#a little bit of ancient Greece/Rome

[manichewitz]

why is it that 90% of criticism of the song of achilles just boils down to not accepting the conventions of romance as a genre and wanting it to simply be a different book than what it is? because seriously if you can’t get with the fact that the song of achilles is a queer romance story first and a retelling of the iliad second you’re never gonna make a criticism of it that’s interesting to me. if i wanted to read a book that was accurate to the source material then i would just read the iliad. if i wanted to read a queer romance unfolding on the backdrop of a mythical war i would read the song of achilles. if you dont understand the difference between those two things then your beef with that book is just a waste of time to me

[literallyjusttoa]

I have been obsessed with the idea of Paris coming to the modern day in the same way Midas, Lityerses, and Medea did. Like, If anybody had some unfinished business, it's every citizen of Troy. Anyway here are some different little scenarios I've cooked up about how this silly little war criminal fared after making a mad dash for the doors of death in HoO.

Ok, so in this scenario, Paris is recruited by Gaea just like all the other spirits who come back from the dead. He ends up being tasked with working alongside Octavian. At first, he's driven only by grief and anger at the loss of his own family and city. As they approach Camp Half-Blood, Paris regularly remarks on how happy he is that's he'll be the one storming the walls this time. But over time, he slowly finds himself growing worried about Octavian's sanity. He tries to steer Octavian away from making reckless decisions, but Octavian refuses to back down. Paris sees the deadly fervor of his fellow soldiers in Octavian, and pulls away. From here we split off into two endings. 1. (the sad one) Octavian's fate plays out the same as the books and Paris just has to deal with how his actions unintentionally spurred the young man towards his own death. Or 2. (the happy one) Paris leaving is the wake-up call Octavian needs, and he pulls himself out of battle at the last second, breaking the cycle of hatred and wrath that started at Troy. Pick your fighter I guess.

In this scenario, Paris is not the only one who comes back from the doors of death. Half of the Argo II crew find him in Ancient Greece (Don't ask why he's there instead of Turkey idk shhhhh) And he's very helpful to them in whatever quest they're trying to complete at the time. All's well that ends well, except the OTHER half of the Argo II crew actually just met up with Hector on the other side of Greece lol. Turns out neither brother knows the other is alive, and the Argo II take the time to reunite the pair. I would specifically set this in BoO, and have the focus be on Jason and Leo as parallels for Hector and Paris, especially with them both thinking about sacrificing themselves bc of the prophecy (the whole "storm or fire" thing). Like, my idea is that a lot of emphasis would be put on Hector dying first, and how he sacrificed for Troy, and how Paris wishes he could've saved Hector. And Jason would come away from that thinking "Yes, I want to be Hector, i've made peace with making the final sacrifice to keep my friends safe" and Leo thinking "I'll do what Paris couldn't and give my life so that Jason doesn't have to" and ahhhh angst.

This is a ToA scenario instead of an HoO scenario. Paris and one of his siblings come back to life like in the last one, but instead of it being Hector, this time it's Cassandra. Idk when this would happen in the timeline of ToA, bc those books are so tight knit (maybe the infamous TTT to TON roadtrip) But I would add a little side quest where Apollo and Meg have to find Cassandra bc Nero's trying to kidnap her or smth. They run into Paris while they're searching for Cassandra, and the three of them team up for a lil bit. In this scenario, Paris works as a direct parallel to Apollo, all though he's a bit further behind on his redemption journey. Basically, Apollo feels like he's looking at slightly embarrassing old pictures of himself. When they find Cassandra, Apollo offers a genuine apology for everything he did to her. Emboldened by Apollo's example, Paris also opens up to Cassandra in a way he'd never done before. The two are finally able to air out their shared grief from Troy, and they set out to ... idk New Rome or the Waystation or smth. Either way they're a lot closer as siblings now, and Apollo promises to visit them once the Trials are over.

Of course, these are only my ideas that kinda fit into canon, I have a whole bunch more that go entirely off the rails. Anyways this pathetic little failure of a man has bewitched my body and soul or whatever I love rolling him around like a balled up chewing gum wrapper.

[ozwriterchick]

Spencer Reid fic...

A/Note: This is my first Spencer Reid fic so please be kind. This fic is thanks to @navybrat817 who convinced me to give it a go when I had no faith in being able to write this loveable character.

Characters: Spencer Reid, Other BAU team members; Reader (1 mention of Y/N)

CW: Secret relationship; a bit of angst but not much; some fluff; happy ending; Spencer being a forgetful genius (yes, he's a warning); If i missed anything, let me know

W/C: Approx 2080

Dividers by @firefly-graphics

“Spence, you promised.” You sighed.  This was not the start to your morning you had expected.

Your fiancée, Dr Spencer Reid, lifted his head from his breakfast reading material with a confused look on his face.  He might be a genius with an eidetic memory and one of the main players in the FBI’s famed Behavioural Analysis Unit at Quantico, but he seemed to easily forget the most basic things.

His confusion only lasted until he saw the stack of envelopes in your hand.  “I was supposed to send those, wasn’t I?” he asked.

“They were supposed to go out a week ago Spencer.  The RSVP date is next week!” you reiterated.

“I’m sorry Maat, I’ll send them today.”

You blushed, after all this time, the pet name he gave you when he found out your job and obsession still works on you.

On your 2nd date, Spencer asked what you do for a living.  This led to a deep discussion about your work as a librarian at the Smithsonian and your overpowering obsession with all things ancient history.  In particular, the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt, Rome & Greece.

His question of which were your favourites didn’t take long for you to answer.

“Well,” you began “My favourite god is Anubis.  He’s the jackal-headed god of the Egyptian Afterlife and mummification and that kind of thing.  Without Anubis, none of the Pharaohs could enter the eternal afterlife.  He weighed their souls and guided the dead, rich and poor, into the Afterlife.”  You realised he’d gone silent and that maybe you’d just word vomited at him and had probably said Afterlife way too many times. You hoped you hadn’t scared him off.

You looked up at him and opened your mouth to apologize, when you saw such a look of awe on his face that you hadn’t seen on a date in a long time, well if you’re being honest, you’ve probably never seen it.  He’d tell you on the day he proposed that his is when he fell in love with you.  When he knew he wanted to spend the rest of his life with you.

You then, in much fewer words, told him your favourite goddess was Gaia, the Greek goddess of the Earth.

Spencer resolved, at that moment, to read everything he could about these gods and goddesses so he could converse knowledgeably with you.

After he'd done his research, which involved speed reading everything he could find, he decided you were his Maat.  Maat is the goddess of Justice, Harmony and Balance.  When he called you this for the first time, you asked why.  He simply replied that you bring Harmony and Balance are what you bring to his life, it’s what you are for him.

“You’re probably best giving the ones out at work you know, you see them every day.”

He looked at you hesitantly.

“Or are you still not wanting them to know about me?”

This was a small point of contention in your relationship.  Early on, you understood Spencer wanting to keep you safe from the pitfalls of his job.  However, now you are engaged, you thought he’d bring you into that part of his life more.

You know he wants the team, as his pseudo-family, at the wedding, but achieving that would involve actually telling them about you.

Suddenly a plan formed in your brain.  You were glad Spencer’s attention had returned to his breakfast and reading material and he wasn’t looking directly at you, so he didn’t catch on that you were plotting something.

“No, I promise you it’s not that.  There’s just so many important things running through my head at any one time.  I just forgot.”

“Oh, more important than marrying me?” you enquired, a little bit jokingly but also, a little bit seriously.

“Don’t be like that my love, you know that’s not it at all.  I love you so much, I can’t believe I’m the lucky guy that gets to call you my wife soon.”

“I know, it’s just sometimes, I wonder.”

“Well, don’t.   Give them to me, I’ll put them in my satchel now and in the post box on my way to work.”

“Nope, I’m going to send them.  At least that way I know they’re gone and you’re not trying to stall this wedding.”

“Sweetheart” he began, “I’m not stalling.  But if it makes you feel better, then go for it.  At least give me the ones for the team and I’ll give them out today when I get to the office.”

You filtered out the invites for his team, handing them to him and putting the rest in your bag. 

A few minutes later, as he was leaving for work, you gave him a quick peck on the cheek, reminding him that it was his turn to cook tonight.  You smile at the roll of his eyes, he’s not a bad cook but you can guarantee it will be takeout tonight.

You rang Spencer on your lunch break.  He usually took lunch around the same time of day as you, so you knew you could have a conversation without issues of people being around or listening in.  This happened most days he was working in the Quantico office.

During the call, you asked him how his team had reacted to the invitations. You were pretty confident he hadn’t given them out yet and this was all part of the plan.

After he left this morning, you noticed he had, once again, left the envelopes on the kitchen table, forgetting to put them in his satchel.  You knew he hadn’t given them out because he couldn’t, but that also means he hadn’t even tried yet.

“Oh, I haven’t had a chance to give them out yet because…”

“Spencer Walter Reid, I am sensing more and more that there’s something else going on.  If you want to postpone, or cancel, this wedding, you better tell me know.”

Spencer couldn’t believe you would think that, more importantly, he couldn’t believe he’d made you think that.  He knew what the fallout could be of everyone knowing about you and he was just hesitant about that.

"Maat, my love, I’ve never once been hesitant or unsure about marrying you.  It is a big thing, everyone knowing about you, putting you in the line of fire, as it were.  It’s just that massive change that is making me nervous.  Not you.  Not getting married, Never that.”

You sighed loudly. “I believe you Spencer, I just need you to back it up with actions love.  Just promise me they’ll all have their invitations by the end of the day?”

“I promise you, I will give them out today.”

About an hour later, you walked up to the Quantico building asking for SSA Aaron Hotchner, with the envelopes in your bag.  You’d mailed the rest of them, or given them out at your work this morning.

Aaron came down and confirmed your security clearance with the front desk and asked why you didn’t just let Spencer know.  You told him that you’d been waiting on Spencer to give out some invitations and he kept forgetting them so you figured you’d have to do it yourself if you wanted it done, and probably as a surprise.

You hesitated when the lift doors opened on their floor. Were you doing the right thing forcing this to happen?  You didn’t want to irrevocably damage your relationship with Spencer by forcing the meet and greet with the rest of Spencer’s team.

You stepped to the side so that you couldn’t be seen from inside their offices.  “Is this wrong Aaron?” you asked him.  “Maybe I should just take them home and not force this meeting.”

“Listen, you know Spencer loves you, we both know he wants this, but I get why he’s hesitant about, well, sharing you with the team.  Sometimes I wonder, if Hayley hadn’t been exposed to this..”

“Hotch, Spence told me all about what happened, it wasn’t your fault.  I just don’t want to make him angry by forcing the team to meet me, but we are fast approaching the rsvp deadline for this wedding.”

“Do you want me to send him out here.  I really think he’ll be ok with whatever you do.”

“No, let’s do this….” You explain your plan to Hotch who grins like he’s masterminded the whole thing with you.

Hotch opens the door to the BAU offices and walks in with you beside him.  You can’t believe this is the first time you are seeing where Spencer works.  Of course you see the back of his head because his desk kind of faces away from the main doors.  He looks like he’s deeply concentrating on whatever it is that he is reading.

Some of the team members are milling around one of the desks and when you walk in with Hotch they look up to greet him and you see the startled looks on their faces.  They all looked at each other, then back at you and Hotch, waiting for someone to say something.

“Mornin’ Hotch” said the one you pretty much knew to be Derek Morgan.  From Spencer’s detailed descriptions of each person, you were confident you knew who each person was in the group.  “New team member?”

“No Derek.” Hotch replied.

“Well then hello gorgeous Mama” he grabbed your hand to shake it and lifted it to his lips to give you a kiss.

You could see Spencer out of the corner of your eye and he was just working out that a conversation was going on without him that maybe he wanted to be a part of.  You saw him turn around and realise who it was with Hotch.  The look he gave you was both priceless and stunned at the same time.  You could clearly see the confusion on his face as to why you were there.

He stood up hesitantly raising his eyebrows at you.  You gave him a small smile so as not to give anything away.

“Well, I have some invitations for you lovely people to an upcoming event that you might want to attend.  So I came to give them out because my.. ummm.. assistant” you said pinning Spencer with a glare, that none of the team seemed to catch.  “Kept forgetting to post them.”

Spencer heard what you said and his brain was even more confused.  How could you have the invitations, he’d brought them with him that morning.  He lifted his satchel and opened it, realising he had, once again, left them at home.  He looked up at you, suitably apologetic in his glance and then put his head down, got up from his chair and made his way over to the rest of the group as you gave out the envelopes.

“Wait, you forgot Spencer.” Said the one you knew to be JJ.  A sort of best friend to Spencer, who you felt might be the one who felt the most betrayed that he hadn’t told her about you.

“Oh I didn’t forget Spencer” you said. “But maybe you should open the envelopes and you might see why.”

One by one the envelopes were opened and the shocked looks on their faces said it all, as they read:

‘You are cordially invited to the wedding of Y/n Y/l/n and Spencer Reid’

Derek turned to Spencer “Pretty Boy, you dirty dog.  You’ve been gatekeeping this gorgeous woman for how long?”

Spencer walked over to you, put his arm around your waist and replied “Oh, for about 3 years now” he happily turned and gave you a peck on the cheek.

“And you’re getting married?  Spencer, why didn’t you say anything” asked Garcia.

“And why are we only just now meeting her?” JJ again.

“Well, you know with everything, Spence thought it would help keep my safe if as few people as necessary knew about me but, as you can see from those invitations, we’re fast coming up on a certain day that you guys can’t miss.  Please say you’ll all come.  We would so love to have you there and I’d love to get to know all of you better.”

There was a chorus of yes, and of course, and Derek even put in a “try and keep me away”

You were so happy that this had gone well and that Spencer didn’t seem angry at all and that all of his work colleagues really wanted to know you and help celebrate your wedding in a few weeks.

Taglist: @wolfbeanpotion

Let me know if you want to be added.

[canisalbus]

the ask about marriage recently made me think of that thing i thought up when we were chatting about Separation: Machete reading up about how there were some same sex marriages in pagan Rome ages before and disregarding the church for once to have a little ceremony with Vasco out in the countryside. and i thought your tumblr readers would like to think on that

Oh yeah, I remember that! I actually think about it every now and then, but I've yet to do any meaningful research on the idea.

Machete is kind of an antiquity fanboy and it wouldn't be far fetched to say that his fascination and admiration for ancient Greece and Rome might've made it a tiny bit easier for him to accept his orientation. And even if he'd feel uneasy about acting behind his church's back and the ceremony would be purely symbolic, the need to have their union recognized and sealed in some type of way would be immense.

[wings-of-ink]

Will there be a banquet to celebrate MC's return? Will anyone get tipsy? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) I don't know why but I imagine a banquet like those in ancient Rome/Greece, with a cozy atmosphere, music, laughter, and lots of discussion. Or I just imagine a classic banquet done in the family's backyard with the parents and the neighborhood, full of roasted things, tarts, and Mc surrounded by everyone telling their vicissitudes with some intervention from the LIs.

Absolutely! MC's parents want to have a feast to celebrate. There may not be enough alcohol around to get anyone too far gone, but Zahn's definitely gonna feel it, Rune will have pleasant glow about them, and Da will be a little extra, lol.

And really, their feast will look a bit like that. Maybe not with a huge variety of food, but that's very much the same feel. Table is gonna be super crowded, lol.

[h1sstoria]

Greek homosexual activity, despite popular misconceptions, was not restricted to man-boy pairs. Vase-painting shows numerous scenes where there is little or no apparent difference in age between the young wooer and his object of courtship as well as graphic scenes of sexual experimentation between youths. Early poets such as Theognis (1.41, 1.65) and Pindar (1.86) make it clear that youths were attracted to and slept with other youths of the same age. Plato tells us that the young Charmides’ beauty provoked the admiration and love of everyone present, even the youngest boys (5.4.154). In the Phaedrus, Socrates quotes the proverb “youth delights youth” to imply that young men would prefer companions of their own age to older lovers (5.9.240). Xenophon shows Critobulus in love with Cleinias, a youth of the same age or perhaps even a bit older (5.8.4.23). Timarchus’ lover, Misgolas, appears to be the same age (4.7.49). In the Hellenistic period Meleager attests that boys were attractive to boys (6.40), and Quintilian worries about older boys corrupting younger boys in Roman schools (9.34).

Homosexuality In Greece And Rome: A Sourcebook of Basic Documents, edited by Thomas K. Hubbard

Sources referenced below the cut:

Theogonis 1.41

In youth you can sleep the night through with a friend,*

Unloading the desire for lusty action,

And you can go wooing and sing to a flute-girl’s tune—

No other thing is more thrilling than these

For men and women. What are wealth and honor to me?

Pleasure conquers all—and merrily.

Mindless men and fools weep for the dying

Instead of the blossom of youth that’s falling.

*The Greek makes it clear that the friend is an age-equal.

Theogonis 1.65

Boy, since the goddess Cypris gave you a lusty

Grace, and your beauty’s every boy’s concern,*

Listen to these words and for my sake take them to heart—

Knowing how hard it is for a man to bear desire.

*In other words, Cyrnus’ beauty arouses desire even among boys his own age.

Pindar 1.86

When Ephyrean¹ choristers pour out

My sweet voice around the Peneius,²

I expect by my songs to make the crowned Hippocleas

Still more splendid to look upon to both his age-mates and older men,

And a heartthrob for young maids. For

Different loves tickle the fancies of different folks.

Whatever each man reaches for,

If he wins it, let him hold as his desire an ambition near at hand;

Things a year in the future are impossible to foreknow.³

I have relied on the kind hospitality of Thorax, who, bustling about for my sake,

Yoked this four-horse chariot of the Muses,⁴

Favoring one who favors him, giving willing guidance to one who guides him.

To one who tests it, gold is revealed on the touchstone—

So too an upright mind.⁵

¹Ephyre was an ancient name of the Thessalian city of Krannon.

²The main river of Thessaly.

³The poet appears to be exhorting the boy not to be tempted by the other erotic opportunities that may be presented to him in his newly acquired glory, but to stick with his present good, namely Thorax.

⁴This expression is probably a metaphor for commissioning the present poem.

⁵In other words, Thorax’ virtue and devotion are proven by commissioning this poem (putting his gold to the test).

Plato 5.4.154

[...] You mustn’t judge by me, my friend. I’m a broken yardstick as far as handsome people are concerned, because practically everyone of that age strikes me as beautiful. But even so, at the moment Charmides came in he seemed to me to be amazing in stature and appearance, and everyone there looked to me to be in love with him, they were so astonished and confused by his entrance, and many other lovers followed in his train. That men of my age should have been affected this way was natural enough, but I noticed that even the small boys fixed their eyes upon him and no one of them, not even the littlest, looked at anyone else, but all gazed at him as if he were a statue. And Chaerephon called to me and said, “Well, Socrates, what do you think of the young man? Hasn’t he a splendid face?”

Plato 5.9.240

[...] But besides being harmful to his boyfriend, a lover is simply disgusting to spend the day with. ‘Youth delights youth,’ as the old proverb runs—because, I suppose, friendship grows from similarity, as boys of the same age go after the same pleasures. But you can even have too much of people your own age.

Xenophon 5.8.4.23

Hermogenes said, “Socrates, I do not consider it appropriate for you to overlook the fact that Critobulus has been so driven out of his senses by love.”

“Do you think,” said Socrates, “that he has been in this condition ever since he associated with me?”

“If not, since when?”

“Do you not see that the soft hair has recently crept alongside this one’s ears, while it already climbs from Cleinias’ chin towards the back.* Critobulus here was mightily inflamed before, when he went to the same school as Cleinias, [...]

*This suggests that Critobulus and Cleinias were both adolescents: if anything, Cleinias may have actually been a bit older. However, the interpretation of the Greek is disputed: others take the reference to be to hair on the nape of Cleinias’ neck. And 2.3 tells us that Critobulus is already married! Perhaps Critobulus is exaggerating his youthful appearance to imagine him-self as more like his beloved.

Aeschines 4.7.49

I want to say something else in advance, in case Misgolas obeys the laws and your authority. There are men who by their nature differ from others in their physical appearance as far as age is concerned. There are some men who though young appear mature and older, while others though old when one counts the years seem positively young. Misgolas is one of these. He is in fact a contemporary of mine and was an ephebe¹ with me; we are both in our forty-fifth year. And I myself have all these grey hairs that you see, but he doesn’t. Why do I give this advance warning? So that when you suddenly see him you will not be surprised and mentally respond: “Heracles! He is not much older than Timarchus!”² For it is a fact both that his appearance is naturally like this and that Timarchus was already a youth when Misgolas had relations with him. . . .

¹This refers to mandatory military service between the ages of eighteen and twenty.

²In fact, Timarchus seems also to be at least 45 at the time of this speech, judging from his service on the Council in 361 (mentioned in section 109); one had to be at least 30 to serve. Aeschines is apparently attempting to confuse the jurors and make Timarchus seem younger than Misgolas, whereas they were in fact the same age. Some commentators suspect textual corruption and think Aeschines and Misgolas were 54 rather than 45.

Meleager 6.40

Delicate Diodorus, casting a flame upon his young age-mates,

Has been caught by the flirtatious eyes of Timarion,*

And retains the sweet-bitter weapon of Eros. Truly, in this I see

A new wonder. Fire blazes bright burned by fire.

*A female courtesan.

Quintilian 9.34

I do not approve of younger and older boys sitting together in a classroom. For even if such a man as one would want is set over their studies and character and can keep the young modest, the weak should still be separated from the stronger, and not only the charge of moral turpitude, but even the suspicion of it should be avoided. I have considered that these matters should be briefly noted. That the teacher himself and his school be free from the worst vices I think hardly even needs to be said. And if there is anyone who in selecting a teacher does not avoid obvious moral misconduct, let him know that if this factor has been overlooked, everything else we try to devise for the benefit of the young is utterly futile.

[jeannereames]

Considering Alexander’s official version of history vs what historians know today, what is the thing Alexander was trying to hide the most?

Quite an interesting query. There’s one big problem with answering it, however: we don’t have Alexander’s official releases. That would be Kallisthenes’s account, and it’s among those early Alexander histories lost to time.

A quick reminder: our earliest still-existing Alexander history is Diodoros’s, and he was writing in the middle/late first century BCE. His last known work dates to 21 BCE, and the Bibliotheka Historika (World History) dates between 60-30 BCE, with the Philip/Alexander/Successors portions (Books 16-20) written around the middle. (The full Bibliotheka was 40 books; only portions of it survive.) Alexander died in 323 BCE…almost 300 years before any of it.

What survives is one part luck and one part quality and another bit of luck, part II. We have (maybe) a quarter of what was actually written in ancient Greece and Rome.

While Diodoros, Plutarch, and others may have used parts of Kallisthenes’ reports, it wasn’t their primary source. Arrian tells us that he preferenced Ptolemy and Aristobulos, Diodoros used Kleitarchos, while Curtius also used Kleitarchos as well as others, including Kallisthenes, and Plutarch used a mishmash of what he could get his hands on. THEN they modified it. This isn’t like a lazy high school student’s term paper, cut-and-pasted from 19 different places. I kinda wish some of them HAD worked like that. Ha. They’re all writing to show off their own literary mastery, which meant, yes, showing how well-read they were…then do something new and unique with it. It’s more akin to that annoying friend who has to pepper conversation with quotes from Shakespeare or other literary giants. Arrian even went so far as to write the Anabasis in the same dialect of Greek as Xenophon wrote his Anabasis, then to write his Indika in the same dialect of Greek that Herodotos wrote the Histories. That’s some serious showboat mimicry going on, no?

But none of it is exact copying.

That means, even when we know/strongly suspect they’re lifting from Kallisthenes, we can’t be sure it’s Kallisthenes’ actual words, or even the gist. How have they repurposed it?

For instance, if your annoying Shakespeare quoting buddy claims someone you both know is “but mad north-northwest,” they just mean the person is off their rocker sometimes (and maybe deliberately pretending), not that they’re a prince of Denmark in a play about revenge. So, they may be relating things about Alexander gleaned from Kallisthenes, but using that information in completely new ways. (See the embedded video below where I explain lost sources in a little more detail.)

So, what that means is that we can only “suppose” what Alexander’s official version actually WAS…and the specialists may disagree about it.

Let’s take the Burning of Persepolis. Here, archaeology reveals the actual fire was controlled, contradicting accounts in the sources, which either gloss it, or exaggerate it into something like a drunken frat party gone horribly wrong. So how did that wild story get started? And why was the tossing-of-torches led by an Athenian courtesan (Thaïs)? WHERE did that story come from?

Apparently, Kleitarchos. But where did Kleitarchos get it? He wasn’t there.

I’d propose we look at what really happened: a controlled burn of the royal platform after everything of worth had been carried out or pried off the walls, specifically aimed at erasing (damnio memoriae) the hated Xerxes. Darius the Great’s stuff was left untouched. That was a message for the Persians. But it’s not the message Alexander wanted to send back to Greece. So I’d propose that the “official” (Greek) version was that the palace was burned down not just by an Athenian, but an Athenian “whore” at that—the ultimate insult!—in revenge for the earlier Persian burning (by Xerxes) of Athens.

“Mission Accomplished.”

Kleitarchos got a hold of it and turned it into a Dionysian komos. (His history was, we know, rather sensational—probably why it was so popular. The ancient version of The National Enquirer or The Daily Mail.)

Not all my colleagues would agree with that reading. I’m reconstructing it based on what’s in the sources, what we know from history of Greek attitudes, and what the archaeology tells us. Someone else might reconstruct it a different way. We don’t actually know what Kallisthenes wrote about it, to send home to Greece.

So, the answer to the question is…I’ve no idea what he might have put out as the official version in order to hide something else. We can only guess. What we CAN say is that he was a master of propaganda—but not everybody in Greece bought into what he was selling. And some (as with Demosthenes & Friends, like an ancient Fox&Friends) would have hated anything he did because he was a Macedonian and Philip’s son.

I should probably add, the companion video to that one above, about the lost historians themselves:

[grecoromanyaoi]

helloo since we're on the topic: top historical fiction (or adjacent) ? can be any time period I just really love your taste in shows/games/etc and am always on the lookout for history inspired media !

thank you!!! im rly glad im like. inspiring other ppl to engage w things im insane abt hudofajsdfdassfsad. anyways. i will probably expand that list bc i literally forgot every single thing i ever read. also i havent watched that many movies so far

ancient times: i havent really watched a lot of movies/series set in ancient times so far :(

rome HBO (2005-2007) (tv series) - OF COURSE. i personally think its one of the best series ever made. they combine political, miliatry history with the lives of every day people in an incredible way. they never let you once engage with the series through modern lenses. according to my teacher (a historian, archeologist & self described 'romaphile') its incredibly historically accurate, mostly the clothing, set designs, characterization, military practices, etc. except for the things they straight up made up, of course.

i really enjoyed gladiator (2000), i think its a masterpiece.

prince of egypt (1998) i guess?

all the asterix movies of course, all the animated ones and most of the live actions. but i wouldnt really call it historical fiction

ok i havent actually finished watching it for now but sebastiane (1976) - an erotic, x rated, gay interpretation of the martyrdom of st sebastian. its in latin also.

wait i cant believe i forgor about assassin's creed odyssey - so far the only one ive played. its so fun and incredibly immersive visually. especially pour moi who cries into the pillow about how ill never experience the ancient world. also you can b a faggot which is always fun. i have things to say about their portrayal of same-sex sexuality and slavery in classical greece but i get why they did that considering its supposed to like. appeal to a lot of people, and a more "historically accurate" portrayal (for example of pederasty or how common slavery was etc.) would b v difficult for a lot of their target audience. alas.

medieval and early modern era:

the name of the rose (1986) - my medieval history teacher literally showed us bits of this movie to teach us about monasteries and monks fhdosiasdjasd.

the borgias (2011-2013) - incredibly messy, lots of political intrigue, and so so fun to watch. about the history of the borgia family. filled to the brim with drama.

the three musketeers (1993) - my favorite adaptation, also coincidentally the one i grew up on. casting tim curry as richelieu was genius. he slays so hard.

i also like bbc's the musketeers (2014-2016) - a neat little series. very fun and entertaining to watch.

outlaw king (2018) - like i dont think most ppl heard of this movie. its about robert the bruce's fight to reclaim the throne of scotland. starring chris pine

vikings (2013-2020) - its fun. i havent watched the entire series tho. dont expect anything resembling historical accuracy

the northman (2022) - you will see something resembling historical accuracy

mihai viteazul (michael the brave) (1971) - a fun movie. very much romanian propaganda tho.

1670 (2023-) - such a fun series!!! incredible cast, shows respect to the actual history and the lives of historical people. really cute and funny.

caravaggio (1986) - a biopic about caravaggio.

wait i also forgor about pentiment - an intriguing, immersive, and incredibly beautiful video game! it has a lot of 'the name of the rose' vibes, with it being a medieval murder mystery taking place in a monastery. its incredibly touching and made me cry, and in the last few years i very rarely cry. also im 99% sure its an indie game? go support the creators!

vaguely-medieval/early modern fantasy:

mirror mirror (2012) - a retelling of snow white. a very fun movie imo, with incredible costume design. julia roberts plays the evil queen and she SLAYS. armie hammer is unfortunately in that movie.

stardust (2007) - one of my fave movies growing up. more modern-inspired but still.

the green knight (2021) - controversial i know but i actually loved this movie! i liked it both as a standalone movie but moreso as a 21st century adaptation to sir gawain and the green knight.

galavant (2015-2016) - !!!!!!! one of the most series ever! they manage to tackle such difficult concepts and conversations with a hilarious wit. so fun to watch. i listen to a lot of the songs still, and rewatch every once in a while.

disenchantment (2018-2023) - very fun to watch, especially the first season.

i also really liked the novel uprooted by naomi novik. its a polish-inspired fantasy.

modern era:

killers of the flower moon (2023) - of course. a masterpiece

aferim! (2015) - a romanian movie set in 19th century wallachia, about two officers, a father and son, who were sent by a nobleman to retrieve an escaped enslaved romani man. a lot of the people in the comments were calling the movie humorous and funny, maybe im missing smth (as im watching with subtitles n dont understand the original language) but it was a very difficult watch for me??

the handmaiden (2016) - need i say more

black sails (2014-2017) - a prequel to the famous novel 'treasure island'. not an easy series to watch. incredibly good.

the favourite (2018) - need i say more pt 2

the rabbi's cat (le chat du rabbin) (2011) - animated movie set in early 20th century algeria. a rabbi's cat learns to talk overnight.

the nice guys (2016) - a fun murder mystery set in the 1970s

o brother, where art thou (2000) - a retelling of the odyssey set in the southern us in the 1930s

victor/victoria (1982) - set in early 20th century paris. julie andrews pretends to be a man and takes on a job as a drag queen. extremely fun, extremely gay movie.

lady chatterley's lover (2022) - very much porn for moms but it was a nice watch imo

amulet (2020) - set in like. idk. sometime in the 20th century. this is a horror movie, deals a lot with misogyny, sa, and so on. i really like it, personally. a lot of people, mostly weird men, dont tho.

the great (2020-2023) - i have mixed feelings about this show. on the one hand, its really fun to watch. on the other hand, its basically ofmd for girls who have public mental breakdowns whenever someone claims corsets were oppressive. and theyre so weird about russians, jesus christ.

disses:

domina (2021-) - i just couldnt get into it, esp since i tried right after finishing rome hbo. it was kind of silly, and not in a good way. takes itself wayyyy to seriously.

i didnt like spartacus (2010-2013) - the dialogue was almost grotesque and the editing, especially the transitions, straight up killed me

damsel (2024) - holy fuck what a trainwreck of a movie. absolute waste of angela basset and robin wright. the only good thing were the costumes.

lancelot du lac (1974) - i just didnt like it at all. couldnt get into it. i guess it was way too french and artsy fartsy for me. a movie that was trying to say both too little and too much at the same time.

i didnt rly like bram stoker's dracula (1992) - i mean. it was a fine movie. it was definitely not the godfather. the movie itself was meh. the visuals tho? absolutely stunning

[arrowheadedbitch]

Been thinking about how Apollo pretty much got stuck with any "etc" job and how this validates my old idea that the reason ancient greece fell was because he went on vacation for a little bit and no one thought to get him back so he decided fuck it, I'm gonna wait here and see how long it takes them to realise I left. And then Rome takes over and Apollo isn't there when it happens which is why he doesn't get a new name.

[save-the-villainous-cat]

OH MY WORD I LOVE FLUFF PLEASE I BEG OF YOU WRITE MORE FLUFF WITH SHY VILLAINS IT MAKES ME FEEL THINGS

I love you by the way, I think your very talented and I really love your writting <3 <3 have wonderful day

“You know, when you survive the so-called end of the world three times, you lose a taste for the danger.”

The hero behaved differently today. They had mentioned apocalyptic scenarios three times in the last two hours. They looked distant.

What should’ve been a meeting to discuss negotiated settlements turned into a therapy session and the villain was absolutely the last person on earth who was fit for this job. But when they gazed over at their hero — who was barely paying attention on anything — they felt their heart sink into a depth they didn’t know existed.

The way their fist dug into their cheek, elbow balancing on the table and that slight frown on their face…they didn’t look quite like the hero, more like an aged-up and tired version of them.

“Makes you feel…yeah, makes you feel not much, I suppose,” the hero said. They bit their lip, as if not to cry but the villain only sat there and stared at their nemesis from across the table. Why were they having this conversation? Wasn’t there some friend? Some councillor? Someone else?

They blinked tears out of their eyes, long and thin eyelashes ghosting over their perfect skin until they caught themselves again. They probably had played the role of the happy saviour of the world for too long.

“I think what we’ve settled on is pretty good,” they said painfully forced. “But I cannot guarantee that there won’t be more demands in the future.”

“Uhhh…” Out of all the reactions the villain could’ve had uhhh was probably the worst. Meaningless and stupid. They just couldn’t think. Couldn’t think when the hero was like this. “Y’know…we are, I mean, no — once I… fuck…”

The hero looked at them, eyes sunken in and exhausted but they looked patient, calm. Weirdly out of place in such a brutalist room. Someone strong in a way too cruel world.

“…when Rome fell, the world didn’t end, you know?” the villain said. They felt how their cheeks turned into little ovens. “Society collapsed but…I mean, Rome, the city, still stands and the people…I…sorry, I don’t know what I wanted to say with that.”

The hero smiled softly at them.

“I suppose you’re right…the earth still spins. Isn’t that the only thing that really matters?”

“Not if you’re upset.”

“Just…if feels like nothing. You save the world and it feels like fucking nothing. It feels like you didn’t make any progress. Feels like you didn’t achieve anything. You’ve saved billions of people and you still feel empty. As if it was a coincidence. As if someone else did it. You save the fucking world and still feel like a failure,” the hero said. “It’s stupid, I know…”

The villain dug their teeth into their bottom lip, taking their time. Comforting people wasn’t something they were used to, wasn’t even something they attempted. Thank god, no one really wanted nor needed their help.

But Christ, seeing the hero like this was tearing them up.

“In thousands of years, they’ll talk about you,” the villain said slowly. “I know we tend to…I know people tend to think that we will be forgotten and that it doesn’t matter what we do. But when someone’s as extraordinary as you, they’ll talk about you. Not only because you saved the world. But also for the courage that you show every day.”

They squeezed their hands into fists, nervous but the hero’s facial features relaxed, bringing their old self back.

“We still talk about Rome. About Ancient Greece. They thought they’d last forever and…they do. We know them.” The villain looked up at them. “And they will know you. They’ll remember you forever. Not only as a hero but also as…the person you are. Because the admiration people have for you will always withstand time.”

[ivansergeyevichturgenev]

no matter what i'm starting a new unit on ✨drama and theater✨ which is going to require a ton of scaffolding BUT i'm beyond excited it'll be fun hehe we're going to start with learning about theater and its parts and how to read a play and a little bit of theater history bc we study ancient greece and rome. it'll be fun

[literallyjusttoa]

Ok I have just been scrolling on your blog for like ages now and I just wanna say that I find your greek mythology rants literally so interesting bc a) they are so informative and when reading them it's obvious your dedicated abt it and b) I just love the way you write??? There's so much passion and it makes reading all your posts so interesting. I just love the info dumps especially bc I really want to know more abt greek mythology but I just don't have the time + have no idea where to start finding this information.

Plus I just really really love your art. It's so adorable?? I love your style and the way you draw your characters I just want to bundle them all up and never let go like I am literally etching every last bit into my brain.

Anyways I hope this doesn't seem like weird ☀️

These are like the kindest compliments, thank you!!!!

I'm so glad my passion for mythology comes through in my writing bc I do care so much about greek mythology and like mythology in general, if I thought I could make it in academia I would totally get a job in mythology research it is one of my favorite things. AND! I have a couple of resources I would totally recommend for a good place to start researching!

Theoi.com: oml this is such a phenomenally good resource for greek mythology. It has a whole bunch of different information and all of it is linked back to it's original source from antiquity. I will say that the writing on the website can be a bit dense, but it's not horrible and I could not recommend this site enough as a source for information.

If you have the money to buy a book I would recommend getting a copy of the Apollodorus' Library. This is a collection of mythography (It's like a mythological dictionary) that is thought to have been written around 2nd century BC. So, two plusses. 1. It's a primary source. 2. It has a lot of myths in a small package. Obviously, the original book is in ancient greek, which I sadly have not learned to read, but there are a lot of really good translations in english that are readily available. The one I have was translated by R. Scott Smith and Stephan M. Trzaskoma, and it's really cool because it also has the translated Hyginus' Fabulae, which is also mythography but this time it's roman. So like, two in one go! Woop woop!

After these two resources, I would recommend going trying to find resources that go more in depth on whatever myth catches your eye. Of course, that could be anything, so I can't really offer up a certain book or website for that, but I can give a couple of tips I use when looking into potential sources of information!

Primary resources!!! Always look for primary resources!! These are the sources that are actually from ancient greece, and have little to no additions from an author. I know these sources are usually more dense and harder to get through, but I think it's good to have an understanding of the original myth before you start looking at other people's interpretations of that myth, just so you don't get their thoughts confused with the actual original text. If you're having trouble figuring out if a book or site is a good primary research, search it up and look for reviews! Usually there's at least a couple people talking about how good the source is academic-wise.

I would always encourage researching ancient greek and roman history alongside researching mythology. These myths did not exist in a vacuum, and a lot of the time certain myths and stories are the direct result of the culture and politics of the era. I think the connections between greek mythology and history give you a greater understanding of both topics, and is always a good step!

(Also just my bias showing, but greek art history!!! is so good!!! and tells you so much about the culture!!! and then roman art history is also great!!! Because you get to see how the artists of rome used the cultural and artistic values of greece to create meaning and influence the people!! Like, Octavian purposefully had himself sculpted in a hellenistic style so that people would be less worried about him ruling from such a young age?? That's so interesting!!! I love art history!!!!)

I will say a lot of this does take a lot of time (I only really have time to research now bc it's summer so i'm not in college ;-;) but I really think it's such an interesting field, as you can probably tell by how long this was.

[five-thousand-loaves-of-bread]

🗡️ a while ago you mentioned that you love classical history, what's your favourite time period or myth?

ancient rome > ancient greece ( really only because more familiar with ancient rome. don’t know which prefer if know both equally well). ancient rome know late republic and empire history best. not great with myth. want know more about history and social and cultural better. and latin ( know little bit. bad at it.) and ancient greek ( know nothing). want read the 3 epics

[paeliae-occasionally]

Writeblr interview!

Thanks for the tags @drchenquill and @theink-stainedfolk.

Short stories, novels or poems?

I am currently only working on novels, but I consistently have to write little short stories when parts of the world come up that aren’t relevant to the story. I haven’t written a poem in a while, I might do that.

What genre do you prefer reading?

I read fantasy, sci-fi, the usual but then the other half of my bookshelf is physics and psychology books. I also read lots of books about Ancient Greece and Rome and have recently purchased one on Venice.

What genre do you prefer writing?

The world I am currently writing starts high fantasy then falls, so in the time of the main plot it is more of a general fantasy.

Are you a planner or a write-as-i-go kind of person?

I do plan because otherwise my vague concept of a story will never become a plot, but the outline can change as I go if I feel like another idea would be better.

What music do you listen to while writing the story?

I can’t listen to music while writing. It distracts me. I do however have a constant internal playlist and while working on Kell in the Xaeren WIP I have she used to be mine playing. It is not consistent.

Fav books/movies

Ooh, ok favourite books include: Strange the dreamer, Babel, Piranesi, The wind singer series and The mistborn series. I don’t really watch many movies.

Any Current WIPs?

Yep, They don’t have titles yet but the two I work on the most are Xaeren and Paeliae.

If someone were to make a cartoon out of you, what would your standard outfit be?

Dark blue cloak with many pockets for runes or spell components. I also hide trinkets in there. I would have a flowy blue starry top and black leggings. It would be very breathable and easy to move in and would blend in well with shadows.

Create a character description of yourself.

You look over to the side of the room, and there was nobody there. It was confusing, like a vacuum in space where you knew person should be but they just weren’t. They didn’t break the silence so you couldn’t hear their offer to join them at the table, yet you accepted all the same and sat down. Despite their absence they filled the chair opposite you and didn’t smile because they weren’t there. Still you could feel the amusement that managed to escape them.

Do you like incorporating people you actually know into your writing?

No. It feels weird to write real people. I do steal names but that is about it.

Are you kill-happy with the characters?

I don’t like killing heroes without good reason. I will do it to show stakes or for tragedy but for it to mean anything you have to use it sparingly.

Coffee or Tea while writing?

Neither. Lemonade sometimes.

Slow or Fast writer?

Depends on my mood. If I can focus I can write quite quickly but if I am not on task it takes ages to write anything.

Where/who/what do you find inspiration from?

daydreams, other people’s writing.

If you were put into a fantasy world, what would you be?

I would have magic even if I have to study for another 10 years to get there. Whoever I have to bribe or kill, I will get magic.

Fave book cliche?

Hmm… I love magic/action prologue then cut to our main character on a farm or in regular life somewhere. I use it all to much just to set a tone but it is a bit cliche.

Least fave book cliche?

I hate miscommunication. It can work in comedy settings but if you want a dramatic story and the threat to the characters could be resolved by a short conversation then I get frustrated.

Fave scenes to write?

Conversations. Especially conversations where something new is implied about a character. I love getting a vibe from a character’s dialogue and then seeing it come true later.

Most productive time of day for writing?

Whenever the motivation hits. I schedule writing for the morning around 8-10 I have to get stuff done.

Reason for writing?

The people have to go somewhere. I have had stories before that I have forgotten and it is so sad, I just want to put them somewhere more long lasting than my mind.

Tagging @illarian-rambling, @phoenixradiant, @kaylinalexanderbooks, @leahnardo-da-veggie and @the-golden-comet

[flora-of-the-moon]

1 8 18 20 25

What are three shows in your watchlist that you’ve been meaning to get to?

Dungeon Meshi. I've watched the first three episodes and I'm liking it so far :3

Castlevania: Nocturne

Severance. I've seen snippets of it and it looks interesting

Do you collect anything? If so, what?

Candlessss. I love them collecting them and I've even made a few myself. It's a very fun and unique hobby of mine that I don't share with a lot of people lmao my dad has a whole gnome collection but we don't talk about that

What’s one historical event that you would have liked to have witnessed?

🔪 March 15 🔪

But seriously, also just ancient times in general. Whether it's Greece, Egypt, Rome, etc.

What kind of math are you best at?

Precal. I'm good at algebra and trig individually, but when there are little bits of both sprinkled in...that's when I know what I'm doing (somehow I have the unit circle completely memorized...but not the quadratic formula...idk what's wrong with me and yes that's why it's my blog title so I can actually work on memorizing it)

Do you have any piercings or tattoos? Are there any that you want?

I have both of my ears pierced, but that's it. As for tattoos...I'd love to get a one of a butterfly that I (kind of) share a name with

[jeannereames]

hello dr. reames! I've been wondering if you have some sources you can recommend on fashion and clothing in alexander's empire. greek clothing is a little easier to find, and military dress is decently enough documented, but I was wondering if you know of anything that would talk about the clothing in all the different provinces of persia and possibly cover more than nobility/royalty. image search results are a little lacking on this - many are either not described or the credibility is suspect, not to mention the influences of orientalism. do we have any legit documentation? were there any restrictions in who could wear what? how did the servants and working class dress? how different was clothing in the heart of the empire to, say, the easternmost provinces? how did persians influence dress in the greek city-states they ruled? that sort of thing.

Unfortunately, there aren't many recent books on this. Harry Thurston Peck did a lot of things in the late 1800s, and there are some others from the early 1900s, when there seemed to be a boom of interest, and not just in Greece and Rome. Textiles were a thing, but more in an "oriental exotica" way. There are also nationalist sites that sometimes elide when things started, to intentionally push back the advent of certain clothing trends. Some years back, I was told about a billboard in Tehran showing stone carvings from Persepolis of people wearing the face veil, meant to make modern veiling more palatable for women. Problem: the figures they were showing as "women" were actually MEN. Veiling in the ancient world had a different purpose (namely, the expression of power: I can see you but you can't see me). So there's that sort of thing to beware of. As well as just uncareful research. I've also spotted mention of "lemons" in Achaemenid cooking. Er, no. Citrons yes, lemons no.

Probably the best recent book for Greece is Lloyd Llewellyn-Jones's Aphrodite's Tortoise: the Veiled Women of Ancient Greece. But as the title suggests, it's almost exclusively about women. Fun fact, Lloyd was one of Oliver Stone's advisors on Alexander, at least for clothing. So most of what you see there is pretty accurate, except for whatever the hell that was Angelina Jolie wore as Olympias...because (I've been told) she refused to wear what Lloyd told her to wear. 🙄

Anyway, as you mention, military is easier to find. For others reading, I'll link to the Osprey series on military history that often includes illustrations that give some idea of clothing, but it's military specific. My other complaint is that they're a little too inclined to give the suggestion of "uniforms" in a modern sense, although maybe they've improved on that in recent years.

Harvard has a pretty good website (with long bibliography) about ancient Greek weaving, which would, of course, include a little about making clothing. And there's material on daily life--which includes clothing--in various collections of that sort. Robert Garland has a good one I use in class. But again...Greece.

The Getty has a website with pictures of Persian material from their own collection, but I saw nothing there about clothes.

For Persia...yeah, there's not a lot that I know of, alas. Again Lloyd Llewellyn-Jones might be the best name to chase, as he does both clothing and Persia. You could even email him and ask if he can recommend some material--probably going to be in article form. And it might be in German. A fair bit of good research on the ANE is in German. I just don't know what's out there on clothes, specifically. But he's probably the most likely to.

I do recall an article by Olbrycht that includes, inter alia, a discussion of what pieces of Persian royal wear Alexander adopted. But that's obviously royal, and probably not much help.

That's the best help I can offer. I'm sorry!

Perhaps other people know of reputable sources and can either reply with them or repost with them.