#am aware i have not. explicitly slotted anyone into any actual roles.

[erstwhilesparrow]

ethubs + desert duo hadestown au. not actually wildly familiar with hadestown but something something seeing and not seeing yourself in the bright young couple at your doorstep who have been separated by tragic circumstances?

notes:

etho + scar -- etho striking a deal with scar for a life for bdubs

grian + bdubs -- not sure this is A Thing in hadestown but i would like to play with bdubs's "he loves me!" thing and grian trying to convince him otherwise?

grian playing this season mean, playing willing to break from his allies at the drop of a hat -- again, don't think this actually lines up with anything in hadestown, but some of that... jadedness from third life, the way he starts his season with "everything that happened last time DOESN'T MATTER"

scar spends the whole season alone atop the mountain. that thing someone said once about how desert duo never left that desert but specifically in the sense that they spend every game after playing out warped versions of what they originally had, never satisfied because that moment is long gone and they can't accept it. seeing the funhouse mirror versions of you maybe succeed and maybe fail and kind of hoping-- what, exactly?

[nyshadidntbreakit]

(Part 1) Thanks for explaining the issue with fetishization and transphobia. I saw the post earlier and what you added made a lot of sense. I have a follow up question though - You explained that people are attracted to what red heads or trans people have in common. So, what if someone prefers dating someone trans because of nothing sexual or wanting to know their history/backstory, but because they see how society mistreats them and wants to treat them right?

(Part 2) I think that’s similar to wanting to date someone that’s in the process of coming out of the closet - you want to help them through that process. Do you think seeking out trans people for that reason is fetishization or even transphobia? What about wanting to become friends and not for dating? Then is it just about wanting to be a safe space for them? (Assuming it’s someone you would otherwise be friends with/want to date, not just any trans person.)

Part 3) I’m a cis bisexual girl. Sometimes I feel more attracted to women then men because of the sense of community - same with trans people, the sense that we’re in the same LGBT+ community. So it’s not them being trans that is attractive exactly, it’s that they’re part of a community that I identify with. And I know what struggles they possibly went through/are going through so I feel like I’m in better place than others might to be there for them. Thoughts? I’m just trying to learn more :) 

Obviously, again, a big disclaimer goes here that I’m cis and not an expert on this. So, I’ll do my best to talk about what I *think* is the right way of approaching this, but if any trans people disagree with me, you should listen to them!

I can see where you’re coming from, but I don’t think it’s a good basis for a relationship. I do think that if you’re gonna date a trans person, you should be of the mindset that you want to support them in dealing with all the shit they face for being trans: that’s pretty basic, you shouldn’t date anyone if you don’t plan to support them through hard things, especially when those hard things are about marginalisation.

But deciding to date someone just in order to support them? That’s not an equal relationship. It sets up the possibility of a huge power imbalance, where you’re painted as the Protector and they’re dependent on you. But more importantly, it’s kind of insulting! You want people to date you because they like you, they enjoy being with you, they find you interesting or exciting or whatever; not because they want to save you.

Now, I don’t think you were trying to suggest that you’d date someone you were otherwise completely uninterested in, just to help them survive transphobia. But even if you’re restricting your potential dating pool to “people I like + people I can support with transphobia”, that’s still kind of reductive. You’re predetermining that you, as their partner, will have a role in their life that they haven’t agreed to. You’re also forgetting that different people experience transphobia differently, and the kind of support you’re able and willing to give may not always be needed or wanted.

I also wonder what you (hypothetical you) would be getting out of this. It’s absolutely fulfilling to help people, especially people you care about! But romantic relationships are also about a more selfish kind of fulfilment, you’re looking for things the other person can bring to your life. “I can help them” isn’t something they’re bringing to your life; so it’s worth asking what *does* fill that gap.

I do think there’s a lot of value in maintaining a friendship with someone in order to support them, with any kind of coming out or dealing with discrimination. Friendships can be very focused around one kind of interaction/way of relating without that being a problem, and there’s a long history of older queers/LGBT folks mentoring younger ones. Of course, usually that kind of mentoring happens with someone who shares your specific marginalised characteristic: but if a cis person and a trans person have that kind of a friendship, which specifically addresses transphobia, and both people are happy and healthy in that friendship, then I’m not gonna tell anyone off!

I also definitely think it’s worth explicitly aiming to be a safe person to socialise with for trans people. This is especially true in group settings, where we need to be the ones knocking misgendering, transphobic jokes, casual cissexism etc. on the head, and also making sure we don’t participate in any of that, and that we apologise and correct ourselves if we do, even if we’re not aware of anyone in the group being trans. There’s probably a good chance that that kind of successful allyship will lead to friendships, which is fabulous - although that said, you can’t force a friendship, and sometimes it’s just as important to be a good ally to someone with whom you can’t actually hold a comfortable conversation without lapsing into awkward silences.

If you know that someone is lonely, or being excluded, (and is also trans), then that would also be a good reason to actively reach out and try to become friends (as long as you can recognise and accept a soft no).

But seeking to become friends with random trans people, without having any particular reason to believe that they are short on supportive friends, just because they’re trans so you’ve assumed they need support, is getting back on the dodgy side. Much like what I said above about romantic relationships, if you do this you’re making assumptions about their life on the basis of them being trans, and you’re also trying to slot yourself into a role in their life that they might not want you in, that might already be more than adqeuately filled, or that they might not want or need anyone in.

I do want to reiterate that all this is about patterns, about actively seeking relationships (platonic or otherwise) with trans people in general. If there is a specific person in your life, who you care about, and the two of you have agreed that these risks and dangers don’t apply, that’s completely different.

The community thing, on the other hand, I totally understand. I also am much more interested in women than men, and much more interested in queer/LGBT people than in Straight* people: by that token I’ll probably always be more interested in dating trans women (and trans men if I meet one I really like) than cis, straight guys. I think that’s 100% fine.

The difference, I think, between seeking people who share a community with you, and seeking people who you can support through discrimination because of their community membership, is that the former is equal - the common experiences, solidarity and understanding flow both ways - whereas being someone’s white knight is very one way.

Just to reiterate: I am extremely open to criticism and disagreement from anyone who’s trans. If you don’t want your name on your criticism, send it to me on anon, and I will post it, so long as it’s respectful of trans people.

*Straight with a capital S, as in the social position, not just the orientation.