#algie's podcasting opinions

[equalseleventhirds]

yes i WILL be grouchy abt transcripts being done properly.... even for shows i like..... this is important, ok, and it’s not just tma doing it, it’s become more and more of a thing ever since more shows started doing their own trancripts (which is great!) for them to put extra description or jokes in the stage directions (which is! not great!)

some of your audience are not going to read the transcripts at all because, for whatever reason, they are best able to listen without reading it. some of your audience are going to read the transcripts only, because they can’t listen. some of your audience will do both but only process part of either the sounds or the transcript, bcos that’s also a thing that happens.

the actual goal of having a transcript for a podcast should be to deliver to both listening and reading audience members as close to the same experience as possible. it won’t be exact! but you want to be as close as you possibly can, because the whole point of providing transcripts is accessibility for people who can’t listen. the point is not cute little extras for listeners who also read the transcripts! that should never be the point!

if it is impossible to get the actual full experience unless you’re both listening and reading the transcripts: stop. try again.

[equalseleventhirds]

i think i have to respectfully disagree? like, ok, poc are not a monolith and we are just differing in opinions here, but i have thought about this... so much recently? and like, as a filipino person, if i heard a character specifically reference things like food and clothing and appearance that are related to my race & culture, but refuse to actually say the word 'filipino', and then i found out that both the actor and the writer were white, i would lose my mind. it's one thing for me to project on a character knowing they weren't intended that way; it is another for me to know that they intended this character to be like me, but did not take the time and effort to cast someone. like me. it would feel like theft, and white people have already stolen so much from us.

and that p much leaves writing white as the default in aracial characters, and that also sucks! i've already talked abt why it sucks.

like... i don't want to say yeah, make it super obvious that you only have white people. but anon, to a certain extent... if you have only managed to cast white people. you dug that hole. that's a deeper problem than whether your fictional characters are people of color; that's a problem on the creative side, of you only knowing white people, or only working with white people, which is! frankly! going to create a white-centric show! and no matter how much you allow your audience to create their own projected diversity, if your show is entirely written and acted and created by white people, you're not actually valuing diversity. you're not actually here to tell those stories, or provide that representation, or provide those acting jobs to poc (or even just an opportunity to act, bcos yes some small podcasts can't afford to pay actors, but there ARE actors of color looking to break into the business and willing to act for free, because it is hard to get paid work, and an acting reel is an acting reel. i mean, you should absolutely pay actors if you can afford to, but 'no money' is not rly an excuse nowadays). and so just deliberately having a bunch of 'aracial' characters and not owning up to the fact that your podcast is this white... it's not really fair? you like, get some of the benefits and popularity of people liking a 'diverse cast' without actually putting in the work.

i mean, i get it, from a fan perspective we don't like... want to consume and enjoy so much white people shit. it's nice to pretend that the things we enjoy give us representation. but once you become an active media creator, you have a certain amount of responsibility. like, it may just be bcos i actively study and involve myself in the creation & production side of things, but the entertainment industry as a whole is so, so full of whiteness, like, not just in casting but behind the scenes? that i'm tired of white creators getting away with making so many white-focused stories, or using poc as an aesthetic or to pull in viewers, and then treating the real actors of color like shit (including both ones who are hired and ones who are passed over for the 'best actor for the role' who just happened to be white) while they reap the benefits of good pr over 'representation'.

and i know podcasts are smaller and more independent and have less resources, but there are still... standards that can be raised. there is work that can be done, to either cast more people of color or not get the marketing benefits of fandom-manufactured diversity. or possibly just to like, take a really long look at yourself and your work and ask why your entire cast is white, why all your friends helping you make it are white, and possibly like, where you fucked up along the way for that to be the case.

This is not meant to be aggressive or anything, but since I’m white I do have a genuine question. Do you think it’s better for an all white cast to physically describe all its characters as white, or to not describe their race at all? Do you think trying to keep things aracial is always bad (when the alternative is to make everyone white)? It’s something I’ve been thinking about and I’d like to hear your opinion. Obviously a better solution would be to cast characters of color and create characters of color with race in mind (and to work with people of color during the writing process) But for white creators who are starting out and don’t have any resources, or if someone is simply starting a podcast themselves because they want to tell a story, do you think it would be better for them to create white characters or to keep race ambiguous? Obviously I know you’re just one person and aren’t like the authority on race, I just would like to know what you think. Thank you!

okay. this is one of my more important answers overall! i’ve consulted with some friends on this matter as well, so this is not just my uninfluenced opinion. this is how i’d like to see a situation like this handled, but please keep in mind that this doesn’t apply to everyone!

an all-white cast describing all of their characters as white definitely is not the way to go. even if the cast isn’t particularly diverse, the content should be palatable for a nonwhite audience.

in this case, taking an aracial approach to hint at more diversity is not at all a bad thing. i would say it’s even preferred. and this is where other character descriptors come in and prove their importance!

for example, say you’re a white podcast author and you’re writing a hispanic character. you’re performing the podcast all by yourself, so you’re going to be voicing this hispanic character. mentioning her ethnicity outright is not necessary — but mentioning her mother’s cooking, her curly, dark hair, the blue-white-and-yellow bracelet on her wrist, and her hand-laced hairtie all point towards the fact that she’s from guatemala without saying that she’s from guatemala. and your audience may interpret that how they’d like, but those of whom are of that descent or part of that denomination will spot the coding that you’ve set in place for that character and resonate with it.

in any case, it sets up a situation where your audience can create their own representation and feel valid in doing so because it’s not exactly aimless or without foundation.

as an addition, i think it would be a good idea to point out which of your characters are white, implement some racial coding in your text for your characters of different ethnicities, and leave your audience to figure it out. people will latch onto the thought quickly without you having to really specify.

[equalseleventhirds]

anyway i know i got like, very angry and passionate, and i believe that a lot of these defenses of 'aracial' (white) characters based on 'well but new podcasters have no money' may be like, coming from a place of white ppl who perhaps have not made a podcast but want to someday and are afraid of being shunned bcos they're unable to cast poc.

and like, i don't want to discourage ppl from making new podcasts! no, not even white ppl. but some of these arguments are. not great arguments.

so basically i am here to say (for those white potential-creators specifically):

yes you can cast poc, even with no money, i promise. hmu i can make it happen, producing services for free are still available.

the 'aracial' character is not actually that freeing, nor is it that great for fandom to 'make their own representation'. you can do better.

think before you start WRITING characters of color, bcos if you're not in a position to cast poc from your friend group you uhhhh might need to. expand your life experiences. make new friends. like, don't meet & befriend poc with the intention of using them for your writing, but if your friend group is THAT white, it would... be good for you to move beyond that.

at a certain point it is your responsibility as a creator to acknowledge that you're white and your life experiences are those of a white person. know that. reflect upon your writing with that. do some research. maybe bring some poc in to consult or even to write whole episodes if it's that important to you, but those are services that cost money, and if you're really that unable to pay it may be best to just like. suck it up, at least at the start.

don't treat representation as a marketing tactic. 'i want people to like my work!' is a valid feeling, but remember that everything you do to make people like your work is, in fact, a form of marketing, and it's not great for white ppl to treat poc as. marketing. i know the industry does it a lot, but you don't have to. you can be better than the entertainment industry at large. i believe in you!

[equalseleventhirds]

i think that the very best podcasts are, while not exactly poetry, definitely poetic. like maybe not all the way through, but... in a lot of places. it’s about the rhythm, it’s about the metaphor, it’s about how lyrical phrases stick in your head more, and how many times have u relistened to a podcast and been able to mouth along with the words?

i mean, most media is at least a little bit poetic, but podcasts in particular (at least the good ones) are more poetic than tv and movies and even novels. maybe more poetic than some theater. you know.

[equalseleventhirds]

hm. i know it's rly rly early but i am contemplating the argument for 'aracial' podcast characters that goes 'well beginning podcasters don't have money to hire actors, so they just use their friends, so their casts are very white, so it's better for them to let fandom create representation with their aracial characters'

and i think... maybe back in 2012, when podcasts were so small? but maybe not rly... and especially not here and now in the year 2021, and let me tell you why:

audio dramas are SO damn popular nowadays that you can put a casting call for a totally unpaid podcast on twitter or tumblr and get HUNDREDS of auditions. is it better to pay your actors? yes of course. are people totally willing to do this work for free, or for the promise of patreon pay if your patreon takes off? yes absolutely.

there are a lot of all-white or majority-white podcasts which are, nevertheless, WILDLY popular. sometimes this is bcos of fanon depictions, but often it's just! people like their stuff! regardless of rep!

representation should not be a marketing tool. it should not be something you do (or leave vague) in order to appeal to your audience. representation is about telling the stories of marginalized people, it's about marginalized people being able to find WORK in the creative industry, it's about just! normalizing our existence in the world by showing us in media! faux-representation in 'aracial' characters will NEVER actually do this, and you're not actually helping anyone (except perhaps the popularity of your show) by not acknowledging the whiteness of your cast.

why are all your friends white. no seriously wtf. this does not make things BETTER. you need to talk to some poc i think.

if you are white and all your friends are white, possibly you have no business writing about poc at all actually? not even vague 'well they might be poc'? like, are you going to WRITE about us or use us as an aesthetic or create horrible mangled stereotypes based on media you've consumed?

(don't say you've gotten a sensitivity reader. if you can't pay cast members you can't pay a sensitivity reader.)

and, if you apparently don't know any poc, when you write your 'aracial' character, you are simply writing whiteness and refusing to put a name to it, making it the default. again, not helpful for real representation.

this argument is always, ALWAYS used to justify 'aracial' writing for white casts, bcos white is the fucking default. this isn't just in podcasts, but poc in the creative industry don't get to like... escape their race. it's always there. it's considered in casting, it's considered in people accepting your writing; we're expected to be the representatives of our races/tell our 'cultural story' every time we write/provide a 'different perspective' on the industry/whatever. i will never be just 'a writer' or 'an actor' or 'a director'. i will be the filipino writer/actor/director, and expected to be telling THAT story at all times, and used as the diversity checkmark by white people. and in some ways this is a responsibility poc have! when we are able to reach these places, when so few of us get to, we have a chance to be the representation people need, so we do! but unlike white people, we will never be considered 'aracial' or the default. and not only is this wildly fucking unfair, for white ppl to get this benefit of just! writing a white person without saying so! and people manufacturing representation in a way that makes their shit popular! while poc cannot! it's also like... we're always expected to tell our damn racial story. white people can fucking own up to the fact that they're telling theirs. who knows, that honesty might even make your writing better.

...that got very kind of angry and passionate and also i'm sure there's more reasons? it is VERY early like i said but i. i'm real tired of seeing that same old 'well but they're just beginners so it's fine to be so fucking white!!' thing. maybe once upon a time it was, when podcasts as a whole were still finding their ground. now, when you're breaking into podcasting, there is a whole bunch of groundwork laid out for you. you can grow past that.

[equalseleventhirds]

Hi, is it okay if I ask for clarification about your statements about white creators making aracial characters? Are you saying that all white creators should specify either outside or within canon that their characters are canonically white? Or are you saying that white creators should just be honest with their audience about how they (the creators) are white and thus their characters are written from a white perspective (and aren’t really aracial bc they can’t really be in a society of white supremacy)? Sorry if this is a dumb question

no, it's fine! i get it might be confusing.

i think that, if a white creator is writing white characters played by white actors, and deliberately going out of their way to avoid mentioning in canon that the character is white, in order to present an 'aracial' character with the idea of 'everyone relating to them': i think that's a bad practice. i understand how it gained popularity, i understand that it's very fun for fandom, but i think it's irresponsible on the creator's part. it perpetuates the idea of whiteness as 'default', and sometimes it gains them points from fandom or even new incoming fans bcos of the 'diversity' fandom projects onto them.

(tbh i kind of think that writers of color should specify when they're writing white characters, but also the 'default' for a creator of color is gonna come out... differently than from a white creator.)

i'm not like, gonna force ppl to sit down and awkwardly list off which ppl are white in canon. i think, like other parts of a character's appearance, and like how characters of color can be subtly hinted at with smaller details dropped, it's possible to make clear that this character is white without being awkward or forced about it. it's certainly better to work it into canon than to word of god it, just bcos ppl can easily ignore word of god, and also it shows a talent for writing to be able to work that into the text itself. (you can ALSO have a character referred to as white in canon, tho. it's possible. if it feels natural, do it.)

(i also think that some white ppl have not yet realized that the 'default' character they're creating is white. they aren't often confronted by the fact that the white, western, anglo experience is not universal or something relatable to everyone. most of our western media does position whiteness as a null, as something everyone can relate to! if you've internalized these messages, i'm not gonna say ur like, a horrible evil intentional racist or w/e. but if you are a white creator and consider a character ur writing 'aracial', maybe take a good long look and see if it's just like... they seem like the default to your experiences. and then either change something, or stop avoiding physical descriptors in canon, bcos ppl's appearances rly are noticeable and something other ppl might comment on, so it's totally possible to establish race this way.)

[equalseleventhirds]

also night vale’s particular format of (weird) community radio is great for when shit hits the fan in Plot, bcos night vale tends to drop tiny details that gradually coalesce into plot, which could be easy to miss as ppl listen to the podcast casually/while doing other things (especially with how soothing cecil’s voice is, and how many other weird details there are)

except cecil can bring it up over and over again, either bcos there’s been a new/recurring event to do with the thing, or just conversationally (’john peters, you know, the farmer’ but for plot details) in episodes leading up to Big Plot Event or even during the event

and shows like tma or victoriocity also do it a little bit bcos the characters are actively making those connections at the same time the audience is, but the fucking art of wtnv and the friendly voice reminding u of past details? i enjoy that so much

[equalseleventhirds]

tbh? i don't think there's any such thing as an 'aracial' character. you might be able to maintain araciality in some short-form fiction, but it falls apart in long-form. race impacts so much of how a person experiences and interacts with the world, in ways that white authors never seem to realize - an 'aracial' character written by a white author is a character who acts in ways the author considers to be 'default', aka a white character.

yeah!!! when we discuss fandom meta we tend to use ‘aracial’ to mean ‘a character without a defined race’, but you’re absolutely right, it’s mostly done with white-coded/white-written characters (and it’s also mostly done with characters played by white actors) written by white writers as some kind of human-default, which is. lil a bit racist. lil a bit ‘othering poc’. lil bit.

i think for a great many podcasts specifically this is Such a Thing where like, fandom decides to portray a character without a defined race & played by a white person as a poc in fanart, and then the (white) writer is like ‘well i didn’t set out to do that and i can’t take credit for it but yeah go for that headcanon!’

and it’s like, well-meaning, and it’s NICE to have those headcanons available to us, but it also.... feels like a lack of responsibility? like, particularly those writers who will define the race of characters of color and then go ‘all headcanons are valid’ for characters played by white actors... like, at a certain point i am just saying, step up and admit you’ve got white characters, bcos that then allows us as the audience to interpret your work and the racial dynamics when your ‘aracial’ characters interact with characters of color.

(i think that like, for shorter work like you said, or up until casting for a longer work, you can get away with ‘aracial’ or ‘no race specified’, but once you cast those white actors, you eventually need to make the characters white, or run the risk of falling into this. don’t get me wrong, i love fandom interpretations, but this really is a more and more noticeable THING.)

[equalseleventhirds]

way too tired to be coherent but like. u kno when there's funny lines in things. and there's like. three different ways they can be delivered?

1. made as a purposeful joke. wink-wink-nudge-nudge. this is where sitcom canned laughter would be inserted. can be ok if done with a light touch, but can also slip into over-the-top & forced way too easily.

2. delivered just as seriously as other lines? and sometimes this works but sometimes it is done too earnestly. (for example i just listened to a character go 'you ate all the weed brownies' like they were genuinely concerned (but not panicked!) and like. there is some ridiculousness to the situation. come on. if they are not calling the ambulance over it, let them acknowledge it as ridiculous, or it just feels... flat. also kinda weird and unnatural.)

3. somewhere in between these!! this is the best one!! where the audience knows it's funny, and the cast & crew know it's funny, but the characters are reacting naturally. yes it may be ridiculous and they WILL respond to that, but they are not winking at us over it!!

and part of it is in the writing and part of it is in the directing and part of it is in the acting and like. #3 is what i am looking for when i say i want to consume funny media. even if it's a more serious story with some funny lines, if it's done like #3 i am so for it.

[equalseleventhirds]

essentially, like, hearing something like ‘she ducks around the corner, skillfully evading the android guards and their deadly weapons’? nothing. i get nothing.

but, hearing the sound of running footsteps, an abrupt stop, a quiet-but-forceful ‘shit’, followed by the slow, careful sound of feet walking backwards, while distant mechanical weapons sounds (which got louder right up until the stop) gradually get softer as we move away?

that shit a. fucks, b. paints a vivid picture without having to go into detail, and c. makes me care abt this character, the near-miss, the suspense, etc etc.

is the character maybe a little less badass, a little less flawlessly competent? sure. but i care more now.

[equalseleventhirds]

yes in fact i am saying that the impossible web & gaping chasm thing was unnecessary and incorrect... talk abt the static, talk abt the howling wind & echoing that comes with the big fucking pit, talk abt the sticky sounds of annabelle’s web. leave the rest up to either dialogue or audience interpretation. if we come up with martin webbed to a pole next to a hole in the ground instead of standing on an impossible web, that is our business, and also jonny’s for writing it. alex works so hard on the soundscape, and i do appreciate anil’s work on the transcripts, and i’m so grateful that rq is doing official transcripts, don’t get me wrong.

but ‘impossible web’ is something that should be in the dialogue, and just like, add some sticky sounds or rope creaking or something to help soundscape what is being said. if ‘impossible web’ is not relevant enough for dialogue then don’t put it in! don’t put it in.

[equalseleventhirds]

someday also i AM going to talk abt the usefulness of largely plotless episodes in podcasts, bcos of the way that most ppl listen to podcasts while doing other things (on a train, doing chores, at work, etc) and having swathes of not-terribly-important, easily-interruptable episodes is good for that (shorter eps are Also Good)

while also relating to the intimacy of podcasts being a voice in your ears (often with earbuds! so Very Close! In Your Head!), going places with you, such that what we are getting from those filler-ish episodes is not action like we get from tv shows and movies, but is more abt getting to know & like the characters, bcos you’re going to mainly have either dialogue (and thus, getting acquainted with character dynamics) or monologues (and thus, getting acquainted with a particular character’s thoughts, in an extremely personal way that visual mediums don’t rly do for you)

so in spite of not being full of plot there IS a point to that particular format, and it’s a good format

[equalseleventhirds]

GOD yes the thing abt directorial impact on sound design

like, when i sound designed an episode i wrote & directed myself? i had the sounds in my head, i knew what i was doing, that was easy

i have now also worked on some stuff that i did not write or direct, and in fact had v little impact on the writing or the acting (or the recording setup), and it is like. such a different experience to soundscape something based on someone else's work, bcos it's an interpretation game, and so much of what u do depends on how much direction they actually give you

[equalseleventhirds]

it's like... it's like... how seriously does this piece of media take itself? and that's not always the same as how serious the piece of media is. like, the magnus archives? very serious media! does not take itself too seriously. valence? took itself very seriously in spite of some like, genuinely could've been funny moments (within the serious framework of it), and i felt like, uncomfortable and slightly stressed when i tried to listen to a few episodes bcos it felt so serious, like it was taking these humorous moments so seriously i didn't feel like laughing? u kno?

and idk maybe it is just me who has this issue of seriousness-of-tone, and also for like starting-out podcasts (like valence) perhaps i should not judge too harshly (and perhaps later episodes get better!) but i just can't enjoy stuff like that.

[equalseleventhirds]

when i talk abt podcasting as an art form i mostly mean audio dramas, sometimes actual plays, bcos those are what interest me. i am aware that nonfiction podcasts exist, and i can appreciate them as a medium, and i can do analysis of them and what like, works for a broader audience and stuff, bcos i did in fact study journalism before i started studying broader media stuff

but also! i simply am not as interested in nonfiction podcasts as fiction podcasts! and also serial is held up as like such a big important podcast but it failed to capture me bcos i just don't fucking like true crime as a genre.

[equalseleventhirds]

i do in fact enjoy in podcasts when they use dialogue to narrate physical actions that u can’t see, but ONLY when it’s done in fun & inventive ways. wolf 359 did in fact do that.

(in a different & more comedic way, victoriocity also does that, mostly through character a’s exasperated/shocked/otherwise emotional reaction to character b’s actions. it’s the simultaneous description and reaction/commentary. it’s fun.)