#and Lorna Wu's version?

[lorrainestea]

Listening to the Ballad of the Witches' Road intensively and on repeat as if it could miraculously save Alice :')

[dobismuted]

Do you know what? I'm fine with listening to 50-11 versions of The Ballad of Witches' Road. The Lopezes really did make Let It Go for adults.

[holyblanchett]

Lorna's version of the ballad is ELITE

[see-the-divine]

i fear i cried during agatha all along last night when lornas version was playing and the "if i cant reach u let my song teach u" part played because it was like this mother who would do anything for her daughter and i was raised by a single mother and i just felt how alice felt and especially how she must've after resenting her for so long. holy crap im never ever getting over it

[sanyu-thewitch05]

After watching episode 7 of Agatha All Along, I feel so comforted and I don’t know why. Like for some reason the notion of everyone dying/ ���All roads lead to me”/ “It’s what we have in common”. It was just like my paranoid thoughts and fears of what happens after death just stopped like that.

On Lilia, I loved her character the most next to Jen’s. I love the supposedly “kooky” old lady that turns out to be really powerful and right about what she said trope. This is just me being hopeful, but I hope the hour glass being tipped over means Lilia changed time while still in the tower, and the road transported her back to the beginning but with the knowledge she has now(sort of like an time travel isekai/ second chance type of thing).

On that note, do yall think witches are going to be the next enemy of the Marvel Cinematic Universe? I still remember watching Spiderman: Far From Home and the teacher screaming “It’s witches! It’s all witches!”(or something like that) in the chaos and destruction just stuck with me. And now we’re getting all this witch and magic content afterward( Wandavision, Agatha All Along, a Scarlet Witch movie, etc.)

Edit: I HAVE A SLIVER OF HOPE

[barillapasta]

okay but why don’t you Take a breath And dance with death?? and what about My love cannot be turned huh??? what then????????

[feelingvoguish]

There’s something about Lorna’s version of the Ballad that i love.

When i’m listening to it, i just feel so good, like i feel motivated to do stuff. And when i’m not listening to it, i can’t stop thinking about it. Like what did they put in that song??😭

[cosmichahn]

it's so beautiful finding out that the ballad of the witches' road began between agatha and nicholas and their bond, and earlier on we find out that lorna wu created her version in order to protect alice I AM ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED.

[marvel]

Lorna Wu’s Version of the Ballad is gonna wreck my Spotify Wrapped 🎶

Agatha All Along is now streaming on Disney+!

[socallmedaisy]

absolutely obsessed with the implications of the different versions of the ballad now we have the full picture. it really is a masterclass in songwriting.

we start with nicky's version. the road is a metaphor for death, but it's about acceptance ("tame your fears, a door appears, the time has come to go"). it resolves musically, we end on the note we began on. it's in a major key, it sounds happy. it's a fun little tune.

agatha takes this and twists it in the version that plays over the montage of her killing covens. some of the chords are the same (A and D in the chorus) but they're minor versions now. it sounds dark and sad. agatha is grieving. when the other witches join in the harmonies are sinister, adding notes from the minor key. this becomes canonised in the sacred chant version: for 260 years agatha has been stuck grieving nicky.

enter lorna wu. her version is in a different key (p sure it's E flat major at the start). there are still some minor chords but the overall effect isn't the same, it's a major key. partly this is a trick of the instruments and the rock/pop vibe but we know there's a still a mother's grief about not being able to save her child (and herself?) in there, but she's more positive about this than agatha was: she accepts her own death, and she will protect alice if she can, but ultimately the road is still a metaphor about death and everyone walks it, but this time lorna changes the lyrics (the door doesn't appear to death in this version, it appears "to love that never dies" the people we love stay with us after death). and then the bridge. now a bridge musically takes us somewhere new, quite often it signals a key change, a turning point in the lyrics, something shifting. here I think the function is to show us that lorna is not accepting of agatha's static version of the ballad that has stayed the same (unable to move past her grief). the key modulates to a minor one (I think it's A minor), it's sad as lorna tells alice that though lorna will die, she'll always be with her: "if I can't reach you... if I can't hold you, remember what I told you". I think it's significant the last chorus is "we" go down, down, down the road. everyone walks the road to death. it's part of life. agatha can't accept this, but lorna does. she'll see alice at the end.

[ennn]

Recontextualisng the Ballad and Road with the Con and the Hex

I know some folks are upset or disappointed that the Witches' Road here was revealed as the product of Agatha's long con and Billy's Hex magic – that this seems to devalue or invalidate what was being explored about covenhood and sisterhood, or maybe "made it all about a guy".

Here's how I've processed it:

The heart of a good con is a story that rings true

The first version of the Witches' Ballad that Nicky performs for others already has a certain darkness to it. Because even though it was born from their love, the song was used to con and kill witches.

After Nicky's death, Agatha further expands the Ballad for her new deadly long con, adding more flourishes to it, including the mention of "death's hand in mine". It's dark, enticing, powerful, magical. Very much on brand for Agatha Harkness.

What's interesting are the changes between this version and the Sacred Chant version we got in Episode 2. And it's these more recent changes that seem to trip up Agatha with the coven.

For example, the version Agatha used across many years (the one overlaid with her killing witches) does not contain the lines mentioning:

"wake thy power earthly and divine"

"a coven true / two"

" fire, water, earth, and air" – Agatha's earlier version does contain spirit however

I think this speaks to how the Ballad and legend of the Road have gotten away from Agatha. At the heart of the con is a story, and this story has out in the world for centuries.

And it's not like Agatha would have stopped it: For the con to work, the story has to spread. The more witches who know about the Road and the Ballad, the more witches Agatha can target.

But people tend to change the stories they come in contact with, making it their own.

Consider that the story under the long con didn't even come from Agatha: a random witch interpreted the Ballad as a way to get to the Witches' Road, and the Road as an actual place. The con worked because Agatha saw what people wanted, a Road to what they want.

People infuse stories with their own dreams and desires, interpret and transform them to fit with their own lens. That there are apparently multiple versions of the Ballad in the show (more than we see as they mention Lorna's version being the most popular) speaks to this, I think.

The Sacred Chant version of the Ballad is probably a relatively recent attempt by Agatha to update the song she uses given the more modern interpretations of it. She knew about Lorna's version and how popular it is, so I wouldn't be surprised if she pulled elements from that.

So Nicky and Agatha created the Ballad, and Agatha developed it as as a killer con, but over the centuries, I'd say that the Witches' Road has become something bigger than two people.

This lore and ballad has become part of this world's witchy history and culture, reflecting the community's hopes and dreams, beliefs and fears: First with its promise of glory and reward – because that's Agatha's hook – and then thanks to artists like Lorna, with the promise of love that never dies, love that cannot be turned.

So what if the Road doesn't really exist? There are stories that are true that never happened. That doesn't make them less true or important.

It was probably... not helpful that we only get Agatha in full asshole mode addressing this reveal. Her dismissing the song as not meaning anything might be the biggest outright lie she’s ever told, given that the song began with Nicky.

Remember Agatha lies. The Road is not just a con and the song actually means everything, especially to her.

And it is significant that it is the Lorna Wu version of the Ballad – the version Billy is shown listening to – that the Hex Road is built around. It is this version that brings the Ballad back to a place of undying love and family and hope, promising "I'll see you at the end".

We probably wouldn't have gotten the Road we did get if it wasn't for Lorna Wu’s selfless love and sacrifice for her daughter. Because that’s the version Billy connected with. Not the ones Agatha used for her long con.

What's real is what you make of it

So Jac Schaeffer has mentioned that this twist was inspired by The Usual Suspects movie. Not just how the reveal was done – with Agatha framed as the mastermind figure who knew all along (camera wink) and Billy piecing the revelation together from clues with growing horror – but more importantly, how it didn’t detract from how the viewer felt about the characters and what they went through:

When you learn it was all a made-up story, it doesn’t undermine your experience of the movie. You still care about Gabriel Byrne’s character, you still care about Edie, and you care that Fenster died.

Does the Witches' Road being a creation of Billy's chaos magic, led by his subconscious invalidate what the coven went through, what these women and this boy did together?

I don't think it does. Because the experience this coven had was real. Their emotions, decisions, triumphs, lessons learnt, the moments of connection they had with each other — all of it was real to them.

Schaeffer wrote for the Black Widow movie and I'm reminded of the scene where Yelena rejects the idea that her family wasn't real because it was rooted in them being deep undercover:

That wasn't real – who cares. Don't say that. Please don't say that, it was real. It was real to me.

With the exception of Agatha (and Rio at least by Episode 8) who were aware that the Road was a hex, there was no filter on what the coven took away from the Road.

After all, chaos magic bends reality and creates.

Consider Jen at the end of this journey. She may never know the Road was conjured by Billy and rooted in a con of Agatha's but she did have her arc and incredible growth – to the point where she was committed to saving Agatha as part of her coven in the earth trial.

Jen got her power back and embraces being a witch again, as a sister in the craft, because of their shared experience on the Road.

For Lilia, her divination magic didn't care where the Road came from or what conjured it. Outside the hex, she still had the vision to place a sigil on Billy, and later the vision of her coven – the coven she needed – and their destiny together.

Lilia's beautiful journey, her remembering herself and her power, is still intact.

For Alice, she still discovered the truth about her mother's quest to keep her safe from her curse. And with the help of her coven, Alice did lift her curse. She did let go of her anger and found new peace in with a coven.

All of that is still real and still happened.

Agatha is more complicated because she knew from the start that the Road was a Hex. But this is also a deeply hurt love-starved person who also allowed herself to believe for a brief period that Billy might be Nicky despite all evidence to the contrary, until Rio made it clear otherwise.

Did Agatha genuinely find herself caring about this coven by the end of Episode 4? I think she did. I think the fear of losing Billy that episode was genuine too, as was her regret and remorse for killing Alice, because she did feel the loss of that coven relationship that had just started to form.

Agatha's knowledge of the Hex further explains why she lashes out at Billy after Alice's death, aside from his moralising. The spirit trial was a product of his subconscious after all. It was just set up for tragedy because of how the Hex worked (more on that below).

Ultimately, the bonds these witches did make with each other, them coming together as a coven even for a limited time, did matter I think. Jennifer, Alice, and Lilia had their arcs.

Agatha's is more of a mess – and that's a whole other discussion to go into – but I'd say that she's made progress on her arc. With Jen healing Billy, Alice stepping up to protect her, the earth trial moving her towards acknowledging the indiscriminate nature of death. She did see and feel what a coven could be for her, and she does remember them, and what could have been.

The magic of the Road

I think part of the magic of the Road was how it seemed to have purpose in bringing a coven together. How "the Road changes for the coven". Well uh it still did... just with different mechanics behind the curtain.

As a reference point: Why did Wanda create her Hex? To get a reality where she could have a happy family. Why did Billy create the Road? He immediately needed somewhere to escape the Salem Seven, but ultimately he wanted a way to find Tommy.

Note that it's not like Billy made up a version of Tommy just waiting at the Road. His Hex doesn't have a solution or answer, his Hex manifests a Road to find a way forward.

It helps to contextualise the Road as not only the product of out-of-control magic, this Road is also a manifestation of:

a genuine love and curiosity for witchcraft, including its culture and history (let's not forget Billy is a witch who doesn't have a coven)

a need for family and community

a desire to help others find personal growth or what they are looking for (Billy is a good kid that's been raised by a loving family)

Most importantly, as a telepath Billy isn't creating the Road only for himself or using only his own thoughts: with his mind-reading his subconscious is pulling from the coven members around him.

That's why the trials are designed for the coven members, with the spirit trial being so weird because Billy has trouble reading Agatha's mind. And what does Billy learn at the start of Episode 5 with the Salem Seven reappearing? Agatha killed her own coven and doesn't seem remorseful about it at all.

Safe to say Billy's subconscious did not like that.

I hear Schaeffer has confirmed this thinking in a recent interview with House of R, saying there were deleted lines in Episode 9 with Agatha explaining that the trials were informed by Billy's subconscious mind-reading. Agatha was not a fan of how Billy's subconscious wanted personal growth and team-bonding.

So while we were joking about the Road forcing these witches to get therapy, it actually closer to what was happening than we realised. It just wasn't driven by some mysterious cosmic force or divine entity, but by a kid subconsciously who meant well.

There's perhaps something to be said about how there isn't a magical Road already existing out there for Witches to find themselves.

Unlike sorcerers in the MCU who pull magic from the universe or other dimensions, the magic of witches comes from within.

[hope-you-brought-kneepads-bitch]

Agatha hearing Lorna Wu’s version of the ballad: Interesting, I think I’m owed a lot money

Rio: Why?

Agatha: I made the song and she’s singing it but slightly different but still the same so it definitely still belongs to me

Rio: But if you told people then they might discover the road is fake and just a ploy for you to kill witches and take their power

Agatha:….But I could get millions

Rio: most of which I’ll be using since you would’ve been killed by the families of the witches you murdered

Agatha: Fine! But I’m still pissed

[liliasmaestra]

I think that the Coven is going to repeat episode 5 and the key to fixing things will be succeeding in Lilia's trial:

Things are wrong from the get go. Lilia has knowledge she shouldn't have.

Lilia wakes up and immediately knows they're in danger. Prodded by Rio to explicitly name who is after them, she says it's the Salem Seven.

Except in episode 2 and thus episodes 3 and 4 as well, Lilia doesn't know it's the Salem Seven after them. She says "well, whatever chased Agatha down here, it's our problem now". She didn't sense the Seven attacking Agatha's house in episode 2, or that the crow witch was outside her building, and neither Agatha or Teen clarified for the others at that point.

So how and why would she know it's the Seven now?

She certainly isn't guessing.

She isn't divining it; there's no actual prediction, no tarot call outs, she doesn't say anything outright out of sync and she isn't spaced out like she usually is when her psychic abilities manifest. She knows exactly what is going on in that moment. This is not being shown as knowledge coming to her from elsewhere, this is information she consciously already has.

She just woke up and knew they were in immediate danger.

Almost like it's happened before.

It's established both that time can go weird on the Road and that Lilia has temporal magic

The version of the Ballad that the Coven sings in episode 2: "through many miles/of tricks and trials".

Lorna Wu's version of the Ballad: "the Road is wild and wicked/winding out of time".

Lilia says about her own abilities in this episode that she reads people and she reads time.

Everything about the trial is wrong and everything goes wrong inside it.

They fly through the bug witch with Agatha still having a bug in her hair in the Cabin, which would point to the entire thing being a trap by the Salem Seven.

We don't see the moon phase on the door to confirm who it really belongs to. The door doesn't lose its handles: they aren't trapped in like previous trials.

Aspect ratio doesn't change like with previous trials.

The trial itself makes no sense, aesthetically it doesn't match Agatha, it doesn't have a logical way for her to use her knowledge/power to overcome it, and it directly seeks to split the Coven apart where every previous trial is about them having to work together.

They climb up out of the cabin, not "down, down, down the Road" like with previous trials.

They break every rule given to them in the Cabin.

The ouija board jumps at them whereas every previous trial had them stumble on clues they had to decipher.

They fail the trial. Alice dies, they choose to abandon Agatha instead of helping her overcome her trauma, they're completely fractured as a coven, they didn't use their knowledge/power.

Almost as if none of this should have happened.

Lilia's premonitions seems heavily focused on events in episode 5, she is repeatedly singled out as acting strange by the others in this episode

People have already worked out that it's likely "Try to save Agatha" from episode 3 and "Alice don't" from episode 4 were supposed to be said together in episode 5 as "Alice, don't try to save Agatha".

Lilia also says that "[she] hated this the first time" during the episode. To which Teen then says "Lilia's acting weird again", which is practically a neon sign that Lilia's words aren't benign.

Then, after Everything, she says "death comes for us all" in an almost resigned, mournful way that doesn't track with her previous reactions to danger and coven members dying. And Agatha specifically clocks this, she look thoughtful, like she just got given a missing puzzle piece.

Lilia was terrified by her hallucinations in episode 3, angry and upset about Sharon in episode 4, she repeatedly shows a lot of empathy towards Alice specifically, and yet we're lead to believe she just accepts that Alice is dead and moves on? No.

If Lilia is this resigned to the death of a coven member it's because she's either literally not herself via some kind of possession or because she is stuck in a loop trying and failing to prevent tragedy.

But she can't do it alone.

Lilia's trial will involve course correcting the Coven's mistakes in episode 5.

In the trailer for the show we see a scene of Lilia's trial. It clearly confronts witch stereotypes, outfitting her as Glinda the Good Witch. It also clearly involves the Salem Seven in some way. She is actually shown floating/falling with them in a room with swords standing blade up beneath them. (This is definitely reaching now but the saying 'to fall on your sword' comes to mind, meaning to sacrifice yourself for something.)

In episode 2, she tells Agatha that she doesn't miss the glory days because she was chased from every village she passed through due to accurately predicting tragedy. I posit that Lilia's trial is about her overcoming her fear of her psychic magic and resentment of witch stereotypes and the heartache and loneliness this has caused her by fixing the timeline. She has to figure out how to actively control her magic to get her predictions to the right times, and the rest of the Coven has to believe her.

It's a trust fall, literally. She might have to sacrifice herself, in hopes that eventually she'll get her outbursts to the right times and be able to keep the Coven safe and whole long enough for them to save her at the end by working together to defeat the Seven. Allowing them to complete the Road "Coven true".

Agatha will be the one to help Lilia trust herself, as she did with Jen and Alice in previous trials, she is cast as the Wicked Witch to Lilia's Glinda meaning a central aspect of the trial will be their relationship. The Coven must trust each other, they have to look beyond stereotypes and let go of their preconceived notions about each other. She might be the first one, with Rio, to piece together what's happening and believe Lilia.

[safirefire]

i'm never getting over lorna wu and her being unable to break the generational curse on her family or connect with her daughter then becoming a famous singer and weaving a spell into her most famous song (lorna's version) so that everytime someone sings it her daughter will be protected