#Tynion so clearly had Batman Punchline and Harley at the forefront of the story

[distort-opia]

I know you ship batjokes, but what do you think about jarley?

Well, I can't say I ship it, but I do find it interesting-- much like I find Bruce's other relationships interesting. It'd be tough not to, since in Punchline's own words:

-- Batman (2016) #93

Harley is the person to get closest to Joker emotionally other than Batman. And with the big disclaimer that this is all my personal opinion which I got specifically asked about, I'll put a slightly longer discussion of the subject under the cut.

To be honest, I dislike how Jarley has been reduced solely to the label of "abusive relationship", with Harley's own darker traits being swept under the rug or fully attributed to Joker's influence. Doctor Harleen Quinzell had her own demons and psychopathic tendencies, before ever meeting Joker; and it was a sense of deep loneliness that drove her to him, and which he exploited. At the end of the day, that does seem like what it amounted to, especially in the beginning... Harley feeling horribly alone, and latching onto Joker to fill that void, with Joker manipulating it and taking control. However, Joker would not have been able to take advantage of any kind of attachment if Harleen's own darkness didn't relate to Joker's own somehow.

And well, thing is... Joker, in his own way, cared about Harley. Put bluntly, he wouldn't have bothered to keep her around otherwise. It's a Black Label comic, but my mind always goes to this phrasing when thinking of Jarley:

-- Birds of Prey (2020)

"Crawled in each other's void." And Joker's void was Batman-shaped, just like she says. At this point it's been canonized again and again that Joker is in love with Batman, with Harley herself being the one to confirm it more than once... and it is fascinating how Batjokes and Jarley interact, most tragically when it comes to Harley. Because she was jealous of Batman and the hold he had over Joker's attention. Part of what kept her next to Joker, trying harder and harder to please him (like in Mad Love) was the hope that eventually, she could become as special to him as he was to her. She saw how human Joker could be about Batman, and wanted to nurture and help him turn it into something more, but in the end it probably became the most hurtful thing-- Joker being incapable of caring about anyone else but Batman, no matter how hard she tried or the things she endured.

...Anyway, Anon, to summarize, I do think Jarley is interesting :)) That being said, it's also annoying how it's being used to turn Joker into a one-dimensional cartoonishly evil abuser, ever since Harley's redemption arc began. Better writers could find ways to turn Harley into an anti-hero without bulldozing over previous characterization for her or Joker, but alas.

[itsblueberry13-blog]

#this is part of why Joker War is very interesting to me too#Tynion so clearly had Batman Punchline and Harley at the forefront of the story#as three main relationships Joker has. each of them at different stages of having wanted something from him#Punchline in the beginning. Bruce in the middle. Harley at the end#and Harley being the one to try and talk Punchline and Bruce into leaving BECAUSE she's the one having had enough#...but it's wild how through the sheer nature of comics. Batman is essentially INCAPABLE of leaving Joker behind#DC will only stop telling their story when it stops selling and God knows when that'll happen#so Harley tells Bruce 'this story needs an ending'#and Bruce tries to walk away from Joker#but in the very next issue Bruce says 'Joker was right' and implements the lessons Joker tried to teach him#how's that an ending? it isn't and it can't be#aaaanyway. me and my brand of overthinking as usual#asks#batman#joker#jarley#batjokes#my meta

I know you ship batjokes, but what do you think about jarley?

Well, I can't say I ship it, but I do find it interesting-- much like I find Bruce's other relationships interesting. It'd be tough not to, since in Punchline's own words:

-- Batman (2016) #93

Harley is the person to get closest to Joker emotionally other than Batman. And with the big disclaimer that this is all my personal opinion which I got specifically asked about, I'll put a slightly longer discussion of the subject under the cut.

To be honest, I dislike how Jarley has been reduced solely to the label of "abusive relationship", with Harley's own darker traits being swept under the rug or fully attributed to Joker's influence. Doctor Harleen Quinzell had her own demons and psychopathic tendencies, before ever meeting Joker; and it was a sense of deep loneliness that drove her to him, and which he exploited. At the end of the day, that does seem like what it amounted to, especially in the beginning... Harley feeling horribly alone, and latching onto Joker to fill that void, with Joker manipulating it and taking control. However, Joker would not have been able to take advantage of any kind of attachment if Harleen's own darkness didn't relate to Joker's own somehow.

And well, thing is... Joker, in his own way, cared about Harley. Put bluntly, he wouldn't have bothered to keep her around otherwise. It's a Black Label comic, but my mind always goes to this phrasing when thinking of Jarley:

-- Birds of Prey (2020)

"Crawled in each other's void." And Joker's void was Batman-shaped, just like she says. At this point it's been canonized again and again that Joker is in love with Batman, with Harley herself being the one to confirm it more than once... and it is fascinating how Batjokes and Jarley interact, most tragically when it comes to Harley. Because she was jealous of Batman and the hold he had over Joker's attention. Part of what kept her next to Joker, trying harder and harder to please him (like in Mad Love) was the hope that eventually, she could become as special to him as he was to her. She saw how human Joker could be about Batman, and wanted to nurture and help him turn it into something more, but in the end it probably became the most hurtful thing-- Joker being incapable of caring about anyone else but Batman, no matter how hard she tried or the things she endured.

...Anyway, Anon, to summarize, I do think Jarley is interesting :)) That being said, it's also annoying how it's being used to turn Joker into a one-dimensional cartoonishly evil abuser, ever since Harley's redemption arc began. Better writers could find ways to turn Harley into an anti-hero without bulldozing over previous characterization for her or Joker, but alas.