#Vtm meta

[chiss-ticism]

I'm having Nod thoughts again:

Do you think Caine remembers how things really were?

He's doomed to walk the Earth eternally, lest he accept his actions as wrong and genuinely seek repentance for it, but how clearly do you think he remembers in Modern Nights? To my knowledge, I don't think it's ever explicitly implied or stated that he'd be exempt from the fact that memory is a fickle thing at the best of times, which is to say nothing for folks as long lived as the Cainites.

How much of what isn't muddied and blurred by emotion can he truly recall? Do you think he remembers the way Abel's face lit up when they'd joke around like brothers are want to do? The proud looks he must've gotten from Eve when he'd taken up gardening? The grief-stricken look Adam gave him before exiling him to the lands of Nod?

This is, of course, to say nothing of his time in Enoch and the squabbles his Grand-Childer got themselves into in the First City.

How can one truly, genuinely, repent if you can't even properly remember parse the events that have got you here in the first place after a certain amount of time has passed? A swirling miasma of emotions and trauma mudding the waters, diluting any chance at reconciliation. God In the WoD was never portrayed as infallible - [His] laundry list of fucks ups and overwhelming displays of neglect being more than enough to back up that point - but the more you delve into it, Caine's punishment seems more and more like an afterthought for something that had as many ramifications as it did. He never had a real shot at redemption, no matter how many emissaries [He] sent. Something something "the game was rigged from the start" something something

[dykeferatu]

i think the fact that we don't know much about what causes migraines is why it could really be either one. vampires have very different blood pressure considering they don't have a heartbeat most of the time, so if it's from blood pressure i don't think it would apply. also, if we accept that they can "heal" migraines with blood, why wouldn't it be healed like other minor wounds are during the embrace? <- then again, that's inconsistent even in canon. i would say both answers can be true without contradicting each other. there's a "permanent wound" flaw in older editions, so i think it would function like that (which works p much exactly how u described: they have to heal it with blood every night)

[gorbalsvampire]

You know what I can't stand about VtM?

Camarilla apologism.

The Camarilla are monsters with rules, and they will use those rules to justify slavery and exploitation and abuse and control and murder, for ever. And people tell me these are the good guys. They're absolutely not. The Beast is sitting down at table and wearing a pretty dress and her table manners are ever so lovely and her dinner conversation sparkles, but you're still getting eaten alive. And you have to love it. They have made you love it. Nothing in their rulebook says they can't.

I have never actually run a Camarilla game. Not properly. I think it's because that level of authoritarianism makes me urge. It's weird, because I love Dark Ages Vampire with all my soul and those are the same rules, but Dark Ages Vampire doesn't have the "default sect" phenomenon, the expectation that you the players are going to be aligned with this side and therefore that's the right side because you the players are on it.

Woobifying the Sabbat and apologising for the Camarilla makes the real default protagonists of V1 - the Anarchs - even more toothless than they already are, burdened by their writers' failure to imagine a way out of the status quo (not blaming them for that, progressive politics are hard and it's only a bloody game, innit?). And as the game drifted more and more into Camarilla-as-default-vs-Sabbat-the-Anarchs-are-also-there... I don't know where I'm going with this, I was just confronted by the monstrosity of the Camarilla before I'd even had a cup of tea this morning and it's great horror but don't ever tell me they're the good ones. Don't you dare.

[viahiptop]

Vampire The Masquerade: Justice (aka Rat Eating Simulator)

[levylevaroni]

Living my best life as a vampire in VR. 🩸

[aidsyouinthinking]

V's files- "Somewhere Someone Comes to Die"

[robotslenderman]

Do you have any suggestions for writing Strauss? I was thinking of doing an LA by Night fanfic and I’m a little unsure of how to incorporate his old characterization from Bloodlines with the characters introduced in the series. Thanks a bunch!

So I wouldn't know about his LAbN characterisation, but I'll comment with what I've noticed of VTMB!Strauss and hopefully that will help!

He's a very rare character in that he's both very stoic, but also very expressive. His emotions don't really bleed into what he's saying, he keeps an even and professional tone... but his body language is something else entirely. He speaks with his hands, he leans back and forth, he moves his body around. When he's excited his voice will continue to have a bit of a calming drone to it, but his hands would probably act completely differently -- moving around quickly, maybe a clap, head moving all about the place.

He likes fledglings, he likes to teach, he likes to guide. He'd be a sterner teacher than most, I think, but would also adapt his technique to the student, and in exchange expect more from them. That part is speculation though.

He's a very good example of Nice Is Not Good. In VTMB he's the only person that treats the fledgling with an ounce of respect, but... he's also the character (that we know of) that's done the worst deeds, second to only Andrei -- he made a gargoyle, and gargoyles are made in a process that involves torture and agony for the Kindred that are made into one.

Along those lines he's also pragmatic. He doesn't see the point in swinging his dick around just because he can like other elders do. He treats people with polite respect regardless of whether or not they can do anything for him. He's also opportunistic -- when they can do something for him, he uses that respect to his advantage.

Wants power, but not in ways that are immediately obvious; he remarks that he's not interested in becoming Prince of LA (but will go for it when the opportunity presents itself later), but mentions that he aspires to far greater heights. We never find out what those heights are.

A lot of people suspect he's in LA either because he's in the "naughty corner" (LA seems to be the place that Camarilla send their most annoying members), or because he deliberately wanted to be away from the scrutiny of the rest of the Pyramid. Given that Kindred are pretty evil as a baseline, and that the Tremere are eviller still, this would indicate that Strauss would have to be a whole lot worse if he's either in trouble with or afraid of getting in trouble with the Pyramid. Like holy shit how depraved would you have to be to be worried about them getting mad at you? (Some have pointed out it might be because of the gargoyle, which could be true but also doesn't disprove my point here either.)

(That, or he's a potential defector, which is unlikely given that a Malk Fledgling comments on his loyalty to the Pyramid; he is clan before sect to the end.)

TL;DR: Affably Probably-Eviller-Than-Most-Tremere-Which-Is-Seriously-Saying-Something nerd who likes to teach, is very calm and controlled but very expressive with his body language and hands. Very chill, and strongly loyal to the Pyramid. Would torture your best friend to death For Science but be exceedingly polite to them in the process.

Not sure if that helps at all lol.

[charmantevamp]

🚫 Have they ever broken one of the Traditions? (This is includes the Masquerade) 🧛‍♀️ Do they have any preference regarding who they feed on/how they feed?

VTM oc ask meme.

None that they will admit to, cause Audrey’s a survivor. They were even as a human. Even if it means lying, sacrificing ‘goodness’ and ethics. Note: Audrey’s a social climber because she has/had to be to survive, “Nothing comes for free, sir.” Until 1910 Audrey is perhaps excessively concerned with money and stability, but she isn’t my Ventrue Byzantine vampire, Livia. What tradition has Audrey broke? … she’s never broken the masquerade to the point of endangering herself or her fellow kindred. But if someone in private and quietly asks what she is, she will answer truthfully, she didn’t ask for vampirism, it was very much forced upon her. So the masquerade. It was the gutter or the embrace. More on the masquerade. It’s not necessarily a “tradition” but she’s caught feelings for humans, which given their fragility you aren’t supposed to do. But it’s not explicitly stated so Audrey would simply say, “what was I supposed to do? They/she/he were blonde, pretty and nice to me.”

Evildoers, though obviously what defines mortal “evil” is relative as evil in general is relative. Generally, the kind of person, especially men who use their power to do harm to others and abuse their power. Audrey knows she’s not a good person, or kindred, rather, but she considers it passably better than doing harm to innocents or feeding on the ill and dying.

[gorbalsvampire]

@silkenred don't leave gold in the tags! pure gold!

we should talk more about cities that are vampires. cities that are cold and wet and sink into your bones and stay there. cities that are hungry and want to live. dead cities that dont know they're dead and suck the life force of their people to maintain the delusion. cities with harbors that are actually mouths; one-way entries. cities that are devastatingly lonely and see consumption as love

[gorbalsvampire]

D'you have any player-facing or secret ST-eyes-only systems that you like to use for tracking SI exposure in your games? Or (shunting you a soapbox here) for seeding and making good on consequences generally?

So in general, my absolute favourite way to generate The Quencies is Succees At A Cost. "I'll offer you a devil's bargain," to quote the Master, Mr. Carl.

Kick enough Successes at a Cost down the trail and you can have them escalate into something quite spectacular, whatever that turns out to be. The same for Messy Critical consequences. "There's been a Masquerade breach, but I need to work out the details, so it'll be with you in a couple of sessions' time." That sort of thing.

I also like to frame story beats as poison chalices and sadistic choices. Yes, you can have the Dunsirns' help in covering up the assassination attempt on that Baron you murdered, but they want her property, her territory, and you to know exactly who took the fall for you and what that's worth.

What else? Every chronicle needs a character who's talked about more than they are seen. Telegraphy is key, but don't go too hard on it - we don't want players going "we've got a BADASS over here" about them. I think the trick is having other SPCs be afraid of them, or answerable to them, or clearly dependent on them.

In my Glasgow game, Miss Drake the scourge didn't appear very often, but she was mentioned in the context of "what keeps this praxis running?" and "why doesn't anyone hunt in the West End?" Sir Thomas Dunsirn - Big Tam to his family - was the unseen hand of the nocturnal economy and, more to the point, the hand holding Alistair's leash.

There's this horrid old man who somehow gets you to do whatever he wants. You first met him when he physically and psychically assaulted his way into your turf and your crime scene. You owe him your continued liberty. And he has a boss. At that point, player imagination is doing the work.

But while we're here, I'm also going to talk about Nemesis Points. I took these a late-series Fighting Fantasy gamebook, Night Dragon, and I love them. As you quest to find the location of the titular Night Dragon and prevent its resurrection by the cult who worship it, you have various avenues of investigation to pursue, some of which are of course dead ends: you also have various bits of side business, in accordance with custom. Every prevarication, every attempt made, even the successful ones, adds some Nemesis Points to your tally. If you haven't found the Night Dragon's lair by the time you reach a given Nemesis score, Your Adventure Is Over in a sense far greater than "you got mugged by three pirates and died again."

When I was running face to face games, I'd sometimes put one of those spindown - or in this case spin up - life counters from Magic on the table. Whenever my players prevaricated, overthought, faffed about or otherwise didn't make the most of our time together, the die would spin up a little.

I think something like that could adapt to Masquerade cockups very nicely. People love a meter.

I find the Response Algorithm and Institutional Conflict systems in the Anarch and Camarilla books are a bit of a headache, but they're there if you need them. Of course, Second Inquisition also has a chapter explicitly for doing this, for running your SI presence as an active and hostile force with its own goals - almost a solo side game for the ST.

This isn't something I've used - yet - as Wild Roses was very much me finding the transitions I needed to make out of Revised era thinking, and one of those was vampire-focus, less interest in what mortals want and are doing. The SI there was a cool threat that warmed up in the third story when I wanted to raise the stakes and do a cool bank heist opening session, and again when a returning player gave me the opportunity to tell a story about collaborators and how they should die in shame. I had ideas for how they served the vampire story and they were only developed in so far as they did that.

I'm not actually very happy with how I characterised and played my SI characters, and I'd like to do them justice with another outing. One where they actually have a project. It'll be more work for me, but if I'm going to do this Spy vs. Spy chronicle concept justice, I'm going to have to do that work, aren't I?

[viahiptop]

Vampire: The Masquerade - Justice

Bonus: Painter/Decorator simulator.

[gorbalsvampire]

I'm so glad someone else cares.

Do we want to get into how V5 specifically has had – gotta count on my fingers here – five distinct development teams in six years?

There's the "White Wolf" imprint that Paradox briefly used to release the game, before multiple furores and brouhahas around distasteful content, bad actors, neo-Nazi dogwhistles and two out of three in hoise devs resigning brought that to an end. These books – V5 core, Camarilla, Anarchs and Fall of London (lol) were distributed by Modiphius because Paradox didn't have an established process for that (and I'm not sure they do now).

There's Onyx Path, who produced two big books and a raft of stretch goal PDFs as licensors.

There's the "safe pair of hands" era, where VtM's longest serving lead developer came back to Paradox and developed the antagonist supplements and Player's Guide.

And now there's... whatever's going on now. The World of Darkness, distributed by Renegade Games, and apparently developed by everyone who hasn't been fired or quit during the previous chain of events.

AND! White Wolf LARP split off into a whole separate company, By Night Studios, which developed parallel to Onyx Path and did things rather differently. They're printing the LARP rules for V5. They're still influential, because prestige LARP is a big showcase for the IP, and By Night staff – Jason Carl and Dhaunae DeVir especially – have ended up in core roles on the Paradox team.

Bottom line though: Paradox Interactive own it all, and the buck stops with them. The rest is licensing arrangements and shell branding.

To complicate matters still further, a lot of the same people are still around, with different levels of responsibility, because a lot of the actual development has been done on a freelance basis or by the same people in different capacities.

Rich Thomas was art director at White Wolf and is creative director at Onyx Path, and his current relationship with Paradox is unknown.

Jason Carl cut his teeth at By Night Studios, the LARP publication arm, before moving into his current role as WoD marketing manager for Paradox. Same with Dhaunae DeVir, partnerships manager.

Justin Achilli has been lead developer three times: at White Wolf (for Revised VtM and Requiem 1e), Onyx Path (for V20's core book) and Paradox (for V5 on the Player's Guide, Sabbat and I think Second Inquisition books).

Matthew Dawkins is a contributing writer to Paradox but a lead developer at Onyx Path (that's why Chicago By Night and Cults of the Blood Gods are so different from the V5 launch books – he had creative control there).

Mark Rein-Hagen created the game but was merely a contributing writer to V5. Exactly what he wrote is somewhat mysterious (if a chapter is badly received, don't admit which of your team wrote it), but he stepped back after the Chechnya chapter fiasco and he is pretty close, geographically...

Isn't it interesting that the trans women who led development on Requiem 2e at Onyx Path don't show up on the Paradox team, even though at least one of them had been contributing since the White Wolf era? Their ideas certainly appear, in decidedly crunked up form, but where's the credit for Rose Bailey and Olivia Hill?

(There's a lot of murky he-said she-said personal and industry politics attached to that last name, much of which would be outright libellous to repeat since I can't verify any of it, but still... credit where it's due. I can say that Hill's Hunter heartbreaker, iHunt, is a good game, and if she's gotten to release Savage Garden, her Vampire heartbreaker, we will get to see what V5 could have been.)

And isn't it interesting that the most safety-tool-focused book, Blood Stained Love, is also the only V5 book with a female lead developer? Juhanna Petterson, take a bow.

I am legitimately fascinated by production circumstances: because of the autism, but also because when you know who wrote what and you've heard enough scuttlebutt to suspect who wrote what isn't being copped to, the stylistic differences and creative choices start making sense.

Because it's a thing that pops up multiple times and I'm pedantic.

White Wolf publishing doesn't exist anymore and hasn't for a good while. V5 is made by Paradox.

For context: In 2006 White Wolf publishing has been merged with CCP. WW would handle traditional publishing while CCP would deal with some mmo stuff they wanted to do.

At one point in 2011 a shit ton of employees were laid off and the creative director then went off to create onyx path publishing which published White Wolf stuff on CCP's (and now Paradox) behalf.

In 2014 more staff was laid off and the mmo was canceled. Then Paradox bought White Wolf. Since 2018 White Wolf has been restructured directly into Paradox and hence doesn't exist.

[charmantevamp]

🙌

I couldn't decide, so you get 4.

Lucas (verse: canon) — he/him, bisexual, a blonde pretty boy from the Rhône-Alpes, a try-hard wannabe poet, think Lestat de Lioncourt in the extreme alternate universe he never gets vampirism. Audrey's first proposition also 'above her station', her first 'lay.' Audrey's first kiss was one of her mamans friends daughters, somehow Lucas and the harlotting were more scandalous then kissing a girl, the 18th century huh? Regarding dandyism. Regarding classicism.

Gustave (verse: canon) — he/him, unlabelled queer, artist and elevated French court nobility, 3rd husband, a supposed love-match, "why did I think he'd be different?!" he is eventually murdered by Audrey in something I'd call premeditated self-defence. This also predates her vampirism. There was no self-defence plea in the 18th century, certainly not for women, least of all for harlots.

Jody (verse: canon) — she/her, bisexual & sapphic, dominatrix in the Harris list of convent garden (which Audrey was on famously for at least a decade) friend of Audrey's late mother. Audrey's mother herself was an actress and elevated 'left-handed wife'. Queerplatonic relationship of Audrey's.

Ferid (verse: vtm) — he/him, pansexual. A Toreador harpy and a manipulative bastard, a club owner, sired by the Prince of London herself. Audrey doesn't stand with his political views, but, indulging him helps her forget. One could call it addictive. Audrey would simply say she's 'into him', Audrey thinks 'feeling alive' is worth a lot. A friend of mine’s original character.

[aztarion]

one of my fav things listening to actual-plays of vtm is when someone gets torpored and then spends the rest of the session meta shit-talking their coterie while everyones scrambling to rouse them

[badass-at-fandoming]

Do you have any headcanons for Beckett? Specifically about his life as a mortal? It sucks that we know so little about his past, other than the fact that Beckett "wasn't the name he was born with," and that he was embraced in the early 1700s in England. I find it strange that we know so little about him despite the fact he's practically a mascot for VTM.

Hi Nonny! I'm so used that World of Darkness' lacuna that it doesn't seem strange to me anymore, but it is quite a cold-water shock, huh? The game designers leave blanks on purpose so we can fill them in. I remember this one interview with Justin Achilli where the interviewer said the Book of Nod was (forcibly) published in 1993 (same as irl). He corrected her and said, "No, no, you have to say it was published in the early 1990s, so any Storyteller can fit it into their '90s chronicle, like if they want to do an adventure to prevent or pursue its publication." His answer stuck with me. As a fan I was like "...why does it matter, let us have this fixed date" but as a writer/baby game dev I was like "OH, that is CLEVER." It leaves room for creativity! Any adventure can follow the meta-canon! That's such a good game design trick! As a fan I find it frustrating!

This game design principle sticks even to the mascot. I've seen stuff that Beckett was a pirate, a privateer, an Oxford scholar, and/or an attractive dying waif. @chinesegal was kind enough to ask me various Beckett backstory questions, that you can find here: bathing practice, opinions on creationism, trans experience. I'd also point you to @vampire-the-askerade for their delightful Beckett writings.

My only like, firm headcanon for Beckett is that he has to be kind enough to warn the fledgling in VtMB. If someone's interpretation of his character doesn't allow for that, my interest tanks. I'm not even totally married to the backstory in my fanfic and idle-thoughts-before-falling-asleep scenario. Those were all convenient pretexts for me to write cuddles and snuggles, haha. I'd love more kudos and comments on my fanfic if you read those stories, but below the cut is the bullet point version.

A Kinder Universe series drops hints of a possible backstory, especially "A Monastery Hides More Than Bones," "It Pleased the Lord," and "Forbidden by God and King."

Birth name is Matthew Lowell.

"Matthew" after the Christian Apostle. The Matthew of the Catholic Bible was a tax collector and therefore a pariah in society (just like Beckett is kinda like an outsider to Kindred Society). He was called to join Jesus out of a crowd (like Aristotle called Beckett out of the wild, or how Caine singles out Beckett during Gehenna). After Jesus's Ascension, Matthew wrote a Gospel, which translates to "good news," and spread it around, (like Beckett spreads his theories like "Good news, everyone! Gehenna is fake!). Matthew's Gospel is focused on how Jesus fulfills Hebrew prophecy and begins with a long genealogy connecting Jesus to King David (Beckett is obsessed with the genealogy of the Kindred race and studies/fulfills/collects prophecies).

"Lowell" is the Anglicized surname of Norman French "lou," which translates to "wolf." Beckett's dark brown, straight hair and white skin is a common coloring with French people. We don't know his original eye color, but blue would clinch the deal. There's a long history of migration between France and England, both of people and culture. It's in the realm of possibility he's of French descent, at least partially.

Born in Oxford. One of many siblings. Mother died in childbirth. Kid during the Great Plague of London in 1665-1666. Good father.

Attended one of the Oxford universities and got his doctorate in some sort of proto-anthropology.

I think I've talked about it before, but I have an Embrace fic idea an Embrace scenario I've thought about real hard before falling asleep.

Beckett has the same tombstone data as above. He teaches at his Oxford university, but is not very popular among his department peers. He's too into evidence and the scientific method, and he's constantly quarreling with his colleagues.

Aristotle and Anatole visit Oxford to set up a satellite library. Possibly they needed a break from Paris for some Kindred political reason.

Kindred brothel owner owes them a favor and lets them stay in the brothel while the duo sets up the library haven

Beckett visits this same brothel to let off steam, and he's gifted to Anatole as a blood doll for the night. Except Beckett is like, "Can I rant to you about how stupid my colleagues are?" and this leads to a genuine discussion of scholarship and, later, friendship

Beckett becomes Anatole's regular client, and Anatole proposes to Aristotle that Aristotle Embraces Beckett

Aristotle approaches the Prince of Oxford and something something Kindred politics and Cassandra Darby kill steals Beckett and dumps him in the forest

The two Noddists learn that Beckett has been Embraced, and they try to find him. Anatole is so distraught that he is Not Helping the search at all, so Aristotle sends him back to Paris. Aristotle keeps up the search and eventually finds and adopts a feral Beckett baby

Aristotle and Beckett rejoin Anatole in Paris. Anatole has regained his equilibrium and takes over Beckett's Kindred education.

Yeah! I hope that answered your question, Nonny. Thank you for the ask!

[badass-at-fandoming]

You should talk with @mekanikaltrifle about horrifying banes :D

i think more bloodlines than just clan nosferatu should change the fledgling's physical features upon embrace, even if not to such an obvious degree. like i think most people subconsciously assume that a toreador embrace makes you more beautiful somehow, and that can be cool too, especially if the beauty is really offputting, too perfect, or it gets rid of something that the embraced person actually liked about themselves but is considered unattractive on a wider scale, like a crooked broken nose or something. similarly a malkavian embrace may not *actually* change anything, not to other people's perception, but the freshly embraced malkavian might find themselves struggle with depersonalization and feel like their body is no longer theirs much more harshly than any other clan. gangrels get noticably hairier, and if they shaved their body hair, it regrows and they're stuck with them forever. i dont have ideas for every clan but im also gonna give an honorary mention to cappadocians who were absolutely fucking nerfed in that regard in v5 by merging them into hecata and removing their curse