#also anakin is an unreliable narrator

[person25]

I saw somebody make fanart of Obi-Wan with a second padawan, it was an oc and their art was beautiful, but it got me thinking about the angst potential from Anakin’s perspective.

I mean, we all know anakin is one possessive bastard. How could Obi-Wan call someone else his padawan? That title is reserved for Anakin, right? Not anymore.

At least Anakin will always be Obi-wans favorite, right?…Until he hears Obi-Wan tell this new padawan they’re such a good listener, actually pay attention unlike his old padawan.

Let the self-doubt set in.

I mean, Obi-Wan hadn’t chosen Anakin, he was just kind of dumped on him. Obi-Wan chose this new padawan of his. How is Anakin supposed to live with that?

And if Anakin starts to distance himself from Obi-Wan, well…who else is to blame?

[tennessoui]

anakin should just cry on obi wan so that the old man can go through 7 stages of guilt for being such a fucking dumbass

to be fair to obiwan lmao anakin was literally married and supposedly in love with his literal wife like five minutes ago - that’s a pretty solid basis for assuming someone doesn’t love you back

[palfriendpatine66]

WIP Wednesday - (sad tooka cat au)

I’m kind of in a weird place writing but since we’re all swimming with Anakin thoughts here’s baby padawan Anakin in what’s quickly becoming my personal favorite work Gesi Means Peace

Obi-Wan was going to be so mad.

Anakin scrubbed at his prickling eyes as he made his way deeper into the maintenance corridors of the Temple. He was supposed to be learning control. But one small slip and he had Force pushed an initiate into the wall, knocking them unconscious and shattering the delicate glass artwork that had been on display.

No, actually, Obi-Wan wouldn’t be mad. Anger was the path to the dark side and Obi-Wan Kenobi, of course, had far more control than that. His Master would probably express his disappointment loudly, via lecture, over several hours.

Anakin preferred that option; it would be worse if his Master’s face got that pinched look that showed how hard he was working to maintain his perfect Jedi control, to keep his features arranged in a careful mask of serenity that hid just how frustrated he was with his Padawan. That Anakin lost control so easily - again. That he had such difficulty managing his emotions and following the Code.

Anakin wasn’t just embarrassed by his actions, he was afraid. Afraid that one day Obi-Wan would see the truth - that all his training wouldn’t be enough to turn Anakin into what a Jedi was supposed to be.

He continued deeper into the twisting maze of maintenance access, catwalks and machines that kept the Temple running. It was warm down here, and the heat and noise from the machinery was a comfort to him. The Temple was too cold, too quiet. He longed for the heat of home - something he hadn’t thought he would ever miss. He missed the rumbling noise of the market, the shops nearby, ships landing and taking off in the distance.

Anakin curled up on a platform tucked into a corner and pressed the heels of his hands into his eyes until he saw stars. Obi-Wan said it would take time. That he couldn’t expect to learn overnight, or even in a year, what the others had been learning since they could talk. That no one expected perfection of him, and all that he needed was to give his best.

But he didn’t dare ask the question that haunted his thoughts: What if his best wasn’t good enough?

[rose-of-red-lake]

Unreliable Narrator in the Sith Show

I have seen a few arguments that the Acolyte is a case of total unreliable narration, that it's a new Star Wars era of storytelling, a "sophisticated" show from the "Sith's POV," which is why the Stranger/Qimir seems so calm, balanced, and sure of himself. But don't worry - according to these opinions, the modern audience will be able to see through his lies, being astute enough to know that he's evil, without having to tell us directly. Because telling us directly is too much of a mustache-twirling villain trope, or something.

So is everyone on the same page? Did we all get this?

Naur, I don think so... because I have also seen a lot of odd defenses of the character, that he's not really as bad as the Jedi make him out to be, that he's not a Sith, and that he wants to be left alone as a rogue, without any allegiances, just doing whatever he wants, whenever he wants. I have seen people agree with his perspective, that the Jedi are the oppressors because they won't let him live how he wants. Someone even compared him to Mando with Osha as his Grogu. Man just wants a family without the government telling him how to live his lyfe. 😥

So if audiences are indeed smart enough to see through the unreliable narrator, why are they agreeing with him? Why are people sucked into his own perspective, which is Ayn Rand on steroids to my mind. Running through the galaxy, doing whatever you want? Okay, but look where that led. Once he wanted an acolyte to go out into the world and assassinate some Jedi, he isn't like Brendock or Dathomir witches anymore. That should have been a line, drawn, clear to the audience. But then the narrative goes back to extreme moral relativism. "Well, maybe the Jedi shouldn't have interfered..." or, "Maybe they were right to." So we have morally grey situations with a baddie POV mixed in, in a television show where we can't get inside people's heads? Okaaaay...Leysle with a Y. Good luck with that.

If this is all just unreliable narration, why is Sol so unsympathetic, unwilling to ask for forgiveness, even right up to the end? This just makes Osha look justified for killing him. The Dark Side doesn't even need to be "seductive" if Sol's actions were so bad. And I'm taking his actions that way because of what the showrunner said about him: Sol has a darkness in him that he can't control. And what was the content of this darkness, you might wonder? Well, he was being more like a "father" than a "Jedi" again according to Headland. Alright, why are those two roles mutually exclusive, at all? Doesn't her own mentor Feloni criticize Obi-Wan for not being enough of a father to Anakin?

But maybe the unreliable narration could come through with how the Order is portrayed in their scenes without Qimir. But nope, they're like the freaking police department in the Wire: cold, calculating, trying to cover things up. If it was an unreliable narrator, wouldn't we have a break in all of the bleakness that shows us, hey "Qimir is kinda wrong here." I don't think we do.

Beyond any of this, I don't trust this writer to write something as complex as a "Sith POV," or use unreliable narration effectively. I don't think she's experienced enough.

Not to mention, I don't think the showrunner gets the emotional turmoil of what its like to be a Dark Side user. They should be lost in their emotions, letting their emotions rule them, subject to constant turmoil, constant fear of losing what they have, and wanting more and more because of their greed. The unreliable narration should break at some point to show that, and it shouldn't be so subtle that it goes over people's heads. Moreover, a Jedi like Sol should be more sympathetic because they are at least struggling to suppress their inner Dark Side. Sol did nothing like what Anakin did. If he is truly acting like a overly-compassionate father, then he shouldn't refuse to ask for her forgiveness either. He shouldn't be dead in the mud, choked by his own daughter.

Goddamn this show is fucking bleak.

[lieutenant-teach]

‘Master & Apprentice’ book – a Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan story, featuring Rael Averross. From the outside, it looks like a quite Jedi-positive book – it’s written from Jedi’s POV, Jedi are protagonists. But during reading it’s clear that the book is haunted by typical for many Jedi-centric fics and books false takes; more specifically in this book, they are – shitting on the Jedi Council, ‘love vs attachment’ problem, ‘it’s not how the Force works’ problem, repeated fanon interpretations, ‘child-stealing’, and more.

Now on each of the points above. Spoilers ahead.

1.The Jedi Council is depicted (as per our ol’ nice familiar pattern) as full of bureaucrats who allow all bad things in the Galaxy happen (as they probably sip wine in the Temple scrolling holo-pads with space TikTok, I guess). And, of course, Qui-Gon is the only one who remains close to the Force as a True Jedi ™ should. “Qui-Gon knew the Council to be wrong about many things. He felt they’d allowed the Jedi Order to become a sort of chancellor’s police, rather than concentrating on knowing the Force. Yes, they were wise to refuse to rule—but unwise to simply accept the status quo. Short-sighted, to lose touch with the living Force by spending so much of their time and energy on enforcing laws that could as easily be left to civilian authorities. Immoral, to refuse to act against evils such as slavery.” I would be very glad to have it attributed to ‘unreliable narrator’, but I haven’t seen it debunked in the book by Qui-Gon himself or anyone else. So I conclude it’s supposed to be ‘the objective truth’.

2. Rael Averross is a very much clear foil of Anakin (was taken too old, has problems with attachments, dangerously reckless – had to kill his Padawan because he ignored the Council protocols). He’s also depicted as ‘so different from the other Jedi because he wears casual clothes & keeps his accent’ – bullshit. Depa Billaba also appears in the book and she wears her traditional make-up! Also others from different SW media have some markings of their cultures – Shaak Ti and Ahsoka wear Togruta headdresses, Luminara and Barriss have whole Mirialan outfits and tattoos, Quinlan also has Qiffar tattoos of his clan, and these are only the most prominent examples. Same as Ayala Secura keeps her Twi’lek accent – so again, Rael isn’t so special. Even within the Council – Mace and Obi-Wan have different accents, and Yoda has a whole different speech pattern.

Of course, the question of ‘love’ is touched heavily upon. Rael claims that the Jedi shouldn’t love – but at the same time he says the Jedi love their Padawans/friends/etc. Choose the stance you stand on, author – can Jedi love or not? Especially taking in consideration that Rael’s attachment to his mistake with his Padawan blinds him to the point he’s ready to sacrifice the planet’s people in favour of ‘righting’ his own past failure attributing it to Fanry. Also, I think Rael confuses ‘love’ and ‘fucking’, claiming Jedi are not allowed to fall in love. What did Obi-Wan say in TCW? “It’s not that we’re not allowed to have these [romantic] feelings, it’s natural”. The Jedi shouldn’t allow feelings cloud their judgement, that’s it. Either the author doesn’t understand it, or Rael.

3. In this book we read the whole prophecy about the Chosen One. Aaand it tells about ‘Jedi sins’ – again this idiotic idea from Legends that Jedi were at fault of their destruction! ‘It will bring balance of light and dark’ – it’s not how the Force works! It’s not Yin/Yang!

4. Dooku didn’t leave the Order because he disagreed with the Jedi! He left because he disagreed with the Senate! Come on, it’s right in the main media! It’s so fucking infuriating when official authors blindly repeat fanon interpretations.

And then some say ‘the books are printed, therefore canonical’. No, if they claim smth that is outright different in canon – they’re ‘paid fanfiction’, nothing more.

5. A weird moment when the child stealing argument is brought up, and not only Qui-Gon doesn’t refute it, but says he didn’t have any voice in choosing the Jedi way of life, although he loves it now. And it’s portrayed as sad and melancholic. So, in my eyes, this book proves that Jedi are ‘baby-stealers who indoctrinate kids’.

6. How old is Qui-Gon? Lucas says 60 in TPM. Wookiepedia – 48 in TPM. The book claims Liam Neeson’s age during TPM – 48, and is set 8 years prior to TPM, as Obi-Wan is said to be 17, so according to the book, Qui-Gon must be 56 in TPM. Who to believe?

The only point I LOVED without any qualms – how Obi-Wan began to hate flying. Awesome story!!!

[banjodroid]

It’s both hilarious and sad that the pattern of people anakin dislikes is only that he’s an incredibly unreliable narrator

Mace Windu is just the equivalent of a stressed highschool teacher whose principal is a little bit insane and perpetually works against him while at the same time trying to make him the NEW principal, and Ferus Olin, another padawan , was nice to anakin when he left the order and anakin was MAD about it like “ugh of fucking course he’s nice to me still trying to show me up” and dude saw through him like glass but he’s been totally chill about it. Ig the third can also be said to be obi-wan his father-teacher-brother-master but their dynamic is a whole other can of worms honestly

[dark--whisperings]

Tell me about Familiar Scars and Electric Hearts!! Btw I love your titles! They’re always so creative

Okay, the fact that this tag game uncovered A BUNCH of WIPs that I've actually made a ton of progress on then forgot about??? (thank you @palfriendpatine66)

Also fun fact about me, titles are my favourite part of the fic writing process!

'Familiar Scars and Electric Hearts' is another experiment with telling a story through alternating character POVs. This one also heavily leans into an unreliable narrator from both Anakin and Obi-Wan's perspectives, as they struggle with their assumed unrequited love for one another.

And, since I've got some of it written, here's a (very unedited) snippet!

The battle was a blur, but the realization was stark in Obi-Wan’s mind.  One moment he was viciously carving a path through a swath of battle droids, and the next he was utterly enamored by the way his former padawan gracefully danced across the battlefield utterly in his element, sweaty golden curls twirling around a handsome face filled with courage and determination. It had felt like love at first sight, but Obi-Wan knew better.  He was a fool in so, so many ways, but even he couldn’t delude himself in this case.  On some level, he had always known  that falling for Anakin with the weight of one thousand stars going supernova was inevitable. His distraction had earned him a blaster bolt to the shoulder, but Obi-Wan didn’t remember the pain of his searing flesh through the shock reverberating in his skull.   That had been only two weeks ago.  Two weeks that Obi-Wan had spent avoiding his former padawan at all costs.  Two weeks where every free waking moment had been spent in deep meditation attempting to somehow reconcile his newly discovered yet achingly familiar feelings within the boundaries of the code. Two weeks Obi-Wan had spent failing. 

[ahsokathegray]

This is for the Rexsoka shippers.

I’ve spent some time collecting my thoughts and wanted to make sure everyone is okay. We have a very small and very quiet ship, and an even smaller and quieter community. I won’t give my personal thoughts on the episode, but I did want to come spread some hope.

This is the World Between Worlds, not a flashback. It’s a dream or a vision or whatever you want to call it, but it was not a direct flashback. Speaking specifically about the Siege of Mandalore scene, it was inaccurate. Why? Not only because 17 (going on 18) years old Ahsoka was played by an actress younger than the character, but because Anakin wasn’t present for that battle. He was controlling the events here. He was recalling the Ahsoka he once knew, not the one that fought in the SoM, but the one that walked away from him — the one he better remembered. He simply placed a younger Ahsoka into a situation that 17/18 year old Ahsoka fought in. The Ahsoka that came back to him in season 7 of TCW? He didn’t know that version of her but for maybe a few hours. That wouldn’t be the version of her his mind would jump to. It would be the Ahsoka we saw from seasons 3-5, who is what that SoM live action portrayal of Ahsoka looks like.

And look at her lekku. Yes, they’re jarringly short, but they also only have 5 chevrons instead of the 6 we knew her to have in the final season of TCW. Therefore, this scene is coming from the point of view of an unreliable narrator in the form of Anakin. He’s seeing what he wanted to — what he remembered her to be. Not what she really looked like.

We see him in season 7 approaching her like the kid she used to be, not fully grasping how she’s matured in her time away. He can’t come to terms with it. This is Anakin’s view of her, always the student and unable to let her go. And line that up with him telling her she isn’t ready, that she’s gotten old, and calling her Snips. He overcorrected in his memory of her, back to the version of her he best remembered — back before he lost her.

TLDR; She was gone for a long time between seasons 5 and 7 of TCW. He didn’t know the Ahsoka that came back to him. And, again, it’s the World Between Worlds. Unless this was a flashback from SoM directly, then I refuse to let it hurt me any further and neither should you 💙🧡

[maeve-on-mustafar]

Wait, that's so interesting Brotherhood gets a bad rep? I thought the writer was one of the few writers who understood Anakin and was excited for his coming novel!

To be fair, I think the reputation of the Star Wars: Brotherhood novel specifically depends on what fan circles you travel in. The Star Wars lore dudes on YouTube love this book, and so do most of the Star Wars EU podcasts. Also, if you’re a fan of Anakin & Obi-Wan as a team, you’ll adore this book, as its very foundation is their relationship. The author of Brotherhood is Mike Chen, who is a proud fan of the Revenge of the Sith novelization by Matthew Stover, and it is very evident that Chen takes his character inspiration from Stover’s own uniquely intense “closer than friends, closer than brothers” take on the Anakin & Obi-Wan relationship.

From what I’ve seen, the criticism of this book comes mainly from pro-Jedi circles on Tumblr, particularly fans who dislike Anakin. I’m guessing it’s due to three main reasons: 1) this book is very pro-Anakin and runs on the belief that Anakin was always an unwanted misfit in the Jedi Order and always was very aware of that, 2) the book takes a more critical view on the Jedi’s involvement in the war and frames them in a more questionable light, and 3) this book is very, very anti-Mace Windu.

Personally, my biggest issue is with the anti-Mace stance of this book, as well as the argument Brotherhood makes that Mace Windu was one of the Jedi to always dislike Anakin. It makes zero sense to me, because I’ve listened to every interview with Mike Chen that I can get ahold of (I can rec some if anyone is interested, just ask me), and he doesn’t seem to dislike Mace Windu? He just noticed that Anakin is very formal and respectful in front of the Council in AOTC, and he takes this as evidence that Anakin never felt comfortable with the Council or Mace Windu.

It’s odd to me, because in AOTC, Mace is very supportive of Anakin? From giving him the solo assignment of protecting Padme to defending him to Obi-Wan to not even asking “WTF are you doing on Tatooine?” when Anakin FaceTimes him from there. Ignoring all of those moments in favor of concentrating on Anakin’s body language in the Council scene is missing the forest for its trees, IMHO.

But something the Jedi-Positive segment of fandom does that bothers me is insistently push this theory that Mace’s characterization is due to Anakin being an unreliable narrator, and this idea is proven false several times. First, early in the book, even Obi-Wan thinks to himself that Mace doesn’t like Anakin. Then we get a scene of Palps during a private meeting with Anakin basically saying, “Wow, Master Windu sure sucks, doesn’t he?”, and Anakin not disagreeing. There’s also a memory Anakin has of Mace getting pissed off at 12yo Anakin for another Padawan referring to Anakin as the Chosen One, and another scene of Mace Windu trying to spy on Anakin to see if he’s doing a good enough job of training the younglings, and another scene of Anakin making a fool out of Mace by pretending their communication line is breaking up, and it’s very clear the reader is supposed to be on Anakin’s side.

Crucially, what we’re missing is a scene proving Anakin is an unreliable narrator and showing us that Mace is a good Jedi that just doesn’t like Anakin, or that it’s not even that he dislikes Anakin, but is just fucking tired and stressed out because of the war. But we never get that. We just get perpetually angry and irritated Mace Windu who immediately supports Palpatine’s decision to send Padawans out to the front lines—which Obi-Wan objects to, and Mace overrules him. This is an extremely unflattering portrayal of Mace that is deliberately written to be so, and I don’t see the point of pretending otherwise. There’s no unreliable narrator here—Mike Chen believes the Jedi weren’t ever fully onboard with training Anakin and never truly wanted him around and uses Mace’s character to convey that point. I don’t like it, but it is what it is.

All that being said, if you like Anakin and you want to see more of his bond with Obi-Wan, or cute moments with him mentoring the Jedi younglings, or cute moments with him and Padme going on undercover dates, this is the book for you. Mike Chen very clearly loves Anakin, Padme, Obi-Wan, and the Anidala ship, and tries to write each of them at their best but still with room to grow. It’s evidently he loves these three but still has awareness of their flaws and wants to examine what makes them tick.

My review would be that Brotherhood is a 4/5 book, with the point being deducted because of Mace’s treatment, but other readers who don’t enjoy him that much probably won’t have that issue.

Also, paging @fleetstreetfatality, our resident expert on Brotherhood, see if they want to make any contributions or confirm or refute any of my points. Fire away!

[broitsf-ckingfreezing]

You know what

I think it’s really sad the way we treat Dooku as a Jedi Master. Not as a Sith, fuck that guy; he fell to the dark side and he fell HARD. He is irredeemable in that respect.

I’m talking about Jedi Master Dooku, who only interacts with Qui-Gon Jinn in Legends and fanon (because in TOTJ he had already fallen and was actively taking steps towards the downfall of the Jedi/Republic and becoming the apprentice). *Even then, I don’t really respect TOTJ as canon because of the awful way it paints the Jedi, but I will concede it as canon from the perspective of Dooku as an unreliable narrator. I just hate THAT bit where he straight up THROWS Qui-Gon and force chokes a guy and GETS AWAY WITH IT because “uwu the Jedi awe bad and cowwupt and Dooku was a victim 👉👈”

I always hated that because Obi and Dooku meet for the first time in AOTC, then clearly Enlightened MaverickTM Qui-Gon (see my opinions on THIS in @antianakins beautifully worded post) must have been abused by his master and kept Obi-Wan away from him to “protect him from evil” yadda yadda yadda, whatever. That Qui-Gon specialised in Ataru instead of Makashi like his master because Dooku was EvilTM and Qui-Gon wanted to “get back at him” or “escape trauma” or some shit like that, never because it is perfectly normal for a Jedi to find their strength in a form that is different from their teacher’s (see Anakin, Obi-Wan, WINDU, Dooku himself).

Or that because Master Dooku wore relatively regal looking robes (again, the only canonical proof of this we have is in TOTJ and COUNT Dooku, AKA ruler of Serenno) then he had a taste for “the finer things in life,” words used by EVERY fanfiction author, and was always either straight up a Sith the entire time or, at the very least, a bad Jedi who followed his own rules like Anakin. I disagree.

It has NEVER been canonically established that Dooku was an abusive man. In fact, remember that the Jedi consider Dooku a FRIEND? Even in AOTC when Padme rightly accuses Dooku of attempting to assassinate her, they extend to him the benefit of the doubt. Because he was a Jedi Master. A good one. So good, in fact, that when he outright aligns himself with a faction looking to actively separate from the Republic and the Jedi, they trust that his judgement is that he is doing right by his people. Not that he is plotting a galaxy-wide takeover.

(Don’t even get me started on Ki-Adi Mundi, the voice of reason, frequently being abused by the fans just because SOMEONE had to say this line. Clearly he’s evil! He’s an idiot! He’s corrupt! *rolls eyes*)

But why then did Dooku never meet Obi-Wan as a padawan, you ask?

It HAS been canonically established that Obi-Wan is a powerful Jedi and a powerful diplomat even before he became The Negotiator (they wouldn’t send any run-of-the-mill padawan and master duo to dispute the Naboo conflict, they sent DIPLOMATS). And he is Busy As Fuck. Remember, as a padawan he spent a YEAR on the run with Satine and Qui-Gon. And if you were to accept the Melida/Daan and Bandomeer arcs from Legends as canon, that probably adds up to another YEAR spent away from the temple, NOT including recovery time after those periods because we don’t have any real basis for how long it takes a Jedi, or even just Obi-Wan, to bounce back from the physical, mental, and Force trauma induced by these hefty skirmishes. Don’t forget, in two of these instances, Obi-Wan is only 13-14, and in the other he’s presumably about 18. And bacta tanks aren’t a magical fix-all. They don’t heal starvation, extremely long-term physical neglect/hurts, just like they don’t grow back limbs.

Dooku was also probably busy as hell. It is very likely that the two teams were never in the temple at the same time, or if they were, they were probably busy. Like teaching their respective padawans (remember a master can have more than one padawan, just not at the same time, and now that I think about it, it is pretty odd we never (hardly ever?) canonically see masters who have clearly had more than one padawan in their lifetime). Or healing from traumas. Or hanging out with friends. Or researching, or writing reports, or literally ANYTHING that could make someone busy enough to forgo introducing a child to their grandmaster. I mean, how many times did you visit your grandparents as a teenager? Probably not very often compared to the big picture that is your life.

Why didn’t they meet when Obi-Wan was knighted, then? Well, TOTJ shows us that Qui-Gon’s death was at least a little traumatic for his master, and that was his last straw. Dooku left. And after that, he probably didn’t want to see the child Qui-Gon raised. The boy who got to hear his pseudo-son’s final words and who died IN HIS ARMS. We also have NO IDEA in canon exactly how many missions Obi-Wan and Anakin went on, nor how long they lasted, but we can guess that they were an extremely busy pair knowing Obi-Wan’s prowess in diplomacy PLUS the recent reemergence of the literal thought-extinct Sith PLUS the frankly horrific ratio of Jedi to Force Null beings in the galaxy (meaning there just aren’t enough Jedi to get around to all these places) PLUS teaching a rescued slave child with childhood memories of the outer rim the ways of the Jedi and core worlds. We also know that by the time of AOTC, Anakin being probably about 17-18, possibly on the cusp of 19 which is his Knighting age, the pair have been on at least 9 missions where Anakin had to rescue Obi-Wan. Knowing Obi-WAN’s skill and power, and that these missions most likely occurred when Anakin was old enough to do things like save Obi-Wan from a whole NEST of gundarks, this is NOT a common occurrence. Even if consistently in 1 of every 5 missions Obi-Wan has to be rescued by Anakin, that adds to at least 40 missions where he didn’t. That’s a lot of missions in a ten year span on top of all the other things Jedi have to do that aren’t considered missions, again, like teaching, attending functions, researching and learning because Jedi must be a wellspring of knowledge to successfully mediate/placate/please whomever it is they’re interacting with.

[gffa]

Forcing myself to come to terms with the idea that as future projects delve into the Jedi they may come with a “the prequel Jedi lost their way,” flavor. The more I think about it the more I go even if they play it that way it’s still… not their fault right? The psychic people who feel all the pain and anger and sorrow in the galaxy living during a period in which a thousand year long conspiracy to destroy them by perpetuating pain and sorrow to increase the influence of the dark side led to them… getting overwhelmed by fear until they themselves were unable to make the best choice, or even realize they were being lured into a trap? What do you think? Possible good read on the (kind of tired) “Jedi lost their way” read.

For me, it's the blame that makes me side-eye a lot of it, especially when it's paired without any acknowledgement of the consequences of the alternatives, as if the Jedi should have just become vigilantes without acknowledging that didn't work in Star Wars, as if the Jedi should have just not fought in the war, without acknowledging that things like the Separatists were literally using defoliators on the local populations or attacking civilian cities. I think most Jedi fans agree that the Jedi shouldn't have been fighting in the war, that the path they were walking on wasn't a good one, but where a lot of us differ is in why that was and that not fighting would have been leaving innocent people to die and that the point (and I say this because Lucas said it) was that either you compromise your principles to fight in a shitty war or everyone dies. I also am very willing to chuck a lot of bullshit characters try to shove onto the Jedi as unreliable narrators, because Star Wars has always been chock full of them, that Anakin yelling he's not afraid of the dark side, he sees through the lies of the Jedi, that whole conversation is him flinging himself into the dark side and he's almost quoting Palpatine verbatim. Or that Obi-Wan spent ten years saying the time of the Jedi was over, that time had passed, that he couldn't help anyone anymore, because his own survivor's guilt got in the way. Maybe future Star Wars content will have the characters behaving in ways that are taken at face value and ignore the bigger storyline that played out in the movies and TCW, but there's a lot of wiggle room in unreliable narrators and, to be fair, the Jedi agreed that this was a shitty war and they weren't doing what they were meant to be doing. But they agreed to it because lives were on the line and their morals were not more important to them than the very real lives of people who were otherwise going to die. And if something sucks too much to take into consideration, eh, then I'm fine writing it off as bad fanfic, and going back to the good stuff.

[tennessoui]

T&t Anakin being a little bitch right now lol. He is throwing such a tantrum. Fuck ahsoka! Fuck his troops! Fuck the ppl that rely on him! ONE person made him upset so he's gonna fuck off forever. You've really mastered his personality. He certainly would blow everything up over one person (rots cough cough)

(2/2) I don't know why but I genuinely thought before this chapter that Anakin was actually going to think about his actions and what he was doing. From your tidbits I knew he decided to leave and I've no idea why I was under the impression it was a decision that Anakin had poured over and given the correct amount of contemplation. Like maybe he thinks he's not fit to be a Jedi because he'd chosen the path of revenge? Nope! He just wants to hurt Obi-Wan in the meanest way possible! Man-child Anakin activated!

oo ho ho this is such an interesting ask/reaction!! one of the reasons i really liked writing this last chapter is because anakin is just absolutely spiraling apart and as much as he can admit to himself that he feels betrayed and lost and empty and burning with rage, he also doesn't take the next step to admit that maybe any decisions he makes right now aren't going to be of sound mind and any new information he learns is going to be processed through that lens of anger and betrayal

i think him leaving the order can be put down to him having lost trust in obi-wan - and obi-wan is the order for him, obi-wan represents the entire order. there's no way he feels like he can stay because obi-wan deceived him and obi-wan chose to put the order above anakin ("when did anakin become less than his utmost important thing?") - and he is angry and he wants to hurt obi-wan ("i want to see his eyes when i tell him it's because of him") but he's also at least a little bit afraid of what he's capable of doing right now - more than representing the order, obi-wan was like the center of his entire world ("what do planets orbit when their sun implodes? nothing. they burn too.") and now he has no center at all because he's that mad at obi-wan. not even just for lying, but i think because the lie proves to him that he's never been loved by the person he has loved the most.

i really like examining the way anakin loves through fics like these and this one in particular because i think it's so....honestly, like. wild crazy. he's so consumed by rage that he was lied to and hurt by his one true love, obi-wan, that he can't see the bigger picture when master windu and master yoda immediately can put aside their emotions and think of what it means for the chancellor that obi-wan will not be undercover as hardeen to protect him ("we are at war, Anakin! This is bigger than your individual feelings of the matter.") and thats true!! they are not in any way wrong but anakin doesnt have the capability of ever seeing the situation like this because he loved obi-wan too much, was too attached, can't let go of what he feels for him--be it anger or love--for even a moment to consider the bigger picture

which he's never been able to do in this fic. i mean i think this is almost the natural conclusion to the tantrum anakin had at the very beginning of the fic where he went back to the past in the first place, though i wouldn't necessarily call that a tantrum.

except then he worked through his grief and pain and anger in the past, with the help of young obi-wan, and came back....but now he is filled with grief and pain and anger and he has to go away again to deal with it because the support system he learned to lean on when obi-wan died (the order and obi-wan) can no longer be trusted because obi-wan can no longer be trusted and the entire order is now to be held in suspicion

tldr the premise of the fic is really that he threw a tantrum and ran away from all his responsibilities like ahsoka and his men and the war; he's just doing it again but the target of his grief and rage have changed slightly and his methods of running away are different but this is all very influenced by my understanding of anakin's character and his capacity to accidentally and purposefully hurt those he loves

[unleashthegoats]

Finally listened to your Anakin episode which was great as always. I did make me curious about how much of the written material you read. The comics and Brotherhood novel covers the period between Episode II and Clone Wars (2008) and you can see how Anakin and Obi-Wan’s relationship changes and develops through those.

Thank-you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it, we actually had a lot of fun with this one, because while the three of us tend to have differing levels of TOLERANCE for Anakin, we actually share a lot of general opinions about him and his place in the narrative, which made for a really great discussion.

The answer to your question is different for each of us.

Nat has read no Star Wars comics or novels of any kind, as our resident casual fan.

Fae has only read like 3 comics, none of which were memorable enough to consider herself an expert on them. She also occasionally goes through wiki pages that include info from comics. She has not read Brotherhood. If you have specific questions about the comics or recommendations, please feel free to let us know!

For myself, I haven't read a single comic and I haven't read that particular novel. I've heard of Brotherhood, I just haven't bothered with it. One of the primary things I've heard about it is how racist it is towards Mace unless you try to be nice and pretend that Anakin was intended to be an unreliable narrator any time he discusses Mace, which... yeah given fandom attitudes towards him (and the Jedi as a whole since Mace often ends up representing the entire Order) I'm a little skeptical about the validity of that interpretation. And even if Anakin IS supposed to be an unreliable narrator, I haven't heard anything to suggest that Anakin's scenes where he calls Mace cold and unfeeling are contradicted by anything else in the novel to help balance it out. So you still just have one of the vanishingly few Black characters getting maligned and slandered in this book for no good reason while Anakin apparently just gets his flaws sanded off and smoothed over. This is the review I read about it by someone whose opinions I tend to trust, for anyone else who hasn't read it and is interested to hear someone else's take on it before trying to read it.

-- Sugar

[tljisthegoat]

The cruel irony of Disney, a company that used to be known for Happily Ever Afters & overall wholesome family-friendly shows/movies, absolutely butchered & disrespected Reylo's story just boggles my mind. They really looked at what Rian Johnson did with TLJ & and said, "Let's ruin EVERYTHING" just because the internet had the equivalent of a temper tantrum mixed with a mental breakdown over Luke not being this perfect Jedi that he was in the Old Canon/Legends continuity.

They must've mentally blocked out all of Yoda's warnings to Luke about the consequences of using the dark side.

Like when he flat out told Luke & us as the audience that if Luke used the dark side, it would start him down the dark path. Forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will. As it did Obi-Wan's apprentice. This proved to be true when Luke's use of the dark side allowed him to overcome & defeat Vader. But at the cost of changing his destiny. This is further explored in TLJ when Luke tries to kill Ben in order to stop him from becoming Kylo Ren in the future.

Sooo we're just gonna ignore that the biggest difference between Darth Vader and Kylo Ren is what Luke sensed in them? People lack critical thinking & literary analysis skills, and it shows.

Luke to Darth Vader - "I've accepted you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father. It is the name of your true self. You've only forgotten. I know there is good in you. The emperor hasn't driven it from you fully. That was why you couldn't destroy me. That's why you won't bring me to your emperor now."

Luke continues on. "Come with me."

Luke walks toward Vader, his eyes hopeful and determined. "Search your feelings father, you can't do this. I feel the conflict within you let go of your hate."

Vader responds with such overwhelming sadness, "It is too late for me, son..."

Luke: "Then my father is truly dead."

Luke: "Your thoughts betray you, father. I sense the good in you. The conflict"

Vader: "There is no conflict."

Yet, when he looks into Ben's mind, he sees darkness. He's an unreliable narrator as well to Rey, who has to force the truth of what happened to Ben out of him.

Luke: "I saw darkness. I sensed it building him in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction and pain and death and the end of everything I love because of what he will become. And in the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame and consequence. And the last thing I saw was the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him."

Rey believes in Ben being their last hope, and she was right in the end. She was also right to tell Luke that his fatal mistake was believing Ben's choice was made already. It wasn't.

Rey & Ben found belonging in one another in TLJ and had that story been given a proper conclusion with lots of kisses, sex and all that good stuff, then we would've had a future that truly lives forever instead of one that's a pathetic shell of what it could've been.

[amadwinter]

Cheeky little Thanksgiving treat to my fellow USA Obikinies (or a normal Thursday for everyone else). Also BINGO for @obikin-events Obikin Bingo just under the wire :DDD

Rating: E

Relationships: Obi-Wan Kenobi/Anakin Skywalker

Additional Tags: Dead Dove: Do Not Eat, Alternate Universe - Modern Setting, Extremely Dubious Consent, Unreliable Narrator, meet ugly, Trapped In Elevator, Unhinged Anakin Skywalker, Top Anakin Skywalker, Bottom Obi-Wan Kenobi, MILF Obi-Wan Kenobi, Obi-Wan Kenobi Has a Vagina, Cunnilingus, Vaginal Sex, Creampie, this is just filth, Plot What Plot/Porn Without Plot

Anakin goes off to college, ready to continue his hot girl summer into the next four years. Except nothing goes according to plan when he gets trapped in an elevator and falls head over heels for the person stuck with him.

My other bingo fics:

Never a Jedi ~ witch for hire

Dub-Con ~ love(?) in an elevator (this fic!)

Childhood Friends ~ always

Incest ~ Just a Kiss

Reincarnation AU ~ with love and unerring devotion

Somnophilia ~ won't stop to surrender

A/B/O ~ you can't just leave me

[shadowmaat]

unreliable narrator blorbos

Still thinking about that post the other day. It was one of many in defense of the Jedi and it talked about how the Jedi practice mindfulness: recognizing an emotion, acknowledging it, and setting it aside. A far cry from the "Jedi shun emotions" pablum so many fans try to shill.

I think part of the problem with fandom's inability/unwillingness to accurately "see" the Jedi is that they keep filtering their viewpoint through the eyes of their blorbos. And their blorbos are unreliable narrators.

Anakin stans, primarily, need to view him as an innocent victim who was misunderstood, maligned, and manipulated into his choices through no fault of his own. Thus the idea that the Jedi DO have and understand emotions is incompatible with that worldview. The Jedi need to be the "bad guys" so that their guy can be "good."

Obi-Wan stans, meanwhile, need to view him as a victim of an out-of-touch system, based pretty much entirely on lore from the discarded Legends stuff. The ultimate whumpee, subjected to unending torment throughout his padawanship. Legends needs to be canon for them and that means that the Jedi Council exists in ignorance, unaware of what's going on in the Temple at large.

Clone stans... Hm, clone stans already have a lot of preconceived biases going on before you even get started, but at least one component of it is based on stuff that Slick- a traitor- was spouting. Here again the Jedi need to be the bad guys, they need to be out of touch, and they need to be complicit in the war because obviously they could have just walked away.

Jango stans/Mandalorian apologists need to narrow their focus on a couple of of very specific events which are, again, primarily from Legends. They need to make the Jedi the unthinking aggressors so that Jango has an excuse for what he did and the whole "True Mandalorians" factions are innocent victims of a corrupt system.

Oh, there's nuances to be had, and factions and subfactions within those groups. There can be a fair amount of Jedi hand-wringing as they work to be better and more "open-minded" and aware of the world around them, but a lot of it still implies that the Jedi were wrong, misguided, led astray, emotionally constipated, etc.

I'm not saying I'm immune to this shit, either, because boy howdy have I had some wild interpretations over the years. I'm also not saying that biased thinking is bad, per se; fandom as a whole is kinda naturally predisposed to think favorably of the characters/groups they like. It just might be helpful to maintain a little mental flexibility and remember that your beliefs/interpretations aren't the One True and Only Way. And remember that your blorbos can be just as biased as you. lol