#The slash fiction has gotta be intense
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I already know that if the Argyle books were real like in the way they are in the movies universe, soooo many people would be shipping Agent Argyle and Wyatt.
Agent Argylle switching sides to work with Wyatt. Wyatt not wanting to fight Argylle on the ship. The way the author describes their future as them living their lives together bc they are “partners”.
I Know the fan space has gotta go crazy in their universe 💀💀💀
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Until now, have you found any couple (canon or non canon) from any media (books, tv series, movies, anime/manga, etc) that the dynamics remind you of Neil/Andrew and Damen/Laurent?
if you're looking for dynamics specifically (as opposed to a full romance arc) the lymond chronicles, the queen's thief and empire of the vampire will scratch that damen/laurent itch.
it's common knowledge, at least in my niche circles, that cs pacat is a big fan of dorothy dunnett's work, that laurent is based on lymond and that his relationship with damen (down to specific scenes) was inspired by lymond's numerous boytoys. so reading the lymond chronicles after captive prince is constantly going aha! *leonardo dicaprio pointing meme*. what these books however don't have is a full romance arc with any of those men which is why you could say capri is, in a sense, a slash fic of the lymond chronicles. it's my favorite series of all time and i can't recommend it enough but it's also rather inaccessible in the beginning and has a steep learning curve - quite a commintment of your time and brain energy but so SO worth it!
the queen's thief is another series heavily inspired by the lymond chronicles and it has multiple ships that reminded me of damen/laurent: gen's love interest is very much a cast iron bitch and they do engage in an intense enemies to lovers romance, with some casualties. costis and kamet's story in thick as thieves is basically if the side quests laurent and damen went on were a whole separate book. and while not a canon romance like the previous two, whatever gen and costis have going on in the king of attolia is very reminiscent of the laurent/damen dynamic in book one (minus the slavery). two things to keep in mind if you decide to pick up the queen's thief: it's sort of ya (??) so the brutality and sexiness, while present, will not be on the same level as capri. and book one doesn't feature any of the above ships so, again, you gotta commit to the whole thing :)
now, while these two recs seem like no-brainers to me, i'm very excited to take this opportunity to yell about empire of the vampire from the rooftops AGAIN!! eotv is basically a story about epic quests and valiant deeds told by a jaded captive vampire hunter to his cunty vampire captor (who is blonde bc yes). jean françois is definitely inspired by anne rice's lestat (as the narrative format as a whole is inspired by interview with the vampire) but his dynamic with gabriel is just Peak Laurent/Damen Banter. "i speak your language better than you speak mine, sweetheart" and "hello, lover" galore! in fact, after i found out that pacat and jay kristoff know each other personally i became convinced that he had either read capri and borrowed the vibe OR *starts rambling about her conspiracy theory about how all australian fantasy authors drink secret australian magic juice that makes them write fun depraved sff, gets smacked on the head, passes out* where was i... ah yes, nasty gay vampires. eotv is very fun and very tropey, also very queer and sexy (esp book two) and it had my toxic yaoi needs covered however comma. jean françois/gabriel is basically them sitting in a room in the frame narrative and exchanging homoerotic barbs, while the story itself is about gabriel's past adventures (also very interesting but less homoerotic). it's unlikely that they're gonna have any sort of romance arc - unless someone reads the books and writes a fic of them. please.
alas, i still can't rec anything that comes close to what nora achieved with andreil. to me, the defining characteristics of their dynamic are two feral cats circling and sniffing each other, intricate rituals, overdramatic dialogue, aspec attraction (on neil's part). while one can attempt to find some of these elements in other stories, you cannot find all of them at once (aspec pov on relationships being particularly rare in fiction). there's just no other couple that manages to strike a perfect balance between the anime levels of drama and chaos on the one hand and the serious themes of trauma, acceptance, consent etc on the other hand. sorry, anon, ig we'll have to keep re-reading aftg until one of the aspiring authors i bet this fandom has a lot of writes their own book inspired by andreil🤷♀️
#book tag#so there's a dorothy dunnett cabal and an australian/new zealand depraved sff cabal#and pacat is in the overlapping section of these two circles#i connected the dots
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So I'm going to tell my Ed Brubaker story. I actually have a couple, but this is the relevant one.
I was a Bucky stan in the comics before the MCU existed. In 2005/6, I emailed the Cap letters page BEGGING them to not kill Bucky off again and promising all kinds of bribes if this particular version of Bucky got to stay in the Marvel universe. The Winter Soldier was my first cosplay, at WonderCon 2014, a couple weeks before CATWS even hit theaters. I have been hardcore about Bucky Barnes for two decades.
A couple years after CATWS, I was once again cosplaying Bucky in black leather at a con when my friend looked over my shoulder and informed me that Ed Brubaker was walking past behind me. I spun around and sprinted after him like a crazy woman, heedless of the fact that I was wearing great galumphing combat boots.
I caught him, and I gushed my whole ridiculous story at him and thanked him for everything, and he was gracious and lovely, and then he asked me if I wouldn't mind answering a question.
At all the cons he does, he said, he sees many more women dressed as Bucky than men. It was clear from his tone that he wasn't upset or annoyed by this--just curious. Why did so many women not only love Bucky, but want to inhabit him? Did I, as one of those women, have any thoughts on that?
I babbled something about Bucky losing his agency and being objectified in the story but then gaining it back and becoming the protagonist, and how lots of women experience the first one and long to experience the second. He listened closely to my (I'm sure) barely coherent word-vomit, thanked me, and walked off with a thoughtful expression.
You guys, Ed Brubaker thinks HARD about storytelling and its impact on its audience. He's profoundly curious and an intense listener. HE KNOWS ABOUT YOUR SLASH FICTION. He knows about fan culture and thinks deeply about it, not so much in a "how can I market to them" way as in an "I want to understand them" way. You can see even more of this in his creator-owned work. The dude has long since lost any control of this particular creation, but I would bet cash money he knew what he was doing all along. He had the option of saying, "That's nice, gotta go," and instead asked an insightful question about cross-gender cosplay dynamics.
Put some respect on this man's name.
And also pay him, because Disney ain't gonna.
It is *so* funny when I see Stucky fans whose only Marvel exposure is the MCU refer to Ed Brubaker as "a Captain America writer" like. Guys. Ed Brubaker isn't just "a Captain America writer". He is the reason the Winter Soldier exists. He loved Bucky Barnes as a character so much and was so upset that he was killed off that he became a comics writer and eventually wrote a storyline with Steve Epting where Bucky Barnes was actually alive and the Winter Soldier, eventually reunited with Steve Rogers, and eventually became the new Captain America. Ed Brubaker aged Bucky Barnes up so that he and Steve would only be three years apart, he's one of the main reasons the Stucky fandom is what it is today. Know your history, guys lmfao, he isn't "a Captain America writer", he's the reason for your existence.
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[Tw// Violence, mentions of blood and death]
13 tributes. No guaranteed number of winners.
No more practices or do overs. This is it.
This is the beginning of the Décès Match.
The first batch of tributes were revealed to the whole nation. The reigning champion. Académie céleste, in other words, Yoon Jeonghan's team.
Trumpets were blaring. Camera's were flashing. Cheers could be heard everywhere. People were excited for this year's match. Almost everyone was watching the match. It would be the first ever match where all four of the cursed abilities would be present. Three of which Jeonghan had.
To say that the tributes were nervous was an understatement. Almost all of the five tributes were being affected by pressure and worry. Jihoon was pacing back and forth the waiting area, Joshua was muttering words to himself, Seungkwan was bouncing his leg up and down, and Seokmin was already crying while talking to someone on the phone. However Jeonghan... He seemed the most calm out of all the tributes but if one looked closely, they would see the leader's eyes constantly flashing from red and black as his fingers twitched, small amounts of smoke appearing and disappearing.
It was not until it was announced that the tributes would be transported in five minutes that Jeonghan snapped out of his little moment and walked towards his members.
"Gather around everyone. I have a few words to say to all of you."
Everyone did as the leader said, gathering around and linking arms with each other. "I want you all to remember that the first thing we have to do is find each other okay? We need to stay alive and find each other. That's our best straight to keep everyone alive", The leader reminded. "And please keep in mind that no matter what happens out there, I am proud of you. You've all come such a long way to be as amazing as you all are right now. I'm sure everyone will do great. And... You all mean a lot to me. Let's all survive yeah?" His members nodded and hugged each other tightly, "We can do this! We've trained hard for this!" Jihoon exclaimed, trying to hype up the others, the healer smiled "We'll win. We have the best team ever."
"Yes we do. They should be nervous." Seungkwan joked. The team was in good spirits, ready for the game when a staff member approached the team, informing them that they would be transported to the arena now.
One by one the tributes were taken to random safe places in the arena where they would wait.
10. 9. 8. 7. 6. 5. 4. 3. 2. 1.
The buzzer goes off.
The match has officially begun.
Each of Jeonghan's members spread out, doing their best to locate each other without having to run into the other tributes. All his members were doing well, some of them pausing the search to create weapons for themselves, some trying to look for food.
[The paragraph after this will be focusing mostly on Jeonghan.]
Jeonghan sprinted into one direction, fast enough to explore the area quicker, while still trying to be quiet in order to not attract the attention of others.
Slash.
A sharp wooden spear came flying from nowhere, grazing the leader's arm. Jeonghan hissed in pain, there was no way that that was a normal knife. He gripped the wound and looked around before he was tackled to the ground, the spear pointed against his throat.
The leader looked up at his attacker, reading the name and position embroidered on the male's uniform.
'Xu Minghao/The8'
Jeonghan met the eyes of the attacker, a merciless glare in his eyes. "Would you rather die here right now from this spear? Or would you like to suffer and die from my poison that entered your body him?"
"How touching that you're letting me choose how to die in such a threatening way." Jeonghan chuckled. "You have no idea who I am don't you?"
"And why would I care about who you are?" Minghao replies, pressing the spear harder against the leader's throat, puncturing Jeonghan's skin. Jeonghan let out a gasp as he felt a sticky substance from where the spear was at, he didn't need to see it to know that it was his own blood. "Well, you should care about who I am because if you knew who I was, you would've known better and just leave me be." He smiles and uses his ability to stop Minghao from moving, paralyzing him temporarily and getting him off of his body.
"You're t-the cursed one-" The attacker mumbled.
"Indeed I am." Jeonghan says as he ripped the sleeve of his uniform, tying it around his neck to slow down his bleeding. "Lucky for you, I'm not in the mood to kill yet. I'll leave you alone. You'll be able to move in a couple hours. Goodluck." He says, chuckling as he walked away from the attacker.
The leader continued to explore his surroundings, only to be caught in an illusion just a few hours after his first encounter with another tribute.
Hours into the match, the exact moment the leader was caught in an illusion, Seokmin felt an intense feeling that his leader was in danger. And he set out to find him.
Only to cross the paths of two other tributes.
He was sent into a fit of panic, and he froze on the spot.
"See hyung? I told you there was another tribute around here." The Oracle snapped his head towards the owner of the voice, seeing a male with dark brown hair, on his uniform the word 'Oracle' and the name 'Dino' were embroidered, the other male having 'Leader/Healer' and 'Hoshi' on his uniform.
Seokmin calmed down a bit after knowing that he encountered two people who were the least likely to attack him.
He was wrong.
The two ganged up on him and it all happened too fast. Seokmin was on the ground clutching his eyes that was burning in pain.
"You're a h-healer- You're supposed to h-heal people. N-not hurt them-" Seokmin says once he's steadied his breathing. "Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do." Hoshi shrugs as he nods at Dino, giving him a knowing look. Dino grabs a vial of water and opens it, splashing water on Seokmin's face. "The water will help with the pain." Hoshi mutters, a slight smirk appearing on his lips.
The Oracle removes his hands from his eyes, opening them slowly once the pain has subsided. But... He couldn't see anything.
He was blind.
"How dare you take away my sight..." The oracle weakly spat.
The two teammates erupt in laughter. "We wanted to have our fun with you." Dino says, trying to calm himself down as Hoshi crouched in front of Seokmin, holding onto his jaw.
"Fun time is over."
Snap.
Meanwhile, Jeonghan was still trapped in the middle of the illusion, a scene that Jeonghan had always dreamed of was happening to him right now. He was seated on a swing, next to the love of his life. And slowly they both leaned in. His wildest dream was about to happen, he wanted to stay in the moment forever.
A loud canon sound booms through the entire arena, followed by a robotic voice.
"Two Oracles have been eliminated."
That statement snapped Jeonghan out from the illusion. He realized he was in the match and what has happened was all fake. Rage and worry filled his system and he unleashed his smoke, hearing the screams of the trickster responsible of the illusion. And he kept going. Until the illusion was gone and the screams were no more.
The leader walked up to the dead body hidden by some fallen trees, reading the name of his first victim.
Wen Junhui.
Another canon.
"A trickster has been eliminated."
He suddenly remembered the robotic voice alerting them of the elimination of two oracles and he started running frantically looking for Seokmin.
He stumbled and fell, landing next to a body. Eyes pitch black, neck snapped. He propped himself up, looking closely at the body, and then realization struck him.
"SEOKMIN NO!"
[This is based from a story that admin wrote. Everything is purely fictional.]
[PS. Don't come @ me]
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[TRANSCRIPT] Episode 0: The Anime They Once Saw (Or Didn’t See)
Kat 0:00
Hello and welcome to the Untitled Tallgeese Podcast, a podcast where four of us will watch Gundam Wing and then tell you all about Gundam Wing. My name is Kat, I write about comics on the internet, and I will be your episode moderator for today.
Mallory 0:17
And I'm Mallory, and I also write about comics.
Cathy 0:20
I'm Cathy, I don't write about comics. I am actually a lawyer, which sucks.
All 0:26
[laughter]
Caitlin 0:28
I am Caitlin. I'm a PhD researcher in Tokyo right now working on Japanese film. Yeah.
Kat 0:33
Extremely legit.
Caitlin 0:35
Are we?
Cathy 0:36
and we're all here to talk about the Gundam Wing.
Kat 0:38
[crosstalk] I mean we might be.
Kat 0:41
We are here to talk about Gundam Wing, the maybe not critically acclaimed, but fandom, okay, audience favorite anime that was released in 1995 in Japan and then made its way to the US in March 2000 on Toonami. So, we're going to talk about our fandom history and our history with the show Gundam Wing and I guess I will kick that off. So I-- I grew up watching anime because my dad is a huge nerd. So we were obviously watching Toonami. And the promos blew my mind. My friends and I all got really into it in middle school. Then we discovered fanfiction and we started with Heero/Relena fan fiction. [Caitlin: Ugh.] And then then we realized people could be gay.
Caitlin 1:29
Uugh, thank god.
Kat 1:30
That opened up like, I know it was like the clouds parted. rainbows fell from the sky. We were like, Oh, wow.
Mallory 1:39
[singing] "A whole new world"
Kat 1:40
[laughter] And then I don't know. I wrote a lot of fanfiction posted it on FF dotnet, got into fandom and then stayed in fandom. So, Mallory?
Mallory 1:53
I didn't have cable growing up. So whatever anime exposure I got was like, whatever was on Saturday morning cartoons. So Digimon was my first fandom and I was really into that.
Kat 2:08
Hell yeah
Mallory 2:09
And that sort of like bled into Gundam Wing somehow, I don't really remember how. But I found my way to Gundam Wing, read a lot of fanfic, hadn't ever really watched the show. And then in high school, my friend had some like random episodes from the first season question mark. I have no idea. So I watched those, and really enjoyed that? But I have no idea what their context was, so I'm coming at this pretty, pretty new.
Cathy 2:44
So you have never watched it from beginning to end?
Mallory 2:47
No.
Cathy 2:47
Got it. This will be fun.
Mallory 2:50
I'm expecting to be really disapproving of all the adults in the room. I find that like, now that I'm watching anime about kids, I'm really protective of these kids like, "Hey, this is really unethical!"
Cathy 3:02
So I'm like Kat, I started watching anime when I was I think around Middle School. I had a friend who got me into Sailor Moon, then I think it was Dragon Ball that was on Toonami at the time? I can't really remember the chronology.
Kat 3:16
Yeah.
Cathy 3:17
But then they did the promos for Gundam Wing, so then I started watching that on Toonami. And it was my first mecha series. And my first Gundam series, I think it's a lot of people's first Gundam series in the United States.
Cathy 3:31
I have attempted to do similar projects to this multiple times where I go back and I rewatch, and I haven't really had the opportunity to actually finish those rewatches. But my memory of it is still kind of stuck of when I was in middle school slash high school. I did get into fandom, so I expect to remember a lot of inaccuracies about what happened. [laughter] Because a lot of what my facts have with this series are have now mutated and changed. But I was a huge Gundam Wing fan, I think it still remains my favorite of the Gundam series just because I have so many memories of it? But I really excited to talk to Mallory, about what you feel and your experiences because it's been so long since I've talked to somebody who actually has never seen the series and doesn't know the story. So I'm super excited about this.
Caitlin 4:24
Yeah!
Cathy 4:25
All right, Cait, tell us about your family history.
Caitlin 4:27
Yeah, so similar to all of us, I guess, I watched anime growing up. I got into Sailor Moon sort of through an accident of just happening to see a very specific episode on Toonami in like 1999, 1998 maybe. So after that, I got really into anime and really into the internet. I think I was very depressed as a child. [laughter] So I spend a lot of time online. I believe that like my my first memories of Gundam Wing are when it was on Toonami: Sailor Moon was on first and then Dragon Ball Dragon Ball Z, and then Gundam Wing. And then they also were showing like the quote unquote unedited versions late
Cathy 5:09
Yes!
Kat 5:09
Yes, the midnight run
Cathy 5:11
The midnight run Right.
Cathy 5:12
Yeah. So very specific memories of like, I think I was mainly attracted to the, like, team format of Gundam if that makes sense? [Cathy: Yeah yeah yeah!] where it was used to sailor Sailor Moon where you have a team of color coded characters. And I'd, at a younger age been really into Power Rangers, where you had a team of color coded characters. So the marketing of Gundam Wing really appealed. You know, cuz I was just a kid watching on TV, I never really, I don't know if I watched the whole thing as a kid, but I got really into the fandom. And by 2000, 2001, I already knew about gay stuff online.
Kat 5:48
Wow. Look at you early bloomer.
Caitlin 5:50
Yeah. So So I got really into the various Gundam Wing pairings, I think it was mainly, I was mainly a 3x4, I think as a child. I went through some, 1x2, and then 2x5 phases. [laughter]
Caitlin 6:09
I still am a big advocate for 2x5, I think it's underrated.
Kat 6:12
I'm a big 2x5.
Cathy 6:13
2x5 is a good pairing, it definitely is.
Kat 6:16
Yeah.
Cathy 6:16
It's a better pairing as an adult.
Kat 6:17
So okay, I think that's actually a pretty good bounce off. So these are the things we remember about Gundam Wing. It was marketed, like, I remember the Toonami marketing 'cause I was really hype for this show. They had like these really extreme commercials.
Caitlin 6:34
Yeah.
Kat 6:35
Um, and I thought the voice acting was good. I don't know, maybe we'll revisit that during this watch, to see if it still is,
Caitlin 6:43
[crosstalk] Was it dubbed?,
Cathy 6:44
[crosstalk] It was dubbed, yes.
Kat 6:44
But I was ready for it. It was dubbed.
Caitlin 6:46
It was dubbed. One thing with the with the Japanese voice acting though, is that it's every single famous voice actor from the 90s. And so you can, you can use Gundam Wing is like a six degrees of every single voice actor from the 1990s.
Caitlin 6:59
Oh, that's cool.
Mallory 7:00
I mean, there are a lot of big American or like, dub dub names on the dub side, too.
Cathy 7:06
One of the things that I remember very strongly about Toonami is that they had what I think we would now call anime music videos, AMVs.
Kat 7:16
Yeah
Cathy 7:17
But they would play
Caitlin 7:18
Yeah,
Cathy 7:18
These montage trailers, where they'd stich together all their different series. And as they accumulated more anime series, these became really, I think, cinematic and gripping tales, where they would kind of try to tell a story to be about, like bravery or honor or like,
Kat 7:36
It's like, plugged directly into my little 11 year old brain like, Whoa,
Cathy 7:40
Yes. And one of them was, I remember was called, like, "technological development" or something like that, that featured a lot of the Gundam Wing clips.
Kat 7:47
Oh, yeah, cuz you only download them from like, KaZaa, or whatever horrible thing I was putting into my computer.
Caitlin 7:52
Yeah. We gotta see if we can find those. [crosstalk] They must be online somewhere.
Cathy 7:56
They are online. And I think they actually came out with like, I think somebody had either like hand by hand remastered them.
Kat 8:03
[crosstalk] Oh sick.
Cathy 8:02
Or they created a remastered version of it. They're wonderful. But that's I think one of the things about Toonami that I remember really strongly was Gundam Wing kind of is one of their, like epitome of like, Cool Anime that I feel like Toonami did and what it did was like they stiched together all these different things Outlaw Star and Tenchi Muyo and all these other stories to create a story about teenage growth, which is kind of strange and also weirdly fitting at the end of the day about like where Gundam is in the whole universe.
Kat 8:07
I think that's one of the reasons it blew up so much here because the marketing was really intense. Like Toonami, like it sort of right at the beginning, like people were into Sailor Moon, Dragonball Z was getting big. And like the manga boom was sort of happening in bookstores. So contextually, I think, Cartoon Network knew what the hell they were doing. They were like, "We can market the hell out of this."
Caitlin 8:55
And also objectively speaking, Gundam Wing was one of their cooler series. Like, Sailor Moon is cool. Tenchi Muyo is not cool.
All 9:04
[laughter]
Kat 9:06
Yeah.
Caitlin 9:07
Even even if you love it, it's not really cool. Dragon Ball. Love it. I don't know if it's really cool. Gundam Wing had like a very strong -
Kat 9:14
[crosstalk] like the chad of animes
Caitlin 9:16
- adult aesthetic to it, even though it was like, relatively, well, relatively appropriate for like 12 year olds.
Kat 9:23
And they swore during the midnight show.
Caitlin 9:25
Oh yeah,
Kat 9:26
They swore and there was blood.
Caitlin 9:27
So it was very cool. And so I felt very adult watching it even though I didn't really understand what was going on because it's all this fake politics crap.
Kat 9:35
Yeah, I was gonna say I did do a rewatch in like, like, right after college, so it was probably around 2010 ish, maybe? And I don't think we finished the series, but it was like, wow, I used to think this was very deep. [laughter] And I thought all the people in it who are the adults like Mallory, you were mentioning earlier, like they're actually like 17 and 19
Cathy 10:01
Yes!
Kat 10:01
in this show. So watching it at the age of 21, I was like, "Ooh no, don't give these people anything."
Cathy 10:09
I was actually thinking about that. Because when you said Mallory, "oh, well, I become very protective of the children. I disapprove the adults," in my head of thinking "what adults?" [crosstalk, Caitlin: yeah what adults?] because actually, in Gundam Wing, there's a funny thing where people are either 15, 25 or like 70. And there's no in between and nobody really makes adult decisions. So it, That was one thing that really shocked me because as I go back to revisit it, I think, "Oh my god, I'm actually older than almost everybody in this series."
Caitlin 10:39
How old, how old is Treize supposed to be?
Cathy 10:41
He's like 23, or 24.
Kat 10:42
He's 19.
Cathy 10:43
No, Zechs is 19.
Kat 10:44
Oh, Zechs is 19. Right.
Cathy 10:47
I just the idea of giving people who, you know, would have either been in college or just graduate college in my worldview, huge robots.
Kat 10:58
I think the ages of all the characters gets obscured by the anime art style, you know?
Cathy 11:03
Yeah.
Kat 11:03
In a lot of anime fandoms.
Mallory 11:04
And when you're watching this, when you're a kid, you want to see yourself as the protagonist. So it makes sense that, you know, a 17 year old seems like old and cool, and I want to be that person. And then when you're 30, you're like, the 17 year old should not be at war.
Kat 11:23
Relevant is that we definitely watched Evangelion. That was our last series.
Caitlin 11:29
I don't know, I think, I think Heero Yuy is doing fine in war. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be honest, as a 30 year old, I think these kids are much better at war than I would be.
Cathy 11:39
Well, so that's what I find kind of interesting, is that I think this series actually... I don't, I know this wasn't the point but when I rewatched it recently, or just like the first couple of episodes, it seemed, it made a lot of sense, because they were like 15 or 24. Like the series, actually stitches together...
Caitlin 11:58
Yeah.
Cathy 11:58
...really well, because of how young they are, and kind of like the purity of feeling that they have, which I think is
Kat 12:05
Yeah, it is, like
Cathy 12:06
only maybe
Kat 12:07
like that [indistinguishable?]
Cathy 12:07
which I think is like only really, truly possible because I have to think of them as like 15 or 21 or 19 year olds. that is not at all when I took away when I was watching in high school. Right?
Mallory 12:21
Well, I mean, right.
Caitlin 12:22
Part of the ideology of Gundam in general is like trying to restore a form of hope, and youth to, like, young people growing up in Japan, who are the target audience for this, and this idea that, like, you still have the power to change the world, you still have the power to bring about peace in a way that you want, even though you're being manipulated and oppressed by all these crazy adults who make you pilot giant robots. So I think there's a significant, like part of the series is the fact that they are kids who have been recruited into child warfare, and now have to find some way out of that. And like my memory of the series is that even though most of, most of the decisions made are very bad, the kids in general are not making terrible decisions. They're making pretty good decisions.
Kat 13:12
Yeah, the pilots themselves...
Mallory 13:14
[crosstalk] Yeah
Kat 13:14
...are like doing the best they can be doing in that circumstance.
Cathy 13:17
[crosstalk] Exactly, exactly
Kat 13:19
But I think it's sort of interesting, 'cause it's like, to me Gundam Wing is definitely like a fandom era, because I think a lot of stuff exemplifies like...there's like a lot of tropes cycling through it. But also like, the series itself, is so perfectly...like, I think of it as a series that are so perfectly set up for fandom because there's a lot of like, here's my one episode mission, and we have to be at a safe house, I guess. And it's just like, a long interminable war. So there's like, a big, a lot of world building. Yeah, that creates all these spaces that sort of separate from all the political machinations of the series.
Caitlin 13:58
And that's also I think, a lot of what it was meant to be when it was created within the Gundam franchise like it was it was designed to have sort of a BL appeal to girls writing for comic market and that sort of thing. So it had like the setup of five hot guys who you could combine in various forms. And then also like Gundam itself, in general, it's designed to be and a sort of open universe that you can step into at various points, which also facilitates fandom engagement
Mallory 14:28
[crosstalk] literal fandom bait.
Caitlin 14:29
usually in the form, yeah, usually in the form of model collecting, which is like one of the main Gundam forms of fandom which we probably won't talk about too much on the show. But you, you kind of
Kat 14:41
Uh I've definitely built some Gundam models.
Caitlin 14:43
Yeah. Well, you will be the expert on that because I've never touched a Gundam model in my life. But that is like the big thing where you can you can get the model you can construct it, you can learn a little bit more about the, like, the technology and the different like details of the models and stuff like that. And it just gives you like a slight, like Little bit more of these like tiny narratives and that sort of what the fans are consuming rather than an overall plot that makes sense, which is not what Gundam has really.
Kat 15:11
So Gundam [Wing] has like the cool robots but also these hot boys in them.
Caitlin 15:15
That's what I want.
Mallory 15:16
I mean Well, that's exactly what I want to show right now. So it sounds perfect?
Kat 15:21
Honestly, yeah.
Mallory 15:23
I think Evangelion, sort of, because, Kat, you and I just finished -- or are almost finished with -- Neon Genesis Evangelion [Kat, crosstalk: we haven't done all the movies yet] which was also it was my first time [Cathy, crosstalk: Congratulations, laugh] watching the whole series...wow, grim
Kat 15:40
I also only consumed
Mallory 15:42
[crosstalk] grim
Kat 15:42
[crosstalk] I consumed it like piecemeal too
Mallory 15:44
And depressing
Kat 15:45
It was great.
Mallory 15:46
Very good but um grim.
Kat 15:50
Yeah it's pretty grim.
Cathy 15:52
Yeah, it's interesting to me because I feel like Evangelion doesn't make a lot of sense as a cultural product unless you've consumed a series like Gundam or its ancestors before watching it and yet Evangelion is a lot of people's introduction to giant robot series. So I always find that kind of interesting...
Caitlin 16:13
[crosstalk] It's very weird.
Cathy 16:14
because it, it is subversive, and I think it's subversive even if you don't know the tropes of the giant robot series, of which Gundam is perhaps a prime example. Gundam Wing...
Kat 16:27
So I was gonna ask that and like, would you say, since Evangelion is definitely a like the subversion of this genre, would you say Gundam Wing is like the type of series that it is subverting? Or do you think it's in a different place?
Caitlin 16:41
Gundam Wing and Evangelion came out the same year? Gundam Wing is in some ways a, it's already like a parody form of the original iteration of Gundam.
Kat 16:55
Okay, so it's--is it like, um, like the pure essence of teens-robots.
Caitlin 17:02
It's, it's more like, I feel like by the time of Gundam Wing, the tropes of the original Gundam series are so well set that a lot of things in Gundam Wing to, like the fans who watched the original Gundam or like later Gundams, seemed like a rehash but it was designed to bring in new fans. So something like Zechs Merquis is very clearly like a Char Aznable character. It's just sort of a reiteration of that.
Kat 17:29
So is it like a Star Wars, like a Star Wars sequel?
Caitlin 17:33
Like how the Force Awakens is kind of a rehash of yeah, of A New Hope. And then, but it still brings in a lot of fans and has appealing characters and good aesthetics
Kat 17:43
Right, yeah, I guess I think of them, the two shows, as sort of like, splitting the take on... like, what would you say is like the ur-mecha show?
Cathy 17:52
The original Gundam
Caitlin 17:54
Original Gundam?
Cathy 17:54
Yeah, Mobile Suit Gundam.
Caitlin 17:56
I mean, they're, they're older iterations, there's other robot shows. But I feel like when people think of mecha, the first thing they think of is Mobile Suit Gundam.
Cathy 18:06
So the way like I now think of Gundam Wing after the fact of experiences I have now is that like Gundam Wing is actually a perfect like K-Pop boy band way that they built it and so if you can kind of think of it like that, like it's, you need enough of the tropes and symbols, so that everybody watches it and immediately knows it's a Gundam series.
Cathy 18:30
Like the colors of Wing Gundam are so obviously
Kat 18:34
Yeah.
Cathy 18:34
a Gundam Mecca and you need that you can't get away from it. And same thing with like Zech's having a mask it the reason I think of it as being in in the Kpop industry is like there's a derivative sense. And that's animated by both like Merchandising, and advertising and what audiences want but at the same time, it's like this incredibly pure understanding of what makes us like things? And like when you get that when you really get it, like, it doesn't matter how like, quote, unquote manipulative or exploitative it can seem like you love it. And that's enough, right to make it like a thing that we all want to keep coming back to.
Mallory 19:12
And there's basically like, an archetype right? In all of the different characters like you have the more
Kat 19:18
Yeah, you have the serious one.
Mallory 19:20
That's what I was thinking.
Kat 19:21
Like, the goofy one.
Mallory 19:23
Yeah, the goofy one, the sort of mess
Kat 19:25
the ugly one,
Mallory 19:26
like really cute one.
Kat 19:29
Yeah, that's why I was thinking American boy bands cuz they all have to have like a type of heartthrob. Yeah, I'm a bad boy. I love death.
Caitlin 19:38
One of them's, one of them's a rapper.
Kat 19:40
Okay, so we talked a little bit about how we got into it. We talked a little bit about fandoms. And we touched on pairings, do we want to go into pairings at all? Or like our fave characters, or who we think our fave characters will be Before this rewatch?
Cathy 19:54
You know before we do that--Mallory, can you try to tell us what you think this series is about? I'm actually really curious, like before you do a complete viewing, like what? what is what is your understanding of what happens in Gundam Wing?
Mallory 20:08
Um, there's a long interminable war. These boys are recruited by some shadowy government whatever. And they're piloting these mecha. Uugh, I just remember Duo being really annoying.
Caitlin 20:28
[loud gasp] [laughter] [crosstalk] Oh my god.
Mallory 20:29
I mean, not annoying, like, being sort of...
Kat 20:32
Wow.
Mallory 20:33
...the one the pushy one like, he's the challenging one to Heero's "I'm serious and dour." Literally, I have the most broad strokes impressions of what this show is. I just know it looked really fucking cool every time I saw it in, like, a commercial and couldn't watch it.
Cathy 20:55
Fascinating.
Caitlin 20:57
Honestly, even having seen Gundam Wing, I'm not sure I could explain it much better. I don't remember who recruited them.
Mallory 21:03
Okay. Okay, that does make me feel better. Because I was like, Oh, I don't? Do I actually know what the show is? What am I getting myself into?
Caitlin 21:14
There's there's a lot of weird politics.
Mallory 21:17
Well, I'm really excited for that. And I don't mean that sarcastically. Like, I'm really excited to, to see what this world is like, because I remember, like images or impressions. But everything is like out of context. So it'll be cool to see what that context is. Like deja vu? Oh, I remember that. I've seen that in AMV.
Kat 21:48
I remember this from fics that just rewrite scenes from this show.
Mallory 21:55
Yeah, like, what do I know? What do I know of Gundam that is from fanfic only, or is actual canon? I'm curious to figure out.
Kat 22:10
I think everyone's a lot less obnoxious in canon.
Caitlin 22:14
That's true.
Mallory 22:15
Okay, okay.
Caitlin 22:16
This was a this was a really good fandom for the the fandom phenomenon of, you take a character's most, like, annoying trait, and you emphasize it like times 10 in your fanfic.
Cathy 22:28
Yes.
Kat 22:28
Yeah
Caitlin 22:28
Just so everybody knows you know what that character is like.
Kat 22:31
Heero's gonna threaten to kill everybody all the time, constantly.
Caitlin 22:34
"Omae o korosu."
Cathy 22:36
[laughing crosstalk] And so, it's funny that you guys mentioned safe houses, because actually, there are very few safe houses in the original series. In fact, I think there's like maybe one or two scenes ever, where they are all in a safe house provided by one of their allies. And it's a really fascinating trope, because it like pervades the fanfic? But I remember, that I remember was like a big deal, like, I went back and I was like, actually, these people spend very little downtime with each other in the actual series and I find that fascinating.
Kat 23:12
Right? So you have to fill it all in.
Mallory 23:13
Oh, wait, what?
Caitlin 23:14
They actually barely know each other.
Cathy 23:16
Yeah, they truly barely know each other. [crosstalk]
Mallory 23:18
Wait. Oh no, I thought, I thought this was going to be like..
Kat 23:23
[crosstalk] They actually never interact.
Mallory 23:24
we're going to get together and become like a team
Caitlin 23:26
No, no.
Cathy 23:26
Absolutely not,
Caitlin 23:27
They don't fight together; It's 50 episodes of them not interacting.
Cathy 23:31
They, they literally have like, they like, there's probably one or two scenes in which all five of them are on the same battlefield at the same time. And almost every single one of those scenes involves them fighting with each other because like,
Kat 23:44
[crosstalk]Oh, yeah, they fight each other alone.
Cathy 23:45
What's going on? And this was the thing that I'm sure we'll come back to when I came back to this is when I was rewatching. It in college, I realized that of the two people who spend the most time with each other, it's like Trowa and Heero. Because, yes, it is what arc where they actually go on a road trip, which like,
Kat 24:03
it's great. I wrote a thing
Cathy 24:04
like wiped it from my memory when I was thinking about the series, but it really drives home. You know, again, to your point like what of this series do I did I remember that was just from fanfic, and was just what like the fanfic I read very specifically. And so that was one of the things is like, when you come back as an adult, I was like, all of this stuff is so much more interesting to me because like, I actually, like, I don't get me wrong, I still have shipping opinions. But like, I'm older and I have I I'm famous for this. And Kat knows this. I like don't have OTPs. And I'm like not very good about actually being very loyal to pairings. And so as an adult coming back to this, I was like, Oh, this is actually really interesting because the permutations that fandom came up with also came from, like, non-canon material, because there's a lot of non-canon material, like promotional images that bear no resemblance whatsoever to canon.
Kat 24:54
Okay, I would, I would call those extra canonical, right?
Caitlin 24:58
No, they're, they're extra canonical, they count in some form.
Kat 25:02
Right? 'Cause they're official.
Cathy 25:04
I guess so. I mean, sure, we'll talk about that as time comes but like.
Caitlin 25:08
Listen, a canon is not just the story. It's the entire media mix around it. It's those, it's those things that you can collect. It's the extra manga. It's Frozen Teardrop,
Cathy 25:18
Like, Gundam Wing actually, I think is one of the few franchises I know where like "pair the spares" was a real merchandising tactic.
Kat 25:26
Yes, it was.
Cathy 25:27
And so, so everybody had somebody... gay, I mean, like, not like,
Kat 25:34
Wufei had two!
Cathy 25:35
They had a gay and a straight interest that they were paired up with. And so, um, so it's like, fascinating to me to come back and be like, actually, the canon is a lot more flexible and interesting than I remembered it.
Caitlin 25:49
The canon for me is like, remarkable in its commitment to not officially putting anyone together. Like it was, it's very good at balancing out all of the different pairings that it wants to support.
Mallory 26:01
Mm hmm.
Caitlin 26:02
Um, it's interesting to see which ones got picked up as the main two in fandom, which for me, were always 1x2 and 3x4 dominated the fandom, because they're both like, friendly, maybe talkative, personable guy and like silent, brooding, weirdo,
Kat 26:22
Warrior.
Caitlin 26:22
What fandom loves! Fandom loves that exact dynamic in every form. And so like, what 1, 1 and 3, were never going to work together because they're both silent and brooding. Fandom was never gonna pick that up. It's too It's too boring. It's not dynamic enough, right?
Mallory 26:37
Like, you can't fight. There's no banter,
Cathy 26:39
Which is actually weird, because if you go back and watch the episodes, you'll see it. Heero actually is not that quiet. And Trowa is like a nutcase. And so
Kat 26:48
they're really funny together,
Cathy 26:49
when they are together, they're actually incredibly dynamic in ways that in fact, the canon doesn't establish 1x2, or 3x4 to be. And so it is really fascinating, because I do agree with Caitlin. What came out of this canon is very different from what I think the show gives. And I don't know the show was like, open minded because it wanted to sell as much merch as possible or
Caitlin 27:13
It's that.
Cathy 27:13
Yeah, so I don't know.
Mallory 27:14
Capitalism.
Kat 27:16
I am gonna say I think the show is a 3x4 shipper. Like I think if the show had a pairing, it would be a three, it would be 3x4, like from my recollections of the show
Mallory 27:26
Yeah
Caitlin 27:26
I always thought that was true. But now
Cathy 27:28
I disagree.
Caitlin 27:29
I feel like I'm gonna go into this and and be like, they never
Kat 27:32
Nobody else has a musical interlude.
Cathy 27:34
But the but the thing is, here's Okay, so not to, like, make this too much about the pairing... But I also think 1x2 and 3x4 become established. I put that in quotes early in the series. And so it becomes entrenched and people assume that that's the pairing. But actually, I just remember so strongly when I went back and rewatched that I was like, there really is not that much evidence for Trowa and Quatre's like instantaneous connection because Quatre has that with almost every other pilot, and Trowa's relationship with Heero is like so much more interesting when I come back to it, even though I definitely think they would never work. They would like killing each other and instead as an adult.
Kat 28:12
And I mean, I love that pairing. And like the one thing that came out of my rewatch a million years ago was I wrote a 1x3 fic cuz I really love those episodes, and fandom didn't do anything with it. But I feel like, I feel like Quatre and Trowa are framed slightly differently than all the other potential pairings so that they could be together.
Cathy 28:33
Even up until Endless Waltz like, I really just feel like that that was an early series thing. And then as you go on into the series, that relationship while still important, was not really emphasized any more or less.
Kat 28:47
But I mean, if it, if it comes out of the gate strong, [laughter] like
Caitlin 28:51
That's all that matters
Kat 28:52
I still think that the show was pushing that one if it pitched. Like if it was giving the most evidence to any one of them, I think the early stuff was really like, ~look at this beautiful pairing.~
Caitlin 29:04
So wait do we all want to, maybe to end this episode, we should all go through and predict what are OTP or pseudo OTP for Cathy will be by the end of this rewatch.
Kat 29:16
But also tell me your fave character because that's what I asked like, 15 minutes ago.
Cathy 29:21
Okay, Kat you first.
Kat 29:23
Oh, well, my favorite character has always been Duo Maxwell. And I'm predicting that he's still going to be my fave character. And I am going to stake my flag on Duo/Wufei, 2x5.
Cathy 29:36
Mallory?
Mallory 29:37
I think from what I remember, I really liked Trowa, I thought Heero was too dour, but I also think that I might relate to him a lot more this time around. So I'm going to say that Heero is going to be my favorite character. And I've always liked...see, I don't know about fandom pairings. I want to say it'll be...well it was Duo/Heero before? No, but I've-- I really like Duo/Wufei so, like, I think that's just always gonna be my Gundam Wing ship.
Cathy 30:20
So when I was a kid watching it my favorite was Duo Maxwell, but I know from my prior rewatching, or attempts to rewatch the series, that as an older person coming into the series, I actually like the girls a lot more, like Relena and Dorothy and Noin became my favorite characters and I did not give them the credit they deserved when I was watching it as a younger person.
Cathy 30:41
I also was 1x2 shipper but again, I know that what I came out of the series really shipping was disastrous Heero/Trowa, and then Duo/Wufei.
Caitlin 30:56
Okay, I see we are all Duo/Wufei fans now.
Kat 30:59
[crosstalk] That's why this is going to be the superior Gundam Wing podcast.
Caitlin 31:02
Yeah. I feel like so, my favorite character when I was originally watching as a kid was Quatre. I think probably because like I always liked like, the friendly blondes in boy bands?
Kat 31:13
That go apeshit?
Caitlin 31:15
When I got older, I was more into Duo and Duo is was probably still my favorite character. I was into Duo/Wufei for a long time. I just think that they are funny together and terrible. And I actually really like Wufei a lot. I sort of admire that fake honor sort of thing. But I, since everybody said Duo/Wufei, I feel like I should say something else, which is that I think that I will get more into 3x4 again after this rewatch, because it's a comforting pairing, in some ways. It's a return. And we're all very full of anxiety right now. [laughter] And so we just need Quatre and stupid, crazy Trowa, you know, having their pure love connection that fandom imagined for them from the beginning.
Kat 32:02
It's real.
Mallory 32:03
I look forward to it.
Cathy 32:04
I do too. I also look forward to hating Treize because that's what happened the last time I rewatched this. He's such a fuck boy.
Kat 32:12
I'm excited to love Dorothy and Relena.
Cathy 32:14
My god, they're so good. Yeah, they're so good. That's what I should have said is my favorite pairing.
Kat 32:20
Fandom definitely ruined me for a little bit, like, "urgh, Relena!"
Caitlin 32:24
When I was a kid, part of the appeal of Gundam Wing fandom was in some ways that it was so sexist, and so I could like act out my own internalized misogyny at the time. And so like, I like I was definitely participating in that of like a group breaking up the boys, whatever. And then in later iterations, I like love Relena. So.
Kat 32:45
Yeah, she was just such an easy reason for them to get together, right? For 1x2, but in the show, she's way more than a plot device. So that was kind of frustrating.
Caitlin 32:56
In the show, she's easily the most one of the most interesting and active characters for sure.
Kat 33:02
As podcast Daddy, I declare Episode Zero officially over. Thank you everyone for your time and catch us in two weeks with Episode One: The boy whose wings killed adolescence.
Caitlin 33:16
Byeeee [laughter]
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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#TAYLOR SWIFT APPRECIATION LIFE
PART 1 - Self Titled
Buckle up, ladies and gentleworms: We'll be spending the week leading up to the release of Lover looking back over the history with Our Lady and Savior Taylor Swift. This is very much inspired by the lovely people at @stateofswiftpod (which if you haven't listened to, you NEED TO - this trio is a DELIGHT) and is going to basically be my own lonely solo version of what they do.
SO ANYWAY.
First stop on our journey is Taylor's self titled album. Get comfy, get a snack, maybe a @taylorswift themed drink.... and get in, losers, we're going swiftie.
1. Tim McGraw
Listen, I gotta be honest. This song has never been among my list of of Top Taylor Songs, not even when this was the only album of tracks of hers. Don't get me wrong, I don't DISLIKE this song. There's some great lines in it ("a month of tears and thanking god that you weren't here to see my like that" does get me every time), some great metaphorical connections (“when you think happiness, I hope you think that little black dress” is my favorite) and I do think she delivers a good vocal performance on it. There’s a lot of cool melodic choices in the second half that I’m into. Overall.... not my favorite. We’ll get to that.
2. Picture To Burn
Listen, anyone who says Picture to Burn is anything less than a BANGER can physically fight me in the Denny's parking lot. I have a VIVID memory of the first time I ever heard this song: 13 years old, in the back of my mom's car, with my portable CD player and headphones, feeling like the ultimate badass. Being just shocked in a 'ooooooOOOOOHHHHH' kinda way when I heard That Line in the original version's first prechorus. (you won’t find that on spotify, kids) The second verse is one of my favorite things, as well as that little bridgey bit. The guitar hits are A++. The track as a whole is a great example of what young vindictive heartbreak looks like. This was the track where I fell in love with the angry heartbroken version of Taylor - but like. Baby Angry Heartbroken Taylor.
3. Teardrops On My Guitar
There is something so visceral about the concept of this track to me. That concept of teardrops on a guitar and being in love with someone who's in love with someone else and that one line about hoping that someone else knows just how lucky they are to have the person you're in love with? Damn. --And speaking of that! Another line you can't find on spotify, the original version of this song! "I laugh 'cause it's so damn funny" is such a raw lyric for debut Taylor, and honestly I'm sad that it's been edited out.
Bonus commentary: The pop version of this song, you guys. That electric guitar chord ring at the beginning is ICONIC. The driving drums! That little fiddle lick between the one chorus and the bridge! The pop version is the one that gives me goosebumps.
4. A Place in this World
This song is such a good track to have on this album. I love the little peek into what it's like to be not only Taylor herself but also, I think, any young teenage girl, trying to figure things out. It's a nice change of pace and a good thing to throw back at people who say that Taylor only ever wrote about relationships or whatever. I think my favorite line is that bit at the end of the first verse: "Even though I'm not the only one who feels the way I do..." because that line is such a good representation of what it's like to be about that age and feeling like a hot mess and being told that you're not the only one. Like yes! I know! I'm not ACTUALLY alone! but it feels like it! Let me wallow for half a second! - Taylor does a great job portraying that feeling, and I think this is a good vocal from her as well, with some cool melodic variance in a couple spots later in the song.
5. Cold As You
Dang, man, okay, listen. Cold as You. This song. The build, the softness at the beginning, the way the other instruments come in leading up to the chorus. The craftsmanship on some of the lyrics, like “a mess of a dreamer with the nerve to adore you” or “every smile you fake is so condescending”.
I think my favorite line, though, is "I start a fight because I need to feel something" because. Wow. That line is powerful and honestly it kind of hurts, especially coming from a 16 year old Taylor. Ouch. The other thing I love about this is where the instrumentation drops out in the last prechorus, going back down to just the piano and her voice - there's a quality to her voice there that just. Oof. (I also love the change to the lyrics in the last chorus, and the change in delivery. I love me a change in delivery, but more on that later)
6. The Outside
This song is hardcore #relatable. If you've never felt like you were on the outside of everything and hated it to pieces, you are the blessed among humanity. I love her delivery on the chorus, the timing and inflection she uses. That final line of the chorus “i’ve been a lot of lonely places, i’ve never been on the outside” is so evocative of what it’s like the first time you feel genuinely excluded from your social scene.
I also learned (from the lovely people at the State of Swift podcast!) that this is a song that she wrote when she was like. Not even a teenager yet. Which just blows my mind. I don't know how much tweaking it received before going on the album, but still. Even if 12 year old Taylor only wrote the bare bones of what it became, that's incredible.
7. Tied Together with a Smile
Somewhere out there on the internet there's a video of me playing this song on my porch at about 15 years old, carefully framed so that my face is not visible. It's.... about what you'd expect from a 15 year old amateur.
I'll admit that this is also not way up there on my hierarchy of favorites on this album (not that such a thing exists in any concrete way). There's something about the intro, whatever that instrument is, that kind of grates on me, and there's a few lyrical things that don't land for me like I feel like they could. There's also just a few too many memories tied to this song that make it hit me in a lot of uncomfortable ways.
I do really love her voice in the final chorus though, with the stripped down instrumental behind her in the beginning. The vocal run she does in the outro is also BEAUTIFUL and really fun to sing along to on the rare occasions I listen to this song all the way through.
8. Stay Beautiful
This is such a feel good song. I love it. The descriptions! “He smiles, it’s like the radio” WHAT A LINE. That paints such a picture and elicits such intense emotion - it’s something I really can’t describe properly with any other words.
I can’t help but just smile through this entire song. It’s so sweet and so pretty and there’s just something about it that I can’t help but love. I like the walking guitar in the chorus, and the tiny little solo in the turnaround. The message of the bridge is great - even if nothing ever comes from it (and I don’t think anything ever did, irl) at least this person you’re so fond of will know what you think of them. You hope that it doesn't end there, but even if it does...
I dunno, this song is just super heartwarming to me. It’s light and happy and it has a lot of the Things Early Taylor Does that appeal the most to me. I love it.
9. Should've Said No
Okay guys, listen. Despite my deep love for certain tracks on this album, I really think this one is my favorite. It edges out all the others by a relatively narrow margin, but it still does it. And of course there's a billion and one reasons why that's the case just from the album track (the drums! the fiddle! the harmonies! that high note!), but that's not what I really want to talk about here.
The 2008 ACM Awards performance of this song is one of the greatest things I've ever seen, and it needs to be talked about. Admittedly, it's a very Early Live Taylor vocal, but I would defy any of you who saw that performance to tell me that it wasn't a ride from start to finish the first time (and the second time and the third and-- I've watched this a lot ok)
That lowkey wtf moment when she's just on the stage with a guitar in jeans and a hoodie. The breakaway into the dress, and the little microphone lean and the smug face immediately after it.
And then. The final chorus.
I would sell my SOUL to hear Taylor sing that version of this song with her current vocal ability. The change in the melody and delivery gives me chills every single time. That ascending bend on "home" is incredible, and the ache in ‘would get back to me’.
If you haven't seen that performance, you NEED TO. Go find it, it's on youtube, I'll wait.
10. Mary's Song (Oh My My My)
Listen. She’s a cute little number. I love the image of a woman telling the story of this relationship that’s been building since forever - admit it, we’re all suckers for the friends-to-lovers trope, aren’t we?
It feels very nostalgic, very classic - it reminds me of a lot of more traditional country songs. When I listen to it and picture what’s happening in the lyrics, it’s all sepia toned and older style projector film. There’s a warm, coming-home kind of feeling that’s tied to this song for me, though that might have something to do with being raised on 90s country music.
I don’t have any particularly strong feelings about this (except for how my friend attached this song to TWO DIFFERENT FICTIONAL SHIPS and ruined my life) but I like it. I think it belongs on the album. It’s almost tooth-rottingly sweet, but it earns its place.
11. Our Song
Ahhhhh, Our Song. This song will never not have a special place in my heart - I've been playing guitar since I was about 15, and this was the first song I learned to play. This track is why I say that Taylor is the Reason I Play Guitar.
There’s something so cute and first-relationship-slash-coming-of-age-teen-movie about the idea of just grabbing whatever’s nearby to write something down. There’s another iconic fiddle bit at the beginning. It’s endearingly twangy country. Taylor makes some fantastic vocal choices that I think really stand out in a nice way. I love the metaphorical quality of using all these non-musical sounds and non-auditory concepts to build a couple’s song, and I’m a complete sucker for the line “our song is the way you laugh”. Gets me every time.
And now... The Bonus Tracks.
12. I'm Only Me When I'm With You
This track is EASILY my favorite of the bonus tracks on this album. I love this song so much. It’s a BANGER and once again, if you disagree you can FIGHT ME. I don’t know about anyone else, nor do I know if there’s any kind of official statement about this, but this song has always read to me as platonic, even familial. It could be read as slightly codependent, granted, but I think it’s cute. the music video I like that it’s like... almost like a baby version of the Taylor Swift we now know and love. The beat and the instrumentation feels almost refreshing after listening to most of the songs on this album proper - to be honestly I’m a little salty that it got pushed off to the deluxe version. And of course, there’s an outstanding fiddle piece in the post-chorus, and if you’ve picked up anything from this post so far it should be that I have a deep, deep love for a good fiddle part.
13. Invisible
Oof. OOF. This aching unrequited love ballad. It’s like the softer version of Teardrops On My Guitar, and I’m here for it. She does some super cool melodic things, and I love the way her voice soars in the bridge, and the way it feels like she kind of folds down into herself when it drops down to the prechorus. The ache in “let me want you” and the way it just sort of hangs there like a reaching hand before dropping back into the chorus one last time, and then circling back around to the opening line, finishing with that classic rising steel guitar. It’s just *chef hand kiss*
14. A Perfectly Good Heart
It’s interesting to me that the bonus tracks are literally in order for how much I like them. I don’t have anything against this song, but it’s not one of my favorites. I don’t have a lot to say about it, honestly - I think it’s a solid enough track, but I can definitely see why it was relegated to bonus track territory. And I have to admit, the line “it’s not unbroken anymore” feels a little to me like a reach to put the sentiment in enough syllables to fit the melody. (No shade, there are far worse examples of that in pop music.) The harmony on the end of that line is pretty fantastic though, and the mandolin in the breakdown sits in very nicely.
And with that, we’ve made it to the end of the album. It’s wild to go back and look at the very beginnings with Taylor, given that I’ve been playing the new tracks on repeat for weeks at this point. I’m looking forward to reliving the rest of the journey from this beginning to where we are today.
Next up: Fearless
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Connor’s Diner
Characters: Reader, people in a diner in a podunk town, Leviathan Dean and Leviathan Sam
Pairing: Dean x Reader (but Dean is not really in this fic. Confusing maybe, less confusing when you read. All will be revealed. ;) )
Beta: @raspberrymama
Word Count: 3,590
A/N: This was written for @demondeanismybaby for the Which One Are You Challenge with Leviathan Dean with the prompt, “In his heart, he thinks they’re almost as good as sex.” A bit of a rewrite of a certain scene in “Slash Fiction.” Light smut, sexy, a bit creepy, violence, minor character death, reader in jeopardy and it ends on a cliffhanger. #notsorry. I don’t foresee a second part. If an idea comes to mind I’ll make a second part. No promises my darlings.
Also on AO3
Leviathan Dean picked up the menu frowning at the food choices available. They all sounded unappetizing, at least to a Leviathan.
“How can they subsist on this food constantly?” he asked his second-in-command angrily.
Leviathan Sam simply shrugged. “They’re human. You can’t expect much from them. Idiots the lot of them. Of course, their food choices would be just as idiotic.
“Too bad the menu doesn’t feature humans with cheese sauce.”
“That sounds delicious. That would hit the spot.”
“Wouldn’t it just?” Dean offered. He winked at the waitress suppressing the need to vomit. “Dean is always so flirty. He thinks with his cock.”
“And his stomach,” Leviathan Sam added humorlessly. “Oh look his favorite, a burger.”
“In his heart, he thinks they’re almost as good as sex,” Leviathan Dean says with disdain.
“Better than sex? That’s quite a statement. Humans think quite highly of that activity.”
“Yes they do, don’t they? Sticking body parts in someone sounds deplorable, doesn't it? And seedy. Not to mention messy. However, humans taste good enough to eat.”
“So why not eat them?” Leviathan Sam offered.
Leviathan Dean smiled back at him. “As much as I’d love to shoot half of the insignificant humans and eat the rest, we’re here on orders. We have to do everything by the book. They have to die at the right time.”
“Yeah, lest Dick makes us eat ourselves.”
“Think about how wrong that sentence sounds.”
“You’re more like Dean with each passing second.”
“Good. That’s the point isn’t it, ‘baby brother?’”
“You’re a riot. You know that?”
“Our leader choose to be a Dick.”
Leviathan Sam gave him bitchface.
“You learned Sam well, very good use of... what’s the word he uses.. “bitchface.”
The waitress came over with a pad, biting her lip as she looked over at Dean. Her voice sounded like honey and her smile was genuine and flirty. She pushed up her breasts shamelessly; hoping for tips maybe or just for a good fuck, more likely. Dean smirked at her, looking her up and down. Maybe if he really wanted to pretend to be Dean, he should experience what it was like, the full experience.
“You know I’m having a hard time deciding. I had my eye on a burger but here I am, looking at you baby. And I think I wanna have you instead.”
Leviathan Sam choked on his water. It was clearly too good of a comment. So very unlike a Leviathan.
Leviathan Dean knew how to act. He had studied Dean for a long time and he was going to commit to his role flawlessly. He was hoping that when he was done, Dick would reward him for his service. All he wanted was a bigger slice of the pie. He wanted to be Dick’s right hand. So in the grand scheme of things, he could fuck a waitress to get there.
The waitress chuckled, lust present in her eyes. He gave her a panty-dropping smirk.
The waitress was happily shocked and excited. She was breathing hard, her tongue diving out of her mouth to lick her lip suggestively. Dean slowly stood up, towering over her. He spoke over his shoulder to his “brother,” all the while staring at the waitress. “Hey Sammy, what do you want?”
“I’ll have a Cobb salad.”
Dean smirked at Sam’s order. “My brother likes to eat healthy. Now, me, well I don’t have the same inclination. I like things that are bad for me.” He reached out and tangled his finger in one of the waitress’s locks. “I don’t play by the rules, sweetheart.”
The waitress gasped as Leviathan Dean stepped closer. “You have our orders. Go be a good girl and put them in. Then show me the utility closet and I’ll happily fuck you good and proper. That’s what you want; right, doll?”
The waitress nodded. Leviathan Dean moved closer to the waitress, stopping right before he kissed her. He leaned forward and put his nose in her neck and then in her hair. He took a good sniff and then disconnected. “You smell good enough to eat.”
The waitress thought nothing of that comment, nor did she look over at Sam. If she had, she would have seen the creepiest of smiles. The waitress smiled before rushing off to get the order in quickly but Leviathan Dean stopped her. He held onto her upper arm, tightly pushing her into his chest. He stared intently at her, making her knees go weak. “I play fast and rough. No buildup. No morning after. Still in?”
“Utility closet in five minutes, by the bathroom,” she said in a labored breath.
“Good girl,” he said with a deep chuckle.
He waited until the waitress was out of sight to take a quick seat opposite Leviathan Sam.
“You’re really going to -.”
“Sample the goods of the man I’m copying. Hell yes, Sammy. Gotta see what he loves about this. Excuse me. Hold down the fort will ya?”
“Yeah, sure,” Leviathan Sam offered in disgust.
The waitress ran back from the kitchen to the utility closet to find Dean already there. He grabbed her by her uniform and dragged her in.
“I’m Anne by the way.”
“Dean, but-”
“One-time, fast, rough, no names. Hey, not my first rodeo, cowboy. Show me what you got.”
Humans always so damn needy. She does smell fantastic. He started unzipping his pants. He didn’t miss the way her face lit up when she saw his cock. Humans, such deplorable little sex maniacs. Gaga for a piece of meat on a human body. Please.
She took off her underwear in one fluid movement. Dean didn’t miss a beat, thrusting into her in one go.
Well, that’s an interesting feeling. Warm, so warm and wet. Not a bad feeling having her walls wrapping around my cock. Hmm…. His eyes grew dark as he got into it. Each thrust was rough nearly knocking over everything on the shelves beside them.
That’s right human. Take all I have to give you. Fuck yes. He kept his hands on her hips pushing her into the wall with each brutal thrust of his hips. Yes. How pliant humans are. They just lie there. How desperate she is for my cock. This isn’t terrible. I can see why Dean likes it.
She was trying to be quiet while loving every second of it.
Humans and their ideas of impropriety. Scream if you want to doll. You like how rough I am. How I’m fucking you into this wall. I do too. Don’t tell my partner. No need for anyone to know I’m enjoying myself. You’ll be my dirty little secret. The sex toy of a powerful Leviathan. Does she want me to say these things aloud or concentrate on fucking her? So very confusing.
Dean was focusing on the thrust and the feel of his cock inside her wet pussy, on the slight drag in and out. It made a squelching sound that he didn’t like but the feeling he had to admit was a pleasurable one. There was a build up of pleasure happening of great intensity.
I could do without that nauseating squelching sound. Is that because she’s too wet? Human biology. So strange. I can feel something coming. Something powerfully good.
He looked over at his paramour and she seemed to be lost in pleasure. The faces they make when they’re about to come. Laughable at best.
“I’m about to come.”
Why the fuck is she telling me? Come then? I’m trying to come too. Isn’t that the point?
“Okay,” Leviathan Dean answered a bit confused.
She screamed. Huh that good that she couldn’t keep quiet. Ha. I’m not even human darling.
He groaned with pleasure nipping her neck trying not to eat her. She did smell good, better after having sex. Who would have guessed? Gotta say the sensation of coming is weird, just releasing inside her. Feels nice and complete, like I accomplished an important mission or I ate someone for Dick. And the high it lasts for only a short time. How curious. I can see why he keeps sleeping around.
The waitress got dressed fast as did Dean.
“Well that was fun,” Leviathan Dean said in an effort to quell the awkwardness. He was unsure what humans typically said after or rather what Dean usually said. Judging by the smile on the waitress's face, she took his statement well.
“It was fun. Call me,” she said with a wink.
Dean pocketed the number she handed him with a smirk. By the time he walked back to the booth, their food was already there. For a human, she sure moved fast.
“How was it?” Leviathan Sam asked with a smirk.
“It takes some getting to used. But it’s not terrible.” Leviathan Dean replied before taking a bite of the burger and grimacing at the horrible taste. “Can’t say the same for the burger. This is disgusting,” he stated, as he threw it back onto his plate.
Leviathan Sam scoffs and pushes his own plate away. “Dead plants with creamy goo, it’s like eating self-righteousness. I mean, you tell me which is worse.”
A part of Dean wanted to decompress about this new experience, sex as the humans call it, but his partner would never understand and even worse, he might even look at Leviathan Dean differently. It was easier to fall into the conversation Sam wanted, to complain about the job like they always did. So he liked sex, so what? It didn’t matter, he was a Leviathan and he had a job to do. He better focus on that now.
“I mean honestly, I just...you know what? I can’t stand this guy. Talk about a hero complex. And he doesn't have relationships. No, he has applications for sainthood. Oh, and he thinks he’s funny. He thinks he’s a damn comedian.”
“Who has two thumbs and full-blown bats in the belfry?”
Dean points to Sam with his thumb.
“I’m serious. It’s nothing but Satan-vision on the inside. I mean, how he’s walking around in a jacket with detachable arms is beyond me.You know I had a brother with this many issues once.”
“Yeah?” Dean asked.
“Know what I did?” Sam asked. After a beat, he added, “I ate him.”
“Of course you did,” Dean confirmed, acknowledging that was the only sensible thing to be done for their kind.
“How are these guys even a threat?”
“Boss says they gotta go, they gotta go,” Dean reiterated.
“Right. Idea.”
Dean quirks his eyebrows.
“You wanna trade?” Sam asked hopefully.
Dean frowned in confusion at the question.
“I mean, I’ll take chuckles over schizo.”
Dean looked down. “No, I like this one’s hair better. You can stay in the big one.”
Sam stated a bit dejectedly, “All right. In that case, let’s turn up the heat. The sooner I get out of this and into something more stable, the better.”
Just at that moment, you came stumbling into the diner speaking into your phone. “Are you kidding me? A werewolf in a college?” you whispered as you entered Connor’s Diner in the middle of nowhere. You didn't look around, you kept your head down, hat around your face as you stood waiting for a server to show you to a seat. “Everything’s crazy. We got Leviathans and now werewolves in colleges?”
“How far are you away?” Dean inquired.
“About a day’s drive. I’m just going to get some grub at a greasy diner. I’ll bring you back a slice of pie.”
Dean chuckled.
“How are you baby? I miss you.”
“Miss you too honey. Sam and I are good. Just a little worried about the Leviathans.”
“So am I. They’re quite the big bad and we don’t know how to kill them. I had to help my bestie with that hunt.
“I know. Not mad. I’m happy you helped her out. You’re an amazing hunter with such a big heart. But I miss you.
“I can’t wait to see you, baby,” you stated.
“Neither can I. Love you,” Dean confessed.
“Love you more.”
Dean chuckled. “ Be careful.”
“Always. You too.”
“Always.”
The second you ended the phone call, Anne ran over to you smiling, ready to show you to a seat. You walked behind her slowly peeling off your hat and fixing your hair. No sense in looking bad even if you had a boyfriend. You slowly pulled your eyes up from the ground just at the same second that Leviathan Sam turned around to tap “his brother.”
You met his gaze and you stopped walking, staring at him. You tried to reach into your bag for a weapon when Dean jumped off his seat and nearly shoved you into the booth.
Anne gave you all a very confused stare.
“Dean. Sam,” you said utterly confused.
“I just got off the phone with you -.”
“You know how I love to surprise you, baby.” Without another word Dean grabbed you and kissed you passionately. His hand worming around the back of your waist pulling him to you. He smelled the same, felt the same as your hand glided over his muscular abs but something was off. The kiss, while passionate, didn’t have a spark. It felt strangely cold. Like he was going through motions. A learned response. It felt like a show kiss. You disconnected, growing worried in the pit of your stomach. Your hunting instincts telling you to be careful.
You tuned out the whole rest of the diner, not noticing the awkward and dejected look on the waitress's face nor the person looking your way. You just kept staring at Dean. There was a smile on his face but it didn’t reach his eyes. You froze as you watched him inch forward to whisper into your ear, “I love you, baby. You’re the best girlfriend a guy could want.” His words quelled your suspicions until he spoke again a couple of seconds later. “You look good enough to eat.” That one sentence brought the whole house of cards down. The blank stare, the half-felt kiss, no spark, his sudden arrival here. This wasn’t Dean. You knew that with every fiber of your being. But if that were true, then you were beside an unkillable Leviathan in a crowded diner full of witnesses and all you had in your bag was an angel blade. You had a sword in your car but how would you get to your car was the question.
He seemed to sense the shift in atmosphere. He looked over to Sam briefly before his eyes met yours.
Your fear was replaced quickly with anger. “You’re not Dean,” you ground out.
Dean seemed a bit taken aback clearly thinking you were an idiot. He recovered quickly. “Clever girl.”
You glared at him. His hand grabbed your wrist to keep you in place. One finger ran down your wrists. You shivered at the implications while Dean simply smiled back at you. You pushed him out of the way, getting one hand around your purse when he grabbed it away. He shoved things aside looking intently into your purse.
“Well well, aren’t you the little hunter. An angel blade, a demon knife, and a gun. Aww. A+ for effort. You’re cute, you have your looks and you smell fantastic, and taste even better. But come on, kid, even you must know that none of these things could ever hurt me.”
“What do you want?” you inquired.
“Look at you not even missing a beat.”
“I’ve been to Hell. I’ve seen scarier.”
“Have you seen our true form?”
“Wanna know how many monsters I killed? What. Do. You. Want?”
“Well, we were going to kill everyone and keep looking for you while destroying your boyfriend and his brother’s reputations. But as fate would have it, we can do both at the same time. You dear, are a precious commodity that our boss asked to safeguard.”
“Meaning you plan on kidnapping me for leverage.”
“Clever again. You’re making a habit of it.”
“Glad I can amuse you.”
“Oh, I’m sure you can amuse me in other ways as well.”
“Ew.”
“Shall we?” Sam asked, trying to get Dean back on track.
You see them both go for their weapons and start shoving Dean hard on the floor. You take a fork and impale Sam’s hand to the table. You start throwing everything at Dean and Sam as you yell at the patrons, hoping they’ll listen.
“Get out! He has a gun,” you yelled. The waitress and a young couple got out. Score one for the home team.
Dean reacted faster than Sam, as he reached for you but you kneed him in the crotch. Then you dove for Dean’s gun and hit Sam in the face and ran out making a beeline for your car. You knew you only had a limited amount of time so you hoped this would work. Your phone was in your purse so there was no way to call your Dean for help. You were on your own. Your car keys were also in your purse. One of those days. You’d have to break into your own car.
Not wanting to lose any more customers, Dean barricaded everyone in there. Dean rifled through your bag looking for your phone. When he found it, he tossed it at a young boy. Both Sam and Dean whipped out their guns to show everyone they meant business.
“Hey kid, why don’t you fire up the camera on that thing. Hold it up now!” he nearly screamed. The boy shakily held up your phone to record the scene. Dean jumped up on the counter while Sam walked up and down the diner.
You smashed your window and popped the hood, ignoring the loud, annoying car alarm. You heard screams coming from the diner. You wished you could help them all but the only way to really do that was to get a weapon.
Sam cocked his gun and yelled at the patrons, “All right, everybody be cool! This is a robbery!”
The customers screamed again. Dean goes up on the counter, gun raised, as he slowly pointed it around the room. “Nobody moves or I’ll execute every last one of you!” Everyone in the diner held their breath.
You struggled to grab the sword fast enough. It was behind your hunting gear and it was quite heavy. If you only knew you’d be facing Leviathans, you would have left it in the back; easy to get to instead of buried under stuff.
Dean opened fire and started shooting everyone. You gasped as you turned towards the diner, yanking even harder to get the sword loose.
“Hey, keep that up! I didn’t say you could put that down,” Sam yelled at one of the customers. “I want the whole world to know what Sam and Dean Winchester are capable of.” Sam then shot the person next to the young boy holding your phone.
“That all of ’em Dean asks?”
Sam looked into the camera phone. “All but one.”
“Bring him with us.”
“It’s your lucky day kid,” Sam added.
They crouched down, waved and smiled into the camera before walking away. Dean didn’t turn the camera off just yet. He instructed the teen to focus the camera on the ground to better capture the carnage. An audible crunching sound could be heard on the video.
You heard footsteps behind you on the pavement, footsteps coming closer to your car. Your hand wrapped around the hilt of the sword just as Sam’s strong arms grabbed you around the waist, careful not to hurt you. He used just enough force to lift you from the ground. You fought, your legs kicking in the air until they connected with your crappy car. You pushed off from the car and slammed down on the ground knocking the wind out of Sam. The fall made you drop your sword. You quickly picked it up and within a second held it at Sam’s neck, your legs around his waist. You heard clapping and whirled around to see Dean coming towards you both. His dark, rich laughter strangely echoed off the parking lot around you. When Dean spoke, he did so in a commanding tone.
“I wouldn't, precious. You kill my partner... I kill this...how old are you kid?”
“Seventeen.”
“That’s young Y/N. A hunter having the death of a seventeen-year-old on your conscious, aye? What will they say?”
You hesitated. You should kill Sam so at least there’s one less Winchester imposter but could you really bring the death of an innocent? Would Dean kill the kid either way?
“The crippling choice of any hero. The innocent or the villain?”
You looked over at the kid mournfully. “Sorry kid. There’s no way you’re getting out of this alive. They’ll kill you anyway. Gotta end this.” Without any hesitation, you decapitated Leviathan Sam just as Dean killed the boy.
“His death is on your hands.”
“Tell Dick he can go fuck himself. And FYI you were going to kill the boy anyway. Can’t leave any witnesses, right?”
You threw your sword in the air, just as you dove into the car and quickly hot wired it. If you had taken two seconds longer, you would never have made it. You barely got out of there. You floored it driving away from a very angry Leviathan Dean hoping that you could find some way to warn Dean. What a day indeed.
Tagged
Forevers @purgatoan, @killerofthesouth, @charliebradbury1104, @chaos-and-the-calm67, @chelsea072498, @everyday-supernatural-af, @neversatisfiedgirl, @toogardenenthusiast, @winchesterprincessbride, @one-shots-supernatural, @take-me-tonirvana, @hellsmother, @ellen-reincarnated1967, @faegal04, @deals-with-demons, @mamaredd123, @atc74, @hamartiamacguffin, @donnaintx, @love-kittykat21, @impala-dreamer, @evansrogerskitten, @lucifer-in-leather, @hiswickedkitty, @riversong-sam, @rosie-winchester
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@aprofoundbondwithdean, @thing-you-do-with-that-thing, @manawhaat @mrswhozeewhatsis, @dr-dean, @nichelle-my-belle, @theficlibrarium, @bowtiesandapplepie, @winchestersmolder, @leatherwhiskeycoffeeplaid, @thegreatficmaster, @notnaturalanahi, @bkwrm523, @faith-in-dean, @writingbeautifulmen @salvachester, @whispersandwhiskerburn, @impala-dreamer, @samsgoddess, @scorpiongirl1, @for-the-love-of-dean, @mysupernaturalfics, @jelly-beans-and-gstrings, @fiveleaf, @frenchybell, @deansleather, @deandoesthingstome, @curliesallovertheplace, @whywhydoyouwantmetosaymyname, @waywardjoy, @imadeangirl-butimsamcurious, @kayteonline, @supernatural-jackles, @wevegotworktodo, @ilovedean-spn2 , @quiddy-writes, @babypieandwhiskey, @wi-deangirl77, @deantbh, @mysaintsasinner, @chelsea-winchester, @revwinchester, @lucibae-is-dancing-in-hell, @taste-of-dean, @clueless-gold, @deanwinchesterxreader, @melbel45, @winchester-family-buisness, @atwistoffate, @hexparker, @alangel1895, @quiddy-writes, @deanwinchesterforpromqueen. @supernaturalismylife, @pinknerdpanda, @deandoesthingstome, @fandommaniacx, @meganwinchester1999, @winchesterfiesta, @i-dont-know-how-to-write, @babypieandwhiskey, @wayward-mirage , @spn-fan-girl-173, @shelovesallthethings, @revwinchester, @klaineaholic, @salvachester, @leatherwhiskeycoffeeplaid, @jelly-beans-and-gstrings, @thing-you-do-with-that-thing, @sinceriouslyamellpadalecki, @fandommaniacx, @teamfreewillimagines, @deanwinchesterforpromqueen, @castieltrash1, @supernaturallyobsessed, @memariana91, @writingbeautifulmen, @plaidstiel-wormstache, @idreamofhazel, @revwinchester, @supermoonpanda, @ageekchiclife, @i-dont-know-how-to-write, @vintagevalentinexx, @ohwritever, @ruined-by-destiel, @winchester-writes, @thinkwrongways @sammit-janet @bowtiesandapplepie, @itsemmyb, @ezauraemmaline, @matteson-crazed, @castielspahdehrah, @charliesbackbitches, @crzcorgi, @gryffindorable713, @deerlululucy, @walkingencyclopediaoffandom, @mrsjohnsmith, @manawhaat, @growleytria, @thegleegeneration, @samtomydeanwinchester, @sinceriouslyamellpadalecki, @i-never-said-a-pilot, @thewinchestielboys, @supermoonpanda, @sis-tafics, @amaranthinecastiel, @kittenofdoomage, @samanddeanwinchester67, @ferferelli @lilyoflothlorien, @myfand0msandm0re, @ackleslaugh @noisilyyoungpuppy, @fangirling-instead-of-working, @eyes-of-a-disney-princess, @chrisatplay, @kayteonline, @spnsimpleman, @faith-in-dean @for-the-love-of-dean, @mamaimpala, @zanthiasplace, @sleep-silent-angel, @pada-ackles-reads, @thing-you-do-with-that-thing, @gadreelsforbiddenfruit, @trenchcoats-and-bees, @curliesallovertheplace, @jencharlan, @not-so-natural-spn, @skybinx-blog, @thebunkerismyhome, @feelmyroarrrr, @beachy2014, @fandom-book-nerd, @tia58, @sams-little-toy, @sunriserose1023, @saving-things-hunting-family, @winchesterswoonathon, @jotink78, @babypieandwhiskey, @howmanytuesdaysdidyouhave, @supernatural-jackles, @avasmommy224, @angelwingsandsupernaturalthings, @marasficrecs @mysaintsasinner, @chelsea-winchester, @besslincoln-bruh, @wheresthekillswitch, @maraisabellegrey, @notnaturalanahi, @hexparker, @mysaintsasinner @winchestersmolder, @winchester-family-business, @melbelle45, @quiddy-writes @deanwinchesterxreader, @winchester-writes, @chelsea-winchester, @klaineaholic, @revwinchester, @sis-tafics, @girl-with-a-fandom-fettish, @shelovesallthethings, @wheresthekillswitch, @besslincoln-bruh, @idreamofhazel
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since dirkcourse is going on god knows I gotta open my mouth
I’m not trying to vague here cause god knows I hate vagueing but I want to weigh in on the current dirkcourse so here’s this. it’s addressed at all the of the dirk tag and current discourse going around.
(for reference in this post I am defining soft dirk as a dirk who has the narrative/artistic focus more on his softer or gentler traits, his love for his friends or his desperate crush on jake english, instead of his manipulative tendencies or his facade of assholishness or his need to try and be stoic 24/7. it dwells more on his intense feelings for other people and self-sacrificing over perceived elitism or snide condescension, both of which are traits that I feel dirk only plays up as part of his “coolguy” persona. the appearance part is mostly unrelated aside from some stuff about hypermasculinity we’ll get into in a second)
anyway if it’s longtime fandom cred we’re going for, here’s my experience, as someone who’s read homestuck since 2010:
it was impossible to escape abuser dirk.
people posted shit in the dirk and dirkjake tags on the daily reminding you that if you didn’t “acknowledge” how abusive their relationship was, you were an apologist. trying to counter this argument got you angry posts from various people in the group perpetuating that. you got called an apologist. accused of shouting over survivors. in the rare cases that survivors spoke up and asked to please stop getting called apologist for shipping something fucking fictional between teenagers, they were told to stop shouting over minors. they were told they needed to stop defining their lives by their abuse. they were asked why they hadn’t grown up and gotten over it. they had campaigns and crusades and mocking group circlejerks going after them for expressing a view of dirk that didn’t align with popular fanon.
I wouldn’t say this is the popular reading of dirk anymore. but the only reason I’d say that’s true is because the people driving this, the people making sure everyone knew abuser dirk was “canon,” aren’t into homestuck much anymore, aside from one or two of them. but you have to understand, this shit was inescapable. big names in the fandom lexicon, like shelby, treated dirk’s abusiveness as an obvious fact. you couldn’t write dirk meta without either dancing franticallly around the subject or just disclaiming it at the beginning with “I know dirk is an abuser,” even if you didn’t agree with it. if you didn’t do these things, you were guaranteed asks and condescending vague posts or callouts about you disagreeing.
and for that matter, the idea that it’s completely gone away isn’t even true. landofsomethingsomething didn’t even get into homestuck until last year and didn’t start writing fic until post act 7 and still got an ask demanding why she shipped dirkjake, couldn’t she see how unhealthy and bad it was? didn’t she care about the opinions of survivors?
all of this is without touching on how big masculine semi-wolverine dirk was the more popular version in fanart (especially in het, but also in slash) and how usually he looked like a miniature bro, often older than the other characters. this is without talking about how people deliberately read in the worst to everything he said, pointing to his “let’s go raiding” line with jake and shouting about how manipulative that was or him breaking up with jake as proof he was trying to force jake to hook back up with him. this is without touching on how the phrase “strider manpain” became a blanket mocking phrase to make fun of anybody who cared about dirk or dave’s feelings -- complete with mocking anybody who thought dave’s selfie shit was a semi-mental breakdown (which it was) or that dirk sitting on the edge of the roof was him contemplating suicide (which it sort of was, but to be technical, it was more suicide-plus-murder).
artists left homestuck fandom because the discourse wore them out. several artists I personally FOLLOW deleted most of their dirkjake content because they didn’t want to deal with the discourse anymore and they were tired of being called apologist. one artist made a misstep with some of their art and got so bombarded by asks calling them an abuse apologist and rape supporter that they pretty much quit tumblr for weeks. several dirkjakes I know have expressed that during the 2011-2014 (or so, it depends) era they were outright afraid to participate in the fandom. even most of the popular dirkjake content producers (who I’m sure are on the list of “soft dirks”) bought into the dialogue that dirk was abusive. that’s without getting into how dudebros kicked it up, how dudebros talked about that andrew hussie only wrote dirkjake to mock slashers and “prove” to them that slash between two random dudes could never work. that’s without talking about how dudebros figured dirk, such a violent person, could only have black feelings for jake. that’s without talking about how dirk/uu people routinely either gave dirkjakes the runaround for “denying abuse” or talked about how dirk, as a gay dude, was OBVIOUSLY too hardcore and too kinky for a gentle cinnamon roll like jake. (and the “cinnamon roll jake” discourse is something I could write about 5 more posts about.)
it was inescapable.
look, I know fandom is gigantic and what you see depends on the following you curate, but keep in mind that applies both ways. just because you never saw it doesn’t mean it didn’t exist. I’m sure there were corners of fandom where this dialogue wasn’t mainstream and softboy dirk was. but in a lot of the fandom, abusive hypermasculine wolverine sideburns dirk was the only thing we saw. asshole dirk was all we could find because if you didn’t do asshole dirk, you were Problematic.
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