#amphinomus has enough

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

Eurydice was looking for her father, after traveling to Ithaca. She’s had barely any luck.. and she may or may not have snuck into the palace of Penelope and Odysseus.

As she walked through the halls quietly and carefully. She accidentally bumped into Amphinomus.

“Oh, yikes.”

- @pomegranatesandskulls >:D

My apologies! Are you hurt madame? I apologize, I did not notice I was in your way fair maiden.

[rin-solo]

Now that Jorge posted the trailer, let's talk about my hopes for the Ithaca saga

I didn't really do this for the Vengeance saga, despite that being the first saga I actually watched on release day. But for that saga, my expectations were a lot vaguer; I kind of just went into it expecting nothing and everything ... and honestly, by this point enough time has passed that I can confidently and without recency bias say that the Vengeance saga is my favorite saga to date.

Honestly, I could sit here and talk about expectations such as "let Athena reappear and reconcile with Odysseus", "flesh out Penelope and give us insight in her yearning for Odysseus", or "give us more background and characterization on Antinous and the suitors" but honestly, that feels a bit superfluous because I trust Jorge to do those things anyway (especially the last two.)

So, I'm going to talk about some expectations that are a lot vaguer and bolder instead ... Which is why I call them "hopes" in the title, rather than expectations.

Before anything else, I'll talk about my thematic expectations here. Namely how, if I were to guess the theme for the Ithaca saga, I would guess "the necessity of forgiveness and acceptance", contrasting the Vengeance saga's "the unnecessity of vengeance and resentment."

This would make the last two sagas two sides of the same coin, in the same way that Thunder and Wisdom are (one explores a formerly merciful character trying out ruthlessness, the other a formerly ruthless character trying out mercy.)

There is also so much room to explore this theme, not just in terms of how Odysseus' family receives him. In the way he might have to accept the changes in his family and his life since he left, in how he might start showing signs of accepting himself and his own changes, and also in the way he might interact with the suitors.

First, I actually want to talk about a character from the Odyssey who I, against all odds, really hope shows up because his inclusion would be so perfect for EPIC's themes and exploring the complexity of Odysseus' character: Amphinomus.

Disclaimer: I haven't read the Odyssey in ages and while I did some research for this post, please correct me if anything I say is wrong.

Now, in case you don't know, in the Odyssey, Amphinomus was one of the suitors, and specifically described as the most decent man among them. He would occasionally try to restrain the other suitors from their more aggressive or inappropriate behavior, showed kindness to Odysseus when he was disguised as a beggar, and demonstrated better judgment and more respectful behavior compared to the other suitors.

Because of this, Homer's Odysseus actually tries to warn him, and convince him to leave while still disguised, so that he wouldn't get caught up in the slaughter. However, he does not heed this warning and stays ... because of divine intervention: Homer apparently specifically mentions that Athena had "bound him to death".

It is ultimately Telemachus, fighting at his father's side, who kills him along with all of the others.

Now, again, if any of that recount was wrong, please correct me, but also ultimately it doesn't matter that much because EPIC isn't the Odyssey. I don't expect or want it to play out the exact same way in EPIC ... Actually, I'd be pretty disappointed if it does. I want him to be included in EPIC for a completely different reason, on which I will elaborate shortly.

For the Odyssey, it makes perfect sense for it to end badly for him. From what I know, in the moral framework of the ancient Greek world, his participation in the suitor's actions and his being part of their group, regardless of his personal character, made him culpable along with them. Individual accountability wasn't a focus of ancient Greek stories the way that it is in modern stories.

In EPIC, however, he could be such a great example specifically to portray individual accountability and complexity. Now, in terms of how it plays out for him, it could go a couple of different ways.

He could straight up survive, either by being warned or spared in the end by Odysseus, to show Odysseus' dual nature as both merciful and ruthless. For EPIC's Athena it would make no sense to condemn him to death since she has embraced mercy, and for EPIC's Odysseus it would make no sense to kill him if he conveys that ruthlessness isn't required to deal with him.

I'd personally be very much for this route since it provides a great opportunity to show Odysseus showing mercy in a moment otherwise dominated by ruthlessness (the suitor slaughter); this is probably how I would write it.

He could be killed by the other suitors instead of Odysseus and Telemachus. This route falls more in line with the tragedy, but it could be a great way to escalate the dynamic among the suitors and portray them as individuals as opposed to just a unanimous group with one mind. Honestly, his sheer inclusion would already do this, but an outcome like this even more.

He could be killed by Odysseus or Telemachus for a justifiable reason, as opposed to divine intervention. Maybe it would be self-defense, or maybe Amphinomus himself is portrayed as more morally gray. While having some decency he still does something that makes it clear that ruthlessness is necessary to deal with him ... such as, for example, not heed Odysseus' warning of his own accord and instead of begging for mercy, insist on wanting his throne and Penelope's hand either way.

He could be killed by Odysseus or Telemachus because of divine intervention from another god. This is honestly my least favorite option because it takes agency away from the characters, when we seem to have reached a point in the story where agency has seemingly been reclaimed. It could probably be made to work, but at that point it would almost be a wasted opportunity.

Honestly, I could probably come up with a few more of these scenarios, all of which depend on how exactly he would be portrayed in EPIC. But ultimately, these are the main few that I can think of. We'll just have to wait and see.

Overall, I'd just think not including him in a story as heavily focused on moral complexity and nuance as EPIC would be a missed opportunity since his entire existence is kind of an expression of complexity—specifically among the group of suitors who are, in my opinion, in great need of more nuance.

Amphinomus and the suitors aside, something else I am hoping to see very much is a nuanced and satisfying portrayal of Odysseus' newfound dual nature.

Something that makes it absolutely clear that Odysseus is neither "just a man" nor "a monster" anymore, but rather something in between. A being capable of both ruthlessness and mercy. For example, a scene showing him be merciful in one moment and ruthless in the next, both being entirely justified and correct approaches to two separate cases.

At least a hint toward a beginning of a self-acceptance arc. So far, we've only seen Odysseus blame himself, demonize himself, judge himself more than he has ever judged anyone else (I talked about this a little in my "Monster" analysis essay, if you're interested.) It feels like a natural final step in his character arc to at least attempt giving himself more leeway, maybe with the help of his family and their acceptance (also oddly in line with the "Next to my wife" line, if you think about it.)

A callback to "I am neither man nor mythical", the line first brought up by @glisten-inthedark as likely having been foreshadowing (I agree with this heavily.) You might even adjust this slightly, to be "I am neither man nor monster" and it gives us exactly what he has become now. Don't give me another "Just a man" reprise, and don't give me a "No longer you" or "Monster" reprise either. Give me a "Remember them" reprise instead.

If you have to give me a "Just a man" or "Monster" reprise, make it clear that he is neither anymore. He's not the man who would use "I am just a man" as an excuse in act 1, and he is not the monster who would act ruthlessly in every situation. Similarly, if you have to give me a "No longer you" reprise, please make it finally clear that Odysseus is most certainly still "himself". He may no longer be the same man he was when he met Tiresias but putting it like that is highly misleading and I just have a personal problem with "No longer you" for this reason. Objectively, it's a great song. Subjectively, I can actually not stand it.

Alright, I think that's enough setting up expectations that can now be disappointed for myself for one essay 😂😂 I hope you enjoyed! And if any of these won't happen, well I might be disappointed, but Jorge might also give us something entirely different that will be surprising in a good way as well, so I'm definitely open for anything.

Please feel free to share your thoughts down below through a reblog or comment and see you all in Ithaca saga!

[adiraofthetals]

Ok, so I will be making an EPIC x Discovery AU with Paul as Odysseus in my free time. But the song 38 aka Odysseus really sings Michael vibes as Odysseus and Leto as Telemachus. So minor edits to the OG Lyrics to fit that (Also I don't have names for the suitors so I just left them as they were). Cut down below cause its going to be long.

[MICHAEL]

For twenty years, I've suffered every punishment and pain

From the wrath of gods and monsters to the screams of comrades slain

I come back and find my palace desecrated, sacked like Troy

Worst of all, I hear you dare to touch my love and hurt my boy

[MICHAEL, spoken]

I have had enough

[ENSEMBLE]

Michael, Michael

Michael, Mic—

[SUITOR #1]

In the heat of battle, at the edge of the unknown

[SUITOR #2]

Somewhere in the shadows lurks an agile, deadly foe

[SUITOR #3]

We have the advantage, we've the numbers and the might

[SUITOR #4, spoken]

No

[SUITOR #4]

You don't understand it, this woman plans for every fight

[An arrow is shot and a SUITOR screams]

[ENSEMBLE]

Michael, Michael

Michael, Michael

[SUITOR #5]

Where is she? Where is she?

[SUITOR #6]

Keep your head down, she's aimin' for the torches

[SUITOR #7]

Our weapons, they're missing!

[SUITOR #8]

She's using the darkness to hide her approaches

[SUITOR #9]

We're empty handed, up against an archer

Our only chance is to strike her in the darkness

[SUITOR #10]

We know these halls, the odds can be tilted

[Michael, spoken]

You don't think I know my own palace? I built it

[More SUITORS are killed, there is screaming and yelling]

[ENSEMBLE]

Michael, Michael

Michael, Michael

[EURYMACHUS]

Old queen, our leader is dead

You've destroyed the serpent's head

Now the rest of us are no longer a threat

Old queen, forgive us instead

So that no more blood is shed

Let's have open arms instead

[EURYMACHUS is shot]

[MICHAEL, spoken]

No

[ENSEMBLE]

Michael, Michael

Michael, Michael

[AMPHINOMUS]

Damn, she's more cunning than I assumed

While we were busy plotting

She hid our weapons inside this room

[MELANTHIUS]

I find it hard to believe that the sharpest of queens

Left her armory unlocked

[AMPHINOMUS]

So what?

Now that we have armed ourselves

Let's make the bastard rot

[MELANTHIUS]

Behind you!

[AMPHINOMUS is stabbed in the back]

[Instrumental Break]

[LETO]

Throw down those weapons

And I ensure you'll be spared

[MELANTHIUS]

After seeing what the queen will do to us

We wouldn't dare

[LETO]

I don't wanna hurt you

But trust me, I've come prepared

[MELANTHIUS]

Ha! Your very presence has doomed the queen, young prince

We don't fight fair

[LETO, spoken]

Stop

[MELANTHIUS]

Siblings, we got company and she's made a grave mistake

Left the weapons room unlocked, and now they're ours to take

Siblings, come and arm yourselves, there's a chance for us to win

We can still defeat the queen if we all attack the prince

[MELANTHIUS, SUITORS, LETO]

Where is he? Where is he?

Capture him, he's our greatest chance

Get off me, get off me

Fight 'til the prince can barely stand

Hold him down, hold him down

Make the queen obey our command

Hold him down, hold him down

'Cause if she won't, I'll break the kid's hands

[MELANTHIUS, spoken]

Got him

[MELANTHIUS is stabbed in the back]

[MELANTHIUS, spoken]

Me-mer—

[MICHAEL, spoken]

Mercy? Mercy?

[MICHAEL]

My mercy has long since drowned

It died to bring me home

And as long as you're around

My family's fate is left unknown

You plotted to kill my son

You planned to rape my husband

All of you are going to die

[ENSEMBLE]

Michael

[MICHAEL, spoken]

You've filled my heart with hate

All of you, who have done me wrong

This will be your fate!

[MICHAEL beheads MELANTHIUS. The remaining SUITORS scream in terror as MICHAEL kills them all]

[ENSEMBLE]

Michael

Michael

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

“Dad.. dad I can’t find mom-“ he seems panicked.

@ihearghosts

Lee? Lee what's going on? What do you mean you can't find Izzy? he grabbed Lees shoulders, looking him in his eyes.

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

I'm... A grown man...?

Do it, Mrs. Penelope!

Asaki!-

Shut it you need stability in your life

I didn't say I objected! Just saying I am a grown man that doesn't have to be adopted.

...

...I resign, you may adopt me, your majesty.

You know… since Amphinomus is younger than you and Ody.. and tried to convince the suitors not to kill your son.. and isn’t that bad..

I think you should adopt Amphinomus. Plus, he respects Ody.

... @odysseus-reigning-king-of-ithaca / @odysseus-of-ithaca-is-lost and @the-only-decent-suitor-here any objections?

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

*a stronger, more rough looking Telemachus comes home and stops suddenly seeing him* Who are you?

- @not-so-far-from-battle

Um uh I live here??? I think? Her highness did not iron that part out when she took over guardianship of me- Why are you... buff Prince Telemachus?

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

“Dad.. what if I like—set a building on fire?”

- @ihearghosts

I would prefer my son to not do anything dangerous but I have to question, which building and why?

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

“Heyyyy, darling~”

(good luck Amphinomus, she’s about to say wild stuff) @pomegranatesandskulls

Yes my dearest? What do you need of me?

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

... I can see why Asaki says I am in denial...

SO YOU ADMIT IT!

suitors didn't fight back when Odysseus and Telemachus were killing them because they were to busy staring at Odysseus's ass

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

“Hmmm..”

- @daughter-of-the-hearth

Yes??? How may I help you?

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

squints “…..you look familiar.”

- @eurydiceofsparta

Likewise. You look like my dearest, Eurydice. You couldn't be her though. he narrows his eyes at her My Izzy is a kind soul.

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

So you are one of the men who tried to annoy my cousin into marrying you?

- @youre-quite-a-girl-helen

At least I was respectful with it! The others straight up called her tramp!

That and It was only because my father wanted political gain.

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

Oh, That hurts-

//MY HEART-

Thinking about him…

I think his death was like one of the times I paused at during rereading bc what do you mean Telemachus killed him. Telemachus. The prince he dissuaded the suitors from killing TWICE. OTL Though maybe charging towards Odysseus with sword drawn wanting to get to the door was not the best idea…

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

”Amphinomus, I just want to know if you’ve had a s’more before.”

-@daughter-of-the-hearth

What is a s'more...?

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

SMOOTH AMPHI??? HOW DID THIS HAPPEN???

I am just as surprised my, dear daughter.

Thanatos too? Why?

[the-only-decent-suitor-here]

AMPHINOMUS MY GOOD FRIEND!! how do you fare tonight? care for a drink? -🐺

I am well. Thank you, Antinous. Are you? As for a drink, only just a bit. I think the... Goddess? Yeah, the goddess that decided for me to be her vessel does not like the taste of alcohol.