#also the fatphobia is strong in this family. fat is also strong in this family

[eats-the-stars]

also if you have relatives/friends who will not in a million years admit that they are racist/homophobic/etc. since they know this is a bad thing they shouldn't endorse or be, then calling them out directly often leads to denial and deflection and getting really defensive and not backing down.

But if you just say 'hey, it was kind of rude to say X' or 'i think you were making H uncomfortable by bringing up X/making X joke' then they're more likely to listen w/out immediately going to level 10 defensive mode.

Also, ppl who will staunchly deny being a racist/fatphobe/homophobe/etc. will be more likely to agree to simply being 'a bit of an asshole last night.'

The goal is not to get the person to make a complete 180. It's to get them to be a little bit less of an asshole next time. And then rinse and repeat until someday they're, like, barely an asshole at all.

GRADE SCHOOL SJWS stop using social justice language to explain shit to your conservative parents IT’S NOT GONNA GO THROUGH now all they have are some new words to make fun of. don’t tell your mom she’s being fatphobic tell her she’s being a dick

[horizon-verizon]

A Little More on Daemon, Nettles, and Rhaenyra from this last ask

Even though I also have said what I am going to say below many, many times about this thought anon presents, I will bring them up anyway, along with those links jic there are other new people reading from me:

Daemon stayed behind to kill Aemond/Vhagar when he could have run away with Nettle if he loved Nettles so much more than Rhaenyra

how if he wanted to kill her first three boys who aren't his and are before their shared boys in the line f succession, he would have at least tried once and/or he wouldn't have gone out of his way to avenge Lucerys' death through an act that would have always made him "unfit" to be seen as a ruler in his own right to other lords so it could only have been about true love for both Rhaenyra and her first 3 boys...you may argue that this was more out of pride and to hate the enemy, except you'd also have to underestimate Rhaenyra's regard for her own kids and herself as there was at one point where she was angry and kept herself at a distance form Daemon (or seemingly so) after 111 A.C. where he couldn't even be welcomed by her on Dragonstone

how it was Septon Eustace--who hates and twists a lot of shit abt Rhaenyra to make her seem "worse" through stuff and descriptors that are actually not really morally bad but are actually but sexist shit meant to diminish woman (pregnancy weight, throne cut that even Aegon I had atp, Mysaria who Daemon hadn't seen in years and point blank said was a "lying whore" with no demonstration of pretense to the most objective, then-observing maester mentioned in the Dance era, Norren)--who says Rhaenyra "allowed" the "cheating" b/t him and Mysaria...so she never "lost" her beauty or her looks or whatever, Septon Eustace simply said that to diminish her as much as he could...and you yourself, anon, buy into that fatphobic misogyny, so really should anyone trust how you reason things? Relying on misogyny and fatphobia, etc. can indicate low intellectualism or just plain stupidity (fatphobic sexism is closely related to racism as EUs used "fatness" to further impose standards of superiority through their years long processes of colonization but before such, "fatness" or really "thicker" bodies, esp amongst wealthy or nobles, was considered attractive bc it showed how you didn't have to work yourself to the bone to live as luxuriously or have any economic means)

Daemon didn't exist in the first few drafts of F&B/Rhaenyra's story...she was married to Lyonel Strong...Daemon was literally created specifically for Rhaenyra to function as one, if not one of the only, most devoted supporters and family members...yes Daemon and Laena had a good marriage and loved each other, but why exactly does that mean he "hated" the woman he literally died for? Weird.

Then there is this post of an anon who explains to the purposefully illiterate Daemon's reaction to Rhaenyra's letter and how it shows how he def loved her and very likely did not cheat on her. I also mention some of that anon's thoughts abt Daemon and the letter along with others in this post.

These are most of the arguments I and others had for Daemon having truly loved Rhaenyra AND her sons. they have circulated on Twitter and Tumblr for MONTHS now.

It can only be that anon hates Rhaenyra themselves and are projecting, hoping, praying canon!Daemon does as well instead of writing a fanfiction about it.

Even when we're talking about Rhaenyra's treatment of Nettles and how it mirrors Jezebel misogynoir shit--even if we can prove w/o a doubt that this was really Septon Eustace again muddling shit, as he also makes it seem Mysaria "bewitched" Rhaenyra, as he hated Mysaria as well--it'd still be projection. I know some people wish to believe and realize the idea that Daemon didn't love Rhaenyra as a sort of self-comfort and sticking it to the racist/misogynoirist white woman who some might have genuinely experienced in real life (I certainly have), but we really need to call a spade a spade and read with our eyes open.

And the narratively desired man sometimes loves/cares for the woman we hate or judge to be "unworthy" of any sort of love, that's just how it be sometimes.

Daemon loving either Rhaenyra or Nettles does nothing--inherently--to their worth as people. At least it shouldn't...or you'd just be buying into more sexist shit, which I suspect anon is already in as they also try to upset me.

[thisisthinprivilege]

ANONYMOUS PLEASE <3 I’m at my wit’s end with my mother. I wanted to complain about her fatphobia, and I also wanted to you thank you for how reading here has helped me and my sisters. 

I’m a small fat in my 40s. I’ve been a bigger fat, and I’ve also been very, very skinny. I developed anorexia at about age 6 due to the usual issues one develops that from and was thinner than thin until I finally started to actually recover. I got very fat very quickly on the drugs I was put on, then dropped down in size to small fat once I stabilized and didn’t need them. No idea what my “comfortable” or “natural” size would have been without so much damage, but I’m going to guess “about this”, since it’s what I am when I’m neither restricting to the point of heart damage, nor on drugs that also made me sick in many other ways. For me, a comfortable size is the size I have when I’m not actively altering it in ways that hurt me, so I’m not going to question it.

My next younger sister, however, is a bigger fat, and pretty much always has been. In her 30s, she’s fat in a way that does restrict her clothing options and employment (she once told me that an interviewer had given her “feedback” on a job interview, and it was that she looked “sloppy”. She was wearing perfectly nice, clean, pressed, professional clothes- and expensive clothes of course, as that’s the rule for bigger clothes as we know. She was just fat in them.) Being “healthy” doesn’t really matter to this - and indeed if it did I wouldn’t have half of this rant - but she is. Fit and strong, great at physical things like endurance sports in a way I never have been. She is also perhaps the most self-aware and level-headed person I have ever met about stuff like this. When what people say bothers her, she will discuss her feelings and not try to hide them or their impact, but she will also deconstruct, and conclude that what the person has said is stupid. So it’s like she neither tries to pretend she’s immune to harm, nor allows others to be right in hurting her. 

And she eats exactly what she wants, and since we’re both autistic this also includes pickiness on sensory stuff - she doesn’t eat what she doesn’t want to, and does eat what she does. She was a great person to be around during my recovery, even though I never even mentioned to her at the time that I was in it (I didn’t tell anyone in my family about it until years later,) just because she made food such a non-issue. 

And our mother will not shut up about her size. Our mother is also fat, we’re a fat family, but my mother decided years ago that I am the one to make my sister “address her weight.” I literally left the country to get away from my family (not related to this specifically) and she STILL emails me about it. I don’t respond to those emails. I DO have lovely chats with my beloved sister on Skype though. 

I have tried all your scripts with my mom before - the team here have SO many great scripts that have worked wonderfully for me in other situations, like work or friend groups. I have told my mother I don’t agree, many times backed up with sources (sources thanks to you!) I have told her I’m not interested in the conversation and have hung up or walked away when she has persisted. I’ve called her out when she tries it on in public on multiple occasions. She will not stop. She is convinced that my extremely wonderful, fit and thriving, very happy sister is at death’s door. She’s also convinced that I, a person who has been repeatedly hospitalized for ED and the mental complications that caused it (which she now knows all about, and in fact did visit me in hospital the last time I was in, which was only a few years ago by the way) am the person to talk to her about it and make her see the error of her ways. My sister and I talk quite openly about this, and we’re both agreed our mother is full of shit and we’ll both be ignoring this. We both have also decided to persist in having a relationship with her, though with BIG boundaries around it. (Trust me, this fat bullshit is the thin edge of the wedge with her, and we’re both VERY exacting about when we will talk to her and what about. But we also both love our mother, and she’s the only parent we have.) The thing I’m most struggling with I think is that as I said, our mother is also fat. I actually feel some real sympathy here as I’m aware she’s clearly projecting her own issues on both of her daughters, but god is it mean. She couldn’t see how sick I was when I was skinny, even though I was very literally beginning to die (in fact, all she had to say to me was to mention my weight when I got fat) and she can’t see how happy my sister is in her life, because she’s fat so can’t possibly be happy, and she’s still, now, as perhaps some last gasp of control, attempting to make us fight each other over it. 

It hasn’t worked, thankfully, and it never will.

My mom has many other issues, I’m sure, but my god, it is sometimes quite astounding to look at what hell fatphobia hath wrought on my mom’s psyche and ideas of being a parent. I’m grateful my sister(s) and I instead read blogs like this so we’ll hopefully pass a lot less of this on. So I guess this rant is half a complaint and half a thanks. It’s been really helpful to be able to come here and read, for both of us (and our younger sisters as well, who we are steadily converting), to remind ourselves that mom’s wrong. My sister is fat and an exceptional person. I’m fat now too, and the world didn’t end (and in fact actually got a lot better.) Our mom is just plain fucking wrong.    Anyway, thank you. I know you’re not planning to be as active with new posts lately, but please know that you’ve been wonderful this whole time, and keeping your archives up is of immense help to at least this one group of sisters. It's been awesome to relay one of the younger ones to an older post from time to time (actually quite a few times!) Note: I wanted to tag ED as I do mention it but I don't see it in the list of tags under submission. I tagged "trigger warning", "Weightloss", and "food" to hopefully cover it. 

Apologies for the first post of this.

[livestock-and-bibles]

VERY curious about ur mouthwashing thoughts but also it’s been a while since ive seen the game so ive gotta rewatch a playthru augh

There’s a couple of reasons as to why I don’t have much interest in the game!!

1. Gameplay

I honestly cannot stand this new trend of horror games that are just the player talking to people, walking around, occasionally finding an object. I dislike this in the game Bad Parenting also. I’m like. Why does this have to be game? There’s no gameplays so what’s the point? I think it would’ve been more enjoyable as a novel or an animated series with the graphics it already has! It would be very striking. So yeah I find the actual gameplay very dull. Also the controls look really wonky from when I watched gameplay of it

2. Characters

I found myself not really caring too deeply about anyone? Like Curly is okay I guess, I like his design and the disability theming but his actual personality is so meh to me. Jimmy has potential but it never really explains why is inferiority complex is so deep so I’m just like ??? Barely any of the characters ever get and of their backstory or family life discussed except for Daisuke and Swansea but even then it’s very little (but those two are my favourite characters and I have very little criticism for them lol. They carried the game). I have so much hatred in my heart for the way they wrote Anya. It just feels so misogynistic to me. Like ofc the only woman on the crew has the rape as backstory + pregnancy plot. I’ve never seen that before /s. I’m just so tired of that being the only plot line women get in horror media. I understand the pregnancy is supposed to parallel with Curly’s disability but it’s still a very tired trope. Also her design is clearly ripped off of Wendy Torrance from The Shining lmao. There’s also a lot of other design elements that are kind of ripped off from Evangelion (the text on screen resembles the the title cards, Curly post accident resembles an Eva, etc.) so I just don’t really care about most of the characters and their relationships except for Daisuke and Swansea, and they don’t get enough screen time anyway lol

3. Plot

Most of the base plot is pretty good and interesting. It’s a solid premise. But I feel as though it’s kind of meandering until you get to the big twists. I was just watching like. When are we getting to the meat of the story. I do like the dual / non linear narrative, that’s always fun. Definitely some enjoyment was lost just bc I saw spoilers online, but I think a game is pretty weak if it’s enjoyment is completely lost because of spoilers, like I replay The Dark Descent all the time even though I know the ending because the story is that strong and the gameplay is fun. That’s where the game kind of suffers because the gameplay is so weak. Also I think the ending was kind of dragged out. I was watching the playthrough and I was just sitting there like. When will this be over. I get it Jimmy is terrible. We do not need five more scenes about this. There are some really fun moments though, like when he eats Curly’s leg or when Swansea mercy kills Daisuke (That’s always a trope I love) Though those are the only scenes I can remember where I was genuinely enjoying the game.

Overall I feel that the game was more style over substance, and a lot of it just wasn’t really my cup of tea when it comes to games. Don’t even get me started on how the fandoms seems to ignore Swansea (an old fat guy) and Daisuke (the only person of colour). Like y’all’s ageism, fatphobia, and racism is really showing guys. I see how y’all favour the white, conventionally attractive characters over these two,

I really wanted to enjoy the game. I really did. But alas. It just wasn’t really my vibe when it comes to horror games and I can be picky so it’s not to say that my opinion is the only correct one, it’s just how I feel. It was mainly the gameplay that I had a problem with, I just can’t get into walking simulator games lol

[bluescreening]

op is in fact extremely fucking right in regards to type 2 diabetes. it's mostly or sometimes entirely genetic factors. People with lifestyles with a lot of exercise and diets that are low in sugar very much get type 2 diabetes, as much as people who do not exercise and eat a lot of sugar don't. It's indiscriminate and the whole stigma and idea around type 2 is fatphobic diet pushing bullshit basically

hi op! i am a biology student studying to research autoimmune diseases like my relatives who are also biologists researching diabetes.

you're right, type 2 diabetes is caused by a variety of genetic and epigenetic factors, almost all of which only actually cause type 2 diabetes when someone eats too much sugar for their entire lifetime. therefore someone is normally only at risk for type 2 diabetes when they eat way too much sugar for their entire lifetime. you're also right in that some people who don't eat way too much sugar get type 2 diabetes, but it's very misleading to suggest that they make up the majority.

type 2 diabetes is very much not indiscriminate. it stems from insulin resistance which normally only occurs when someone eats too much sugar over a long period of time. type 1 diabetes, however, is when the body produces no insulin whatsoever.

type 2 does not have a stronger genetic link than type 1 because type 2 is largely due to epigenetic changes and single nucleotide mutations which are highly variable generation on generation and can happen to anyone. they are even highly environmental (or at least epigenetic changes are) which means they won't necessarily run in a family line. type 1, however, is a straight up autoimmune disease. it has an extremely strong genetic link (e.g. every descendant of my diabetic great aunt has diabetes while i do not).

as for your last point, it did give me some pause - perhaps I was exaggerating a little to say it could be cured. but according to diabetes UK, "some people with type 2 diabetes who improve how their body makes and uses insulin through weight loss may be able to put their diabetes into remission." you might think that the weight loss part is irrelevant compared to sugar intake but actually fat buildup around the liver and pancreas leads to insulin resistance so. make of that what you will.

i know that it must be difficult living with type 2 diabetes and fatphobia is of course a rampant issue in modern society. but type 2 diabetes is one of few illnesses associated with obesity which are actually directly linked to your diet. note that I never mentioned obesity as a risk factor so far, but instead talked about eating too much sugar. eating too much sugar leads to obesity and also type 2 diabetes. people shouldn't judge people for eating what they want, regardless of their health, but it's important not to spread misinformation regarding preventable disease.

in short, it's more than ok to be fat, just try to eat a healthy diet and you probably won't get diabetes.

[rosetyler42]

My fattest OC is Simon Van Dracula since...all the Drericka children I saw were (understandably) thin, and I wanted to play with a shipchild OC that took more after his bulky Van Helsing ancestors. Plus, he looks like Pugsley and a Debbie/Fester fankid, so that works for HT. Though he's technically more muscle than fat, he's a big fella and as such has to deal with some of the same fatphobia and such, even though he's actually quite strong and athletic. He's also a shy reserved humany dhampir so he's sorta the odd one out in many ways. I tend to like the big softie teddybear types like Sulley and Ord. Not only is it a good inversion from what you expect in the big guys, but they remind me of my brother and dad in a way. Simon's also based on Normie!Pubert, so him being the more reserved braincell in this nutty monster-human family kinda makes sense. Especially considering Mavis and Dennis, also on the more reserved side. I don't really have a love of food particularly with him. Aside from perhaps him being an athletic growing boy. Buy he's no Agustus Gloop, Bruce Bogtrotter, or even Frankenstein. As for hot...I mean, I tend to not focus on sexual stuff myself as an aroace, but I could see him being well-liked by people. His father's got quite the following of witches, and he has a similar personality and look to him. (Girls also seemed to like my brother, too. XD) I've even debated making him Bi/Pan as I think it'd be fun to invert the stereotype a bit, make a reserved Mspec character.

But he's no wimp, though. He's secretly one of the most dangerous of the Drac pack since he's had to work to be scary, mom wanted him to know he wasn't just a weak human, and he tends to be the quiet sensible cinnamon roll. He's very much a "Beware the quiet ones/Looks like a cinnamon roll, could actually kill you" type.

His heroes include Po and Viper from KFP (big gentle giant of a guy learns he can be a warrior in his own way, and a fangless snake who learns she doesn't have to bite to be tough.) his own Uncle Frankenstein (Another good hearted big fella with fears he's overcoming) his Dad and other mother (Drac and Martha, who protected his older sister from an angry human mob) His Mom (who protected his father and the rest of the family by standing up for them to their Great-great-grandfather and was something of the odd one out of HER family too.) and Popeye (a little human with with good heart and head on his shoulders who's tough enough to take on anyone.)

Hey

- Make characters OTHER THAN VILLAINS fat too

- No not just the greedy or food loving ones

- Not just older people or moms

- Make more characters fat

- Like actually fat

- With double chins, bellies, thick arms, fat necks, rolls

- And let them be love interests or protagonists or in respected positions.

- Let them be portrayed as hot. While being fat yes

- Make more characters fat

[angelmush]

google search : how to find love and compassion for my fat body when almost everyone else thinks it sucks :-)

[fatliberation]

Here Are Some Fat Positive Activists, Educators, Therapists, and Artists to Know!

First and foremost, the pioneer of organized fat activism:

• Bill Fabrey (he/him)

Bill Fabrey, a self-proclaimed fat admirer, founded NAAFA (the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance) in 1969 after gaining an understanding of the day-to-day oppression and discrimination faced by his wife, Joyce. Fabrey founded the organization in hopes to raise awareness of weight stigma, criticize biased studies, and increase overall acceptance and accessibility to fat Americans. He is considered one of the pioneers of the fat liberation movement, and is heavily involved to this day.

• Judy Freespirit, Sara Fishman, Lynn McAfee, Ariana Manow, & Gudrun Fonfa (she/her for each)

(Members of The Fat Underground, 1979)

Fat, radical, feminist members of NAAFA! Their agenda was much more aggressive than NAAFA’s, and eventually they broke off and formed their own group called The Fat Underground, which acted as a catalyst in the creation and mobilization of the fat liberation movement. Based in LA in the 1970s, the Fat Underground did not fight to change discriminatory laws but rather discriminatory thoughts and practices in different aspects of society, which included those of doctors and other health professionals who perpetuated the unhealthy habits encouraged by diet culture. In 1973, Judy Freespirit and Alderbaran published the “Fat Liberation Manifesto” which establishes that fat people are entitled to what they were denied on a daily basis: “human respect and recognition.”��The other objectives then outline the commercial exploitation of fat bodies by both corporations and scientific institutions. (x) I will go into more detail about the Fat Underground in my next post, “The History of Fat Activism!”

• Dr. Lindo Bacon (they/them), PhD

(no photo)

Creator of the concept of HAES (Health At Every Size).

Dr. Bacon is best known for their paradigm-shifting research and advocacy upending the weight discourse. They have mined their deep academic proficiency, wide-ranging clinical expertise and own personal experience to write two best-selling books, Health at Every Size: The Surprising Truth About Your Weight, and the co-authored Body Respect: What Conventional Health Books Get Wrong, Leave Out, or Just Plain Fail to Understand about Weight. Both are credited with transforming the weight discourse and inspiring a hopeful new course for the fat liberation movement. Dr. Bacon holds their PhD in physiology, as well as graduate degrees in psychology and exercise metabolism. Dr. Bacon formerly taught at City College of San Francisco, in the Health Education, Psychology, Women’s Studies, and Biology Departments. A professor and researcher, for almost two decades Dr. Bacon has taught courses in social justice, health, weight and nutrition; they have also conducted federally funded studies on health and weight and published in top scientific journals. Their research has been supported by grants from the United States Department of Agriculture and the National Institutes of Health. A truly great pioneer in medical health research! 

https://lindobacon.com/ | HAES | IG

• Aubrey Gordon, a.k.a. Your Fat Friend (she/her)

(no photo)

Aubrey Gordon writes about the social realities of life as a very fat person, previously publishing anonymously as Your Fat Friend. She is the author of What We Don't Talk About When We Talk About Fat. Her work has appeared in The New York Times, Lit Hub, Vox, Gay Mag, and has been covered in outlets around the world. She also hosts the podcast Maintenance Phase, in which she and cohost Michael Hobbes debunk and decode wellness and weight loss trends. Her articles are incredibly heartfelt and enlightening. You can read all of them at www.yourfatfriend.com !!

@ yrfatfriend on IG & Twitter

• Sabrina Strings (she/her), PhD

Sabrina Strings is an associate professor of sociology at the University of California, Irvine and the author of Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia, which exposes fatphobia’s roots in anti-blackness. Strings contributed an opinion story to The New York Times titled “It’s Not Obesity. It’s Slavery.” With Lindo Bacon (creator of HAES), she coauthored “The Racist Roots of Fighting Obesity,” published in Scientific American. Strings has a BA in psychology and an MA and PHd in sociology. This book is #1 on my to-read list!!

https://www.sabrinastrings.com

• Hannah Fuhlendorf (she/her), MA LPCC NCC

Hannah is a highly educated and experienced counselor whose work focuses on self acceptance, eliminating the effects of internalized oppression, and practicing through a HAES lens. She is a fat liberationist who puts out educational videos daily. Hannah is also married to a healthcare professional, and the two of them are working toward making the medical field more accessible to fat people in their local community, and offering education on how to be fat allies. I really admire Hannah and the work that she does!

@ hannahtalksbodies on IG and TikTok

• Tracy Cox (she/her)

Tracy is an award-winning performer and artist, who co-created the web series “Angry Fat People” with Matthew Anchel, which takes a pop culture approach on serious issues faced by fat performers. She has been interviewed by the New York Times on fat politics and accessibility, and currently has a huge following on IG where she unpacks fat performance, fashion, and politics. You may know her as the creator of the ‘fat vanity’ trend on TikTok!

@ sparklejams on IG & TikTok

• Da’Shaun L. Harrison (they/them) 

Da’Shaun is a non-binary abolitionist, community organizer, and writer. They are currently a managing editor and columnist at Wear Your Voice Magazine. They travel throughout the United States and abroad to speak at conferences, colleges, and lead workshops focused on Blackness, queerness, gender, class, religion, (dis)abilities, fatness, and the intersection at which they all meet. Da’Shaun is the author of the book Belly of the Beast: The Politics of Anti-Fatness as Anti-Blackness, which is expected to be published in July 2021. They have an incredibly enlightening social media presence as well!!

@ dashaunlh on IG and Twitter

• Lauren Buchness (she/her)

Lauren Buchness is one of my favorite artists. She’s a contemporary artist and fat activist based in Tucson, Arizona. By combining painting & performance, she aims to question Western standards of beauty and create conversations that alter preconceived notions about the fat body. Go check out her gorgeous work!!

@ ladybuchness on IG and TikTok

If you’re interested in learning about diet culture and intuitive eating, check out

Shana Minei Spence (she/her), MS RDN CDN

Shana is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist who opposes food restriction and encourages intuitive eating! She spreads food positive daily messages on her platform. She used to work in fashion, but she left after being dissatisfied with the industry and went back to school to become involved in food policy and public health. She offers counseling on a HAES approach. I have much respect for Shana!

@ thenutritiontea on IG

And right here on tumblr (who was my personal introduction to fat lib) -

@ bigfatscience !!!

An anonymous fat liberationist. They share so many great resources, diving head-first into the scientific research of weight and health, they’ve found that the relation between the two is extremely complex. They tackle the biases of  research in a system that profits off of fatphobia, and they offer a fat positive perspective based on scientific studies. Their blog serves as an easily accessible resource for fat folx and fat activists who want to learn about fat positive science to support their own personal interests/activism. Thank you for your work, bigfatscience!! (if you have questions for them, you will have a greater chance of getting a response with anon off!) 

• Sonalee Rashatwar (she/they), LCSW MEd

Sonalee is an award-winning clinical social worker, sex therapist, and grassroots organizer. They’re a superfat queer bisexual non-binary therapist and co-owner of Radical Therapy Center. Sonalee is specialized in treating sexual trauma, internalized fatphobia, immigrant kid guilt, and South Asian family systems, while offering fat positive sexual healthcare. Go, Sonalee!!

@ thefatsextherapist on IG

• Fat Rose (org)

Fat Rose organizes fat people, building a more radical fat liberation movement in strong relationship with other social movements, such as anti-fascism, anti-ableism, and anti-racism. Check them out on Facebook!

fatrose.org

Honorable IG mentions: (Some anti diet culture specific blogs in here, as well)

@fatangryblackgirl  @msgigggles @thefatphobiaslayer @bodyimagewithbri @saucyewest @fatpositivetherapy @fatlippodcast @chairbreaker 

BOOKS

And here’s an amazing list of fat-positive book recommendations from HannahTalksBodies!

Science & Health:

Health at Every Size by Lindo Bacon PhD

Body Respect by Lindo Bacon PhD and Lucy Aphramor PhD, RD

Secrets from the Eating Lab by Traci Mann PhD

Anti-Diet by Christy Harrison MPH, RD

Fat Liberation:

Fearing the Black Body by Sabrina Strings PhD

Fat Activism by Dr. Charlotte Cooper

Fat Politics by J. Eric Oliver

The Fat Studies Reader by Esther Rothblum (Editor) and Sondra Solovay (Editor)

Fat Shame by Amy Erdman Farrell

Self Acceptance:

The Body is Not an Apology by Sonya Renee Taylor

Things No One will Tell Fat Girls by Jes Baker

Eating in the Light of the Moon by Anita Johnson PhD

Happy Fat by Sofie Hagan

You have the Right to Remain Fat by Virgie Tovar

Thanks for reading! Please feel free to share this list of resources!

Image descriptions below.

1. [ID: A black and white photo of Bill Fabrey, a straight-sized, balding white man with thick black glasses wearing a suit and tie, standing at a poduim in front of a sign that reads, “NAAFA”. Beside the image is another photo of Fabrey, from his left side.]

2. [ID: A black and white photo of seven fat, female and gender non-conforming members of The Fat Underground, performing a recital.]

3. [ID: The cover of Sabrina Strings’ book, Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia. On the cover is an illustration of four upper-class white people in fancy colonial period clothing showing shock and disgust at a Black woman’s exposed body. Beside the book cover is a photo of Sabrina Strings, a straight-sized Black woman with dark brown curly hair wearing a blouse.]

4. [ID: Hannah Fulhendorf, a fat, white woman with straight hair dyed blue, wearing a black tank top and holding her shoulder while smiling brightly and looking into the camera.]

5. [ID: An artistic picture of Tracy Cox, a fat, white woman with long, straight brown hair, laying topless on a bed of flowers. There are flower petals placed strategically in her hair on her skin, and along her lower eyelid. Beside that image, is an image of the album cover for Angry Fat People, picturing two angry faces made out of white paper against a grey background. In the top left corner, black, bolded text that reads “AFP” and “FAT LIBERATION”.]

6. [ID: Da’Shaun L. Harrison, a fat, non-binary Black person with a beard, glasses, and long dreadlocks, wearing a shirt that reads, “TO BE VISIBLY QUEER IS TO CHOOSE YOUR HAPPINESS OVER YOUR SAFETY. -DA’SHAUN HARRISON” against a natural backdrop of autumn leaves.]

7. [ID: A watercolor painting by Lauren Buchness of a white and tattooed fat body, hands caressing abstract rolls of fat with wild blueberries and grapefruit between folds. Beside it is another Buchness watercolor painting of Black hands with long sharp nails, caressing the midsection of a fat Black body, with purple crystals growing out of the skin.]

8. [ID: Shana Minei Spence, a straight-sized, Black woman smiling with bright pink lipstick and her long wavy hair pulled back, wearing a floral pattern shirt and jean shorts. She is holding small marquee that reads, “BE CAREFUL OF WELLNESS COMPANIES THAT SAY THEY’RE PROMOTING HEALTH YET ARE STILL ONLY TRYING TO GET YOUR BODY SMALLER” and a heart symbol.]

9. [ID: Sonalee Rashatwar, a superfat, South Asian non-binary person with short black hair, wearing a long floral dress, standing in front of large glowing text that reads, “BIG GIRL ENERGY” against a coarse-textured wall.]

10. [ID: A circular logo with a red fist in the center, with text surrounding it that reads, “FATTIES AGAINST FASCISM” with roses separating the word “RESIST”. Beside it is another image, of eleven fat and superfat activists, standing and sitting on mobility scooters, holding fists and middle fingers in the air, wearing T-shirts and holding banners that both read, “FATTIES AGAINST FASCISM”. In front of the group is a large cardboard sign that spells the acronym “F.A.B.” which stands for “Fat Antifascist Brigade”.]

[daddyd0nt]

Oh and i had to sign an office-wide petition to not give a 2 year old girl adderall for weight loss purposes.  She is obese (like think the fat babies they bring on Maury) but she is healthy, she runs fast as the other kids, climbs everything, is already on a moderated diet, is just as active and incredibly strong, and is just this sweet little meatball of sunshine, shes this big little Samoan girl with the brightest smile in the world and such a good girl no behavioral reasons or learning difficulties and her pediatrician wanted to put her on adderall “to prevent obesity complications” and “kick-start healthy metabolic function” which makes me think hes getting kickbacks from the manufacturer but like these are the effects of a society that allows and nurtures a culture of fatphobia/thin worship is putting chubby BABIES on legal meth to slim them down.  But all the women in the nursery side of the building and both directors have signed formal refusals to administer the medication and we can make sure they don’t dose her at school at least but her parents are following this asshole pediatrician and as long as the medication is legally prescribed theres nothing we can do to keep them from dosing her at home and thats so scary like u think anybody would be against the idea of giving meth to a 26-month-old but apparently if u cook it in a government lab and sell it in an orange bottle it is acceptable.  We also have a 3 year old boy on Risperdal because hes autistic and it makes him “easier to manage”.  Another family is trying to fight for their 3 year old to get adderall because they decided they wanted a gifted kid and hes not living up to it. He still sleeps with a stuffy named “lammy “ and cries when he has to put it away after nap time and his rich prick parents are already like “we want him drugged smarter” and controlled substances are not hard to get in the very affluent area that my workplace serves. And that’s just on the nursery side.  I thought people were being Chicken Little but the sky is actually falling with the epidemic of drugging children too young to consent to a drug’s side effects

[welpnotagain]

So uh. What the fuck is Castle in the air?

A review by me because it made me angry.

It's of course well written. Jones is a fantastic author no questions asked however I am severely disappointed about the frank racism, misogyny and fatphobia in this.  Zanzib, besides being clearly a play on Zanzibar (a region in Tanzania an east African country) and the home country of Abdullah and Flower in the night, is obviously very Arabic/Alladin-esque and feels like a yet again cheap use of eastern culture as The thing that'll make it seem as something unknown and mysterious to European and US American readers.  I wish Jones had set aside more time to actually research and not make fun of the culture by making fun of piercings, big/hooked noses and dragging their politeness from genuinely polite into the ridiculous examples that sometimes occur in the story, which sure, they are fun to read but only as long as you ignore all the red flags.

Spoiler

And of course, by the end, neither of the two main characters follows the culture of Zanzib, their home country anymore but almost completely changed to follow the more western culture of the country that Howl and Sophie live in, Ingary.

End Spoiler  

Despite Jones best efforts Abdullah is quite unlikeable. He is extremely misogynistic and only sees women as something obtainable or something to give away, with their only saving virtue being that they might be pretty. It is also mentioned that he never found another girl pretty so Flower-in-the-night, who at the beginning of the book had never met another man besides her father, is literally the first girl/woman in his life that he thinks is worthy of his respect. While the plot of the first book was Howl falling for Sophie for her strong character and not at all her looks, this is exactly the opposite. Abdullah is constantly pointing out that Flower in the night is slim and beautiful and light-skinned. Her father going so far as to not even letting her outside in the garden during the day to avoid her getting a tan. All of Flowers personality, her wit, her kindness etc seems to be only a mere bonus but the one thing he really cares for is her looks. He even mentioned a few times how Sophie is entirely undesirable for her strong personality and is only good for giving the men a stern talking to when he wants to avoid a conflict. 

Every female character in this book lacks depth and is reduced to their attractiveness by Abdullah's standards, even the ones we already know and love. Again Flowers wits, her kindness (more assumed than displayed) and her beauty are all there is to her. She is The love interest, The reason for the entire journey and the reason we should cheer the main character on and she is simply bland. 

The only mention of overweight characters happens quite at the beginning of the book when Abdullah is almost forced into a marriage by his family, this and the talk about having multiple wives are constantly criticised and judged through a western lens (not that Abdullah thought any other woman worthy of his courting of course). He almost has to marry two very overweight characters who are related to him and the only way they are described is as fat. Nothing else, maybe stupid, every other thing they do is only to increase Abdullahs *disgust* at their fatness. It's described again and again that even when they are simply giggling the only thing he really notices is their fat wobbling. 

Spoiler

At the very end of the story when Abdullah finally manages to get to the flying castle to rescue Flower, she (who again has been described as smart) had been convinced by the other kidnapped princesses that since Abdullah didn't kiss her on their !second meeting! again Flower at that point had never met another man besides her father in her entire life! that meant he didn't actually like her and he wasn't attracted to her. And of course, by the end, the two fat girls that he was supposed to marry are sold off to the main antagonist as brides to be completely deserted on a faraway island that is only reachable every 100 years. Also, Of Course, the only thing these two have to say about that is that the antagonist is handsome so they are okay with being his wives and he is okay with them being his wives because they are fat. That is literally all, they are described as shallow, stupid and fat absolutely nothing else to them.

End Spoiler

The insertion of Sophie and Howl and the entire rest of the original cast felt like an afterthought. They could have very well not been there and it would have mostly been the same. So it does feel like they were inserted simply to give fans the much asked for sequel. Which isn't even really a sequel. Maybe she also wanted to avoid the world-building of a new country i don't know, two birds one stone... Jones writing disappointed me massively in this, the one saving grace was the voice actor that read the audiobook I was listening to. Kristin Atherton was great. All in all, I am utterly disappointed in this book, I don't care if it's a product of its time. The story was weak and reading this in 2021 just makes you feel icky and upset in a not-intended way. Not in a million years would this be something I'd recommend to be read to or by children. Jones playing racism and fatphobia for laughs and falling completely flat just isn't working for me.

[mysteriouslyfadingcreature]

I can’t explain how scary this is, as a child I was lucky to be healthy, and really physically strong for my age. I was also fat. I was told time and time again to lose weight, only at 16 did i get diagnosed with asthma. My pediatrician was an asshole because I was fat, and my family never did shit to fix it. Telling anyone, let alone a third grader, to go on a diet is wrong. If my mom hadn’t have been neglectful and shitty, I could’ve died. I got extremely lucky, and I’m glad that people are finally talking about this. Fatphobia kills. Never forget that. Fatphobia fucking kills people.

I work at a daycare with infants.

One of our baby girls is fat, in the 99th percentile for her age. She is super cute and sweet. Lately, she has been sick with various breathing issues, so she has been reluctant to take her bottles. Normally, she’ll take 4 ounces of formula at lunch and 8 ounces in the afternoon. Today, I was lucky to get to her take 5 all day.

There was a substitute covering a lunch break in my classroom today. We emphasized to her that we need to keep trying to get the baby to drink her bottle until she finished it. She said, “Why are you guys so worried about taking her bottle?”

My coworker replied, “That’s where all her nutrients are. She needs the nutrients and the water.”

To which the substitute replied, “But she’s so fat. She doesn’t need it.”

Thin privilege is a small, pretty baby getting better childcare because the caretaker doesn’t think she’s too fat to be allowed to eat.

[transgenderteensurvivalguide]

Hi I read in the faq your answer to someone about top surgery for fat ppl and I just want to ask for a bit more info... do you think i should wait until I lose weight first? Like I’m worried that even if I get surgery... I’m still going to be fat and then I’ll just have breasts still? Thank u! Sorry if this is a dumb question!

Lee says:

As long as you don’t have any serious health complications because of your weight, you can get top surgery.

Fat folk are probably going to have to get double incision top surgery, since their chest would be too large for a keyhole or periareolar, but they can get just as flat as anyone else with double incision.

It’s more likely you’ll get “dog ears” at the end of your scars towards your armpits, but that can be dealt with by getting a revision which is often free. Make sure you ask your top surgeon what their policy on revisions are, and what fees you’d have to pay if you needed one.

There can be some fatphobia when you’re looking for a top surgeon- there can be some increased risks for overweight people going under anesthesia, and some top surgeons use that as an excuse to turn down a patient even when it is possible for them to get surgery safely.

You may have to “surgeon shop” a bit to find a surgeon who is competent, capable and willing, but it’s possible and achievable! I have two fat trans guy friends who got top surgery in the past year, and they’re totally happy with their results.

Cancer-related mastectomies remove all of the tissue, while top surgery only removes like 90-95% of the breast/fat tissue and the last bit is used to create a “masculine” contour. So a complete mastectomy for cancer would result in a very flat, almost concave chest. You can see some examples of what “going flat” after a breast cancer related mastectomy looks like here.

There are some fat folks who choose to leave in a little more fat in their chest because they feel like the extra fullness fits their body type because some fat men have “moobs” but that’s a personal aesthetic choice and not required or something, and it’s possible to get a flat chest with top surgery if you tell the surgeon to make you flat. I do think the majority of folks choose to go fully flat, but there’s nothing wrong with choosing otherwise.

Because a typical trans double mastectomy leaves about 10% of the tissue in for contour, and a few fat folks opt for even more (although this isn’t common), it’s still possible for post-top surgery folks to get cancer in that tissue. That means top surgery may decrease the risk of breast cancer, but it won’t prevent breast cancer.

So you should still get mammograms if you are the age to start getting mammograms, or you should at least do self-checks. This is something you’ll have to talk to your doctor about, and see what they recommend!

On the website of one top surgeon, they said they took off enough tissue it was unlikely you’d get breast cancer, but another top surgeon’s website said that it’s still possible.

“Is top surgery the equivalent to a mastectomy? In short, NO. At least 10-20% of normal breast tissue is preserved in most patients, especially behind the central pedicle (by necessity), and peripherally by design, to avoid unnatural contour irregularities. In addition, the female genotype is generally still at play, and there is no evidence in the literature that the use of testosterone is protective against breast cancer. Therefore, we uniformly advise that all patients engage in self-breast exams (generally easier with less overall tissue remaining) and start getting mammograms when they would otherwise be recommended (generally starting at age 40), especially (and occasionally earlier) in patients with a strong family history of breast cancer, or positive genetic testing. If a breast cancer were to develop, this would likely be managed (by a surgical oncologist) as it would in any smaller-breasted patient.” -Source

I think it depends on what procedure you’re getting as well, like how an inverted-t incision might be a bit fuller than a double incision with grafts. This article says you might also want to be tested for BRCA gene mutations to help decide what kind of surgery you’ll get if there has been breast cancer in your family.

If you’re worried about getting breast cancer because you’ve tested positive for BRCA gene mutations or family members have gotten cancer, you may want a cancer preventative mastectomy where they take out all the tissue instead of a cosmetic mastectomy like they do for top surgery. If you don’t like that look, you may be able to get silicone pectoral implants once you’re fully healed. But the procedure and your options should be discussed with your treatment team, and this whole thing really only applies to folks who are at a high-risk for cancer so it’s something you could talk to your surgeon about at your consultation. 

Anyway, that’s a lil tangent. Top surgery (via double mastectomy) is pretty customizable in the amount of fat you choose to keep, so you can choose if you want a very flat chest, a more contoured chest, a breast reduction or “moob-like” chest because they’re doing large incisions which means they have lots of room to work with when it comes to excising the fat and using liposuction.

If you gain a lot of weight after top surgery your chest may get a little larger, but it won’t regrow to whatever your pre-surgery size was because the breast tissue has been removed.

You can see an example of a larger fellow who got a flat chest here, and another example here. It’s definitely possible for fat folks to get flat chests after top surgery if that’s what they want from the procedure! 

Trans Bucket has a ton of pics of this, but right now folks say the website seems to be acting up so your mileage may vary with getting an account.

The Facebook groups Top Surgery Support (removal/reduction) and Non-Binary Top Surgery both have a ton of pictures uploaded as well, but you can’t see any “before” pictures there because of Facebook’s NSFW ban. They’re still worth checking out though for the personal experiences, community, support, and post-op pics.

There are a lot of folks who find it really hard to lose weight even if you’re eating healthy and exercising and all that because the body really doesn’t want to lose weight, so waiting until you’ve lost a significant amount of weight might not be an ideal timeframe for getting surgery because you might find it really difficult to lose weight which means you’ll keep pushing back the process of getting surgery until an undetermined date in the future, and not having surgery or an idea of when you’ll be getting surgery can be bad for your mental health if you have a lot of dysphoria. 

And it may also be easier to start getting active when you’re healed from top surgery because you don’t have to worry about wearing sports bras or hiding your chest while in the gym and stuff.

Personally, my advice would be to start the process of getting surgery now if you know that it’s what you need. So that means finding a surgeon, getting your WPATH-compliant letter or whatever else your surgeon/insurance needs to perform/cover the procedure, and schedule a consultation. 

If your surgeon tells you at the consult that they are requiring you to lose weight before you get a surgery date, at least you’ll have an idea of how much weight you have to lose which can help direct your goal and keep you motivated. 

And you may also want to consider getting a second opinion with another surgeon too, which would be my recommendation if the first surgeon has a weight-loss condition before they’ll operate and you don’t think that goal is possible within a reasonable timeframe, because the second surgeon may be more comfortable with the risk and say that you can get surgery with them without losing weight.

Anyway, what you choose to do is up to you, but I’d try to get a consult ASAP and go ahead with surgery because if you don’t get completely flat after top surgery and you end up with dog ears or something, you can always get a revision.

That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to lose weight at the same time (in a healthy way with the guidance of your doctor) if it’s something you want to do, and trying to get started on both goals simultaneously is possible, but even if you don’t lose weight you can still get great top surgery results.

So you definitely can get a flat chest after top surgery even if you weigh a lot pre-op and have a big chest- I’ve seen it myself a ton of times!

[diamcndgirl]

♡ ˙ ˖ ✧ WALTRP’S TASK 019: under the cut are all headcanons for penelope hainline. all triggers are listed and tagged. 

♡ ˙ ˖ ✧ THE RE-BRANDING OF MISS PIGGY (tw bullying, fatphobia): okay, we all know about penelope’s horrible freshmen year. getting to go to prom with an popular boy, voted prom queen, then a scene from a horror movie being played out before her eyes, right? well, now you know. penelope was totally wrecked. after years of torment from her fellow classmates due to her being a little chubby led to a total transformation. she decided she needed to be her own fairy godmother and fix her problem on her own. that meant getting a gym membership, a therapist, and a whole new attitude. from that day forward no one was going to call her fat or weak. she was going to be the strong girl she always knew she was meant to be. except.. it didn’t go exactly as planned. penny didn’t just show them how much she changed physically she decided to make them pay. cry just as many tears as she had on her own. make them wish they never called her piggy or oinked at her again. 

♡ ˙ ˖ ✧ LOUD AND PROUD: ever since penelope was a child she’s had a big mouth.. like really big. her volume level is practically at one hundred all day everyday. the blonde is very loud and has always been. screaming, sqeauling, and just generally not knowing what whispering? yeah, almost always. she was silenced in school for the most part. kids really didn’t make her feel great while she was there but when she was home and comfortable she was running about and back to her normal self. after her physical and spiritual transformation in high school she was more boisterous at school. freely using her voice to say whatever she felt about anyone around since that’s how people treated her. 

♡ ˙ ˖ ✧ KARATE KID: penelope took up karate as a child.. she never was super good.. her chubby little body could only do so much. but after her freshmen year she also started doing kickboxing to tone her body more and it was over from there. she fell in love with the style and still hasn’t given it up. she still practices karate but looooves kickboxing. so it’s safe to say.. don’t pick a fight with penelope.

♡ ˙ ˖ ✧ FAMILY IS FAMILY (tw mommy issues): penelope had a reasonable upbringing in hudson, new york. a small town a couple hours outside of new york city. her mother an ex-model and socialite married her father who was a business lawyer that was away most weeks in the city. they sent her to the nicest school in their small town and always bought her whatever she wanted. her father treated her like a princess and didn’t believe in telling her no (like literally ever). so it was fair to say she was completely spoiled but so was her mother. it wasn’t like they had true problems at home.. it was just she never seemed to be enough for her mother. her mom always pushing her to do better, be better, and absolutely couldn’t believe her daughter could ever be bullied. it drove penelope insane just being in the same room as her mother because the woman critiqued her every move. you should’ve heard what she said when penny told her she was being bullied and needed to change schools... it was truly hateful. ‘oh please. toughen up and lose some weight. you’ll be fine’. and after that statement it made her not even want to mentioning the bullying to her father. the sad thing is you would think with her transformation that would bring some joy to her mother. but it’s still ‘you could always slim down a bit more... boys may like that but i don’t... are you really wearing that?... imagine if you had a good personality to match your new body...’ you know just the worst things a mother could say. she doesn’t even call to check on penelope anymore. her father is the only one that seems to call.. but yet he is still too busy with work to truly care.

♡ ˙ ˖ ✧ : KISSING FROGS: penelope hasn’t ever actually had a real relationship. plenty of one night stands (that she was not aware were one night stands), plenty of flirtationships, plenty of first dates. but has never actually hooked anyone while fishing for love. boy does she love to flirt.. but part of her will always go back to what happened with axel and she gets scared that someone is pulling a trick on her. how could anyone truly like her even after all the changes she’s made? she’s still miss piggy on the inside... but also no one has really treated how she feels she deserves. she doesn’t want a relationship like her parents.. all show and no substance. she wants someone who likes her for her... even if her is a loud, squealing, fashion and karate loving, miss piggy. until then she’s kissing frogs until she finds her princess or prince. 

♡ ˙ ˖ ✧ MISS RUNNER UP: penelope did pageants as a child (yes, penny was a toddler in tiaras girl) and her mother spent countless hours and dollars on costumes and pageant lessons... only for her to never win. even when she tried in high school penny couldn’t place first. penny’s mom is lovely enough to blame it all on penny’s personality.. and the fact she argues with all the other girls competing. 

♡ ˙ ˖ ✧ SEW IT UP AND SHOW IT OFF: the blonde has always had an eye for fashion and she just really loves it. while most girls dream of being a famous singer or actress (penny does that too) penny wants to be a fashion designer. and she’s going to walt academy for fashion design and a minor in business so she run her fashion empire without worry. 

[maddie-grove]

Little Book Review: Good in Bed

Author: Jennifer Weiner.

Publication Date: 2001.

Genre: Chick lit.

Premise: Cannie Shapiro, an entertainment journalist in late-1990s Philadelphia, is on a break from her slacker boyfriend Bruce--until she learns that he's written a column about their relationship for a women's magazine, in which he (a) refers to her as his ex and (b) reflects on the challenges of "Loving a Larger Woman." Devastated at his exploitation of her deepest insecurities (and furious that he's blamed the demise of their relationship entirely on her self-esteem issues, rather than his laziness or their sexual incompatibility), Cannie tries to move on. Complications abound, ranging from devastating tragedies to madcap capers.

Thoughts: I read two types of non-YA novels when I was still a kid. The first was thick, decades-spanning, literary-yet-popular books by younger Silent Generation/older Baby Boomer authors (i.e., John Irving, Pat Conroy, Margaret Atwood, and Amy Tan). The second was chick lit, a genre that now seems to have disappeared into contemporary romance and "women's fiction." In the early to mid-2000s, though, it was going strong, and, as far as I was concerned, Jennifer Weiner was its queen. I first read Good in Bed in sixth grade, and I was enchanted by its portrayal of adult life. (Both love interests left me cold, but that had more to do with the fact that I was eleven and my ideal man was Michael from The Princess Diaries movie.) I also found its takedown of fatphobia refreshing. At that point in my life, I'd already been "too chubby," "too skinny," and "normal," and I was already weirded out by the whole thing.

The book held up surprisingly well on reread, although certain things definitely hit me differently as an adult. The most significant one is the presentation of Cannie's mother, a late-in-life lesbian. She's a lovely character--funny, supportive if not always demonstrative, full of hard-won confidence after a life of compulsory heterosexuality and a brutal divorce--but Cannie's always pointing to her sexuality as an example of how "screwed up" her family is. I don't think this is meant to be homophobic, but it's like, girl, it was screwed up when your mom was stuck in straight hell. Now she's happy, and her partner is merely a finicky but good-natured over-sharer. A less minor issue is that Bruce seemed less worthy of scorn—not because he doesn't suck, but because Cannie is so out of his league that it feels kind of gratuitous when she blasts him for being a lazy, constantly high mama's boy. Only kind of, though; he really does blow. Finally, Bruce's new girlfriend should've been charged with aggravated assault, and it's weirdly glossed over for something with near-tragic consequences. I actually thought that was weird as a kid, though.

Those things aside, the book does a great job at balancing low-stakes, slice-of-life drama with heart-wrenching angst and wish-fulfillment scenarios. It's a testament to Weiner's talents that there's no tonal whiplash. Instead, the different elements combine into a sweet and wistful yet grounded story.

Hot Goodreads Take: Cannie is criticized both for not being fat enough (she's a tall, busty size 16, which admittedly is barely plus-sized, but, geez, it's not nothing) and for doing "nothing significant to control [her] weight but jump from a crash diet to another, never bothering to control [her] intake and make time to exercise" (which is directly contradicted by the narrative, and also maybe someone should tell this guy she's not fat enough). It's amazing how often this happens! If a woman is chubby or fat but below an arbitrary size and says fatphobia is bad, she's simultaneously not fat enough to complain and unreasonably demanding that everyone accept her "unhealthy lifestyle" while finding her sexually attractive.

On a lighter note, one reviewer says of Bruce: "He somehow becomes a love columnist for a major magazine, even though he always seems to be wearing sweatpants in public." I think it helps to picture him wearing Juicy Couture. He would've been ahead of the curve back then.

[alias-b]

sins of my youth. 020

Billy Hargrove x OC! Evie Fenny~ Also posted to my AO3

Summary: It was common knowledge that Billy Hargrove hated Hawkins. Hated Cherry Lane. Even loathed the strange girl next door. Evie Fenny wasn’t too fond of the chaotic Cali transfer either. An awful high school tradition sparks a chain of events that changes everything, ultimately bringing two frayed souls together.

A/N: Hello everyone. Thanks for clicking in to read. Billy and Evie continue to explore their new relationship together. Max's fourteenth birthday party marks a change for the teens, reminding them that danger isn't too far off. TW: Neil being Neil. Mentions of abuse. Something close to an almost assault/abduction off screen near the end. Light mentions of Pica & fatphobia. Sexual themes

***My tag list is wide open, just shoot me a msg to join it! Chat with me about the chapter if you have the time! Enjoy! xoxo 

Chapter 20: Rose Tint My World

  “Hold still, I’ll poke your eye again.”

   “I can’t breathe, you’re killing me.” Came a sniffled whine.

   “Such a baby. You asked.”

   “I said I was curious after you put the gunk on my nails!”

   “That gunk was a great color on you. You whine just like your big brother.” Carol had Max’s face clamped in her grip as she applied mascara. “Don’t blink, you'll smear it.”

   “Evie, she’s killing me,” Max lamented aloud. “This is not worth it.” Evie just laughed, setting a bowl of pretzels aside. Carol flicked a mirror up to let Max see her handiwork. “Whoa...It’s not terrible.” She gruffed in a mumble, tilting her head to see each angle. "Kinda like Madonna."

   “I’ll take it.” Carol stole some M&Ms from another dish as they shared a spot on Heather’s fuzzy carpet. A movie rolled on in the corner TV.

   Max about howled when Heather came in from the bathroom, face covered in green.

   “Monster!”

   “It’s a face-mask!” Heather planted her hands on her hips, prompting more laughter. “You’ll be more into them once your body really changes.”

   “Girls are way scarier than boys.” Max poked at her blushed cheek which had Carol smacking her hand away. Evie was draped across the bottom of the bed in her robe and nightie, half-watching the TV. “Can you do a zombie make-up?”

   Carol gave a snort.

   “I can do anything. kid.”

   “Eves, you want another piece of pizza?” Heather crossed with the box.

   “I’m so full.” Evie shook her head.

   “You had like one piece.”

   “I ate a big lunch. And lots of pretzels.” Evie snatched the pretzel bowl again for good measure. Truthfully, her appetite had been up and down lately. Mostly down. What with the pangs in her stomach that always passed and… “You sound like my mother.”

   “She was...extra peppy at the salon today. My mom and I got our monthly trim.”

   “Probably some guy she’s seeing, it’ll pass and another will come. Men are like Kleenex to her. Soft, strong, and disposable.” Evie shrugged to pluck up a magazine.

   “Hey,” Max began as Carol fussed over her, “so I didn’t want to make a thing of it, but my mom keeps insisting. My birthday party is coming. She and Neil saved so I could have it just at the roller rink and...they said I could invite whoever I wanted. But, I can’t ask the guys to come. So I figured I’d ask El. She’s really cool. But, maybe if you guys wanted to come? You can bring boys and pretend you’re not even at my party if it’s not your thing. I just-”

   “Max, we’d love to come.” Heather piped up first. “Evie and I rule the rink too.”

   “I look very cute in skates,” Carol agreed with a twitching smirk. “I'm in. I’ll bring Tommy, he sucks and he’ll fall down a bunch. We'll pretend we ran into each other so your stepdad can get the stick out of his ass.”

   “Billy has to go too cause Neil says it’s a family event.” Max turned to Evie. “I think he’d be happier with you there.”

   “I think Billy and I both are fine being there for you. I had my fourteenth at the rink too. It’ll be fun.” Evie beamed, legs up to sway idly. “Plus we haven’t met the Chief’s kid. She’s home-schooled, right?”

   “Yeah, she might be joining us in school next year.” Max stayed still for Carol’s brush. “Depends. She was uh...adopted under weird circumstances. You’ll like her. I taught her how to do that felting thing because of you and she made this funny one of her dad.”

   “I’ll bet Hopper loved that.” Evie winked. 

   “He’s kind of a babe in like a scruffy, rugged way,” Carol remarked. "Strong mountain man type."

   “Ew. He’s so old.” Max reeled back to laugh.

   “I’m just saying! I like a man in uniform. He rocks the khaki.” 

   “The moms in town do eat him up.” Heather shrugged, joining Evie on the bed with a handful of candy. “We all have our strange crushes. I like high cheek-bones. Guys with a little Bowie. Evie? You got one?”

   “Gia Carangi even if she isn’t modeling any more, I love her face.” Evie was flicking pages without looking. Howls from the TV went ignored through the chatter.

   “I called that. Fenny being into ladies. Try Iman.” Carol winked which earned her a look as if she hadn’t planted a kiss on Evie in a fit of rage.

   “People say Billy’s pretty like a girl.” Max had added which got the other girls giggling. 

   “I like this one, we’re so keeping her.” Carol got up to root for a bag of chips, popping them open. “Like the zombie face better?”

   “I still look too pretty.” Max appeared more goth than zombie.

   “You are pretty. Deal with it. We redheads stick together.” Carol stole Evie’s magazine. “Let us know when the party is, we’ll be there.”

   Max looked at the three older girls squished together on Heather’s bed. Chattering and supporting. Happy to have her around.

   A bright smile touched her face for the first time since Neil Hargrove walked into her home. 

** ** ** 

   Most days, all it felt like was floating. Floating through her house. Through Hawkins. Up and down streets. Through school. A stunning illusion she pulled like wool over her dark eyes.

   A woman in rippling silks walking endless halls toward a great, cherry red door at the end, but the door gets farther away and she's thrilled to continue on even still. Feather wings glittering to unfold from her back because heaven's light is beyond the door. Crystalline eyes with their hold. Waiting for her. The sky awaits her with caressing clouds. Opulent gold sun rays and twinkling stars when the world lies down.

   Evie knew she was too big for her wings most days. Too heavy to leave the Earth.

   Knew in her beating heart of hearts that was the first thing people think when they see her. This magnificent soul with drive and neon and talent reduced to a single shrewd glance. And they don't think twice until she's something vaguely sexual. Something marketable you can package and process and sell to the last drop.

   Easier to stomach something uncomely if you can slide into it ruthlessly to rut. They always come like animals, wailing as a banshee would to get off better than they ever will in their small lives. They eat it up. Cover it in sweat and regret and blame.

   These things that hang as little weights on her heartstrings swinging back and forth. They make her not want to attempt extending those wings to fly. Fear of heads shaking in judgement. Fear of looking uglier. More foolish for even trying. Poor thing.

   All because of one glance that couldn't be bothered to see worth in another human life. Sometimes Evie wanted to be skinny not because of beauty, but because she'd get a privilege pass to exist in this world.

   They think she shouldn't dress the way she does. She's probably lazy and self loathing because of added pounds. She has no real aspirations or means to achieve them. Those eyes that watch her eat. That shift away before they decide on another seat because the one open next to her just isn't right. They glare because of the extra room she might take up. Even sharing a few cordial words with fat girls seemed to be a task.

   Evie always notices and does the polite thing pretending she doesn't. She knows what her body looks like, no need to point out the obvious.

   Strange, how these snap judgements, these eyes that don't look twice; can villainize a body utterly. A body. Flesh, bone, and muscle. We're all made in heaven's image. All destined for paths we seek to control. Superiority should have been an illusion. But no, too much or too little, your worth dips low. Fetishes and internalized hatred for things that were shaped and colored differently. Blame.

   But, some days, when the wind soars just right...just strong enough...Evie can spread and illuminate. See the births and deaths of a million stars. Drop the little weights to feel the winds between her fingers. In her curls. In her wings. Feel her feet leave the floor for just a few fleeting seconds.

   The fleeting seconds of soaring always seem so worth it against a world of unsightly aches. Against snap judgements she can toss back to live in a flower petal haze.

   Evie tried hard to live in those moments when they flashed into her. Spotlights. Butterflies delicately landing on her flesh to open and close their stained glass wings for kisses. Evie felt crushed utterly in the most decadent way.

   Billy's soft lips on her neck to get lost in the pulse. Deft fingers that would push up her clothing as he moved in her. Eyes that wanted to see her. All of her. The prayers he could whisper against heating skin.

   A lot could be said about him. But, Billy was always happy to see her and that alone was air spinning into gold. His eyes would light up. Lips twitching. She could hear the single beat that his heart skipped. Even if they didn't speak, they felt this awareness for each other in the vicinity. Truly magic.

   Those eyes. That love of a face. Always staring pointedly to read her up and down. Always plucking the weights from her heart by listening. Always unafraid to touch her. Evie hoped she returned that. She really did.

   Fleeting seconds began to linger between them. Seeping slow and saccharine as fresh pouring honey.

   Sneaking away on walks while he let her hold his hand. Flirtation against school lockers that ended in several 'just one more' kisses. Double dates to the movies with Tommy and Carol. Sitting separately to make out.

   Driving up near Lover’s Lake to kiss in a parked Camaro while the sun laid itself down to sleep. Fumbling playfully to undress and explore. Watching the construction of a coming mall with Slurpees from the gas station. Tongues and lips colored all artificial cherry and strawberry.

   Evie would stretch her wings completely. Let Billy admire them until the world was all satin rose-tinted. She could forget her urges and worries and insecurities. All together. This was fine.

   She was fine. More then fine.

   He so liked to admire her wings. Pleasure crushed in as she moaned. Let his fingers explore contours and notches untouched before. Billy would take those prayers on his lips and drape them over her body. Spell them between fleshy thighs. Pulling more fleeting seconds for himself too.

   They could roll around under sheets and not worry about anything else. Have conversations that always felt silly and wonderful and weighted because they both mattered to someone so ardently. That alone was an ocean both could sink into.

   Something beautiful to behold. The real vision behind the great red door. Your soul mattering.

   Evie was in a bubble with Billy Hargrove. A stupid, dopey look on her face when Mona settled dinner down one evening. Steam rising from a huge pot.

   “Going out later?” Evie began to create sound or she'd be lost. "You colored your hair brown again."

   “Needed another change. Ah, I'm going out just with Karen and Claudia. Dessert and wine night. I asked Susan but that poor thing keeps standing me up. Did you finish Max’s gift for her party?” Mona scooped up huge portions in a bowl that Evie would only be prodding at.

   “Yeah, it’s set. Turned out perfect. She’s not much for jewelry but I think a personalized tie dye shirt will be fun. Might look cool while skateboarding. I also have that goody bag of sweets for her to fill up on we made.” Evie reminded herself to pick up her spoon. Took a few bites.

   “You’re not scarfing it down like usual, you love my crawfish soup.”

   “It’s delicious, I just had a big lunch.” A lie. Evie pressed herself to eat quicker, tearing a piece of fresh bread to chew. Thing was, she wanted to eat. She wanted to eat so badly despite the sickness welling inside her. The heavy ache made it a task. Mona eyed her daughter there. “My stomach's in knots a lot, just school stuff.” 

   “Well, you are a senior.” Mona pushed her own soup around. “I haven’t been around as much as I’d like to be. Just the salon and I met-”

   “I get it.” Evie’s lips spread in a flash, not wanting her mother to finish that sentence. “I’m with friends a lot and I keep busy with my music and the cat. I even wrote a new song.”

   “That’s two this week, you. Strumming along blissfully.” Mona gushed. “Whatever has you all creative and dewy, chase it.” Silverware clicked around and Evie stared at her dish. A broader smile crossed.

   "I will."

   “What’s it called?”

   “Ocean Eyes.” 

   Evie could be pretty transparent in the early stages of a relationship.

   These short weeks in with Billy. Lyrics flooded free. Sometimes he liked to watch her write and strum when they hung out. Trips to the lounge where she worked other nights got him a full show, but not of her original stuff. Songs marched forth.

   “Ocean Eyes.”

   “Cupid and Psyche.”

   “Honey Stardust.”

   “Neon-Tinted Hearts.”

   Rock. Pop. Lush and obscene with her glowing heartstrings. She wrote them for Fredrick too when they got together.

   “Doll Joints.”

   “Lollipop Lolita.”

   “Prince Charming.”

   After dinner, Evie stole a notebook filled with her every sinful lyrical confession of her time with Fredrick Bowers. Burnt it in an empty pot out back until Billy wandered out the back steps of his place. Asking her if she was trying to set the neighborhood on fire.

   “How can I help?” He’d snarked while the sky went all pretty peach fuzz. Evie just laughed and never explained what she’d burnt or why it felt this cathartic to watch the smoke rise toward a falling sun. She figured maybe this was the day she'd stop eating foreign and sharp objects. She could do it. She was happier. Lighter. It had to stop.

   It had to. She couldn't think about this haze shattering, it hurt too deep.

   Billy used the flame to light his cigarette comically and kissed her before inhaling the smoke. 

   “Can we take a drive? Or walk if you’re low on gas?”

   “Let’s walk, I got some cash doing my odd jobs for the damn neighbors, but I need it to last a bit longer with Max’s birthday. Got her this new board she was too chickenshit to beg our parents for.”

   “Aren’t you a darling big brother?” Evie crossed her arms to follow him when the flame dwindled low. They went around the house to the front, started down the street. “Iris has some hours for me that next Saturday night.”

   “You going to tell your mom about the secret job thing?” Billy inhaled and let smoke billow up into the afternoon light. They walked along Cherry Lane. Not touching. Counting steps while their shadows cast and the streetlights came up. A brisk night loomed, spring begging to creep through the month of March. 

   “I figured I could this summer. Around graduation. Just say I got something bigger since I’m eighteen and Iris can get me steadier hours. Gigs day or night. Maybe I’ll get to host a couple more drag shows. I miss those damn girls, the funniest performers know. I'll just let my mom down easy about the receptionist thing, hopefully she’s fine with it. Make it sound like I took initiative cause I'm a big girl.” 

   “And your grand singer plans?” He liked to ask about her and hang upon the syllables.

   “Still up in the air. I’m taking the year off to work and write. Try for a talent agent or manager. I can record maybe...try to get airtime. There’s this contest thing, they do it every year and the winners always do well. But, I’m honestly too afraid to ask my mom about it just yet. I’m saving though here and there.” Evie beamed. “You? Summer and on.”

   She was clearly asking if he was sticking around for summer. 

   “Odd lawn, house, and car jobs are getting me by. This whole street is a mess and the moms in town like to watch me work."

   "Yikes." 

   "It means better pay and tips. I’m taking Heather up on her lifeguard offer this summer. I'll save up, Dad's already going to be asking for rent when I graduate."

   "Shit."

   "Yeah. Don’t wanna bank on that mall they’re opening with all the other little shits trying to get jobs first.” Billy leaned back to let the cooler air kiss his face, sighing before he tossed his smoke out. 

   Evie came to the end of the street near the forest, swayed around a streetlamp like she was in an old Hollywood flick. Dreaming long and endless. Sometimes she worried so often that she wasn't living. Just dreaming it all away. Maybe a center line was possible.

   Maybe she'd be able to soar over it all.

   Billy waited for her to swing back around it before he pressed into her for a slow, lingering kiss. Even better, maybe they both were sharing a dream. Making it of something stronger.

   “So, how am I doing?” He joked lighter. Evie gripped the lamp to stay level, head tilting. “Two weeks in, almost three. This whole situation.”

   “Situation.” Evie mused, slyly hiding half her face behind the lamp to hum. The shadowy starlet of a femme fatale she loved to watch on television with her mother. Glinting. Dangerous. "This whole situation?" She lingered to sigh it even slower.

   "You and me." He'd sounded out, drawing nearer. "Us..." Evangeline, always the playful nymph, flitted off playfully. Spinning the other way to walk along so Billy came to her side easily.

   “I think you’re doing fine." She tapped her chin. "What about me? Evaluate my performance.” 

   “Ah. In a sea of slithery tadpoles, you’re a goddamn firecracker.” He’d laughed and Evie followed, covering her lips with one hand.

   “I don’t know how any of that correlates or makes sense, but I’ll take it.”

   “Neither do I. Just made it up to see you do that. The scrunchy thing you do when you’re too happy or upset with me.” Billy’s nose crinkled as he grinned there. Evie came up to peck his freckles.

   “You’re a total sap, Hargrove.” Evie continued, hands clasped behind her back before she inhaled the air. “Let’s hit that mini mart nearby. I’m craving a Dr. Pepper. Buy you a soda. It’s my turn.”

   “No, it isn’t. You’re just being too nice again,” Billy remarked, feet shifting slower as they crossed the street. “I can’t take you fancy places.”

   “I don’t need to go to fancy places, I just like hanging out with you wherever.” Evie turned her head to see him. “We’re both poor, we make due. Summer will be better. We can just work and...figure this out. I like it right now though, so don’t worry because I know how you shiver in those boots.”

   She pondered it.

   “Do you like it?” Evie offered quieter, earning Billy’s eyes searching her expression. Lip twitching, he tossed his arm around her. Brought Evie taut into his frame with an easier grin so they could keep walking toward the whirling, illuminated sign in the distance.

   “Yeah, I like it.” He decided. “I like you plenty. What's not to like, Evangeline?” His free hand gestured out and Evie beamed to point at that darling face. Her Eros. Encouraging her wings to unfold without pressure.

   "Wow, you're getting better and better at that." A beat. "Making me blush without rolling my eyes."

   "Please, Angel, your knees quiver every time I hit you with this smile. You might as well toss off the panties for me." For good measure, he flashed it and Evie hid from his absolute burning charm. Cheeks felt that fire bloom and billow.

    A car hurried past them. Sweeping budding flowers and loose leaves about. Delicate, they danced. Trees wobbled back and forth to the wind picking up. Evie stayed looking away to smile that time. Knew this wind would carry her easily.

   "Did you have a best friend back in California?" She moved her arm around his back as they went. 

   "I don't know. Guess I had a few in orbit."

   "Am I your best friend here?" She piped back up and Billy slowed to glance, chuckling.

   "I thought you and I were avoiding labels."

   "It's different." Came the protest.

   "No, it isn't." He paused. "Heather's your best friend."

   "Yeah, but I figured I could have more than one. Perfectly carved places for each." Evie shifted in front of him, hands smoothing up Billy's shoulders to clasp fingers round his neck. Blue eyes glittered to search.

   "You trying to push some admission outta me, Fenny?"

   Lashes batted with all the innocence they could hold.

   "Just admit it, Hargrove," she pulled him down for a lip lock, pecking his jaw and cheeks until he broke to laugh and hold her at bay. One brow lifted. "It'll be our dirty little secret."

   "Fine. Only cause you twisted my arm about it and it gets you hot. You are my very," he palmed her bottom to make her gasp in one motion, "very best friend. Happy?" Billy stole a kiss when she was still dumbfounded, molding their frames together.

   "Maybe I am." Evie sighed, sounding too raw and honest about it. She came out to see his eyes there. Tried to read them. Billy blinked to say something else.

   “So, you're already thinking about graduation and summer, huh? Moving quick.”

   “I’m optimistic is all. It’s a rare thing with me so I'm just enjoying it. I’m not used to happy and good.” Evie got cheeky to hide anything else, winking over her shoulder before she went inside the tiny store.

   Fluorescent lights washed out too many colorful packages. They picked cold cans of soda and bright yellow packs of Jujyfruit candies to curb a sweet craving. Billy gripped the paper bag in one fist and Evie snatched his free hand when they got outside.

   “C’mon!” She picked up the pace. “Let’s catch the bus to the other side of town.”

   “Billy Hargrove doesn’t take the bus. It’s all full.” He’d complained, still rushing after her to the stop.

   “Try something new.” Evie was giggling, tugging at him to get on.

   With the bus full of residents leaving work, they took some standing room with a group up front. Fingers curled into the handles above, swaying closer together due to the rocking and crowding. A hard turn sent Evie into Billy’s chest, her hand sprang out over his shoulder to catch the bar just above his head.

   “Trying to jump my bones in public, little Miss Fenny?” He feigned a look of awe, brows lifting playfully. His free arm slipped around the small of Evie’s back, bracing her there into his marble frame. “You know how much easier it is if you just ask, Angel?”

   Evie wanted to scoff. Wanted to scrunch that annoyed look she was known for. Wanted to send him to the floor and kiss him for miles and miles. But, she just stood there in the dim, flickering bus lights. Watched his expression relax. Not really breathing until she reminded herself. 

   Billy seemed to remember as well. At the back and forth shifting of the vehicle, they squished together. Forcing looks away to see the path again. Billy pushed his thigh further between her legs. Both of them idly rubbing together now. Evie felt the heat crawl up her cheeks, lungs tremoring. Billy’s fist holding the bag shifting a little lower on her back, firm and scalding hot. 

   She peered up at his jawline. Looked away. Felt Billy’s eyes wander back after before he flickered elsewhere. Denim pushed against denim. Billy hitched this breath as if he might whimper. Swallowed it down. Hips swaying back and forth and back again. A thumb pushed deftly into her back. Evie shifting in, lips parting. Trembling as Billy turned his head to see her centimeters from him. 

   “This is our stop.” She’d said in his ear. Leaning flush into him to pull the cord down. Billy inhaled the amber. Brushed his nose into her own while she came back out.

   “Don’t wanna stop.” His freckles looked especially glowy outlined in a rare blush. The bus skidded and Evie veered back with some amusement. Brown eyes casting Billy up and down before she skipped off in a hurry, leaving him to chase her because he’d always chase her. Bag still wrinkled around Billy’s fist, he caught up with her. Under the streetlamps surrounded by dancing moths. 

   “We near Lover’s Lake?”

   “Yeah, the park nearby. Figured some loitering would do us good.” Evie stepped across the grass and sand. Listened to the dark structures creak. “C’mon. I love the swings.” 

   She plopped back into one, legs kicking some before Billy joined her. He cracked one can of soda to offer it, feet shifting over the sand to sway closer together. Chains creaking. 

   They clicked drinks and guzzled fizz before Evie snagged the candy out. Stealing a few chewy pieces. The bright box got passed back and forth during a comfortable silence. Billy watched Evie as she observed the moon there. 

   “Do you know any constellations?” She’d asked quieter, forcing him out of the daze. Curls caught the illumination with stars dotting her dark eyes. 

   “Not really.” He took the candy back as she swallowed a piece.

   “You see that crooked line? Those four little guys, they call that...Salem’s Lot. And...” Evie touched her lips, pointing again. “Those two bright boys there. Called Shawshank. Oh, and that one-”

   “These are Stephen King references.” He pushed her.

   “No, I’m very smart and they’re real-life constellations. Listen and learn, Billy boy.”

   “So, are you gonna call that grouping, The Shining or The Overlook?” He pointed to a cluster and Evie snickered.

   “Obviously that’s Carrietta White’s Constellation. Duh. Cause it looks like a rain of blood.” Evie snorted and Billy joined her, heads pressing together as they giggled like school children.

   “You know she wears a crushed red velvet dress in the book? Not pink as seen in the movie.” Billy stretched out, finishing his soda.

   “You know she’s fat in the book, too?” Evie winked at him, eyed the trash, and tried to toss her can at it. Missing badly, it smacked the rim and fell in the sand with a clatter. “Damn it!” Billy laughed at her louder.

   “Don’t try for a career on the court, Evie.” He watched her pout as she plucked it up to throw it away properly. “Now, watch the master work.” He aimed as she sat down. One deft hand reeled back and launched it only to have Evie’s palm smack it easily the other direction. Almost falling out of her seat cackling, she got the candy pushed into her arm before he gawked and went to get it.

   “Oh,” she kept up without air, “I thought you were the master? You should have seen your face!”

   “Yeah, yeah.” He grumbled, dunking it in the can with an echoing clank. For some cheery consolation, she offered the rest of the box to him. Tiny candy pieces fell into his palm before he pushed them all into his mouth at once, eyes lifting to the sky again. Billy made a face and turned to go to push her swing. “Gimme another constellation.”

   “Hmm.” Evie held the chains, began to swing properly at his coaxing. Felt like they were in a secret garden together. Water rippling against the air distantly. Cold chill not bothering either of them. “Those two stars. The little one and the big guy. See?”

   Billy gripped the chains, keeping her swing up against him to follow the gaze

   “That’s Neverland. Second star to the right and straight on till morning.” She snickered again as Billy pushed her forward. “Bet I can beat you there. I’ll jump from the swing.”

   “You’re on.” Billy stole the seat next to her, both of them pumping higher. Curls fluttering. Laughing. Happy because they were together and that mattered.

   “I’m going to overthrow Pan and Hook. Become the most fantastic Lost Girl with a siren song to command the island and you’ll write your stories.”

   “Think so?” Billy pushed himself higher. Actually thought he might fly with Evie there.

   “Yes! You’ll tell the greatest stories ever heard through the land and they’ll echo back down here to be loved too.” She proclaimed that. Not having heard Billy’s stories, but believing what was in his heart. 

   Time slowed. Wild laughter crackled toward the sky. Utter sparks as they jumped together and collided to roll around the sand. Evie was still alight with joy under him, hair splayed everywhere as Billy snapped up to check her over, hovering. Evie’s giggling tapered off against the night air. She stared up at him. Framed in twinkling stars. He said something she didn’t catch.

   “You have beautiful eyes,” Evie sounded out slower, lost in the endless crystalline blue. “Did you mean it?”

   “Mean, what?”

   “What you said when we were lying in bed together. You said I was the best thing about this place. People never say things like that. Not to girls like me. I believed it when you said it though and it was easy too.” Evie skimmed her fingers over his jacket. Watched Billy’s eyes flicker to recall that moment and the clouds he floated upon like lily-pads in a pond.

   Billy swept down. Planted a hot kiss that was all lips. Swelled her mouth when he pulled out. He left Evie fluttered and came to her ear.

   “That was a yes.” He pushed up, eyes too sly. “By the way.” Evie took a hand when he offered one and got pulled to her feet, bodies stumbling together. They tried to brush the sand off fabric. 

   “Do you think about that night? The dance, I mean. Not...the sex. Well, I guess it’s okay to think about the sex actually.” She blushed there when Billy’s lip quirked. His fingers still wrapped around her wrist. “Before all that went down with Brock. It was-”

   “Not terrible.” He finished.

   “Not at all. The first part of the night, sometimes I wish we could go back and-”

   “Rewrite it.” Billy looked around, giving Evie a tug. He pulled her up on the metal roundabout, painted red and blue that was chipping away. “Hold on.” Another smile had curled as he braced to get it spinning.

   “Billy!” Evie jerked to hold tight to the bars. Hair flying up. Curls coiled out. Fire billowing gracefully. “What are you doing!”

   “Turning back the clock,” he charged and jumped on with her, wobbling to hold something, "to redo it.” Evie grabbed for his coat. Fisting the fabric when they locked eyes. Wind rushed in a thrill with memories tumbling together and apart. 

   Her wings sprang forth.

   Billy made Evie the still point to his turning world. For just a moment. Knew, if anything, that meeting her was something truly important. An unseen force that would twist his heart forever.

   Spinning round and round. He recalled the metallic confetti dancing and the way the music pulsed. The carousel began to slow, both teens holding the bars and each other to say level.

   Slower, Evie pecked a kiss upon his lips to mirror the first. Unable to come out far, Billy was already closing the distance for the second. Trying to pay her back with a thousand sweet kisses. 

   Cheers rang and fireworks burst. She remembered it all too. How dizzy and still the world seemed to be. How it hushed for her too sweetly. Billy’s hands on her face, cradling delicately to angle the second kiss a little deeper. They felt the metal clink to stillness under them and inched back out.

   “I want to go home with you,” Evie said the words she wished she had that night. Huge dark eyes glittering. She found his lips again. Not worried about air or what the future held for them. Lost on a rosy haze and perfectly fine for these stolen fleeting seconds. “Can we go?” Billy searched her, thumb sweeping a circle into her jaw. He smiled fully.

   “Only if we can take the bus again.”

** ** ** ** 

   “Happy Birthday!” Evie gushed, offering a gift to a small pile. Max had her arms around her before she’d gotten a chance to turn. One hand shifted to the shorter girl’s back. Music whirled with a campy light show, made the horribly patterned carpets glow. “Carol and Heather are on their way in. Tommy’s around but he won’t hang near the table.”

   “Neil’s going to be late. Work stuff.” This explained why Max’s smile was so bright. Evie nudged her chin, head cocking. “You brought your own skates.”

   “I know it’s dorky, but they’re my babies.” Evie gestured to the red skates swung over one shoulder. “Evie Fenny doesn’t rent her skates.”

   “That’s El, come meet her,” Max pulled Evie off after she got one wave at Susan behind the table setting up. “Billy’s grabbing stuff from the car. He drove us.” 

   El Hopper was a tiny thing. Almost like a little bird compared to Hopper’s hulking frame behind her. She peered around and seemed at instant ease upon seeing Max.

   “El, this is my neighbor, Evie," Max introduced them, "she’s cool.”

   El made this gesture like she had a needle and poked at her hand.

   “Yes!” Max got it, tugging Evie’s arm. “She taught me the felting thing.”

   “Hope the sharp objects weren’t a bother in your house, Chief Hopper.” Evie perked up at Jim with a sheepish expression. “I should have asked you, I know it might seem a little dangerous.”

   He actually laughed at that. If only she knew the danger these kids had gotten into prior.

   “Believe me, crafts are a welcomed change.”

   “El, nice to meet you. I’m Evie. Max talks about you all the time.” Evie held out her hand and the young girl looked shocked. “Good things.”

   A slower smile crossed. She took Evie’s hand to shake it. Awkward about her navigation but trying to take everything in. Clearly never been to a party like this one. Kids of various ages circled the floor on skates. Laughing. Holding hands. 

   “Max...talks about you too. I like your hair.” El mirrored. Peered to Hopper with a pleased expression he matched. She offered Max a wrapped gift. Evie grinned and touched her curls, pulled up into two high, rounded buns.

   “C’mon, let me show you the table they’re setting up.” Max took El’s wrist to usher her off.

   “Are you...staying to skate?” Evie turned to the Chief.

   “El’s, ah, not used to crowds. She came from some unfortunate circumstances. I’d like to stay close. First party. Maybe I’m hovering.” He pushed his hands into his pockets. Not in uniform. Evie beamed a little.

   “She’s young, you’re worried. It’s sweet, actually. You’re just being a good dad.” The smile seemed to dither in her eyes. Even when Jack was married to Mona, he wasn't always around. Work and trips kept him busy, but he stayed to close to Evie the moment he arrived home with his little gifts and endless stories. “Don’t come running over if she falls, we got her.”

   “Yeah, uh, if you could keep an eye on El when you see her around. That would mean a lot to me. I know you babysat the Henderson kid. El doesn’t need a babysitter, she’s just… This is new for her.” Jim gestured. Digging for a smoke he couldn’t have in the immediate area. 

   “Heather, Carol, and I will keep an eye out.”

   “Carol?” He chuckled. “Perkins?”

   “Oh, yeah, we made up. Funny thing.”

   “Almost as funny as you hanging out with the Hargrove boy through winter.” He quirked his brow.

   “What can I say, Chief...” Evie shrugged. “I’m...branching out.”

   As if on cue, Billy paced in a side door. Bag clutched under one arm. He caught Evie’s glance instantly. Both of them locked in and back out on cue. Blue eyes shifted up and down because she was wearing his denim jacket over a little lacy, floral top tucked into her jeans.

   Neil would arrive and they had an act to keep up. Ignoring each other.

   “I’ll sit far." Jim offered. "Pretend I’m not here.”

   She about cackled, lost in thought still.

   “I’ll just pretend you’re my real dad,” Evie winced at herself, saw him pause with some subtle awe, “oof, I’m not sure where that came from. Ouch. Okay. Walking away now. Sorry, Chief.”

   “Evie.” He eased a gentle hand toward her. “What I said. If there’s...anything going on. You can talk to me. On or off the record.”

   “Yeap. Right. I’m okay. I’m...I’m gonna...skate. Yeah. Sorry. Oh, my…” Evie whirled to hurry off, cringing all the way to the table. “I think I just had a mental break.”

   “What?” Heather had chuckled.

   “Nothing. Time to skate?” Came Evie’s begging. Agreement followed.

   Hopper made himself scarce with a cigarette and plate of cheese fries in the corner. Billy plopped himself into a chair behind the decorated table, looking disinterested. Not catching Evie’s eyes while she sat with the girls to put her skates on. Just watched Susan set out plates for pizza and cake. 

   Evie went out with Heather first for a lap, both of them giggling and pulling little stunts to show off for Tommy who was on the ground as Carol pulled at him. Max jumped over his leg, cackling before she tried to get El to come out with them. 

   “Kinda reminds me of us. They’re too cute.” Heather quipped, whirling to skate backward. They joined the younger girls, hoping to get El relaxed and away from the wall she seemed to cling to. Every turn, Evie shot Billy a look. Got his lips quirking before he ruefully was peering away. 

   “Do you want to skate, Billy?” Susan had asked after a beat, weary of the music already. Bit of a glittery disco mess. That same dreamy rose haze in the air.

   “About as much as I want to give my old man a sponge bath, Susan.” Billy frowned for effect and dropped it when she actually laughed at him. It was an easier thing for them to talk without Neil’s shadow. 

   “Well, the offer is open if you want to.” Susan thought to tell him Evie looked beautiful today when she caught him staring at her for the third time but decided not to be obvious. Not yet. 

   “You’re supposed to tell me I’m being inappropriate and I’m going to send your only daughter down with me.” He recited easily.

   “I was your age once, Billy, I know how to laugh still.” Susan seemed surprised at the revelation herself. Slowly, she took a seat next to him. Not leaving another chair as a buffer like she usually did. “It might not be so bad. Her following you, you know, after this. When she’s older. She still looks up to you.”

   It became clear what Susan was asking him. Max would resent her one day down the line. For the choices she made. The things she couldn’t stop no matter how hard she tried. Maybe Billy and Max didn’t always get along, but he’d be a safer place for her than whatever was leftover in that house. Susan would always be under Neil Hargrove, but she could ensure her daughter would not be. One day.

   Billy leaned forward on his elbows, palms rubbing. He felt for his ring and remembered it was hidden under Evie’s dipping sweetheart neckline. He didn’t say anything, but met Susan’s eyes.

   “Evie’s been a good friend to her.” Susan crossed her legs and sat back to watch the girls laugh. Slowly easing into the conversation. El wobbled, holding hands with Max and Evie to gain some speed. Heather was trying to help Carol steady poor Tommy. “Don’t you think so?”

   “I haven’t noticed.” Billy turned his head aside.

   “She’s very pretty. Kind. That’s all I’m saying. She and her mother, they’re nice neighbors to have on Cherry.”

   “Jesus, Susan, why don’t you date them both?” Billy shot up to go to the snack counter. Susan ghosted this smile after him, hands clasping. “Cheese fries. Jalapenos...Extra jalapenos.” He got his plate and turned to see Chief Hopper’s cigarette glow red. “You got any more of those? My pack is out and they don't have a machine in this joint.”

   Jim just eyed him.

   “I’m legal.” Billy puffed before a stick flicked across the table. “Camels. Unfiltered. Disgusting. Are you a flannel hobo of some kind with those?”

   The Chief gawked at him.

   “Don’t you smoke Reds? Baby’s first cigarette.”

   Billy matched him. Offended.

   “I’m smoking with the big boys, Hop. You should try it.”

   “You in a place to complain, kid?” Jim reached to take it back before Billy swiped, lighting up to puff. 

   “No, sir.” His lighter snapped shut. “You unable to cut the cord or is dressing like a lumberjack to hang out at a 70s roller disco a hobby?”

   “Haven’t seen you down at the station in a while. Few months, in fact. Turning over a new leaf this year?” Jim remarked instead, leaning forward on his elbows.

   “Aw. You miss me or something? Your boys finally get tired of chasing me down? Or trying to.” Billy gave this comedic pout, head turning to eye Evie again. Graceful swan that she was out there. His jacket hanging off her shoulders, exposing that neck. Little wisps of curls swayed about from her space buns decorated with matching glittery star barrettes, loose hair framing her face. Brown eyes flicked up and he snatched his gaze away. “Guess I found something else to get into that isn’t trouble. You guys bore me down there, I like to be amused.”

   “The real crime-stopper, boredom. Color me impressed and shocked.” Jim seemed to like that, eyes rolling. Billy puffed and swept a piece of tobacco from his mouth. “I guess whatever you’re doing, keep it up.” He watched Billy crunch on some salty jalapenos, plucking five gooey fries at once to swallow them down. Almost starved.

   “I intend to.” Billy flicked his greasy fingers to his brow. “Chief.”

   “William.” 

   Billy mumbled as he went off, finishing the smoke to flick it out a back door. Eyes shifting to watch the girls plus poor Tommy. El was already better than him.

   “Man, I’m dying out here. Help me. I’ll tag you in.” Tommy scrambled up the sidewall and clung, out of breath. Freckles all dewy.

   “You wanted to be a good boyfriend,” Billy cackled for good measure, "that'll teach you."

   “Feed me a fry,” Tommy begged over the barrier.

   “Fuck out of here, they’re mine. My dad will show soon so you can disappear to a corner and get your own damn fries.” To make it a point, Billy stood there and fed himself.

   Behind Tommy, Max skidded and fell with Evie barely catching her. Both girls had gone down in a fit of giggling.

   “We’re fine, go on!” Max waved to Heather and El ahead of them. Carol came to steal Tommy back as Billy craned to see his step-sister.

   “You alright?” Evie was picking her up when Max’s shirt slipped closer to her pale shoulder, flashing a burst of purple there the size of a softball. “Oh, my god.” It slipped out before she could stop it.

   “That’s-!” Max cut herself off and fixed her shirt. Spring was creeping and all she donned was long-sleeved and frumpy. Dressing almost like Susan. “I fell, you know, on my board.” Evie tried to give her the dignity of a look that said she believed it. Must have cracked. “Evie, it’s nothing. Don’t worry. Please.”

   Dressing like Susan. Sounding like Billy.

   “Max, my house is-”

   “I know, but don’t… Don’t say anything. Not to Billy or my mom, ah… Neil’s here.” Max put her head down and skated around Evie to go away. 

   There was something particularly helpless about watching a young girl flee obediently to her monster. Evie wondered if this was what she looked like to Billy headed to Fredrick's place.

   Small. Scared. Lost.

   Neil Hargrove started with words. Lots of horrible words that whittled Max down to a hard pit. Then pushing. Then some grabbing. Then shoving. Into walls mostly.

   The hit didn’t bruise Max. It was more of a swipe to make her go to her room for talking back. Whatever that meant to Neil. But, he was drunk and he caught her jaw with an open palm. That stayed red for the day until she snuck a pack of frozen peas, not wanting Susan or Billy to know.

   But, the swipe sent her into the dining room table. Left the violet petals bursting under her skin. Evie lost the urge to skate and came out. Saw Billy’s eyes again and paused to help Heather usher El out for food. 

   “You’re a natural.” Evie complimented which earned a full smile. El opened her mouth to speak before Billy appeared in front of them.

   “They’re making us sing.” He cocked his head, peering at El. “You’re the one with the funny name, aren’t you?”

   “Jane. But,” she seemed to have trouble staring at him for more than three extended seconds and pointed to her chest, “El.” Red crept across her cheeks. Billy towered over her, cocking a wider grin to play up the fact that she was all blushy for a pretty older boy.

   “El?” He raised one brow. “What’s the L stand for?”

   “Ignore him.” Heather pulled the younger girl around Billy as he chuckled, pausing to see Evie. Her colorless expression.

   “You okay?” He said it hard with a furrowed brow.

   “Fine.” She tried to make it sound cold but it came out near silent. Head turned down as she flitted around him to join the party.

   Neil, stiff and stoic, pressing his lips like he was at the damn DMV. Susan plastered a broader grin to dote on him after his long day, lingering close to his side as they set out pizza and readied the cake.

   It was all so routine. Like getting your shots. 

   Pizza. Sing. Candles. Wish. Cake. Gifts. Thank you.

   Billy and Evie took the farthest seats from each other. Played a game of glance and ignore that they’d made up on the spot. They both were either losing or winning.

   “Strange,” Neil remarked as he pulled Max aside for another slice. “You and the high school girls.”

   “Oh, I invited El too, she’s my age. I didn’t want to leave Evie out and the girls...they’re nice to me.”

   “They don’t dress like nice girls.”

   Heather and Carol both donned perfectly normal tees and jeans. Nothing would suffice for Neil Hargrove. Max shifted her cake around. No longer hungry for it.

   “Maybe we’ll talk about the type of girl you should hang around at a later time. The Fenny girl is nice enough, even if her shirt is a little too...low. Dresses kinda tight. Bit of an odd one. She’s different. Her friends, well...I’m just not sure, Maxine.”

   “Yes, sir.” She looked at her birthday cake like it was infested with worms. Carefully forced a bite and set it aside. 

   Max hung around. Smiled and thanked everyone after each birthday present. Even hugged Neil only cause he opened his arms at her. She said bye to El then Heather. Carol seemed to be turning in as well so Tommy went out back to get the car. 

   As the party went on and dwindled, Evie caught Billy’s eyes gesturing to the rental counter. He slipped around the corner into the many shelves and Evie turned back to see Max and Susan at the table. Neil seated in a chair not helping them clean up, eyes elsewhere. Casually, she skated around and got her arm snatched. A gasp snuffed against a pair of lips. Kisses hidden away from the world. 

   “Paid the kid a few coins and a threat to leave for ten minutes."

   Music vibrated the shelves. Evie put her arms around Billy.

   “I still have skates on.”

   “Even better. I might have a thing for girls in red skates.” Billy was all hands, holding Evie steady. Pulling one leg around his hip. Pushing denim into denim. Hot friction might have done her in any other day.

   “We are not hooking up with all the smelly rental skates.” Evie laughed into his lips, still pecking back and peering over her shoulder. She paused to see his eyes. Wanted to blurt what she’d seen on Max’s body. Even to Billy now, it felt wrong. So, she said something else.

   “Hey, we should…keep an eye on your sister, you know. It’s her birthday. She’s...She needs her big brother.”

   Billy huffed into her neck.

   “Fine, fine, but you’ll regret not taking the adventure on here.”

   “Yeah, I’m sure.” Evie shifted. “My feet hurt and we can make-out in my bed later.” She kissed his neck. “I’ll do that thing you like if you promise you went easy on the product down there.”

   “Only dotted the gold crown. Scout’s honor.” Billy winked and she rolled her eyes. He peered out first. “Give it a second then follow.”

   “Wait.” Evie thumbed her red lipstick from his mouth. “Now, shoo.” Billy licked his lips and snuck out. She waited a moment. Let the happy butterflies land in her stomach then followed. Pausing, her skates came off for more comfortable tennis shoes.

   “Evangeline, do you need a ride home with us later?” Neil had asked. 

   “No, thank you, I was getting a ride with Carol now.” She smiled and looked for red hair to say her goodbyes. “Where’d Max go?” Evie collected her coat and Susan paused to peer around.

   “She was here a second ago. Neil?” Hands dropped a stack of plates into the trash.

   “Probably went to the bathroom.” He shrugged, squinting at all the moving lights that were making his head pound. “Billy, go find your sister.” 

   Billy seemed to notice the look on Evie’s face and feel the same chill before he hurried off without fighting. Susan looked through the sea of kids and teens meandering as Evie passed her to check the ajar side door. 

   "Max!" The one flickering light at the exit made her skin crawl. A cry echoed distantly followed by a dull crash in the dark. Like a bag of trash hitting the dumpster.

   Evie dropped her skates to follow the hollowed-out sound. Exhaust swept up her nose and tires gave a harsh wail, horns sounding while a faraway car disappeared around a row of trees to get to the main street with the rest. 

   “Max!” Evie charged out. Heart painfully thudding within her ribs. 

   “Evie?” Carol heard her and footsteps echoed around the building.

   “Max!” Evie was near tears now. A shift in some fallen trash bags made her pause when two sneakers appeared around the side of the dumpster. This odd scratching sound left her lips. Evie threw herself over the tiny body there, turned Max’s limp frame over. 

   Her shirt collar was ripped open where someone grabbed her. Or tried to. Dragging then dropping her when she put up a fight. Bleeding scrapes and dirt scuffed all over her pale freckled skin from the rough tumble. Carol got to them first and pulled off her sweater to cover Max’s torso while Evie gathered her up. 

   “Help!” Carol called because Evie couldn’t. More bodies arrived. Tommy. Susan. Billy. Neil. 

   “Neil, she won’t wake up.” Susan pulled her daughter out of Evie’s arms, shaking her. Moans filtered out, but nothing else. “What happened?”

   “I don’t know. I saw...a car. It was too dark. I just found her here on the ground. Someone tried to...” Evie wheezed out and never finished, gesturing aimlessly. 

   “Susan, give Maxine to Billy. She needs a hospital.” Neil swept down as Billy urged his sister’s tiny body away. This hard. flamed expression on his face as if he wasn't really here.

   Max looked broken. Not real. A doll left under the bed for too long without love or cherished stories to comfort it. Evie felt the knees of her jeans soak through from the wet pavement. Too many words hit the air and Evie’s eyes dropped to where that harsh car had gone to.

   Evangeline wondered what kind of monster would grab up a little girl and throw her out into the trash.

   And why the world bore so many of that same design.

~~~~~

Mad Max :( Her story line is gonna start to push toward the front here and there with Evie's in pieces. Thanks again for following the fic, I really appreciate it! Please please leave some words if you enjoy the fic. XOXO Taglist open

TAGLIST:: @80sbxtch​ @nottherightseason @alagalaska @alongcamedolly @kellyk-chan @10blurredsmoke10 @charmed-asylum @unmistakablyunknown @lukespatterson @arkhamasylumpatient-blog1

[transdro1ds]

h@nkc0n fandom is so fucking obsessed with c0nnor getting hank to eat better and exercise more. you don’t fucking know how much he exercises. it could be a lot. sometimes people are just fat. a lot of times when people hit middle age they gain weight for no reason and hank is in his goddamn 50s my dudes. 

also like?? he passed the physical exam to become a police officer at some point in his life, and you have to be reasonably strong and smart and fast to do that, and he’s a god damn police lieutenant, and we have EVERY indication that he used to be a fucking pillar of society and went into a huge downspiral when his fucking son fucking DIED.

and i’ve read multiple???? fics where c0nnor is like “come on hank we gotta go exercise” and he’s like “UUUUUUGH I DON WANNAAAAA” as if he’s never exercised before in his life and he sure as shit isn’t going to start now. HE! IS! A POLICE! OFFICER! HE’S EXERCISED BEFORE! HE’S BEEN VERY PHYSICALLY FIT BEFORE! THIS LITERALLY HAS TO BE TRUE IN ORDER FOR HIM TO BE A POLICE OFFICER!

Same for acting like Hank has never eaten healthy food before and turns up his nose at Connor offering him healthier options. Hank was a husband and a father. You think he and his wife and Cole ate fast food burgers for breakfast lunch and dinner every day of their lives when they were a family??? Fuck no! You know who does eat fast food burgers whenever they can? People who are just barely able to struggle through each day who certainly do not have enough mental or physical energy left at the end of each day to cook for themselves. 

The only problems with Hank’s health that anyone should be trying to target (and that someone should be a professional of some sort and NOT his boyfriend) are his mental health because he’s had persistent suicidal ideation for months or years and that’s the most urgent threat to his fucking life, and also, and perhaps at the same time, his alcoholism, which is not helping his mental health at all certainly and is itself considered a mental illness and is not doing great things to like, his organs and stuff either.

The issue with C0nnor barging in and transforming his life is that it doesn’t work that way. Any mental health professional or any person who works with addicted people can and will tell you that someone has to WANT to recover and has to take those steps by themselves or it doesn’t count--like, if you force someone to go to AA meetings and they don’t want to be there, they’re not going to get better, you know? (AA is also a very flawed model for addiction recovery but that’s a very different post!!!) 

I hate to say it but I think a lot of this ever-present trope for this ship is not only naivete about how recovery happens but also...fatphobia. Like, as I was writing this post I was able to reflect on a lot of the fic I’ve read and it absolutely boggles the mind how many fics I’ve read where the assumption is that Hank has never in his life eaten well or exercised and sometimes he doesn’t even know how. And people ignore everything else they know about the character that is a very strong indication that this is NOT the case, and their brains just subconsciously throw it in the garbage because look at him, he’s fat, everyone knows fat people are fat because they never exercise and they eat 700 burgers a day, right???? (That last part is sarcasm, dear god it’s sarcasm.)