#ace discourse tag for ts

[officialaspec]

Every time I see an exclusionist say "aros and aces are valid but they need to make their own community and stay out of the LGBT" I want to scream.

WE DID. Aspec people did make "our own" community. We had our own tags on Tumblr; we had our own terms and symbols and safe spaces and jokes. We had our own areas for us to express ourselves and come to terms with our feelings. We had a place to talk to others who were like us. We had a place to exist.

Want to know what happened to it?

EXCLUSIONISTS HAPPENED.

You exclusionists tore it apart. You shoved your way in and lied and manipulated and threatened and bullied a marginalized group back into the closet. You made fun of our terms, and the words we use to describe ourselves.

And now that aspec people are fighting back? All of you cowards are back to "oh well you're valid just not elgeebeetee!!!!! make your own community uwu"

Shut the fuck up. If you don't even know our fucking history, then you have no say in where we do or don't belong. Aspec people have shown you the historical accounts that mention ace people, we've told you about the things we face, we've told you about how we tried to make our own spaces, we've told you all of it and yet there are still exclusionists who will see all this and still not give a fuck.

Exclusionism is hatred and bigotry. That's it. If you're an exclusionist, you're a hateful bigoted aphobic asshole. You're part of a group that proudly bullies and threatens and straight up posts hateful shit about aro and ace people and states it proudly and if you can read those words and not think that something is wrong with that then fuck you.

[keshetchai]

You're a fucking star for even bothering to compose a coherent reply to that antisemitic asexual "oppression" nonsense, thank you so much

Honestly at this point, I have nothing to lose, and too much frustration to keep letting this shit slide. I’ve already had other conversion students defending this kind of gentile nonsense (or acting foolish themselves) block me for being a big meanie “aphobe” to their friends/people they were encouraging when I said that continuing calling Jewish people paranoid or saying they were overreacting or must be bigots over the “dovecourse” was antisemitic.  And when I pointed out making a block list that combined actual nazis and predators with Jewish people was fucking evil and dangerous (and then someone said they felt objecting to this list of nazis alongside Jewish people was an abuser tactic, which like, alright…then. That’s between them and their converting rabbi, I guess.)

it’s not a secret or a surprise that much of the discourse that revolves around asexuality has had a whole lot of people being antisemitic as fuck, being racist as fuck, or being homophobic and transphobic as fuck. I think by a lot of definitions I count as “ace” but this shit has been on-going for years now, and hasn’t really improved an ounce. And all it does is hurt ace people by demonizing healthy ways of dealing with, approaching, or discussing sexual needs/wants/desires or lack thereof! and also…yanno…hurting people with all the racism/antisemitism/homophobia/transphobia. 

[Follow-up where the dovecourse people continue to mock people by implying a pokemon is a nazi eagle because haha upsetting Jewish people is hilarious!, and people try to claim the post was from “months ago” and not…literally four days before that post. ] 

Plus there was an article that concluded the issue was that Jewish people were just bigoted! That’s the real problem!

No really, here’s the text:

while few Jewish people have indeed expressed discomfort at the supposed similarity, they are generally, if not always, also aphobic.

And because in addition to being willing to write off all Jewish people, they’re also a complete dingus, they used the Coat of Arms of the Kingdom of Prussia as an example of one of a “number of other birds [reminiscent of the Reichsadler] I assumed aphobic tumblr would have focused its efforts on by now that have gone unnoticed.” 

Just like…did no one tell them Prussian empire preceded the Prussian Republic, which SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!! was overthrown by the Nazi party in Germany? Of course the Prussian coat of arms looks like the Nazi Reichsadler you mildewed pierce of toast, it is THE SAME GODDAMN BIRD!!!!!!!!!! No one argues that the Nazi Reichsadler is “reminiscent” of the Prussian coat of arms because it is literally the same exact thing except for sometimes it’s head is turned in a particular direction or it has a swastika holy shit. 

Or wait, even more follow up of the first person comparing people who might be uncomfortable being called q-eer (due to a history of dealing with homophobic abuse) is pretty much like using the Nazi playbook! (Awhile later they maybe claimed they were going to convert so….here’s hoping they realize how awful they were being for mocking Jewish people over this.) 

Making claims of antisemitism or concern about it was made into a complete joke - followed by a rapid increase of Godwin’s law over everything: here, here, Courteousmingler (who harasses rape survivors) claiming objecting to the dove is a fascist technique, also that “we’re just like the jews!!!” forgetting of the holocaust post, more on the accusing of jewish people of being paranoid, more, and more - it’s not as if they weren’t told nicely. These may be 10+ months old now, but don’t worry, peregeisisvoid is still using ill-thought out images, like this one placing Anne Frank alongside slaveowners. And also they made badly written tentacle porn kink fanfiction and then tried to claim that aphobes thought it was just as bad as the “perceived antisemitism” talked about in the dovecourse meaning the jewish people who complained were the REAL! antisemites!!! 

Or how about the person who tried to use the word “Goy” in order to prove some kind of point about….well, I don’t really know, the unrelated word allosexual? Because why not use Jewish people and ideas as your irrelevant prop?

i swear i don’t have the patience to accept this tripe. 

[d-stabilize]

The term allo is primarily used to describe aroallo and aceallo ppl within the ace and aro community. No one is calling gay ppl "dirty allos" if you think that get your head out of your ass.

[fairytalesandfandoms]

Okay not to get Discoursey here but anyway this is something I’ve been thinking about

You know those posts that are always used as examples of ‘aces derailing posts that aren’t about them’? Mostly it seems to me just like a misuse or misunderstanding of language.

For example, when someone makes a post about gay culture, and an ace person adds ‘I’m ace, does that count?’ often I don’t think that it’s an ace person trying to claim that ace is the same thing as gay. The problem here is that ‘gay’ is often used casually as an umbrella term e.g. ‘the gay community’, when what they actually mean is ‘the queer/LGBTQ+ community’. I think a lot of the time when ace people say ‘do aces count?’ what they mean is ‘are you using the word ‘gay’ as an umbrella term to refer to anyone who’s queer, or are you using it to refer to gay men and/or lesbians specifically?’ But then someone (sometimes the OP, sometimes another person) thinks it’s incredibly witty to contribute ‘smh aces aren’t gay lol’ (which ignores that ace LG people exist, of course).

Another problem I see is vague language. For example, someone equating not being straight with liking the same binary gender. ‘Not straight’ is a very broad term which covers a variety of identities. Like, aces and aros aren’t straight, but they might not necessarily also be a wlw or mlm! There are bi and ply people who like multiple genders but not their own! There are nonbinary people who don’t have a ‘same gender’! And often these people (who tend to get missed out of posts) try to correct the OP. 

I’m not sure how to finish this, but I’ll give it a go. Do people sometimes address these things in a less-than-polite way? Yes. Do they sometimes post comments without thinking through the implications of their words? Absolutely. But try to understand where people are coming from rather than just jumping on them for misunderstanding.

[thegeminisage]

I'm young and I don't know the AVEN discourse. Explain please?

(re: this & this post)

…oohhhhhh boy idk if i want this discourse on my blog but i guess i left myself open to this nobody send me mean messages please i’m old and i’m tired

anyway i don’t remember every detail because i had long since moved to tumblr and hadn’t touched my AVEN acct in ages (so PLEASE dont quote me on this unless you can find more sources), BUT as i recall, the issue was basically that some people on the forums who were sex-repulsed were starting to become sex-negative (slut-shamey? what do we call this without getting bricks thrown at us), which they thought was new and revolutionary! because wow, all this time everyone’s been making us feel like broken unlovable robots or whatever for not wanting to have sex! and our world is saturated with sex and everyone is obsessed with it! but not US, the asexuals! plot twist, we’re not broken after all, we’re BETTER than all you libido-driven animals! what a relief! it’s finally our turn to feel superior!

…except, obviously, shaming other people for having sex (especially women and queer people), and acting superior because you don’t have sex, is not at all new or revolutionary in the wider scope of things, in fact it’s as old fuck and super shitty, and you shouldn’t do that ever. i mean not only is that line of thought harmful to women and queer people, which is bad, it’s also harmful to other aces, because plenty of ace people, gray-aces or sex-neutral aces or whatever, also have sex or experience attraction, albeit in a limited way. and when you limit asexuality to being “””above””” sexual desires/activity you lock a lot of people out of your community and there’s gatekeeping from people who once got excluded themselves and while it comes from a place of pain pretty much every ace/arospec person can relate to it’s still an ouroboros of bad discourse and super harmful behavior and just overall not a good way to be. 

at least, i think so, and a bunch of other people thought so, so they split from the forums and a bunch of people complained about the forums on tumblr and a bunch of people complained about tumblr on AVEN and tumblr and AVEN both complained about themselves amongst themselves, and then we found new things to argue about, like whether or not aces were all really just repressing themselves due to internalized homophobia (gagging noises) or if we were all just straight people who wanted to feel special (gagging intensifies) and i guess everybody chilled out about that particular discourse. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and thats ur history lesson for the day

edit: that may be why this and this particular faq entry exist hahahahaha

[tstwitterupdates]

I’ve recently been seeing a lot people in my feed defending Thomas against haters. Confused, I looked up the “anti-TS” tag in an attempt to figure out where the supposed hate was coming from (probably not the best idea). I couldn’t find a single real complaint. They were all really stupid, petty things like he’s openly gay. He likes Disney. He likes Steven Universe. He has a show featuring “multiple personalities.” He “misleads” his audience by rarely addressing his age. Am I missing something?

well i don’t know what you saw before looking up that tag but i can try to explain some stuff.

first, that “anti-TS” tag is probably the one where terfs go to hate on him and spread horrible rumors for absolutely no reason. their reason is that they got mad at him back in 2017 for being inclusive of ace people in the community, and from there they just went looking for reasons to be mad. as far as i know, though, most fanders don’t interact with them anymore. maybe you saw more recent fanders that only found out about these rumors and hate posts and are trying to defend Thomas, not knowing the story behind it.

the other option is that you saw people defending Thomas from people criticizing the managing decisions of his team, which is a more recent discourse. lately, people use the tag “ts criticism” to complain about stuff like the lack of content, how the patreon is managed, the decisions for the Sanders Sides story, etc. and usually they are opinions that aren’t harming anyone nor damaging Thomas in any way, they’re not hating him as a person, just criticizing work decisions that they don’t like or that have actually hurt them in some way. still, some fanders don’t think these complaints are legitimate and think the people complaining are attacking Thomas personally.

so idk. maybe this helps? if not, send me another ask and i can try to explain more. i don’t know everything that happens in the fandom, but i’ve been here for a while 😅

[eepyness]

Hi um heres my about ig

~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆

About

Ren or Nico

Minor

They/xe/vaey/he

TME enby panro demi

My pronouny

White

Gentile

Singlet

Scorpio Sun, Sagittarius Moon, Libra Rising

Neurodivergent and mentally ill (undiagnosed)

Don't make fun of me or my interests and don't vaguepost about me (RSD innit)

Don't start arguments with me or ask me about discourse I Do Not care I can't be asked

~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆~☆

Tagging

I tag triggers as #tw ___, #___ tw or #___ mention

Mutuals tag transphobia, panphobia, any rabies mentions, curses and hexes

Catchall is #Ren don't look

Also tag long posts

If you want something tagged shoot me an ask! Nothing is too small or silly! (If it's far down the blog I would appreciate if you provided a link to the post)

I don't tag fandom but if a certain fandom/character/ship is triggering for you I can start tagging it, no problem

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Interests

Rrverse (not on main)

Atla

Spop

Art

Greek mythology

History

Psychology

Disclaimer: I am heavily critical of all of the media I consume

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Sideblogs

@aprincehasgottaslay -> my ts sides blog (not really active)

@catboydiangelo -> my rrverse blog

@dailynicos -> daily nico di angelo doodles

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Opinions

Inclus - believe that all ace and aro people are lgbt and support bi, pan, e.c.t

Tucute - believe that you don't need dysphoria to be trans.

Support neopronouns, microlabels, xenogenders and mogai identities.

Support nonbinary lesbians and lesbians who use pronouns other than she/her (e.g. he/him lesbians and they/them lesbians)

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Art

I always try to add image descriptions to my own art and posts (if you find a post without one feel free to add and ID I would really appreciate it)

Don't repost my art, however I might let you edit my art if you ask and if you add credit where it can clearly be see

You can use my art as an icon, just be sure to add credit

[imtoobiforyou]

What's discourse? And do people ship Thomas with Joan or Thomas with Talyn or any of his other friends? (I'm not saying I do, or asking if you do!!)

Hey nonnie! Discourse, as I understand, is heated discussion surrounding a controversial topic. It's the widely used term for posts on divisive subjects on this site. The biggest example I can think of off the top of my head is "ace discourse", between exclusionists and decent people (haha...). I usually tag any discourse because conflict and negativity isn't welcome to a lot of people, not to mention trigger them if they are especially sensitive to the topic.

The TS fandom is usually free of discourse, but it sometimes fires up when something big happens in the fandom. Some people do not want discourse about the thing they like on their dash, so I tag them specifically as "fandom discourse". Think of the whole shebang around Deceit when he first appeared, negative takes on characters' actions, and the most recent RemRom "incest" discourse.

Do people ship Thomas with Joan or his other friends? I sure hope they don't. First off Joan is dating Talyn. Also it's not okay to ship real people, at least on my watch.

There are some comments and such that jokingly ship Thomas and Joan, and they jokingly play into it too with suggestive editing in their videos, but I don't think I have seen anyone actually seriously ship rps(real person shipping) in this fandom.

[melanchole]

Y'know, I actually liked your blog. I'm gonna unfollow it though. I found your ace discourse tag and it's full of just mean shit. Sorry for identifying as LGBT, because from experience the straights don't want me. I no longer feel welcome to your blog being aroace. You wouldn't want me to judge all black people based off of the actions of a few troublesome ones. A handful of bad eggs doesn't make the whole ace community rotten. Stop holding us to a higher standard than the Ls, Gs, Bs, and Ts.

okay. didn't once ask for this small novel but, like, okay.

[fuckyeahasexual]

hello! i heard someone say that mainstream lgbt organisations used just lgbt until aces threatened them to include them, is this true? (im ace and i've just been going through discourse and this came up and im actually kind of upset abt it)

threatened, lol please with fucking what? Include us or we will keep tweeting you is literally all I've seen aces do to ""force our way in"".I've literally seen a REG promise to withhold hundreds of dollars from a suicide hotline because it was ace inclusive. A hotline, mind you, that wasn't even ""pestered"" into inclusion. They literally were like so aces keep calling us, can some aces talk to us about keeping them safe?Tags acephobia tw for ts

[hellyeahagender]

hey! i wanted to say i respect your position on not getting involved in discourse and not posting it here and wanted to know if you had any advice for how others can follow suit? im not involved in discourse and dont go seeking it out but i still end up seeing a lot of it on my dash anyway and id rather not. ty

Hello anon, thanks for the question.

Mainly what it comes down to is a lot of blacklisting, unfollowing, and blocking without remorse. I’ll break it down into the different ways the discourse comes up and how you can avoid it.

If someone you follow has suddenly started posting discourse that you

agree with but still don’t want to see, blacklist or ts whatever discourse tags they use; if they don’t use any tags send them a polite ask requesting that they do.  If they say yes, blacklist said tags. If they refuse, unfollow them.

disagree with but don’t consider it to be so terrible that it’s a dealbreaker, follow the above steps. if their opinions ever do get to a place where you feel that they are a dealbreaker, unfollow them. if it’s particularly severe, block them (which will automatically cause you to unfollow them as well)

disagree with and consider to be so terrible that you never want anything to do with the person again, block them immediately.

An issue you might encounter (or are possibly currently dealing with) is having to reconcile finding out that someone you have followed or known for years and liked and even respected actually holds some really disgusting views. The fact that you liked them and previously had a high opinion of them can cloud your judgment and make you hesitate in unfollowing/blocking them even when they start posting things on a regular basis that cause you stress, harm you emotionally/mentally, or just otherwise make your dash a shitty place to be. From experience I can tell you that hesitating in unfollowing/blocking these people is only prolonging the inevitable. They’re not going to all of a sudden stop thinking disgusting things or posting about them and you’re not all of a sudden going to stop being hurt by those things. The fact that you liked having them on your dash before does not change the fact that you dread having them on it now and it’s what’s happening now that matters. If you want to unfollow or block someone and the only thing holding you back is how much you used to like having them on your dash, consider this your permission to unfollow them immediately and find new people you’re more suited to.

If someone you follow has started reblogging discourse in order to call it out and you

agree with them but don’t want to see, block whoever they’re calling out and blacklist whatever discourse tags the person you follow is using. if they don’t use tags, ask them to politely. if they say yes, blacklist said tags. if they refuse, consider whether this untagged discourse is worth unfollowing them over. if it is, unfollow them.

agree with them but are torn between not wanting to see the discourse and wanting to be aware of gross people on tumblr so you can block them, be aware of your mental health at all times and whether or not seeing these things on your dash is getting to be too much. if it is, follow the previous bullet point. if not, blacklist the name of the person/people being called out and then block them.

disagree with them but not so terribly that it’s a dealbreaker, blacklist whatever discourse tags they use. if they don’t use tags, politely ask them to. if they say yes, block said tags. if they refuse, unfollow them.

disagree with them and consider their opinion to be so terrible that you never want anything to do with the person again, block them.

If discourse has suddenly started showing up in tags you track/frequent that you

agree with but don’t want to see, blacklist the discourse tags the poster uses; if the poster does not use any discourse tags but frequently posts things you DO want to see in the tag send them an ask politely requesting that they start using discourse tags. if they do, blacklist said tags. if they refuse,  decide whether you care more about seeing their other posts or not seeing the discourse. if it’s the latter, blacklist their username or flat-out block them.

disagree with but not so terribly that it’s a dealbreaker and the poster frequently posts things you DO want to see, blacklist the discourse tags the poster uses; if the poster does not use any discourse tags, consider asking them to start using them. if you do not want to ask or do not feel comfortable doing so, blacklist the poster’s name. if you ask and they agree, black list said tags. if you ask and they refuse, blacklist the username or block the poster.

disagree with and consider to be so terrible that you never want anything to do with the person again, block them. even if they make really pretty edits or awesome art or whatever, it’s not worth it.

And in general it’s a good idea to blacklist or block:

the actual word ‘discourse’

any ___ discourse tags (e.g. ‘fandom discourse’, ‘ace discourse’, ‘bi discourse’, etc)

the words/tags ‘exclusionist’ and ‘inclusionst’ + ‘exclusionists’ and ‘inclusionists’

anyone with the word ‘discourse’ in their username or blog description

anyone whose blog seems to be 100% solely dedicated to discourse

anyone with the word ‘aphobe’ in their username or blog description

anyone who posts discourse in positivity tags or other non-discourse tags

anyone who refuses to tag discourse

anyone you see suicide baiting, sending death threats, or otherwise harassing ‘discoursers’  or just random people they disagree with

Beyond all that, you just want to start following people who have the same stance on this as you do and are dedicated to not getting involved and not giving a platform to some of the toxic, abusive voices out there. If you want to engage in serious discussions about some of the issues that discoursers (badly) touch on there are plenty of blogs around who do it in a calm, rational, well thought out, and non-reactionary manner. And if you want nothing to do with any of those topics then there are also plenty of people on tumblr who are very solid about not posting about them at all. It’s just a matter of finding them.

[deprofundisclamoadte]

edit: please do NOT re/blog

So since I’ve gotten some new followers recently, I just want to make my position on the a/ce discourse very clear:

All asexual/aromantic/agender/ace-spectrum people are a part of the community.

If you feel differently and want to debate this, there are plenty of bloggers who are ready and willing to do so. I am not one of them. Polite inquiries will be answered; any hostile messages will be deleted/blocked. 

I don’t post about this very often. When I do, I always tag the discourse posts as ‘ace discourse for ts’. Feel free to unfollow if you need.

[mkkorantanen]

i feel u about the ace discourse thing... i think the biggest reason exclusionists r really adamant about not having cishet aces in the lgbt community is bc since they're cis and het they are much more likely to be homophobic/transphobic so that kinda defeats the point of having a community but like. yeah idk

that makes sense. thanks :)