#agrat

[paraseleneblur]

I love SMT 5 vengeance it is a good game

[kaos-mass]

"Any last words?"

[catulhu333]

Demon WLW in Kabbalah

(note: this contains controversial topics)

As Lilith is now again more on people's minds, as are to a lesser degree the 3 other Demon Queens/Angels of Prostitution (them thanks to the soon coming out Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance and maybe Majo Taisen), I wanted to bring up something about them, that is oddly obscure and underused.

Specifically that in Kabbalist texts, 3 of them (Lilith, Agrat bat Mahlat and Naamah) are characterized as Women Loving Women (WLW).

Lets first discuss the less controversial Agrat bat Mahlat and Naamah, who are described (seemingly) as lovers in Rabbi's Naftali Hertz's "Sefer Emek haMelech":

"Asimon (a demon) rides on Naamah, and Naamah rides on Igrath the daughter of Mahalath, and this Igrath rides on several kinds of spirits and bands of midday-demons;"

("Igrath daughter of Mahalath" is another possible spelling/transliteration as well as partial translation of Agrat bat Mahlat from Hebrew)

To be clear, the term "ride" is used in Kabbalah seems to be a synonym for sexual relationships among demons. The most (in)famous example is Samael "riding" Lilith ("The serpent, Lilith, is ridden by Samael").

Now to Lilith herself...in the Zohar (one of the foundations of Kabbalah), Lilith is described as lusting after and possibly being in love with both Adam and Eve:

"When He created Adam, in order to perfect this world, as soon as Lilith saw Eve affixed to the side of Adam, and saw in them the beauty of the Above, and saw their perfect image, she flew off from there and wanted, as before to attach herself to the little faces. But the guardians of the gates of Above did not Let her."

It also seems Lilith managed to later seduce not only Adam, but also Eve herself. But first to explain some things. As I mentioned above, in the Zohar, Samael isn't really the Serpent of Eden, he just rides it/her, the Serpent being Lilith ("We have learned that the Spirit of Defilement comes from the corrupt serpent, WHICH IS LILIT"). And well, Lilith/the Serpent of Eden is described to have sexually seduced Eve:

"After Adam and his wife sinned, and the serpent had intercourse with Eve and injected filth into her, Eve bore Cain. He had the shape from above and FROM below in the secret of the filth of the Other Side, and from the side below OF THE EXTERNAL FORCES. Therefore, he was the first to bring death into the world, caused by his side, AS HE CAME OF THE FILTH OF THE SERPENT."

This is also repeated in the mentioned above Sefer Emek haMelech:

And the Serpent, the Woman of Harlotry, incited and seduced Eve through the husks of Light which in itself is holiness. And the Serpent seduced Holy Eve, and enough said for him who understands. An all this ruination came about because Adam the first man coupled with Eve while she was in her menstrual impurity -- this is the filth and the impure seed of the Serpent who mounted Eve before Adam mounted her.

("Woman of Harlotry" is a title of Lilith)

And yeah, it means Lilith is described as Cain's "father". (And sometimes also kinda Abel's). Though this is complicated as other parts of the Zohar state Samael is Cain's father, but at other times he is specifically not, only Lilith/the Serpent is. And sometimes Adam, Lilith/the Serpent and Samael are all Cain's "fathers" (meaning the guy somehow had 4 parents). Though this version more suggests Lilith and/or Samael somehow "polluted" Cain in the womb (when seducing Eve), hence they are also his "parents".

One might ask how this can be the case with Lilith, Agrat and Naamah being described as engaging in sexual acts and relationships with other women? Well, it's because it's portrayed as sinful, (in the eyes of the writers) as part of the three's sexual perversion, with the three being succubi, even their queens. This is another reason I described this as controversial, and wasn't sure to post it on June/Pride Month. Still, I think there is a lot of value with making this more known, and one can say Lilith, Agrat and Naamah can be reclaimed.

Why isn't this well known? Well, works of Kabbalah were not easily available in past, especially translated from Hebrew and Aramaic , there often being mostly excerpts or summaries in books describing them. And the authors of these, often overlooked or downplayed the WLW aspects, due to them being even more controversial in the past, due to greater homophobia then. This also why Lilith, Naamah and Agrat being WLW was not often or at all used in fiction.

Still, I hope people reading these found it interesting, and I apologize though if it was offensive for others.

[stareon]

Agrat

[doorow]

Curly hair doll with big hat!

[profanepurity]

Does lilith have any sister? In kabbalistic text she have three sister

My interpretation of Lilith does not have any sisters, but I believe I know the three you're talking about. Naamah, Agrat, and Eisheth are super interesting to me! WIP Character Bios/ Intros below the cut!

I'll start with a broad summary of all three of their backgrounds. Naamah, Agrat, and Eisheth originated as three Cherubim who guarded the Garden of Eden with Uriel. They were companions to Lilith and Adam during their marriage. When Lilith was banished from Eden, they followed her into the desert while Uriel stayed behind with Adam and Eve. Lilith, Naamah, Agrat, and Eisheth became the first succubi and queens of Hell.

Naamah

Desire plagued Naamah after her fall. It was something that clawed inside of her every day and night like a caged animal, but she had no idea how to quell the torment. She attempted to blame it on her sin, but she had felt this hunger within her even when she was still an angel. The urge haunted her when she looked at Lilith's neck and the veins running in Adam's arms. It was easier to suppress and ignore it back then. Naamah's prerogative to protect Lilith never left her, so harming her was never an option. When her fall from grace amplified it to an unbearable point, Naamah made the decision to isolate herself. She met Belial one night when she was walking through the desert aimlessly, weak and cold, vaguely following the howls of wolves in the distance. His jaws had been latched into the neck of an angel. Innocent blood coated Belial's face, chest, and the body of the slowly dying entity of light. The hunger was excruciating as she witnessed the murder. So when Belial looked at her and moved back from the body, Naamah did not hesitate to plunge her teeth into the already mutilated throat. Finally, her desire had been satiated by blood. Not only that, she found someone who was cursed in the same way that she was. Still, the idea of having to kill to survive troubled Naamah initially. For a while, she only drank when Belial offered his own blood to her. This motivated her to cave to the necessity so that she could afford to offer Belial her blood when he needed it. By the time their daughter Aclima, the first vampire, was born, Naamah no longer hesitated to kill. The Mother of Vampires is like a comforting, de-stimulating blanket of shade. Her presence is shielding from harsh light and intimate in the way two lovers in a dark room together are. But as the Queen of Iniquity, she is also the unforgiving, cold touch of a blade against flesh. A predator must eat; that is nature.

Agrat

Her presence has always been intimidating and intense. Even as a Cherub, Agrat was the first to raise her sword at any sign of a threat. Confrontation and conflict were never things she shied away from, especially if it was in defense of someone close to her. But despite being quick to battle, Agrat is a tactful and deceiving opponent. After her fall, Agrat encountered creatures that tested her in combat. She battled monsters from the deepest pits who made her question her ability to protect the very few people she had in her circle. This only fueled her wrath in battle, which led her closer and closer to Azazel. Azazel was born from the embodiment of Hell and Wrath himself. He rules over the monsters that crawl out of Hell to walk the Earth. Like magnets, Agrat and Azazel were locked in sporadic, counterbalanced battles for Azazel's throne over the beasts of Hell for centuries. When Azazel began to devour the sins that humans cast onto him to cleanse their souls, Agrat was worried their balance of power would be shifted in his favor. But it wasn't until Azazel was chained and buried in the desert by Archangel Raphael that their quarreling was truly disrupted. Displeased with this, Agrat, the daughter of deception, went to Azazel's burial sight and danced to distract the angels who were guarding it so Azazel could escape. They killed the angels together and formed a truce, which led to them agreeing to rule side by side. Along with ruling the beasts of Hell, Agrat and Azazel oversee the Pits where the damned are eternally tortured. On Earth, Agrat will sometimes dance on the rooftops of houses as a distraction from the hoards of Lilim coming to feast on unclean souls. Agrat also created the Daemi, a species of demon who guard the borders of the Pits to keep any of the damned from escaping into the peaceful regions of Hell.

Eisheth

As a Cherub, Eisheth was the most verbally compassionate of the guardians of Eden. She naturally brought comfort to the people around her and knew how to de-escalate situations quickly and peacefully. Even as a succubus, her sweet voice, bubbly personality, and soft appearance could ease even the most bellicose of demons. Much like Naamah, Eisheth hid a dark desire within herself that she only began to explore once she had fallen. Her tongue not only thirsted for blood and violence but also the flavor of souls, leading her to become the most intemperate of the four queens. She often partners with Baalzebub and Belphegor when tempting men to sin and feast on their tainted spirits. Eisheth targets those who glut on money, food, and flesh. In some cases, she favors them and offers them an afterlife of hedonism in hell with her. Others are not so lucky, but it depends on the severity of their transgression in life. For those who have committed the most egregious of sins, Eisheth will ensure their descent into Hell is excruciating. Despite the twisted nature of her hunts, Eisheth still holds warmth for the people who are close to her. Her own desires of the flesh can be mellowed and soft when she is with people she loves. Her marriage to Belphegor is a fulfilling one. She is more than happy to take up certain tasks for him to help him relax more or get more work done. She's always been fascinated by his experiments, especially the ones that involve torturing the damned. When his test subjects are too broken to be of any use to him, Belphegor will give the broken versions of their souls to her to eat.

[brightestandbest]

Agrat's Carol

An Antichristmas carol to the tune of “The Cherry Tree Carol.” When Na’amah was in sorrow, in sorrow was she She cried to mighty Lilith, first woman to be free, She cried to mighty Lilith, first human to be free. “Sweet Lilith” quoth Na’amah, “O where shall I begin? “God’s cruelty hath undone me, the flood hath drowned my kin, God’s cruelty hath undone me, the flood hath drowned my…

[evildeedbluez]

[wavatatak]

A drawing for a DND campain

Agrat

[babykatafan]

evil demon girl yuri!!!!!

[paraseleneblur]

If I was in Da'at nobody could stop me

[crispymcswell]

Agrat bat Mahlat + keep reading for progress pics

[eirikrjs]

Thinking Beyond Replacement

The new Lilith reveal when Vengeance was announced led to another stupid & frankly outdated thought: "why design a new look for a classic SMT demon that's still popular when the new is functionally identical to the old?"

This thought nevertheless got me curious, so i made the Qadistu quartet edits seen above. I've become pro-Doi Lilith for the following reasons:

Kaneko is super dead now that he left Atlus. It's time to move on for real. I'm especially talking to myself.

the palettes of Eisheth Zenunim, Agrat bat Mahlat, and Naamah aren't dissimilar to the Amemiya or Kaneko Liliths, so they would still look fairly cohesive even with the latter. But Lilith is still the leader of the Qadistu and her bubblegum pink hair makes her pop out among them.

However, I think it's undeniable that Doi designed the Qadistu as a unit, combining, as he says, "beauty and ugliness." All 4 have grotesque features and I particularly like Lilith's bony joint aberrations:

There's just a level of cohesion usually only a single artist can lend to such a related/thematic assemblage; I'm also pretty positive on Naamah; even if her purpose in the Qadistu might just be to breast boobily, she's a demon I've wanted in SMT for a long time and i think her design delivers.

I'm not as hot on Agrat bat Mahlat, she reminds me of Ranni for some reason; I just think the "dark witch" motif is a little derivative but at least she adds variety to the group. The most notable thing about her to me is that her red eyes make it look like she's been doing some heavy dabbing in the sweet leaf. Eisheth Zenunim I'm pretty neutral about.

Last point on accepting change, as sad as that sounds to say (but it totally is what's necessary):the 4 Qadistu are the wives of Samael, and so the new Lilith is still wrapped by a snake--a red snake, the same color Samael has always been in Kaneko's designs. While it seems a given Samael will be involved in the story eventually, it would also mean he will have a new design, and probably not a snake, or at least something more involved. I also imagine Lilith's snake having a role in cutscenes--further necessitating the need for an all-new design/model.

Also, i totally expect there to be some classic SMT comparative etymological conflation bullshit with Samael this time around, because "Samael" is one of the alternate names of Yaldabaoth. And oh yeah, Sophia is the mother of the demiurge and in vanilla she called herself a sacred prostitute:

So expect her involvement, too. I'm honestly pretty excited for Vengeance! It's coming out at a great time for me, I think it'll be doable for me one-handed,Doi's new designs I would put on a Kaneko quality scale of somewhere between SMT2 and Devil Summoner, and vanilla SMT5 was so low impact, the only place it can go now is up!

[sageofanys]

The four wives of Samael – Qadištu –

[weisart20]

[geminiorum]

before smtvv came out i saw someone on here say that agrat bat mahlat looked like she had just smoked a fat fucking blunt because of her eyes so i just needed to do this

(original by punkitt-is-here)