#also no mr and mrs gardiner

[bennetsbonnet]

Although I absolutely had a great time at the production of Pride and Prejudice I saw last night, staged by a local theatre group (there truly is nothing like laughing along to some of Austen's dry wit in a room full of people) some of the changes made were quite... startling??? Which was understandably because the bulk of the action had to take place in the drawing room at Longbourn. But still, the more I think about it, the more I'm tickled (if a little frustrated).

It was all going well until Darcy's 'tolerable' comment was only reported on by Mrs Bennet the next day. Not seeing him say it really made such a difference. Then, I was surprised when the first time we actually saw Elizabeth and Darcy interact was at a substitute for the party at Lucas Lodge, except it happened at Longbourn, and they used the dialogue where Darcy asks if Elizabeth wishes to seize the moment by dancing a reel, which takes place later at Netherfield.

Honestly they toned down Darcy so much, he really didn't seem that bad and it was kind of difficult to understand why Elizabeth disliked him so much. The proposal wasn't nearly mean enough either, he insulted her connections once but again, it was difficult to believe she would be so against him.

The first act ended with the proposal and I was honestly having a great time. It featured so many lines that are usually left out of adaptations which I really appreciated, like Caroline teasing Darcy about his mother-in-law and how Elizabeth's eyes will be impossible to capture by any artist. But then, the second act began and it reminded me a lot of this image:

We didn't see or hear the letter from Darcy, just Elizabeth returning to Longbourn and discussing some of its contents with Jane. Then, the narrator explained that Elizabeth went to stay with her aunt and uncle in Derbyshire and encountered Mr Darcy there, who invited her to Pemberley and they found him much improved. But we didn't see it, or hear the good account of him from Mrs Reynolds? Honestly, if I didn't know the novel, I would've been quite confused about how Darcy changed or, indeed, if he even did and perhaps why he even needed to.

Buuuuut I won't be too harsh on anything else because other than those points it was genuinely enjoyable! Mr Collins, Mrs Bennet, Caroline and Mary were particular standouts, and Elizabeth was excellent!

And the limits of the production also amused me in some ways, as they had to come up with creative ways of getting characters alone for conversations. Some highlights included:

Wickham and Elizabeth having their conversation about Darcy at Mrs Phillips's alone in another room while everyone else was playing cards because Elizabeth was?? tired??

Mr Collins dragging Lady Catherine and Darcy off (after they had accepted his invitation to dine at Hunsford Parsonage... pffft) to show them a watercolour he had purchased. Which Lady Catherine abused as ugly and told him off for not consulting her before he purchased it.

Mr Bennet complaining servants had invaded his library with brushes to clean it, so could he speak to Lizzy about Lydia going to Brighton in private.

Overall, it was definitely far more of a comedy than anything else. Which I honestly didn't mind, it worked very well with the audience. Although there was disappointingly little pride or, indeed, prejudice, it was a very fun evening out and it's a novel absolutely intended to be heard aloud!

[thoumpingground]

So when Darcy went to fix the Lydia/Wickham situation, he first tried to get Lydia to return home, only bribing Wickham into marrying her when she wouldn't. This is sensible by modern standards, but we know from everyone else's reactions Lydia *failing* marrying Wickham would bring the Bennet family shame. Darcy knows this, and doubt he planned to leave the situation as is. So how did he originally plan to fix it?

I think Mr. Fitzwilliam Darcy was gonna channel his inner Emma Woodhouse (didn't have to dig far, they're very similar people) and play matchmaker. In my headcannon Darcy checked his "Possible Husbands for Georgie" list against his "People who owe me Gargantuan favours" list and offer whoever came up money to marry Lydia.

Now, he would want to spare the Bennets of as much of the scandal as possible, and wouldn't want to take the merit in front of Lizzie, so all would most likely happen discreetly through Mr. Gardiner, while Lydia was in London, and she would move to her husbands immediatly after.

However, I wanna propose a different scenario: Lydia returns to Meryton. Scandal ensues, the Bennets are disgraced. Then, within two weeks, a random well-off man shows up intent on courting Lydia and *only* Lydia. He heeds nobodys warnings and gives no explanations. Lydia loves it. Every other mum in Meryton is furious. The Bennets are confused and paranoid. Imagine the drama. The intrige. The million questions still unawnsered long after Lydia eventually gets married and leaves. Bingley marries Jane (cause of course Darcy still told him he'd been wrong to pull them apart, and Bingley would) and Darcy's still somewhat around. Maybe him and Lizzie get together, maybe not, but every time the topic comes up he gets all sheepish and awkward and she gets suspicious and it's a thing. It's their new dynamic.

[anghraine]

I always find it interesting that no one in P&P has any doubt that Mr Gardiner could and would have shelled out ten thousand pounds to bribe Wickham.

Mr Bennet is determined (at least at the time) to eventually repay him, when he believes Mr Gardiner paid it, but he does believe that. Mrs Bennet simply shrugs off the vast sum of money that everyone believes was expended to preserve Lydia's reputation. Her justification is that she and her daughters would have inherited all her brother's money if he hadn't gone and got married and had children of his own (how dare!). His assurance that she's going to be fine is not an empty one.

Elizabeth doesn't seem to doubt it, either. And earlier, at Pemberley, she assumed that Darcy had mistaken the Gardiners for members of fashionable upper-class society—a believable mistake to make, apparently, and he is surprised that they're Mrs Bennet's relatives. (I mean. Fair.) Their summer trip is likely not a cheap one. They're doing quite well.

In any case, I do think the Gardiners' prosperity and its bearing on the Bennets' situation is kind of overlooked by the fandom.

[tossawary]

I saw this play a while back called "Pride and Prejudice* (*sort of)", which was a comedic retelling of the events of P&P by five female servants. (Who all worked in the Bennet household, I believe? Cannot remember the exact setting at this point.)

It was very much in an "low-budget improv troupe" style (though it was not actually improv), so Mr. Bingley's exaggerated "love at first sight" meeting with Jane happened while he had his hand stuck in a Pringles can. A karaoke machine made multiple appearances. If you were looking for historical accuracy or a perfect examination of the social nuances, this was not at all the play to watch, but it was pretty amusing, and it was interesting to think about P&P from the perspective of servants who may have only heard about certain events through gossip. Or who might just be mocking certain figures because they don't like them very much. At one point at a party, a tipsy Lydia got her hands on one of the soldiers' guns and fired it at the ceiling while people screamed. It was VERY silly.

Because there were only five actresses, they were switching between roles as needed, putting jackets or colorful dresses over their plain white dresses. The female servant who played the dramatic Mrs. Bennet also played the stiff Mr. Darcy. Another of the female servants played both Bingley siblings (Charles and Caroline) and also Charlotte Lucas, I think? Another played Mary, Lydia, and Mr. Collins, and also Mrs. Gardiner, I believe. Another played Jane, Georgiana Darcy, Mr. Wickham, and Lady Catherine, and so on. The female servant who played Elizabeth played her most of the time. The quick changes and mannerism shifts were quite funny.

But my favorite part may have been that Mr. Bennet was played by a chair. It was a comfy chair with its back to the audience and a newspaper propped up so that someone might be sitting there reading it, and at one point one of the servants went over to the chair to light a pipe, so that smoke rose from behind the chair. Characters talked to the chair sometimes, but the chair never talked back.

So, at one point, Mrs. Bennet was yelling and moaning about how the family was ruined. I think that Lydia, whom the embarrassing and overbearing Mrs. Bennet had been actively encouraging to be silly earlier, had run off with Mr. Wickham here. And Mrs. Bennet cried out, "OH, MR. BENNET, DO SOMETHING!!!"

And everyone on stage looked towards the chair with its back turned, which was fairly obviously empty, and which of course couldn't do anything by itself, because it was a chair. Dead silence again.

And then Mrs. Bennet went back to wailing and crying, while her daughters (Jane, Lizzy) patted her awkwardly on the back. And then I think the another actress came in as a servant to announce someone's arrival or something, moving the comedic retelling along. And that's probably what I remember best out of the entire play: Mr. Bennet could be effectively played by an empty chair with its back turned. It was hilarious.

[thatscarletflycatcher]

Inspired by @kajaono's post the other day about Victoria Hamilton, JLM and Austen adaptations, have a list of the actors that have been in at least 2 Austen adaptations:

Hat trickers:

Victoria Hamilton played Henrietta Musgrove in Persuasion (1995), Julia Bertram in Mansfield Park (1999), and Mrs. Foster in Pride and Prejudice (1995)

Johnny Lee Miller played one of Fanny's brothers in Mansfield Park (1983), Edmund Bertram in Mansfield Park (1999), and Mr. Knightley in Emma (2009).

Doubles:

Joanna David played Elinor Dashwood in Sense and Sensibility 1972; she also played Mrs. Gardiner in Pride and Prejudice (1995)

Samantha Bond played Maria Bertram in Mansfield Park (1983); she later on played Mrs. Weston in Emma (ITV, 1996)

Bernard Hepton played Sir Thomas Bertram in Mansfield Park (1983); he later on played Mr. Woodhouse in Emma (ITV, 1996)

Sylvestra Latouzel played Fanny Price in Mansfield Park (1983); she later on played Mrs. Allen in Northanger Abbey (2007)

Nicholas Farrell played Edmund Bertram in Mansfield Park (1983); he later on played Mr. Musgrove in Persuasion (2007)

Irene Richard played Charlotte Lucas in Pride and Prejudice (1980); she then played Elinor Dashwood in Sense and Sensibility (1981)

Robert Hardy played General Tilney in Northanger Abbey (1987); he later on played Sir John Middleton in Sense and Sensibility (1995)

Sophie Thompson played Mary Musgrove in Persuasion (1995), and then the following year she played Miss Bates in Emma (Miramax, 1996)

Kate Beckinsale played Emma Woodhouse in Emma (1996); later on she played Lady Susan in Love and Friendship (2016)

Blake Ritson played Edmund Bertram in Mansfield Park (2007) and later on Mr. Elton in Emma (2009)

Jemma Redgrave played Lady Bertram in Mansfield Park (2007); she later on played Mrs. DeCourcy in Love and Friendship (2016)

Lucy Robinson played Mrs. Hurst in Pride and Prejudice (1995); the following year she played Mrs. Elton in Emma (ITV, 1996)

Carey Mulligan played Kitty Bennet in Pride & Prejudice (2005) and then Isabella Thorpe in Northanger Abbey (2007)

Lucy Briers played Mary Bennet in Pride and Prejudice (1995); she also played a minor role as Mrs. Reynolds in Emma (2020)

If we include Austen-adjacent pieces:

Hat tricks:

Hugh Bonneville played Mr. Rushworth in Mansfield Park (1999) and later on played Rev. Brook Bridges in Miss Austen Regrets (2007) and then Mr. Bennet in Lost in Austen (2008)

Doubles:

Olivia Williams played Jane Fairfax in Emma (ITV, 1996); she later on played Jane Austen in Miss Austen Regrets (2007)

Also, Greta Scacchi played Mrs. Weston in Emma (Miramax, 1996) and went on to play Cassandra Austen in Miss Austen Regrets (2007)

Guy Henry played John Knightley in Emma (ITV, 1996), and later on played Mr. Collins in Lost in Austen (2008)

Christina Cole played Caroline Bingley in Lost in Austen (2008) and then Mrs. Elton in Emma (2009)

Anna Maxwell Martin played Cassandra Austen in Becoming Jane (2009), and then went on to play Elizabeth Bennet in Death Comes to Pemberley (2014)

JJ Feild played Mr. Tilney in Northanger Abbey (2007) and later on played Mr. Nobley in Austenland (2014)

If we include radiodramas/radioplays:

Hat tricks:

Blake Ritson gets it as he played Colonel Brandon in the 2010 S&S radio drama

Doubles:

Amanda Root played Anne Elliot in Persuasion (1995); she also played Fanny Price in the 1997 radio drama for Mansfield Park

Felicity Jones also played Fanny in the 2003 radio drama for Mansfield Park, and later on played Catherine Morland in Northanger Abbey (2007)

Robert Glenister played Captain Harville in Persuasion (1995); he also played Edmund Bertram in the 1997 radio drama for Mansfield Park

Amanda Hale played Mary Musgrove in Persuasion (2007) and later on Elinor Dashwood in the 2010 radio drama for Sense and Sensibility.

David Bamber played Mr. Collins in Pride and Prejudice (1995); he later on played Mr. Elton in the 2000 radio drama for Emma

Robert Bathurst played Mr. Knightley in the same adaptation of Emma; later on he played Mr. Weston in Emma (2009)

Also in that adaptation, Tom Hollander played Frank Churchill; he later on played Mr. Collins in Pride & Prejudice (2005)

Juliet Stevenson played Anne Elliot in the 1986 radio drama for Persuasion; later on she played Mrs. Elton in Emma (Miramax, 1996)

And I'm very likely still forgetting someone.

[themalhambird]

Thinking about how Jane Austen's six novels taken together (in writing order, not publication order) become an increasingly scathing criticism of social class, i.e:

Northanger Abbey: Individual members of the gentry (General Tilney, chiefly) come in for some criticism, but mostly on a personal level: General Tilney is a grasping, tyrannical father to be sure but we hear little (though we might easily infer) of what he is like as the resident landholder. The final crisis of the novel, General Tilney's refusal to sanction Henry and Catherine's marriage, is resolved by Eleanor's marriage to a Viscount.

Sense and Sensibility: The "correctness" and "elegance" of the fashionable members of society- the Dashwoods, Robert Ferras, Lady Middleton- are negatively contrasted to the warmness and frankness of Mrs Jennings- whose kind-heartedness makes her more attractive, in spite of her lower-class origins and perceived vulgarity, than Fanny, Lady Middleton or Mrs Ferras (snr).

Pride and Prejudice: The aristocratic Lady Catherine de Bourgh is an interfearing busy body whose title and money only excuse her officiousness and rudeness. Darcy's pride in his superior situation to the Bennets leads him to act wrongly with regard to Bingley and Jane. Aunt and Uncle Gardiner, in trade, are more respectable- certainly better parental figures- than the gentleman Mr Bennet (and Mrs Bennet too). At the same time - Darcy's strengths are displayed in his undertakings as the resident landholder of the Pemberly estates- he supports the poor, and his situation allows him to shield the more vulnerable when he his spurred to act (Georgiana, to a less successful extent Lydia). Wickham's circumstances - debt, etc- could easily be read as the consequences of his wanting to step out of his place- his desire to be the oldest, or at least the second, son of a Mr Darcy- rather than what he 'is'- the son of Mr. Darcy's steward

Mansfield Park: Hey. HEY. look at the shitshow of a baronetcy. Lady Bertram is functionally useless. Sir Thomas is such a bad father that his daughters marry idiots just to get away from him. Also, having money can't give you intelligence or a personality. Most of "fashionable society" are actually miserable and mercenary and also probably immoralistic. The Church is clouded by corruption and isn't actively benefiting the local parish the way it should. The whole thing is underpinned by slavery, and the hardworking Price Children are ultimatley more deserving than the flighty Bertram ones. THAT BEING SAID: the portrait of Mr. Price is hardly better than the one of Sir Thomas, and Mansfield Park does stabilise- indeed, begins grows stronger with the reformation of its heir, and the implication that Fanny and Edmund go on to have children of their own. There is less of a quarrel with establishment, and more of a quarrel with the people who fill it.

Emma: "Gentility is inherent one can sense it in a person-" no you can't lmao shut up. There is literally no inherent difference marking out a gentleman's daughter and a farmer's daughter. Emma's snobbery as to class leaves her, at various times, both isolated and into some *serious* missteps. Emma and Frank Churchill both have a tendency to treat others as playthings, as their money allows them to do so.

Persuasion: The peerage/nobility are patently ridiculous throw them out in favour of [relative] meritocracy and hard workers. Sure, the resident landowners are supposed to be of benefit to those beneath them but they're not, actually, they take all of the privileges and fulfil non of the responsibilities and are pretty much uniformly selfish and our heroine Casts Them Off.

[princesssarisa]

I'm trying this poll about the Bennet sisters again, because the first time, so many people responded "Because the younger three are literal children." I admit I hadn't considered that the age gap might explain everything. Although I'm not so sure it does: why are Jane and Elizabeth also better than their parents, then?

Speaking of which, the last time I posted this poll, someone lectured me in the tags about the first option, informing me that Mr. Bennet isn't a good dad. They obviously hadn't read my other posts on the subject, because I'd be the last person to ignore Mr. Bennet's flaws as a parent! But since he is portrayed as smarter than his wife (not a better person, just smarter), then maybe he could have given Jane and Elizabeth positive guidance by being a more hands-on father to them than he has been to the younger three.

[enigmaticexplorer]

Writing Advice: Third Person Point of View - The Problem with Head-Hopping

A personal pet peeve in fanfic—and even some published books, unfortunately—is an author head-hopping.

I understand that not everyone learned about writing point of view in primary school, and many fanfic writers are new to writing and might not even realize they're writing head-hopping.

So, this post is an educational means for those who are interested in learning how to improve their writing.

I'm going to give a quick overview of point of view, a breakdown of third person point of view, and how to spot head-hopping in your writing.

What Is Point of View?

Point of view (POV) is the perspective (voice) from which a story is narrated.

There are three POVs.

First person

Second person

Third person

Third Person: Limited vs. Omniscient

In third person POV, the author is narrating the story through third-person pronouns (she, he, they).

Third person POV is subdivided into two categories: third person limited and third person omniscient.

Third Person Limited

In third person limited, the narrator is an external observer who knows the thoughts and feelings of ONE character at a time.

Here's an example from R.F. Kuang's, The Poppy War, page 341:

The Cike were stretched to their limit, especially Rin. Each moment not spent on an operation was spent on patrol. And when she was off duty, she trained with Altan.

Note that this paragraph—the entire book, actually—is from Rin's POV. We have access to Rin's feelings, thoughts, and observations throughout the book, while also seeing how other characters are acting.

But we are only in Rin's head. We do not have access to the thoughts and feelings of other characters. This is third person limited POV.

Third Person Omniscient

In third person omniscient, the narrator is an all-knowing observer who has access to the thoughts, feelings, and experiences of ALL characters in the story.

Here's an example from Jane Austen's, Pride and Prejudice, page 104:

As they drove to Mr. Gardiner’s door, Jane was at a drawing-room window watching their arrival; when they entered the passage she was there to welcome them, and Elizabeth, looking earnestly in her face, was pleased to see it healthful and lovely as ever.

Notice how we have access to both Jane and Elizabeth's 1) physical locations, and 2) thoughts. Even though Elizabeth is in a carriage and Jane is inside a house, the narrator is all-knowing and can narrate both of them at the same time.

The problem I see from many fanfic writers: they attempt to write in third person omniscient when they're actually writing shoddy third person limited, constantly switching between the POVs of multiple characters.

This is called head-hopping.

Head-Hopping vs. Omniscient

Head-hopping is when an author shifts between the POVs of multiple characters without a scene break. Meaning, the author is inside Character A's head but abruptly—and randomly—shares the thoughts, feelings, and/or observations of Character B.

Here's an example:

Kathy arrived at the cafe in hopes of showing Brittany her completed sweater. It was the first time she had knitted and she was eager to share her hard work with her best friend. Brittany took one look at the sweater and cringed. She hated it, but she didn't want to hurt Kathy's feelings. She didn't know what to say.

In this example, we are inside both Kathy and Brittany's heads. Both characters have distinctive voices, and because of this, the narration of the story is inconsistent.

It's jarring to read, and pulls you out of the story.

Here's the same example written through omniscient POV:

Kathy arrived at the cafe with the intent to show Brittany her completed sweater. After hours of hard work, the opinion of her best friend was important. At Kathy's approach, Brittany observed the sweater in her friend's hand and wrinkled her nose. The sweater was hideous.

In this example, we are inside the head of the narrator. The narrator is telling the story through its voice, rather than the individual voices of Kathy and Brittany.

Remember: Omniscient means the reader is inside the NARRATOR's head, not the characters'.

The Scene Break to Denote POV Switch

Back to my definition of head-hopping: Head-hopping occurs when a writer suddenly switches POV without a scene break.

Like the first example of Kathy and Brittany—there is no scene break between their thoughts. If the author wanted to write from both Kathy and Brittany's perspective, the author would have to include a physical break to alert the reader to a switch in POV. See below:

Kathy arrived at the cafe in hopes of showing Brittany her completed sweater. It was the first time she had knitted and she was eager to share her hard work with her best friend. ~~~~~~~~~~ Brittany took one look at the sweater and cringed. She hated it, but she didn't want to hurt Kathy's feelings. She didn't know what to say.

The squiggly lines demonstrate a switch in POV, and the scene would then continue in Brittany's POV. [Please note that a single paragraph space (as seen in the first example of Kathy and Brittany) is not a scene break. It is a paragraph break, and therefore cannot be used to demonstrate a switch in POV.]

You can write multiple POVS throughout a story. These will all be in third person limited POVs.

For example, each chapter in Rick Riordan's Heroes of Olympus series is dedicated to ONE character. Throughout that chapter, the reader is inside the head—reading the thoughts, feelings, and observations—of that singular character.

Individual chapters can also have multiple POVs (again, these are third person limited POVs). These are denoted by a divider or additional paragraph space.

For example, Timothy Zahn's Thrawn switches between the POVs of multiple characters in each chapter. The switch between his characters' POV is shown by an additional paragraph space.

Why Should You Care about Head-Hopping?

If writing head-hopping makes you happy, then keep at it. It's fanfic, and most readers are so desperate for content they don't care.

But, if you're interested in improving your writing, here are a few reasons why head-hopping is problematic:

It's jarring to the reader, and takes them out of the story. Frequent head-hopping can confuse readers as they struggle to keep track of whose perspective they are currently experiencing. It disrupts the flow of the narrative and can make it challenging for readers to form a strong connection with any one character.

It makes it harder for readers to truly immerse themselves in your story. Consistent use of a single POV allows readers to immerse themselves in the story's world through the eyes of a specific character. Head-hopping disrupts this immersion by constantly pulling readers out of one character's perspective and into another's.

It hinders character development. When the narrative constantly shifts between characters, there may not be enough time or focus on any one character's growth and development.

It takes away the emotional impact of the scene. Head-hopping can prevent readers from fully empathizing with or understanding any particular character's emotions, motivations, and inner conflicts.

Even well-established authors struggle to write omniscient without head-hopping. It's a nuanced subject that can be confusing to understand and difficult to overcome.

Again, this post is simply to inform writers about third person point of view and the subtle differences between its subdivisions. It’s not an attack on fanfic writers.

[bennetsbonnet]

I've just had the best afternoon EVER!! 😭

I went to the theatre to see a production of Pride and Prejudice* (*sort of) and I genuinely do not think I've laughed that hard at anything in a long time. It was absolutely hilarious.

Five women played most of the parts, although Kitty was not in it and Mrs Gardiner was just Auntie G!! But the absolute BEST swap was Mr Bennet, who was just a chair with book pages sticking up. 0 dialogue even when the girls/Mrs Bennet were screaming at him for help. I cried.

Personal highlights:

Bingley getting his hand stuck in a Pringles tube when meeting Jane

Elizabeth singing You're So Vain to Mr Darcy and swearing at both him and Mr Collins when they proposed

Smooth Operator playing when Wickham was introduced, who told Lizzy all the Darcy tea while they were smoking outside next to a bin which had 'JANE AUST-BIN' written on it

Mr Collins forcing Elizabeth to sing Lady in Red to Lady Catherine, while he went and danced before her

The actor playing Mrs Reynolds was also Darcy and delivered the accounts of his good character with extra venom, so good

The dialogue was modernised but it absolutely captured the spirit of it, while still keeping some memorable lines like Elizabeth screaming 'what are men to rocks and mountains?' when walking near Rosings and the ULTIMATE swoon-worthy Darcy line 'I cannot fix on the hour...'

Was quite a spontaneous decision to go but I'm sO glad that I did. This particular production demonstrated both how timeless the story is and how absolutely hilarious it is. 10000/10, if it's on anywhere near you, you should definitely see it!!

[hotjaneaustenmenpoll]

Round One Round Up!

On Valentine’s Day 32 men set out to win your love now only 16 remain. 

As representatives of Mansfield park both the Sir Thomas Bertrams proved the old adage like father like son leaving the competition in the first round and are already on a ship bound for the West Indies.

Mr Bashski tried his best against his regency counterpart but like the Mr Bennets of 1940 and Death Comes to Pemberley he has retreated to his library away from the folly of our little tournament. Sir Walter Elliot (1995) has been forced to retrench and takes with him the first of our Admiral Crofts (2022) who has been struck down with a bad case of gout. 

Proving yourselfs to be more like Caroline Bingley than many would care to admit you found both 1995 and 2005 Mr Gardiner’s cheapside dwellings below your notice and cringed from Sir William Lucas (1995) and his offer of introductions.  Though all the connections in the world could not spare Mr Hurst (1995) from the first round chop. 

You also gave the cold shoulder to Mr Woodhouse (1996) so much so that in fear of catching a cold he has sequestered himself away joining fellow 1996 Highbury native Mr Weston in exile.

The last three losers of round one were two of our Sir John Middleton’s (2008,2024) as you decided you would rather not compete with your own mother for your husband’s attention. General Tilney (1987) was also found NOT GUILTY not just of murdering his wife but also of being a dilf.

The next round will be the quarter finals, once again it will be a three day poll and it will start in about an hour! But first let us say to our round 1 losers…

Farewell Gentlemen! 

[anghraine]

Queuing this because it's 3:30 AM and I don't keep normal person hours any more, but I'm just thinking about how one of the reasons that Mrs Gardiner's response to Darcy at Pemberley and then in her letter is so endearing is because—

Well, the thing is, I think a lot of the characters conflate the distinction between Darcy being an asshole (sometimes true) and Darcy being reserved (often true). Sometimes other characters are responding to him being genuinely obnoxious, and sometimes people are overreacting to him being quiet and stiff in a way that people throughout the novels often respond to reserve.

And something that's really nice about the dynamic between Darcy and Mrs Gardiner is that he's actively trying to be courteous now, and he still comes off as reserved and formal, and she concludes that this is basically okay.

I joke about her deciding Wickham is hotter and then walking it back while still believing Darcy is evil, but this is part of an interesting process where she essentially thinks out loud. Her starting point is "hmm. attractive, but not as attractive as Wickham", and then she actually interrogates that reaction ("or rather...") and realizes it's not really about how perfect their features are (both have that), but more about demeanor and expression and so on.

Wickham gives this impression of goodness that goes well beyond his physical appearance and which Darcy lacks, and it's this that makes him seem more attractive to her. Yet she concludes that the kind of stiff dignity in Darcy's manner is fine, actually. It's not as engaging, but it suits Darcy, and makes him seem like a good person, too (the danger of vibes lol).

Later, in her letter to Elizabeth, Mrs Gardiner comes back to that—she really likes him, yet that lack of liveliness in his manners is something she's continued to notice about him. At the same time, she thinks this is something that will soften in marriage and just doesn't seem to find it that big of a deal. His real flaw as far as she's concerned is not being reserved but being stubborn. (Interestingly, this is what Darcy himself suggested was his main flaw long before.)

Basically, she distinguishes between "this is morally wrong" and "this is a bit off-putting" in a way that very few characters do, and even though she's sometimes mistaken about things, it's really pleasant to see someone doing that.

[burningvelvet]

I officially finished Pride and Prejudice yesterday! Some more rambles to add to the ongoing collection:

1 Learning that Wickham and Lydia are on the downward path I predicted is really satisfying for some reason. Just the image of the classic rake being forced to marry the unruly teen he had a fling with and then being forced to deal with the repercussions of his actions for the first time in his life — so good considering he seemingly believed he could partake in ruining her reputation and get away with it. And Lydia isn’t consciously suffering (although in reality, her prospects/reputation have indeed suffered) because she’s so oblivious to the misfortune around her that she thinks her life is much better than it is. It’s all just so true to life imo. Nothing is black-and-white. Every family has the worrisome trainwreck couple and these two are the perfect representation of that. Also, Wickham/Lydia give me major Byron/Claire Clairmont vibes (my fellow Romanticists iykyk).

2 Elizabeth’s conversation with Lady Catherine was so nerve-wracking. Elizabeth handled it so well, which surprised me. Toward the end of the novel I was getting a sense that Elizabeth had really come into her own self & seeing how expressive she became in comparison to some of the other women around her was very refreshing.

3 Elizabeth and Darcy’s long conversation while walking was actually cute, I can’t lie. I didn’t really find Darcy personally appealing at first, but he grew on me — which I’m aware was the intention — but due to the popularity of the romantic elements of the story in popular media and film adaptations, I was really surprised just how little Darcy and Elizabeth interacted if we take into account the entire length of the novel and how many actual conversations they had. It’s more realistic that way due to how things like travel, socializing, and marriage were conducted back then. I think for the sake of modern audiences and modern concepts of romance/etc., adaptations and maybe even fans themselves really overemphasize the romantic elements of the story. What I mean is that it is a love story, yes, but our concepts of love in the Anglosphere have changed a lot since Austen’s time. Adaptations reflect this change, although they also probably skew the reader’s reception of the original novel. Alternatively, the Georgian era was a bit more lively than we regularly think, which is seen by Wickham/Lydia’s rendezvous, and so we could also interpret the novel as containing more passion covertly hidden beneath the pages. There are a lot of ways to interpret the concepts of love/romance as shown in the novel.

4 Lydia is truly her mother’s daughter imo. I don’t have a thought-out argument to defend this opinion but it definitely showed that Lydia was her mother’s favorite and Elizabeth was her father’s favorite — and interestingly, they married two men who were enemies to each other, and diametrically opposed in personality. I think one of the biggest takeaways from the novel is that the Bennet parents were an ill-suited match and so their children are having this struggle of trying not to repeat the generational curse — in Lydia’s case she fails like her parents did, whereas Elizabeth and Jane manage well.

5 I routinely forgot that Mary Bennet existed. Like was she even in the novel or was I just zoning out every time she appeared? Lmao

6 Mr. Bennet sarcastically saying that he loves Wickham and Collins more than Darcy and Bingley because the former two amuse him more and give him free entertainment… same tbh!

7 It’s interesting how all the men and women function as foils for each other and represent various reactions to the system they live in. Mrs. Bennet, Mrs. Bingley, Lady Catherine, Mrs. Gardiner, are all interesting to compare to each other, and Mr. Collins, Mr. Bingley, Mr. Wickham, Mr. Darcy, Mr. Bennet, Mr. Gardiner are also in that way very neatly comparable.

8 I’m biased because I’ve studied Shakespeare but I really got a big Shakespeare vibe the entire time. I saw someone on here post that the novel may have been inspired by Much Ado specifically and I completely agree! I looked it up and there have been articles and academic papers writing about the influence of Shakespeare on Austen and P&P particularly, so we’re not alone here.

— Overall, I’ve been pleasantly surprised to find that I enjoyed this book way more than I thought I would! If none of you have read it, or are only familiar with adaptations, definitely give it a try.

[bethanydelleman]

Okay but (if you don't mind--please ignore this otherwise) what is your take on the "strategical importance of Jane" post? I read it and op makes an interesting assertion about Elizabeth's plans for her life. Definitely not one I have seen before, either on Tumblr or by Austen scholars and I was wondering how you would critique it.

Here is the post. Also, I said this in the notes of that post, so this isn't a sneaky take down. I made my opinion clear to OP.

The part about Elizabeth not wanting love but respect in marriage and about her watching her parent's horrible marriage is absolutely correct and in the novel. The Gardiners would also likely help if Mr. Bennet died, though they have 4 children of their own and possibly will have more, which would stretch their funds.

Here are the problems:

This posts states that Elizabeth's backup plan is to live with a married Jane, as if this is a fact, not headcanon. It is headcanon at best, a gross misinterpretation of Elizabeth at worst. There is zero textual evidence in the book for this interpretation. And Austen has given such evidence: Anne Elliot in Persuasion thinks to herself that if her father marries she'll just live with Lady Russell.

Elizabeth does not refuse Collins because she has Jane as a fallback, she rejects Collins because she cannot marry such an idiot. She is risking genteel poverty because for her, being married to someone like Mr. Collins is worse. If you say she wasn't worried because she has a backup plan, you make her less brave and less principled.

Elizabeth has no reason to be so sure Jane will marry. Jane's been "out" for seven years now and has 1 (one) flirtation for her mom to brag about. As Austen says in another novel, "But there certainly are not so many men of large fortune in the world as there are pretty women to deserve them."

That post is a headcanon, and I think it's a very wrong one. Elizabeth is not consciously thinking to herself, "Eh, I can reject as many men as I want, because Jane will marry rich." She is just living her life as best she can, hoping to meet someone to love and marry.

[firthbetterorfirthworse]

2005 Pride & Prejudice

oh boy. I realize I am about to tread on dangerous ground here

I will say that I fully recognize that my prejudice (snort giggle) has influenced when I've seen this in the past. Colin Firth was my first Darcy and that's a hard thing to let go of, even setting aside my obsession preference for him.

That being said, this movie is visually GORGEOUS. Beautiful shots, sets, music, etc. I just...don't love the characterizations of the main characters. Most of the secondary characters I love! Explaining Charlotte's viewpoint for a modern audience and making her warmer, an awkward Collins (I could make a whole post about how if P&P were written today we would consider Collins autistic-coded), they did great! Also, Caroline gives the sassiest, bitchiest curtsies, which I adore.

I appreciate Lady Catherine, not just because I love Dame Judi Dench but because they clearly paint a picture of someone holding onto the past. Not that the costumes in this adaptation are particularly, you know....accurate. in any way. BUT she's got a style that more closely aligns with 1790s than 1810s. (Although maybe that was intentional? Cursory googling suggests the director wanted to bring it back in time but then why isn't everyon- you know what it's fine, it's fine I'm not gonna get into it here, but basically be hyper-accurate or throw all realism out the window, there shouldn't be an in between it just feels lazy)

I very much appreciate the heat in the proposal. It is a FIGHT. I think modern audiences can easily lose that feeling when they're reading the dated text on the page, but they are saying VERY impassioned things and making accusations and I really appreciate the energy this adaptation brings! And the almost kiss, it's hot I get it it's not true to the book but it's fine it's not fair of me to care so much for inaccuracy in this adaptation but not others. still gonna tho I miss the intimacy of her admitting the tragedy of Lydia only to Mr. Darcy, I understand that having the Gardiners there saves time and is more appropriate, but I have strong feelings about that scene where Elizabeth returns Mr. Darcy's trust when she doesn't have to and how it really speaks to her feelings.

Speaking of Lydia, LOVE that she's clearly so so young. Sometimes it's not as obvious.

And my dear Mr. Darcy, bold of you of all people to help Mr. Bingley practice a proposal

but oh dear if that scene isn't just absolutely adorable. I appreciate that this Bingley found some fortitude and requested a private audience with Jane. On second thought, maybe it's for the best that Darcy is the one to help him so he can be like "here's what not to say"

(I'm sorry, she even tells Mr. Bennet about what Darcy did for the family and they STILL didn't include the line about "I'll offer to pay him back, he'll rant and rave about his love for you, and that will be an end to the matter"?? How rude) (But I do adore Donald Sutherland, good scene for him)

The little epilogue scene is sweet, it's cute. I understand why people love this movie. It just doesn't hit me the same way please don't hate me

[absolutelynotclassicusernam-blog]

Anne of the Island Book Club: Chapter XXXVI, The Gardiners’ Call

Like everyone else, I love that Anne is published! Yahay! I would love to read that story of hers.

“Authors are kittle cattle. You never know when or how they will break out.” Pris, as little as we see of you, I love you.

I’m always surprised when someone who isn’t Miss Cornelia, especially before we even meet Miss Cornelia, says “so like a man”. That’s so solidly her catchphrase in my mind. It’s also quite funny that Anne is accusing Gilbert of only looking at Christine’s face like it’s a bad thing. Women today would be so happy if men would look at our faces and not at our bodies!

Stella throwing down each of her papers as she completes them! I love her too.

Dorothy Gardner has roguish hazel eyes. Who else do we know who looks like that? Does Anne like her only because she’s the nicest and Roy’s favorite sister—or is there something else at play? Also, how would the story change if Dorothy was Gilbert’s sister instead of Roy’s?

Mrs. John Blythe and all her cats! I love the little bits we get of this woman and I wish we actually got scenes with her instead of just hearing about her.

[lewinblue]

Sunny I just had a really, really sweet idea regarding our lovely Mr. Mears but it's also a little bit smutty (lol).

About a year after you and Mr. Mears were married, Nolly Gardiner married Pauline Dickens (I have Brian Geraghty and Rachel Carpani as the fcs if you need an idea) and it was all anybody could talk about in the lot for a while, but it wasn't anything compared to when you and Ben got married because no one would shut up about it (lol). Nolly looked amazing in his dress uniform and Pauline was gorgeous in the wedding dress that Glynnis Mayberry made her in her dress shop, more so when she ended up losing her shoe on the way out of the church and Nolly stuck it back on (the Salem's Lot newspapers had a field day with that one, lol).

You guys all had the reception at the local inn and sure enough, you, Ben and everybody else who was at the reception were completely smashed by the time it got dark. You two snuck off and decided you were gonna practice making Baby Matthew somewhere in the upstairs coat closet. You and Ben were goin at it pretty hot and heavy and pretty soon, you had him out of his good black suit and you were outta your bridesmaid dress in a flash.

Boy were you unprepared for the breeding kink that came out.

Ben was whispering all kinds of dirty shit in your ear about how he wanted to fill you up and give you a baby. That man has a BURNING breeding kink as well as a praise kink too.

And nobody except Matt Burke batted an eyelash when you and Ben stumbled back to the coven house for the afterparty, just slightly disheveled and with hickeys all over the two of you (lol).

No one batted an eyelash because Ben and his partner have done stuff like this before lol but out of respect (That’s what Ben says but his spouse knows that Ben actually kind of sees Mr. Burke as a father figure and would be a little embarrassed if he caught them).

Like I was saying, though, this isn’t the first time for anyone. The amount of times Mears have been caught in the act or right after is astonishing. Per book canon, Ben has no problem with public sex and it’s more so surprising to his spouse that it feels surprising that Ben would have a breeding link. It feels very much like a “should’ve seen that one coming” moment.