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sweetescapeartist · 4 years ago

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MY DBS MANGA CHAPTER 70 REVIEW

We learn in the last chapter that the Cerealian Dragon's name is Toronbo when Granolah speaks Namekian. Toronbo grants Granolah's wish but can't make Granolah stronger than the gods.

Here's the confusion I have... Goku is a mortal beyond GoDs so making Granolah the strongest mortal is making him stronger than gods. If you wanna say Beerus has been training and is now stronger than Goku, there's still a problem. It was said that Goku and Vegeta were stronger than some GoDs right before the ToP (but that might be anime only, so maybe it doesn't apply here). So Granolah is stronger than GoDs no matter what. If the gods that Toronbo is speaking of are the Angels, then that means Granolah is Ultra Instinct level of power since Goku is the lowest in Angel tier. But whatever. Bottom line is Granolah is temporarily stronger than Goku who may or may not be stronger than Beerus.

Granolah gets his wish granted and the cost is shortening his life... cool. Not much to say except let's see how its executed.

(I recently read that in DBXV2, during the Infinite History Saga, Videl is enchanted with Towa's Dark Magic spell by Dabura shaving off her life but granting her greater power. So granting power at the cost of lifespan has been done in DB before. Not in canon but in the games.)

Also, Granolah's life being shortened to 3 yrs got me thinking... Currently it's almost AGE 781 in the DBS manga timeline. Goku leaves to train Uub in AGE 784. We got 3 yrs left. The original manga shows Bulma said she hadn't seen Goku in 5 yrs. How I see DBS is that it is an alternate timeline that just happens to have a similar outcome to the EoZ.

So... why is Vegeta learing from Beerus again if Beerus isn't that strong now? Is Vegeta being like Krillin and continuing his learning from a master weaker than him, but gaining wisdom & knowledge? I-is Vegeta becoming Krillin 2.0?! (More like dollar-store Krillin)

I do think beerus got stronger tho. He seems very confident that Vegeta can get stronger from learning from him. Beerus probably saw Goku get UI then decide to train aftet the ToP

Anyways, Beerus is teaching us about hakai/destruction energy. Its erasing something from existence, not just destroying it (we already knew that). But, Vegeta quickly figures out how to do it anyways. By destroying a tiny pebble...

A tangent again but I personally think Piccolo is capable of easily learning Hakai energy. Think about it. Piccolo can create clothing out of nothing, why could he not do the reverse?

Goku is uninterested in what Beerus & Vegeta are doing. I dont know about you, but it sounds like Goku thinks that he's above Beerus in strength. Beerus & Vegeta aren't considered a challenge to him in any way. Goku sees UI as more important & better than anything Beerus has to teach, and Goku is right. Plus Goku learned Hakai on his own while Vegeta needs Beerus to teach him. It's a waste of Goku's time to learn it again.

(God Comics is funny. I imagine Toribot writes them)

Goku says "Let's see which one of us can be the strongest in the universe!" Really, Goku...? At present time, Goku is the strongest mortal in the universe already. He should know that. Then Vegeta for some reason thinks he will become the strongest in the universe. The last time manga Vegeta was the strongest mortal in the universe was... never. He's always behind Goku or whatever new opponent arises. This scene is meant to be comedic that they're arguing over who will be the greatest but it's not funny to me. And yet Vegeta fans still hold on for hope.

But why is Goku concerned about being the strongest between him & Vegeta? Goku is far above Vegeta. They're not rivals at this point. Also, Goku was the strongest in the universe until just a few moments ago. Goku should be saying "I knew bein' the strongest wouldn't last for too long. Roshi did tell me there will always be somebody stronger out there. Hehe! This is gettin' me excited! I can't wait to meet 'em!" (This would alsp parallel Monaito giving Granolah the same advice Goku already knows.)

Also, I guess Broly isn't that strong after all. Bye Broly, you served your purpose. And to think that Goku had said that he thinks Broly is stronger than Beerus...

Oh yeah. So Vegeta destroys a pebble. Impressive? Goku kinda gives a compliment or he is practically saying "Good job Vegeta! You're doing great following in my footsteps!" Seriously, this would be so much better and cooler if this seperate paths of training began right after the Universe 6 vs Universe 7 tournament. That would be the perfect spot to have them train under Beerus & Whis. [Vegeta using Hakai against Merged Zamasu, Goku able to fight Merged Zamasu temporarily because he is getting better at letting his body move on its own, Toppo & Vegeta using Hakai against each other as Goku & Jiren use power above GoDs. That would work so much better.]

Then Vegeta says he's gonna destroy bigger things soon... is that supposed to be more impressive? Its not. But this it to build up Vegeta even though there is nothing amazing about anything he is doing at the moment. Maybe later tho.

So Cerealians can't grow beards. Also I guess Granolah's race don't age? His hair grew when his lifespan was shortened but he has no wrinkles. It seems that they age more gracefully than Saiyans. If he has some wrinkles he would have looked cooler imo. Or those lines under the eyes at the very least. If the wish shortened his life & made his hair grow, it should have also showed that he aged. (Here's an edit I made of "Grampa Granolah." You're welcome)

And remember Vegeta destroying a pebble? Granolah can suddenly destroy big rocks! Cool right?! No? Its not cool? Showing Granolah destroy a much larger object right afterwards kinda belittles Vegeta's accomplishment.

Oatmil is surprised by a boulder exploding. This means one of 2 things. Oatmil is stupid & never saw an Granolah explode a boulder. Or it's implying that the boulder exploding is some technique Oatmil doesn't know of. Idk how he can tell its any different from just blowing up a rock with ki. I think it's supposed to be destruction energy. If it is then, ok. If getting his wish was so easy, then why can't he suddenly learn destruction as well?

Yay! Monaito! (This really should be a Namekian focused arc)

Granolah reminds me of Zamasu with his attitude a bit. Monaito tells him somebody stronger will definetly appear. Granolah has become like Vegeta and is over confident, so he is destined to get humbled. And think about this. Goku can probably train a bit and surpass Granolah within a week.

Granolah can now sense ki. Meaning he can have the destruction technique or UI, because why not?

Monaito blames himself for Granolah's actions. Its not your fault Monaito! You did nothing wrong! Dont be so hard on yourself.

Whis being a creep and peeping on people lol.

Granolah's hair growing was pointless because he cuts it off soon after. Nothing changed visually. This kinda reminds me of how Moro lost his arm. Goku gave him a senzu, Moro grew it back, & then Moro broke his arm when attacking Goku. Then Moro tore his arm off & reattached his old one. There was no need for Moro to grow his arm back then tear it off. Similarly, there is no need for Granolah to have grown long hair then cut it off.

Maki still brings a smile to my face. She & Gas stand out the most out of the Heeters. Maki's personality is kinda like Zangya combined with a teasing Bulma. Gas reminds me of a Krillin/Piccolo fusion with dreadlocks. I also ship Maki x Gas cause they're short and look cute together. (please don't be siblings so I can draw them together🤞)

Granolah fights Oil & Maki. I'm not impressed. They seem like they could be defeated by Chaoitzu (he's stronger than Raditz and probably Nappa now too). Granolah's movements could be seen as UI. If it is or isn't UI, it doesn't matter. Showing off that kind of power is like Goku using Ultra Instinct during a rematch with Nam or King Chappa. Its not effective storytelling. There had to be a better way of showing Granolah's new strength than making him fight opponents that give him zero challenge.

The art is good as usual and the panel flow is nice. Toyotaro is improving at creating the illusion of motion. The environment being used in the fight was smart and a good visual. Toyo still uses a ton of panels almost every page tho. But he's still a better artist than I am.

Granolah appears to have used Hakai again. Not the explosive variant but the sand variant (yes I think there are 2 ways of using Hakai).

The "Sand Variant" that Beerus & Goku (& maybe Granolah) have used.

The "Explosive Variant" Beerus & Vegeta (& maybe Granolah) have used.

Maki thinks the "Hakai" is magic so that's interesting. I would say I'd like for the next enemy to be a magic user but, we know how Moro turned out... 😓

Maki has "ki claws" & I like the idea but it would be better if she had used it against an enemy she can defeat. It doesn't make her look useful in this fight. Gas seems confident when he is about to fight Granolah, but Elec stops him. Gas would've gotten beaten but it make ya wonder what Gas can do.

Granolah appears to be a person that is easily manipulated and persuaded. He even gave information they weren't even asking for. He'll probably be easily convinced and manipulated by Freeza/the Hedters or quickly have a truce with Goku.

The Heeters plan to go to Planet Cereal to get the Dragon Balls. As I suspected, the Cerealian Dragon Balls were created so that it would be easy for wishes to be granted. Gathering 2 Dragon Balls on a nearby planet instead of gathering 7 on New Namek or Earth. Plus these new Dragon Balls ensures no interaction between Earthlings & Granolah/the Heeters. A perfect way to write Gohan & company out of the story... *sigh* 😔😒

We learn Cerealians live for 2 centuries. How's that compare to other races in Universe 7? Freeza & King Cold apparently can live more than 200 yrs, But that may be because they are mutants. Namekians can live for like 500 yrs & its possible for them to reincarnate themselves too. So in a way, Namekians can live forever. Saiyans stay youthful & live to be in their 80's, but rapidly age when they reach their 60's or 70's. Average Earthlings appear live to be in their 80's or 90's but some are over 100 yrs old (Dr. Briefs, Panchy, & Ox King are in their 90's in GT) and others can increase their lifespan through elixers or the Paradise Herb. Just some thoughts of mine.

Maki says "If he ices Freeza..." Ha, an ice pun. Elec wants to defeat Freeza so he can control his army. Its revealed they wanna kill Granolah & that they worked with Freeza to destroy his planet & race. Well... that more than likely means they're gonna die by Granolah's hand or Freeza's. This info is also an attempt to make the reader more sympathetic for Granolah. Granolah is too bland (pun intended) so I don't feel any more sympathy than I already had for him. Elec plans to make Goku & Vegeta fight Granolah since Granolah hates Saiyans. Smart but we all kinda expected it. Not bad writing tho.

The final panel talks about fate bringing the 3 (Goku, Vegeta, & Granolah) together. Sounds like a repeat of the Broly movie.

We've had 4 chapters in this arc & not 1 panel of Freeza... If Freeza doesnt appear & do something in the next chapter then I will be disappointed in the writing. Showing Freeza here and there would give tension and build up until we get the encounter with him. We also have no idea who Oatmil is. Is he an A.I. or a person? Not that big of a deal yet, but I would like to find out soon. Either show Freeza or tell us more about Oatmil next chapter pleaae

This chapter was like oatmeal (the food not the character) without butter, brown sugar, milk, & honey or raisins. Not bad, but not very good either.

So here's my thoughts on the things that could or could not happen in this arc.

Goku vs Granolah. I don't care for the fight because the power is at a point that it doesnt make sense for enemies to get to without cheating somehow. The fight will look cool but I have no interest in it.

Vegeta vs Granolah will have Vegeta being stomped as always and Vegeta fans will make excuses & complain how it's not fair. A lot of Vegeta fans often make fun of Yamcha & Krillin for getting beat up even though those 2 bravely fight opponents leagues stronger than they are. Vegeta has gotten stomped by opponents more times than Krillin & Yamcha combined but the fans gotta deflect somehow. I don't care to hear or see the complaining again.

The interaction and dialogue between Granolah & Vegeta is going to be more interesting than their fight. But I worry because Toyo isn't the best at writing dialogue.

I have no reason to care about power growth, certain interactions, or Goku & Vegeta's training.

What I am curious about/want to see?

Monaito's well being. I want him to reunite with other Namekians. But I think he's been set up to die.

Lore about the dragon gods & Namekian lore we probably wont get.

I want Piccolo, Krillin, Gohan, & others will be involved. Piccolo because of the Namekian & wosh granting dragon lore. Gohan because his interaction with Granolah eould be interesting since Gohan is half Saiyan & views himself as an Earthling. Krillin & other Earthlings because they can bring tensions where characters like Goku & Vegeta can't. Those 2 are too strong for there to be any real tension. However Earthlings aren't all powerful so them using wits to survive is more exciting. But I doubt any of their involvement.

How long a Cerealian year is? Is it shorter than a Namekian year? How much time will pass for the Cerealian Dragon Balls to be active? How much stronger than Granolah will Goku get? Hopefully the answers aren't lazy...

Will Beerus finally fight somebody? There are 6 mortals that are near or above his power (Goku, Granolah, Vegeta, Broly, Freeza, Gohan).

Who's the villian of the next arc & what explanation is going to be given for them having power on the level of Angels? Angel tier fights don't sound interesting to me anymore. After those kinds of battles, Goku will have no challengers left.

Will Goku disappear to train or something so the story can TRY to match up with the EoZ?

Will Goten, Trunks, & Marron hit their growth spurts within 3 yrs?

Will we get spin-off manga about other characters? PLEASE!? 🙏

Also DBS moved too quickly when it comes to power. Now we're at the point that Goku & Vegeta need to stop being involved in fights for there to be any actual threat or tension. The Buu saga took place in AGE 774. After training for 4 years of peace, Goku thought SS3 & fusion was his limits as a Saiyan and he was right. Well, kinda... Goku was introduced to god ki near the end of AGE 778. Then in AGE 781, Goku masters Ultra Instinct... He mastered an Angel technique in 2 year or 2.5 yrs. That was waaaay too fast. As a result the storytelling & writing are suffering from this rushed progress. Now we're gonna have an Angel tier opponent? According to the pattern of DBS, Goku's gonna end up surpassing the Angels within 2 or 3 yrs after learning god ki. Thats not impressive for Goku, that's terrible writing. And no, Goku getting this strong so fast is not a benefit to Saiyans either. It just shows us that without god ki, Saiyans ain't all that powerful unless they're the legendary Saiyan like Broly. Saiyans didn't even have a concept of training until Goku was trained by Earthlings. Gohan, Freeza, 17, & I'm pretty sure Piccolo as well have all surpassed SS3 without the help of god ki. God ki makes Saiyans look like they have limits. With god ki, the writing is broken....

I got off topic again... Anyways that's the end of my review.

#dbs manga review #dbs manga #dragon ball #db #dragon ball super #dbs #edited out the 10 yrs of peace because the original manga never says that

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duhragonball · 3 years ago

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Chronology of Wishes

I’ve been meaning to do this for a while, and I’ve got some time to kill this afternoon, so let’s spend it by going over all the wishes in Dragon Ball.

I think I’m just gonna avoid the Super Dragon Balls for now, because that would require me to delve into the Zamasu arc, and fuck that shit.

Main DB/DBZ Continuity

9/9/749: Emperor Pilaf summons Shenron. Oolong wishes for panties to prevent Pilaf from becoming ruler of the world. [GT: This wish gives rise to the Six-Star Shadow Dragon, Oceanus Shenron.]

5/12/750: Goku summons Shenron and Upa wishes for the resurrection of his father, Bora. [GT: This wish gives rise to the Two-Star Shadow Dragon, Haze Shenron.]

5/8/753: King Piccolo summons Shenron and wishes for his youth to be restored. He then kills Shenron to prevent anyone else from using the Dragon Balls against him. [GT: This wish gives rise to the Four-Star Shadow Dragon, Nuova Shenron.]

5/9/753: Kami reactivates Shenron and allows the Dragon Balls to be used immediately. Bulma and Yamcha wish for the resurrection of all of the people killed by King Piccolo and his underlings. [GT: This wish gives rise to the Three-Star Shadow Dragon, Eis Shenron.]

11/2/762: Master Roshi and Bulma summon Shenron and wish for the resurrection of Son Goku. [GT: This wish gives rise to the Five Star Shadow Dragon, Rage Shenron.]

12/24/762: Dende summons Porunga on Namek, and wishes for the resurrection of Piccolo, the teleportation of Piccolo to Namek, and the teleportation of everyone but Frieza and Son Goku to Earth.

Upon his resurrection, Kami reactivates the Earth’s Dragon Balls and sends Mr. Popo to collect them and summon Shenron. Popo is instructed by King Kai to wish for the resurrection of everyone killed by Frieza and his soldiers. [GT: Popo’s wish gives rise to the One-Star Shadow Dragon, Eis Shenron]

5/3/763: Dende summons Porunga on Earth, and wishes for Krillin’s spirit to be relocated from the Namek system. He then wishes for Krillin’s resurrection, and Yamcha’s resurrection.

9/10/763: Dende summons Porunga on Earth, and wishes for Tien’s resurrection, then Chiaotzu’s resurrection, then for all of the Namekian people to be relocated to a new homeworld.

?/?/766?: The Pilaf Gang summons Shenron and wishes to be made younger. [This wish was established in Battle of Gods, but it is unclear when exactly it occurred. Since they appeared to be the same age as Goten and Trunks in BoG, they must have made the wish no earlier than the year of Trunks’ birth.]

5/26/767: Dende summons Shenron and Yamcha wishes for the resurrection of everyone killed by Cell. Krillin wishes for the explosive bombs to be removed from the bodies of Androids 17 and 18.

5/7/774: Bulma summons Shenron and Yamcha wishes for everyone killed that day to be brought back to life, except for the very bad ones. [GT: This wish gives rise to the Seven Star Shadow Dragon, Naturon Shenron.]

5/8/774: Dende summons Porunga on Namek, and makes three wishes at the request of Vegeta: The restoration of the destroyed Earth; the resurrection of everyone killed since the day of the 25th World Tournament, except for the very bad ones; and the restoration of Son Goku’s strength.

11/7/774: Six months after the previous wish, Goku summons Shenron and wishes for everyone’s memory of Majin Buu to be erased, with the exception of Dragon Team. [GT: The Dragon Ball GT: Perfect File book states that this wish created Eis Shenron, but this directly conflicts with the information stated in the anime itself.]

DB/DBZ movies

Age 749: Bulma summons Shenron to defeat King Gurumes. Pansy wishes for the Blood Rubies to be removed from the kingdom. [DB Movie 1: Curse of the Blood Rubies]

Age 749: Bulma (?) summons Shenron and Goku wishes for the resurrection of Android 8. [DB Movie 4: Path to Power]

Age 753: Goku summons Shenron and wishes for the resurrection of Bora. [DB Movie 3: Mystical Adventure.]

Age 761: Garlic Junior summons Shenron and wishes for immortality. [DBZ Movie 1: Dead Zone]

Age 762: Dr. Cochin summons Shenron and wishes for the ice to be melted around Dr. Wheelo’s fortress. [DBZ Movie 2: World’s Strongest.]

Krillin and Gohan summon Shenron and wish for a forest to be restored from a fire caused by Turles’ probe. [DBZ Movie 3: Tree of Might.]

Lord Slug summons Shenron and wishes for his youth to be restored. [DBZ Movie 4: Lord Slug.]

Age 774: Goten summons Shenron (maybe?) and wishes for Goku to join them in battle against Broly [DBZ Movie 10: Broly - Second Coming.]

Gohan summons Shenron and wishes for the dead to be removed from the living world. However, Shenron is unable to grant the wish. It is unknown if any other wish was granted instead. [DBZ Movie 12: Fusion Reborn.]

Age 775(?): Goku summons Shenron and wishes for Tapion to be freed from his music box. It is stated in the movie that Shenron will be used again to repair the damage in West City, but this is never shown. [DBZ Movie 13: Wrath of the Dragon.]

Dragon Ball Super, Battle of Gods, Resurrection F

8/18/778: Goku summons Shenron and wishes to hear the story of the Super Saiyan God. [DBZ Movie 14: Battle of Gods.]

?/?/779: Sorbet summons Shenron and wishes for the resurrection of Frieza. Shu wishes for one million zeni. [DBZ Movie 15: Resurrection F. Note: In Dragon Ball Super, Mai also wishes for ice cream, taking advantage of a third wish not mentioned in the film.] Bulma later speaks of using Shenron to restore North City, which Freiza destroyed, but this is never depicted.

?/?/779: Goku summons Porunga on New Namek to resurrect Piccolo after the battle with Golden Frieza. [DBS Episode 27]

?/?/779: Beerus summons Shenron and wishes for information on the Super Dragon Balls. When Shenron proves unable to grant this wish, Beerus wishes for him to go away. [DBS Episode 29]

Unknown: Kibitoshin summons Porunga and wishes to be separated into Kibito and the Supreme Kai. [DBS Episode 32]

?/?/779: Goku summons Shenron, and Gohan wishes to have Pan cured from a fever. Though Shenron still has one more wish to grant, he deactivates due to the extraordinary time spent waiting for the wish to be made. [DBS Episode 68]

?/?/780: Cheelai summons Shenron and wishes for Broly to be teleported back to Vampa. [DBS Movie 1: Broly.]

Dragon Ball GT

Age 789: Emperor Pilaf summons “Ultimate Shenron” using the Black Star Dragon Balls, and wishes for Goku to become a child again.

Baby summons “Ultimate Shenron” using the Black Star Dragon Balls and wishes for Planet Vegeta to be recreated in the Earth’s solar system.

Age 790: Goku attempts to summon Shenron to undo the damage done in the Super 17 crisis, but releases the seven Shadow Dragons instead. After defeating the Shadow Dragons, Shenron is restored. Goku’s wishes to revive those killed by the Super 17 and Shadow Dragon conflicts.

Observations

Part of the reason I wanted to do this was to get a better handle on Dragon Ball Super’s continuity. It seems like a lot of wishes get made in a very short span of time. Although, now that I count them out, Shenron only grants six wishes in a two year span:

Telling Goku about the Super Saiyan God in Movie 14.

Resurrecting Frieza for Sorbet in Movie 15.

Giving Shu 1,000,000 zeni in Movie 15.

Giving Mai ice cream in DBS Episode 19.

Going away for Beerus in DBS Episode 29.

Healing Pan’s fever in DBS Episode 68.

However, there are still some inconsistencies in this. In Res F, Shenron said he could only grant two wishes that day, while in DBS #19, he said he could do three. Either way, his wishing capacity was all used up, and yet Dragon Team was already planning to summon him again to revive Golden Frieza’s victims. (Maybe they used Porunga for that, since they had to revive Piccolo anyway?)

Beerus wished for nothing in DBS 29, but apparently that still counts as a wish, so by the time Episode 68 rollled around, Shenron still had two wishes left to grant. So this cycle of wishes would have to be one year after the events of Res F. And maybe they are. It’s hard to tell with Super.

It would be handy if they would just establish that Dende increased Shenron’s wishing powers after the Buu Saga. In the latter half of DBZ, Dende fixed it so Shenron could grant at least two wishes, and these could be used up to six months apart. At times, it’s implied that Shenron can grant up to three wishes, so long as none of them involve resurrecting more than one person. But Toei & Shueisha have never been clear on this, and the discrepancy between Movie 15 and DBS #19 make that pretty clear.

At other times, Shenron only grants one wish and leaves without mentioning a second or third. I guess you could chalk this up to Shenron having already granted another wish earlier in the year, and he’d have no reason to explain why he only has one left.

The “cooldown” period on the Earth’s Dragon Balls is supposed to be one year, but that’s never been well-observed. Toriyama whizzed it on the first go-round, because the first and second Dragon Ball hunts were eight months apart. Then the third and fourth summonings of Shenron were less than 24 hours apart, because Kami agreed to suspend the rules “just this once.” He did it again a few years later, so that Popo could wish back everyone killed by Frieza.

I guess this lends credence to what the Elder Kai said in Dragon Ball GT, about the Dragon Balls needing to “rest” for centuries between wishes. Throughout the main story, the Dragon Balls weren’t even getting the full year a lot of the time. And DBS played so fast and loose with it that I’m forced to consider that Dende augmented them without telling anyone.

I kind of like the approach Dende used in DBZ Abridged, where he told Porunga that they had six wishes, and suggested that he just grant them all up front instead of everyone having to come back and do this again 130 days later. Maybe DBS!Dende had the same idea.

Regarding the GT continuity, I think the Shadow Dragons were an interesting concept. “Use the Dragon Balls too much, and you have to fight a cool monster!” The trouble was that most of the monsters were decidedly uncool, and they really didn’t explain why some wishes created Shadow Dragons while others did not. Like... okay, Oolong’s wish for panties created a Shadow Dragon, but why that one in particular? Presumably, that wish was the first one anyone had made in hundreds of years. It was the later wishes that compounded the problem, right? Also, why didn’t the wishes made after the Cell Games create an eighth or ninth Shadow Dragon? I mean, there wasn’t enough Dragon Balls for them to each have one lodged in their head, but it seems like a missed opportunity.

One last note: It seems like there would be a decent window for Movie 13 to fit into the main canon. I once questioned how you could work the extra wishes in between the “Forget Majin Buu” wish and “Battle of Gods”, but it’s like a four-year gap. The only plot hole is that Gohan and Videl would still be in school, and that their school is inexplicably in West City. Maybe I could do something with that, though...

#dragon ball #wishes #shenron #porunga #ultimate shenron #but no super shenron i ain't got time for that noise

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trunkzbriefs · 4 years ago

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Any Son and/or Briefs family headcanons? Spicy hot takes? Truths Toriyama and Toyotaro themselves can not handle? Straight up lies?

GODDAMN SORRY this took a while cause i suck at putting thoughts together. i apologize for my obvious briefs bias i have more hcs for them than the son family despite loving them both :pensive: anyway heres some random stuff

briefs hcs:

all of the briefs are pros at non-verbal communication. i hc that saiyans have their own language (and also in my own Mind Canon they still have their fuckin tails) and a lot of it is done through tail movement/body posture/grunts/etc. etc so theyve all sort of picked that up. even bulma, who doesnt have a tail, is pretty good at getting across what she means without actually speaking. they still do speak normally but it comes in handy sometimes considering that both trunks and vegeta are prone to running out of speaking energy or getting very frustrated with words, so having another way to communicate works very well for them

vegeta is fffffffffffffffffffurry. without getting too deep into my own General Saiyan hcs (thats why i made a whole ass four subspecies!!) i think that the entirety of planet vegeta tended to be very hot aside from the part where the castle was, where the temperature would drop. meaning that saiyans working in the palace would grow thicker fur around certain parts of their body, and in the royal saiyans theyd be Especially fluffy. he kept it down on earth, but he has thick patches of fur around the bottom parts of his arms and legs. kind of like snowy boots and gloves! he also has fur that grows in on his neck like a lions mane.

future trunks is an actions sponge, vegeta is a words sponge. vegeta will pick up words VERY quickly regardless if he fully understands the meaning of it or not (completely inspired by 'THATS RIGHT BOYS... MONDO COOL' in z) and future trunks will unintentionally mimic the actions of people - around people he looks up to he might take a few small mannerisms from but this extends to copying the disposition of anyone; he's just very adaptive. this is the most obvious (and funniest) when he's around vegeta bc it really shows like. yeah damn that sure is vegeta's son

vegeta & bulla have an intimidating bastard smirk naturally. their natural smiles are pretty frightening and they have to put effort into a 'normal' one. this also extends to current trunks, his default smile is the Vegeta Bastard Smirk but he learned to have a normal smile quicker than his father and sister. future trunks has a slightly unnerving natural smile (the fact that his pupils are always drawn so fucking small makes me hc that he just has a very intimidating look of 'cat thats about to pounce on an unfortunate trapped mouse' whenever he smiles) but he learned to look normal even quicker than current trunks since he's around humans a Lot and is sort of their uh, Hope. don't want to look scary to the people who depend on you!

bulma has some fighting knowledge and mildly good ki control. vegeta taught her it as a just in case so that she'd be able to defend herself against Bigger threats if he wasn't there and also so she could raise her own ki to alert someone to her if she had to.

vegeta is extremely clean and can not stand to have things disorganized for more than like... an hour before he has to tidy everything up. every time he goes down to the lab and bulma is passed out in a pile of bolts and circuit boards it kills him inside just a little bit

future trunks has little concept of power control. since his timeline was always in danger it wasn't really an important thing for him to learn. the amount of mugs he's accidentally crushed is impressive

vegeta tends to not sound like he's asking questions when he is. he doesn't add the proper infliction to the end of his questions and just sounds flat most of the time. it's confusing to people who dont know him well.

im not even gonna lie, im a BIG fan of the chill demon panchy headcanon so i love the idea that the briefs have a Lil bit of demon in them but just dont know it ghjnkm

[banging my fists on the 'hcs that not even got could take away from me' table] future trunks has OCD

vegeta doesn't really get labels but he's bisexual & "debatably a man", bulma is bisexal & bigender transfem (sometimes shes Wamen and other times its like "gender? no"), bulla is a nonbinary lesbian, current trunks is a bisexual trans man & future bulma forgot to explain the concept of gender and sexuality to future trunks so he's a little confused on that front and his gender & sexuality are "i have literally never thought abt these concepts in my life but i think men are nice. i refuse to think about gender though" (i actually have two main hcs for future trunks which are either gay trans man or more-feminine-presenting nonbinary bisexual)

son hcs:

goku is Not as fluffy as vegeta at all, but he does have fur on certain parts of his body. namely on the back of his elbows + ankles, down his back connecting to his tail, and on his shoulders. its inherented from gine!

gohan is learning saiyan language from vegeta! vegeta acts grumpy about it but he's glad to have someone to teach. when gohan learned that most of the history had been lost he basically wished shenron for a big ol book on saiyan culture and gave it to vegeta just as an act of kindness and vegeta was like [in an angry voice but very touched] "Ok. Sit down. You're learning." by extension gohan is also teaching the rest of his family!

i will take ox king being actually non-human to my grave so like, chichi has horns and a very short ox tail! gohan and goten both have horns, but they're hidden by hair. goten's horns are bigger than gohans.

goten also has a more ox-like tail, with a little puff of fur at the end. generally, gohan looks more saiyan-like and goten looks more ox/human-like.

although he keeps up his cheery demeanor very well, goku is still haunted pretty badly by like... everything that’s happened in his life. he still has frequent nightmares about cell & buu specifically.

gohan will freak out at worse, zone out at best, if he's even tapped on the neck. it reminds him of the whole 'getting his neck snapped on namek' so that area is pretty off limits to everyone

goten gets along really well with android 17. they both have a love for nature and 17s kind of like his chill uncle, so whenever he gets too stressed out or just needs a break you can find him face down on the ground outside of 17's place on monster island.

goku is really really good at remembering completely random shit. bulma uses this to her advantage whenever she's working and has him memorize random technology stuff. a week later goku can not remember what he had for breakfast that morning but as soon as bulma asks "hey do you remember what i told you last week" hes like "oh yeah sure i have no idea what it means but [blurts out three hours worth of technical garble]"

oh boy is this a headcanon that has a lot more depth to it than just a bullet on a tumblr post, but gohan has DID!

goku, like vegeta, doesnt get labels either, and does not even Try, ask him about any of it and hes like "i dont get the gender thing but i think lots of people look nice :)" gohan is gay and like vegeta, "debatably a man", goten + chichi are both bi nonbinary, & pan is a lesbian trans woman.

both:

bulla and pan are both into music! i think theyd mess around making their own stuff w/ launchpads

i have a general hc of ki mixing or shielding, essentially, if youre close enough to someone people wont be able to tell apart your ki and you can also 'shield' someone with your ki for a small amount of time. if vegeta has his energy low, his and bulma's energy are the same. same thing with goku and chichi! goten and trunks are near impossible to tell apart, and same thing with gohan and videl.

though goten and trunks are both protective over their younger siblings, gotenks is that protectiveness times a thousand. look at bulla or pan wrong for 2 seconds and you're going to have an angry gotenks in your face asking if you have any last words. i like to think that trunks and goten fused casually a lot, especially around the time where bulla and pan were young, so its basically goten and trunks own attachment to them PLUS gotenks' attachment to them as his own person combined.

i like to pretend end of z did not happen the way it did so uub, using nimbus, travels back and forth a lot. goku isn’t the only one who teaches him how to fight as goten, gohan and trunks all think of him like a little brother and love training with him!

fuck you letters to toriyama/toyotaro hot takes:

cell, as cool of a villian as he is, definitely should have had a creepier final form. or multiple- just something that really drives in the fact that he's made up of other's dna & fuckin ABSORBS people. also his first two forms should have had a different absorbtion method other than the tail thing (not the drinking thing thats fine) it just feels. Weird. not good

it would have been far more interesting to keep the bitter attitude towards vegeta that future trunks had imo... in super trunks was going through a Lot granted but the fact tht he wasnt more confrontational to vegeta being a dick to him seemed kind of off considering his attitude in z i just.. think it would be interesting and far better if they had more of a back and forth 'family but lowkey hate each other' relationship

i dont want to rant about super so heres some super condensed takes, goku black arc specific because thats 90% of what ive seen of super:

mai is a fucking freak ass weirdo, why did they not just make another character to pair with trunks

trunks not flipping the fuck out at his timeline being erased feels... out of character. also trunks deserved the win against zamasu

future bulma did NOT need to die

trunks should have just stayed in the current timeline

please fucking let trunks and goten grow up. we SAW a version of trunks who looked 14 (history of trunks....) and the versions of goten & trunks we have r/n in super do not look 13/14 respectively what in the goddamn hell is going on in the character design department

super definitely should have taken place later down the line

supers version of bulma and videl look awful. why are they That stick like.

vegeta needs to kill frieza. just once.

fu has enough potential to be a very interesting mainline character and i am so sad he's not

i would actively enjoy a sdbh anime with more budget that isnt just a promo anime and has a plot that makes sense... i think db should have more wild spinoffs

xenoverse deserved a better story that went FULL in on the 'what if' type of timelines- like they did in raging blast which is a FUCKING GREAT GAME

straight up lies:

dragon ball z is a good series

#yes db is my hyperfix. that doesnt mean its good <3 but its mine now and i make whatever i want canon #long post #fleetinginterest

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stenka-razin · 6 years ago

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Broly thoughts

But seriously, hands down the single best looking Dragon Ball thing ever. No qualifiers, that movie was stunning.

In terms of plot and all that other stuff in a movie, very good. I just watched it so I’m digesting a lot but I did appreciate Broly as a character with an arc, rather than just a guy that screams for stupid reasons. I feel like the narrative was a little underdeveloped, though. Like the looming shadows of fathers are present, but that never really seamed to come together.

Broly’s issues with Paragus... kinda just ended by an errant Frieza blast without Broly really even realizing who was responsible. I feel like the natural ending to that arc would have been to have their conflict come to a head. Broly’s feeling towards Paragus were complicated. He did like him, but he was also undeniably harboring a lot of anger towards his father. He really didn’t get to resolve that at all, Paragus is just removed from the picture. It informed his character, but didn’t have a satisfying finish.

The King Vegeta stuff was mostly useful as exposition. A lot of interesting stuff, but certainly nothing tying him to Vegeta. Basically all his actions existed to explain why Broly was out of the picture and why Paragus was mad at his son. I feel like they could have (and maybe in the original 3 hour+ screenplay they did) work this into an arc with Vegeta reconciling his past, his heritage, and his well documented Saiyan Pride with a very immediate consequence of all that. Again, this stuff worked from an exposition standpoint, but not as a satisfying component of the narrative.

And lastly we get to what was in many ways the most dreaded content of the film; the Dragon Ball Minus stuff. DBM is either your cup of tea or it isn’t, and count me in the latter camp. But even if you like that take on Goku’s birth family... did it need to be in this film at all? Like, we know Goku got off Vegeta (the planet) before it was destroyed. Like, if we didn’t we would have this franchise. The only reason this was worth bringing up in this film specifically, would be if it tied into Broly’s story, which it doesn’t at all. Like you can go witht he DBM version of events or the Bardock Father of Goku version and it doesn’t make a difference to the events of this movie since none of the principle characters knew him until significantly later. This plotline provides a nice illusion of theme, but nothing more.

As for the less hefty stuff, all of that I loved. Having the fight with the unhinged super warrior spiral from Frieza and Bulma’s war for vanity is a wonderful premise, and delightfully Toriyama. I feel like this is sort of the vibe the original Broly was going for with his stupid backstory, but executed so much better in this movie. Cheelai & Lemo are wonderful new characters, and having the former be the one who resolves the conflict was a fantastic decision, and well done in the plot (Planting! Payoff!!!). Beerus was way better in this (as in, barely) versus Res F where he just pointlessly was on the sideline and inadvertently sucked the tension out. The bit about Ba made me all teary eyed. The montage where Broly was just beating on Frieza while Goku and Vegeta kept fucking up the dance had me in stitches, but on that...

Gogeta was cool, though I will say he was basically just a nice fanservice nod than anything else. Like when Goku and Vegeta originally fused in the Boo saga, it was a culmination their entire arc. Here they are, as the show is nearly ending, coming together to fight not only side by side, but literally as one. And it still wasn’t super well connected to the plot (Boo is... a mess narratively). But, every subsequent time it’s just been done because it is a thing that they established could be done and the fans liked it. Not really much different here, but hey, it wasn’t the real resolution so no real harm.

And the ending was great, I feel like it would have been a shame to end this narrative without setting up these characters for more adventures, so that’s nice.

But also, what the hell was with Goku calling himself Kakarot at the end????? Like, that’s so out of nowhere for the character and if they were going to eventually have Goku reclaim his Saiyan name, even sort of jokingly... fucking work up to it? “Kakarot” means very little to Goku (even with DBM retcons) and even less to Broly. Like if Goku was ever gonna call himself Kakarot it should have been during a moment with Vegeta, to whom that name actually means something. IDK, awkward moment...

But yeah, really enjoyed it over all. These are just some initial thoughts that I’m still processing. Certainly not ready to judge how it fairs in the grand scheme of Dragon Ball arcs or whatever, but it was a very good entry that proves there is still some life in the franchise. I always love Dragon Ball stories that focus more on other characters and this was a really good entry in that regard.

#dragon ball #dragon ball super broly

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freeza-emperor-of-the-universe · 6 years ago

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Dragonball Super: Broly thoughts

So on a bloody hot day to put it lightly- 46 degrees- almost 115 in US fahrenheight I finally got to see it. English dub rather then my preferred original Japanese subbed but I won tickets so seeing it for free and on a day like this in an airconditioned cinema was perfect.

Light spoilers below.

The Good

*The backstory.

Perhaps the best part of the movie we got so much lore and backstory on the Saiyans, it was fantastic. I used to think the Saiyans were basically just primitive and barbaric beings (I found it odd they had a monarchy). .But this movie depicts them as being a pretty advanced race and that not all of them are fighters. Looks like some work in technology, others as butchers etc. I really hope we get more looks into this in the future.

I really enjoyed the Dragonball Minus material, I used to be one who preferred the TV Bardock special but now I prefer this. Bardock feels like a more developed character here then in the TV special, specifically his interactions with other Saiyans and Gi-ne.

This movie also made me want more on Vegeta’s past. What happened to his mother? What happened to King Vegeta when Freeza destroyed planet Vegeta? Was he already dead prior or what?

I really enjoyed seeing kid Freeza but I wanted more. Just how did Freeza’s race come across the Saiyans. It appears it was Cold but how? More on that would be cool and more on the relationship between Freeza and Vegeta after Vegeta’s destruction up until the Saiyan arc would be amazing.

*Broly

Unlike the DBZ movies Broly here has more of a character compared to say DBZ Movie #08 where his personality in base form was non-existent and then a rampaging and cruel monster in his Legendary Super Saiyan form.

Broly here is akin to Goku at the beginning of Dragonball. He doesn’t know how to socialise, lacks manners, his father tells him what to do yet he is still is a friendly if naive guy. In one of my favourite scenes Broly tells Cheelai and Lemo how his only friend was this giant monster. It’s a really touching scene. The only real thing he has in common with DBZ Broly is when he gets angry, he loses control.

I think the movie opens up to Broly being a regular character in the future of Dragonball, he has of opportunities to learn and grow and I’m really looking forward to seeing that and what they do with him in the future.

Even Paragus felt more developed in this movie. Unlike DBZ Movie #08, you can tell he really loves his son yet he still wants to use him as an instrument for his revenge, sadly.

*Freeza

I am a big Freeza fan, he’s my favourite villain of the show and I think DBS Broly did a good job with him. From seeing him as a kid, to his interactions with his minions, Paragus and Goku in the present, they’re just so much fun. His wish has been a source of controversy, but I actually didn’t mind it and it paralleled with Bulma nicely. This movie also has me excited for his future and personally I do think they should introduce another member of his race. PM if you want spoilers regarding this. Also, his minion Berryblue seemed really interesting to me. We’ve never seen Freeza with a female minion before if I remember right and his relationship with her seemed particularly intriguing. She is seen in the opening flashback with him as a child as well as in the present. Headcanon she was his nanny! Hope we get more of her in the future.

*Cheelai and Lemo

I thought these two were a lot of fun and their dynamic with Broly was great. Hope to see more of them in the future.

*The backgrounds

The backdrops for the movie were just gorgeous, from Planet Vegeta, to especially Planet Vampa. They gave the movie an appropriate level of atmosphere.

*The future

I think this movie sets up a lot for the future of the series. Freeza’s future ambitions and Broly’s character for example. I’m REALLY excited so see what Toriyama and Toei come up with next.

The Bad

Nothing was really bad in the movie overall but...

*The fights

Honestly, I found the fights with Broly to be boring and uninspired. Apart from the animation budget clearly going the most to these parts and vastly better than anything the TV series cinematography, these just felt nothing special. Just your generic run of the mill Dragonball fights. I mean it was cool to finally see Vegeta as a Super Saiyan God in animated form though.

*The character designs/animation

I wasn’t the biggest fan of how the characters looked in this film say compared to Battle of Gods and Resurrection F. They felt much more detailed in those films compared to here, where they looked more... not sure how to put it... cartoony here. Some characters looked fine- Freeza, Broly, Paragus, Cheelai and Lemo while Goku, Vegeta and Beerus etc looked off to me. There was some derpy looking animation at times. Thankfully in the fight scenes the characters looked much better and as mentioned this is where likely the majority of the budget went

*Power scaling

A big problem with modern Dragonball nowadays IMO is that Goku and Vegeta have God-level strength, and it’s hard for them to have villains who should be convincingly at this level or even stronger for them to face. I can JUST buy Freeza training for four months and catching up to their levels because he was incredibly powerful to begin with, I but Broly was harder to believe. It’s like the Artificial Humans/Androids... A human scientist is somehow able to make machines and add robotic devices to humans and make them stronger than Freeza.

Like Broly is not even a Super Saiyan yet he is able to fight Goku in this Pseudo-Oozaru/Great Ape HumanState when Goku is Super Saiyan Blue. As a Super Saiyan, even though he is outclassed, he is still able to put up a fight of sorts against SSJ Blue Gogeta. It just really sucked me out of the experience.

Again beings from other universes being stronger or at Goku and Vegeta’s level, I find acceptable. Villains from the ancient past like Boo/Buu and Moro, I can buy. But this just didn’t work for me.

*The music

The music isn’t bad but it didn’t really stand out too much. I did smile when Cha-La Head-Cha Head played when child Goku arrived on Earth. I also liked Freeza’s theme, however but I wish in the opening flashback it was used more shall we say epically to really capture the intensity of Freeza and Cold landing and the Saiyans mistrust of them. Broly’s theme wasn’t bad and I will say the music playing when Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta in combination with the scene itself did give me goosebumps. I was disappointed that Blizzard wasn’t used in the actual movie and left to the end credits as well.

The what the?

*The Editing

Wasn’t the biggest fan of the editing- mostly in the beginning backstory parts. It cut too quickly into new scenes- especially cutting from Broly and Paragus on Vampa to suddenly three years later with Bardock. I felt that could have been done better.

*What the?

Three major moments had me scratching my head. Vegeta is fighting Broly and then Goku abruptly steps in and Vegeta just disappears for a good amount of time. We don’t even see him complain about Goku jumping in out of the blue or anything. Then when Goku is getting beat up and is talking to Piccolo telephatically, Vegeta still doesn’t step in nor do we see his reactions. After the Boo/Buu arc this just felt strange.

Cheelai and Lemo don’t know what the Dragonballs are... yet then later on they suddenly do. I get that they presumably forced Kikono to tell them but how or why would they just think to do that was really jarring. I mean yeah I know Cheelai says in one part along the lines of ‘I WISH we could do some/thing’ but still. It just came up out or nowhere.

Finally Cheelai takes forever to make her wish. I get that they needed a climatic moment but it takes Cheelai minutes to make her wish to save Broly, even after knowing all she has to do is simply tell Shenlong/Shenron her wish.

Overall

Dragonball Super: Broly is an entertaining Dragonball movie with some great characters, plotting and solid animation. It’s let down by the uninspired fighting scenes that are your run of the mill generic Dragonball fights and some bizarre what the moments but sets up some interesting threads for the future of the franchise.

7/10

#dragonball super broly #dragon ball super broly #spoilerish

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suncannon · 6 years ago

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Thoughts On Dragonball Z and How People Spend Their Time

So, I’m not going to pretend that I’m a Dragonball Expert, but I’ve followed and enjoyed the series for a significant portion of my life. I’ve also, like I’m sure many people who used to be teenage boys did, spent a lot of time thinking about that world and the people in it.

There is an opinion I’ve seen voiced in many ways and in many places that says something along the lines of “It’s just a show/game/movie/whatever, just consume it and have fun, why are you thinking about it so much.” To that, I’ve taken an idea from Lindsay Ellis to heart. It goes something along the lines of “These properties make ungodly amounts of money, and influence the thinking of countless people. To pretend that they aren’t worth thinking about seriously because they’re silly/made for children is shortsighted, and ignores what we can learn from those things”. She was talking about the Michael Bay Transformers movies at the time, but that kind of thinking can be applied to most things.

This is a long-winded way to say that I have Thoughts about Dragonball, and the way both the narrative and the characters within it discuss things like hard work, training, and the decision of how to spend your time.

I’ve always liked the human characters in Dragonball more than the others. Don’t get me wrong, I like Goku as much as the next guy, and I, like many others, went through a phase where I realized that Vegeta is both Incredibly Cool, and also A Pretty Good Dad. But it was always the human characters(Krillin, Yamcha, and to a lesser extent the half-human Gohan I suppose) that I really identified with. I guess it’s because I am a human? But I think even then, I identified with the feeling of other people outpacing me, getting better at things while I’m just trying to catch up.

Krillin and Yamcha are frequent fandom punching bags. Yamcha more than Krillin, and for good reason. Yamcha is kind of a dirtbag, so he deserves most of what he gets. But a lot of what I see when I see people talking about the human characters of Dragonball, is that they aren’t worthy of fandom because they’re weaker than the Saiyans, and that’s why they’re lame. I don’t agree with that line of thinking.

Sure, the human characters in Dragonball are probably always going to be weaker than the Saiyans, because Saiyans Cheat At Kung Fu Magic. They, as a species, are basically designed to always win in dramatic ways, and it’s hard to impossible for a human to catch up with that. They’re also the Designated Protagonists, so they always have to be the strongest. But the reasons I like the human characters aren’t because they’re good fighters, but because they’re more interesting characters, and their existence says interesting things about the setting.

Okay, before we keep going, I feel like it’ll be helpful to state what my sort of thesis is. Dragonball is a setting where hard work and determination can allow a person to transcend their normal limits, and become a being on the level of gods. But in order to attain that level of power, a person has to let everything else in their life fall away, and devote themselves solely to Getting Better At Punchwizarding. Saiyans have a natural disposition towards this singleminded focus, but Goku in particular, because he’s A Moron(and, like, brain damaged, I guess? Yikes), will always be best at this. The fact that other characters in the show, from Vegeta to Gohan down to Krillin and Yamcha, don’t reach that level isn’t an indictment of their skill or dedication, but a sign that they value other things in their lives. This makes me like those characters more, but that contrast wouldn’t exist without Goku doing what he does.

So, lets talk about Yamcha. Yamcha is a dingus. He dumped Bulma because he’s an idiot, and then effed off to use his Punchwizardry to become a famous baseball player. And while he’s an unenviable person(in a lot of ways, he has manufactured his own misery), he is a good example of what I’m talking about.

During Original Dragonball, Yamcha was a respectable martial artist. He wasn’t as good as the Designated Protagonist, but he could hold his own, and was likely one of the strongest humans on the planet by the end of that series.

Then, Dragonball Z happened. Raditz was a sign that things were climbing to a new level of power, and Yamcha managed to hang for a little while. He trained with the other Z Fighters for a while, preparing for the fight with Vegeta and Nappa. He also got immediately smoked my the Saibamen, getting brutally killed.

It’s around this point that I feel like Yamcha begins seeing the writing on the wall. He trains with King Kai alongside the others, and by the end of the Frieza saga he’s respectable, but not exemplary. Once the Android saga starts, and he challenges Android 20, he also immediately gets smoked, this time literally, with a massive hole blown in his chest.

After this point, he is basically not a factor in any of the major battles of the series. He sits out most, if not all, major battles in the rest of the series, and during the timeskip between Cell and Buu, has completely stopped his training. He coasts by on his residual physical skill to make money. And while there’s something to be said for him abandoning the fight to protect Earth, to some extent, I get it? Like, he saw what was coming. Goku is doing sit-ups in 1000x Earth’s gravity or some nonsense, and lives for nothing but the fight. That was never Yamcha’s goal, so he got out while the getting was good. While he regrets this decision by the time Dragonball Super is going on, I understand the motivation.

So, lets take a quick detour to talk about Krillin. He’s probably my favorite character in the series. He looks like a weird gremlin and literally doesn’t have a nose. He’s great and perfect. A lot of his story is similar to Yamcha’s so we won’t have to talk about him long.

Krillin managed to avoid most of the pitfalls that Yamcha blunders into, but based on the person he is, he was always going to. Yamcha was a bandit who stumbled into World Shaking Nonsense, so his lack of dedication to back-breaking training is expected. Krillin was a monk who devoted himself to training when he was in Original Dragonball, and he stuck with that training for much longer. Accordingly, he stays relevant for much longer. By the time of the fight with the Saiyans, he survives when most of the others don’t, and he manages to hang during the fighting on Namek. Hell, his chops are still decent by the time of the Android saga, and he holds his own when he needs to.

But he still makes the cardinal sin when it comes to Keeping Up With Goku: he cares about things besides training. He gets married, has a kid, settles down. Lets his hair grow back. Becomes a good dad and has a wife who loves him. He still does some training to keep himself in fighting trim, but by the time of the Buu saga, he’s basically no one of consequence. And that bites him in the ass when he gets taken out basically immediately.

I find this arc incredibly relatable. Who among us hasn’t devoted their lives to protecting Earth, but then fallen in love with an incredibly cool android woman and had a precocious kid, and then decided to skip leg day once or twice? Krillin manages to avoid falling as far as Yamcha did because Android 18 is another Z Fighter, and I’m sure they keep each other in shape. But they’re retired by the time of the Buu saga.

However, in Super, you can see how far a human can go when sufficiently motivated. Krillin makes it all the way to the Tournament of Power, while Yamcha is looking like a scruffy piece of trash, sad that all of his friends are going off and fighting without him. Like, of course they are, Yamcha. You haven’t lifted a weight in longer than Goten has been alive. Damn, even Master Roshi hit the gym when the chips were down, and he busts out some OG Dragonball moves. You see him in Resurrection of F, and the Tournament? Damn.

Y’know, I think I might’ve been wrong before. I said Krillin was my favorite character, but really, I think it has to be Gohan. He’s just the best.

So, a lot of the impetus of writing this piece has been because I’ve been vicariously reliving Dragonball Z through the All Systems Goku podcast. Seeing the series through fresh eyes has been neat, and it’s made me think about a lot of this for the first time in a long time.

There’s a part at the beginning of the Buu saga where Vegeta drags Gohan for his decline in power level, and while I understand that frustration from Angry Saiyan Dad, like, I get it. Even by the time of Dragonball Super, Gohan has not, and likely will not, develop into the fighter he Could Have Been. But like, that’s fine. Vegeta didn’t, either.

So, to wrap this up and not write another thousand words, lets talk about the Saiyans as a group.

Goku is a Committed Idiot, who will always be the best at fighting because it’s all he cares about. Because of this, he is a negligent father and husband, and also not a very good person or friend.

Vegeta can hang on Goku’s level because he’s a Saiyan and has a very understanding wife that will build him weird gravity chambers, but he also takes an active role in parenting his children, and actually wants to be present at the birth of his daughter instead of going to train with an angel. Like, for real. Goku tries to convince Vegeta to miss the birth of his daughter to go train, because Goku missed the birth of Goten because he was dead, so it’s fine. Whis ends up making it a non-issue by using Angel Magic to just poof the baby out of Bulma, which is kind of horrifying, but Bulma was pretty alright with missing those arduous hours and having the work just done for her.

Vegeta compromises his training by being a person with a life, and watching Goku keep pulling ahead of him was the impetus for the Majin Vegeta stuff. He had his mid life crisis, but realized what he was doing, and I guess eventually got over it. He knows he’s not as strong as Goku, but he takes his son to Disneyland sometimes and he’s mostly cool with it.

Gohan could have been the greatest martial artist the Earth has ever produced. When he beat Cell, he was far and away the most powerful being that had ever set foot on the planet. But between then and the Buu saga, he just started to care about other things. He was a teenager, and went to school, made friends, fell in love. Between then and Super he got married, had a kid. People talk like they’re disappointed that Gohan has “gotten lame”, especially after the glimpse of him we get in Future Trunk’s Bad Future. But they don’t get it.

Gohan won. That’s his happy ending. He can still hang with his dad and Vegeta; he’s probably the third strongest person on the planet. Piccolo might have him beat some days, but probably not. And he also has a wife and daughter and a life outside of lifting weights and screaming. That’s what Future Trunks would’ve wanted for him.

At the end of the day, the Earth needs someone like Goku, who is willing to forsake everything else and keep doing push-ups until he can punch out God. It’s a good thing that he relishes the opportunity, because a more self-aware person would probably be pissed that the weight of the world/galaxy/universe/Creation keeps getting put on his shoulders.

But to say that other characters are less interesting, or somehow “bad” because they don’t have that single-minded devotion to Punchwizardry is foolish, because that dichotomy and contrast between Goku and everyone else in his life is what gives texture and weight to the choices the characters make. Krillin sees Goku punching out deities and probably feels bad that he can’t help. But his family makes him happy, and that’s worthwhile, too. It’s what makes the fighting worth doing.

Okay, so that’s it. Feels good to get these thoughts out of my head. Been percolating them for a while. Not gonna do any more passes on this for editing because I’ve already been writing this for like an hour and I wanna be done. Happy to hear thoughts or comments. Be excellent to each other.

#Dragonball #Dragonball Z #Dragonball Super #writing #on my bullshit

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saiyanhairvibes · 3 years ago

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Incoming Dragon Ball Fan Rant!

(There may be spoilers for the current story arc in the manga, so if you don't want spoilers, scroll on by...)

Sometimes, I like to read those articles put out by random sources like Comic Book Resources, Screen rant etc. I especially like the Dragon Ball ones...mostly to shake my head at them LOL 😅

I read one that talked about Super Saiyan 4 from GT, and how it can be compared to the godly states that Goku & Vegeta achieve in Super. As it's still not 100% confirmed (at least not in my mind) if SS4 is still canon or not, it would be nice to know how it compares to Blue, or Ultra Instinct/Ego. In the article, the writer talked about how Goku was able to break the magic of the Black Star Dragon Balls to become his adult form again when he achieves SS4. And this ability to bypass wish magic is their reasoning for saying SS4 is STRONGER than the levels in Super... Interesting...

Now granted, I have actually said that exact same thing for YEARS about SS4 being crazy strong because Goku is able to break wish magic, HOWEVER...there is some new info in the latest story arc of Super.

In the Granolah The Survivor arc, we learn there are lots of Namekians all over the universe, and that Granolah's home planet had some Namekians, and they made two lower grade Dragon Balls. They are obviously much weaker than Earth's or Namek's. They outright state this. But by bending some rules, namely shortening Granolah's life span, he is able to make a wish that makes him stronger than anyone in the universe at the time. Then Gas of the Heeters has the same thing done to him, which effectively makes him even stronger than Granolah.

My point is this, even though the two Dragon Balls are much weaker than the others we've seen, we can see that Goku AND Vegeta are still able to fight against Granolah and Gas. Although they start out outclassed, eventually we can see that, typical for Saiyans, they keep rising to be able to fight on par with them. This goes to show that Goku & Vegeta can in fact rise above a Dragon Ball wish, although this wouldn't be as impressive as when Goku goes SS4, in my mind it definitely hints at it.

Remember, Toyotarou is well aware of all this DBGT lore stuff. His original work was a fan manga that expanded on GT. So believe me, he knows all this stuff already lol! It's going to be really exciting to see how he works in more ideas from GT's canon, as we fill in the holes and decide what's canon and what's not.

Maybe I should make a post about how I think GT could still be canon? (As divisive as GT can be to the fan base lol 😅 ...I actually liked a fair bit of GT, especially the design for SS4. Some things I could have gone without, but it was still a fun ride haha)

Rant over.

#dragon ball #dragon ball super #dragon ball gt #fandom

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tigerlover16-uk · 7 years ago

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What's your take on Jiren's backstory? I don't get the hate, but I also just find it average. This fanbase has a massive tendency of judging before anything happens, too. It's entirely possible for Jiren to get more characterization coming up. This is his and Goku's fight, not just Goku's fight alone.

Well...

I… like the idea of it, but I wish we’d seen more. I agree that it’s cliché, but I don’t really think that’s the problem. Clichés aren’t bad, it’s just how they’re used, and a lot of things become clichés specifically because they work. And when you’re dealing with characters that are half way between being super sentai parody’s, and sentai inspired heroes played straight, of course you’re going to get some cliché elements and backstories. I don’t really know what people were expecting Jiren’s backstory to be, honestly?

The backstory certainly explains a lot about Jiren actions, and adds some depth to him, which he DESPERATELY needed after being a blank slate for too long.

I hear a lot of people dismissing it with “Well Vegeta and Goku had it worse! The entire saiyan race got wiped out”. Which, I don’t think is entirely fair. Because one, neither characters were really traumatised by that. Goku never knew about the saiyans until he was older, and he just assumed his whole family must have been vicious pirates like Raditz, so Planet Vegeta’s destruction was hardly a tragedy for him (Moreso for his parents). And Vegeta outright admitted he didn’t care about his father or his people’s deaths that much, he just hated being a subject to Frieza when he thought he deserved to be top dog. Despite what anime filler, dub edits and Vegeta’s fanboy’s would have you believe, Vegeta was treated fairly well as a prestigious fighter of the Frieza force.

His backstory isn’t the thing that makes Vegeta a sympathetic or tragic character, that came with his character development and stuff that happened to him as the story went along. Heck, even when the Bardock special decided to show Vegeta getting word of Planet Vegeta’s destruction, he had an almost non-reaction to it (And yes that’s not the manga so not canon, but it’s the only media to ever show him getting the news of his planets destruction… besides some contradictory filler, I think). So, neither character was actually effected by the tragedy in their pasts like Jiren was to his, so they’re not exactly equivalent.

Secondly, so what if more people died in Vegeta and Goku’s backstory, and if other characters in the series supposedly had it worse. You don’t go around telling people who lost family in 9/11 to suck it up and move on because there have been worse tragedies throughout human history, which some people are still dealing with the fallout of. So I don’t think it’s entirely fair to write Jiren’s trauma and experiences off like that.

Heck, I don’t even know how much this reveal was intended to elicit sympathy for the character, it feels more like it’s just an explanation for why Jiren is the way he is, and possibly give a justification of why he didn’t just go around eliminating everyone from the start. But I think this explains that theory better than I could:

https://duhragonball.tumblr.com/post/170764786192/dbs-episode-127

The issue I do have with the backstory though… it kinda feels a tad, too little too late. I mean, I don’t think a lot of people will really argue with me that Jiren’s kind of a flat character personality wise. He’s got an okay design, but mostly he just stands around scowling and having small moments to show off his power. The build up to him and Goku’s first fight was great, and it was an epic showdown where Jiren was an intimidating threat. I actually did find him okay even if he didn’t have much character to him at that point…

But since then we’ve gotten so little insight into his character over a prolonged period of time, with a lot of what we have gotten making him come off as real jerkish. All the while, we’ve gotten to enjoy seeing a lot of more lively and fun characters battling it out with our heroes (And Frieza), that Jiren just doesn’t stand out very much by comparison.

Heck, TOPPO felt like he had so much more going for him and with more substantial, though still mostly subtle, build up to his big moment, to the point that he feels like he should have been the final boss of this tournament instead.

Toppo was amusing, sympathetic, and his more jerkish moments towards the U7 character felt at least understandable when you remember he’s under the impression that Goku, and thus likely his friends by association, is evil and he’s under a ton of stress from this tournament. As awesome as his ascension to God of Destruction levels was, there was also a sense of tragedy to it as we saw him pass the despair event horizon and abandon his ideals to get there. There was a lot more substance to Toppo’s arc.

By comparison, all we knew about Jiren until the latest episode was that he’s ridiculously strong, he can’t be that bad a guy because he is a superhero, he doesn’t talk a lot and likes to fight, and that he wanted the super dragon balls for some reason. He was sold on power and presence, and that was fine at first, but after all this time with so little being done with his character other than toying with Vegeta and Goku to ensure the final fights don’t end too quickly, and his personality still being so flat… the guy just comes off as boring.

I’m glad we do have a backstory now, because at least there’s SOMETHING to his character now. And I’ll admit, I did get the feeling that I wanted to see his story more in depth and see where it might go from here… but, the whole flashback was just way too brief.

I really think they should have spent more of the episode recounting the events of that backstory, if not doing a whole episode flashback with dialogue included. Show us what Jiren’s life was like before his village was massacred. Give us a little bit of his parents personalities and what Jiren’s home life was like. Show us some of the villagers, give faces to the people who were slaughtered. And then give Jiren’s master some actual character and show us more of his training and companions.

I’m not saying the writers needed to do a whole arc about it, but even just a few additions and some dialogue between Jiren and characters shown, and more insight into kid Jiren’s mindset over the course of those events, would have gone SUCH a long way to fleshing him out more and really selling the backstory.

The backstory isn’t bad. It’s just that it took us so long to get here, and it was so underplayed, that it feels almost throw away at this point. Like, I hope you’re right and we do get to see Jiren’s character fleshed out and developed some more in the next few episodes, but with so few episodes left I really don’t feel like they could do that much with his character now.

I think a lot of this could be improved upon if we got a History of Trunks style special dedicated to fleshing out Jiren’s life story, but as it currently stands it feels like there was just a lot of wasted potential with Jiren’s character.

I think that’s why a lot of people are so frustrated by it. Between all the interesting, quirky and better designed characters we’ve gotten in this saga, Jiren as the final boss of the tournament, and with Super as a whole now since it’s ending and we don’t know when we’re getting a sequel, just kind of feels like a let down.

If we’d gotten this backstory a bit earlier, and he had a bit more to his personality (And the fight so far executed a bit better), then his character might have turned out better. But, right now I’m just not invested with him outside of seeing how well animated and spectacular the final fight with him and Goku might turn out to be, and feeling wistful that Toppo went out so quickly.

#dragon ball super #jiren #dbs

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xb-squaredx · 7 years ago

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Dragon Ball Super Fans Deserve Better

Akira Toriyama’s Dragon Ball series is one of the most influential, beloved and important pieces of popular culture ever made. The manga, and the anime that followed, formed the foundation of the modern shonen action show as we know it and inspired countless authors that followed in Toriyama’s footsteps. And after nearly 20 years, Akira Toriyama returned to the Dragon Ball series with a new anime continuation, Dragon Ball Super. Continuing the adventure of Son Goku and his many allies, it’s safe to say that Super is a pretty big deal…but in reality, it’s been nothing but a disappointment.

Right off the bat, I want to say that, taken by itself Dragon Ball Super is not a bad show. People love to harp on its animation and writing, and while there are legitimate flaws found within the show itself, the fact is that many of these issues were also in the original series. The pacing, the endless powerups, deux ex machinas aplenty…they can be found multiple times throughout the series. Those are not something I take particular issues with, but rather…my problem is that Dragon Ball Super, for all of the time that’s passed between the ending of Z, is still having the same problems. It is a continuation that is, quite literally, more of the same. Super feels as if it started airing a week after the finale of Dragon Ball Z, and in some respects I can applaud Toriyama and Toei Animation for being consistent…but with such a large gap in time between the series, the stagnation on display is nothing short of maddening.

“Stagnant” is really the word I would use to describe Dragon Ball Super. It takes no meaningful steps forward, and is content to continue pulling from the same bag of tricks Toriyama pioneered two decades ago. And in those two decades, the manga/anime industry has seen some major steps forward, and at this point, I think it’s fair to expect more out of the genre. As influential as Dragon Ball was, it has been surpassed in many ways by a variety of series. From world building, to writing, to characterization, Dragon Ball has been blown out of the water by the likes of Eiichiro Oda, Masahashi Kishimoto, Tite Kubo, Kohei Horikoshi, ONE, Yoshihiro Togashi and so many more.

Now, to be fair…Toriyama was a pioneer who never really intended to get into action-heavy stories. He’s a comedy writer, first-and-foremost, as the likes of Dr. Slump and his various other one-offs and side-stories can attest to. Dragon Ball started as a parody of Journey to the West, as well. It’s no secret that Toriyama often wrote by the seat of his pants, and really it’s kind of incredible that things often ended with all plot threads tied up neatly in the end. Sure, he forgot Launch existed, and it’s often said that Goku getting blond hair for his Super Saiyan form was to save on inking, but Toriyama and Dragon Ball on the whole gets a LOT of slack because of its pioneer status. It stands to reason that later series would go on to avoid a lot of the mistakes Dragon Ball made because they had a chance to learn from those mistakes. So it’s all the more frustrating to see that Dragon Ball Super hasn’t learned all that much.

All those flaws from before remain; redundant transformations and power ups, glacial pacing, plot holes you can drive a truck through—they’re back and just as annoying. Any hope of flaws being acknowledged and avoided was crushed when the series BEGINS with Goku acquiring another power up. From there, it’s business as usual. Goku is the strongest around until a NEW threat appears, where upon he must then train and become even stronger than before, and all’s well that ends well. Any REAL breaks to the status quo are usually remedied with the Dragon Balls and if THOSE fail, there are new, STRONGER Super Dragon Balls to do that. And then the next arc begins anew and the process repeats. While the Goku Black arc IS an admitted step up from the norm, the story itself is one of the most clichéd fanfic-level scenarios I can think of. I don’t expect Dragon Ball to be Shakespeare, but when something like Naruto or BLEACH is putting more effort into their narratives and characters (well, sometimes), you’re doing something wrong.

But writing was never the series’ strong suit. While I’d love for the writing of the series to be better, if it could deliver on the action I’d overlook it. However, Super is left in the dust by more modern action shows, and I find myself outright bored by a lot of the battles in Super more often than not. A lot of this comes from a lack of stakes or tension. Considering this takes place before the epilogue at the end of the Majin Buu arc of the original series, we can be assured that events aren’t going to directly contradict it. Frieza destroyed the Earth? Well of course Whis is going to undo that. Piccolo died? They don’t even wait for his body to get cold before shouting “We can just bring him back later with the Dragon Balls!” We can be assured that no matter what, Goku will win, or events will bend over backwards to get rid of the danger if he somehow can’t. It helps that he’s pals with SEVERAL deities by now.

For a while now, Dragon Ball confused scale for excitement. The power scaling went out of control years before Dragon Ball finished proper, and after a certain point, it was less about a fighter’s strategy or technique and more about pure force. And then the next fighter had another zero attached to their power level. Fundamentally speaking, just how different was Frieza from Cell or Majin Buu? They all still did the same things: they flew, they punched and kicked, and then shot an energy blast of varying colors. Sure, Frieza can survive in a vacuum, Cell could regenerate and use a variety of skills gained from having fighter’s DNA in him, and Buu could turn you into candy…but now think about how they’re beaten. Pure force. For all their formidable abilities, it’s nothing that can’t be beaten by punching harder than before or shooting off a bigger energy blast. On that same note, what’s so different about Super Saiyan 1, to 2, to 3, aside from looks? They just make the character in question “stronger.” We’re now at the point in Super where Goku is using Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaioken X 20, and no that is NOT a joke. With his freshly unveiled (as of the time of writing) “Ultra Instinct” power, these power up amalgams are going to be even worse mouthfuls soon enough. Fights are decided not by tactics or any real skill, but by moving goalposts.

(That’s a lotta goalposts)

Compare this to the ninja trickery regularly employed in Naruto (at the start, anyway) or the various odd Nen techniques in Hunter X Hunter. No two fights are ever solved the same way and legitimate tension is formed when characters have to figure out how to advance past this next obstacle. And with One Piece’s author being a big Toriyama fanboy, it’s especially notable that One Piece is probably the best at learning from Dragon Ball’s mistakes. Luffy’s various Gear techniques are power ups, yes, and are even numbered, but unlike the Super Saiyan forms, there’s not as much of a clear hierarchy. Third Gear IS technically more powerful than Second Gear, but it’s also FAR slower and has nasty recoil, so Luffy has to pick the best form for the current situation. Each form has drawbacks AND strengths, and there’s no point where one technique is eclipsed and replaced by another. Things are constantly kept interesting with each fighter displaying their own unique power, weapons, and fighting styles. But fights don’t even require that to be compelling; as long as there is emotional weight, that can carry you far. Dragon Ball Super could get by just as well with Goku and the current villain of the week punching each other over and over, as long as the fight itself had some kind of emotional hook.

Refer to Naruto and compare the fights between the two main rivals, Naruto and Sasuke. The series spends a LONG time building up the tension and inevitable fight between the two and when the tension is at its peak, the fight explodes off the page (or screen). The fights become more than just fists flying; the fights tell us the stories of the characters and their struggles up until that point. The loneliness Naruto felt in life and the connection he felt with Sasuke is threatened when he breaks from the Leaf Village. The fight is then more than just two rivals trying to come out on top: Naruto wants his friend back, and Sasuke wants so desperately to prove he’s gotten strong enough to avenge his clan, all the while tempted to kill Naruto in order to gain forbidden power. These fights have deeper meaning to each other, in addition to eye-catching art and choreography. The audience engagement is magnified here, and it’s all done without either fighter having the power to destroy multiple planets in one shot.

So far in Super, with the exception of the two movie-adaptations and the Goku Black arc, it’s been a collection of tournament arcs. Sure, there are high stakes in both tournaments, but by and large the fights in these things pit the main cast against a plethora of forgettable, disposable characters that barely get any development, all of course building up to Goku’s fight with his new rival of the month, be it Hit or later Jiren. Most of these fights lack punch, and the rivalries themselves feel rather shallow. Consider when Goku finally fought Frieza. Frieza slaughtered countless planets in his galactic conquest, and just got done killing most of Goku’s friends when he arrives to fight. Vegeta swallows his pride and asks for Goku to defeat Frieza as retribution for exterminating his people, and then Frieza toys with Krillin, Goku’s best friend, before killing him. Just because he can. There’s weight to Goku’s showdown with him. Now compare that to Hit or Jiren.

(This is the extent of their interaction prior to fighting. Two words.)

People that Goku has no prior contact with before their fight, they exist to give Goku someone to punch. His motivation is to fight them….just to fight, just to become stronger. They aren’t villains, and while losing the tournament has certain consequences, the overall tones of the arcs are still fairly light-hearted and losses don’t feel all that monumental. Tournament arcs are usually considered the highlight of certain shonen series, but here it’s Dragon Ball at its most dull.

Yet again, compare a more recent show. My Hero Academia’s Sports Festival is, after a point, a tournament arc meant to showcase the personalities and powers of not only the main cast, but a variety of secondary characters, some of which go on to be more important later on. The pacing stands out to me especially, with many matches over in an instant. In the anime, one episode is dedicated to showcasing a large amount of fights at once, while the fights that have more weight to them are usually given an entire episode. My Hero Academia knows where focus is most required, and it results in an arc filled with action with very little fluff. The tone is mostly light-hearted, as it IS a school-event after all, but there are still several fights with more emotional stakes behind them. Midoriya and Todoroki’s conflicting ideologies on what it means to be “number one” come to a head in their fight as Midoriya tries to help Todoroki come to terms with his family issues, while Uraraka’s fight with Bakugo is a lesson in how grit and determination doesn’t always win the day.

It’s an arc wherein there are no inherent stakes, but every victory is still important and every loss is absolutely crushing for the cast. Compare how the losses Uraraka and Yaoyorozu affect them and instill a desire to improve to Tien being knocked out of the Tournament of Power. No one cares. While the Universe Survival Arc DOES have some standout moments to allow certain characters to get a bit more limelight, it’s remarkably unfocused and ultimately it’s all going to come down to Goku vs. Jiren, more likely than not. Whereas My Hero Academia is bold enough to NOT have its main protagonist win the tournament, or even get to the final round, and was a lot more even in its focus of the cast.

That’s not to say that Dragon Ball Super doesn’t have some good moments. I’ve been dancing around it, but the Goku Black arc felt like a step in the right direction. It had better established emotional stakes and spent time developing its main villain, with a climax that felt quite a bit more earned than arcs before or after it. On top of that, there are a number of one-off episodes that are often either hilarious, or heartwarming in their own way. There are some fighters introduced in the tournament arcs that DO make for some interesting fights, and it is clear that Toei Animation IS trying. But with over 111 episodes under its belt at the time of writing, I feel that’s come too little too late. At least for me.

It having so many episodes is a testament to the fact that, despite what I think, there are clearly people out there that like what they see. And I understand that. I grew up on Dragon Ball Z, same as any ‘90s kid. My friends and I would shout “Kamehameha!” at each other in the playground. We’d buy up the games, rent the movies, and practice the Fusion Dance. I’m sure a large portion of Super’s fanbase grew up on Dragon Ball and carry a great deal of nostalgia for it, and in a lot of ways, Super scratches that itch for more. It can make fans “feel like a kid again!” I can understand the idea of “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” The fear that any sort of “update” or “change” from the original can shatter that which fans held so dear. But with so much time in-between the series, and so many glaring flaws that could be addressed, I’m reminded of a similar revival that happened earlier in 2017.

Samurai Jack was a Cartoon Network original show with plenty of flashy action and stylish animation. It was rather popular for a time, running for four seasons. A show in which Jack traveled the word, helping people, making friends and enemies, all with the goal of defeating the villain Aku and returning to his own time, preventing the bad future Aku had created. It ended before it ever got a true conclusion and for 13 years fans were left wondering what an ending would be like. And then we got it. A ten episode “miniseries” of sorts, this fifth season gave a definitive end to Jack’s tale and I can’t help but compare this miniseries to Super as a whole. For the issues I might have with the final ten episodes of Samurai Jack, I respect it as a series far more than Super. Genndy Tartakovsky and Cartoon Network realized after 13 years, that the series would have to update a few things and step up their game. It could not afford to fall behind all that had happened in that gap in time.

They realized their audience had grown up, and the show matured as well. Not in the “bloody, sexy and vulgar” way, but it did have noticeably darker themes in its narrative. After four seasons of episodic stories, it evolved to have a more serialized structure in order to give us a definitive end. It offered us insight into Jack’s inner struggles, and continued to show us this wonderful fantastical world that had been created. There is value to this show’s continuation. We gain closure, development for Jack, a new protagonist in Ashi, and action and style that keeps the spirit of the original show. I was disappointed by some aspects of it, sure, but I came away happy to have watched it. Happy to have that closure and feeling I had gotten something out of it.

As I look at Dragon Ball Super, I feel remarkably empty about it. I don’t care about Beerus, I don’t care about Goku finding a way to add Kaioken X 20 to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, and I don’t care about the Tournament of Power. I feel as indifferent to it as I did to the later movies, to GT and the countless video games that came out after the series finally “ended.” While it’s more of a rumor than it is a proven fact, people often say that Toriyama tried to end the series multiple times after a while, and really, Dragon Ball does seem like it could have ended anywhere. The infamous power creep the series underwent assures us that eventually there’s nowhere else to go. Goku started the series fighting goofy carrot monsters and shapeshifting pigs, before fighting the equivalent of Satan with Demon King Piccolo, and then his son after that. Then, after growing up and getting married, it all could have ended….except Raditz showed up. Then Vegeta and Nappa, and then Frieza. Goku could have ended the series in space, defeating the strongest being in the universe and becoming a legendary Super Saiyan in the process. But there were these Androids, you see, and a boy from the future. And then, Goku’s son seemed fit to take over the throne as the world’s strongest by defeating Cell, but we had to have another timeskip to fight Majin Buu and give Goku one last time to shine. The series had plenty of opportunities to end, and for a time it did after the Majin Buu arc. But for it to come back now, it better have a good reason to. It needs to give viewers some kind of value, and I have to ultimately question…what does Super actually give us? Another palette swap for Goku? I think I’ll pass.

Dragon Ball Super can have its moments and really, if you liked the original show, there’s plenty to like here as well. The series feels like it’s resting on the laurels of its legacy, not content to continue to take risks or at least address its flaws. Toriyama can do better than this, Toei animation can do better than this, and ultimately, its fans deserve better than this.

Until next time,

-B

#xb-squaredx #blog #dragon ball super #dragon ball z #anime #shonen #my hero academia #naruto #bleach #hunter x hunter #one piece #jiren #goku

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thehotwingking · 7 years ago

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Alright, so let’s talk DBS episodes 109 and 110. I want to talk about the absurdity of Jiren, about the Limit Breaker, and also about the next big fights.

It's a long read, so don't read it. It's mainly for myself.

ok so first off, Jiren is way too OP. Not fair. I mean, I get the point of his character, but I am a bit strained over this same type of villain/character. The character with the power that is the most powerful someone can be. Cell was this perfect being that no one could match. Then Buu was supposed to be the strongest person in the universe that no one could match. Beerus is a God of Destruction, and again no one could match. All three of these guys make sense in terms of world building. I'm not completely sure how Gero could manifest someone as strong as Cell (I think it has to do with gene splicing all the DNA from everyone but IDK, IDC and/or remember), but both Beerus and Buu make perfect sense since the universe is so vast.

Hit makes sense. The best fighter in universe 6. Obviously, he'd rival Goku. Even Black made sense. You get a Kai, you put his power into Goku's body. God ki with Goku's power. It makes sense. Sure, I probably got a little tired of the fact that Fused Zamasu existed, and he seemed literally impossible to beat after Vegito failed. But I got over it... sort of lol. (Ok not over it cause I hate that ending lol)

ok Idk where I'm going with this. It's just that JIREN MAN WHAT THE FUCK. How is some that is unfused and a mortal that strong?? Like we got Goku having to learn new techniques out his ass in order to even compete with Jiren and he still lost (totally called that last week btw.)

It's just... just how strong do these guys need to be, Akira!? Where do we go from here? Like, this show always puts me in a suspension of disbelief when seeing transformations like SSJ, or Gohan ascending SSJ, or even SSJ3. Like when watching those transformations I'm always like wtf how, Sway? But after thinking about it... it just makes sense. And by making sense I mean both by the power of the transformation and how it came about. It's just now with Jiren, his power just doesn't make sense, and I also can't make sense of how he became so strong. Surely, it'll be explained in one of the next few episodes obviously. I believe one of the God's touched upon it for a little, but it was only a few words and not much. There's obviously a reason why he's so strong that hasn't been explained yet, but...

The extent to how strong he is... I can't make sense of it at the moment. This dude was just STARING at the Spirit Bomb, and it did NOTHING to him. This dude took a punch from Goku at his LIMIT and it did NOTHING to him. Exactly how strong is he, and how strong must someone be to beat him? I. Can't. Make. Sense. Of. It. And I don't know how anyone can beat him.

Freiza -> Become a legendary Super Saiyan Perfect Cell -> Rage pass a legendary Super Saiyan Buu -> Spirit Bomb his ass to hell as a SSJ3 Beerus -> Super Saiyan God ritual Golden Frieza -> Didn't master his own form Hit -> Super Saiyan Blue with God Ki control + Kaioken Fused Zamasu -> So broken and OP that you need the Lord of Lords AKA (deus ex machina) Jiren -> Absorbed Spirt Bomb plus Ultra Instinct.... doesn't work??

Goku already used a spirit bomb. He already done unlocked a new form/technique. He can't fuse. What is there left for Goku or anyone to do? Is he gonna unlock another form? And yeah I get that this is the fun part about Super. Always trying to guess stuff. I remember after BotG I was tripping over the fact that there were several other universes with several other God's of Destruction with also several other strong people, but I would never expect some shit like this. I never thought we would even see any of them. Just that they existed.

The ONLY person I remember being this unstoppable for the first time was Buuhan, but even then you could see that Goku had to fuse with someone in order to beat Buu. but with Jiren... what the fuck can anyone do? Not like Goku can just hakai his ass. I can't... for the life of me figure out a way to beat him one on one. It has to be some group effort type shit. It has to be. And at this point I'm not convinced Goku will beat Jiren.

Alright that was a long as talk about Jiren. Mind you, I don't hate the arc. I'm patiently waiting to see what happens

Second: Ultra Instinct is dope, and also I feel dumb because it could have been easily predicted through foreshadowing. Toriyama likes doing these things where he mentions one thing in a past arc or episode and then it ends up happening. Obviously, being able to move without thinking was going to be something Goku was going to do eventually, and the Limit Breaker transformation is obviously it. I noticed it almost immediately the moment Goku slung his ass at Jiren and did a shooting star press for no reason.

In my eyes it seems like Limit Breaker isn't really a transformation like super saiyan, but more like a kaioken. Essentially, it's a technique. Still, it's obviously really powerful when used by Goku. The way I see it is that it's a combination of three things. Learning Ultra Instinct, absorbing the power of the Spirit Bomb, and also the mixture of his own power. So, it's not another saiyan transformation... I THINK. It's more of the power of a God rather than a saiyan. So like.. say if Krillin won the tournament of power and wished to have the power of a God then in theory he could possibly learn Ultra Instinct through sheer will power to live such as Goku did. If that makes sense. You need to have supreme power like a god, and sort of hit your limit, but exceed pass it using your will power.

But it'll probably only be Goku using technique and I doubt anyone else ever does the "Limit Breaker." I do think Goku will master this Ultra Instinct and use it again to fight Jiren, but I have no idea if he will be as powerful as he was the first time. Unless of course Goku does some "absorb the power and retain it even after it's gone" bullshit again lol.

Third, the future fights.

Universe 2 -> 5 fighters left. Universe 3 -> 6 fighters left Universe 4 -> 4 fighters left. 2 invisible Universe 6 -> 6 fighters left. Hit, 3 saiyans, 2 namekians Universe 7 -> 7 fighters left. Universe 11 -> 3 fighters left. Dispo, Toppo, and LolJiren

Alright, so Hit vs Jiren has me lowkey hyped. I think Hit is gonna get his ass whooped in the end, but at the same time I do think Hit will get some good punches on Jiren using newer techniques that we haven't seen yet. I hate to say it.. last week I was thinking that Hit might be the one to eliminate Jiren because I thought Jiren was going to eliminate Goku, but with Goku still around and Jiren not looking tired AT ALL then I think Hit is going to be eliminated. Y'know, I thought Hit or Vegeta were gonna beat up some leftovers, but Jiren still looks undamaged. GG Hit. Sorry universe 6. I don't see the three remaining saiyans being able to do anything. I could see all four attacking Jiren at the same time, but probably not since it might mean their defeat and elimination. I know the love of my life Caulifla aint gonna go out like no bitch though. I fucking love that girl. Bae as fuck. She's my everything.

I want Vegeta to eliminate that thing like right NOW. Please Vegeta... I can't stand that character. Vegeta has no time to spare dealing with that garbage knowing that Jiren is out there fucking shit up. Also, IDC if Vegeta didn't lend Goku some of his power. Don't care. That universe still has a good amount of fighters left though, so I'm not convinced Brianne is the strongest person from the universe. Just the most loved.

Gohan, Piccolo, 17, and 18 are also still out there. I believe they have to have a big fight coming up. Not sure who the Androids are going to fight. Most likely some universe 2 or 3 fighters. Actually, definitely one of those universes. Whichever universe has the one with androids. I know one of them has androids. Android vs Android which also brings me to namekian vs namekian. Piccolo is obviously going to fight one of his Namekian counterparts from Universe 6. (there's two???) If he loses then obviously Gohan is gonna whoop that guy's ass. I don't see why Piccolo should win or beat both Namekians. You know what would really be cool? If prior to the tournament Champa went to his version of planet Namek to seek out a strong warrior like Piccolo, and then a bunch of strong Namekians fused together to form a strong being like KaPicaNail. Lol. That would be a dope fight though I doubt either Namekian stacked a bunch of fusions.

Also, I guess Gohan could end up fighting Toppo or Dispo. They need to be eliminated as well. I don't know who else other than Vegeta can eliminate them. Don't think anyone in U6 can eliminate them aside from Hit, and there is too much unknown from the other remaining universes.

Finally, Goku VS Frieza.... we all saw that ending. And..... they're not going to fight. Goku instant transmissioned to Frieza for a reason, and Frieza is just being a dick because that's who he is. He's not going to hurt Goku or fight him. Idk what Goku could possibly want from Frieza, but it should be an interesting development. Probably just gonna ask Frieza to defend him while Goku tries to regain his energy back. That would be a way for Goku to jump back into the tournament near the end of it so we can see the other characters do shit. There's still like 30 people left.

#tags for reference #dragon ball super #jiren #goku #limit breaker #ultra instinct #DBS #dragon ball #goku vs jiren #hit vs jiren

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thebigmick284 · 6 years ago

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Dragonball Super: Broly thoughts

Light spoilers below.

The Good

*The backstory.

This movie also made me want more on Vegeta’s past. What happened to his mother? What happened to King Vegeta when Freeza destroyed planet Vegeta? Was he already dead prior or what?

*Broly

Even Paragus felt more developed in this movie. Unlike DBZ Movie #08, you can tell he really loves his son yet he still wants to use him as an instrument for his revenge, sadly.

*Freeza

*Cheelai and Lemo

I thought these two were a lot of fun and their dynamic with Broly was great. Hope to see more of them in the future.

*The backgrounds

The backdrops for the movie were just gorgeous, from Planet Vegeta, to especially Planet Vampa. They gave the movie an appropriate level of atmosphere.

*The future

I think this movie sets up a lot for the future of the series. Freeza’s future ambitions and Broly’s character for example. I’m REALLY excited so see what Toriyama and Toei come up with next.

The Bad

Nothing was really bad in the movie overall but…

*The fights

*The character designs/animation

I wasn’t the biggest fan of how the characters looked in this film say compared to Battle of Gods and Resurrection F. They felt much more detailed in those films compared to here, where they looked more… not sure how to put it… cartoony here. Some characters looked fine- Freeza, Broly, Paragus, Cheelai and Lemo while Goku, Vegeta and Beerus etc looked off to me. There was some derpy looking animation at times. Thankfully in the fight scenes the characters looked much better and as mentioned this is where likely the majority of the budget went

*Power scaling

A big problem with modern Dragonball nowadays IMO is that Goku and Vegeta have God-level strength, and it’s hard for them to have villains who should be convincingly at this level or even stronger for them to face. I can JUST buy Freeza training for four months and catching up to their levels because he was incredibly powerful to begin with, I but Broly was harder to believe. It’s like the Artificial Humans/Androids… A human scientist is somehow able to make machines and add robotic devices to humans and make them stronger than Freeza.

*The music

The what the?

*The Editing

*What the?

Cheelai and Lemo don’t know what the Dragonballs are… yet then later on they suddenly do. I get that they presumably forced Kikono to tell them but how or why would they just think to do that was really jarring. I mean yeah I know Cheelai says in one part along the lines of ‘I WISH we could do some/thing’ but still. It just came up out or nowhere.

Overall

7/10

#dragon ball super broly #dragonball super broly #spoilerish

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sweetescapeartist · 3 years ago

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DBS COLORING BOOK CHAPTER 73 REVIEW

Alright... let's do this.

The first 4 pages are good. Good flow, not too many pages, no dialogue (thank God). Page 5 is where the paneling gets unnecessary. The last 2 panels aren't needed.

Page 6 is absolutely stupid. Goku & Granolah are flying at extremely high speeds, Goku is firing ki blasts that are moving at a higher velocity than he is currently moving, Granolah moves even faster in order to dodge Goku's ki blasts, then Granolah is using his scarf that is wrapped around a tree to swing around the tree & get behind Goku... A SCARF.

The scarf would tear apart instantly if Granolah tried to use it to catapult/swing himself around faster than Goku can perceive.

YOU: "The scarf is probably really strong tho!"

Sure let's assume that. In that case, the tree would be uprooted from the velocity Granolah is moving. Either way, it doesn't make sense. If this was early Dragon Ball and Yamcha did something like this when fighting Goku, then yeah it would be reasonable and look cool. With the power these characters are at now, it just looks ridiculous and inconvenient. It doesn't work here. Granolah could've easily dodged on his own and much faster that wraping his scarf around the tree.

So Granolah swings around and kicks Goku through tons of trees. (Saiyans killed his ppl but Granolah is killing his planet. Ironic)

Hey look! Another stupid page 😒

Page 7. Goku got sent flying back at a speed capable of easily cutting through tons of trees, but he slows himself down by grabbing a branch & swinging around it? Why? Again, at that speed, Goku would yank the limb of the tree clean off or uproot the entire tree. That wouldn't slow down his speed. He would be better off just stopping in the air on his own as if he applied the emergency breaks. Characters have done that plenty of times. Again, stuff like swinging around trees and tree branches is stuff they would had done in OG Dragon Ball.

Why is Goku blocking like that?? He isn't reinforcing his arm, he's holding his wrist whole his forearm gets punched. That would damage his arm and/or wrist.

*Boom boom! Bam bam!* They hit each other some. But are you ready for this? Pages 11-12...!

Why did Goku yell as if he is transforming? He is using Ultra Instinct, right? You don't yell to power that up. Remember the Moro arc? He calmly breathes to go into the state. Remember the chapter before? He calmly closes his eyes to focus. Why is he yelling then tapping into UI? Because Toyotaro can't write consistently. This page was...! just dumb...

Also... What is this SSB with Ultra Instinct then? You remember the SSB aura around UI Omen in the Moro arc? What's the difference between "Blue plus Ultra Instinct" & "Ultra Instinct plus Blue?"

Granolah says he can read Goku's blood flow and cell movements. That should come in handy later when he could potentially find a weakeness in Goku using UI. Hopefully Goku doesn't tell him he can't stay in the form too long. 🤞

SSB with UI is more focused that lower forms in combination with UI. Goku should be nearly untouchable. Pages 13 - 14 show how well Goku can dodge. Looks like ballet in a way, like Goku us dancing around him. I like that. Then he uses a point blank Kamehameha. Looks cool. But it turns out that Granolah simultaneously hit Goku somehow. Not a complaint here.

Pointless panels of Oil being blown back by the force. Pointless panels of Vegeta not paying attention to the fight and looking around. Pointless 2 panels of smoke clearing away. The entire page doesn't add anything at all. Page 17 could be omitted & it would flow better.

Goku is on the ground for the... 3rd time in this battle? I wish it would at least have Granolah say he didn't realize how difficult UI with SSB would be for him, but he barely saw an opening. That would be some sort of respect for Goku and did some clever foreshadowing. But we get Granolah insulting Goku instead. Whatever.

This "vital points" nonsense is so stupid. Everyone in DB has nearly identical vital points. Majin Vegeta knocked Trunks out by chopping at his vital point. These characters know what vital points are and know them well as we have seen when they were in combat since early DB. Granolah should be saying "My right eye will always find an opening." But maybe its a translation error or something. I won't be too harsh about this one.

Wait wait wait. Lemme get this straight...

Whis trained Goku, then Goku is able to use UI in the ToP.

Merus trains Goku to use UI Omen at will.

Goku later masters UI with silver hair.

Whis points out new flaws that didn't exist then trains Goku even further.

Goku has been trained by 2 Angels to the point of being able to go into Mastered UI at will and recieved further training after mastering the Angelic power. How is it that Goku has the gull to say "No, Ultra Instinct should have no weaknesses. If anything's lacking, it's gotta be my training."

And he's telling Granolah that he is vulnerable for some reason...? He's just foreshadowing for the reader that he will lose. The last 4 or 5 panels of page 19 isn't needed.

Whatever. Let's move on. So on page 20, for some reason, Goku has a confused look & a question mark in his speech bubble after Granolah blames Saiyans for killing his ppl. Maybe Goku doesn't understamd why Granolah is repeating himself for the 3rd or 4th time? Or he wasn't listening the earlier times. Can't blame him. Granolah's speeches bored me too.

Granolah copies Moro & makes lava rise from the core of his beloved home planet in order ro hurt Goku. Poor Sugarians. I wonder if there will be a "You're becoming the bad guy now, Granolah." type of story. Dont really care though. Goku escapes by teleporting. He mentions how Granolah has Moro's move. I guess Granolah is supposed to be like Cell and have others techniques... like Moro before him... They are both altered copies of Cell who is much cooler than both of them combined...

Well, here they are making Vegeta look capable (somehow?). Also its interesting that the bloodthirsty Granolah is allowing Goku & Vegeta to chat about their discovery of who his ppl are. The the ex-detective Vegeta quickly figures out that Maki & Oil fooled them. That was rushed. "But Vegeta was suspicious of them before." Yes, but there was no reason or anything we heard that would make Vegeta suspicious. The writing is bad. Also it's convenient that Oil has a drone all of the sudden to eavesdrop. The last 4 panels of page 24 are pointless.

GOKU: "Hey let's talk to him and clear things up."

VEGETA: "Nah. He's probably too stubborn. Just fight to move the story along instead."

Goku says he hasn't used his full power yet & Vegeta is surprised. How does Vegeta not realize Goku hasn't used his full power, Mastred UI? Then Vegeta says "Tch... Gotta resort to that in the end, huh?" Toyotaro is having Vegeta downplay UI in order to hype up Vegeta's fight next chapter. Bad writing. There's better ways to hype Vegeta up. Toyo chose one of the worst ways to do so.

Granolah... Just standing and waiting for Goku to come back. What a patient revenge fueled man.

UI Goku through the fog looked cool. (And his wounds heal? Ok...) But, seeing that made me realize something else. It would be much cooler if it went from page 22 then skip to page 26!

We don't need Goku & Vegeta chatting. The reveal of UI would not have had a pace breaker. It just happens & you see that Goku is serious now. Show don't tell.

GRANOLAH: "I can't perceive... any vital points?!"

That sounds stupid, so I do think it is a translation error.

GRANOLAH: "I can't perceive... any openings?!"

Now that reads much better! (I also edited the dialogue to "openings" in the pic above.)

Great... Goku conveniently exposed a weakness in UI that Whis had conveniently made up in CH 71. Although, in CH 59 Whis said that Mastered UI doesnt have the stamina issue that UI Omen has. Then in CH 64 it shows that the stamina issue is gone with Mastered UI during the 3 chapter battle with Moro. Goku never looked fatigued or weak in this form. Only time the form went away is when "planet" Moro drained Goku of his energy.

But now Goku & Whis say otherwise. How suddenly contradictory. Page 26 of this current chapter (CH 73) would be better if the last 2 panels were omitted.

Mastsred UI Goku easily takes down Moro- I mean Granolah. Also Goku tries to chat now after attacking Granolah. Should've said something before you start kicking ppl in the face. But this is shown to prove Vegeta is right about not being able to reason with Granolah. Even if it makes no sense.

Cool dodging & aikido type movement from Goku.

Goku using "the force" & stopping Granolah's movements was cool. Reminded me of Goku doing something similar to Broly in the DBS movie. Or more similarly, like Zamasu did in the manga.

I guess Toyotaro is suggesting that the quick flurry of punches is a Master UI kind of move. (Although it originated in the anime when UI Omen Goku was punching back against Jiren & when he did so to block attacks from Jiren in EP 129.) I hope this move isn't over used that it ends up losing its flare.

Vegeta pretends to be upset that Goku defeated Granolah while in the previous chapter, Vegeta told Goku to fight first.

Somehow Vegeta is able to sense that there are 2 Granolahs. You can say because he has spirit control, but Goku has been through that kind of training with Roshi, Kami, & King Kai (possibly some with the Yardrats too which helped him control Super Saiyan at the level he could). And with Instant Transmission, Goku must be an expert in detecting ki. He can feel ki in different realms and locate ppl from far across the galaxy Goku should sense this too. All this writing is doing is trying to make Vegeta appear as the more capable fighter & get Vegeta fans hype for his next battle. That's all.

The switcheroo (I think I used that wrong) of a fake Granolah was a kinda clever idea. But Goku not knowing what "split" means is asinine.

Goku literally says "Split...? What's that mean?"

Goku has seen firsthand when Tien split into multiple Tiens, Goku knows the Yardrats can split themselves into many ppl, he saw merged Zamasu split himself, & he saw Moro split himself. Why is he written so stupid? I need answers Toyo.

Page 40....

HOW IN THE HECK did Mastered UI get caught off guard?! Ain't it supposed to automatically grow sturdier as necessary?! Boy oh boy, this writing... A positive is that the punch looks like the 1 inch punch Goku did to Golden Freeza (inspired by the legendary Bruce Lee).

So if actual Granolah is twice as strong and can one shots UI Goku... Vegeta doesn't stand a chance. But the bad writing will make a way for Vegeta to look somewhat capable.

Granolah says UI becomes less sharp over time. Only problem is that Goku fought longer against Moro. This fight of UI Goku should have been longer. If the fight was longer when in the UI "transformation" then I would be more generous about Granolah finding an opening. Speaking of openings, Granolah says "opening" instead of "vital point." Must be a translation error.

Goku is in a near death-like state and Vegeta is like

VEGETA: "Leave that fool alone. Fight me instead."

Vegeta threatening Granolah is either stupid or smart. Smart = Vegeta provoking Granolah to get an advantage mentally. Dumb = Vegeta reverting to his Cell saga overconfidence that Toyo always does.

IN CONCLUSION:

STILL NO IMAGE OF FREEZA... I guess he isnt that important to the story after all. And this storytelling is so bad because Toyo can't stay consistent at all, he doesn't understand the characters, & he can't come up with anything besides "this form also drains stamina." You can say he & Toriyama write this together but I doubt it. Toriyama corrects his art & just gives the story a pass.

Recently it seems that Toriyama is more interested in the DBS movies being produced. Toriyama just writes an outline, Toyotaro & Toei write their versions of the story around that, Toriyama corrects Toyotaro's art & Toriyama also corrects or adds to what Toei thinks up. Example being when Toei created Kale & Toriyama created Caulifla in response.

I'm not excited for the next chapter. I don't care what Vegeta does. How is Vegeta going to win against someone who one shotted Goku in UI. Either the writing will be kinda smart or just plain stupid. I'm expecting stupid.

Idk if I'll review the next chapters. The bad writing was too much for me. I wrote this review last month right 1 day after the chapter came out, but I didnt want to read the manga again to get the images I need for this review. So I put it off for almost 1 month.

I wanna take a break from this bad manga...

#dragon ball #dragon ball super #dbs #dbs manga #dbs manga chapter 73 #review #Goku #Vegeta #Granolah

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duhragonball · 4 years ago

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Yamcha if you're still doing the character meme?

I am still doing these, and I’m enjoying it, so keep ‘em coming. Before I start, let me promote the original post, in case anyone else wants to start their own thing. I’d link to the OP, but I guess they deleted this from their blog, probably because their notifications went nuts.

Give me a character and I will answer:

Why I like them: Let’s be honest, Yamcha doesn’t get a lot of big “hero moments” in Dragon Ball. Or Dragon Ball Z, or Dragon Ball GT, or Dragon Ball Su-- Look, you get the idea. In most arcs, he’s the first one to get benched. In tournaments, he always loses in the first round. He spent the King Piccolo Saga recovering from a broken leg. Against the Saiyans, he was the first one to die. Against the Androids, he was nearly killed and had to sit out the rest of that arc. In the Buu Sagas he was retired. In a number of major storylines, he just isn’t there, because no one called him.

But he remains a fixture in the franchise anyway, because he’s always showing up for more. Let’s take the Buu Saga as an example. It didn’t surprise me to find out he had retired, mainly from a dramatic standpoint. There’s a lot of new characters in the Buu arc, and it made sense for some of the older characters to step aside and make room for them. But he’s still there, because he wants to see Goku one last time, and he wants to hang out with his friends and watch some of them kick the crap out of each other. It was kind of sad to see him stay behind while the others rushed off to follow the Supreme Kai, but he’s retired, after all. Also, they didn’t stop to fill him in on what was happening. I suspect he might have tagged along if they asked.

As it was, he still ended up getting involved, and he was with the Dragon Team right up until Super Buu cornered them on the Lookout. And the next time we see him, he’s on the Grand Kai Planet with Krillin, and King Kai seriously considers sending them in to take on Buu in case Goku and Vegeta can’t get the job done.

And that’s a big deal, because it even comes up in the anime. King Kai tells them that he arranged for them to keep their bodies as a precaution, but he’s totally in favor of letting them remain on the Grand Kai Planet with all of the other honored warriors, like Goku. So you start with this desert bandit, a highwayman without a highway, probably because he’s afraid of all the women that use the interstate. But he gradually overcomes his fears and insecurities, never completely, but just enough to put one foot in front of the other and become a better man. And finally he ends up receiving a place among the great heroes of old.

So why doesn’t that get more attention? You could make a whole epic story out of that, except it’s not Yamcha’s story. He’s a supporting character. So the franchise itself tends to play it down. Even Yamcha doesn’t really take it all that seriously. I don’t know if that’s modesty or cluelessness or Big Himbo Energy or what, but that’s why it’s so easy for everyone to write him off as a loser or a failure. They’re overlooking the bigger picture.

youtube

The best way to illustrate this is with this TFS short that serves as an epilogue to their DBZ Abridged series. Yamcha goes back to playing baseball for the Taitans, only to get fired, because he’s so talented that he’s literally broken the game, and no one buys tickets anymore. But he gets a gigantic severance package, and he still goes down in history as the greatest ballplayer in history. What always gets to me is that they have to explain to him that this is actually a win. As his coach puts it, “you do nothing but win.”

Like Yamcha himself, we often see him from the lens of these insane Dragon Ball adventures, where you have to have glowy hair and a hot cyborg wife to be considered a success. But to the rest of the world, he’s a jacked up millionaire with fantastic hair, and he’s a real sweetheart. Who couldn’t like this dude?

Why I don’t: As you may have noticed, I tend to only use this section to talk about why I disliked the characters initially. I have to think back to 1999 when I was still having trouble keeping track of who’s who. In particular, I found Yamcha’s presence frustrating because he looked and dressed almost exactly like Goku, but not quite, which seemed bizarre. Later, I picked up on the context, and it didn’t bother me as much.

Yamcha does have a bit of an overconfident streak in some situations, which might look like unfounded arrogance, but I think it’s really just his carefree nature and enthusiastic can-do spirit. He was confident about their chances against the Saiyans, but I don’t think that was him being cocky. He just knew they had all trained hard and he was stronger than he’d ever been. But that’s easy for people to jump on as a reason to hate the guy.

Future Trunks claimed that he fooled around while he was involved with Bulma, but come on. Does anyone really buy that? Besides, at best, that would only apply to Future Yamcha, the one who died in the other timeline. Once Trunks changed the past, all bets were off.

Favorite episode (scene if movie): I’m gonna get a little nuts here and go with TFS’s playthrough of Legacy of Goku I, where they decided to level up Yamcha and have him solo Broly.

youtube

Basically, in an RPG game like this, Wolf Fang Fist can do monster damage, so they maxed out Yamcha’s stats to wreck the game’s hidden superboss. You have to skip to 1:40:00 or so to see the successful attempt, but I loved this video. This is where I learned to respect the utterance of “Roga... fufuken!” Broly probably would have respected it, too, except he died from all those hits he took.

Favorite season/movie: You know, that fight with Tien was a classic. Not sure it’s in my top ten, but it’s on a lot of people’s lists, and I absolutely get that.

Dumb as it may sound, I enjoyed seeing Yamcha in the hospital, wrestling with his own despair as he recuperated from his broken leg. And when he shows up at the end to congratulate Tien and accepts Tien’s apology, well, like I said, Yamcha has this great character arc, but it’s easy to overlook with everything else that goes on.

Favorite line: I forget which game it was in, maybe Budokai 3, but one of his pre-fight taunts is “Watch this, Puar! I’m gonna win!”, which always makes me think of Puar sitting just off-camera, watching the action from a little lawn chair.

Favorite outfit:

I may take some heat for this, but I like the Androids/Cell Saga version of Yamcha, with the short, spiky hair. This dude’s long, luxurious rockstar ‘do is a national treasure, sure, but I dig this look more.

Also, I consider Yamcha to be the only guy from the Turtle School who pulls off the slippers and no-blue-undershirt look. It looks off when I see it on Krillin and Goku, but with Yamcha it just feels right.

OTP: This guy gets shipped with a lot of people, probably because he’s one of the major characters without an established love interest. Folks still carry a torch for Bulma, some people ship him with Tien, Frieza hit on him in FighterZ, and I’m still trying to make sense of that. He flirts with your character in the Xenoverse games. Years ago, I considered doing something with that, but I’ve fleshed out my OC enough to where I don’t think that fits.

At the end of the day, I can only see Yamcha getting together with @cozymochi ‘s OC, Marzi.

Brotp: Tien, Krillin, Goku. Hell, I always figured Yamcha was one of the few people Vegeta could get along with to some extent.

I mean, Tien couldn’t stand to be one the same planet as Vegeta, but Yamcha keeps coming over to have hot dogs at Bulma’s place, long after the Namekians have left.

Head Canon: He’s Luffa’s type, don’t get me wrong. I just don’t see any room in my fic for a whirlwind courtship. The stars just don’t align.

Unpopular opinion: I’m not really behind this notion that they should give the humans more stuff to do in future series. When it comes to supporting characters, sometimes they get phased out, and there’s no point in phasing them back in unless there’s a compelling story idea for them.

I think it’s dumb how they teased Yamcha in the Tournament of Power prelude, only to leave him out of the tournament itself. On the other hand, they put Tien on the team and barely used him, which tells me that even if they’d put Yamcha on the team, it wouldn’t have amounted to anything.

I get it, people love these characters and want to see them used more, but I’d rather have one strong Yamcha story than a hundred non-starters. And at this point, I think the only thing anyone can do is rely on fan-created content. Be the change you want to see in the world.

A wish: Crap, it’s after ten pm. I dunno, I wish Marzi was canon.

An oh-god-please-dont-ever-happen: I feel like the character’s already been through worse than I could come up with for him.

5 words to best describe them: Cat loves food, yeah yeah yeah. That’s six, but who cares?

My nickname for them: Yeah, I don’t have one.

#ask duhragonball #dragon ball #yamcha #yamucha #Anonymous

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uman143 · 7 years ago

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How I would do Dragonball Super

I’m 40+ episodes into Dragon Ball Super on Toonami and it’s mostly not very good. But there are some elements of it that I do enjoy, so I’m going to write down how I would do the series if I was in charge.

- I won’t get bogged down thinking about how I would do it from scratch, no one would want to read that anyway. It’d just be fanfiction. I’m going to use what we already have as a base. - The overarching thing connecting most of the plots in Super is the focus on gods and the higher workings of the DB universe. This is a good idea. There’s always been sort of an upward trend of that through the entire franchise, where we start thinking Shenron is a sort of god, then meeting Kami and Piccolo who are like god and the devil, learning how heaven works at the beginning of Z, and so on until we get to Supreme and Elder Kai. This works especially because the power levels at the end of Z are so high that it feels right that we need to go into those higher strata and eventually into other universes to find higher power levels. - Starting from there, I’m going to go through the whole show and say what I would keep and not keep.

- So, for Battle of Gods, I like that Goku never actually matches Beerus’s power. It sets a goal for him to continually get to throughout Super and it feels very cosmic. What I don’t like is the lack of explanation about almost anything interesting that’s introduced here. Heck, there’s explanations for things that we didn’t need, like how Beerus met Vegeta’s dad, but there’s no explanation on how the Saiyans have this insane ritual that lets them become gods. - Remember how Dragonball Z was much more serious than Dragonball? Well, the change from DBZ to my DB Super is that a lot more is explained. There’s more mythology, so we can explain where all these super high power levels come from. They can’t just get away with having them go higher and higher with no real change in how they train, or no explanation for how Super Saiyan God works. That’s one of the most annoying things about Super to me. They just throw any real sense of progression out the window. It’s almost like a challenge to the writers: So you want to make a new Dragonball series. How do you justify having powers continually grow beyond their already insane amounts (there’s a hint of this in the Buu arc, where almost every powerup in that arc is due to magic)? I think that warrants explanation, and I myself am explaining this choice a lot because I know it’s kind of controversial to think of DB with a bunch of exposition. But think how much cooler Super Saiyan God would be if it got more buildup than “I heard this thing exists?” and then asking Shenron about it? What if Bulma actually had to do some kind of intergalactic research about this, like she does a bit later in the show? The Saiyans need to have some concrete connection with the gods in order for SSG to be a thing. There’s talk in that arc about “Divine Power” and it seems to almost be different from regular power. That’s never explored, but it’s interesting.

Surprise Note: Between the time I started writing this and the time I posted it, Toriyama actually tried to explain a little bit about Super Saiyan God in an interview, which is amazing. However, the explanation is more related to the original SS form, and also is about as good as the one I come up with here, so I’m keeping the following in the post. The Saiyans are this race that are wildly amazing warriors, turn into giant monkeys, and get stronger every time they heal from injuries. What if there was a battle-obsessed Kai a long time ago who made this race somehow, and SSG was invoking his spirit? That doesn’t sound too complicated, right? - You can keep the ritual itself and especially Videl’s involvement, which is the most creative thing in Super thus far. You can keep the cruise ship setting because that’s new and interesting. You can even keep Pilaf’s involvement because why not. - We need to explain why Goku can still breathe in space and retain the god power after it supposedly runs out, or just have it not run out at all. We need to change the scene where Beerus hits Bulma, because it doesn’t really amount to anything except another declaration from Vegeta that he loves his family, which we know. That could easily be a smaller more subtle moment where he simply takes that hit for her without saying anything. And we need to change those weird-ass energy waves created by Goku and Beerus clashing that threaten to destroy the world or universe or whatever. Those were so stupid. Where did they come from? Why do we never see them again? They’re unneeded because this arc should be about Goku proving himself and realizing how much further there is still to ascend. And Beerus threatening to destroy the world is enough, we don’t need these energy waves. - One final thing we need to get into is what exactly being a Destroyer means. I don’t mind them existing, but we need to get into what the Kais do that counteracts the destroying - do they create new worlds? - And we need to understand how it is that Beerus can seemingly stop destroying anything after this arc, when that’s supposedly his purpose. In one of the more recent episodes that aired on Toonami, Zeno actually says that it is their purpose to destroy. So why aren’t they doing it anymore? Yes, it would be weird to have him still running around destroying entire civilizations in a show with a light tone like this, but that’s just something that needs to be reconciled with what we know about Beerus. We saw him destroying planets early on in the show, and that was also weirdly lighthearted when it should be a bigger deal. You can’t just introduce a character who blows up billions of people every day and treat it like it ain’t no thing. So just, figure that stuff out I guess. - I don’t have too many problems with the beginning of the Golden Frieza arc. It’s fine to have a plotline focusing around Pan’s birth. I would say the Mr. Satan stuff is unneeded - it’s yet another story about him being confused for being stronger than he is. Just have him be more involved in the Pan storyline, he’s her grandfather after all. Mr. Satan can be funny without doing that one thing. -I don’t mind that Whis trains Vegeta and Goku either. It’s kind of a cool twist to have him be Beerus’s teacher, and gives you the idea that there’s stuff about the higher workings of the universe that still have yet to be explained (and of course, at this point, there are). I think Beerus should also still be relatively hostile to Goku and Vegeta at this point, because I assume we don’t want to make him not a destroyer, so the other option is that he’s still planning to go around destroying at this point, which means he should be less quick to be friends with them. This isn’t too hard to do since he’s a pretty ornery guy anyway. But the training itself needs to be more interesting. They get into this a little bit, with Whis teaching them to move without taking the time to sense ki and stuff. There should be more unique methods and things like that - these are crazy levels of power, it has to be unorthodox. Also, if we’re going to do Super Saiyan Blue in this arc (and I’m not sure that we will), hint at that a little bit beforehand. - Don’t show Champa and Vados so early though. They distract from the main threat this arc, and sort of make you want it to end so you can see what’s up with them. Or actually, maybe you could show them and...Hold on, I’ll get to this in a minute. - So, Frieza. Some stuff about his reintroduction can be improved. In Super, he just has some remnants of his army running around, and they use the Dragonballs to wish for pieces of his body, and then reform him using technology. I just feel like this should be more hard-fought. I see why the Dragonballs need to be used, so we can keep those. But instead of his army just running around in a ship somewhere, we should see what it’s like still pledging your life to this dead empire. What have they been doing in the many intervening years? Are they space pirates? Do they recruit people? Are they viewed as something like a cult on other planets? Let’s see how far they had to come to get to this point. Then, after they use the Dragonballs, they shouldn’t just be able to get Freiza into tip-top shape just like that. Maybe once they revive him he’s in a much weaker, almost emaciated state, and has to train harder than ever to even get back to how strong he was before. And yes, we’re removing that stupid bit about Freiza never having to had to train before. The dude had three different forms to conserve his power because he had so much. You can say that he was born with some of that, but don’t say that he didn’t train at all. Since he’s weak, we can also have him be a bit more grateful to the people that revived him, and I’m either-or on whether he should still shoot Tagama or not because I tend not to like it when villains hurt their henchmen, having seen it eighty billion times in One Piece. So, now, instead of making a new form to conserve his power, he’s making a new form to attain higher power, which he’s never done before. Of course, we don’t know about Golden Freiza until he transforms into it later, but we can hint that that’s what he’s trying to do. I think we should see a little bit of his training, and that technology should be a big part of it. Instead of it completely reviving him to his former strength, it can revive him into a weaker form and then help him get back to normal, and further. He’d be like Ivan Drago from Rocky. Golden Frieza would be a testament to the power of technology, that it could be used to get Frieza to the level of gods. But if he comes back weaker, it could take him a long time to train. Longer than it takes in the show, which is already awhile. Maybe we could have something happen during his and Goku and Vegeta’s training. Maybe something like...A Tournament? - Yes, I’m thinking about putting the Beerus Vs. Champa arc here, before Frieza comes to earth and before Super Saiyan Blue. I don’t think it’s a terrible idea, though I’m not married to it. Let’s just think about it. - You would lose almost nothing by doing it. Don’t want to lose the surprise reveal of SS Blue during the Frieza fight? No one said putting the tournament before it meant that Goku uses that instead of Kaio-Ken at the end. Just make him use the Kaio-Ken with regular SS God. It’s a Super Red Super Saiyan, and you still get your surprise reveal. Frieza’s eventual comeback may only be made more interesting by having Frost show up before him (or before he comes to Earth in any case). Seeing who is essentially a more powerful Frieza get put down easily by Vegeta shows you how far our Frieza has to go. It’s not too important that Jaco’s introduction is when it is, he’s not that good of a character anyway. Introducing the revelation of multiple universes and King Zeno’s promise of a tournament in the future might serve to make viewers impatient during Frieza’s return, but I’m pretty sure Goku Black doesn’t have much to do with the Tournament of Power either, so why not two arcs that don’t? The Frieza thing is pretty short anyway. - I don’t really know if there’d be a net gain from putting this tournament where it is. I think part of why I want to do it is so we can have more time with SS God before it stops being used completely. And after the tournament arc, Goku and Vegeta continue to train with Whis and everything continues like normal. So, it’s just something to think about. I’ll get to what I would change about the 6&7 Tournament later. First I have a few more things to say about Frieza. - I think the leadup to the Frieza fight itself should generally be more intresting but I’m not sure how. It’s just a battle with a bunch of Frieza’s henchmen, and Tagama is the only one that really gives them any trouble. Even just having the army attack a city instead of some random place would be more interesting. - Since it might seem like I’m being pretty hard on the series here I just want to say that a lot of Frieza’s dialogue is really good. At least (maybe especially) in the dub. He has a lot of really great and funny lines about how pissed off he is. I hope Chris Ayres can recover quick and continue voicing the character because I know he shows up again. I also like the hell Frieza was in. That can stay also. - The main thing I want changed about Resurrection F is that it should be Vegeta’s big win. Super tries to use Vegeta well, I can tell, but they still don’t use him the right way. This second Frieza fight is his opportunity to have a real win, against the guy that destroyed his planet no less. I know this is something some fans wanted when the movie came out, and I agree with them. The whole time reversal thing is bullcrap the writers did so they could have both Vegeta AND Goku win, but that’s not really how it works. Goku’s win is second, Goku’s win is final, so it’s Goku’s win in the end. No. Keep the time reversal and switch their roles, or do something else, I don’t know. Vegeta should deal the final blow here. - Golden Frieza could probably be changed a bit. Make him look slightly different, or make it so it’s made of nanites or something, like a weird upgrade of Cyborg Frieza. I don’t mind the gold and purple coloring itself though. - Piccolo dying is a bit overdone, also. Kill Kr- wait he died twice. Kill Yam- wait he also died twice. Kill Tien. - The arc isn’t that long so there’s not much more to comment on. Moving on. - Okay, so let’s talk about the 6&7 tournament now that we’re at the point where it is in the real Super. - Surprise: I don’t mind Monaka. This is actually pretty funny because I was under the impression that he was actually a strong fighter, because when these episodes first aired my friends showed me a picture of him on the wiki and said “This guy is supposed to be stronger than Goku!” He’s a gag character and he doesn’t hurt anybody, so whatever. - But I really don’t like Zuno-sama. The only saving grace of that whole episode is them randomly running into the dine-and-dashing frogman that Jaco was looking for. The rest of the episode is mean jokes about Bulma being old and other uselessness. Zuno lives on this weird planet that’s shaped like some piece of Japanese esoterica that makes no sense, and he knows all. Why? We don’t know. He’s lame and Bulma can just learn about the Super Dragonballs some other way. - The Super Dragonballs are fine, though it’s a bit weird that they’re used this early on. I guess they’ll probably be used again in the final arc? And where did these things even come from? It’s said that the Namekian ones were carved from these, but I thought that Kami created the Earth dragonballs - shouldn’t that mean Guru the Namekian elder created the Namekian ones, with magic or something? This isn’t something I necessarily want explained, but it is weird. - Goku should use his other Super Saiyan forms more. These are cool-looking forms, let’s see them. Goku’s in base form for most of this. Why? - I don’t really mind the fights and fighters from this arc. The first guy could maybe be replaced with someone more interesting, but everyone else is cool. Frost’s thing where he seems nice and turns out to be evil is good. There are some pretty good wins for Vegeta this arc, though they didn’t quite satisfy me as I said previously. The Cabba fight, especially, is another “Vegeta is cool/cares about stuff” moment that isn’t handled as well as it could be. The audience actually thinking Vegeta might be turning evil again is so damn stupid. I don’t really like the alternative - the classic battle shonen thing where the hero’s friends deduce his true actions and nod their heads and smile knowingly - but these people know Vegeta pretty well by now, it’s been like two decades since the Frieza arc where he started to turn good. There doesn’t need to be any real tension here. This fight is like a break from the tension. - The Magetta battle is pretty good, though I have no idea if you were supposed to understand what he was saying most of the time. I guess that’s a dub issue. - And then we come to Hit. Hit’s cool, but his look needs an update. He’s just a purple man in some clothes. Give him some tattoos, or something. Some indication that this guy has been through a lot. Also, as the strongest man from his universe, assassin is a pretty interesting job for him. He could be pretty much anything he wanted, so I wonder if there’s a story behind that. - And his ability is also pretty cool, but it was weird - he essentially uses it to close the distance between him and an enemy, right? But when he’s going, like, half a second or one second, well, that’s probably more than it would take him to just fly to the enemy....I’m not really sure how it works. Is it like King Crimson from Jojo? Maybe just make this a little more clear. Also have it so his body gets pretty effed up when he continues improving it near the end of the fight. That’s gotta take a toll on him. But I don’t really need an explanation for how he learned it or anything. It’s just one of those weird abilities that a single character will have in Dragonball. - Goku’s way of winning the fight is fine I guess. Though, it’s weird that he went Kaio Ken x20 when fighting Frieza, but now x3 or 4 is okay. If we’re putting this arc before Golden Frieza, I definitely think that having him just do Kaio Ken with regular SSG is a better move than having him go Blue right there. - Grand Zeno can be introduced here, but maybe make it after the Super Dragonballs are used? It kind of depends on which one you consider more important. Just something to think about. - The Super Dragon should look slightly different. Its design is fine but its arms especially are weird. At the current point, we’re one episode after that, which was a fillerish episode where Goku fought Beerus who was disguised as Monaka. I don’t know if I would make that a full episode, but it’s not insulting enough for me to be mad about it or anything. The show, to its credit, does try to involve side characters a fair amount. It’s not surprising that this is the Goku and Vegeta show at this point, so I’m not going to complain that I want to see others more - I do personally wish Uub could have been in this series, but I understand why they set it when they did, too. Obviously though, there’s still one elephant in the room: The show looks kinda bad most of the time. It’s regular Toei crap, where even though they should be able to hire the best in the biz, they hire people who don’t seem to care that much. It’s lame. The show just looks kind of glossy most of the time which kind of hurts it. The old anime had this sort of rough look to it that a lot of old anime have, and it might partially be nostalgia that I like that better,t surely they could have tried to be evocative of that here, in HD? I don’t know. The show could definitely look better and be better animated. There should be effects everywhere to showcase the massive power levels. And maybe, just maybe, the characters could.....look a little closer to their actual age. Just a little, maybe!!! I dunno. That’s it. Thanks for reading.

#dragonball super

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