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oadara · 6 years ago

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Game of Thrones vs. ASoIaF Endings

As we continue our post-mortem of the final season of Game of Thrones the question in everyone's mind is, is the ending to the series the same as the ending to the book?

I would love to say that I don’t believe it is but I’d be lying. I think the end point of most of the main characters will be very similar in both books and show. How they get there on the other hand will be completely different.

In thinking about it these last few days, I’ve been trying to reconcile the ending of the characters on the show with where I thought they would end up in the show and books. So, I’m going to categorize the ending of the show characters vs. their book counterparts.

Highly Likely

Arya - her sailing away to find what is west of Westeros is actually a really old theory. It’s nothing new and I thought she would sail away from Westeros. Id hoped she would take Gendry with her but alas that was not the case.

Sam - I did think that Sam would be a Maester and I also thought he’d be the one to write the book for The Song of Ice and Fire.

Brienne - I do believe she will be a knight and that she’ll be the one to do Jaime’s entry in the White Book.

Likely

Cersei - I didn’t add her to the highly likely list because although I do think she’ll die, I think her death is going to go down very differently.

Jaime - Again, he’s going to die but I think his death will go down very differently.

Sansa - I don’t think she’ll be Queen in the Noth but I do think she’ll end up in a position of power more likely in the Vale.

Davos - I can see him being part of the post-war team that helps rebuilt Westeros.

Melisandre - She’ll die in the fight against the Others

Jorah - He’ll likely die in the fight against the other, trying to save Dany.

Theon - He’ll complete his redemption arc and die

Asha/Yara - She’ll most likely be in charge of the Iron Islands when all is said and done.

Euron - He’s going to die but I think he goes down very differently from the show. For example, I think the show switched the power dynamic between Euron and Cersei, with Euron having all the power in the books.

Tyrion - he should be dead but he’s probably going to live because he’s the authors favorite. But really, he should be dead.

Varys - Yes, he’ll die but it’ll be in service to fAegon.

I’m Confuse

Bran - His story in the books is very much tied to the Others and as far as I can remember there’s not much of an indication that he will end up as the ultimate ruler of Westeros.

We did a re-read of all of Bran’s chapters a few years ago and I can’t remember discussing any kingly imagery associated with Bran aside from the Weirwood throne he sits on. You can review the discussion of the chapters here.

Past 1: https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/119892-the-winged-wolf-a-bran-stark-re-read-project-part-1-agot/&tab=comments#comment-6416323

Part 2: https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/125401-the-winged-wolf-a-bran-stark-re-read-project-part-ii-asos-adwd/

Jon - show!Jon has always been much more gentle than book!Jon who jas a lot more of a bite to him. Season 8 version of Jon is completely mindless, I don’t know who that is. But there are some real issues here:

Parental reveal - I was actually one of the few people who thought that it would remain a secret to the general public who Jon’s real parents were. I thought this because of fAegon and how it would be impossible for Jon anyone to believe Jon after that goes down. I always thought that his parentage would be about his internal struggle with his identity, which we sadly never got an answer to on the show.

Fire Wight - So Jon is currently dead in the books and we assume given what information GRRM has given us that when he comes back he’ll be changed from his experience. That the Jon that returns will be a darker Jon. Cool! However, if he’s like Beric, the Lord of Light would have brought him back for a reason. Is that reason to kill the champion of the Lord of Light, i.e. Dany? Doesn’t make a lot of sense but who knows. We never got an answer to why the Lord of Light had brought Jon back on the show.

Jon and Dany - Given the existence of fAegon, I think it’ll change the circumstances in which Jon and Dany meet. Jon might already know who his real parents are when he meets Dany. The whole thing with the incest I don’t think will have the same problems it had on the show. I do think they’ll fall in love but I’m not sure it’s going to end any better than on the show.

As for Jon’s ending, I can see it happening. Him being exiled or just choosing to stay in the North far away from the Game of Thrones. There’s a quote from AGOT that I always used to justify my belief that Jon’s true parentage would remain a secret:

Tyrion Lannister had claimed that most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it, but Jon was done with denials. He was who he was; Jon Snow, bastard and oathbreaker, motherless, friendless, and damned. For the rest of his life—however long that might be—he would be condemned to be an outsider, the silent man standing in the shadows who dares not speak his true name. Wherever he might go throughout the Seven Kingdoms, he would need to live a lie, lest every man's hand be raised against him. But it made no matter, so long as he lived long enough to take his place by his brother's side and help avenge his father.

Dany - I think the removal of fAegon from the show had some serious repercussions that really distorted the narrative in a way that it eventually destroyed the characterizations of both Jon and Dany because they were forced to take up parts of his character that will prove important to the end of the series.

Dark Dany - Do I think Dany will be a darker character? Yes, of course, that’s pretty clear by the end of A Dance with Dragons. Do I think she’s going to become a villain? No, I don’t believe that. Do I think some, especially in Westeros might view her as a villain? Yes, absolutely. But there is a very big difference between show!Dany and book!Dany and that is what is their true heart’s desire. On the show, they made it the Iron Throne, in the books we know that what she truly desires is home and family. The difference in her motivations makes a huge difference in her characterization.

There’s an old theory that Dany will blow up King’s Landing, it’s been around for a while now and seeing how season 8 played out, it’s most likely true. However, the theory is she blows it up by mistake while fighting fAegon by setting off a hidden cache of wildfire with her dragon. While it is still a horrific thing, the motivations and her reaction to it would be very different. While they made her into a tyrant on the show, I can see Dany in the books horrified by what happens and trying to seek redemption afterward.

On the show, they got rid of the Night King first and left the fight for the Iron Throne as the last battle. In the books, most of us have thought that the fight for the Iron Throne would be first and the final battle would be against the Others. This still might very well be the case, especially because the magic and lore are much more important in the books than on the show, however, there’s now a possibility that the sequence of events on the show might still be a possibility.

Will Dany still die in the books? Most likely, yes, she will. It’s a pretty big thing to change from book to show, the death of an important character. Howe she dies might be completely different. I don’t know. I don’t really have a sense of it anymore.

In thinking about the failures of the show’s ending I have the impression that the show tried to shoehorn the book ending into the show, however, because so many things had changed they couldn’t successfully translate the book ending onto the show. So, we ended up with the mess we ended up with. I want to be wrong about this but I have a bad feeling in my stomach.

As for Jon killing Dany, I don’t know. I would like to think not but I just don’t know.

Maybe the show’s nihilistic approach is clouding my thoughts but I think GRRM’s definition of bittersweet and our definition of bittersweet is very different.

#daenerys targaryen #jon snow #jonerys #anti got #asoiaf #arya stark #bran stark #sansa stark #tyrion lannister #cersei lannister #jaime lannister

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thebluelemontree · 6 years ago

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Hi, this is lyastark (i changed blogs), you responded to my ask here: /post/175700394682/. i wanted to say that i loved your meta! i was thinking more of their relationship in the purpose of the story. for me, no one knowing about this interaction has to serve some plot purpose. b/c of this, i think that sandor is going to be the one to tell her about LF shitty behavior towards her. her relationship with him is the ONLY one that LF doesn't know about. we know he doesn't b/c he NEVER mentions (1)

sandor to sansa. he was quick to dismiss tyrion, loras, wilas, margaery, etc but he said nothing about sandor. i also believe that sansa has gotten to the point where there’s no one “new” she has met that she would 100% trust with something this big. sandor is someone she explicitly trusts not to lie to her, and is someone she associates with safety and her old life. he’s her hidden dagger, if you will

Hey, glad you liked it.

Yeah, I’m in agreement that Sandor will be crucial to Sansa reclaiming her identity in a few ways, and it will pay off that their relationship has flown under the radar for all this time. While Jeyne Poole is also an alternate possibility or an addition to that, I think Jeyne is on course to meet with (perhaps travel with) Arya first. It may take all of TWOW, maybe to the beginning to ADOS, for Arya and Sansa to reconnect. One thing I’m reasonably sure of is that things will start happening pretty quickly in TWOW for wrapping up Sansa’s training arc. With only two books left, it’s time to start moving all the remaining characters into the final act.

I’m just going to put the rest under the cut. This isn’t so much a coherent meta, but me just riffing because I have a lot of feelings about this topic XD

Littlefinger was only a mask he had to wear. Only sometimes Sansa found it hard to tell where the man ended and the mask began. Littlefinger and Lord Petyr looked so very much alike. She would have fled them both, perhaps, but there was nowhere for her to go. Winterfell was burned and desolate, Bran and Rickon dead and cold. Robb had been betrayed and murdered at the Twins, along with their lady mother. Tyrion had been put to death for killing Joffrey, and if she ever returned to King’s Landing the queen would have her head as well. The aunt she’d hoped would keep her safe had tried to murder her instead. Her uncle Edmure was a captive of the Freys, while her great-uncle the Blackfish was under siege at Riverrun. I have no place but here, Sansa thought miserably, and no true friend but Petyr. – Sansa I, AFFC.

“She would have fled them both…” if she had another option available to her. If she had another friend nearby, but in her mind, she doesn’t.

For Sansa’s training arc to end, her sense of isolation and dependence on Littlefinger have to be overpowered. It is a psychological obstacle as much as it is a physical one. Sansa has seen Littlefinger literally get away with murder and come out in a stronger position than he was before. He seems to always be a step ahead of his enemies. He has already bribed and extorted his way to power among the Vale lords. He’s iced Yohn Royce out of political influence. He’s planted seeds of doubt in Sansa toward Myranda Royce before she even met her. (On a side note, Myranda does know Sansa’s real identity, but has never confronted her about it and nor has she used that information against her). So LF’s locked down all the potential allies or troublemakers that he can see. But we know there are things he can’t see, like the possibility of Sansa winning Lothor Brune’s loyalty from him. Nor does he seem to be aware of Lyn Corbray’s seething resentment over being ousted as his brother’s heir thanks to Littlefinger’s marriage brokering. Not to mention he’s hired a bunch of hedge knights for his household guard not suspecting for a moment that they are there to steal Sansa from him. Littlefinger’s hubris has made him blind to things that are right in his own backyard.

While I’m 95% sure Sandor will be at the center of Sansa reclaiming her identity, I definitely don’t think he will be her only trusted ally or source of support before it’s over. That comes from Sansa herself in doing what she does best: being kind and empathetic to win people over. I see her cultivating her own little band of helpers to escape rather than (as some speculations suggest) Sansa simply name-dropping at the tourney and all the Vale lords instantly pledging their swords to her as their new regent/leader/whatever. That makes for a dramatic turn of events but is also pretty unrealistic as I see it. I think she will eventually be in a position to receive Yohn Royce’s military support, but I strongly disagree that it’s going to be as easy as name-dropping. Littlefinger has too much backing of his leadership right now. The Vale lords at the tourney are already on board that gravy train of gifts, gold, and glory. He has custody of Robert Arryn. No one really gives a shit about Lysa’s murder and everyone is looking toward the future with the more robust young falcon, Harrold Hardyng. IMO, Sansa needs to get with Yohn Royce before the rest of the Vale falls in line. He’s against the ropes right now (and being kept far from the tourney for a good reason I think), but he is the one that is most likely to wrest back political power from Littlefinger once Sansa is no longer his pawn. Then she would have powerful backing of her own. The trick is getting her to Yohn Royce and for that, she needs a persuasive reason and the confidence to flee from LF.

Where Sansa is in the story right now, I think she already possesses most of the individual puzzle pieces to what Littlefinger has done. She just hasn’t been able to bring herself to put all those pieces together into one complete, horrifying picture. There’s a lot of trauma and suppression of painful thoughts wrapped up in the things she’s seen and experienced. Things part of being Sansa Stark that will shatter the tenuous safety she finds in being Alayne Stone. She knows on one level that Littlefinger did something with Jeyne. She’s buried that memory and thinks about Jeyne only in more innocent times. She hasn’t dared to ask probably for fear of the answer and for fear of the repercussions from asking. And there’s the fact that she’s trapped with her abuser, who has muddled help and safety with exploitation and pushing her moral boundaries. She’s under a lot of pressure to marry HtH, which has been framed as her best and only chance to go home, even if it comes at Robert Arryn’s expense. All she has to do is let go of her empathy and see people as objects she can use to further her interests, and then she can not only feel safe but powerful and untouchable as well. No one will ever hurt her again. Littlefinger’s philosophy is terrifying, but there are parts of it that are very seductive to someone who has been made to feel powerless, stupid, and vulnerable. In a way, Sansa is being tempted with adopting a cynical worldview similar to what the Hound was for Sandor. Narratively speaking, what better person to bring her back from the edge of losing her humanity than by the person she inspired to reclaim his own? Sandor and Sansa have been saving each other all throughout their story. The first moment they met was defined by Sansa looking Ilyn Payne, the persona of death, in the face and falling backward into Sandor’s hands (ugh, my heart!). Many times he just seems to appear out of nowhere to catch her. So yeah, Sandor as a “hidden dagger” works really well not only for literally saving her life, but saving Sansa Stark’s identity and her core values. But that also comes with unpacking a lot of unpleasant things.

The missing piece of the puzzle and the one thing that will be the final straw should be learning that her father’s arrest and execution was orchestrated by Littlefinger. Sandor was a present for all that. He’s the best person to tell her, and yes, she would believe him. That forces Sansa to start looking at all puzzle pieces she has avoided putting together. Turning against LF will not just be a triumphant moment, but it’s probably going to be ugly and painful. Sansa has a lot of suppressed guilt and shame over what LF has made her complicit in. While she was never a willing participant and shifting responsibility on to her was a key feature of LF’s abuse strategy, Sansa has played a role to some degree in the cover-ups of LF’s crimes. Some people think the unkiss is a symptom of PTSD. Nope. This situation right here puts Sansa at risk for PTSD. It will be shattering to know she ever called Petyr a friend, trusted him, and sometimes helped him while he did awful things. There’s your dark night of the soul that a few people reasonably predict for each of our major POVs in TWOW, especially if an innocent like Robert Arryn dies (I’m 50/50 on that). She’ll need someone who can relate (think of Sandor’s dying anguished confessions of his sins), someone who won’t judge, and someone that can help guide her back to being Sansa Stark because right now, that identity comes with a lot of traumatic baggage. Just as being Sandor Clegane did. (UGH, MY HEART!)

I could go on about how similar both Petyr and Sandor’s backgrounds and origins are, how cynism plays into their world views, and the divergent paths they took. They don’t have to speak of each other or share a scene together, but they have always been opposing philosophical forces with Sansa between them. One embodying sweet lies and the other blunt honesty. But I think the most telling passage about these three is in Eddard VII:

Sansa said, "I knew the Hound would win."

Littlefinger overheard. "If you know who's going to win the second match, speak up now before Lord Renly plucks me clean," he called to her. Ned smiled.

Littlefinger bet against Sandor and lost. Daddy approved.

#ianxmickey #sansan meta #sansa stark #sandor clegane #littlefinger #petyr baelish #bluelemons speculates #twow speculation #sorta meta?#does emotional vomiting count as meta?

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gotgifsandmusings · 7 years ago

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GoT 7x01 Musings

My initial reaction to “Dragonstone”

Jess summed it up best in her review when she said there was nothing overly offensive, or interesting, or really...anything. I couldn’t find a ton of ironic enjoyment, because this whole episode was just...beige. Unlike Cheryl’s map. That was damn vibrant.

Arya Todd and...William Sherman

I’ve given up on being pissy about the way faceless man mask magic works. Of course she created it off-screen. Of course she could wear it with a puffy coat and stand on a box and change her voice and becoming convincingly Walder Filch

Do the FM give a shit that she’s running around with their methodology to personal vendettas? Will this catch up with her?

Apparently ALL THE FREYS are in this room, and female Freys are incapable of perpetuating a House. That makes a lot of sense.

Like. What are we supposed to make of this? Are we supposed to be happy? Is this supposed to be poetic justice? It was just so out of place for “oh and then this shock happens” that we have to accept off-screen poison making and implementation (guess she still has control of the kitchens), and frankly separated from the moment where this would have had any impact anyway--her murdering Walder in the first place.

To make matters worse, she THEN stumbles into nice Lannister men, making her rethink her broad-brushing (just like Jonny didn’t want to!), so....does she take back her Smirk of Empowerment? Are we supposed to view this as a negative now? Why show us the “parallels” of Cat and Walder’s death in the “previously on’s” then? I’m just so confused, and once again it’s obvious the show has no idea about it’s own messaging.

We’re glad Maisie Williams got to meet her favorite artist. That was the point of that scene. Gr8 writing. Glad “Hands of Gold” was just shoved in, because it’s not like that context had mattered or that it was foreshadowing anything, or written on the spot about Tyrion and Shae...

Anonymous said to gotgifsandmusings: For what it's worth, I had no idea who Ed Sheeran was until people started complaining about his scene, and if you've never heard of him and don't recognize his face, it really doesn't come off as mugging any more than any of D&D's other "let's cut in a close-up reaction shot!" shtick. I think people (not you, but people) are getting too hung up on this to notice the real awfulness of the first episode, like literally everything about Euron.

I think you can walk and chew gum. If you know it’s obvious and cringe-inducing.

Bran and Gloveless Meera

The Army of the Dead looked kinda cool, but I still think of Pirates of the Caribbean

Did this scene need to exist? It wasn’t bad, or anything really, but they’re quite obviously not wildlings, and I fail to think we would have been lost had we jumped to them already inside Castle Black. Hell, one line of establishing dialogue would have taken care of it.

Sam hunts for Nicholas Flamel

Poor Sam finds himself both in a sitcom and Harry Potter. What the fuck was that montage? Why is this novice training?

The Archmaester Slughorn scene was just for some bad Maester exposition from what I could tell. Are we meant to believe Sam wasn’t asking for assistance before this point? Also this whole thing really highlighted how dumb it was to send Sam here when the army was literally approaching and had just res’d the entirety of Hardhome

Why did the maesters put books about Dragonstone and the Long Winter in the restricted section? Did they know it was dramatically important to the plot?

Okay, correct me if I’m wrong, but the plotline as we know it is: Stannis tells Sam that there’s dragonglass at Dragonstone. Sam forgets about this and goes to the Citadel. Sam gets reminded by turning to a random page in a random book that there’s dragonglass at Dragonstone.

Amazing Shrinking Baby grew!

GREYSCALE JORAH! Omg that was fucking hilarious. Stop trying to touch the novices, dude

Can’t wait for next week:

expecto pa-groan-um!

Sandor Specs Destro

@saintjustitude said to gotgifsandmusings: The preview bringing back that peasant father and daughter just to remind the viewers who they are when we see that they are soooo dead seems like another example of their narrative sadism and acedia phenomenon. Except now they do it with previews of scenes long forgotten from past seasons. (Unless they've already done it before and I missed it somehow.) -_-

I mean, it’s not out of that pattern, but I think the intent was to instill some meaning in Sandor’s arc? He’s like...coming to face his past demons. And rejecting his formerly nihilistic attitude? Except all we saw was him embracing this last season, so...

Also those skeletons looked ancient.

I guess it’s nice that there was actual character growth? If that’s what you call it? He just kind of suddenly had these fire-seeing powers.

Is it because he almost died? Do other people with near death experiences have these powers? Has he always had this and he just never looked at fire?

Boy oh boy those signs in the fire were beyond detailed for someone who’s never done this before

Where was any of this seeded? Like, was it when he asserted the complete opposite views about faith and how to navigate the world?

They kept trying to tell us it was poetic because it’s “fire based”, but it felt like such a random moment it’s hard to connect it to anything at all. Why did he go on a rampage with the Shire? What was any of that?

Cheryl’s Cartography and Coalition Building

No one questioned the logic of the floor map. Why floor map? How does this help plan troop movement?

Anonymous said to gotgifsandmusings: to be fair we don't know what kind of paint was being used for the map (there are ingredients you can add to paint to make it dry quicker) and we're in King's Landing which is pretty warm - even during winter.

DUDE JUST LET ME HAVE THIS

So Cheryl talks about how everyone is an enemy, including Olenna who is a “traitor” (what? She teamed up with you before your dumbass brother forgot basics of military strategy). Is there a reason she decided to provoke the North by sending that letter? Doesn’t she have other things to deal with, apparently?

They talk about Tyrell bannermen which is a good fucking point, since the Lord Paramount of the Reach kind of blew up. But then…why would they have any chance of getting them to follow them?

Cheryl wants to build a dynasty, Larry points out that they have no heirs, and then Cheryl says “a dynasty for us, then.” That’s not…what a dynasty…ah forget it

She says Tommen betrayed her, and it’s presented as her refusing to process grief. This is actually fine, tbh?

My main issue is that this situation is completely unsurvivable for the Lannisters. Even with an Ironboor alliance, they don’t have the resources, have no sizable allies, especially for land-based warfare (oh ALL THE FREYS are dead and I guess there aren’t other River Lords), and have pissed everyone off, which by all rights should include smallfolk. The idea that there aren’t riots every day is stupid, and there’s really no tension here since they’ll clearly get smushed like a bug. Unless...

That’s right, Euron the new Villain Sue! His fleet is already massive because that’s how many trees they have on the Iron Islands.

And...okay, we’re told Euron is going to be “worse than Ramsay” this year but he comes in with his stupid eyeliner, leather diesel jacket, and new Johnny Depp-esque persona, with the first words out of his mouth being a long whining speech about how mean his niece and nephew were to him. It’s like some drunk pathetic rock star wandered onto the set and was sad he got snubbed for a Grammy. We’re supposed to take this moron seriously?

Also, Cheryl INVITED HIM. She even told us this marriage proposal was coming. Why would she reject his offer? Did she know that he was going to double down on his attempts to win her, even when he has a history of unpredictability, and oh yeah...he could just sit happily as king of the Iron Islands without getting involved with this idiocy?

Boy it would be shocking if his magically materializing fleet secured major military victories. Shocking.

Was Larry given Jorah’s accomplishments from the Greyjoy rebellions?

Winterhell

I’ve had it up to here with Lyanna Mormont’s Feminist Speeches (which demonstrate a complete lack of political and military awareness). OMG all the women will fight! (What a rare trait for Bear Island.) They won’t just be sewing, a complete societal necessity. Yahhhs slayyy empowermentttt!

This could have had a lot more poignance on Jonny’s part too, if we had seen any female Wildling fighters past Ygritte and Smurfette. Like if they had given a Night’s Watch Castle to spearwives, for instance. The Wildlings have all been dudes for a full season at this point, and Jonny’s idea seems to come out of basically nowhere.

How many Wildlings are still alive at this point? Or anyone for that matter? Before the Vale Lords swooped over the battlefield like the army of the dead, there looked to be about a few hundred left in Jonny’s army?

I love how easily this room is won over by whoever speaks. Royce idiotically wanted to tear down castles (was he worried the Army of the Dead might take them and set up reinforcements?), and Sansa is like “no that’s dumb. We should obviously give them to people who helped us” to uproarious applause.

Then Jon just gets really pissy, mostly because she spoke, and decides the hill he’s going to die on is letting castles stay in the hands of the family they’ve been in historically, even though that also means asking a 10-year old to be commanding what’s left of his bannermen at these strongholds of strategic necessity. And the room agrees.

It’s a good message I guess? Though does that mean we’re supposed to look back on Arya’s slaying as a bad thing? When the music was empowering? And it was framed as coming from such a petty place on Jon’s part that I’m just not sure what to make of it at all.

Anonymous said to gotgifsandmusings: Sansa: Ned died because he made stupid mistakes. Sansa, a minute later: Cersei kills her enemies no matter what. Sooo... which one is it?

Whichever makes creative sense, of course.

Oh and Sansa admires Cheryl. I wonder if she might betray Jonny?? It’s so mysterious. And glad they’re having the same arguments over and over.

If Ayra picks Jonny over Sansa in this tiff because Jonny is so much more smarterer and badass (the show seems to think so), I’m going to flip something.

Then we cut to Brienne punching Pod in the face to impress Tormund? I honestly have no clue. I’m sure it was really funny to someone.

I actually did like Sansa telling off Littlefinger, even if the dialogue was clearly written in 2017, but it also begs the question: why doesn’t she tell the Vale Lords the truth about him selling her to the Boltons or murdering Lysa so she can be rid of him? Brienne digs it.

Deadpan touches sand

I can’t help but feel this segment would have been more emotionally poignant at the end of a season than the first we see of her. We already saw her sailing West an new this was coming. All this consisted of was us marveling at the set design, while trying to get back into “oh yeah this is what it means to Deadpan” mode. For some people, they just watch this show the 10 hours it’s on and don’t think about it for a year, you know?

I guess it was fine? “Shall we begin” is kind of hilarious since I’d have to assume they were planning something on the ride over, but whatever.

And yeah, totally unmanned castle. Way2Go Stannis. I think it’s hard to believe no one attempted looting it (they’d need a boat but people are like starving and junk), or that there was just NO ONE THERE. The doors were nice and unlocked, at least. Drama.

Top 3 Nitpicks:

Sewing is not necessary during war

The Maesters locked up the books of plot-based knowledge

Euron’s GIANT fleet

#episode musings #dragonstone #got 7x01 #antigot

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pseftisincertus · 5 years ago

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What if?

First of, this post is 5 months late. Everything has been said and done, everyone might have moved on, the petitions signed, the criticisms raised and awards given but honestly, I’ve been following this series for 3 years, can anyone blame me if I am having a hard time moving on? The anger has already subsided but then it comes back full force if I see anything remotely related to GOT. All the lost potential gone in 6 episodes so I offer my own ending (This is how I’ll remember it as, because I will never give up on it)

I’ve never read the books but I do know a few things (reddit helped with that) so just a few things that I would be fixing:

Obviously, how the Long Night ended

Bran’s arc all in all (I fell in love with the theory B=NK so expect that here)

Azor Ahai

How Dany went down

How Cersei died (her prophecy)

Jaime (Listen, if Jaime stayed with Brienne, he is redeemed yes, but he will forever go down in history as the oathbreaker so I like the idea he returned to Cersei to redeem himself, not because he loves her but because he want to prove he does keep his oath)

Also, I’m not going into detail how each episode will turn out and how dramatically shown, just covering the main points.

Dany and Jon’s arrival in Winterfell: Its the same as ep01, they are greeted by Sansa, Arya and Jon reunites, Bran warns them that the Army of the dead is on the march. Jaime arrives in Winterfell (and does the nasty with Brienne, earlier than expected). At this point, Bran is already in the pressure of trying to salvage the future (because he knows how it all ends) He knows that the combined army of Dany and the North is not enough to defeat the NK (he also knows Cersei has no plans to help) so he does what he can, he goes back to the past thinking he could alter the present (but obvs can’t because “the ink is dry”). He also explains to them what NK wants, to reset history, to erase the memories of mankind, him, to allow the white walkers and wights a place to fully inhabit.

Bran: Goes back to the past

(1st attempt) He tried to warn Aerys about the impending doom, but instead cause him to go mad thus the ‘Burn them all’ scene, Meera found out about it and warned him not to interfere with the past but Bran does not listen, she left but before she does, she warns Sansa vaguely to watch over her brother (Sansa takes the caution seriously).*This happens before the army arrives in winterfell*

(2nd attempt) Bran tried again, thinking maybe he needed to go further, he went back to the time of Bran the Builder, trying to find out how the early gen defeated the army of the dead, he instead helped make the wall. This attempt obvs failed again because the NK had destroyed the wall in the present. *This happens before the war in Winterfell and after the war council*

(3) All else fails, he decided to go to the root of it all, to the creation of the NK, which surprise, he fails to stop as well. At this point he realizes the ink is dry and the future is already guaranteed. *This happens during the war in Winterfell, in which he awakes in all the chaos. Anyway, more on that later*

Jon’s parentage: So, all parties are preparing for combat, same strategy, same bobby traps. The truth about Jon is revealed by Sam (the revelation happens the same way, after Dany revealed she killed both Sam’s father and brother). They both tried to keep it hush hush for now, until Jon sorts out what to do with the info which sadly, didn’t happen because Varys found out about it (because he is Varys), he shared the info with Tyrion, they go fact checking and when they were sure they intended to deliver the news to Dany, (Varys believe that the North intends to keep this info to use against Dany bcoz the North doesn’t like her but Tyrion thinks Jon would not betray Dany) She was in her room, sad because Jon has been cold to her recently and she still mourns the ‘death of her Viserion’ (I think she never properly mourned for that)

Varys: My Queen, someone intends to betray you

Dany: (remembers the prophecy in the House of the Undying) Three treasons will you know. Once for blood (the witch), once for gold (Jorah, at this point his also in the room, ashamed), and once for love. (Dany starts to doubt Jon)

but before it was revealed, the horn for the impending war signals the enemies arrival so the convo was cut short.

Battle of Winterfell: So the battle still ensues as planned, despite all the risen issues. Melisandre sneaked into the camp (lets erase her magical entrance shall we? its pretty much nonsense) Let’s just say she sneaked in someway because she said so herself “I will die in a foreign land”. So the army of the dead march on, the Dothraki stays in place and they clash in the battle field. So Melisandre has tried to light up the trenches but still they are overpowered and so Winterfell is invaded. At this point, the NK is present and has an all out war with Dany/Drogon Jon/Rhaegal. So we get our first casualties: Edd, Sam (yes, its not a real battle if casualties are not heavy loses), Davos (saving the small girl in the crypt), Jorah (in the same fashion as he did), Lyanna (in the same badass way ofc). The invasion of the crypts happen, which brings casualties as well: Gilly, baby Sam, Missandei (I didn’t want her dying in chains okay?).

The Aerial battle of the three dragons ensues, as I said earlier, Dany/Drogo and Jon/Rhaegal went for an all out war against the NK it was an intense battle, the NK targeted Jon and Rhaegal specifically which left the dragon badly wounded, Jon is unseated and fell out of the sky, falling on Winterfell. Dany was about to follow but NK attacked Drogo which draws Dany back to him and this cause her to attack, by this time, the NK fell on Winterfell. Dany flew down to check on Jon and Rhaegal, the dragon is shown heavily wounded and Jon was nowhere to be seen. NK arrives here and Drogo flew down and blow fire on him, after revealing that NK can’t be burned this is when he raised his arms so the dead wights returned to attack Drogo which causes the dragon to fly away unseating Dany, We see Rhaegal being surrounded and mounted by wights, Dany watches in horror until she hears the NK walking towards her, she is trapped both sides and she sees Jon sneaking up behind the NK, and NK effectively shields his attack, by this time, Rhaegal senses his mother is in danger blows fire on the NK in effort to save his mama. Dany (not yet knowing about Jon’s parentage screams in horror as she believes Jon as dead) her sound attracted wights which starts to run towards her, she fell on the ground where wights attack her and Jorah comes to the rescue and everything else follows. Dany and Jorah runs to safety and the dragon queen desperately looks back for any sign of Jon all she saw was the NK was gone and Rhaegal flew away, too far to notice if someone was riding him. This is the part where NK and Jon arises from the flames unharmed (maybe half naked idk, but some resemblance of damage same with Dany) they then went on an all out sword fight, NK obvs using the wights to escape Jon and runs towards Viserion to fly away, he successfully did and Jon was left with too many enemies and this is where Beric arrives to help him. They fight and Beric sacrifices himself so that Jon can reach Rhaegal to fly and find the NK.

At this point Arya has a certain White Walker eager to kill her (like NK’s second in command) the library sequence still plays out and the hound saves her, they meet Melisandre and she reminds Arya of her prophecy, (green eyes, brown eyes and blue eyes). Arya and Melisandre knew that the battle is lost and that there is only one way to end it, burn Winterfell to the ground because at this point, the white walkers were all over the place. Arya, the hound and Melisandre set out a plan. Arya took Beric’s face (found sometime in the battlefield, this is out the castle already, she and the hound gave their respects to the man) to lose the White Walker after her. The hound and Arya tried to evacuate the people.

The White walkers were looking for Bran who is near the heart tree, currently in the past. Sansa, at this point is running for survival, Tyrion at her side, she runs to her brother and Theon is there protecting Bran (He saved her sister Yara and returned to Winterfell to fight for the Starks) but the wights were outnumbering them and Theon was at the disadvantage when a wight was about to kill Sansa, Jaime and Brienne comes to the rescue. All three of the knights are protecting three civilians. Ultimately, Arya catch up to them. Melisandre gave the signal and started to burn Winterfell and all the wights, white walkers and herself in it. Sansa cries in horror seeing her home burned to the ground, Arya holds her back. Bran looks into the flames in Winterfell as they are running away, he sees White Walkers looking at him.

Battle’s Aftermath: So everyone at this point has evacuated to the Riverlands, to the Tullys. Dany and Sansa being the leaders left went to check for the casualties. Dany lost almost 50% of her forces, she also learned of the death of Missandei and ofc Jorah (who protected her ‘till his last breath). This came as a huge shock to her especially that her dragon Rhaegal (badly wounded) is nowhere to be seen and is assumed to have died. Tyrion sent scouts to see the damage of Winterfell and there was nothing but ruins and fragments of wights, they assume this means victory but they have been beaten and they have nowhere to run. Sansa sent word to the Vale for reinforcements, a place for shelter but she does not get a reply, Dany does the same to the Greyjoys and no reply which infuriates her more. She turns her rage to Tyrion who promised her his sister’s forces but did not show up, her mistrust on her advisers intensifies and Jon being lost in the scene adds fuel to her rage. Tyrion, out of options sends his brother Jaime to send a message to Cersei (because they have no one else to contact in westeros, everyone else is either not available or in war with them and he is very much aware that they are in dire need of help. Also, Jaime and Brienne have a moment where he tells her he needs to leave, that things would have been completely different if he decided to be a good man from the start. Brienne in tears lets him go saying, “Go to your Queen and this time, keep your oath.) Tyrion tries to send word to her sister to open the gates of King’s Landing for the battleworn men who protected the Kingdom, Qyburn welcomes Jaime and receives the message and passes it on Cersei and the Queen celebrates on her victory having cornered the Targaryen queen. She sends back an ultimatum, she will open the gates for these people if the Dragon Queen comes to King’s Landing and bends the knee. Jaime is infuriated with this decision trying to reason with her but Cersei tries to persevere. Dany was enrage upon knowing Tyrion sent a message without her consent and as well as the demand of the Queen. Varys, seeing the outcome knows that Dany will give up on any peaceful resolution and decided to spread the news of Jon’s parentage to turn the tides on Dany, thinking this will allow the young queen to retreat back to Essos and save the people of King’s Landing in her fury. Dany calls on the remaining troops intent to attack KL but Sansa refuse to let her men join her conquest, Dany demands why and Sansa refutes that they have lost enough blood and their very home, her people deserves rest and she denies her of the North’s support on her claim to the throne, she informs her of Jon’s lineage and that the North supports Jon’s claim. Dany was heartbroken and mad upon knowing this (she later revisits her last memory of Rhaegal flying off, entertaining the idea that Jon did not burn because of his Tragaryen lineage) Later, Greyworm informs her that it was Varys who spread the word. Tyrion tries to calm her saying that they can still rally the North to their side because Jon could be dead (making her claim strong again), this struck a cord on Dany because if Jon had been dead then that means her son Rhaegal is as well. She orders Greyworm to send word to Daario Naharis to rally her troops in Essos and attack KL from behind (on the side facing the waters where Euron Greyjoys fleet maybe waiting). She reenergizes her remaining forces and the Tullys (who reclaimed the Riverlands from the Freys after Arya’s massacre) agreed to send them off with whatever they need but will not take part in the fight in KL, Dany honors this word and moved her forces near KL where they will regroup but she threatens Sansa that as soon as she has her throne, she will not give mercy to anyone who questions her claim, she says this to the remaining troops while torching Varys alive. (The Hound and Arya sneaks out from camp and joins the Targaryen army to the KL, Arya leaves Sansa and Bran to Theon and Brienne’s care)

Jon: So Jon? Jon and Rhaegal fell on the land beyond the wall when they lost sight of the NK. Jon assessed the damage on Rhaegal and on himself, pondering on the idea of his parentage, the dragon is heavily wounded. Then, later when he was trying to keep himself warm, he saw a certain cave filled with roots. The door was covered by a skeleton that seem to belong from a very large man (Hodor), he entered the place and that’s when he saw remains of the children of the forest. He held onto the roots and he was able to see what Bran has been seeing with his crows, the attack on Winterfell was simply a diversion. After the burning of Winterfell, the people was too complacent that they have won, NK took this as an opportunity to send some wights on the borders of the Vale thru Viserion. The Vale being unprepared from the attack was defeated and that is why there was no reply to Sansa, the Vale has been swarming with Wights, ice covered the land. Jon woke up from the vision, alarmed, he should warn the others. He went back to Rhaegal surrounded by black crows, Rhaegal’s eyes turned white (similar way if Bran wargs into something) and the dragon begins to flap its wings.(Basically what the three eyed raven told Bran “You will never walk again but you will fly) Jon rides Rhaegal again heading to the Riverlands. Consequently, Bran (before warging to Rhaegal) warns his sister to hide, in here we see everyone visibly cold (signifying the wights are getting near again but they don’t know that). Theon offers to leave but Sansa refuses saying she belongs with her people, she orders Theon to take Bran where he needs to be and the Greyjoy promise to guard him with his life. Theon and Bran leaves and Bran says goodbye to her sister, she smiles sadly and as soon as Theon and Bran had left miles away. Chaos can be heard from the Tully castles, the last thing we see is Sansa looking back at the door and Brienne preparing her sword to fight. Here we see Gendry, Tormund, Podrick fighting but soon the white walkers.

KL attack: Dany receives news from Essos that Daario and company already head out to KL for reinforcements and are expected to arrive soon. Tyrion is sent out of camp to fend for himself and pleads for Dany to think about the people of KL but she refuses. Her armies are already infront of KL and she rides Drogo into the sunlight. The golden company aides Cersei and then an all out fight. Euron aides the fleet and later attacked by Daario’s group, Euron is killed by Daario. Bronn is also in the battlefield manning the scorpion, he tries to hit drogo but fails, later, Dany burns him alive with a number of Lannister armies, this also effectively opens the gates to her army, meeting with troops from Essos, KL is massacred, Cersei seeing this intends to escape with Jaime, Qyburn and the mountain escorts her and this is where the Hound meet the Mountain, the same as the episode, the mountian kills Qyburn and Cleganebowl ensues, it also ends the same way, with both brothers dying. Dany targets the castle and intends to burn Cersei alive (she DOES NOT go burning KL, just the castle where Cersei is because of her hatred towards her but doesn’t stop innocent people still killed.) Cersei tries to escape the falling boulders but she suddenly feels her stomach in great pain, Jaime stops to see to her and blood was dripping from her legs. Jaime tries to carry her out to safety while boulders fall to them. Cersei pleads him to get her to safety and that she is his queen, Jaime tells her harshly that it was the only reason he was there, because he swore an oath. Cersei bleeds out from the failed pregnancy and all we saw was the castle crumbling.

The Beginning of the End: Dany looks around and see her armies overwhelming the Lannister army. Her heart feels heavy with all the destruction but she steels herself for it is necessary to reclaim her home. She looks at the Red Keep, she sees the people below in panic and running, she feels destruction around her and she begins to doubt her route of action until she hears a familiar growl, she looks toward the gates of KL and sees Viserion heading towards them. Viserion breathes ice fire on KL, annihilating the armies below including Greyworm. Dany urges Drogo to fight back and the two dragons fight. We see shots below of knights and people alike, fighting wights but being overpowered, the ground freezes and the air becomes cold. Slowly, the castles and roads are covered in ice. Wights and White walkers continue to enter the city. We come back to Jon who is desperately looking for where his family is, he flies over to Winterfell and saw the place burned down to the ground, just remnants of wights and people alike, they continue to fly towards the Riverlands believing that the people might have evacuated, an ongoing fight was there, he swooped down to help but Bran/Rhaegal refuses, he forces the dragon attempting to jump down but the dragon relents, swooping down with fire, he is rejoined by Tormund in the battle. They talk briefly, Tormund tells him that he knows how to end the war and that he will hold the fort here. Jon asks him to find his sisters and protect them Tormund promises and forces Jon back to Rhaegal’s back. Tormund is seen shortly to rejoin with Brienne, Podrick and Sansa with a sword fighting back the wights.

Final Battle: Dany and NK continues the midair fight, toppling over castles and building killing civilians and wights alike. Drogo is heavily wounded and so is Viserion. Dany keeps on fighting until the NK somehow sensed something and retreated back. We see a horse galloping its way to KL with Theon on the back and a carriage carrying a Bran who is currently warging Rhaegal. The horses crashes and toppling over with Theon, the Greyjoy stands up, picks his sword and continues fighting the slowly swarming wights and white walkers. It did not help his case because the NK is now flying over them. He dismounts Viserion and Viserions flies back to fight Drogo on his heels. NK slowly approaches the Theon who is fighting valiantly but is stabbed repeatedly but keeps on standing up. During this moment we see Rhaegal flying on top speed to reach KL as soon, as he does, Bran opens his eyes and Rhaegal loses balance and Jon falls with him. Rhaegal’s body lands on the wights attacking a poor Theon and they are squashed. At this point, Bran takes a breather and he sees Theon look back at him despite all his accumulated wounds, he tells him “You’re a good man Theon” and Theon smiles and grabs his sword one last time and turns to fight only the NK to stabs him in the stomach. Bran looks at the NK and slowly approaching the three eyed raven and when he was about to touch him, Jon jumps to intercept him. They have an all out fight from here. Dany at this point has dismounted Drogo as her only son is already severley injured, consequently they landed on the open rooftop where the Iron Throne is. She sees Viserion flying far away and she gets a real chance to look around the destruction that was made all because they never listened to the real threat. She looks at the Iron throne she thinks long and hard if all of this was worth sitting on it. She is injured and she limps towards it. She can hear wights and a few survivors fighting, she walks towards it and a white walker sees her, its slowly approaches her as she limps towards the throne and she fights back as best as she can but was defeated and was stabbed on the back reaching out for the iron throne. Drogo burns the White walker in retaliation. So the battle ensues, Drogo mourns for his mother. NK summons Viserion back and he rides towards him. Jon not giving up pursues him by heading on top of the castle for Drogo to ride on (at this point he is owning his Targaryen heritage). He reaches the top and hears Drogo’s sad mourning and sees Daenerys on the floor reaching out for the throne. He runs towards her and is suprised when suddenly she stands up with blue eyes ready to attack him, Jon with all his emotion killed her again and lays her body sitting on the throne. Drogo roars as Viserion flies behind Jon and burns him. Arya (surprise she is still alive and still gets her moment) climbs onto Viserion and topples the NK over. She screams for Jon who she thought is burned for good. Now we will see an epic reveal that TADA! Jon is not burned and further cements the idea he is a Targaryen and this also, suprises him. (I know, its Viserion’s flame but just because its blue, doesn’t mean its not natural fire, its still fire just blue. Also, I know the clothes get burn too but imagine Jon fighting naked? not that epic so maybe only his upper garments or half of his upper clothes? Just enough to show he doesn’t burn) So the fight ensues only Arya is added to the mix. Drogo goes for one last stand, like Arya + Drogo defeats Viserion, like beast vs beast battle while Arya stabs everywhere she could reach and also wards the other white walkers in the place. (I just wanted a chance for Jon to see how Arya is good in combat also, a scene where Jon forces/pleads Arya to leave and save herself but in Arya fashion doesn’t like to) So in the end, Viserion dies falling and Drogo roars (like Kingkong vs the t-rex hehe). Arya goes to help Jon only to be surrounded by Wights and white walkers alike. She fights valiantly and sadly, dies. This was Jon’s final motivation to fully defeat the NK, so intense music and suspense, they fight one on one and Drogo helps, breathing fire and burns the throne in the process. (So in Thanos vs Ironman fashion) Jon crawls to his sword and NK walks towards him impaling his leg, NK about to deliver his final blow when Jon reached his sword on time and finally ending the Long Night. One by one the wights and white walkers vanishes.

Conclusion: Drogo takes his mother and flies away, Jon looks at the bright sky and Bran looks at the plant on his side, a dewdrop falls ending winter and spring arrives. Tyrion (miraculously survives and arrived in KL, to find his brother and sister buried beneath the rocks, he mourned for them) they were all gathered for the decision making. At this point, Tyrion is asked by Bran to go to the meeting, Tyrion ask what does he represent and Bran answers “Lannisport needs its new Lord”, Tyrion teary eyed comes to the meeting. (Gendry and Ribin Arryn died btw), They reached a decision, Bran the Broken as the King of the six kingdoms. Before the final montage, Bran asks Jon if he wants to be hand of the king (Yes, Tyrion is better off as the Lord of the Lannisport than Hand, he gets what his father would never give him) Jon refuses and Bran gives him an omnimous response that Jon knows where he will go.Then final montage, Bran as King with Brienne and Podrick as Kingsguard (replacing Arya, sorry), Sansa as Queen and Jon back to the Wall leading the widlings back to their home honoring his direwolf and Tormund (who died).

#game of thrones #season 8 #game of thrones alternative ending #game of thrones rewrite

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i-just-like-commenting · 8 years ago

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Yes, the books were adaptable, part 4: What about season 6?

That brings us, of course, to the question of what season 6 would look like if we’d actually followed the books. A lot of viewers consider season 6 to be “the best so far,” and while I agree there were a lot of well-designed action scenes and setpieces and it was often fun to watch, it also didn’t make a lot of sense when you think too much about it, and almost all the good parts were jammed into the last few episodes. A more book-faithful season 6 could potentially have all of the positives of season 6, plus be more logically coherent and better paced.

While there are a few short-term things I can predict based on storytelling logic and preview chapters, at this point the showrunners will have to actually listen to Martin and follow an (abridged for TV) outline of the story. Spoilers for some of The Winds of Winter preview chapters, much speculation, and me giving up on caring about episode titles below the jump:

Episode 1: The Two Battles

After ending on a lot of cliffhangers, we open with a BANG! as the Battle of Meereen and the Battle of Winterfell happen right away. It’s the Battle of the Bastards x 2, an hour long episode most likely; a lot of characters die, including, I would guess, the Boltons and Barristan Selmy. But it ends with Stannis and the northern lords winning in the North and Victarion’s dragon-taming horn saving the day in Meereen – and if the hints that Tyrion is going to wind up riding that dragon are true, well, what an end to the first episode!

Episode 2: Using Up the Remaining Chapters

In the second episode we touch base with where everyone else is.

Oldtown: this episode opens with Jaqen infiltrating the Citadel by stealing a young maester’s face. Sam and Gilly sail past Euron’s ship and barely escape, wondering why he’s here. Sam leaves Gilly at an inn and goes to the Citadel. Right after a Dorne scene, Alleras/Sarella rescues Sam from bureaucracy and takes him to Marwyn, who tells him to hide what he knows about magic and dragons. Reveal that the maesters killed off the dragons the first time around. (Then cut to Dany scenes below)

Dorne: Arianne, Tyene, and Nym meet with Doran, and he sends them off to investigate Griff, infiltrate the Faith, and escort an injured Myrcella back to King’s Landing respectively.

Kings Landing: Cersei is recovering from her walk of shame and plotting with Qyburn. Kevan is growing tired of Mace Tyrell and Tarly. He delivers Cersei the news that Jaime has vanished into the Riverlands and she refuses to believe it because in spite of their arguments he’s still her brother, he’d come for her. Kevan goes back to his room and gets murdered by Varys to destabilize the city for Griff’s invasion.

Riverlands: Jaime is off in the Riverlands. Because of where the book ends I don’t know if Jaime is walking into this blind or can tell that Brienne’s lying (she’s a terrible liar) and is still going anyway. Regardless, this is probably them at least on their way to confronting Lady Stoneheart

The Vale: Harry is aghast that his family wants him to marry a bastard, but Sansa dances and flirts with Harry and wins his interest.

The Wall: Less clear what will be happening here, but I’m guessing chaos as Jon is dead and the Watch and the wildlings will be fighting. We should have lots of shots of Ghost, some seemingly from the wolf’s perspective, and maybe Melisandre will be the first to figure out that Jon’s inside Ghost.

The Dothraki Sea: final shot of the episode is Dany riding her dragon over a khalasar as they head towards Vaes Dothrak.

Episode 3-10: I’m Not Sure

Meereen: My guess is the Westerosi probably decide to appoint a local ruler in Meereen (Missandei or Grey Worm?) and head off to Westeros to join Griff and Euron.

Winterfell: Stannis, I think, is going to have trouble holding the North because of his rigid ideas, and yes, Shireen will get burned by somebody as an act of desperation, maybe related to her greyscale.

The Wall: Melisandre brings Jon back and…I don’t know what happens next? Seriously, I really don’t, but given that he has a wight on ice in the books the show may be correct about him trying to use that to prove the threat beyond the Wall (Tormund could have brought it back from Hardhome in my version of last season). Regardless, his coming back from the dead is going to be a much Bigger Deal here.

Kings Landing: I don’t know whether Cersei’s trial with Frankengregor will still take place, but probably. Loras will recover from his injuries, there’s too many hints in the books that he isn’t actually dying, but why hide this from Cersei? Whatever, things will go badly in the capital, but a lot is still up in the air. I do hope the sept still goes boom. Cersei’s been compared to Aerys too many times and she already used wildfire to burn the tower of the Hand; I think that may be one of those plot points from the book that wound up in the show in a completely different context.

Dothraki Sea: I’m fairly confident that Dany will ride dragonback with a horde behind her to Vaes Dothrak, be named Stallion who Mounts the World by the Dosh Khaleen, and then head…back to Meereen? Straight to Volantis? I’ve seen theories and arguments for both, and I lean towards the latter. Cut off the demand rather than the supply for slaves.

Beyond the Wall: Bran is presumably going to continue his training, learning secrets about the real origin of the White Walkers – the explanation in the show does not mesh with what we know from the books, and my guess is they really are the Great Other, the power of cold and darkness. Bran will learn Jon’s identity as part of finding out he’s Azor Ahai or the Prince Promised before trying to contact him to help him. We’ll see the real context of “hold the door” and hopefully have Bran finally realize how much skinchanging hurt Hodor and feel guilty. He’ll also stay in contact with Theon throughout the season.

Oldtown: The show can even get out in front of the books in progressiveness by having Alleras/Sarella be a trans man rather than a girl disguised as a boy (it’s open to interpretation so far). Euron will use magic learned in Valyria to attack the city, steal the horn, and bring down the Wall, as we see him communicating with the Night King and being promised power, immortality, etc.

Everything Else: I have no idea about the plots of Sansa, Arya, Sandor, Brienne, Jaime, the Brotherhood, Rickon, and Davos from this point on. Your guess as to what happens is as good as mine. Ask Martin.

What this means is that instead of a season that wastes too much time dragging out the arcs with the Boltons and Meereen, and brings back plots they should have used in seasons 4 and 5 (Iron Islands and the Riverlands), we get a much further advancement in the story. And the big shocker ending will likely be Dany arriving on Dragonstone as the Wall falls and the Others swarm into Westeros.

Now that’s a season worthy of an Emmy.

#asoiaf meta #a song of ice and fire #game of thrones #the books were adaptable #theories

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the-king-andthe-lionheart · 4 years ago

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I think Arya is fully intentioned on going North and porting at either White Harbor or Eastwatch when she learns about Jon’s death, in fact I think it’s likely she’ll travel back to Westeros with Jeyne Poole, Justin Massey, and Alysanne Mormont. And of course they will want to go North too. However I think winter storms are going to prevent them from sailing to either port which is why I think they will have to dock at either Gulltown (unlikely considering the terrain on leaving the Vale so the best bet is porting somewhere else) or Saltpans or Maidenpool. I mean considering how the weather in the north has just gotten worse and worse and it was only just winter now, I just think no one is getting very far north and that the people in the north will eventually have to flee south. I just can’t see the weather getting any better and that is going to be a hindrance.

I just think that Arya’s best place going forward is to end back up in the Riverlands before the north. Not only would she have a possible army of sellswords at her back doing nothing, but as a Stark, if she reclaims her name and lets it be known, she could reunite the Riverlands with the help of the BWB. Remember there are still a lot of people in hiding in the Riverlands that were on Robb’s side that would probably come out of hiding for a Stark. I do think LSH will crown Arya, which will help in rallying people, but Arya will put aside the crown when she realizes her brothers are alive.

Now I love Jon and his relationship with Arya but I think the narrative is going to keep pushing Arya away from the north until the end. Especially when so much relies on her going to the Riverlands first, such as her reuniting with Nymeria as well as LSH. I just think it’s more important for the characters to be gaining allies and reuniting the people. Even if they don’t know about the Long Night coming yet, having these groups of people already united will making joining forces a lot easier. I mean we already have Jon in the North joining forces with the free folk and him, Bran and Rickon will reunite the north. Sansa is in the Vale and will likely bring them into the war when news comes and Arya will be in the Riverlands. If this happens, this covers a large part of Westeros in being reunited against the real enemy and they are also the most northern kingdoms.

Now I could be completely wrong, Arya could in fact go north first and then go south, but I think it’s kind of dependent on how many POV chapters she’s going to have in the next two books and when she in fact gets on a ship to sail to Westeros. And I think GRRM left it open on purpose, like he does with so many aspects in the books as he likes planting various seeds. So I think if Arya gets less than eight chapters and indeed travels back with Massey, Poole, and Mormont she won’t get to Westeros until the end of TWOW which makes me think she will go to the Riverlands first. However if she gets more than 8 chapters in TWOW and leaves on her own after at least 5 chapters than I could see it going either way. But like I said I just feel like there is too much evidence for Arya reuniting with LSH and everyone else and I just feel like that situation could do a lot more for Arya as a character instead of being on the sidelines while someone else does all the important things which would happen if she’s just milling about with most of her alive siblings again. Because if she goes North first all she would do is probably kill the Bolton’s and I don’t think that’s conducive to her character arc, considering I believe it’s supposed to be going in the direction where she gives up her list and learns to embrace life, justice, and mercy to a fuller extent. I also think Arya is meant for a leadership arc in some way too and I think this would be easier to achieve in the Riverlands first and foremost.

As for the other houses, I’m unsure who they will align with. I think the show got some aspects right when it comes to the that, but I think they changed most of it. I do think Cersei blows up the Sept, killing a lot of important nobles, and I do think Randall Tarly is going to betray the Tyrells by siding with someone else (I think it will be fAegon in the books). However so much is different, so it’s hard to determine, even with the books possible foreshadowing, which way these more southern houses with side with. And I think it really depends on if Dany conquers/tries to conquer KL first and whether she fails or not. I like to think she gains the throne before joining the fight against the Others though. A lot of factors to determine.

Right, what if Arya goes to White Harbor first? Idk if it is gonna happen, but if the trigger for her coming back to Westeros is Jon's death, wouldn't it be more plausible if she sails North first, and then, after Ramsay be *uhum*,gently killed and his soul be tortured for eternity in the seven hells, they go to the Riverlands? Bran would be in Winterfell with Rickon, because there should always be a Stark in Winterfell, and who is better to take care of the situation than the three eyed raven? After a few months to recover the army from Ramsay's battle and a bit of the shit winterfell folk had passed, yada, yada, they can go south. Sansa being in the Vale, possibly already killed Petyr and married to Harwin, would she probably meet them? Or maybe, she would try to contact Bran first? It is more plausible, since Sansa do not have the best relationship with Jon and Arya in the books.

It makes more sense, right?

And by Robb's will, Jon is his heir, and will probably be crowned king. And where the crown is ? In the Riverlands.

So, the Vale is helping the North with supriments, the Riverlands serve only the North.

F!Aegon is already trying to conquer the Seven Kingdoms, the Stormlands and Dragonstone is his, while the Lannisters sit with Casterly Rock, Red Keep and the High Garden.

Possibly the realm will be divided during a long time till Dany comes to Westeros with Dragons, what can take a year, or two. We know that she will join forces with the North.

Where to put Dorne, tho? What will happen when they find out F!Aegon is not Elia's son? Treason? Is this what will kill f!aegon? It makes kind of sense, since I do not see neither Doran or the Sand Snakes be happy with someone playing be a part of the family, much less Elia's supposed dead son. What will happen with Dorne?

Would be interesting to see Dorne joining force with the North, because would be like Cercei being trapped in her own game.

Her view that all people out of the Lannister put her in this situation. She made enemies out of everyone, till all she has is the Red Keep.(Because if Tyrion join forces with Dany, I can totally see him coming for Casterly Rock)

I do not see Dorne joining force neither with the North, for obvious reasons(Lyanna/Rhaegar/Jon) or Dany(Quentyn Martell, and I know it wasn't Dany's fault or wish, but it happend, and the Dornish actually do not forget), if F!Aegon be killed/eliminated from the Great Game. Dorne is a Joker card in all of it.

Where the others come? Before or after Cercei is eliminated? In wich side Highgarden will be seeing all of it? Will they betray Cercei, or will Cercei kill Margaery as she did in the show?

I really want everyone against Cercei. Because she always tought to be so smart, but all the time, she was making her own grave.

Im anxious.

#asoiaf

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