#This is literally Storytelling 101: Show Don't Tell

[muffinlance]

Do you get the impression the live action is treating us like utter morons?? Like I thought that making it aimed at an older audience would open the doors for more subtle story telling, but no, they're just using monologues to tell us eveything! Like in the second episode Katara's like 'oh his power isn't that he's the avatar, it's that he ~connects~ to people'. Girl we're not idiots we can see that!! And the first episode with Aang's goddawful 'I don't want this responsibility' monologue

THIS, YES. The word that keeps coming to mind is definitely "subtlety". The show for literal children? Had it. The remake for adults? Not so much.

[blues-valentine]

pws/rinis are still going w the “pw and rini would’ve been endgame if it wasn’t for olivia” claiming “justice for ej” and just being bitter individuals is hilarious. they had a year to cope.

I think it’s a choice to still engage in a media you don’t like and being bitter about it and continue clinging to a statement that is untrue.

A thing I’ve learn from years of watching TV shows is that paying attention to the storytelling is essential and what has been true to HSMTMTS is that most of the times what you see it’s not exactly what the show is telling you. They're actually great with subtext. I've said this before, the typical audience for HSMTMTS severely lacks media literacy because they've missed the most obvious signs in storytelling 101 that I feel like an unbiased person would pick up on.

PWs/Rinis are only watching the show at face value because if they dig deeper they would be forced to admit the narrative build around Ricky and Gina has been stronger than any ship in that show. The effort and attention to detail build into their story line and dialogue is very telling. Rina gets the most foreshadowing and parallels out of every couple since Season 1. So, some be purposely misreading the signs and would hold onto any idea to make it true.

A creator of a show does not film a whole confession scene, in this case between Ricky and Gina (at the same time he filmed the Ricky and Nini confession) for a couple they are not planning. Everything in TV cost time and money. A creator doesn’t give a ship a whole secret plot that only them know to create suspense for a mid-season finale reveal if they aren’t planning on moving forward with them. After that flashback on 206 was revelead. It was a wrap. Truly, people that interpreted that as closure don't know how to read subtext at all.

The IRL drama + the hit hadn’t blow up yet when they wrote Season 2 and when they were filming the first episodes of the season. 201 already foreshadows how Ricky and Nini were not going to work out. I had said this several times. It was there on neon signs. Ricky and Nini were not build to be the "happily ever after" couple. There’s an actual interview from the creator saying he wants to portray realistic breakups in teen media.

Nini and Ricky were going to break up and end exactly how it ended at the end of Season 2, had Olivia stayed or not. PW was build to fail since day 1. There were multiple neon signs on 2B that literally tells you this. 209 is full of them. Gina used EJ to move on and because he was the easier route. He was the safest seat on the plane (literally). Gina hadn't moved on from Ricky. The fact that Ricky and Nini broke up on 208 and later Gina and EJ became basically the romantic plot on 209 is storytelling 101. I could tell you how this choice in narrative always ends up in teen dramas. Ricky and Gina were always the couple being kept apart for narrative and therefore the endgame.

Also, creators having to cut screen time of a ship or dynamic in order to build another one is never a good sign. They knew PW would not be believable if they keep Ricky and Gina interacting and Season 3 proves this.

And even if Ricky and Nini + EJ and Gina were the planned endgames when the show was originally created. Things change. HSMTMTS is not the first show that changes ships during filming the moment unexpected actors show superior chemistry and it won’t be the last. Dawson’s Creek says hello. It’s been told before Gina was going to be a plot device for Rini until her chemistry with Josh on 105 was too good to waste and so there were changes. PWs and Rinis conventionally forget this statement was made. Sofia Wylie was rooting for Rina since Season 1 and she has always delivered on that.

PWs (mostly ex Rinis) continue being bitter Rini isn’t endgame and use Olivia as their consolation narrative. The other side of PWs have EJ as their favorite character and have proved they don't care about Gina on her own. Rinis supported PW because as long as PW was a thing, in their minds Rini was still a possibility.

[super-paper]

If you had to say, do you think this past few arcs of MHA, including the this final one, are rushed? I know many, many people have said it is so far, but like I just don’t see?? It seems that the pacing has been quite good, and the important moments are given impact, But the common complaints I see are that the story isn’t given enough room to breathe or it feels like it is going off a checklist. Do you think so too?

Yes and no. I do think some plot points have been expedited, but not out of lack of consideration for the story/characters or out of a desire to rush the story to an ending (or because Hori "secretly hates mha and just wants to get everything over with," or whatever absurd and insensitive nonsense redditwtter believes).

Rather, I always get the sense that Hori's always frustrated that he can't do even more for the series-- and recent interviews only cement this impression. MHA is his passion project and it's clear that he loves it deeply, but the constraints of this medium and his health problems sometimes make it difficult for him to fully realize that passion. Like, I don't want to overstep my boundaries as a fan and make insensitive assumptions, but-- as someone who also loves storytelling and art, I imagine it must be so unbearably frustrating to not be able to tell your story exactly the way you want to because of those aforementioned constraints. Despite that, he doesn't give up-- and as much as I want him to rest, I also can't help being in complete awe of his art/composition and how he delivers this level of quality on a near-weekly basis. He has an absurd level of talent.

Anyway. I feel that overall, act three has been paced just fine. The final act started out a bit rough with the dark hero and starnstripe arcs feeling mildly disjointed from each other-- but Hori found his rhythm again by the start of the war and thus far has managed to tie the themes and arcs of his core cast together in a satisfying way. I feel like people who claim that the pacing has been bad are kind of letting the cold, unrelenting march of real time cloud their judgement (MEMENTO MANGA AND MEMENTO MORI BROSKIS 🤘)-- but if you go back and binge read from the start of act 3 to now (306-405), it's easier to see that the final act has been paced well imho.

I've also mentioned this before, but, I feel people need to take the fact that Horikoshi introduced a lot of MHA's characters and plot elements when he was healthier into consideration with their critiques. Ongoing manga should not be critiqued the same way that one would critique a finished book-- understanding of the medium and its constraints are absolutely factors that need to be considered before you start bashing things like pacing or arguing that things have been "retconned," I feel.

And I also feel that as fans, we do have a responsibility to be aware of the grueling work conditions of this medium and the effects it has on the author, and then temper our expectations accordingly instead of expecting Horikoshi to neatly resolve every single subplot or minor character arc (For example: "Why aren't Momo, Denki, and Kirishima getting their moments in the final war?" bc they all got their big moments during the first war; "Why didn't we -see- Izuku and Toshinori developing their relationships with ALL of the 1A kids, Class 1A vs Deku and IronMight felt so forced!" *afo voice* BECAUSE THEY'RE EXTRAS-- bc this would be an absurd request even If Horikoshi didn't have health problems. It's perfectly fine to narrow the focus of Izuku's relationships down to certain key members of his class to emphasize the effect he has on people and narrow the focus of Toshi's relationships down to two or three other students to show his growth as a teacher-- the story would become excessively bloated & lose focus if we tried developing *every single side character/relationship*. This is literally basic writing 101).

I do agree that glossing over certain emotional beats in the aftermath of the first war was unfortunate and unlike what we'd come to expect from Hori (Midnight's death being treated like a footnote instead of a chance to explore the concept of personal loss in the students is the most egregious example)-- but for the past year or so we've seen a return to form in emphasizing/exploring the emotions of the core characters, so I do have high hopes for the finale/epilogue of Act 3!

[my-mt-heart]

First of all, thank you for providing us with a caryl help hotline and calming people down in these trying times.

Second of all I feel like I really need to vent. I wasn't a caryl shipper until season 9 came out. Sure, they always had chemistry and potential to become something more and I was never against them being together but I mainly watch shows to appreciate the storytelling and character building so I accept whatever happens (if it's still a good story). And I'm never really angry if something I ship doesn't go canon because I can always read fanfics and make fanart and that's enough for me. I also try to be respectful to other ships because at the end of the day it's all for fun and everyone should enjoy what they like.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is I KNOW when my ships go canon. I really pride myself on being able to read the story right and analysing different subtexts correctly.

And oh my god caryl is literally angst 101. I've never been more sure of any other ship going canon because the writing itself made me ship it. I know that people who are really invested are worried it might go wrong but you really shouldn't be. Since season 9 it's been so obvious. You don't write angst just because. You need a reason. Why would they spend so much time showing Ezekiel's jealousy, Negan's teasing, Jerry's support? And soooo many parallels with Leah. People freak out so much because of these little spoilers but think of it this way - angst is supposed to make you feel uneasy so that the end result is a hundred times more rewarding. So it's actually good people are freaking out, that means it's working lol

My third point is I'm really tired of twd fandom's inability to see past their made-up headcanons. I keep seeing these random delusional comments everywhere. Like, before s11 some people were saying Leah will definitely return with Daryl's child. Wth??? Or that a dead character will return after 5 seasons of, well, being dead. I can't believe people are serious about this. Whenever I see someone saying Daryl will hook up with a random character or suddenly profess his undying love for them next episode I just end up laughing for a few minutes and then loosing faith in humanity. I'm really sad people don't appreciate Daryl's character for what it is and keep projecting themselves onto him just because they themselves want to get laid irl or want a hot bf.

I've had a very similar experience watching the show and letting the writing speak for itself. IMO, Daryl and Carol are being primed for romance and the angst only solidifies it more. When it comes to fandom, the way I see it is everyone is allowed to take what they can from the show and if it conflicts with my own understanding, oh well? It's all subjective anyway and doesn't (necessarily) influence the story the writers want to tell and what we're going to see.

But that's a really interesting observation about people projecting themselves onto Daryl. At times, I have wondered if Bethyl was fueled by some of the younger fans wanting him to be interested in somebody like them.

[seddm]

How many times has the show violated storytelling 101 lessons like "Show Don't Tell" & "Chekhov's gun"? Can you think of any instances off the top of your head?

Not that often honestly, I think that narratively wise their biggest issue so far has been keeping the Blood Moon as such a vague and unclear but constant presence for three seasons, just to suddenly go “no you see it was a curse and several characters in universe confirms it and Tom knew about it and while it’s probably not true all the characters are going to believe that was the source of feelings”.

IF it doesn’t get relevant again the Booth Buddies photo strip would also be a glaring infraction of Chekhov’s Gun. Another one, even if to a lesser degree, would be the ceiling in St. Olga, with the demons and gargoyles, since it got an ominous setting shot that lingered on the symbols AND the same monsters could be seen in Globgor’s mural in Surviving the Spiderbites. But these can still be relevant in the rest of the season so it’s too early to know for sure.

“Show don’t Tell” has always been one of the show’s strongest points, with the most glaring exceptions being the recent Curse of the Blood Moon, for similar reasons as those listed above, and Kelly’s World, where they literally had fireworks and music and the sun setting and Kelly going “Yeah break up buddies can kiss when the mood is weird”.

[princepondincherry]

#This is literally Storytelling 101: Show Don't Tell#I'm sorry scriptwriters I know you were working before your union won minimal staffing in writers' rooms and decent pay and all that#but You Know What You Did#Also cgi artists plz unionize#A few more hours on Momo would have maybe taken him further out of the nightmare monkey puppet category

Do you get the impression the live action is treating us like utter morons?? Like I thought that making it aimed at an older audience would open the doors for more subtle story telling, but no, they're just using monologues to tell us eveything! Like in the second episode Katara's like 'oh his power isn't that he's the avatar, it's that he ~connects~ to people'. Girl we're not idiots we can see that!! And the first episode with Aang's goddawful 'I don't want this responsibility' monologue

THIS, YES. The word that keeps coming to mind is definitely "subtlety". The show for literal children? Had it. The remake for adults? Not so much.