiny colorful big stick that goes whoosh!

FAVE BACKGROUND EXTRA: Again, not entirely sure what this means, but do you mean fave background character? If so, then it’s a tie between Wilrow Hood and his ice cream machine for the memes, that one clone in TCW who yeets a plate of toast at Cad Bane’s face, or that one background soldier who scoots between Han and Leia arguing in ESB and also Hera and Kanan arguing in Rebels (yes I do headcanon it’s the same guy lol)

FAVE MOMENT/SCENE: This one’s actually pretty easy. Anakin dying in Luke’s arms in ROTJ, and then his ghost showing up to Luke later at the Ewok party. I just care so ridiculously much about stupid Anakin and his stupid story and mistakes, and even before I was a prequels stan and had only seen the OT (and wasn’t a huge Vader fan, believe it or not), some part of me just felt so solemn, so fragile watching this, watching the giant monstrous machine falling apart as he fades away to reveal a weary, tired old human man, and it always made me wonder, what the hell happened to him to turn him into that thing? Seeing that young, beautiful man, basically Luke’s age, showing up as a ghost later, just the fascination, the tender look he shared with Old Ben, just how young he was, that made it all the more mysterious and knowing what I do now, it’s just so much better because my poor, horrible Disaster Man finally did the right thing and he finally found peace and it’s just the only ending I could be happy for Anakin with, And Luke, I always felt so bad for Luke, being so strong, so brave, finally getting his father back for like five damn minutes and then having to lose him again and just hurting for him but also knowing that it was gonna be okay because Luke had more family now, the ghosts, and Han and Leia and Chewie and R2 and 3PO and Lando and everyone.

FAVE KISS: Luke and Leia (HANG ON LET ME SPEAK) forehead kiss in The Last Jedi. I know (this one) isn’t meant as romantic, and I know the question is probs about a romantic one and I know that it’s not even a real mouth kiss. But. That Luke and Leia scene was my favorite part of the entire movie. Again, I was missing Carrie a lot, and ugh, after all these years, after not getting to interact the entire previous movie and not at all during this movie, the ONE scene with Carrie and Mark and the pure emotion of it all just knocked me out of my fucking seat. You could see how connected they were as siblings, how much Leia had missed Luke, how much he had missed her and how sorry he was for leaving, sorry for Ben, sorry for having to leave her again now, Leia knowing Luke was about to die, and just, acceptance. Love and acceptance. It was just a final, tender kiss on the forehead, and it was perfect and yeah. If I do have to pick a romantic lip smooch, it’s probably the Hanleia classic “scoundrel” kiss in Empire Strikes Back. I still remember watching ESB the first time as a KID and being all eeeeeeee are they gonna– YES they kissed they kissed they kissed finally! and that’s enough for me.

FAVE FIGHT: Obi Wan and Anakin on Mustafar in Revenge of the Sith. WIthout question. It’s brilliantly and precisely choreographed to show the intricate nuances of the Obikin breakup in alllllll of its painful glory. It breaks my heart every time I watch it because every time I watch it I still hope it’s gonna end differently. That Anakin realizes he can’t kill Obi Wan and ditches Sidious and goes back with Obi Wan to save Padmé. That Obi Wan realizes he can’t let Anakin die and saves him from burning and from Sidious and takes him back too. That Obi Wan at least puts Anakin out of his misery which would be godawful painful, but would save him from the horrid life as Vader. That while they’re fighting, a lava monster appears like in the concept art and Vader and Obi Wan have to put aside their differences and fight the thing and remember how much they mean to each other. But ugh, this fight was beautifully choreographed and was originally supposed to be a MULTI-MINUTE SINGLE SHOT WHAT THE HELL??? Oooof Hayden and Ewan did such an amazing job and the whole thing just rips my heart out every time in the bestworst way possible

FAVE LINE OF DIALOGUE: Now THIS is hard, I’m not the best at picking favorite lines. Hmmm, this is HARD. Let me think. Gahhhh, it’s hard because I have so many lines I like and I can’t even just narrow down a couple!!! Ultimately, it’s probably gonna be Yoda’s monologue from Empire Strikes Back: “Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter…” Just that entire line saying how basically all of us are more than the sum of our parts, that everyone is their own sparkling light made of stardust, I loved it as a kid and I love it now.

FAVE BOOK/COMIC: Answered here

FAVE HERO: Gonna go with Obi Wan! I already rambled about why I love him, but y’all……. I love him.

FAVE VILLAIN: Anakin Skywalker/Darth McFucking Vader. I loved him when he was a hero and the silly poor sad boy makes me sad when I see him as a villain all while being an overdramatic asshole and it just makes me wanna hit him with a newspaper for ruining his life and everyone else’s I love him.

FAVE OUTFIT: Answered here

FAVE CREATURE: I love Lothcats/Tookas! I just heckin’ love cats and now there’s spACE KITTIES WITH SUPER FOOFY TAILS AND BIG EARS OMG Y’ALL I LOVE THEM I JUST REALLY DO AND I REALLY WANT ONE SO I CAN CUDDLE IT ;_;

WHEW. That was all of the faves, thanks so much for asking me!!! Sorry this took so long to do, this was kinda a hell week haha!

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atelier-dayz · 5 years ago

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Hello, Anon! (I put this as a separate text post because I needed the “read more” which doesn’t work for asks.)

So I’m not exactly the best person to ask for meta because my knowledge of Star Wars is relatively small compared to some people’s, but I can give it a shot?? Or at least a starting point of discussion coming from my opinion. (If you’re interested, jedi-order-apologist posted two good meta related to Qui-gon a while back here and here for better reads LOL)

I try very, very hard to not have a critical view of him. I really really do. I want to love Qui-gon. I do. When I first saw TPM, I thought he was cool. I’m still sad he died. But then one thing or another comes up and just *sigh* So here are the points about him that do make me critical about him? (There’s a TL;DR at the end if you find it too long.)

***Disclaimer: these are solely my opinions here. I am not the most knowledgeable in Star Wars by far. I base these solely off my experience and understanding of the movies, books, etc. Your mileage may vary***

First off, I should point out we don’t have much canon material of him to work off of. There’s The Phantom Menace and the book Master & Apprentice -- as well as some appearances in The Clone Wars I believe? I haven’t watched TCW yet.

There’s also the Star Wars - Age of Republic: Heroes - Qui-gon comic, but it doesn’t reveal too much about his character, at least to me, other than showing him questioning the role and path of the Jedi and finding that balance is the key. *shrugs*

Anyways, from The Phantom Menace, we are made to understand that he’s the type of person to push the envelope, who apparently goes against the Council enough for Obi-wan to bring it up. We don’t get details on how he does it those times, only Obi-wan saying “[The Council] will not go along with you this time.” Which implies he has successfully argued his way before (or possibly gone his own way and asked for permission after?).

Being a rebel is not a bad thing. A lot of our media is all about being the rebel, going against the grain, and etc. However, some people in the fandom take that to mean it’s the only correct answer, and use that as an argument that the Jedi were awful people, who needed reform and didn’t deserve to live otherwise, and etc. But clearly, Qui-gon doesn’t disagree with the Jedi to the extent that he would leave them. He’s clearly still a Jedi and believes in the Jedi philosophy.

Qui-gon is a big follower of the Living Force, of focusing on the “here and now,” as he tells Obi-wan in the beginning of the movie. He’s squarely about the present and taking things as they come. -- And yet, he’s also remarkably fixated on the prophecy, which is very much not a matter of the present in my opinion. He is very insistent on Anakin being the Chosen One and therefore should be trained as a Jedi -- to the point where he say “I will do what I must.” So basically, it’s his way or the highway. He will take no other interpretation, even if there’s no concrete evidence that Anakin is the Chosen One.

My impression of him is that he will follow the way that he believes is correct or believes that the Force tells him is correct, and will leave no room for anything else. The casualty of this in TPM: Obi-wan. When Obi-wan warns him the Council won’t agree with him, Qui-gon tells him, “You still have much to learn, my young apprentice.” Fast-forward to later that SAME DAY, when he discovers the Council will not take on Anakin (based reasonably enough on the results of their testing and long-standing rules), he tries to claim Anakin as his padawan when Obi-wan, his actual padawan, is standing right there next to him. When the Council reminds him he has a padawan already, he pushes for Obi-wan’s Trials, and says, “He’s headstrong, and he has much to learn about the living Force, but he is capable. There is little more he will learn from me.” Obi-wan’s Trials was never something brought up before, from what I understand. He basically said hours before that Obi-wan wasn’t ready, and now he’s saying he is. I’m sure he doesn’t mean to hurt Obi-wan in this situation. He’s doing what he thinks he has to in order to have Anakin part of the Order. But it’s NOT COOL to throw away your existing apprentice at the expense of it.

This whole fiasco of a scene is what has me very mad at Qui-gon a lot of times. Overall, it’s not a flattering view of him. As I like to say, his intentions are good, his execution is very very poor.

(He and Obi-wan later make up, but I for one am still upset at him on Obi’s behalf. Especially when Qui-gon’s final words later on is to train Anakin. That’s it. Doing what he must to make sure Anakin is trained. And Obi-wan will of course honor that request, which is a giant undertaking I personally believe he shouldn’t have been burdened with, having just lost his master and just become a new knight through combat. No one in his position would have been ready for that.)

(Addition: he also never mentions to the Council or even Obi-wan from the looks of it that Anakin was a slave. This, I honestly think, is critical information that should have been expressed. For whatever reasons, he did not mention it.)

I can’t speak about his characterization in Master & Apprentice, because I haven’t read that book yet. (It’s on my shelf, I’ll get to it eventually!) I have been warned and heard that he is quite a frustrating character in it that makes you want to throw the book and go “DAMMIT QUI-GON.” So take that as you will.

All of this is just taking account of canon. If you take into account EU/Legends content, oh boy, is that even less flattering. Get ready Anon. I present to you, Jedi Apprentice. Otherwise known as “The reasons why Obi-wan has needed a nap and hugs since he was twelve.”)

So in Legends, there’s an age-cut off for becoming a padawan at 13. Obi-wan’s last chance at becoming a padawan was with Qui-gon as his master. Due to the trauma of his second padawan Falling, Qui-gon renounced his first padawan, who was already a Knight at this point, and had since refused any other padawans. (It is implied that he has crushed the dreams of many children, yes.) So Qui-gon summarily said no to Obi-wan. And due to a fight and wrongful accusations by a rival/bully, Obi-wan gets sent off early to Agricorps on Bandomeer (a whole mess of thing in itself, but I digress). Anyways, coincidentally, Qui-gon is also on the same ship to Bandomeer on a mission. After...a wild ride (and Qui-gon taking the time to shoot down Obi-wan’s hopes of becoming a Knight a second time) and multiple events (including Obi-wan ending up as a mining slave), Qui-gon waffles a bit about possibly taking Obi-wan as his padawan, and then there’s a whole confrontation involving Qui-gon’s Fallen former padawan that ends with Qui-gon officially taking Obi-wan as his apprentice after Obi-wan offers to blow himself up to help Qui-gon escape and save the miners. --- This naturally makes the Council scene in TPM even worse.

Fast-forward to Obi-wan’s second official mission with Qui-gon, they end up in the wartorn Melida/Daan, where they were to retrieve the injured Master Tahl (Qui-gon’s love interest). (Yes, his second mission. I’m not counting Phindar because that was a very unfortunate detour that turned into a mission. They went Bandomeer --> Phindar --> Gala --> Melida/Daan. No time skips that I picked up. Their ship to Melida/Daan was offered to them by Gala’s Queen.) Obi-wan felt that they needed to do more, that they needed to help the youth on the planet stop the fighting and achieve peace. Qui-gon wants to bring Tahl back to the Temple at once, and basically gives him an ultimatum...and then leaves his 13 year old barely new apprentice WITHOUT A LIGHTSABER in an ACTIVE WARZONE where the combatants have shown NO qualms in killing children OR Jedi. Qui-gon goes back -- eventually -- after Obi-wan messages for help, and after several events, takes Obi-wan back as his padawan.

The other big strike against Qui-gon would again involve Master Tahl, in which after she is killed, he mourns her to the point of absolutely neglecting Obi-wan. I haven’t re-read that part yet, but yeah, that happened in the EU.

So basically, in Jedi Apprentice, you get a good number of scenes where Qui-gon clearly cares for Obi-wan, is fond of him, etc. There are ways in which they connect with each other very well, and their thoughts reflect each other’s, which points to how they are in fact a good match as master and apprentice and is lovely to see. But he is also at times very uncommunicative and neglectful and...not a very good Master or someone that should be responsible for children by the looks of it. (All of which is probably rooted back to the trauma of his Fallen padawan.)

The whole caveat of all this is that these are all not canon now. These were also obviously books meant for kids, so when reading them as an adult, things become very very unflattering and there’s some hand-waving and logic that just makes you go UMM?

The short of it: my main issues with Qui-gon are 1) in canon, throwing Obi-wan under the bus in that Council scene, 2) in EU, being at times a neglectful Master who shouldn’t have been responsible for children, and 3) unrelated to canon or EU but becoming more and more a big part of my negative feelings towards Qui-gon, the way certain parts of fandom choose to prop Qui-gon up on a pedestal as the One Good Jedi who knew better than the rest of the Jedi, and they build him up by wrongfully tearing down other characters.

#miya rambles #meta #ish #anonymous #asks

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theabominableblogger · 7 years ago

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Rewatching “The Lawless” in TCW

Part 1 2 3 4 5 6 of the Darth Maul arc

Expect a lot of yelling in this episode.

The Netflix description of this episode: “Using Duchess Satine as bait, the vengeful Darth Maul lures Obi-Wan into a trap. Drunk with power, Maul declares himself the true Sith Lord.”

Two things. 1) Oh buddy, wait until the end of this episode. 2) Why do I suddenly imagine Maul and Savage just waving around bottles, going “HoLy CrAp we’re so cool!”

Korkie!

Can we get some more Satine and Bo-Katan moments, please?

I forgot how cool Coruscant looks at night.

Oh God, Obi-Wan...

Take a shot every time the scenario of “Oh we can’t go here because of our political and military standing but someone’s gonna go anyway and try to save the day” pops up in this show.

There’s Sam Witwer’s tells: whenever he says “friend” or something that starts with “new/neu” like “neutrality”

It’s the Twilight!

Obi-Wan when it comes to ships: Everything’s fine here! Everything’s fine!

NOTHING TO SEE HERE! YOU CAN GO ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS! MOVE ALONG!

That’s the quickest costume change I’ve ever seen.

Aren’t those the poison dudes from S3 during the Padme and Satine team-up episode?

YES! HUG!

“As always, my dear.” AAAHHH!!!

That Death Watch trooper is Clancy Brown.

*Maul watches the Twilight spin out of control* You piece of shit

Dramatic Hair Flop of Angst!

OH GOD THE SCENE!

HECK NO

NOT THIS MUSIC

GOD AND MAUL KNOWS ABOUT OBI-WAN AND SATINE!

“You can kill me, but you will never destroy me.” God what an awesome line.

The dialogue in this scene is freaking fantastic.

I have this screencap saved on my Snapchat memories with the caption “KENOBI!”

*Maul stabs Satine* GOD. DAMMIT. WHY.

RIGHT AFTER HE STABS HER, HE FREAKING LOOKS RIGHT AT OBI-WAN! I’M MAD.

THIS IS LIKE IN “JESSICA JONES,” WHEN KILGRAVE ORDERS TRISH TO KISS HIM AND LOOKS RIGHT AT JESSICA THE ENTIRE TIME

I'm not happy.

GOD

I’M NOT HAPPY

THEY FREAKING ANIMATED OBI-WAN’S EYES TEARING UP!

CAN WE STOP GIVING OBI-WAN A TERRIBLE LIFE, WRITERS?!?!?

*Obi-Wan kisses Satine’s hand* I’m done. I’m done.

*sighs and rubs face*

This music is awesome.

Freaking Obi-Wan...

*Darth Sidious arrives on Mandalore* Yo yo yo, it’s Mr. Kill Your Bro

That shot is amazing. You can totally feel just how worn out and done Obi-Wan is with this whole thing but we know that he knows that there’s more to be done..

“Maul must really want you dead.” “You have no idea.” That’s the tagline for this entire arc.

“I sense a presence... a presence I haven’t felt since... Master!” Oh here we go!

God, this whole scene is amazing.

“You’re Satine’s sister, aren’t you? I’m so sorry.” *sigh*

And cue the parallels to the end fight in “The Phantom Menace”

Maul gets separated from the fight and watches from a good distance away as Sidious fights and kills Savage.

Maul freaking runs past Sidious in order to get to Savage.

This episode right here is what cements 50% of Maul’s characterization. He views Savage as an apprentice this entire arc and he doesn’t realize that a brotherly connection is what he’s actually been missing and craving this entire time until Savage dies. This moment right here is the main reason why Maul quits being a Sith (but doesn’t quit practicing their beliefs) because he realizes that “Holy crap, I actually care for my brother,” which is not in the Sith philosophy.

This actually gets a lot more heartbreaking in Rebels near the end of “Visions and Voices.” This right here is the reason why I actually yelled watching that episode. When he asks Ezra to be his apprentice, he’s actually asking him to be a brother (he’s emphatic toward Ezra since they’ve both lost family to the enemy).

Damn it, Filoni.

Plus, Obi-Wan very neatly breaks this down for Maul in “Twin Suns”

If you look really carefully, you can actually see Savage turn back into his former self, especially in the hands. The hands actually shrink.

The freaking animation is amazing. I don’t know how many times I’ve said that throughout this arc but it’s awesome.

The animation company HAD to bump up the animation quality in order to portray Maul correctly. Give them all the gold stars.

Shock. Denial. Full on rage.

If you look really carefully, Maul is actually twitching with anger. Damn.

Seriously, where can I find the “Son of Dathomir” comic?

“Don’t worry; I’m not to kill you.” I’m just gonna hurt you really, really bad.

*the episode ends with the main ending theme as Sidious tortures Maul* TALK ABOUT A FREAKING MOOD WHIPLASH!!!!

#the blogger reacts #the lawless #star wars the clone wars #swtcw #obi wan kenobi #satine kryze #obitine #darth maul #savage opress #darth sidious #bo katan kryze #freaking dave filoni #pretty sure i just ruined my voice rewatching this show #son of dathomir

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i-aim-to-overanalyze · 8 years ago

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Fanfic writers meme: 3, 4, 6, 7, 10, 13, 14, 17, 19, 20, 27, 39, 40, 42, 45, 46, and 50 (my question for #50 is: Your favourite character from any of your fandoms (pick one or several characters you like) is writing a fanfic STARRING YOU AS A CHARACTER. Regarding this fact, what kind of fanfic do you think he/she/they are writing about and how would you feel about you literally being in it?)

Thank you so much for sending in an ask! :D

3. Name three favorite writers.

Ahh, this is a toughie! I’m going to list three writers from different fandoms that I admire a lot.

A. Anappleofdiscord from fanfiction.net I’m pretty sure she doesn’t have a tumblr and even tho it’s been forever since I spoken with her personally, she is an awesome person and an awesome writer. She writes for the Hetalia fandom, focusing on gen stuff centering around England and America. If you know anything about the Hetalia fandom, it’s ridiculously rare to find platonic fics about these two and her fics are like the cream of the crop. Her characterizations are on point, her fics are educational and hilarious (and also a rollarcoaster of emotions) plus she pulls off OCs superbly. If you ever check out her fics, tell her that Listenerofshadows sent you ;)

B. Glimare from fanfiction.net I don’t know her personally, but I love her work in the DC fandom. Sadly, she’s since mostly moved on to other fandoms (which is great for her, if the feeling’s not there, don’t push yourself to write fanfic for certain fandoms) but she has a TON of content and it’s all so good. Her most-well known work is a collection of one-shots known as “Daddy, Not Bats”. It’s an AU where Bruce encounters the bat-kids at a younger age and decides to retire to raise them all. It’s sweet, fluffy and angsty all rolled into one.

C. @elfpen from AO3, Fanfiction.net and Tumblr. I stumbled across her fanfic Reprise when looking for a good star wars time-travel fanfic to satisfy my needs and boy, DOES SHE DELIVER. Most time-travel fics center around the OT era or Obiwan and/or Anakin traveling to TPM, but hers focus on OT!Obiwan traveling back to the era BEFORE TPM. It’s a great fic, I love the characterizations and her OCs are on-point. Not to mention, she also has a lot of other awesome SW and HTTYD content.

Putting everything else under the cut because this is gonna get long quick!

4. Name three authors that were influential to your work and why.

A. Anappleofdiscord, again. Because she has actually beta’d my work before and given me great writing advice. I haven’t finished Neverlast, nor barely touched on it, but I��m thankful for her influence she’s played on it.

B. It’s hard to pinpoint my inspiration for my writing, because it’s kinda an intuitive thing? Like, I’ll be writing and a phrase comes up and I’m like “I know I stole that phrase from some fanfic lol” but i don’t know which one??? But basically all the fanfic writers I love are legions above me and I admire them all. But I have to say, I’ve started writing more third-person present tense because of a few good fanfics (but I can’t pinpoint which ones) which it’s a rare tense for a novel to pursue but I love the rhythm of it.

6. How did writing change you?

I’ve been writing before I could even write. Basically as a little four-year-old, I’d make pictures and then dictate to my older sister/mom what the pictures were about, essentially creating a storybook out of it. Since writing has been part of my life for so long, it’s so innate to me like breathing air. I know there’s a lot I could improve on writing, but it’s just a freeing way for me to express myself in a clear and concise manner. In real life, I can be awkward in how I word things and I have a tendency to trip over words or don’t fully pronounce my th-s and s-es. Fanfiction is great because I can explore my favorite concepts of a fanfic in a medium that people can enjoy reading in :)

7. Early influences of your writing

Once I discovered reading was fun (I didn’t learn to read until 2nd grade but that’s okay, because once I did I was reading several grades above my level) I devoured books. Some of my favorite books as a child are: PJO, Chronicles of Narnia, Boxcar Children and Black Beauty. I also did some RPG’ing at a young age, which greatly improved my writing as the constant writing at a rapid pace forced my writing to improve exponentially. There were roleplayers that I admired greatly that I imitated because I wanted my writing to be as good as theirs.

10. how do you do your researches?

Google, man, Google. For example let’s say my fanfic is a historical AU. I know a lot about history, but I might look up a historical site to proofcheck my dates or phrases of the time. Fanfic is nice, because it gives you an excuse to rewatch your favorite show if you wanna make sure you nail the characterizations. I might just look at a fan wiki if it’s a minor detail like what’s Ahsoka’s smaller lightsaber called.

13. Hardest character to write

Oohhh boy! I think everyone can agree that Yoda and Darth Vader are the two toughest SW characters to write for. It’s hard to get into the head of a 900 yr old troll and Vader is just…really hard? Palpatine is also hard not to make him the typical cookie-cutter villian (Which he is, but I’d like to try to give him some depth). I feel like I write a different take of Anakin every time I write a different AU involving him, but I think that’s because the AUs are at different points of his life and also the AU effects his reaction to things.

14. Easiest character to write.

I know it’s contradictory, but Anakin. He’s definitely chaotic good and it’s fun to write that archtype. I haven’t written much Obiwan (actually I have, but I can’t post it until I write the chapters bridging to him :/) but he’s more lawful good compared to Anakin and throwing those two into the same fic is fun to see. Padme is a fun one to write as well as Ahsoka.

17. Favorite AU to write

I have so many AUs so again, hard choice. Gotta say Impetus, since it’s the most I have written for and I love it. It deals more with the traumatizing effects that slavery/the Jedi have inflicted on Anakin plus an even more problematic Palpatine. I didn’t mean to recreate Palpatine in that fashion he’s basically a pedophile in this AU, the characters kinda just made it happen and I ran with it. It was supposed to be a humorous/fluffy what-if but like everything I touch, it’s also angsty ( ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

19. Favorite fandom to write for

My favorite fandom to write for naturally changes with my interests. I was obsessed with YJ for a while, then Hetalia and now SW. Star Wars is fun to write for because there’s a big audience and it’s pretty easy to find a pocket audience who love the same types of things that you do. YJ will always be my first love. I’m currently writing a fanfic for a YJ fandom event, but I’ve been kinda struggling? I’ve lost my enthusiasm writing-wise even tho I still love it to bits.

20. Favorite Character to Write.

Anakin, probably. It’s funny because I used to never like the PT, but the Clone Wars changed all that. It’s a shame that Lucas went the direction he did for Anakin in PT because TCW uncovered a problematic but likeable hero and I wish we could’ve seen that live-action (It’s not Hayden’s fault btw, the director is the one responsible for what portrayal the actor gives)

27. Best review you ever got.

Okay, so. I used to share an account on FF.Net with a friend and I wrote of a lot of YJ fanfics. One of them was a gen one-shot involving Bart and Jaime that received a good amount of attention. AND A REALLY GOOD FANFIC AUTHOR THAT I ADMIRED AND LOOKED UP TO REVIEWED MY FIC AND I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN OVER IT. I never in a million years imagined that my favorite authors potentially read my fanfics, let alone review/favorite it.

39. Do you want to be published some day?

Kinda. As a kid I’ve always wanted to get published but now I’m not so sure. I’ve never finished any fics other than one-shots and that really has gotten to me. My current goal is to finish at least one of my fanfics but I think I’ve been putting it off because I’m afraid it’s impossible to acccomplish. It’s silly, I know. I just need to do it.

40. Which one of your stories do would you most like to see as a movie/series?

Hmmm….probably my one-shot involving those two bounty hunter OCs. I could just see them trying to survive the universe with the least amount of weird space stuff happening but they seem to get pulled into it anyway. Those two are actually the easiest OCs for me to write, btw.

42. Do you plan or do you write whatever comes to mind?

I’m a weird creature. In life, I like to know things ahead of time. I like things to run exactly the way I planned. I don’t like unexpected variables. but in writing…I rarely outline. I usually write whatever is on my mind. Pure inspiration is awesome…until it runs out and feels like you’re pulling teeth to just to write a single sentence. That’s when I attempt to outline things.

45. Share the synopsis of a story you haven’t published yet

“Whatis love? To a young child slave, it is the words his mother used to caress himafter a brutal beating by their master. It is wrapped in the kisses she givesto each bruise and lullabies that lull him to sleep.” A meta on Anakin’s varying views of love a crappy summary authored by moi

46. Share a scene of a story you haven’t published yet.

Welp. Might as well share from the above fic.

Whatis love? To a young child slave, it is the words his mother used to caress himafter a brutal beating by their master. It is wrapped in the kisses she givesto each bruise and lullabies that lull him to sleep.

Hismaster can freely touch every part of him he wishes. He can say words to him—hecan do anything he like to him.

Hecan say things like, “You know I love you, boy?” and the slave obedientlyanswers, “Yes, master.”

He’sso very young, but he knows that his master’s words and touch are not love.Only his mother’s is. He doesn’t know how to describe it. But he can feel thewarmth behind them, like hovering over a fire on a cold desert night. They arelike a thick blanket made of bantha furs, soft and comforting. They melt awayhis tears and fill his lungs with laughter.

Everyday, his mother tells him “I love you Ani.” and Ani, the slave boy, freelyreplies, “I love you too, Mom!”

Hefollows by her example, smothering her with hugs and tells her silly stories tohear her laughter that rings like the bells at the market stands. Because heknows love is the best medicine to heal anyone. It makes them feel fuzzy insideand they don’t feel so sad knowing someone cares about them.

Hismom gets sad a lot, so he does his best to repel the sadness away. He doesn’tget angry when she’s sad, because she isn’t angry when he’s sad.

“It’sokay to be sad,” She tells him one night as she runs her hands through hishair, “Everyone gets sad, just like how everyone gets angry or happy.”

“Mastersdon’t like it when we’re angry though.” Anakin pouted.

Shepauses; looking down at her son with a sad smile, “No matter what they say,you’re allowed to feel angry, Ani. Bundle it up, and keep it to yourself—andrelease it when they aren’t looking.”

“Areyou ever angry, mom?” He yawned as he snuggled closer.

“Yes.”His mother breathed deeply, and he could feel a bit of her anger—for aninstant.

It ishot—not warm like Love’s fire. No, it burns and consumes him for a moment. Itreminds him of all the bruises and welts that his masters have given him. Angeris selfish and doesn’t love. He doesn’t like seeing the giver of his Love feelthis way. He internally sighs in relief when her anger melts away as he told atale about a funny customer that came in that day.

Hehas never truly felt anger. He flinches from its’ touch and refuses to feel theemotion that his masters are fond of.

50. Your favourite character from any of your fandoms (pick one or several characters you like) is writing a fanfic STARRING YOU AS A CHARACTER. Regarding this fact, what kind of fanfic do you think he/she/they are writing about and how would you feel about you literally being in it?)

I feel like everyone relates when I say I don’t think my life is interesting. I’d pick Cassie from YJ because I feel like she’d be the type to write fanfic. I will say one ironic moment in my life is that I starred in a play as a shy bookworm girl who got the lead role in her school play alongside her crush, the star basketball player, incidentally they ended up together in the end. Everyone irl teased me about this but the truth is….I actually had a crush on the actor himself. We’ve known each other for years and are good friends. And the closest I ever gotten to “kissing” him was a moment in the play where our characters almost kissed before being interrupted by other students. But of course nothing real came of the play and we still remain good friends. I always note in my head that the hollywood version is that we…would’ve hooked up in the end. I’m sure if I was a fictional character and Cassie shipped me with him and we didn’t get together in the end, she’d be writing a fix-it fic where our pairing is the true pairing in the end. If i wasn’t fictional, I’d feel really weirded out by it. I don’t like fic involving real people in it, especially if it involves ships. I’m almost 90% sure this guy doesn’t have a crush on me and just regards as friends. Which is okay, because I’m not sure if I even want a relationship at the moment.

#sw #yj #fanfic #fanfic writer ask meme

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rocket-sith · 8 years ago

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The "BPD Anakin" Theory is Overlooking Some Crucial Shit - a long rambly meta objection

Suiting up in my flame proof armor for this one, but submitted for the approval of the Midnight Society jury…

The BPD Anakin theory is gundark bollocks.

I’ve seen this theory getting bandied about a lot, and it’s never sat quite right with me. It finally clicked that the reason why it doesn’t sit right is because the entire argument is hinged upon ignoring nearly all the situational and cultural factors in Anakin’s world, and “diagnosing” him in a vacuum. This is tantamount to arresting someone for yelling FIRE! in a crowded theater when there actually is a fire.

Simply put, a lot of the defenses I’ve seen of the theory fail to take into account that in order for a disorder to be present, the person’s thoughts and behaviors have to actually be disordered, and they also have to be pervasive. Patterns of thought and behavior that are reasonable within context are not disordered. (If someone’s yelling “fire!” in a crowded theater, it’s not unreasonable if there actually is a fire.) Thoughts and behaviors that we don’t see until the tail end of RotS where Sidious has manipulated Anakin into what can only be described as a psychological break are not pervasive. (I’d also argue that some of them aren’t even really Anakin’s - he’s a victim of gaslighting, both by Palpatine AND the Jedi Order. Not that it excuses what he did, but abuse victims who’ve been mentally and emotionally manipulated can display behaviors that deceptively mimic various mental illnesses. And TBH the Jedi Order was really just a fancy religious cult that responded to Anakin’s very normal, very human need for love and acceptance with pretty much the Jedi equivalent of “stop having impure thoughts or you’re gonna go to hell” - which really didn’t help matters.)

And for the sake of clarity here, let me go ahead and establish a couple of things. 1) I’m talking about Anakin while he was still Anakin. Vader is a different entity in a lot of ways, and that’s an entirely different discussion. Most of the BPD stuff I’ve seen has been focused on PT and TCW Anakin, so that’s what I’m working with here. 2) I’m absolutely not arguing that Anakin is some shining paragon of perfect mental health, or that he’s necessarily neurotypical in the first place, because yeah NO. He absolutely has some issues he needs to deal with, and as far as neurotypical-ness goes, I’ve seen some pretty convincing cases for ADHD, PTSD, generalized anxiety, and even high functioning autism. I’m only arguing that BPD doesn’t fit. So let’s go through the diagnostic criteria for BPD, keeping the above in mind.

(If you're on mobile, the rest of the post is here. Hellsite app hides the Read More. https://rocket-sith.tumblr.com/post/158218862776/the-bpd-anakin-theory-is-overlooking-some )

*frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment*

Okay, so picture this. You’re in the middle of an ongoing war, and you’re fighting on the front lines. All your friends are in the war too, and many of them are right there on the front lines with you. Your spouse is a high-profile politician with powerful enemies, and he/she has faced assassination attempts before. Your mother is living in a hostile land as a slave, where it’s commonplace to be killed or abused.

Tell me your fear of losing the people you love is irrational. Go ahead, tell me that’s not a 100% justified fear. I’ll wait.

We see in Crystal Crisis that Anakin feels abandoned by Ahsoka when she left, but she actually did leave. That wasn’t an irrational fear. She left. Anakin stood by her, not thinking she’d leave, and she left anyway, which clearly shocked him. It’s totally fair to say he’s being short-sighted in his reaction, in that the council was the ones he should be mad at, not her, but if irrational fear of abandonment is what we’re looking for here, there simply wasn’t any in this case. The possibility of her leaving never even occurred to him before the council scene in the Wrong Jedi arc, and when she did leave, he was upset, but he was upset at something that actually happened, not irrationally fearing something that might.

Anakin gets mad at Obi-Wan for leaving him out of the loop in the TCW Deception arc, but getting mad at your supposed best friend for faking his own death in order to emotionally manipulate a reaction out of you…I mean, damn, who *wouldn’t* feel pissed off and betrayed by that? And even THEN, he never thought Obi-Wan was the one behind it until Obi-Wan told him point blank that it was his idea to leave Anakin out of the loop. Anakin’s immediate reaction to finding out Obi-Wan was alive wasn’t “Obi-Wan abandoned me and was conspiring against me” it was “the council doesn’t trust me.” The thought that Obi-Wan was in on it doesn’t even cross his mind as a possibility.

Then we have the incident with Padme and Clovis where Anakin walks in and starts to whup Clovis’s ass. A lot of people like to point to this as irrational possessiveness taken to the point of violence, but again, we’re overlooking a few things here. Padme has had attempts made on her life before. The person she’s trying to lure is a known slimeball. And when Anakin busts into the room, he doesn’t see Padme making googly eyes at Clovis. He sees Clovis trying to physically force himself on Padme while she says no. This is not Anakin walking in on his wife flirting with someone, this is Anakin walking in on a known scuzzbucket doing something to Padme that looks an awful lot like sexual assault. No shit, he lost his cool!

The “everyone’s abandoned me and turned against me” mindset isn’t something we see until the tail end of RotS on Mustafar. Not pervasive. And given Obi-Wan actually was there to kill him, it’s not particularly disordered either. He did incorrectly assume Padme had brought Obi-Wan there, but considering 1) Palpatine had planted the idea in Anakin’s head that there was something under-the-table going on between Padme and Obi-Wan, and 2) Obi-Wan really had just shown up on Padme’s ship looking to throw down and start shit, it’s not like Padme bringing Obi-Wan there to whup Anakin’s ass was some random, wild idea that just popped into Anakin’s head of its own accord, manifested purely by his own insecurities. It was a conclusion reached by combining something that was actually true (Obi-Wan had arrived on Mustafar via Padme’s ship with the intention of fighting or killing Anakin) with something that had been deliberately planted in his head by a malevolent, manipulative third party (Obi-Wan and Padme were in cahoots about something sketchy). I am not in any way, shape, or form defending the way Anakin handled it, but I am saying the suspicion itself isn’t mere left-field paranoia born of nothing but a fear of abandonment. *a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation*

Anakin is emotionally intense, sure, and he comes off the rails when one of his loved ones is in danger, but I do not see instability in his relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation of the people he loves. Anakin is a steadfastly loyal person, and he doesn’t do the push-pull thing. Let’s look at the people he’s closest to - his mother, Padme, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Rex, and Palpatine.

- Mom and Rex - there’s never anything even remotely turbulent with either of these two regarding how Anakin views and feels about them. He’s unwaveringly loyal to both, never once devalues either, and there’s no push/pull here at all.

- Ahsoka - he’s overprotective of her sometimes, but she’s a young teenager in a war zone entrusted to his care. The only time we ever see him slagging her off is when he’s ranting to Obi-Wan in the Crystal Crisis arc, mad at her for leaving. That’s it. One instance hardly constitutes “pervasive” or “alternating” and we can’t forget, this wasn’t a fear about things that might happen, or Anakin saying she was Jerky McJerkface because she disagreed with his opinion of loth-cats or something. This was a reaction to her actually leaving, which was a huge, life-altering thing for Anakin that hurt him very deeply - especially since he did stay unwaveringly loyal to her even when no one else was. He’s definitely guilty of not grasping the big picture here, but again - not pervasive, not alternating, no history of devaluing Ahsoka or thinking she was going to abandon him for no good reason.

- Obi-Wan - Okay, the Anakin/Obi-Wan dynamic is complex. These two clowns are both masters at miscommunication and not understanding each other for shit despite the fact that they clearly adore each other, but again. A teenager bickering with his guardian and ranting to his friends about how much he dislikes being nitpicked and dislikes rules (AotC) is typical of every teenager everywhere, and it’s not at all contradictory for a teenager to do this even though they love their guardian. It’s 100% normal. A person being angry when a friend lies to them and manipulates them is a rational reaction (TCW Deception), and if ANYONE is guilty of disordered behavior here, it’s Obi-Wan with his shocking lack of empathy. Anakin didn’t come off the rails with the whole “Obi-Wan isn’t really my friend, he’s out to get me” deal until the tail end of RotS, when Obi-Wan really was out to get Anakin. We don’t see anything remotely like that before then. We see a teenager frustrated with rules, we see an adult upset at being lied to and manipulated, and we see some mutual communication SNAFUs, but we don’t see turbulent, foundationless devaluing.

- Padme - Both Anakin and Padme are very young considering their roles in life, and their relationship can be rocky and immature sometimes. (And not just on Anakin’s part - there was a TCW ep where Anakin had to cut an evening with Padme short to go do Jedi Business and when he showed up the Senate building later to talk to her, she greeted him with an icy “Oh, so now you have time for me?”) Anakin has some jealousy issues, and I’m not going to insult anyone’s intelligence by pretending he doesn’t, but he does not devalue Padme or think she’s against him until the end of RotS - and we’ve already covered that incident. There are absolutely some unhealthy things about the relationship (even before Mustafar), but it doesn’t fit with the BPD criteria here or indicate he’s in the habit of devaluing Padme as a person.

- Palpatine - Well hell, Anakin’s main problem here was that he was blindly loyal! If Anakin had mistrusted Palpatine at all or pushed him away, a lot of really bad shit wouldn’t have happened.

*identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self image or sense of self*

Anakin is absolutely struggling to find his place in the galaxy, but again - self discovery and finding out who you are is a normal part of being teenager and young adult. Not disordered. The Jedi are a batshit cult who try to convince Anakin that his normal, healthy, human emotions are dangerous, and he understandably gets frustrated by it. This isn’t a dysfunction on Anakin’s part, and labeling it as such is fairly abusive in its own right. One of the key elements of gaslighting is when you abuse a person and then blame them for their negative reaction to it. Jedi dogma tries to convince Anakin he’s defective and untrustworthy for having totally normal emotions, and now we’re going to say he’s disordered for reacting to it with anger and confusion? I think we’re fighting in the wrong corner, y'all. And anyways, Anakin doesn’t completely come off the rails with his “the Jedi are evil” deal until the tail end of RotS - not pervasive.

*impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).*

Anakin gets dinged for this one a lot in the BPD Anakin theories, and this is one of those areas where we need to take into account that Anakin does not live in our world. Yes, Anakin is a daredevil. However, acting like you have superpowers isn’t disordered if you actually have superpowers. You wouldn’t call Clark Kent self-destructive for thinking he could jump in front of a bullet. You wouldn’t call Wolverine irrational for thinking he could heal from a wound that would be fatal to anyone else. So it makes no sense to call Anakin self-damaging for acting like he’s some sort of badass super pilot who can deflect blaster fire with a lightsaber. *recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior* - None of this applies at all, unless we’re talking about general daredevil stuff, and then - see above.

*affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)*

This one’s iffy, especially when you’re dealing with someone who’s constantly in the front lines of a war zone, as it calls into question whether anxiety and irritability are disordered in this context. Anakin definitely seems to be anxious and irritable, but he and the people he loves are constantly in harm’s way. You could definitely make a case for PTSD here, but BPD doesn’t fit considering there are very real, very legitimate causes for anxiety and irritability.

*chronic feelings of emptiness* I haven’t seen any direct canonical evidence to support this.

*inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger*

LMAO okay, y'all can have this one. Homeboy’s got some anger management issues. (I still say a lot of the time when he’s pissed off, he’s got a good reason to be, but DAMN he does a shitty job of handling it in a remotely constructive way.)

*transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms*

Nope. It’s not paranoia if they’re really out to get you, ya know? He thinks the council doesn’t trust him. They *don’t* and they’ve never been shy about showing it. He thinks his mother is being tortured to death. She *is*, and prophetic dreams are a real thing in Anakin’s universe, and a power that Anakin has been canonically confirmed to possess. He has premonitions of Padme dying in childbirth. Again, he is canonically confirmed to have the power of prophecy, and the *last* time he ignored a prophetic dream, it cost his mother her life. Taking his dreams seriously is not paranoia, and it’s not him having a dissociative episode. (Yeah, there’s a fan theory that Palpatine planted the Padme dream in Anakin’s head, but even so, that’s not evidence of a disorder with Anakin. It’s more like the equivalent of a forensics expert planting extremely convincing fake evidence at a crime scene, then blaming the cops when they think it’s real.)

So there are the 9 symptoms. You need five or more for a BPD diagnosis. Anakin has ONE. *Maybe* two if you squint really hard and tilt your head. If Anakin were a regular adult human on regular earth who wasn’t in a war zone, wasn’t caught up in a crazy religious order that was shaming him for being human, and wasn’t being manipulated by a goddamn Sith Lord, it would be another matter. But he is, and it’s not accurate to diagnose mental disorders while completely ignoring cultural factors and extenuating circumstances like being a General on the front lines of a war or being preyed upon by a master manipulator.

tl;dr - The “BPD Anakin” theory might seem reasonable at first glance, but it holds significantly less water when we stop pulling Anakin out of his own environment and either analyzing him in a vacuum, or analyzing him against the backdrop of our own world rather than in the context of *his* world, his environment, and his reality in a galaxy far, far away.

#anakin skywalker #attack of the killer meta #shameless overanalyzing #probably gonna get flamed for this

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