#also i don’t often draw men so if they look like a lesbian couple it’s because in my heart….

[izzenithal]

blatantly flirting w your childhood crush at the political function bc u want to horrify him with your monster teeth and bad personality but he’s been in love with u for a decade

[buddielove]

Hi! I'm a gay fan of 911 and I have a question about the whole Buddie fandom. As much as I like Buck and Eddie, it's frustrating that a HUGE part of the fandom is pushing for these two characters to get together instead of putting energy into supporting Hen & Carla and Michael & Dave. Not to mention Carlos and TK in Lone Star. Can you explain to me the appeal of wanting these two men together? Wouldn't it be more interesting to see two heterosexual males just be able to bond in a non-toxic fashion? That's something we don't get to see often on television.

Hey! This is MAD long lmao I am so sorry! You caught me on a day I felt like talking! Also this took like a year to answer you lolololol. This does have a few ʻhot takesʻ so please be warned! So like in this essay....

So first I am also apart of the LGBTQIA+ community, so I do understand how it could come across as a fetish or being non supportive of the current canonically LGBTQIA+ characters, however I think a lot of the interest around Buddie and the want for them to be confirmed as a couple is how they are being written. Me personally I knew since s2 e1 Buck and Eddie were written not as rivals but as two people who would eventually become friends, but it wasn’t until the Christmas episode with the elf assuming Buck was Chris’s dad and Eddie’s partner that I was like ‘hold on!’ because I was really hoping Abbey would return and I didn’t see Eddie as a possible Buck live interest because of that. The elf’s comment wasn’t played off like most other shows would (think Dean and Sam arriving anywhere in Supernatural) it made me go back and look at the other episodes to see exactly how Buck and Eddie were being framed/written. And as we have moved into further seasons I think there has been a shift in how Buddie is being written, in s3 it was very much like two people progressing into a deeper friendship then the blood clot/lawsuit gets in the way and they both have to deal with emotions surrounding that, then Buck’s response to Eddie being trapped (we see how is he when Boddy is trapped in a fire WITH A GUNMAN, it’s emotional but not to the point is is with Eddie), even the love interests feel very pushed on us and there’s so little banter between Buddie about their gfs and how they feel about these new beginnings. It feels off, not like a friendship in the slightest, more like two people trying to force something and not wanting to deal with any other feelings. Then when Eddie gets shot and reveals Buck is Chris’s legal Guardian in the event Eddie dies, that’s huge, and he did this after only a year of knowing Buck (I have friends with kids. I’ve known one of them for FIVE years, I’m at their house every week, the kid calls me family. I’m person #10 on the list of ‘who gets my kid if I die’, not #1 lol) It just feels like it’s all building up to something, and people are getting tired of waiting for that something! We’re all emotionally tired from the past two years, and probably from many shows queerbaiting us and this is something that could happen, seems to be something the actors are ok with and the fans want. So why do they keep drawing it out. This isn’t about us demanding they ignore the chance to write a healthy platonic male friendship, or forcing two characters to be gay, it’s about holding the writers to what they’ve implied and seeing what could come of it.

Also think of it like this; If Buddie is confirmed it will still be a good example of a healthy friendship which then developed into something else, like Booth/Bones! Showing the natural progression of friendship to relationship that happens a lot in real life. It’s two men who previously (on screen at least) have only been with woman, but now they have an emotionally connection with someone which they then develop and explore. This could be 911’s first nontoxic depiction of two gay characters coming together, because sorry not sorry the canon couples aren’t perfect (which does humanize them) but they also reenforce harmful troupes that plaque the LGBTQIA+ community, which I’m sure you understand: TK was a drug addict, who only got with Carlos at first cause he was hot and sex was TK’s new addition (all gay men are sex addicts who do drugs and sleep with anything that moves). Carlos was ashamed and wanted to keep TK on the downlow (poc gay men want to pretend to be straight but have free access to gay sex). Hen cheated on Karen seemingly the first chance she got (lesbians can’t handle monogamy when pushed, and cheat on their long term partners). All known and documented troupes that happen far too often.

I’m not saying Buddie is some gay jesus ship that’s gonna save the entertainment industry but if done right it could prove to be one of the few healthy depictions of two men getting into a gay relationship we have. If they plan it out correctly, show us the relationship development, like they did with Maddie/Chim for example, Buddie could be used as a positive example of a gay fictional relationship (I really could go into depth about this. I probably should tbh).

As for not supporting Hen and KAREN, or Michael and DAVID, I think fans do support them! The writers don’t. If you read fanfics Henren and Michael/David are featured heavily in many fics, and ik some people might say ‘well they’re only there so Buddie can talk about their gay side!!’ but both these couples have their own fans and fanfic tags! They aren’t just plot devices in Buddie stories. There is a huge side of the fandom that supports Henren and wants to see more of them and their family. Same with Michael and David, during the episode where Michael and Bobby team up to find that plastic surgeon who was working illegally many people where ecstatic that we were getting more Michael/David content and that David was getting more than a couple lines. But sadly it seems like the writers only want to delve into these story lines when they need filler, they even miss opportunities to include these other LGBTQIA+ characters when it makes sense;

(Someone came for me about this but I am going to bring it up again)

When Chris is sad and wants more human connection, instead of bring Harry + Michael/David and Denny+Nia+Henren back into the picture (and yes I understood at the time the pandemic was bad (lmao still is!!), but all the actors at some point would have/had crossed over into each other’s ‘bubbles’, so ALL the actors would have been exposed to each other so getting the children together with adults they had ALREADY been with during shooting wouldn’t have been a super spreader event) but instead they brought in Ana after only two on screen dates and pretended like it was a logical thing for someone who’s up to that point been extremely careful with their child.

They really could have pushed the ‘118 is a family!’ message here and included the canonically gay supporting characters, and the lesbian main character(s) but they did not and instead chose to push the Ana/Eddie coupling even though they hadn’t properly developed it yet. The writers themselves don’t seem to care about developing their canonically gay characters and including them more than they have to but fans are continuously developing Henren and Michael/David with hc and fics.

I’d like to use your logic against you for a second, in s1 we have a very healthy, platonic friendship between Chim/Bobby but that got written out to the point they are more like boss/employee unless the scene calls for them to seem closer, we now have Bobby and Michael friendship but again we hardly see Michael. On Lone Star we have Owen and Judd as a really, really good example of a healthy male friendship but we see Judd more often with Tommy now then we do with Owen, and in s2 it’s overshadowed by Owen trusting Charlie from Twilight and constantly getting fucked over! Why can’t the writter just be happy with these happy, healthy, emotionally well male-male friendship they’ve already included and expand upon them. There’s enough drama because the show literally involves burning buildings and people’s lives being at risk from some natural/man made disaster ever 12 seconds. Does it need to have so much interpersonal conflict and male peacocking??

[vintage-bentley]

sorry if you've already said something on this but opinion on f/f stuff written/drawn for GO or OFMD? i have a soft spot for genderbent azi it's really cute but i can see how some people could be put off by genderbending m/m

Dw I don’t think I’ve said anything about it before! And even if I did, I don’t mind talking about things more than once.

In general, I don’t really have a strong opinion. My problem is more with the people who only genderbend one of them and make it M/F, because then they’re turning a gay couple straight. Turning a gay couple into a genderbent gay couple isn’t really an issue imo. Unless it comes from a weird place of only being okay with M/M or F/F, but I think that would apply more to starting with a F/F couple and then genderbending to M/M. Because the majority of fandom seems to be straight women, who can sometimes have an attitude of “omg I love gay men so much!! Slay, queens! Lesbians are gross though”. So if they started genderbending, say Calliope/Juliette from First Kill into men, I would be wondering if it had to do with them finding M/M more digestible.

HOWEVER. GO is a bit different from OFMD because of the fantasy elements and general fandom bullshittery. I find myself uncomfortable with ineffable wives because I know that often the idea isn’t that it’s a separate AU, but rather that it’s the canon characters magically changing their sex, which isn’t something I’m a fan of. Especially because it comes with the implication that they’d both suddenly be attracted to women if one or both of them magically became female, and I see them both as being exclusively into men. But if it’s an AU where they’re both lesbians from the start, with no genderism going on, I’d probably like it. (You know those fics where the TV guys meet the book guys and it’s like a multiverse thing? Somebody needs to write something where one or both pairs meet the lesbian versions of themselves from a genderbent universe where Adam ate the apple and A/C are female. That would be peak LG solidarity right there)

So basically, when it’s an AU, I don’t really care. When it’s magic sex shapeshifting, big nope. And because I know the GO fandom is usually coming from the second perspective, it usually makes me uncomfortable.

On another note, I tend to be really picky with F/F content, and I assume that comes from my being a lesbian and wanting content that reflects myself and my experiences. And also because of my tendency to look at things through a feminist lens, so it’s hard to enjoy a lot of content about women because the women can often feel more like decorations than people. For example, a lot of ineffable wives designs are hyper feminine women who you can only tell are supposed to be A/C because of the hair colour, and I’m not a fan of that. I’m here for Aziraphale and Crowley, not Random Pretty Woman #1 and Random Pretty Woman #2. It often just feels like people are drawing generic attractive women and slapping the ineffable wives title on them. It’s not for me. Some designs are really nice though and do feel like the characters I know, just as women. It pretty much comes down to, does this genderswap keep the personality of the original characters, or are they just here to look good?

Genderbent OFMD, from the little I’ve seen, seems to just be drawing the characters the same way as they are in the show, but just as women? I haven’t seen enough of it to be sure of what it’s like but I’ve seen a few female Edwards who are basically just him but female. I don’t actually think I’ve seen any female Stedes but I’d assume they’re the same?

[juiceastronaut]

Okay so. I watched Q-force. And I have no idea what I think about it.

Imma just be rambling so I'll break down the characters and my likes/dislikes about them before giving my plot breakdown at the end. Only the main/prominent ones because I don't have time.

Steve Maryweather-Easily the best character out of them, with Deb being a close second. He could've very easily fallen into the trope of being someone who was incompetent but expected the world anyway, but he doesn't. He graduated top of his class, and despite his quirks is a genuinely competent team leader, and wants the best for his team. He wants to prove that he and his team are competent enough to get recognition, and has a genuine faith in the people around him. It was refreshing to see him hold his team in a genuine high regard, where a lot of times it's like "We're shit but lets do this thing now" He's a genuinely well-rounded character, and (and forgive me if this isn't the best way to frame this) it feels like being gay is an important part of his character, without encompassing the whole thing. I thought Benji and his relationship was super cute and I was sad when they broke up. I was afraid he was going to be, like a second but worse Twink with the stereotyping but gladly fell away from that.

Deb-I thought her and her wife were super cute (though I hate how the wife is designed ngl adjafkldajfd). I liked Debs character, but I feel like she had a lot of racial stereotyping that wouldn't be inherently obvious unless you were looking for them, her being the strong one, and also the "mama" type at the same time. No one treated her with disrespect, and her lesbianism seemed to be more authentic but I feel like there wasn't a lot of thought put into what these tropes were and why they were bad. Her being black and making her the mama type, as well as the big strong type could be read as tasteless. Again, I really liked her character but these were some things I noticed while watching.

Twink- You know, I didn't really like him at first, I thought he was the epitome of all the bad stereotyping (though I'm just glad him and Mary didn't get put into the same category). His humor isn't my taste, and it just kinda seemed like someone for half of his lines went "what twitter stan language can we put in here?" And sometimes it was a bit too random for my tastes. However! I do like that his drag was considered important and was an integral part to a lot of missions they went on, and not just "Ah look at that dumb gay trying to find reasons to dress in drag." His talents and expertise were both respected and, save for Buck (which his whole point was supposed to be offensive anyway) no one undermined Twink for his femininity. His back story is also kinda random but did play a role in the missions as well. Still, personally think he's the worst character. Plus, he's French so minus four-twenties amount of points.

Stat-You know, in a show where everyone was stating what letter they were every few seconds I was surprised that I had to look up that Stat was trans. I...liked her character for the most part, except the part where she was fucking a robot. Kinda weird ngl, outta left field, and with her being trans I wonder if her having that sort of relationship is problematic for her. Love her design tho, love me a hacker girl. She's also listed as "ambiguously gay" tho showed to have mostly girl love interests but, okay.

Buck-He's the straight guy, emotionally repressed haha and he's bigoted. Did think it was funny later on when he was more "accepting" but managed to be even more infuriating about it. Tied with Twink as worse character but you know they tried to do stuff with him.

Vee-Really liked me a boss lady, but kinda weird how they bait-and-switched us with her actually being a lesbian, then go "no she's straight tho" in regards to Karen. I thought her and Mary's relationship was cute, wish I saw more of it. But she did feel like a random plot device in later seasons, what with her disappearing and reappearing when it was plot relevant. (Tho she HOTOHOTHOTHOT bikini episode WOOOWEEEE)

....

Okay, so now the plot....which. it had one?

It felt like it was flip flopping back n forth about whether it wanted to take itself seriously or not, and it seemed to decide on serious more towards the end, but then it would have this random plot element that would be so out of left field it would pull me out of my suspension of disbelief. See the whole "Back cracking to unlock memories" plot point. This back and forth on whether it would be a comedy or not I think weakened both categories it tried to play into.

If I had to compare the show to anything it would probably be Futurama, but the thing with Futurma is, its set in the future, so you're suspension of disbelief is allowed to stretch a bit more because all the wacky quirky stuff can be attributed to future shenanigans. Q-force, to my knowledge, is set in the modern day, which makes the wacky stuff that much wacker, because it's set in our modern times, which you apply the rules of everyday life to.

A lot of the problems that I had with Q-Force is, in the attempt to write specifically about the "gay experience" revealed that the writers have really only had a very specific experience of interacting with gay ppl, what I call the "Urban Gay" experience.

The fact they're in West Hollywood, and all the things that were listed as "universal gay experiences" but were only things that you'd be exposed to if you were in the city. I think a flavor of "white gay" can be implemented here too, which Q force has exactly one black woman, who manages to be the only lesbian.

That coupled with the fact that, there's a difference between having Twink naturally being a drag queen, the whole team being gay to some degree, and the fact they interact with the gay community often without Drawing Attention to all of those things and self-congratulating itself on concluding it. Funnily enough, Q-Force had examples of doing this right and doing this right. Right way: In the second or third episode where Mary found that guy with the flash drive to the uranium in it and seduced him in the gay bar. Relevant that it was gay without overtly drawing attention to it. Wrong-Way: Having Pride go on while Girl Boss was trying to take over the world.

And, for the show that promoted itself as representing the gay experience, there were...two gay men, one lesbian, one trans person, one straight guy and...no bisexual people. Also no nonbinary people. Like of course it's unrealistic to include every single identity but you're one bisexual person who appeared for one episode and was promptly blown up. And also showed to be...more off than the other characters, what with the stealing of silverware and all. Just, bisexual people are already forgotten enough as it is and not including them in the show, but you include two gay men just kinda reads as tasteless to me (as a bisexual person, obviously).

Which makes it so weird that Stat was left "ambiguously gay" when she could've easily been bisexual (which still would be problematic because of the robot-fucking but at least you got the B in there somewhere in the main group)

Overall, it tried to market itself as the "be all end all" of what it was like to be gay, but ended up excluding the exact people that get excluded in real-life lgbt spaces. This combined with the indecision with what kind of show it wanted to be managed to make it fall short. If you arent the very specific type of gay person who lives in a city environment and doesn't fit the stereotypes showed you're not going to feel "seen" by the show.

Weirdly though, I didn't hate watching it, and I would probably watch another season if they managed to make one. The parts that did work, I think worked really well, and even the bad parts just read as tasteless, and not actively terrible. If they focused less on making "hey I'm gay" jokes every three seconds and just let each character be what they are I think the show would be stronger for it. And I think they'd find less problems overall if they did that too. In the mean time I'll just be here side-eyeing the whole thing.

Edit: I forgot to mention, and this is a problem a lot of adult TV shows fall into, that because they got the clear to show nudity/sex they felt like they *had* to show nudity and to a lesser extent sex every episode. So just that whole "Haha adult=sex obviously."

Oh! And this generally goes for the whole "shove it in your face" part, but a lot of the characters who are bigoted were shown to be. Very blatantly so. And not to say there isn't blatantly bigoted ppl of course they are but I don't think that's where you see a lot of bigotry nowadays. This was sort of touched on during the show but more of a jokey manner, but I think it would've been more realistic if we had more "girl with a gay best friend" kinda bigotry as opposed to the "I'm literally hurling slurs at you" bigotry, especially since they're in Cali.

[starsbythepocketful12]

headcanons cause i’m in flarrie hours

they are THE couple when it comes to halloween costumes

all their outfits for big events (parties, gigs where dirty candy and/or jatp perform) are coordinated

carrie my femme queen & flynn my nonbinary lesbian darling

go to protests & marches together

flynn lends carrie books by her favorite Black female authors & carrie lends her books by her favorite sapphic poets

they make playlists about each other but the other doesn’t know they do it (julie & kayla are the only ones permitted to know of the existence of these playlists & have been sworn to secrecy, though julie has a strong suspicion carrie also makes playlists about flynn and vice versa)

have a joint pinterest account for their wedding moodboard

carrie adopted a tiger cub and named it flynn for their three month anniversary

they go to the mall together every other weekend and shop, which they both love to do and when they get home they always model the new outfits they bought

flynn squeals every time they see a dog in public and always runs over and asks if they can pet it and carrie always watches her with such a fond look that the owner almost always makes a comment on what a lovely couple they are or asks how long they’ve been together (something that has actually been happening since even before they were dating, and back then you can imagine the flustered ness it caused)

flynn often comes to watch dirty candy rehearsals, cheer them on, make sure they’re staying hydrated/taking snack breaks and that carrie’s not overworking herself

carrie is the first person that flynn tells she wants to DJ professionally and carrie gets her her first gig

eventually flynn gets into producing as well and ends up making a track for carrie, who writes lyrics to it and it becomes dirty candy’s most successful song to date

carrie says i love you first one saturday afternoon while they’re watching a movie on flynn’s computer in her room. flynn laughs at a joke and carrie looks over at her, her beautiful, incredible girlfriend, and simply can’t resist the urge to say it

flynn’s shocked into silence so carrie panics and leaves and doesn’t answer flynn’s messages

that night flynn shows up at the wilson mansion and throws rocks at carrie’s window until she comes out

flynn is upset with carrie for running out and ghosting her and carrie’s trying to defend herself so they argue but then flynn interrupts carrie by kissing her and breathlessly saying, “i love you.” carrie kisses her and not another word on it is said

carrie steals flynn’s hats

they’re not really PDA-y, they just happen to engage in a lot of unconscious, casual affection, like flynn often absentmindedly intertwines their pinkies and carrie doesn’t realize her arm is around flynn’s shoulders until she’s doing it

even after months of dating will still flirt like they’re in their enemies who are secretly very attracted to e/o era

flynn really loves art, particularly murals, so she drags carrie to a lot of gallery openings and museums

at one point when flynn’s going through a hard time carrie enlists all their friends for help making a giant mural full of drawings of things that make her happy

flynn happy cries when she sees it and is pretty much always seen hugging carrie for the rest of that night

only really cuddle when one (or both) of them is sleepy, though flynn does often sit on carrie’s lap

before starting to date, carrie would tease flynn for having stuffed animals during their sleepovers at flynn’s until they started dating and flynn started spending more time at carrie’s and flynn discovers that her girlfriend’s a little hypocrite

flynn has a younger sister and brother (sister is six, brother is four) and they absolutely ADORE carrie and think she’s the coolest and carrie thinks they’re the cutest

flynn’s like no they’re little demons and carrie’s says who says demons can’t be cute? you once called me a demon right, and im cute, aren’t i? and flynn rolls her eyes and fights back a smile

flynn also has a college aged older sister who she looks up to a lot, like that’s her hero and absolute role model, so naturally carrie’s terrified to meet her, and though she tries to appear intimidating at first, she can’t keep up the act for long and starts being friendly with carrie pretty much right away

one day they’re supposed to go on a date but carrie’s sick and forgot to text flynn telling her not to come so flynn shows up at her house but stays anyway to look after her

flynn reads to her and makes her soup

trevor & flynn play video games while carrie naps

flynn makes jewelry in her free time and consults carrie for her thoughts on every piece (in junior year she starts selling them at school & turns out to be quite the entrepreneur)

they have an inside joke about cosmo and wanda

a couple of the dirty candy members sometimes jokingly flirt with flynn and are like “watch out! we’re gonna steal your girl!” and carrie gets possessive and apologizes for it pretty quickly but flynn thinks it’s hot so it works out pretty well

will watch bad rom coms to make fun of straight people and throw popcorn at the screen when they get together

pet/nick names: care, baby, babe, love, (from carrie to flynn who shuts down upon hearing it) honey, (flynn to carrie, who becomes very giddy the first time flynn says it in a text message) sweetheart

if you couldn’t tell before they ofc have an enemies to friends to lovers arc

move in together after graduating, neither planning on going to college (julie goes to berkeley and nick some other place in california where they have lacrosse cause that’s the sport he plays right) and their parents think it’ll be a disaster but it actually goes really well

the first couple of weeks they fight more, all petty arguments mostly out of the stress of moving, but they always talk it out

it doesn’t take long for them to be happy they’re living together and feel really glad they took that step

two years after graduating flynn gives her a promise ring

carrie cries her eyes out and replies “of fucking course, you dumb fuck” when flynn asks if she’ll take it

ten years later carrie’s a successful pop star/choreographer & flynn’s a record breaking producer/DJ and they’re about to buy a house when they realize they never got married

it’s just a moment where they’re relaxing together on the couch and suddenly are like. oh

and proceed to burst out laughing

it’s a small ceremony, thrown together in just three weeks

carrie wears a short, light pink dress with a heart cutout in the back that would probably be more suited for a high school sophomore’s spring fling but no one cares

flynn wears a suit, and is walked down the aisle by her older sister

they both tear up upon seeing each other and sob through the vows (the traditional pre written ones, they wrote vows for each other but they recite them to the other when they’re alone, so it’s something special only they can share)

julie & kayla are the maids of honor, nick and alex are the best men

julie & luke’s five year old hernando is the ring bearer & alex and willie’s three year old umi is the flower child

trevor, flynn’s older sister and parents cry

even flynn’s now teenage younger siblings, who as of late have often been stereotypically cynical and moody shed tears

jatp perform at the reception (they have also become a hit band at this point)

when they get back from the honeymoon the first thing they do is get a dog

they adopt a golden doodle rescue named stella

a couple years later they start talking about kids and look into getting a sperm donor

because they love being competitive they do little games to decide who will be the one to carry the baby

it’s all jokes though, they decided at the start of the process that it would be flynn for the first kid and carrie for the second

but then SURPRISE flynn has twins

a boy and a girl named tyler and ollie (who’s who i won’t tell you cause fuck gender)

they don’t even talk about carrie getting pregnant now cause they’re busy with the babies and trying to manage their careers but one night, when the kids are eight, and flynn has just flopped onto the couch with a dramatic sigh after putting them to bed, carrie puts down her kindle and quietly says that she wants another kid.

they talk for hours because while flynn wants another kid too, when you’re both celebrities with demanding jobs and people constantly trying to peer into your life, that decision involves even more factors

they decide to have another kid and carrie chooses to take a step back from her career for now-she’ll return to it eventually but for now she wants to be able to just be a parent without worrying about work and not have to deal with the guilt that comes with working when she feels like she should be being a parent

though the kids have always been their main priority and they have done quite well dividing their time between work and being with them, and have done decently shielding them from the public eye (majority of the pictures of ollie & tyler that the public has are blurry candids, and the few high quality ones are from when they were three and they no longer look like that anyway so it’s all good)

it’s a harder process for carrie to get pregnant as she’s almost 40 and flynn was 31 when she had tyler and ollie

but it happens though they’re careful about choosing the sperm donor-even briefly consider asking reggie or nick-because with this kind of thing there’s always the risk that other parent could track down where their kid ended up and want to be a part of that kid’s life later on which is uber complicated for many reasons so they get those scary possibilities out of the way by just finding someone who they know wants to be in the child’s life

preston choi, a thai & korean american mathematics professor ends up being their guy

he’s immensely genuine, sweet, respectful, polite, and gentlemanly

when he came out at fifteen his parents kicked him out of the house

it was a long and difficult journey but they’re in a decent place now

but it’s not the family he wants to have and he’s tried but has yet to find a partner

but doesn’t want to wait to have kids so here he is, more than happy to co parent with flynn and carrie

so that’s what they do! tyler and ollie become big siblings to miles wilson-choi on december 10th, 2044

miles grows up in the most multicultural home ever, being fluent in 4 languages (English, AAVE, Spanish thanks to their tia julie, Korean, and Thai) all their life

tyler & ollie welcome preston and miles into the family with open arms, as well as the addition of korean and thai cuisine to the already amazing dinner tables they had of soul and caribbean food

when miles is seven carrie goes back to work full time, with preston’s assurance that he’s got this when her and flynn are busy and tyler and ollie (who are now fifteen) promising they’ll help out as well

at that point the long awaited julie and the phantoms/carrie and flynn wilson collaboration FINALLY happens

flynn wins her 28th grammy for it, leaving her tied with beyoncé for most grammys won by any woman ever (its julie’s 14th, luke’s 6th, and carrie’s 12th, and the band’s collective 10th cause alex never did any solo projects and reggie released one country album but it didn’t win any grammys rip though it was nominated for 2 CMAs)

[adorpheus]

on fujoshi and fetishization

Lately, more and more, both here on tumblr and on other sites, I keep seeing people spew unfiltered hatred at fujoshi - that is, women who like mlm content such as gay fanfic and fanart featuring men with other men. And I don’t mean like a specific type of fujoshi, like the ones who are genuinely being weird about it, but just like a general hatred for girls (but especially straight identifying girls) who express love for gay romance.

I hate to break this to you all, but women (including straight women!) actually are allowed to like mlm fanfiction and fanart, even enthusiastically so. A woman simply expressing her love of gay fanfic, even if it is in kind of a cringey way or a way that you personally don’t like, is NOT automatically fetishization.

I’ve been on the receiving end of fetishization for my entire life, from a very young age, as many black and brown folx have, so I consider myself pretty well acquainted with how it works. Fetishization isn’t just like, being really into drawings of boys kissing, or whatever the fuck y’all are trying to imply on this god forsaken site. 

Fetishization is complicated imo, and can encompass a lot of things, such as (but not limited to):

1 - dehumanization, e.g. viewing a group of people as sexual objects who exist purely for entertainment purposes, rather than acknowledging them as actual people who deserve respect and rights

and

2 - projecting certain assumptions onto said people based on their race/sexuality/whatever is being fetishized. These assumptions are often, but not always, sexual in nature (like the idea that black people in general are more sexual than other races, etc etc etc).

I’m going to use myself as an example to illustrate my point. Please note this isn’t the best or most nuanced example, but it is the most simplistic. A white person finding me attractive and respectfully appreciating my black features as part of what makes me beautiful is not, on its own, fetishization. A white person finding me attractive solely or mostly because I’m a PoC is now in fetishization territory. Similarly, assuming I’m dominant because of my blackness (like saying “step on me mommy” and shit like that) is hella fetishistic. 

That being said, theres definitely a difference between how fetishization works in real life with real people, and how it shows up in fandom. 

Fetishization manifests in many different ways in fandom, but most commonly on the mlm side of things, I personally see it appear as conservative (or centrist) women who love the idea of two men together, but don’t actually like gay people, and don’t necessarily think LGBT+ people deserve rights (or “special treatment” as its sometimes dog whistled). These women view queer men as sexual objects for entertainment rather than an actual group of people who deserve to be protected from systemic oppression. I’ve noticed that they often don’t even think of the men they “ship” together as actually being gay, and may even express disgust at the idea of a character in an mlm ship being headcanon’d gay. In case its not obvious, this is pretty much exactly the same way a lot of cishet men fetishize lesbians (they see “lesbian” as a porn category, rather than like, what actual LGBT people think of when we read the word lesbian). There’s a pretty popular viral tweet thread going around where someone explains seeing this trend of conservative women who like mlm stuff, and I have also personally witnessed this phenomenon myself in more than one fandom. 

The funny thing is, maybe its just me buuuut.... The place I see this particular kind of fetishization happen most is not in the anime/BL fandom, from which the term fujoshi originates - I actually see these type of women way way more in western fandom spaces like Supernatural, Harry Potter, and Hannibal. I can’t stress this enough, there’s a shocking amount of people who are like, straight up trump supporters in these fandoms. If you want to experience it, try joining a Hannigram or Destiel group on facebook and you will probably encounter one eventually especially if you happen to be living through a major historical event. Like these women probably wouldn’t even be considered “fujoshi”, because that term doesn’t really apply to them given they aren’t in the BL/anime fandom, yet they’re the ones I personally see actually doing the most harm.

Of course this isn’t the ONLY kind of fetishizing woman in the mlm/BL world, there are other ways fetishization shows up, but this is the most toxic kind that I see.

A girl just being really into BL or whatever may be “cringe” to you, or she may be expressing her love for BL in a “cringey” way, but a straight woman really enjoying BL is not, on its own, somehow inherently fetishization. Yes, sometimes teenage girls act kind of cringe about how much they like BL and that might be annoying to you, but its not necessarily ~problematic~. 

That being said, IT NEEDS BE REMARKED that a lot of the “fujoshi” that you all hate so deeply, are actually closeted trans men or nonbinary people who haven’t yet come to terms with their gender identity, or are otherwise just NOT cishet. I know because I was one of these closeted people for years, and I honestly think tumblr and the cultural obsession around purity is one of the many reasons I was closeted so deeply for so long. STORYTIME LOL!!! In my early adolescence, I was a sort of proto “fujoshi”. I identified as a bi girl who was mostly attracted to men, or as most (biphobic) people called it, “practically straight”. I wrote and read “slash��� fanfic and looked at as well as drew my own fanart. We didn’t use the term fujoshi back then, but that’s definitely how I could have been described. I was obsessed with yaoi, BL, whatever you want to call it, to a cringe-inducing degree. I really struggled to relate to most het romances, so when I first discovered yaoi fanfics (as we called them at the time), I fell in love and felt like I finally found the type of romance content that was made for me. I didn’t know exactly why, I just knew it hit different. LGBT+ fanart and fanfiction brought me an immense amount of joy, and I didn’t really think too hard about why.

At some point, in my early 20s, after reading lots of discourse™ here on tumblr and other places like twitter, I started to get the sinking feeling that my passion for gay fanfiction was ~problematic~. I had always felt a sense of guilt for being into mlm content, because literally anyone who found out I liked BL (especially the men I dated) shamed me for liking it all the fucking time (which btw is literally just homophobic, like can we talk about that?). In addition to THAT bullshit, now I’m seeing posts telling me that girls who like BL are cringey gross fetishists who inspire rage and should go die? 

Let me tell you, I internalized the fuck out of messages like this. I desperately wanted to avoid being ~problematic~. At the time, I thought being problematic was like the worst thing you could be. I was terrified of being “cancelled”, before canceling was even really a thing. I thought to myself, “oh my god, I’m gross for liking this stuff? I should stop.” I beat myself up over this. I wanted so badly to be accepted, and to be deemed a Good Person by the internet and society at large.

I tried to shape up and become a good ally (lmfao). I stopped writing fanfic and deleted all the ones I was working on at the time. I made a concerted effort to assimilate into cishet culture, including trying to indulge myself more deeply in the few fandoms I could find that had het content I did enjoy (Buffy, True Blood, Pretty Little Liars, etc). I would occasionally look at BL/fanfic/etc in private, but then I would repress my interest in it and not look for a while. Instead I would look at women in straight relationships, and create extremely heterosexual Couple Goals pinterest boards, and try to figure out how I could become more like these women, so I, too, could be loved someday. 

This cycle of repression lasted like eight years. Throughout it all, I was performing womanhood to the best of my ability and trying to become a woman that was worthy of being in a relationship. I went in and out of several “straight” relationships, wondering why they didn’t make me feel the way reading fanfic did. Most of all, I couldn’t figure out why straight intimacy didn’t work for me. I just didn’t enjoy it. I always preferred looking at or making gay fanfiction/fanart over actual intimacy with men in real life. 

Eventually, I stumbled upon a trans coming out video that someone I was following posted online, my egg started to crack, and to make an extremely long story short, after like 3 years of introspection and many gender panic attacks that I still experience to this day, I realized that I’m uh... MAYBE... NOT CIS..!? :|

I truly believe if I had just been ALLOWED TO LIKE GAY STUFF WITHOUT BEING SHAMED FOR IT, I probably would have realized I was trans way way sooner. Because for me, indulging in my love of gay romance and writing gay fanfic wasn’t me being a weirdo fetishist, it was actually me exploring my own gender identity. It is what helped me come to terms with being a nonbinary trans boy.

Not everyone realizes they are trans at age 2 or whatever the fuck. Sometimes you have to go through a cringey fujoshi phase and multiple existential crises to realize how fucking gay you are AND THATS FINE.

And one more thing - can we just be real here? 

A lot of anti-fujoshi sentiment is literally just misogyny. omg please realize this. Its “women aren’t allowed to enjoy things” but, like... with gay fanfics. Some of the anti-fujoshi posts I see come across my dash are clearly ppl projecting a caricature they invented in their head of a demonic fujoshi fetishist onto any woman who expresses what they consider to be a little too much enthusiasm for gay content and then using their perception of that individual as an excuse to justify their disdain for any women, especially straight women, ‘invading’ their ~oh so exclusive~ queer fandom spaces.

 god get over yrselfs this is gatekeeping by another name

idk why i spent so long writing this no one is even going to read it, does anyone even still use this site

*EDIT: HOLY SHIT WHEN DOING RESEARCH FOR THIS POST I FOUND OUT THAT Y-GALLERY IS BACK OMG!!! 

[komoryriku]

Queering KH: Part 2

How to Queer this Anime Game? By me, an American nerd lol

Pictured: Dream. Drop. Distance. Sequel. 8)))

What is Queering 

I’m so excited to talk about this okay this is literally the only fun thing I get to do as an English major anymore lmao.

“Queering a text” is the academic term for taking a given text and extracting the queer subtext of it, or applying a queer reading to it. It is taking a piece of literature, film, or art and reading into it for the gay coding. It is an especially important tool for reading old literature written during periods of extreme homosexual oppression, wherein the author would be forced to hide hints of homosexuality under layers and layers of superficial text.

Pictured: Sora and Riku battling Ursula as she means to wreck their ship, mirroring the disaster that Sora’s friends Eric and Ariel (lovers) faced at sea.

As a post-structuralist, I am also here to inform you that every text is made up of intertextual influence. This means whether the JK Rowlings of the world intended it or not, their characters may well be queer coded because of the unconscious influence of homoerotic customs in our culture that have permeated the text. It’s why people speculated that Newt Scamander was gay, because he showed little interest in Tina and preferred to focus on his beasts, which is not normative for a male protagonist in straight media. People likewise considered that Merida from Pixar’s Brave might be gay, because she had no interest in dating men and wanted to live a wild lifestyle traditionally associated with masuculinity, things that are pretty in line with lesbian coding. And let me tell you, lgbt claimed Queen Elsa IMMEDIATELY for very good reason. Pretty much everything about her journey, purposefully or not, makes for an strikingly overt gay metaphor. Let it Go is a coming out song for a woman suffocating under normativity all her life, deal with it.

Same, Elsa.

Oh whoops I accidentally pasted this picture of Riku here.

Keep Cultural Distinctions in Mind

Something else important I want to point out is that different cultures are- different lol. They are going to vary. What is queer coding here is not necessarily queer coding in Japan. A man presenting femininely in American media would certainly get him coded as gay. A bishonen in an anime though? Not so much. Men bathing together in Japan is common practice so that would mean nothing gay over there. In America however, you have things like this vine. 

In which 2 dudes are chilling as far away as possible from each other in a hot tub to prove they are not gay lol.

So when I say the male members of Organization XIII bathe together, it means literally nothing in a Japanese context.  

But let me tell you this: homosexual mlm tend to enjoy bathing with other dudes. Sexual attraction is sexual attraction no matter where you go. So how would you queer code a Japanese character as gay in a hot tub context? 

By American logic, if the straight thing to do is sit 5 feet apart in a hot tub, then the inverse, the gay thing to do, would be 2 men sitting very close together in a hot tub. So if I were to code 2 American male characters as gay in a hot tub context, that is what I would do. But if I really wanted to hammer it home, I would ALSO have them blushing so there is no straight explanation for their closeness. 

And for a Japanese character, for whom bathing with men might well mean nothing, I’d definitely have them physically blush, so that you know it does NOT just “mean nothing” to him...

Oh look at that. Amano went out of her way to draw Roxas blushing at the concept of bathing with men. So when I say “the members of Orginization XIII bathe together”, you know that means something to Roxas, cuz the coding tells us so. There are indeed certain ways you can depict a shonen being either interested in or at least affected by that idea. You just have to mind those codes telling you what the character really feels, especially when they can’t really say it.

Speaking of blushes, Amano uses them a lot. 

They’re a pretty effective tool for hiding gay coding into your characters cuz an anime character might blush for any number of reasons, from being flustered by their crush, 

to being flustered because they don’t have a crush.

If you’ve ever translated Japanese media, (I haven’t, but I have friends who do), you know that Japanese is very vague which means you need the whole context to properly understand a scene. It’s a similar situation with queer coding. Consider this scene of Roxas blushing. 

If Roxas felt positively about the insinuation that he and Xion are holding hands, how might one code this? Well, if he’s feeling really excited about it in a positive way, you might draw him smiling or expressing flattery on his blushing face. However, Roxas reacts negatively, with a frown on his blushing face. This insinuates he does not like this idea at all, especially since he also shuts it down right away in his dialogue.

But you might say “Well how do we know he isn’t just shy?” to which I say- well we can’t know. That’s the whole point of queer coding in literature. It is to say a character is queer but without actually saying it, to give plausible deniability for safety. It is to suggest a character is queer but without any confirmation. It does not mean that the character isn’t queer, however. It just means it cannot be confirmed by the text alone. However, a bold text that is very determined to have hidden queer characters without any straight explanations, will provide coding that has very little or no straight explanation. 

Back to the Roxas and Xion dialogue^. This scene alone cannot confirm or deny anything. As I explained however, the suggestion that Roxas is not straight IS there. Considering the whole context, also, this scene is another piece of “evidence” to add to the pile of suggestions that Roxas isn’t straight. This coupled with the bathing panel, and this panel of him admiring Axel, his male mentor, with deep flattery during his first day of adventuring, all exist.

Roxas does not express negative sentiments in his blushing at men, nor does he say anything dismissive to them. When he blushes at Xion’s comment, however, it is with a negative reaction. Consider also that if the author wanted Roxas to appear straight, she would present them in ways that allude to straightness and NOT in ways that allude to queerness. Roxas would not do suggestively queer things like blush in flattery at Axel calling him special and then dismiss Xion’s suggestion that they are holding hands if he were simply coded as straight. Queering a text sometimes requires a lot of critical thought like this. This is because again, these things are hidden, and sometimes hidden really well so that unsuspecting straight people will not even consider the queer suggestions. This is one of the advantages Nomura has in his favor with Kingdom Hearts: by making it so convoluted, the gay text can be forward, strong, and blatant but remain undetected by straight powers. This keeps the series safe from oppressive scrutiny. Characters like Namine and Xion can exist as literal illustrations of compulsory-heterosexuality. And people will still think Sora and Riku are straight. 

Even if I don’t know all the queer codes Japanese culture might specifically have, (and I do not, I do not live in Japan nor have any semblance of what that is like beyond what my friends who have lived there can tell me, and what I can research while sitting in my pajamas in Kentucky lol), there are certain things that are rather universal. Blushing, physical contact, lingering gazes, etc etc. Attraction is attraction and certain body language and other physical symbols will translate and will travel. So that’s the majority of what I will have to focus on. 

But I do want you to know that rainbows are still gay in Japan. 

Finally I also want to express that cultural intermingling is a thing. We do not live in bubbles, especially with the internet. Our cultures affect each other ALL the time. Although Kingdom Hearts is primarily a Japanese series, it is consciously tailored to appeal to both America and Japan. This is by design given the idea was to marry a Japanese hit like Final Fantasy with an American phenomenon like Disney’s media. This is why they take special care in minding the English translations and dubbing of the KH games (when they are able to do so, mistakes are still very often made and i hate it cuz they’re usually heterosexual-agenda-pushing “mistakes” =~=). The games are so intimately tied to both the Japanese and American cultures they are derived from which is part of why accurate translations are so important. And given what they would mean for queer audiences, what they represent for queer people makes accurate translations even MORE important. Some things get quite lost in translation, and some things are grossly added in translation. We will discuss that down the line...   

A brief aside that I implore you to ignore:

On the subject of Roxas not being straight, I have heard of one really fun queer motif in Japanese media which is ”ryoutoutsukai (両刀使い)”, “the two sword fencer”: the dual wielding bisexual. Now- I do not necessarily think this is a means of coding Roxas as bisexual, and beyond that, from what I’ve heard in my research on bisexuality in Japan, certain age groups don’t even believe in bisexuality there. However, a love of more than one gender exists no matter who is willing to acknowledge it or not, and this motif is there. And Promisekeeper and Oblivion do rather fit the bill of representing homosexuality (Oblivion/Soriku) and heteronormativity (Promisekeeper/Sora and his childhood friend Kairi). So- while i don’t think it means anything, this fun idea is there~  I will say, however, that as far as I can tell, Nomura and his staff know exactly what they’re doing with their queer coding and are well connected to it in both cultures. So I mean- if any anime team would know bisexuality exists and how to code it, I firmly believe the KH team would, so. There is some food for thought for you~

Get ready for part 3, I hope you like TWEWY~ B)

[woman-loving]

@eiriee replied to your post “@butyouvealwaysbeenthecaretaker replied to your post “I hate to say it, but...”

Do you have any posts on your thoughts regarding Bi: Notes? It's been on my shelf for years & I've read some of it but not finished.

I do, but they’re older and mostly rambling. The trouble I have with the book is that there’s so much content and framing that I disagree with that it’s hard to hold it all in my head and draw out a structured criticism for it. It’s been quite a while since I looked through it, but here are a couple of things I discussed in my older posts.

So, you know how some people will say that hostility toward women-loving women or woman-woman couples that’s expressed in the language of “lesbians” or “dykes” isn’t really about bi women? Eisner pulls a similar move to put bi women and biphobia at the center of harassment against WLW. They have a section on Sexual Violence in Chapter Four where they talk about men pressuring bi women (and also lesbians) to engage in threesomes or “perform bisexuality” by making out with other women. They then say (bolding mine):

At this point, some of you might be wondering why I consider these types of violence against bisexual women [men harassing women who make out in public, men asking if “they can watch,” etc] as biphobic rather than lesbophobic, since lesbians are often harassed in very similar ways to the ones I described. This is biphobia, however, rather than lesbophobia because this type of harassment is based on biphobic beliefs and perceptions even when they are aimed against lesbians. As explained throughout this chapter, the logic of this type of sexual violence is that bisexual women are “actually straight,” or only performing their bisexuality for male pleasure. When lesbians are harassed in the same way, they are first presumed to be bisexual, and then attached with the same biphobic notions used against bi women. What happens here is a combination of lesbophobia and biphobia: Lesbians first have their lesbian identity erased, and then are presumed to be “actually straight” as a result of being presumed as bisexual. Thus, biphobia constitutes the center here, and remains biphobia even when it is aimed at lesbians.

What we can see here is that this type of biphobia not only harms bisexual women, but also monosexual women, as it is also aimed against them. As explained above, lesbians often receive the same type of harassment as bisexual women when being affectionate or sexual in public. Heterosexual women are often also subject to pressure by strait men to perform bisexuality (privately or publicly) for their pleasure. In many communities (especially ones that consider themselves "alternative," "open," or "liberal"), performative bisexuality might be a standard that all women must meet. This means that in those communities, women are expected and pressured into being sexual with other women for the satisfaction of straight men. Although this mostly harms bisexual women (who are presumed to want this simply because they identify as bisexual), it also works against monosexual women.

What all of this means is that biphobia against women is not only the concern of bisexual women, but of all women regardless of their sexuality identity. [...]

This differs from the “misdirected lesbophobia” discourse, because they’re arguing that all women can be negatively affected by biphobia, and present this as a reason that people should take biphobia seriously. The people who argue that expressions of lesbophobia toward bi women are just “misdirected” are more often emphasizing a disconnect between the effect it has on bi women versus lesbians, and want to see this hostility as “really” only about lesbians (so that “dyke” as a politicized identity is the cultural property of lesbians exclusively). So Eisner’s not being as stingy with the centrality they claim for bisexual subjects in this type of harassment, but it’s still a shit move and denies a lot of ground to what can be considered “about” lesbians.

Ironically, I think Eisner and the “misdirected lesbophobia” camp talk about lesbophobia in a similar way, where the subject of “lesbophobia” must be understood--even by homophobes--as a woman who is exclusively attracted to women. The “misdirected lesbophobia” camp say that “a woman who is exclusively attracted to women” is what’s really on the homophobe’s mind when he calls a woman “dyke,” and therefore the insult can’t be about bi women, while Eisner presumes that a man harassing a woman to perform for him must believe that she’s genuinely open to men and therefore cannot really see her as a lesbian.

I think both sides misunderstand the slippages that occur when people see expressions of woman-women eroticism. I would argue that homophobia against women (which I would just call lesbophobia) often involves a denial that woman-woman eroticism is real/final, and that any women should be permitted to have sexual relations and identifications outside of particular heterosexualities. In other words, it’s possible for someone to know that there are women in the world who call themselves “lesbians” and claim to only like women, and to believe that this phenomenon is bad, without believing that “women who only like women” actually exist. If such a person argues that “lesbians” are just women who can’t get a man (an argument which presumes they want men), this is still a message about what self-identified “lesbians” are like, even though it totally dismisses their own understanding of their lesbianism. But going further, this message isn’t just “about” self-identified lesbians either, because it’s implicitly a message about all woman-woman eroticism and identifications, including bi women’s identity and desire toward women. Arguably, it’s even about women more broadly, in that it suggests that getting a man is a central preoccupation for women, and that perceived rebellious from women can be dismissed as a petulant reaction to failure in this area, rather than a reflection of agency and goals beyond patriarchal expectations.

In any case, it’s inaccurate to claim that this kind of harassment can’t really be “about” lesbians. Eisner’s logic isn’t consistent here, as you’ll notice. If a lesbian is treated as though she were open to men, they reason that actions toward her are reflective of attitudes about bi women specifically, not lesbians. But when a bi woman is treated as though she were “actually straight,” they don’t conclude that actions toward her must reflect attitudes toward straight women, not bi women or lesbians. There also isn’t an option for lesbians to be directly perceived as “actually straight,” even though this isn’t uncommon. Any suggestion that a lesbian might be open to men automatically moves the topic to bi women, meaning that there’s a whole huge area of lesbophobia that fundamentally has nothing to do with lesbians. (I think this move is cruel and outrageous, even if it’s a reversal of a move often used against bi women.) I also think they make the mistake of presuming that men only pressure women whom they think will be open to their advances. While the idea that women might eventually “like it” can be used as rationalization for this behavior, I think the behavior is rooted more in a simple lack of concern for women’s interests and boundaries, when men expect that they can get away with ignoring these.

Eisner makes similar moves in other places. Here they are talking about “lesbian” porn:

Following all of this, I think it would be more accurate to discuss “lesbian” porn in terms of bisexuality. If we follow from the sexual acts performed by the women appearing in these types of scenes, it would be very hard not to notice that bisexuality is here at work. The women in scenes titled lesbian have sex with each other, as well as with men. Even in scenes where no man is present at all, the logic behind the activity is still bisexual, since the women are perceived to be performing for a cis straight male audience.

These representations of bisexuality, in turn, contribute to the cultural construction of female bisexuality as we've seen it in the media depictions above. The media take up on the pornographic logic of bisexuality and send the same messages, but in covert ways. Thus, looking into pornographic representations of bisexual women might help us shed light on social and cultural treatment of female bisexuality in general.

Instead of recognizing the possibility for slippages in meaning, or that there can be inaccurate messages about lesbians as well as bi women (e.g. lesbian sexuality can also be regarded as a performance for men), Eisner finds in these representations an essential and exclusive bisexuality. Now, I do think that media representations of “lesbians” also inform attitudes toward bi women, that looking at them can be useful, and that representations of “lesbians” can simultaneously be representations of bisexuality. But I think it’s a silly exercise to claim that “lesbian” porn is only depicting bisexuality, as if the (fictionalized) dynamics depicted in media have their own independent and singular reality which can be empirically determined. Just a couple paragraphs above this, they obverse that “[t]he women's sexuality is irrelevant since the definitions are not about them but about the men fucking or watching them.” They should have gone a little bit farther with this idea, in my opinion!

While there are times when it makes sense, I think there can also be a danger in treating bisexuality as a singular expression, encompassing same-gender and man-woman relations, when these relations have very different positions in society. I think Eisner tends to treat bisexuality as a singular, marginalized expression that needs protection, including from gay people, in a way that can end up aligning with heterosexism. I don’t remember if this idea featured in their book, but they once made a post saying:

All gay and lesbian readings of mainstream movies and TV are based in bisexual erasure. Because in order to read characters as gay or lesbian, it is necessary to erase the character’s different-gender attraction and relationships.

It’s telling that they’re talking about “characters” having different-gender attraction, because of course these sexually-unmarked, mainstream “characters” are actually imagined, depicted, and normally received as straight. Eisner is again employing some weird media analysis where characters, even across individual imaginings (i.e. from the original creator’s depiction to a fan depiction), seem to have an independent reality. So interest in man-woman relations is an essential part of the character, always. Then, when you want to imagine that the character is interested is same-gender relations, you can only add that as an additional fact, thus making the character bisexual. And then, by becoming part of a (hypothetical) singular bisexual expression which is uniformly marginalized, canon man-woman relations now need protection against gay readings that would “erase” them. Even though these are actually straight characters in heteronormative media. The end result is that we’re meant to always uphold man-women relations as integral to a character’s (or anyone’s?) sexuality and identity.

In general, my impression when reading the book was that Eisner solely wants to look at identity or group belonging as the site of oppression, and doesn’t want to give any attention to the ways that man-woman relations themselves may be relatively valued, legitimized, and enforced over same-gender relations. I can understand the reluctance to look at those processes, since bi people’s potential engagement in man-woman arrangements is often used to deny their sexualities and the possibility that they could face any problems, or even an intensification of problems in some areas over lesbians or gay men. But these processes are still an important part of patriarchal gender systems, and need to be part of the analysis. I don’t have a good quote for it, but this one might suggest a bit of that line of thought: 

The idea of passing as an act of disguise presumes an essence of identity. Without a "true core," a disguise becomes impossible, for the very meaning of disguise comes from the discrepancy between what one "is" and what one is "seen" and "understood" to be. However, instead of being an essentialist notion, passing can subvert these presumptions by showing, in practice, that appearances--including one's very body--are no guarantee for the "truth" of one's identity. From this point of view, passing becomes particularly useful in demonstrating the way in which all identities and appearances are socially constructed, the way identities are written into our very bodies, and the enormous fragility of these constructs themselves.

In the case of bisexuality, we might look at society's insistent attempts to naturalize both homosexuality and heterosexuality, appealing to bodies, genes, hormones, and brains in order to establish that "this" (the sexuality in question) is inborn, natural, and immutable. Under this logic, one is either "born" gay or "born" straight, and thus any performance of their desires is "true to its nature." Being in a same-gender relationship presumes homosexuality, and being in a different-gender relationship presumes heterosexuality, because one's relationship choices are understood to reflect one's inner essence. Bisexuality— and bisexual passing—short-circuits this circular logic by showing that “acting gay” or “acting straight” does not necessarily equate with “being gay” or “being straight.” It allows us to distrust visual presentations and to deconstruct claims of inner essences. In this way, bisexuality may again be one way out of rigid identity constructs, a way of resisting both the lines of separation imposed by them and the hierarchies built upon them.

That’s nice, but you actually don’t need to imagine that same-gender acts stem from a different innate character in order to condemn them, or to institutionalize heterosexuality to the detriment of other pursuits. You don’t need naturalized concepts of essential heterosexuality and homosexuality in order to have a “hierarchy” among social arrangements and practices. In fact, ambiguity between subjects and the inability to finally “prove” that a person is one way or another can actually be beneficial to oppressive systems. When there’s ambiguity, more people can come under scrutiny and face demands to continuously prove themselves by conforming to gendered expectations or distancing themselves from marginalized subjects and practices.

That goes back to my original complaint that bi theorists focus too much on minority sexual discourses. Man-woman sexual relations and kinship can be institutionalized (while same-gender ones are stigmatized or denied) without any reference to “heterosexuality” as one of multiple sexual orientations. It does NOT need a corresponding “homosexuality.” The “gay-straight binary” is not a crucial linchpin within systems of gender. These discourses on sexual orientation do exist and do have more institutionalized backing now, so that more people are now forced to engage with them at some points. But I still don’t see them as really universal or fundamental to gender/patriarchy overall. I think the exclusive focus on discourses of “sexual orientation” leads to distorted analysis, because there’s just more going on in society.

There were just so many things they said that I objected to, and I really just don’t agree with their whole approach.

Although, I was originally complaining about another paper I was reading, which seems to be a Master’s thesis (although that’s hard to believe, because it’s so bad). It’s “The Bisexual To Be Corrected: Interrogating The Threat And Recuperation Of Women's Femme Bisexuality,” which can be found here. This was one part that I thought was especially... lackluster:

As several women I interviewed point out, heteropatriarchy needs people to be monosexual, or attracted to only one gender, in order to neatly hierarchize. It is rather difficult to maintain the disenfranchisement of a group if that group is incoherent, with its members presenting in different ways that shift, slip, and take on a variety of meanings. The notion that women can be attracted to men, women, and other genders simultaneously is a threat, because it points to the fact that perhaps masculinity and femininity, men and women, are not such polar opposites at all... and if men are not the powerful, aggressive, dominant opposites of women, why should they be at the top of the hierarchy? If masculinity is not the opposite of femininity, then perhaps all men are more intimately related to femininity than they would like to think. This line of thought destabilizes the patriarchal order, so monosexism and biphobia punish bisexuals for their attraction to multiple genders—and more specifically, for destabilizing the gender binary. Bisexuality must be erased, invisible, and invalid because it threatens core values of patriarchy that organize and define our culture. [...]

Again, this relies heavily on the idea that clarity between groups is necessary for hierarchy, and that ambiguity is automatically destabilizing rather than beneficial. (Like, not only does ambiguity extend the circulation of the power-effects of these discourses among more subjects, as Storr would say, but it also provides a measure of flexibility to the system: if you can’t condemn and/or recuperate something using one approach, you can try a contradictory approach.) Even beyond that, the idea that you need “facts” and “consistency” in your oppressive ideology is obviously baseless. The author’s understanding of heteropatriarchy is again focused only on categories of people, even though behavior itself can be regulated (and categorized), and everybody’s behavior is subject to regulation within systems of gender. While I think that gender dualism is very relevant to how bisexuality is understood, my thinking is more that bisexuality won’t be a non-issue until gender dualism is undermined, and less that the very existence of bisexuals inevitably results in the undermining of gender dualism. This paper also seems guided by the goal of uncovering intrinsic and maybe unilateral subversiveness in certain groups of people, and I’ve grown kinda w(e)ary of that.

[ryuichirou]

Hi! So a friend of mine love your stuff and especially the nsfw one retwetting him all the time and it shocks me a bit cuz I have the impression it’s a thing like another for her but at my eyes it’s similar to porn (I’m a straight dude) and as I thought I understand while reading your tumblr you’re a girl who like girl (like her) so I asked myself what do you think about all this yaoi/hentai thing? Like are you excited about that or it’s just for fun and you don’t sexualized penis? 1/2

And at the opposite why don’t draw shojo or even yuri where you can more identify you?  I’m really trying to understand ^^’ Have a great day! 2/2 

-------------------------------------

Hi!

I’m very flattered that your friend likes my drawings! <3

And I appreciate that you decided to talk to me about this topic and not just be judgmental like a lot of people do. It’s always good when a person tries to do some research before making conclusions, so I’ll try to answer your question to the best of my abilities, but please keep in mind that I’m mostly speaking out of my own experience + things that I observed over the last ~10 years. You can ask your friend too! Maybe her opinion is different than mine :)

This… turned out to be a long read, so please bear with me. And pardon me if my English sounds broken.

Slash (in a shipping sense) and BL (Boys Love) are not 100% the same thing, but in a lot of ways they work similarly: it’s a subgenre that is popular predominantly among women. It is usually (but not always) is written by women and for women. It’s a known fact that BL started as a way for female manga artists to portray romance the way they wanted without being “stuck” in unfair gender stereotypes and tropes they needed to meet. BL/Yaoi gave them freedom to express different ideas, different scenarios and types of relationships without feeling obliged to create a certain narrative or to play a certain role. Of course, this was the very beginning, and BL as a genre evolved over the past 50 years.

Slash, as I already mentioned, is similar to that in some ways, because the main focus of slash fanworks is always, well, relationships. It’s all about the chemistry characters have with each other and possible scenarios these two can have, whether it is the canon universe or an alternative universe. Just a game of “what ifs”, so to speak.

So to me personally, the focus here isn’t the fact that these characters are both men, but the fact that characters have fun and interesting relationships that I want to explore.

But the thing is, it’s very difficult to find even one well-written female character, and it’s even more difficult to find at least two well-written female characters, and it’s almost impossible to find two female characters that have a good and entertaining chemistry and are “shippable” together. The “pool” of personalities and tropes related to them is also much smaller with female characters, and there are a lot of tropes that I love and don’t usually see portrayed with them. As much as I want to have as many girl-ships as boy-ships, it’s impossible if there is neither chemistry nor fun characters to play around with…

I can’t even read yuri-manga nowadays, because it’s always the same 1-2 tropes, the same school-based scenario and the same types of characters all the time. It’s (as opposed to yaoi lol) is often catered towards men and has some male-gazey stuff. So yeah, of course this is me being extra picky when it comes to yuri and femslash, but I can’t really read yuri anymore, unless it’s written by a woman and isn’t based in school. You can call me a hypocrite for that haha.

When my heart and soul are craving some femslash content, I often just… genderswap characters and sigh with delight and happiness lol With SnK it’s different though, it’s one of the best titles when it comes to female characters and ships, and I’m having lots of fun with them. That’s why I post one sfw (not porn) drawing with them per week rn on my main accs.

Back to the topic.

A lot of girls explore their own feelings and personality traits when they ship. And a lot of them just play around with different scenarios and find out what’s interesting to them and what isn’t.

On one hand, you can relate to a male character and don’t feel the pressure a female character would feel. Or you can relate to a male character because he’s much more well-written, nuanced and interesting. On the other hand, you can ditch trying to relate to someone altogether and just enjoy the romance as a very nosy bystander lol. A win/win either way.

When it comes to lesbians, I think the lack of good femslash content is one of the reasons it’s much easier to feel a bond with a m/m ship. Another reason is relationships you build with other shippers around you. A lot of couples I know used to ship stuff together or even roleplay m/m scenarios. A lot of people discovered their sexuality because of that, a lot of them were able to explore it and accept it.

And if we’re talking about nsfw stuff, I personally (!!!) don’t find penises sexy and don’t find men sexy. I’ve never been attracted to a man and irl gay porn isn’t exciting to me. Well, any irl porn…  I wouldn’t necessarily say that my nsfw drawings are arousing to me, unless there is a specific context that is personal. In my particular case, it’s just another extremely fun subgenre that fascinates me. Maybe it’s a different type of arousal haha I’m not sure how to explain it. But imo things that I draw barely look like real porn so…

But some people do find these things hot and that’s great! I’m happy if people like my nsfw stuff this much.

But in my opinion, it’s mainly the association with personal stuff that does the trick. If we’re talking about someone who isn’t generally attracted to penises, that is.

And to answer your last question, I do draw yuri/femslash from time to time! I have a lot of Shingeki w/w ships that I love, I genderswap my favourite m/m ships from time to time. Sometimes I even draw nsfw with them, but I never post it. I have complicated relationships with it because it’s more identifying to me and more, uh, real.

It’s an ongoing process, who knows, maybe one day I’ll be more comfortable to post this kind of stuff and less greedy about it haha. But right now it’s too personal and self-indulgent for me to share.

But for now you all will have to look at Levi riding 100500 dicks lol

[thesharondefenseleague]

mlm imo werent sexualized to the degree that wlw were in most canon media mostly because of the male gaze. Gay and Lesbian relationships or moments got very limited representation. One was probably more sympathetic but also heart breaking like say brokeback mountain. One was explicit but depicted as grotesque or twisted or perverted or immoral in some way. And the last version was the titillating version. In western media because of the assumed straight male gaze lesbians making out to titlate guys was a common thing like say in Jennifer's body. The equivalent of that with guys wasnt really that common not in western media. Not that wlw couldn't like that content but it was made to be fanservice for men .

So thats what I kind of mean by wlw were sexualized at least in western media. This equivalent with mlm in fandom never really existed they never made out for girls to find hot in the same way. It was never marketed like oh look hot guys making out. Fandom did that but not canon.

As for comic book men being sexualized kind of. There is definitely the unrealistic beauty standards but theres that debate of was it for the purpose of titillating women? Or a result of toxic masculinity putting this unattainable unsustainable goal for men. Maybe both? But both in comics and the movies they are based on the posing and clothing and moments with women get made to clearly sexualize them . It especially ovbious with comics with them twisting their bodies so their boobs and butts are jutting out. Or like movie moments like Bruce landing in Natasha's clevage. Or angles where you are staring down a female character's shirt or she has a boob window for some contrived reason. Or just reasons to give full page spreads of them in skimpy clothing.

Its rare men get depicted like this or posed like this. And when they do it often stands out because its not the norm. It's something unique. Not true with men. Even in form fitting spandex they are often posed and framed to make to make them look powerful or intelligent or to reveal things about their character.

Again not that men never get sexualized or that fanservice is always bad. Or that its not a concern that men are having these terrible body image issues. But just that for women for the sexualization its so pervasive and constant was my point.

Its just as bad in wlw in canon as it is for women in relationships with men in canon when it comes to that sexualization but i hear so much more about the problems about the wlw ship than the mlw ship. Like to use DC as a example i hear so much about how people sexualized or mishandle harleyivy but compared to that i hear very little about batcat in comparison even though Catwoman is often just as sexualized in that ship.

As for misogyny in shipping wars yes it definetly exists and is a problem as is racism and homophobia. But my issue is mostly that the problem isnt because the main popular ships are mlm. But so often I see the argument framed that way.

Like shipping wars existed between m/w ships and still do today. And they are still often pretty misogynistic towards the woman in the other ship. I don't even have to look at other fandoms I remember Steggy vs Starton getting real ugly.

Mysogny in fandom doesn't uniquely pop up when mlm are the more popular ship. Its often just as bad in fandoms where m/w is the popular ship. But people just bring it up alot more they make it bout valuing the men over the women .

Well i mean that goes both ways you could say its homophobic for valuing the straight ship as better than the gay one or liking it more. But either way its stupid they dont care bout sexism or homophobia only that their ship is more popular.

Thats the sentiment of all ship wars the gender dynamics and racial make up change nothing. Nothing except the bullshit you use for the ship war.

The problem is that people are being homophobic and mysogynistic and racist not just in regards to fictional characters but towards real people just to win a ship war. It comes out so easily. Thats the problem imo.

Mysogny for example i think isnt discussed as much when its a m/w vs m/w ship war or drama because as both ships have women it can't be used to slander the other ship. But when its drama between fans of a m/m and m/w it comes out alot again not because anyone really cares but because now because one ship lacks a woman it can be used as fodder for what people actually care about. Tearing down the other ship.

Again not that mlm fandom doesnt have mysogny. They definetly do. But they aren't mysogynistic because they ship two guys together. Thats not proof they hate women. Having a ship with women isnt proof that you aren't sexist towards women. There might be homophobia in fandoms of mlm ships and mysogny in fandoms of m/w ships.

But in the drama between a m/w and m/m ships that doesn't get brought up because no one cares if that problem can't be used to show that someone only doesn't ship your ship if they are bigoted against it. Who cares about misogyny if your ship is two guys? Who cares about homophobia if your ship is straight?

No one because they cared about the popularity of their ship not the actual issues.

Gonna under under the cut for length again.

This is a lot to read so I'm gonna respond paragraph by paragraph and hope for the best in terms of comprehension.

When it comes to media made about the LGBTQ+ community, you have to keep in mind when it was made, who made it, and who was it made for. And that it's been shown that straight women have had the same reactions to mlm content as straight men to wlw content. QaF was dumbfounded to find that the majority of their audience was straight women when the show's sex scenes were 95% between two or more men and yet that's what they ran with because hey, it got the views. The views of mlm and wlw content in the mainstream media before then was minimized, despite how fucked a lot of the other content could be. If by "most canon media" being directed at the male gaze being summer blockbusters, and more specifically comic book movies, then sure. If we step out of that box, then not really. The film examples you chose are interesting because BB is portrayed exactly how the author of the original short story wrote it which was meant to be heartbreaking since it was a tragic dramatic piece while JB has a woman who wrote and another woman who directed it while purposefully trying to allow to actress to have a level of sexuality without exploiting her as past directors have (also neither of the main characters are lesbians - one is bi, the other I think is straight but maybe questioning?).

The sexualization of wlw in modern western media is definitely a thing. I mean, the first Iron Man film has stewardesses on the private jet pole dancing if I remember correctly. It took until 2016 to stop sexualizing Scarlett in every movie: the changing scene in IM2, the lowered zipper in A1, the ass shot in Cap 2, the boob faceplant in AoU (in your third paragraph, but mentioning it here anyway). It's a joke that you know when a man directs a wlw indie film during the sex scenes. But the mlm equivalent did exist alongside it, and it's what kicked off the century.

Comics and their movies were always for men. The male bodies are male wish fulfilment for their physical appearance. The women are male wish fulfilment for their dream girls. Funnily enough, one of the least sexualized women in comics I've ever read is Sharon. She's rarely, if ever, drawn to be sexualized for the audience. I'm not even sure she's even been in those swimsuit issues Marvel did years ago. And it shows heavily that Marvel struggles to know how to appeal to women without being aggressively in your face about it. The best example of them appealing without pandering is WV, and the worst is the group shots the Russos did in IW and Endgame, especially the latter.

But the men get those poses in the movies too. Thor bathed shirtless for no reason in TDW. There's a scene in Endgame dedicated to talking about Steve's ass. Pratt in GotG. Rudd in Ant-Man. Most actors are expected to look good shirtless and put themselves through intense shit to look that way. So do the women, but they aren't doing it to have the glamor shots of their muscles. And the MCU is not the only film franchise like this. Most, if not all, franchises with majority or entirely male leads expects them all to look like bodybuilders. And I'm gonna take back that it's just for the male audience, because these bodies are meant to appeal to women who are intended to thirst for these actors too. They think these bodies is what will bring women to the theaters.

None of this will change, as you say, that women's sexualization is "constant and pervasive". The film industry is just a part of the larger whole of media. Television and advertising have a treatment of women that's beyond whatever you or I say because there are decades worth of shit to go through that would take dozens of essays worth of writing to fully divulge beyond "please stop it's gross".

Now DC is a whole other ballgame. They're pretty infamous for their artists' sexualization of heroines and villainesses. Harley, Ivy, and Selina are definitely pretty bad, but when I remember what I've seen drawn of Kara, Kori, or sometimes Barbara... But outside of one artist, I think Harley and Ivy as a couple have been drawn tamely. Can't say the same for Selina, because they just can't not draw every part of her body even when she's fully clothed.

I think it's hard not to talk about fandom misogyny outside of m/m ships because of how often popular m/m shippers have rooted their shipping into misogyny. And even with m/f ship wars, a lot of the time the "faulted" character is always the woman when majority of the time it's the man who sucks. I don't get why everyone is fighting for who should kiss Steve because Steve sucks and they'd be better off without him. But because Steve is the object of affection for our fave, we have to fight off everyone else.

Don't look at other fandoms for m/f ship wars. We don't appreciate how tame we were, even at our worst. I'm serious, I've seen so much worse.

I think why the topic of misogyny comes up more with m/m ships is because they follow a similar principle of the male characters being more developed in canon and fanon so it's who people gravitate towards.

There is definitely layers of homophobia in fandom, but there's many versions of how we see it. Homophobes who won't ship anything that's not m/f. Homophobes who ship m/m but won't support IRL rights. People who love m/m but abhor f/f, and vice-versa. The shippers who use them for personal fodder. But the sexism is more prevalent than the homophobia. And the racism way more than both combined.

And it does cause a lot of ammo, and much of it severely unjustified, in ship wars. Literally the bullshit I've seen pulled out of thin air to accuse Sharon of not being worthy because someone said she's a racist for [they literally had no reason just called her one because we said Sam and Sharon are friends because they are] and other nonsense.

The real world repercussions of the homophobia, the sexism, and the racism in fandom... there's just so much. Like we are all still people, and yet we decide because we hide behind screens to be antagonistic, and use homophobic, sexist, and racist shit to attack each other over ships just because we want to paint the other person as crazy, I guess? If you can't see that there are no enemies in ship wars and that the other side is still people, maybe you need to sit out and log off. It's baffling how often it still happens to people. Then it's no longer about ships, it's about who is an asshole.

I will say that Steve and Peggy vs Steve and Sharon is probably the only m/f ship war I've seen where misogyny is talked about. Is, not was, because it still is. Both sides call the others misogynistic. I don't think either side is, but you can see in individuals. Those who tweeted at a certain actress that she was a slut for kissing her costar certainly are though.

You are right that shipping m/m isn't inherently sexist. But tearing down women in those ships to prop up m/m has made me stop shipping certain characters altogether. People, seriously, we don't have to justify why we like them! We can just like them! And other characters can still exist! It's never been that deep.

And you're right, the popularity of the ship helps people ignore any deeper issues within them and this is a power used to silence valid criticism if it pops up.

(I hope I answered everything well for you.)

~Mod R

[justfinishedreading]

I started October thinking ‘man, I have so many manga to review I’m going to be posting stuff every other day!’. Didn’t happen.

A Bride’s Story, Volume 1, by Kaoru Mori

This manga is set in nineteenth-century central Asia, along the Silk Road, it’s the story of a twenty-year-old woman sent from her nomadic tribe to marry a twelve-year-old boy in a settled clan. They arrange the marriage in order to maintain family bonds between the two households.

This was never going to be an easy read but let me start with the positive; visually A Bride’s Story is utterly beautiful, Kaoru Mori draws with a level of detail I have never before encountered in manga. Written literature is often placed above graphic novels with the excuse that there’s more artistry and depth when a world is bring created solely through vast amounts of words rather than images, and yet here is a case where literature could never compete. The written word could never compete with Mori’s exquisite illustrations of nomadic dress, patterned carpets and wood carvings. In A Bride’s Story we get a full visual experience of a culture and way of life that is now rare.

Story-wise this manga falls neatly into the ‘show, don’t tell’ approach of storytelling: lesser mangas would have the characters openly and plainly discussing themes, telling the audience exactly what they should think and what they should take away from the book, but A Bride’s Story presents this time and culture in a neutral way, with both negatives and positives alongside each other, leaving the reader free to assess their own feelings.

Spoilers ahead

Amir, the female protagonist, is warmly welcomed into her new husband’s family. When we think of a young woman having to marry a child in our minds the situation is horrific, to not be able to choose your own husband and on top of that to be forever tied, socially and legally, to a child is the sort of thing made for tragedy. Luckily for Amir her new husband, twelve-year-old Karluk, is good-natured and is full of admiration for his wife. Amir came from a nomadic tribe, she can shoot rabbits with a bow and arrow whilst ridding a galloping horse, she knows how to travel the lands, rear sheep and skin animals. Karluk sees her like a hunter, almost like a warrior, and he sees her like a mother in the way she frets and worries about his health and looks after him.

Amir is lucky because her new family openly accepts her and they view her differences with curiosity and wonder. They are a large family who have created a safe, happy home and together they work to keep it in peace. So the fears that the reader might imagine about an arranged marriage with such an age gap are not necessarily the ones that appear. The antagonists are actually Amir’s own clan, who realize that there’s a potentially more advantageous match to be made and intend to remove her from her current situation and marry her off to someone else.

Another nice surprise is that although this is a patriarchal society in which men make the life-changing decisions, we do a great character in the matriarchal grandmother of Karluk’s family, who displays a strength and resolve that even the men from Amir’s clan revere.

Onto the negatives: there’s a scene in which Amir is telling Karluk to strip naked because out in the desert, in a yurt, it is common practice to sleep nude because it gets very cold and it is warmer to sleep skin to skin. Karluk is clearly uncomfortable with this. Amir’s naked breasts are exposed and sexily drawn. In the next panels we see that sleeping naked together makes Karluk think of lambs sleeping snuggled to their mothers and for him there is nothing sexual in this experience. While the scene is implying that their relationship is more of mother and child, it is still a shock to see Amir’s naked adult body, and it makes us wonder what will happen when Karluk becomes physically more sexually mature but not necessarily mentally mature.

Japan has a deep-rooted obsession with sexualizing youth, it is something that comes up often in manga, anime, literature and media, and I’m always weary of when it might be sneaking its ugly head in more subtle ways. For example a couple of months ago I watched Beastars, which is a anime about anthropomorphic animal-humanoids (e.g. like Zootopia) and while I enjoyed the anime, there was something disturbing about the central couple; a wolf and a bunny rabbit. Compared to the large size of the humanoid wolf the small humanoid bunny looked child-like. The size thing and species thing is done to create sexual tension between the large scary wolf and the cute sweet little bunny, but there was something about the bunny’s small yet sexually developed form, in a school girl uniform, next to an adult-looking man, which just rang alarm bells. Interestingly I think the manga handles this better as the bunny’s body isn’t drawn in such a sexualized and realistic way as in the anime. In the anime there are moments where there is definitely a subtle catering to paedophilic appetites, especially as issues of uncontrollable desire and danger and predator and prey are brought up.

Back to A Bride’s Story, I don’t feel that this is a book that encourages or excuses paedophilia, it is presenting us, in a neutral way, with things that would have happened at the time. When Karluk presents his wife to some distant family members they are shocked, not with the fact that Karluk at age twelve is already married but because a twenty-year-old bride is considered an old bride. The custom is to marry women off young so they have longer to produce children. At the back of the book in the Author’s Notes Mori writes that women would normally be married at the age of 15 or 16, and beside this comment the author has drawn a picture of a young bride, with the following remark “Hey you! Yeah, you, big guy, looking at her like that! Let’s step out into the hallway and have a talk!” So while there’s no direct comment about paedophilia or the sexualization of youth, this one comment does hint that the author is aware of the issue in society, past and present.

One of the things that I am looking forward to in the series is that it will not centre just on Amir and Karluk’s relationship, it seems that other volumes will introduces other bride’s stories, including women who are lesbians or bisexuals and women who perhaps do not identify with a female gender. There is a secondary character in volume 1 called Smith, an Englishman who is studying the culture and customs of Central Asia and I believe that as he travels to different countries this may be how new storylines are introduced to us.

One difficulty I had in reviewing this manga was that I kept wanting to say it is about people from a specific country, however nowhere in the book does it say in which country the action takes place. In a way this is a western problem, it is an understatement to say that many, many a problem has arisen from the West’s desire for defined borders in countries where, at the time, it was not common to have them, places where tribes moved about depending on the seasons and trade. So after some brief research I believe this book explores the cultures of Mongol Nomads, of countries such as Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan that make up Central Asia, and with the potential of exploring influences from neighbouring countries such as China, Russia, Iran and Afghanistan. In the Author’s Notes she also mentions being interested in the Caucasus region of Central Asia, so that may also be countries like Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia, and the Caucasus Mountains which create a natural border between Eastern Europe and Western Asia.

One thing is for sure: since A Bride’s Story follows the path of the Silk Road, the crossroads from which Europe and Asia traded, it promises to be a wonderful melting pot of traditions and ideas.

Review by Book Hamster

[thenightling]

LGBT+ Neil Gaiman characters

All right.  Let’s begin.  This is a long list so I’m bound to accidentally leave a few out.  Feel free to correct me if you think of one or two I may have forgotten to list.

April Spink and Miriam Forcible from Coraline (couple.)  

Angela (Lesbian). 

The character Neil Gaiman created for Spawn is Angela.  Angela is now owned by Marvel.  Angela is a lesbian in a loving relationship with a transwoman named Sera.

Salim and The Jinn from American Gods (Couple).

This relationship got nominated for a GLAAD award.  

Sam Black Crow in American Gods (Bisexual)

Snow White (Lesbian) Snow White (Yes, the fairy tale character) is the lesbian protagonist of The Sleeper and the Spindle, which is a sort of crossover fanfiction of Snow White and Sleeping Beauty that Neil Gaiman wrote as a short story.

Captain Shakespeare in the film adaptation of Neil Gaiman’s Stardust (Gender nonconforming.)

His sexual preference is ambiguous but he loves feminine, soft, and pink things including womens clothing, hairdressing, and theatre. He also leads a band of cutthroat pirates who follow him loyally so there is that.    

Loki (Loki)

There’s Loki in Neil’s book on Norse Mythology.   Loki also appears in American Gods and The Sandman.

There’s also quite a few LGBT+ characters in Neil Gaiman’s Sandman, which include (but are not necessarily limited to):

Paul and Alexander Burgess (male couple).  

It should be noted that Alexander and Paul were clearly in an open relationship (Polyamorous?) in the 1960s (With Alexander Burgess likely being panasexual) and they are now exclusive to each other by the end of Sandman: The Wake.

Judy (lesbian). 

Judy was, unfortunately, phyiscally violent with Donna and it cost her the relationship.  Judy died along with several other character at a diner when John Dee (Doctor Destiny) got a hold of Morpheus’ dream stone.

Donna AKA Foxglove (lesbian). 

Donna is Judy’s ex-girlfriend but she ultimately found happiness with Hazel.  

Hazel (lesbian).

 Hazel had a one night stand with a man that resulted in pregnancy. She did not really enjoy it and now she and Donna (Foxglove) raise the baby together after having overcome many relationship issues.  The baby was named after Wanda (the transwoman character).  Since the baby was a boy they named him with Wanda’s deadname to remember her (Personally I think Wanda should have just been his middle name. Wanda hated the name Alvin).     It should be noted that Donna and Hazel’s love story (which starts in Sandman: A Game of you) got a spin-off comic called Death: The Time of your Life and that comic won a GLAAD award for representation in the mid-90s.    

Cluracan (Bisexual.  Possibly panasexual by modern standards.),

Wanda (Transwoman). 

Desire (Genderfluid and panasexual).    Desire is the living embodiment of desires, good and bad desires.  One moment they might want your death, the next they’re helping save the universe.  Desire can be male, female, both, or neither at will.   

The Corinthian (gay), 

John Constantine  (Bisexual.) Though not originally created by Neil Gaiman he was written by Neil Gaiman in a few stories.  Including his appearance in Sandman.

Lucifer Morningstar. (Complicated.) Lucifer Morningstar (like all of Neil Gaiman’s angels) is depicted as having no true biological gender in both The Sandman comics and in Lucifer’s own solo comics.  Lucifer presents as male and uses male pronouns.  He self-identifies as male but many other angels don’t really consider themselves as male or female despite how they present themselves.   

In the TV adaptation of Lucifer he is portrayed as having male and female lovers.  It should also be noted that in the comics Lucifer was physically modeled after biseuxal rock star, David Bowie.  

Mazikeen (Female identifying.  Bisexual) Mazikeen is a female-identifying demon portrayed as bisexual in both the TV show Lucifer and in Lucifer’s spin-off comics.  In Neil Gaiman’s The Sandman she was Lucifer’s lover.

Eve (Bisexual)

Eve appeared in Neil Gaiman’s Sandman and in Lucifer as well as American Gods.   In the Lucifer TV series she is portrayed as bisexual.

Note: Eve can change her age and appearance at will.   Sometimes she’s young, sometimes she’s old.  Sometimes she’s middle aged.  And though she’s often appeared as white (such as in Sandman), she is black in the newer Sandman Universe comics, and in Good Omens.  

Various angels.  (Diverse)

This one is a little complex.  Many of Neil Gaiman depictions of Angels do not actually identify as male or female though many of them present as male.  

Anatomically they are without gender unless they will it to be otherwise. Many of them have taken male and female Earthly lovers.   You can see Lucifer depicted without physical gender in Neil Gaiman’s The Sandman, and other angels depicted similarly in the Lucifer solo comics that spin-off from Sandman.  

Pollution from Good Omens (Non-Binary)

Aziraphale and Crowley in Good Omens (Couple. Demi panromantic celestial?)  

Neil Gaiman does not personally view Aziraphale and Crowley in Good Omens as gay because they only present as male but aren’t truly male or female by nature. He has also said he does not view a male and female presenting angel couple as straight either for the same reason.  He has said “I never said they are not queer.” just that he wouldn’t use the word gay for them.

I know that’s not all of them but there you go.   A list of LGBT+ characters created by Neil Gaiman.

And before I get a stupid hate-DM about how Wanda is “transmisogynist” because you read a Mary Sue article by someone who doesn’t understand context, understand this.   There was no Trans representation when Wanda was created.   She can’t follow a stereotype.  The stereotype didn’t exist yet.   She had not medically transitioned and ask yourself if you find her problematic just because she isn’t the conventional idea of feminine in her bone structure and height (Something even cis women have to struggle with).   Yes, Wanda died but it was to show the cishet readers of 1992 that her soul was always that of a woman.  There are still people today (even some Trans people) who don’t think you really count unless you fully medically transition. Wanda was scared of surgery but that shouldn’t matter.  She was always a woman and that was the point Neil was trying to make.

Yes, Wanda’s family was transphobic.  They were supposed to be seen as transphobic.  Also Thessaly AKA Larissa and George are NOT supposed to be seen as good people.  They are supposed to be seen as Transphobic. Thessaly is a pretty horrible person in The Sandman comics. She’s selfish and kind of homicidal.  She represents the cold, self-absorbed immortal Morpheus used to be like.   And before you try to argue “Just because Transphobia is real doesn’t mean Neil has to depict it!” (and yes, I’ve been given that argument while defending Neil Gaiman) ... Before you argue that, I want you to know something.

A Transman friend of mine was deeply moved by Wanda’s story because he went through similar.  His parents still deadname him and misgender him on birthday and holiday cards and gifts.   They never disowned him but they want to pressure him to “realize” he’s a woman.  When he saw that Wanda went through similar, especially at her own funeral, he no longer felt so alone.   Wanda may well have saved his life.  So yes, I will defend that “problematic” character who died nobility and who was used in the early 90s to teach cishet readers that Transwoman (medically transitioned or not) are still women.  Also, Neil is NOT accountable for how the story was drawn.  He’s not the illustrator.  So stop using the artwork to claim he’s homophobic.  A comic book writer essentially writes a script and then it is up to the illustrator to draw it as best they can.   By the way, the illustrator of Sandman: A Game of You (Where Wanda came from) was Colleen Doran, who was nominated for a Gaytastic Spectrum award in 2001.     

Stop looking for reasons to hate one of the only men who has been trying to give the LGBT+ community representation since the 1980s.

[jcmorrigan]

A while ago, I promised a Tales of Berseria headcanon dump, and this is all incredibly specific and based on my own reading, and I know no one else is going to agree with these exact interps or even the ships that built their foundation, but hey, here I go anyway

SEXUALITY/ROMANTIC ORIENTATION

Velvet Crowe: Lesbian. I first got an inkling she liked women in the prologue, when she was teasing around with Niko about “If you were a boy, I’d be in love.” True, she said it was a good thing neither was a boy at the time, but given how much the citizens of Aball drill ideas about marriage into Velvet’s head, it seems like a very heteronormative society and not that progressive. It’s a rural village in the middle of nowhere; what do you expect? Later on, Velvet would grieve heavily for Niko, in a way that I feel is reminiscent of a lover, and when it comes to Eleanor, she participates in “Women are mysterious creatures” rhetoric about her - the kind men usually say about women. Also has a fair share of soul-bonding moments with Magilou. I personally find more ship chemistry for her with any number of the women in ToB than any of the men.

Magilou: Bisexual. Seems to have an interest in Velvet. One particular victory screen has her joking with Phi about how if you can’t touch Velvet’s sword, everything else on her is fair game to touch. That’s wlw at least. However, her relationship with Bienfu of all things is where I get the impression she’s attracted to men - her talk of “punishing” him physically during nights at the inn read a little like innuendo to me. (Yeah, I just implied she has a sexual past with the Normin.) She also welcomes attention from all genders in general as to how amazing she is.

Eleanor Hume: WLW asexual. I don’t really have definitive subtext to point me toward ace, but I recall my own experience thinking I was morally upstanding because I wasn’t sexually active when my teenage peers were, and Eleanor, given her devotion to the Abbey and her pride in meeting its standards, just seems like she could have the same story: thinking she’s morally upstanding because she doesn’t act on any sexual urges, only to realize that’s because she doesn’t have them the way her teammates do. I already mentioned the subtext tension between Eleanor and Velvet - Velvet is the only person I can really pick out potential romantic chemistry for Eleanor with. Because of that, I’m not certain if she could also be attracted to men or not, as I don’t have any good samples.

Rokurou Rangetsu: MLM. I went back and forth between gay and bisexual for a while. For one, Rokurou has that scene when he talks about how women can break your heart worse than any danger in the field (and Eizen agrees), implying he’s had a past dating women. He also at least feigns interest in knowing about Velvet in the hot-spring bath. But this is underscored by a punchline of just wanting to make Phi sweat. Rokurou’s archetype of the heavy-drinking, optimistic idiot often comes paired with “womanizer,” but that wasn’t present here. And there was also the scene where he commented on how Velvet’s ragged outfit must be cold in Figahl only for her to scold him on ogling her - which I suppose can be read as him discreetly ogling her, but I see it more as him looking at Velvet in skimpy clothing and having the go-to reaction of how practical it must be in the weather. His chemistry with Eizen drips romantic to me, given how they share drinks and argue for fun.

Eizen: MLM. Same case as Rokurou - mentioned having his heart broken by women, and joined in on the Velvet-in-the-hot-spring discussion, but also expresses lots of affection toward Rokurou that was likely written to be platonic but comes across as very close. I’ve also seen the popularity of the Eizen/Zaveid ship, and given that Eizen told Zaveid his true name, which “can be seen as a confession of love,” there’s definitely subtext for that as well. So, again, whether gay or bi (or pan), I am not certain yet.

Laphicet: Bisexual. Obviously is attracted to the illusion of Edna and, to an extent, Velvet in the inn scene in Meirchio, but bonds with Videl intensely and devotes a major part of his life to making Videl’s dreams come true.

GENDER IDENTITY

Magilou: Transgender, identifies as very female. This was actually something I got an inkling on very early when some of her victory screens had her making jokes about her weapon in the way that some might view as phallic (I’m thinking especially of the one where Eleanor and Rokurou are talking about the benefits of short weapons, and Magilou says “Mine can be as long as I want!”). So I was of the mind that Magilou perhaps did possess a dick, and that actually got weirdly reinforced when she lifted her book-skirt to fluster Phi and he said “I wasn’t expecting that” - the joke is he was more interested in the books, but in the subtext, I’m reading that despite him definitely knowing what a cis woman’s nether regions would look like (Eleanor is his vessel), he didn’t expect something about Magilou’s lower half. So I was thinking either pre-op transgender or intersex (I’m not certain what types of gender reassignment surgery or artes would be available in Desolation). When all of a sudden, her backstory was revealed that as Legate Magillanica, she had a whole identity and a name that she erased (going so far as to say “Magillanica” is dead), as well as a background growing up in a conservative/religious household with Melchior, and, before that, being passed around to guardians who didn’t love her, leading to her feeling emotionally repressed. And all of a sudden it all fell into place: her story really parallels transitioning. So now I love to just complete the analogy. We know she was going by she/her pronouns at a young age in her traveling show, but we also know that she was exhibited at a “freak show” due to her high resonance. It’s possible she was also advertised as (insert a horrible slur about androgyny here). If she was already well-known going by she/her, Melchior would probably have wanted to keep that intact so as not to cause a stink in the Abbey. But, Melchior being the horrible person he is, he probably also thought Magilou was fit to stand as a legate where no other woman was because she was “male” to him. Anyway, by now, at least the other women on her team have seen her naked and have nothing negative to say on the subject - the party knows and they love her.

Laphicet: I actually see him as a little genderfluid based on a couple of throwaway things. For one, when the party discovers the “unicorn horn” (narwhal tusk), there’s a big discussion about how only a “maiden” pure of heart should be able to pick it up. Velvet offhandedly says Phi should pick it up anyway because it’s his quest. In the end, the myth was dismissed, but I rather like the thought that Phi sometimes identifies more female and therefore could fill the bill of being a maiden pure of heart. His/her personality also influences Innominat, whose outfit of choice is androgynous as far as gender-specific fashion conventions go (and also really spiffy). Most days, Phi is male, but some days, not as much. With his status at game’s end, it also feels a little more fitting to say that such a guardian of the world should be less adhered to one side of the binary.

NEURODIVERGENCE

Eleanor Hume: OCD and anxiety. It’s outright mentioned how she takes responsibility and guilt for everything, even things that have nothing to do with her and aren’t her fault - a telltale marker of OCD. She’s also introduced as being emotional and teased for being a “crybaby,” showing that ordinary situations can easily push her over the edge. I’m only talking main party, else Kamoana would be her own entry, but Kamoana canonically has panic attacks that manifest as fevers according to Mahina’s note, and can be “cured” with placebos. Eleanor’s arc is linked to Kamoana throughout, and the moment where this is revealed is one in which Eleanor is outlining her similarities to Kamoana and how that should mean Kamoana would resent her. I feel like this draws a pretty blatant parallel between Kamoana’s rampant anxiety and Eleanor’s, and how Eleanor jumped to the worst-case scenario only to be shown that the child she worries about has something very big in common with her that might actually be a bridge between them rather than a wall.

Eizen: Autistic. Infodumping is a major character trait of his, and there’s an entire skit dedicated to talking about how “picky” he is about his routine, needing to wear his clothing in specific ways and dock at the same place every time in Port Zekson.

[mikenewtonhateblog]

My oc’s aka too long of a gd post

The “BL” Crew (does not stand for boys love I’m just a moron who made that abbreviation before knowing what it stands for). My main crew and main series, a lot is a big WIP right now as I’m slowly redoing the first book and all the lore. Why? I love torture. Book is fantasy type but I won’t specify what.

Lacie, the protagonist. God tier idiot, bisexual bipolar depressed MESS, insomniac, former theater kid, doesn’t know what she wants out of life but currently it is not This(plot of book). Hot headed, impulsive, crude, rude, Mommy IssuesTM, would rather be taking a nap right now, rules are made to be broken, absolutely fucking FERAL, more bags under her eyes than the airport lost and found. 5’5, 130lbs, Aries, age 18, white as shit like literally the whitest human you have ever seen, strawberry blonde hair in a 2011 Hayley Willaims haircut with long bangs, the darkest brown eyes you’ve ever seen that stare directly into your soul. Lanky, no curves, body of a 12 year old boy but works out so she can and will kick your ass and thats a threat. Not human?

Josh. Soft boy, smart, Lacie’s cousin and only friend for like the first 18 years of her life, autistic anxious mess who’s special interest is anchient egyptian history, is in honors classes, despises math, passes out when his girlfriend looks too cute, just needs a hug. Can eat a whole carton of easy mac if left alone, whole wardobe is the same outfit just different colors/hoodies, sensory issues, seriously can someone give this guy a hug. 5’9, 150lbs, Pisces, age 18, mixed (half whatever flavor of white Lacie’s family is [they don’t even know its just some scandanavian shit and irish], and half mexican on his mom’s side), medium olive skin with freckles and moles, dark chocolate brown hair that’s a bit of a 2009 Beiber cut, warm brown eyes, not beefy, a lil thicc and self concious about it but squishy boys are GOOD. Gets bit by a werewolf so now he is one his mood on it is “thats a lot to unpack but let’s just throw the whole suitcase away”.

Zander. There is not one braincell in this man, himbo KING, pansexual dumbass with undiagnosed ADHD, no impulse control, head empty and full at the same time, PTSD, his fashion sense should be an actual crime, gets in fights to feel something, basic requirements for him to be attracted to you: kick his ass. Drinks his respect women juice, sees a folding table and must immediately launch himself on it, chaotic, cannot drive a car and will not, food aggression and eats enough for 3 people but never gains weight which is ILLEGAL, him and Lacie may be a couple.....but in this house we stan slow burn, he talks in caps and every sentence either ends with a question mark or exclaimation point, likes romcoms. 6’2, 190lbs, Sagittarius, age 19, austrailian roots and has the accent but is from [REDACTED FOR STORY REASONS], white, dorito shaped with long legs, blueish black hair that’s long and messy, dark navy eyes that match his hair, bigass neck scar from [REDACTED]. Not human

Peter. Gay dad friend who is TIRED of having to be in charge of a bunch of teenagers, only one with full functioning braincells, lowkey a genius who loves engineering, mixes magical technology with human technology because he likes to play god, is he ever sober? No one knows, will kill for a bottle of single malt, his fashion sense? Tastefully expensive suits perfectly tailored. Likes building his own weapons that no one else knows how to even use, generally non-threatening but can get scary if needed. 6’4, 140lbs string bean man, Scorpio, age 179 but looks early 30s, I know I said Lacie is the whitest human but he’s even paler like a literal sheet of paper with scandanavian roots/ancestors were vikings or some shit, blonde hair styled like 2013 Brendon Urie lmfao, light crystal blue eyes. He’s a vampire and was born one.

Danielle. Tiny, sweet, queen of girls supporting girls, comments on all her friends instagram posts with 20 emojis, LOVES fashion and has a wardrobe that would make anyone jealous, oozes feminine energy, only child and parents are in love still, gets exactly 8 hours of sleep each night and wakes up looking like a disney princess. Just because she is small and cute doesn’t mean you should underestimate her she WILL fuck your shit up. Quiet when angey which is terrifying. Josh is her bf and she loves him so much but also loves teashing the shit out of him. Legally cannot cuss, polite, used her high heels as a weapon once, speaks like 5 languages because studying them is her hobby, gardens, hugs everyone. 5’0, 110, Taurus, age 18, mixed (half french-american, half Korean-american), glowy skin always, PETITE frame aka the friend everyone can pick up when they hug, long past her waist curly brown hair, bright green eyes. She’s not fully human as she has fae blood in her and this gives her the ability to talk to and control plants. Flower crowns for everyone

Becca. Theater kid who would die to sing in Wicked and has the vocal range to do so, cannot wait to graduate and go to her dream college which she got into and a scholarship, closeted lesbian bc her whole giant family is extremely catholic and she feels like not dealing with it, “no boys allowed in bedroom” rule is her favorite joke, chill, middle child of 5 siblings and just wants some peace and quiet for ONCE. Her fashion sense is “I’m dropping subtle hints I’m gay but only to other gays”, has a black belt and took self defense classes. 5’6, 145lbs, Virgo, age 18, Latina (cuban and mexican mix), darker brown skin with light freckles over her nose, athletic build, eyebrows on POINT, bright caramel eyes, short light brown hair cut in a bob, has a tiny nose stud, always wears a blue friendship bracelet her gf made her. Human

Anika. Calling her a bitch/slut is a compliment, bisexual, a bit of a mean girl but she grows out of it give her time!!! Is always Too Much, the horny friend, favorite color is red so thats almost all of her outfits, loves to show off her body as much as she can because she’s hot and knows it and thrives in her own confidence. Her mom is literally like Regina George’s mom from Mean Girls but married a rich man 20 years older than her, Anika doesn’t know her bio dad but thats fine neither does her mom and her step dad is nice and does his best to be a dad. Becca’s gf, always hanging out at her home so Becca can get some quiet because Anika’s an only child and has a pool. 5’9, 135lbs, Gemini, age 18, white, long layered dark reddish brown hair, teal-blue eyes, swimmers body type (I normally do not mention bust size but she would want the internet to know she was blessed with big bahoogles so there you go), can sprint in heels. Half mermaid (boy was that a surprise considering her mom doesn’t know who her father is LOL)

Rex. Nb uses they/them he/him pronouns but honestly will respond to any, goth lite, only attracted to men and ace, can read minds so knows all your secrets, mischevious little shit, great friends with Zander and enjoys his dumbass thoughts and that he’s basically a human version of Jackass, wears too many rings, goth boots for kicking and fashion babey, always has the freshest memes and will not hesitate to roast in the group chat, hangs with the girls most of the time. Chaos god who loves making art, be gay do crime, skateboard and spraypaint. 5’8”, 165lbs, Leo, age 18, Native American, masculine frame, dark brown skin, blue eyes, firetruck red shoulder length hair that’s usually in a ponytail, knock-off gucci sunglasses just for judging their friends. Has magic in their blood so not entirely human and can cast spells and shit (don’t roast me its a wip and I’m doing my research)

Sam. Boho goddess, aromantic, makeup and nails are always instagram worthy, quiet and stoic type but losens up around close friends, Rex is her best friend, has some trauma and doesn’t want to talk about it, emotionally numbed out a bit and wants to purely vibe. Has seen some of the worst parts of humanity and wishes she hadn’t, finds no point in being bitter or resentful though because that won’t change anything, loves cats and once she moves out shes adopting one or three. Has wine aunt energy. 5’4, 200lbs PLUS SIZE QUEEN, Scorpio, age 18, Filipino (her parents are immigrants fun fact!), really olive skin sometimes has a grey/green tinge to it, dark brown almost black shoulder length hair, gold-hazel eyes. Sam’s the victim of a family curse that requires her to consume human hearts to survive, she can transform into a pretty scary looking being and uses this curse to hunt down pedoph*les, r*pists, murderers, and abusers. The less often she feeds the less human she looks, hence the constant grey/green tinge to her skin. 

Andy. Baby of the group, must be protected at all costs, 100% didn’t sign up to be in a friendgroup of 90% monsters but highkey loves it, trans, bi, anxiety MAXED, just wants to draw comics and cosplay spiderman, has to babysit his two younger sisters a lot because his parents are....not great, and as a result now knows all the lines to Tangled and The Little Mermaid. Big nerd energy, has to draw on everything including homework, gets inspiration for comics from his friends, awkward and socially anxious, drinks way too much tea and will accidentally steal your pens. Fears include: crowds, thunder, tall angry men, tiny spaces. Just trying his best. 5’2, 100lbs BEANPOLE BOY, Leo, age 16, white (irish and scottish roots), freckles absolutely EVERYWHERE, orangey red hair thats in desperate need of a haircut, chocolate brown eyes, braces, chronic nail biter. Human and kinda wishes he wasn’t.

That’s it for now if you read all this bless u thank u here is my whole heart. Please no discourse, literally these are fictional people I’ll never publish the books they go to.

[tenbees]

(1) hi!! this may be a really dumb question but you seem kinda knowledgable and i really want to learn bc i’m clueless. basically, i’ve always wondered what the purpose (for lack of better word) was behind lesbian femme/butch roles? like ik it’s historically pretty significant, but is there a particular “revolutionary” reason behind a masculine person and feminine person being paired together and it being such an iconic part of lesbian herstory? like ik that gender non-conformity is p important

(2) within women, specifically lesbians, especially as a way to signal to other women/lesbians that they are, well, lesbian. it’s also rebelling against assigned cultural and gender roles and the idea that femininity is required to be a “real” woman, and also mainly bc most people assume feminine women and girls are het. but like, there are some lesbians who are feminine themselves and mainly like other feminine women/lesbians. is this a “wrong” or incorrect/narrow minded pairing somehow?

(3) are feminine-presenting lesbians somehow “less” revolutionary than, say, a gnc bi or straight woman? and like, w the femme/butch complementary roles within lesbianism, is this to show that a masc/feminine pairing isn’t inherently hetero/doesn’t exclusively belong to het couples? are feminine lesbians who date other feminine lesbians betraying lesbian culture and appeasing straight men somehow just bc they want to be feminine for each other? i’ve just always wondered about this and

(4) i’m a woman who presents pretty feminine, although if it were up to me i’d just be like. casual feminine. maybe a snapback or sth. but i am attracted to other feminine women and i don’t particularly have a desire to “look good” for a butch/masculine-presenting woman in a sort of complementary yin and yang role/dynamic, i.e “strong butch and soft femme” stereotypes which we see often in the lesbian community. so i was curious about your thoughts on this. thank you and sorry for the spam! 🌷

😭 i’m such a bad person to ask any questions about butch/femme because tbh i don’t really get it.

i think the historical reason for the pairing is that there really was no model for lesbian relationships, so women defaulted to a relationship model that resembled heterosexuality–butches and femmes had to date each other, butches who were fucked by another butch were ridiculed and feminized, people who didn’t fit into either category were seen as outsiders and called kikis, butches had to pursue femmes, etc, but with a little more fluidity because people would sometimes have different roles in different relationships. i think this is a contentious thing to say because it implies that butches are like men but… i’m not sure how you could argue that a system where masculine people Have to date feminine people isn’t drawing deliberate parallels to heterosexuality? especially when people in that time period said that it was safer to be out in public when at first glance you looked like a man and a woman? and i don’t think saying that there are obvious parallels is the same as saying that butches Are men. butches and femmes will also talk about how they each play different roles in the relationship–the butch protects the femme, the femme is a safe place for the butch, the femme protects the butch by existing at her side as a ‘respectable’ looking woman, etc.

i don’t think it’s intended to show that masc/fem couples aren’t inherently het or to rebel against gender norms (although people will say that femmes are revolutionary because they perform femininity for women and not men which i do Not get because the world doesn’t care why you wear a dress & makeup so long as you do it)–people will talk about how they knew deep inside that they were always femme/butch, that they always felt drawn towards protecting feminine women, that they always wanted to give themselves to a masculine woman, etc. i don’t really get it lol and i think @a-real-lesbian-speaks said this mooonths ago, but when i see poetry about like… work boots next to stilettos or a butch needing the arms of a femme and a bunch of people saying that it made them emotional and they can relate so much, i feel the same way that i do when queer people talk about their gender identities tbh. it seems like some internal lesbian-specific gender experience that needs that yin/yang complement and i literally don’t understand when people talk about it, but there you go lol.

i think feminine lesbians disobey cultural standards more than gnc bihet women, but it is a weird question to me because calling one more revolutionary than the other sort of gets into… homosexuality as revolution, when it’s just something we’re born with and that is given this deviant, rebel status by society. feminine lesbians and gnc bihet women also deal with different problems, so it feels like comparing apples and oranges to me.

also, it isn’t narrow-minded to be a feminine woman attracted to other feminine women! butch/femme is a subculture that tbh has gained this weird revered status on tumblr. the amount of people who talk about it compared to the amount of people who actually participate in it is very disproportionate, at least from what i’ve seen. there are many, many lesbians who are neither of them and we can go be confused in our own little corner lol. and who you’re attracted to or choose to date shouldn’t be political anyway.