#aegon's prophecy

[horizon-verizon]

Daenerys is the Prince that was Promised. When she visits the House of the Undying, she is told she is the child of three, which relates to the three heads of the Dragon. And the child of three/three heads of the Dragon means she is the Prince that was Promised, the Stallion who Mounts the World, Azor Ahai. They are all myths retelling the same story, just in a different cultural lens.

People forget that Martin’s subversion of the Chosen One trope is based on 90s fantasy...which was overwhelmingly male characters and candidates, perhaps the most significant at the time being Rand al’Thor of the late Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time series. No one would expect, at the time, that the Prince that was Promised would be a princess. Most would have argued, as a significant portion of the fandom does till this day, that it is Jon, the standard male hero character. Jon being the Prince that was Promise would be a trope in of itself. Since we have gone beyond 90s fantasies, there have been more female chosen ones (Daenerys paved the way), but she still resides in that 90’s concept of a female Chosen One. (Also ignoring the obvious Jesus parallels such as her walk through the desert, her being born of fire, Bonfier Hasty worshiping the Maiden because of his love for Rhaella, etc).

I note as much ("They are all myths retelling the same story, just in a different cultural lens.") HERE. branwyn-the-half-witch has an interesting thought that that particular title accidentally developed from Aegon seeing a Targ from his own blood ("prince") be needed ("promised") for a future fight HERE.

Which justifies how the TPTWP title/meaning exists in Westeros; no other Westerosi (maester or otherwise) really spoke of it before Stannis, who of course received such from Melisandre and more a restored-but-half-realized knowledge of the original Essoi mythic body of a savior. Said "restored" because the Targs have been isolated from or cut themselves from Essos but were still magically/by blood connected to it...bc their very blood is that source for those dragon dreams.

(Ironically, the Seven faith--meant to mimic Catholicsm and the Catholic Church in its:

dogma

that dogma's rigidity's influence over the whole of Westeros' society (chivalry/warriordom; mores on hierarchy and obedience, childrearing/corporal punishment, the self-mortification of the carving stars in one's forehead [though this is present in many real-world religions and sects, in the West its immediately recognized and associated with Christian self flagellation])

the multiplicity of many aspects of one god, the aesthetics of stained windows or multicolored glass/translucent substances inlaid or making up part of a geometric, architectural structure [not just buildings but crowns of the high Septon and Aenys I]

the structure of High Septon, septons, and septas mirroring Pope, priests/deacons/measters-monks/nuns

the HS/Pope's relationship with monarchs as to sometimes affirm and sometimes condemn and be some sort of religious "check" but also support for the monarchy

"holy days"

the Knights Templar (who were aka "The Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon") & crusaders inspiring the Poor Fellows & the Warrior's Sons

*EDIT* some rituals, as well

has no element of a Christ-like or a generally mythic savior figure in its mythos. The none Catholic/Seven faiths [except the old gods, but even here there is a hint of a need for saving against the Long night but its just so decreased bc of te nearly lost greenseers and twstsote and the giants] all have this focus on a savior figure instead.)

[lemonhemlock]

I'm the prev anon, I'm glad you like the theory! It also just hit me like lightning when I was thinking about Maegor and if he was motivated by prophecy, and then suddenly it dawned on me, "what if Maegor is why the prophecy is only told to heirs?" Because I did see a lot of people talking about the HotD prophecy thinking it didn't make sense for only kings and heirs to know about it, because of both how Maegor messed up the line of succession and the question of what if something happened to the king before they managed to tell their heir? It seemed like an inefficient and flimsy system for something that seems so important, but idea that Maegor's usurping the throne was what caused that system in the first place makes a lot of sense to me!

You also brought up a good point about how it's probable that whole Targaryen family might have known prior to Maegor. Beforehand, people were asking how Jaehaerys I was able to know the prophecy when only the heirs were told, despite Jaehaerys never having been officially named heir, I thought it was either his mother Alyssa Velaryon or his sister Rhaena who told him, because they were told by their husbands who were both named heirs. But honestly? Maybe Aegon I just told them all lmao. Maybe Jaehaerys and Alysanne knew all along, because at that point in time the whole family was close enough that they thought they could just keep the secret. And it was only afterwards when they started having children that they established the tradition to only tell the heirs. It explains a lot, I think.

It also adds something to Viserys and Daemon's relationship in the show, and the fact that Viserys didn't tell Daemon about it. It shows that Viserys never really saw him as worthy enough to be his heir, but is it because maybe Viserys was a little afraid? Did he fear that Daemon knowing would cause him to try and usurp him? They do have some similarities to the brotherly pairing of Aenys and Maegor, so did Viserys fear the same thing? (Which is ironic, considering that I do genuinely think that Daemon would never overthrow his brother, even if he did know)

Finally, a tiny question I've also been pondering: do you think Aemma Arryn knew? Obviously very few people being told was supposed to keep the secret secure, but I feel like maaaaybe Viserys would have trusted her enough to tell her about it. Maybe her knowing could have been intended to be a back-up in case something happened to him. Could also add something to their relationship as well.

Hello again! I also think it's probable that Aenys just told all of his children and his wife. Makes more sense if everyone knew, as opposed to Aenys only telling Prince Aegon. Then Aegon must have broken the system for some reason, went rogue and told Rhaena. So far in the dynastic history, I don't see any reason why Egg 1 would decide to gatekeep this information within his own family. Succession was supposed to happen in accordance with normal Andal customs: Conqueror -> eldest son Aenys -> his eldest son, Aegon. Maegor was the one who upset this balance, since he was way down the line, behind Prince Aegon's children Aerea and Rhaella and, after that, behind all of Aenys' other children. The audacity, right?

RE: Daemon - perhaps it's true that Viserys never really saw Daemon as his heir. But I think that was borne more from this genuine, stalwart, blind belief he had that he was going to get sons eventually. Like that dream visited him at one point and he became 100% convinced by its validity - though it's debatable whether it was an actual dragon dream (he has had none other than that one - seems suspicious) or just a regular dream he put too much credence in, because he wanted so, so much to be a dragon dreamer himself. So, in that sense, maybe it explains more how he wasn't really bothered about Daemon's shenanigans and was so indulgent with him. He can misbehave all he wants, he's never going to be King, so what does it matter? Let him have his fun, right?

RE: Aemma. Hmm. Honestly, this could go both ways. Viserys would be the only way for her to find out - Daella dies in childbed and no way would Alysanne have a reason to tell her, I don't think. I could see Viserys both keeping to "the system" (lol) - if Jaehaerys told him on his deathbed, after the Great Council of 101, and impressed upon him the necessity of the king-to-heir pipeline. I can also see him confiding in Aemma, since he did love her, and this making her more resolute towards "doing her duty" and producing a son for Viserys - to echo her words to Rhaenyra about how the birthing bed is their battlefield.

It's interesting to think that Rhaenys could have known, too! Aemon was the heir for years and she was his only child - 18 when he died, married and pregnant. On the one hand, if she knew, she must have not told her children for some reason, because Laena would have told Daemon if she knew. Anyway, this is just show-only. Textually, Daemon could have very well found out via the Laena/Rhaenys pipeline.

There is also the question of how Aegon III found out so as to pass it on - Rhaenyra must have told him after Joffrey died and they fled King's Landing, just before she met her death on Dragonstone. What a roller coaster!

Of course, in the books, GRRM can decide to make the secret less gatekeep-y according to the needs of each generation, so as to make sure the prophecy does somehow pass on to Rhaegar - who was nothing if not prophecy-obsessed. But Prince Viserys never gets told and, thus, he can't tell Daenerys in turn. We don't know what Lyanna knew and what she told Ned, since Ned never specifies in his POV and, most importantly, never tells Jon. BUT. Perhaps he told Howland Reed?

It would make sense that the history books haven't recorded this, since the maesters writing the histories wouldn't have been in on it.

[mneiai]

Just had a thought, I didn't really care to go too deeply into it because it's so lol no but uhh

Does House of the Dragon ever explain how the hell Viserys I learned Aegon's prophecy?

It would have gone Aegon I to Aenys I to Aegon the Uncrowned who...died when his children were very young. If he did tell Prince Viserys, it would have surely been lost when he was tortured to death? Or did Aegon the Uncrowned tell Rhaena who told Jaehaerys? Or Prince Viserys reveal it to Maegor under torture and he told Aerea who told Jaehaerys? Or did Aegon I tell Visenya who told Maegor who...

I mean, basically what I'm saying is, if it's only told to the heirs, there's no easy way to explain how the hell Jaehaerys knew, because there was a massive succession battle when he was just a kid and he wasn't ever going to be king without a series of less than expected deaths. And if it's not only told to heirs it's weird as hell Viserys (or Baelon) never told Daemon (also weird Aemon never told Rhaenys, for that matter).

lol I hate it in general but I hate it more because it feels like ten plotholes created to try to fill in one.

[danyyytarggg]

“when the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, azor ahai will be reborn amidst salt and smoke and wake dragons out of stone,” - quite literally, undeniably, what happened with daenerys.

some of yall: b-but y-you don’t understand! jon snow is fire AND ice! yk targaryen and stark so it has to be him. jon is azor ahai and the prince that was promised 🥺

[hotdaemondtargaryen]

EWAN MITCHELL INTERVIEWED BY THE INVERSE MAGAZINE.

HOW HAS AEMOND CHANGED OVER SEASON TWO?

"For the first four episodes, you see Aemond operating from the peripheries."

"You see him and Criston Cole during their Shadow Council scenes trying to manipulate the Council table to the way they want to run things."

"Aemond is waiting for his moment to strike."

"At the end of Episode 4 — at the Battle of Rook’s Rest — he seizes his opportunity to take two dragons out with one stone."

"It's only until the “Red Sowing” in Episode 7, where Rhaenyra enlists and raises new dragon riders, that Aemond’s power is threatened."

"You're going to see a more desperate side to Aemond."

"And a desperate Aemond is a dangerous one because he might overcompensate."

"He might be a little more irrational than the composed stoic face that he's had before."

"In Episode 8, he's outgunned and he's outraged."

"The Blacks have seven dragons, the Greens have three."

"We have Vhagar, we have Dreamfyre, and we have Daeron’s dragon Tessarion, who's just taken wing."

"Aemond very much wants to win the war."

DO YOU CONSIDER AEMOND THE VILLAIN OF HOUSE OF THE DRAGON?

"It's very easy to make that assumption and judgment just because of the way that he looks."

"His Targaryen blacks, the long hair, the eye patch — it screams villain, but it depends on what side you're on."

"He's the guy who is prepared to do the necessary evil."

"He wants to be seen as a war hero."

"He knows he can be loved, but he knows he can achieve more if he's willing to be feared."

"He's done a lot of bad stuff to support the theory that he is the villain of the show."

"That's one of the most satisfying things for me is decoding his DNA and discovering that he isn't just that two-dimensional villain."

CAN YOU ONCE AND FOR ALL SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ABOUT THE BATTLE OF ROOK'S REST? WERE AEMOND'S ACTIONS PURPOSEFUL? WAS THAT COLLATERAL DAMAGE OR DID HE JUST TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEIZE THE POWER?

"I think it could be all three of those things."

"It could be that Aemond did, in fact, see an opportunity to take two dragons off the board with one stone, or was Aegon just in the way?"

"Aegon was never part of the original plan for the battle."

"But with everything that Aegon did and the ringleader status he inhabited in Aemond's childhood, there's an awful lot of evidence to support that."

"What Aemond did was intentional, but whether or not it was premeditated is another thing."

SO WHEN YOU WERE ACTING ALONGSIDE AEGON IN THE LATER EPISODES WHEN THERE'S A CONFRONTATION AT HIS SICK BED, THAT WAS WITH THE KKOWLEDGE OF MALICIOUS INTENT?

"I think so."

"Their relationship is so multifaceted."

"There's a hatred for his brother, but also a certain love that he always craved from him."

"Aegon was supposed to be his big brother."

"He was supposed to look out for him."

"He just never did."

"I thought there was something really fascinating in the fact that Aemond left that marble marker on Aegon’s chest."

"Maybe he left it there for him in a way to say, “The chair's there for you when the war is finished,” or he might've just been pressing the stone marker into his chest to make him hurt that little bit more."

IN EPISODE 8, WE FIRST SEE AEMOND AFTER HE RAZES THE ENTIRETY OF SHARP POINT BECAUSE HE'S MAD ABOUT RHAENYRA'S NEW DRAGON FORCES. WHAT IS GOING THROUGH HIS MIND?

"It's a spur-of-the-moment retaliation."

"He has to overcompensate for this newfound knowledge that Rhaenyra has raised new dragonriders against him and changed the tide of the war."

"Sharp Point, from what I understand of the geography of Westeros, is actually very closely connected to The Gullet."

"Aemond feels like it's justified."

"He's destroying a bit of the Gullet and destroying the blockade that Rhaenyra set up at the beginning of Season 2."

"But ultimately, what he does is atrocious."

WE NEXT SEE HIM TALKING ABOUT THE SMALLFOLK HAVING TO SACRIFICE FOR THE WAR EFFORT. WHAT IS AEMOND SACRIFICING?

It goes back to that moment when Helaena's by the throne Aemond's just gazing up at it and Helaena says, “Was it worth the price?”

"Ultimately, what he sacrificed is his humanity."

"It's that theme that is so prevalent throughout our series: whether love trumps duty or duty trumps love."

"In Aemond's eye, love is a weakness."

WE SEE HIM CONFRONT ALICENT IN THIS EPISODE AND BASICALLY ACCUSE HER OF HAVING TOO MUCH COMPASSION. DOES AEMOND SEE HER AS AN ENEMY? IS THERE ANY AFFECTION REMAINING?

"I think there is."

"One of the main motivations I've played from the beginning of Season 2 was this idea that he wants his mum."

I think he's heartbroken when he says, “Would you not have us prevail?” and she says, “Not like this.”

"That's not part of Aemond's vision."

When he sent Alicent away in Episode 6, he said, “Look, let me deal with the war.”

"You just wait by the margins and then when I've won this war, we can pick up and work on our relationship."

"But the fact that she rebukes him at that moment in Episode 8, he's heartbroken."

"It's horrible for Aemond to comprehend that his mom isn't on his side."

SPEAKING OF WOMEN IN AEMOND'S LIFE, HELAENA GOES TO AEMOND AND ACCUSES HIM OF BURNING AEGON PURPOSEFULLY AND HINTS AT AEMOND'S DEATH. IS HE SHAKEN BY THAT?

"He's definitely shaken."

In an act of desperation, he goes to his sister and says, “Look, you and me, we need to ride out. We need to go to the Riverlands. We need to take out Daemon and destroy all of the influence that he has with the houses of the Riverlands.”

"Aemond is ultimately rebuked by both Alicent and Helaena."

"He's always had this very singular vision of how everything was going to go down."

"But when that starts to get challenged, when he recognizes that Alicent and Helaena aren't on his side, and then when Helaena comes out with this prophecy."

I think a part of him definitely thinks, “Oh no, my sister could be right.”

WHAT CAN WE EXPECT FROM AEMOND IN SEASON 3?

"I think you're going to see someone who's a lot more desperate and a lot more erratic."

"Targaryens were always considered closer to gods than men."

"And what Rhaenyra does at the end of Episode 7 very much challenges and questions the belief that you have to be a legitimate Targaryen to ride a dragon."

"And although their heritage from what we've heard sounds pretty legit, the rest of Westeros doesn’t see that."

"As Aemond says at the end of Episode 8 in that confrontation with his mother and his sister, the people of Westeros ultimately see commonfolk made into dragon lords."

"It very much paints a large target not only on Aemond's back but also on the back of all the Targaryens."

"It compromises their god-like status in a sense."

"And Aemond is definitely going to retaliate."

[prideprejudce]

AU Reds Poster: Alicent joins Rhaenrya as her advisor and wife after escaping her father's influence.

She escapes Kings Landing with Helaena and her grandchildren just in time. Unfortunately, her father has already sunk his teeth into her two sons who are ready to fight for their right to the iron throne. How will Alicent choose between her family and her beloved Rhaenyra when the time comes?

[tweedfrog]

Been reflecting on why HOTD really noticeably dropped off in quality this season and I've been thinking - the central story of the Dance of the Dragons is supposed to be a tragedy right? A family tearing itself apart and killing off these powerful magical creatures they control because of a throne?

Except EYE think that the reason it's not landing well and that they've made weird choices for the main characters *who we should all care for* is because HBO is primarily viewing HOTD as an investment in the larger GoT show ecosystem franchise and not u know. A piece of art to be created.

Tragedy doesn't sell well. Letting characters sit in their grief and discomfort and pain won't help you flog your 18th show in production about idk the wives and adventures of Viserys Plumm. Telling a story where everyone is humanised to some degree and you encourage the audience to sympathise with them although they make bad or evil decisions but then still face consequences for those decisions won't lead to IG content creators making 10 REASONS YOU SHOULD STAN THIS CHARACTER reels. It might lead to critical acclaim like Succession but large numbers of customers are not racing to Target to buy a Kendall Roy FunkoPop.

Idk i feel like a lot of the gripes with ASOIAF adaptations and tv show adaptations in general these days are because studio execs don't view film and TV as an art form to be shown but as a product to be sold to a consumer ideally with tie in merch and brand collabs

[atopvisenyashill]

In the mountains, all he could think of was reaching the Wall and finding the three-eyed crow, but now that they were here he was filled with fears.

[stupid-coon]

Helaena this season

[synchodai]

Not too keen on how the first scene of HotD made show-only viewers think that Aegon the Conqueror diplomatically convinced Torrhen Stark to give up Northern independence because they both believed in stopping a prophesized apocalyptic Long Night because it downplays the brutality of Aegon's Conquest.

Not the show's fault since it is realistic that Cregan and Jace would frame it like an amiable peacetalk given their current goals and circumstances (and they did touch on the intimidation aspect of it). But show-onlies don't get the context that:

Torrhen was the person who started a dialogue with Aegon I, not the other way around.

Aegon didn't fly North to meet with Torrhen. Torrhen was the one who marched south with his armies to stop the man who was burninating the entire countryside.

Because he was marching south, Torrhen saw the utter carnage of Aegon's Conquest. At least three entire dynasties of kings were extinguished at that point. Torrhen was thus faced with the possibility that the entire Stark line would be wiped out like them if he fought.

Aegon and Torrhen exchanged letters at the Riverlands when both their armies were about to meet, but those weren't what convinced Torrhen to kneel. Torrhen had to actively stop his brother Brandon from attacking Aegon's dragons when they got there. The Northern King had already made his mind prior to talking to Aegon that he didn't want to fight.

Aegon's Conquest wasn't him making buddy-buddy with the 6 kings. It was him and his sister-wives intimidating them into submission by threatening to wipe out their families.

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

literally so done with rhaegar antis at this point. we know practically nothing about this character besides all the good things other characters say about him and the fact that robert baratheon hates him and says things about rhaegar that ned disagrees with. and robert baratheon is a pos so being hated by him only does favors for rhaegar’s character imo.

but somehow all these characters who think well of rhaegar are just lying. even though almost all of the characters who have spoken/thought well of rhaegar come from different families and have different allegiances. make it make sense. explain it to me like i’m five. what do jamie and ned have to gain by thinking positively about rhaegar? what about jorah? and barristan?

seriously. stop with the “prophecy obsessed freak” and the “rhaegar was mad” bs. none of this is supported in the books.

for 1) the prophecy is real! this is a fantasy series! and it’s very likely that jon snow (his likely son) is one of the azor ahai/prince that was promised figures! the other completely certain azor ahai figure is his own sister! so yes this prophecy seems to be centered around rhaegar’s family.

2) rhaegar being “mad” is not supported whatsoever. prophecies and magic are very real in asoiaf. so believing/trying to figure out prophecies is not an act of a madman. if anything, we should praise rhaegar for having the foresight to be actively concerned about this world ending threat! he was right. and one mention, if not the first mention, of the song of ice and fire comes from a vision in the house of the undying… from rhaegar. please remember what the title of this series is…

now, it is fair to criticize rhaegar for how he treated elia at the tourney at harrenhall. he was wrong there and that was a terrible thing to do to elia. however, saying that rhaegar was awful to elia throughout their whole marriage is not supported. and saying that rhaegar was awful to his children is not supported at all.

also, getting angry at a fictional character for needing a son to secure the succession to the throne is hilarious, especially since it was necessary for not just rhaegar, but also for elia to secure their own positions at court. they both needed a male heir, but elia needed to have a son more than rhaegar to secure her position. so why are people so mad that rhaegar and elia had aegon? andal tradition says that a son comes before a daughter and a daughter before an uncle… but aerys had viserys to threaten rhaegar with because aerys was king and had the power to change the succession. having aegon was very important for both rhaegar and elias futures and protected rhaenys position as well. just look at what happened to alys karstark when all of her male brothers were gone. she was almost usurped by her uncle. do you really think aerys would let the throne pass to a girl? aerys??

anyways, we don’t know enough about rhaegar and elias relationship to actually make any concrete statements about them, but, from danys house of the undying vision of rhaegar and (likely) elia, their relationship seemed fine and they seemed open with each other. not every marriage of duty ends in nedcat and five kids, but their marriage was clearly far from the robert and cersei nightmare.

another thing rhaegar antis love to harp about is how he is a pedophile. i’m literally so sick of it. rhaegar, someone who seemingly struggled with some form of depression, finally found some joy outside of a marriage of duty. the author himself called rhaegar a love struck prince. ned never thinks ill of rhaegar, even though if the stories robert baratheon would have us believe were true then ned would be the first character who thinks rhaegar is some sort of monster. but ned doesn’t. back to the pedo argument… anyways i have issues with the age gap as well. but i know where to lay my criticism. with george. he’s weird about ages and it pisses me off. however, i won’t let this change the way i see a character, especially since westeros doesn’t have any age of consent laws.

god just criticize george already.

but to be clear, rhaegar, a tragic character who died trying to protect his family, who’s daughter hid underneath his bed for protection, is not some monster. he was born in grief, lived in grief, found some joy, and died whispering the name of the woman he loved. that’s sad. and it’s horrible that he’s blamed for his family’s deaths even though he fought and died trying to protect them. and then robert baratheon sat on his throne and drunk and whored the realm into debt. thank you mr. boar. and good riddance. cersei slayed with this one.

now if you want to blame someone for the war and what came after, then blame aerys for his cruelty. blame brandon for his foolishness. blame robert for his warmongering. blame tywin for his monstrous actions. blame gregor and amory for their terrible violence.

stop blaming the guy who died trying to protect his loved ones.

and tbh, we literally have so little knowledge of what happened before the rebellion and after harrenhall. we just don’t know what happened between rhaegar and lyanna besides what george has told us and whatever small scraps we get in the book. we don’t know if it was a rash decision or if there was some plan in place when rhaegar and lyanna ran off. we just don’t know.

so please stop treating your headcanons like canon facts. especially when your headcanon isn’t supported anywhere in the books! it’s so tiring to see! i get it! you hate this character! whatever! but stop acting like what you’re saying is canon!

rhaegar is simply a ghost haunting the narrative. but his legacy lives on in dany and (likely) jon. and both of them are saviors fighting the good fight. and based on the descriptions we have of rhaegar, i can say that he’s likely very proud of his sister and son.

[horizon-verizon]

My prediction is thus: They’ll say the prophecy is meant to add “layers/nuance” to the story of the Dance, but really it’s meant to distract and dilute from how much the story is about misogyny. It will act as a way to pivot the conversation and make it seem as though Rhaenyra had a hand in her own fate and femicide, waylaid by her conviction in the prophecy to the detriment of the realm. That’s easier to pitch and makes her fate easier to swallow to audiences than if it remains as it were in the book. With the prophecy, the writers can say that she was wrong to become so deluded by it and obsessed with it to the point of fighting a war. Without it, they’ll be forced to try and convince people Rhaenyra was wrong to fight for her claim when she was usurped for being a woman, and they can’t say that because they’re aware that’s sexist bullshit.

Perhaps I wouldn’t have such a cynical view of what they’re trying to accomplish with the prophecy’s inclusion if they hadn’t already worked SO HARD to erase the misogyny of the Greens and their supporters, as well as what Rhaenyra’s struggle means for other women who wish to rule.

They carefully pick and choose which traits and quotes of the green/black allies to include: Borros Baratheon is proud and illiterate, but doesn’t call Rhaenyra a bitch and doesn’t give his speech about the Iron Throne needing to pass to a man. Grover Tully is old and dying, but whereas in the book his misogyny is what seems to be his driving life force in his final days, the show has him unable to express whatever opinions he might have on women ruling. Jeyne Arryn’s whole speech on women needing to band together in the world of men is cut, leaving her only “I mislike feeling powerless.” No mention of her own struggles to rule as a woman and how her male relatives sought to usurp her because of her gender. Oscar Tully actually seems to receive her book speech, but rewritten for his circumstances, which of course won’t include mentions of gender.

EDIT: Lifted from Twitter, LINK (by ace_pencil)

I've argued similar, so of course I agree.

It will act as a way to pivot the conversation and make it seem as though Rhaenyra had a hand in her own fate and femicide, waylaid by her conviction in the prophecy to the detriment of the realm. That’s easier to pitch and makes her fate easier to swallow to audiences than if it remains as it were in the book. With the prophecy, the writers can say that she was wrong to become so deluded by it and obsessed with it to the point of fighting a war.

Yes, and that plotline of her becoming so zealous in her dragon-god ruthlessness becoming into a mad-Queen situation is also apparent.

They certainly do not want the misogyny show!Rhaenyra faces in the shows more personal experience (Alicent's actions against her, the council and the embarrassment, Rhaenyra's own council in the 2nd season, Alfred Broome trying to convince Daemon and his own reasoning) to go outward towards how the greens and their supporters and even apart from them--seeing the sexism not just against Rhaenyra or Alicent but other female characters in other castles they could have introduced...like Jeyne Arryn before and during her rule before Jacaerys should have reached her.

they hadn’t already worked SO HARD to erase the misogyny of the Greens and their supporters, as well as what Rhaenyra’s struggle means for other women who wish to rule.

As it is, HotD only shows people's (blatant or sublte) sexism when it concerns Rhaenyra & Alicent or when those two or around to directly deal with such. And, as you state, the greens (which always refer to Alicent AND her sons) own expressed misogyny is shown more towards Alicent than to Rhaenyra. In fact, I can't recall a single word or act Aemond or Aegon has said about Rhaenyra sexistly that doesn't come from Jaehaerys' own death. And doesn't that make it so much more amenable to believe/feel only Alicent and Rhaenyra are the ones we should care about, that Rhaenyra's prospective rule doesn't mean much aside from her herself--and yeah a boy would have ruled after her, but there's a stronger precedent set after a queen regnant rules regardless...sneaky--, etc. It's annoying and narrow-minded and worse, it serves the "misogyny doesn't have that much of an impact on social conditions", which is a contradictory statemen tin of itself since sexism and male privilege CERTAINLY defines much of how resources or distributed and how much social support or graces women are allowed in Western AND other societies since....ever. Male primogeniture, hello?

Or perhaps, they thought that sexism would speak for itself and be enough to their audience if they held back?...please, as if.

Interesting you say that about Oscar Tully. They also, I think, didn't say or use his grandfather's insistence that Aegon was the ruler bc he was male and that he deliberately held back his sons and armies bc he himself supported Aegon over Rhaenyra. Simply bc she was a woman. As I mentioned in passing, all of Aemond's absurd sexist comments, gone. They think Aegon's angry badmouthing her as he went berserk after Jaehaerys died is enough, but what they don't seem to care about is that making Aegon say all that while mourning just makes it easier for already-male-gracing audiences to espouse he was "just" grieving and angry...a behavior they would never and didn't grace show!Dany when Missandei dies, when Rhaego and Drogon die for book!Dany, or even Rhaenyra when her own sons died one by one. Or any woman, for that matter.

[lemonhemlock]

happy hump day, it’s almost friday!!

imma need some people to stop acting like tg characters have hurt alicent more than tb.

there’s this weird thing where some people try to “excuse” alicent’s “wrongs”—which is something the writers did themselves with the prophecy instead of exploring aegon’s political claim + the danger alicent’s kids are in imo (im still annoyed with this choice, women are allowed to be angry, why can’t alicent be angry about her abuse and her abusers 😭 the prophecy doesn’t even make sense in this series)—by making it seem like she’s being held hostage or pushed around by her children and father (and any bond she may have with them is conditional—her father sees her solely as a pawn, criston is only there because he doesn’t like rhayenra, alicent is secretly disgusted by her children and would be relieved if she can leave their side as long as she can ensure safety) , and if it were up to her she’d happily side with the same people who ruined her life.

at the end of the day, the only people who stood by alicent’s side and tried to protect her and her family were tg—criston, her kids, even her dad. rhaenyra and co threw her 10 year old under the bus, gaslit and played her in front the entire court, accused her of poisoning/taking advantage of viserys’s illness to take control of the court etc.

like, i’m sorry but if i wanted to watch a woman drag herself because she’s opposing someone who arguably has hurt her more than any tg character (larys has them beat but still), I’d watch a novela. the amount of abuse they put a female protagonist through in order to create drama and extend the series for 100+ episodes only to end it with her happily running into the arms of the same man who publicly humiliated her, cheated on her, used her etc is lowkey the vibe I get from some rhaencient stans nglngl.

(It’s hard out here being a proshipper rhaencient enjoyer…not anymore tho!!)

in my country for chronically online millennials wednesday is frog meme day so here's me keeping my side of the bargain:

i agree overall abt alicent being angrier. she should have been more focused on crowning aegon than she was on rhaenyra. she should have been aware of the plot and on board with it. that could have been done without sacrificing her compassion or her nostalgic, residual feelings of friendship and love towards rhaenyra. ultimately this is what happens when you have different writers for each episode and no one gives them clear indications re: where the character is at & corrects the scripts for OOC behaviour. everyone has their different take on a character's journey, but at the end of the day there should be someone with a red pen in hand making sure the development is linear. that's why alicent is bitchy is one episode, then appeasing in the next

loved the comparison with the telenovelas 😅

as an aside, i've had a few anon conversations in my aegon's prophecy tag if anyone's interested

[odetoalibrary]

Aegon’s chasm of insecurity, the first real sight of his bond with Sunfyre, his desire to be loved by his mother, the desire to prove himself which drives him to spontaneously ride his dragon to a battlefield…

All far more interesting to me than Rhaenerya’s monologue on how she is Viserys’s rightful heir because of a prophecy.

We don’t NEED these people to have a noble cause to root for them. Especially when it’s so ham-fistedly done. I’m not a monarchist, none of these people deserve to rule over Westeros. I want to see who can make me FEEL for them the most and the 2003 chosen one archetype isn’t doing it for me

[randomestfandoms-ocs]

Daenyra Targaryen ✤ The Prophecy​

Daenyra Targaryen had never wanted to be fostered at Winterfell, although no one had cared for her opinion on the matter. Her grandfather insisted that it was necessary to foster an alliance with House Stark, no further discussion welcome or required. And so Daenyra made her way North, to what would almost be her doom. Within her first moon at Winterfell, an attempt was made on her life, and it was only thanks to Cregan Stark's quick reflexes that Daenyra survived. But it was clear, the North was no safe place for a dragon. After much persuasion, Daenyra secured Cregan's assistance in her own plan, to disappear beyond the wall until they could determine who had paid for her to die. Life beyond the Wall was nothing like Daenyra had expected, changing her in ways that she had never imagined possible. And with those changes came the dreams. A realm at war, dragons fighting dragons, death and destruction until no Targaryens remained. Beyond the Wall, with nothing but ice and a dragon for company, Daenyra began to plan. But in all of her plans, and all of her dreams, there was one thing that she had never seen coming. For Jace Velaryon to visit the Wall and discover that his lost aunt still lived.

Fandom: House Of The Dragon

Face Claim: Anya Taylor Joy

Love Interest: Aegon Targaryen & Jacaerys Valeryon

Theme song: The Prophecy, Taylor Swift

Pinterest: x

Playlist: tbd

( format / layout insp​ )

Tag List: @airwolf92– want to be added?

[queenvhagar]

A: Is everything alright Your Grace?

V: ...You know what? ...I named her to protect the realm from Daemon. She was my only child. "The Realm's Delight"... I named her out of love, and because I no longer believed...

A: Believed what, my love?

V: Many in my line have been dragonriders. Very few among us have been dreamers... What is the power of a dragon against the power of prophecy?

A: The hour is too late, husband.

V: When Rhaenyra was a child, I saw it in a dream. As vivid as these flames I saw it.

V: A male babe, born to me, wearing the Conqueror's crown. I so wanted it to be true. To be a dreamer myself. I sought that vision again, night after night, but it never came again. I poured all my thought and will into it. My obsession killed Rhaenyra's mother...

A: Viserys...

V: I thought Rhaenyra was my way out of the abyss of grief and regret, and naming her heir would begin to set things right... I never imagined I would remarry. That I would have a son... What if I was wrong?

V: I'm sorry, but you wanted to know... If I believe it to be true.

A: Believe what to be true, my King?

V: Don't you remember? Aegon...

A: Our son?

V: His dream...

V: The song of ice and fi- ...It is true. What he saw in the north... The prince that was promised...

A: I don't understand, Viserys.

V: The prince...

A: Prince Aegon?

V: To unite the realm against the cold and the dark... It is you. You are the one. You must do this... You must do this.

We as the audience know that in his delirious state Viserys thinks he is talking to Rhaenyra and that he's referencing the dream whose prophecy Aegon the Conqueror inscribed on the Valyrian steel blade. But Viserys only ever told Alicent about one prophetic dream: the one he dreamt of his son becoming the King of the Seven Kingdoms, wearing the Conqueror's crown.

For Alicent, this is the only dream that Viserys could be referencing. Facing the end of his days, Viserys tells Alicent that he believes his dream was true prophecy and that he was a true dreamer. In his last words to her, with the last of his energy, he implores her that she must help him realize it. In his last moments, Viserys believes that in order to unite the realm against threats Alicent must help make his dream come true.

Is it convenient for her to hear this from Viserys? Yes. Would the Green Council have crowned Aegon II anyway, with or without Alicent's support? Yes. Would she have supported her child's claim without having heard Viserys' final words? Likely. But it's clear that for Alicent, Viserys could only be referencing the dream he told her by the fire the night of Aegon's name day hunt, a secret that only she in the entire world knows and has the power to do anything about.