#World War II queer History

[whereserpentswalk]

The nazis that you see in movies are as much a historical fantasy as vikings with horned helmets and samurai cutting people in half.

The nazis were not some vague evil that wanted to hurt people for the sake of hurting them. They had specific goals which furthered a far right agenda, and they wanted to do harm to very specific groups, (largely slavs, jews, Romani, queer people, communists/leftists, and disabled people.)

The nazis didn't use soldiers in creepy gas masks as their main imagery that they sold to the german people, they used blond haired blue eyed families. Nor did they stand up on podiums saying that would wage an endless and brutal war, they gave speeches about protecting white Christian society from degenerates just like how conservatives do today.

Nazis weren't atheists or pagans. They were deeply Christian and Christianity was part of their ideology just like it is for modern conservatives. They spoke at lengths about defending their Christian nation from godless leftism. The ones who hated the catholic church hated it for protestant reasons. Nazi occultism was fringe within the party and never expected to become mainstream, and those occultists were still Christian, none of them ever claimed to be Satanists or Asatru.

Nazis were also not queer or disabled. They killed those groups, before they had a chance to kill almost anyone else actually. Despite the amount of disabled nazis or queer/queer coded nazis you'll see in movies and on TV, in reality they were very cishet and very able bodied. There was one high ranking nazi early on who was gay and the other nazis killed him for that. Saying the nazis were gay or disabled makes about as much sense as saying they were Jewish.

The nazis weren't mentally ill. As previously mentioned they hated disabled people, and this unquestionably included anyone neurodivergent. When the surviving nazi war criminals were given psychological tests after the war, they were shown to be some of the most neurotypical people out there.

The nazis weren't socialists. Full stop. They hated socialists. They got elected on hating socialists. They killed socialists. Hating all forms of lefitsm was a big part of their ideology, and especially a big part of how they sold themselves.

The nazis were not the supervillians you see on screen, not because they didn't do horrible things in real life, they most certainly did, but because they weren't that vague apolitical evil that exists for white American action heros to fight. They did horrible things because they had a right wing authoritarian political ideology, an ideology that is fundamentally the same as what most of the modern right wing believes.

[omgthatdress]

During World War II, entertainment was a crucial part of maintaining troop morale. Because of the difficulties in getting professional entertainers to the front lines, it was usually up to the soldiers themselves to put on shows. Because of the lack of women, female roles had to be played by men.

Drag was immensely popular on all sides of the war, even in the German army.

(German soldiers in drag)

(A British Army drag show is interrupted by an attack, soldiers respond in drag)

One of the most popular "soldier shows" was This is The Army, a musical by Irving Berlin. A movie version with multiple performances by soldiers in drag was made in 1943. It starred Ronald Reagan.

[247reader]

Day 23: Elvira de la Fuente Chaudoir

It was 1941, and Helmut “Bibi” Bleil, a Nazi agent in southern France, couldn’t believe his luck. A beautiful woman - none too bright, perhaps, but beautiful - the socialite daughter of a rich Peruvian, had been flirting with him for days. And, better yet, he’d finally broached to the topic, over dinner, of going into “business” with her - sending her into Britain as an Abwehr spy. He went home satisfied with a good week’s work - and Elvira Chaudoir went back happy, too.

Because Elvira already was a spy - a spy for the British - and she’d finally hit paydirt.

Elvira really was most of what she’d presented herself as. Her father had been rich, and she’d grown up at a boarding school before leaving an unhappy marriage to bounce around Europe, gambling away her fortune and romancing both men and women. But she was also keenly intelligent and fervently opposed to Nazism. British intelligence brought her on as part of the Double Cross system, feeding information to the Axis - some false, some worthless, and some true but just a little too late. In the greatest deception of the war, she and her fellow agents - including Juan “Garbo” Pujol Garcia - helped convince the Nazis that D-Day was aimed at Calais, not Normandy.

Elvira retired to France, where, chronically short of money, she eventually opened a gift shop. She died in 1996 - nine years before the files on her heroism would finally be made public.

[if-you-fan-a-fire]

"SHE POSED AS MAN EVEN TO DRAFT CARD," Toronto Star. January 5, 1943. Page 2. ---- Mildred Allen, 29. is shown as she was arrested in Chicago. Police said she admitted having posed as a man for 15 years. Detectives said she was carrying a draft card bearing the name of Thomas Vernon. She was held without a formal charge.

[troythecatfish]

[ferociouslycreativemystery]

Look, there are books that are fine, there are books that are great, there are books that you forget - and then, there's this:

Genuinely just... go read it. It gives an incredibly deep and human look at war largely from the perspectives of the people who didn't have a choice but to live or die through it, but also exploring how we relate to it and the memory of them in the subsequent peace.

It is obviously focused on Britain and the second world war, but the questions it raises and its reasoning about them holds a much broader and especially contemporary significance, as is explicitly brought up throughout the book.

The author interrogates both the narratives that have come to dominate conversations about the war, as well his own fascination with the conflict from a young age. It takes a special interest in the stories that cannot be fit neatly into what general knowledge would have us believe history was like. Queerness in its many forms is at the heart of this exploration, and in a way that doesn't try to pin it down or explain it, but rather turns the searchlight in the opposite direction, to show how people grapple with dominant ideas in a time where "ordinary life" is anything but.

It feels refreshingly nuanced and genuinely curious about the world and the people living in it in a time where simplicity all too often dominates the public discourse, both in politics and on social media.

If you want a preview, here is an interview with the author about the book (which currently sits at just below 1500 views, so please give it a watch):

There are books that you're glad to have read, and then there are books that once you finish the audiobook (in one week, despite having exams), you go out to buy the hardback copy of. With the warmest of recommendations: please go read Men at War: Loving, Lusting, Fighting, Remembering 1939-1945 by Luke Turner:

Audiobook (read by the author) Links to purchase the book in the UK and US are in the description of the youtube video.

And a special thanks to @thelykewakedirge for recommending this book in the notes of my previous post, it's been a delight to read/listen to!

[these-whispers-and-murmurs]

ψ(｀∇´)ψ

Hello, my name is Murmur!

This is an introduction to my blog. It will be a pinned post, for easy access if anyone would like to reference it at any point in time.

I like writing, and reading! I also enjoy commenting on others work (nothing bad, maybe some suggestions at worst) and I also love receiving those comments on my stuff as well!! I'm a big believer in this community being a "two way street," but that's just me.

I'm nineteen, and I'm perfectly fine with anyone following me; but I do know that others may not feel super comfy following me without knowing my age!

Speaking of that, my birthday is December 20th! Making me a Sagittarius!

Also, I'll do my best to put trigger warnings when they apply; but to be completely honest here, I'm not very used to that. Not because I don't care; but because I don't really share my work online! Haha, I'm very new to this.

I'm also currently working on a short story! I love history, so it's about three young girls (ages 9-10), living in Germany in the year 1935. I hope to be brave enough to share this story with you all!

Have a wonderful day!

[twicedailyquotes]

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if all our letters could be published in the future in a more enlightened time. Then all the world could see how in love we are.

Gordon Bowsher in a love letter to Gilbert Bradley (circa 1940s)

[icoulduseapairofbrassknuckles]

So I'm reading "Coming Out Under Fire" by Allan Bérubé which is about gays in the military in WW2 and there's something really hilarious to me about the deadpan sentence:

"Heterosexuality was not a functional prerequisite for making it through basic training."

[makingqueerhistory]

Selected Works from Toni Ebel

Toni Ebel was a pioneering trans woman and a remarkable figure in art and queer history. Ebel's paintings were primarily landscapes and portraits, including the self-portrait shown here. As one of the first individuals to receive gender confirmation surgery, she navigated her identity during a time of immense societal constraints. Ebel worked as housekeeping staff at the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft, an institution at the forefront of gender and sexuality studies, which also led her to connect with other LGBTQ+ people.

Toni Ebel also shared a profound relationship with Charlotte Charlaque, a fellow trans woman who worked as a receptionist at the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft. Their bond highlighted the close-knit nature of the German trans community at the time and underscored the importance of mutual support in an often hostile world. They navigated World War II as Jewish trans women, at times parting for safety. Ebel ended up in East Germany and continued working as a painter, while Charlaque spent the rest of her life in the United States working as an actress.

You can find these works and more in our gallery!

[genderqueerdykes]

"Why is it called coming out?"

George Chauncey, a renowned professor of American queer history at Columbia University who has worked as an expert witness on many key US gay rights cases explains that in the period before World War II, gay people "did not speak of coming out what we call 'the gay closet' but rather of coming out into what they called homosexual society or the gay world, a world neither so small nor so isolated, often so hidden as the closet implies."

Chauncey draws on an example from a 1931 headline in the newspaper the Baltimore Afro-American, which announced the "coming out of new debutantes into homosexual society" at a ball referred to as a "frolic of the pansies." Apparently large drag balls were popular at the time and were a classic place for men to come out into gay society in America. These were not underground affairs; instead some drew thousands of spectators. Chauncey writes that, by 1931, "this aspect of gay culture was entering mainstream parlance."

-- "Bi: The hidden culture, history, and science of bisexuality" by Dr. Julia Shaw.

[gay-jewish-bucky]

Debunking the Claim that Bucky Barnes' Dog Tags "Prove He Cannot Be Jewish"

In 2021 and 2022, when discussing the fact that MCU!Bucky (henceforth referred to simply as Bucky) is based off of Arnie Roth, a gay Jewish man and Steve's childhood best friend, I received pushback from fans telling me that Bucky can't possibly be Jewish due to his dog tags; citing a behind the scenes picture posted by Sebastian Stan to his instagram story.

Transcription of the dog tags:

James B. Barnes (Legal Name) 32557038 (Serial Number*) T41 42 (Tetanus Immunization) O (Blood Type) R. Barnes (Next of Kin) 3092 Stockton RD (Address) Shelbyville IN (Location) P (Religion Marker)

*A serial number starting with a 3 indicated that the servicemember was drafted into the Army, it's important that we do not forget that Bucky didn't chose to fight.

During World War II the dog tags of American service members would have had one of the following regulation religion markers:

P for Protestant (the marker we see on Bucky's dog tags)

C for Catholic

H for Hebrew, this being the marker for 'Jewish'

NO (or left blank) for No Religion

For Jewish servicemembers fighting in Europe, being discovered to be a Jew by your captors–especially if you were captured by the Nazis–carried considerable risk and could mean the difference between life or horrific torture, experimentation and possibly even death.

Some Jewish service members, justifiably incredibly fearful of what could happen if they were found out, would either omit a religion marker altogether or, after getting their tags, would attempt to obscure the 'H' marker in some way so it could not be read by their captors.

While this saved some lives, it was not a perfect and fool-proof system, and we have no way of knowing how many times it failed.

In 1943, the year Bucky was drafted, the Army introduced a more official (and more widely adoptable, and thus widely adopted) option to protect Jews in its ranks:

Through the European Theatre of Operations United States Army, Jewish servicemembers could elect to have the 'H' marker for Hebrew on their dog tags replaced with a 'P' for Protestant.

This would offer Jewish servicemembers a more convincing layer of protection if they were ever captured by the enemy, because, unlike an obscured religion marker (or that lack of one) which could itself draw suspicion, a set of dog tags printed with a 'P' would be entirely indistinguishable from the dog tags worn by a gentile and would be less likely to draw suspicion.

Due to this option being made available to Jewish people serving in the United States Armed Forces, the 'P' marker on Bucky's dog tags not only does not definitively prove that he's really a gentile, in actuality its presence provides even further historical support in favour of him being a Jewish man.

Sources and Additional Reading:

Jewish GIs and Their Dog-Tags by Rabbi Akiva Males - Hakirah

A Star of David for Pvt. Benjamin Garadetsky - Jewish Telegraphic Agency (jta.org)

U.S. Army WW2 Dog Tags | WW2 US Medical Research Centre (med-dept.com)

Do You Know the History of the "Dog Tag" (jcveteranscouncil)

Beyond The Battle: Religion and American Troops In World War II (uky.edu)

World War II and American Jewish Identity

European Theater of Operations, United States Army - Wikipedia

Pride Month 2022, 40 Years of Arnie Roth and Michael Bech - Marvel Comics: The Queer History Behind MCU Bucky’s Backstory

J.M. DeMatteis, the creator of Arnie, confirming the character's use for MCU!Bucky

Full screenshot of Sebastian Stan's post of the dog tag

How to Decode a WWII US Army Serial Number | Amy Johnson Crow

[if-you-fan-a-fire]

"DRAFT ENDS EIGHT-YEAR MASQUERADE AS WOMAN," Toronto Star. April 9, 1943. Page 2. ---- Because his companions called him "Sissy," Reb Lucian Dookrey, 26, of Blossom, Texas, eight years ago donned women's clothing. He was held for physical examination in the garb, LEFT, and charged with failing to register for the draft. RIGHT, Dookrey is seen after a haircut and change of clothing

[dailyhistoryposts]

The Glamour Boys

Forgotten queer history: the Glamour Boys were a group of gay British politicians in the 1930s. Because they made trips to Berlin, which was then one of the most sexually liberal and liberated places in Europe (note especially Magnus Hirschfeld’s Sexology Institute), they were among the first to notice the warning signs of Germany’s descent into fascism.

They returned to the UK and argued loudly and without stopping for rearmament, against appeasement, and many of the enlisted and were killed in action during World War II.

The term “Glamour Boys” was a derogatory one given to them by Neville Chamberlain, the conservative Prime Minister best known for his failed appeasement of Hitler. He had the Glamour Boys harassed, their phones tapped, and their names slandered in the press. As gay public figures in a time and place where homosexuality was illegal, each faced great potential consequences by coming forward as they did.

Members include the following MPs: Robert Bernays, Ronald Cartland, Victor Cazalet, John Macnamara, and Anthony Muirhead.

Their story was largely untold until The Glamour Boys: The Secret Story of the Rebels who Fought for Britain to Defeat Hitler (2010) by Chris Bryant.

"Churchill gets all the credit all the time because that's what he wrote. He was opposed to the policy of appeasement, and all the rest of it, but what nobody, I guess, would know is that half the time when Churchill and [Anthony] Eden were plotting with the rebels, roughly half the men in the room were 'queer'."

[ibikus]

Okay, my thoughts right now:

I live in a state in Germany with literal Neonazis in its parliament, people who don't just reject democracy but the German state as a whole, because they deny World War II was ever lost. Yes, sounds crazy, but it's real and many of these people had a decent education in school before they fell off. I watch people repeat history every day just by going out and being subjected to the people who vote for a party that admires Hitler, wants women and queer people to die, wants immigrants to be killed or sent back to war and that LOVES to copy what Republicans are doing in the US. I hear their misogyny, their racism, their homophobia, their transphobia, just casually on the street, some from my very own family members. I am sure many other Europeans can relate, it is scary existing in these areas of our countries, it's scarier looking at the areas where it's even worse.

And I think that's why it's bad to say "oh those stupid americans". I think alot of us do know very well how these things work and that it's just not easy like that. It's a machinery, designed to erode democracy, it's a path they've been on for a long time and it is not easily visible for many, many people. They prey on lack of education, withholding transparency, they prey on desperation, on making the poor poorer so they are more eager to believe their lies of easy solutions. And boy do they lie and lie and lie, even when it's obvious that they are lying, even though they do not believe any of what they're saying themselves. Propaganda through ways you can't even see, on messengers, tiktok and other sites that do not give a FUCK if the content they push at you is real, that drag you further and further into these dangerous believes. It's selfishness but it's also the blatant disrespect for democracy, it's the loopholes, the way to corruption, away from constitutionality. And it's happening everywhere. We are not on the precipice anymore, we are already in the trenches, we have been for a while if we're being honest with ourselves.

I don't want to be all negative, because we know through history that humans are resilient, love is the strongest force and there is always a way forward, but now we also know there will be many many lives lost on the way to mending any of what's happening in the world right now. And there is no glory in that, not at all. But we will keep going, even though it will get worse before it ever gets better again, we will keep fighting, we will wake up and do good and love each other. That's the one thing that will never stop. That we love each other, that we love humanity and the world we live in, and if this is anything it should be a wake up call to support the most vulnerable whenever we can, to protect our planet, to protect each other. We have to keep going, we simply have to.

[littledesertfox]

intro, I guess?

hii! I figured I should make a post like this even though I have a feeling it will be like super messy xD

I've had an interest in history, specifically World War II basically since I was a kid. It was only recently though that I found out that there's a community for it! I've always had a thing with expressing my interests in ways that may seem slightly odd to other people, so it feels nice to see that there are others who seem to experience this in similar ways :3

I want to make it very clear that I am NOT a nazi or rightwing in any way, and I don't want actual (neo-)nazis to interact with my blog, get the fuck out! Similarly, I don't want racists, lgbtq-phobes, ableists, religious extremists, pedos & zoos or people of similarly disgusting kind to interact! I'm literally queer and neurodivergent (undiagnosed/suspected bc getting a therapy place is hard :/), this is not a place for you!

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I've been a fan of the Downfall parodies on youtube when I was younger and recently relapsed into this fixation😭 I don't know if this fandom even really exists at this point since it seems that many creators have left in the meantime, but I'd love to talk about it, maybe I'll even get to write fanfics at some point. Also a short disclaimer that when I talk about historical figures that play a major role in the Downfall parody universe (such as Fegelein, Krebs, Burgdorf etc), it will usually be about their parody selves, not the real people! I'll try to clarify that individually if needed though.

I've also started lurking a little in the reichblr tag with a feeling that I'd describe as "indimidated fascination". Currently I'm mostly interested in some members of the Wehrmacht, but other historical figures that I had or have an interest in might come up as well. Overall any stuff that I post will probably go more into the lighthearted and humorous direction, but I'd love to bring in some more educational stuff as well.

My inbox is always open if you want to gush or ramble about your favourite historical figures or Downfall characters (both from the parodies and the movie itself) and such! Please talk to me about our shared faves😭🫶

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I get crushes on fictional characters and sometimes historical figures too, but that doesn't mean I support, condone or defend their worldviews or actions in any way (this applies especially to real people of course)! These "crushes" usually stem from a place of fascination with who they were behind their public appearance, I want to know more about them as a private person, like their hobbies, favourite food and other mundane things like that. Often it's also simply that I feel physically attracted to their appearance because I think they're handsome, either that or they give me massive gender envy (or both lmao). I don't really control on who I fixate like that, it just happens, but I hope that this will be a place for me to express those feelings in some way and find like-minded people. Though I also want to point out that not all my fixations are automatically also crushes! Usually I will mention whether they are or not, or you'll probably notice based on what kind of posts I make about them lol.

Current main historical fixations:

Erwin Rommel (I can't help it I just think he's cute ._.)

Fritz Bayerlein (he's the dude in my pfp lol, there's barely info about him but idk I just think he's kinda interesting😭 also yes he was actually bi)

Current main Downfall fixations:

Hans Krebs & Wilhelm Burgdorf (the otp ever)

Wilhelm Mohnke (ngl Downfall!Mohnke is kinda fine❤️‍🔥 ... idk maybe I'm just finding the actor hot though😭)

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If I encounter things that make me uncomfortable I follow common fandom courtesy and block tags or blogs accordingly. This is nothing personal, I'm just curating my own online space. I don't want to see any harassment here, neither towards myself nor to others!

Anyway I guess that's it for now? Idk if this is any good as an intro post but for now it'll have to do I guess😂 I'm generally not really sure yet in which direction to go with this blog (should it be more Downfall or reichblr focused? is there a lot of overlap between the fandoms? do they even get along? help😭). I also don't know how active I'll be in general, I'm also constantly jumping between thoughts like "yee this is gonna be fun" and "dafuq am I doing here I should feel ashamed about myself" but I hope to meet people who share my interests :3