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stereogeekspodcast · 27 days ago

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[Transcript] Season 5, Episode 5. Empire Waist Review

Empire Waist is a teen comedy-drama about loving yourself and your fat body, just the way your are. The Stereo Geeks fell head over heels in love with the empowering and heartfelt film. In this non-spoiler review, Ron and Mon share their thoughts on the film, why a film like Empire Waist is so needed, and what it means to see yourself represented onscreen.

Listen to the episode on Spotify.

Still from Empire Waist.

Ron: Hello and welcome to a new episode of Stereo Geeks. Today, we’re reviewing the young adult comedy-drama, Empire Waist. I’m Ron.

Mon: And I’m Mon.

Ron: This review will not contain any spoilers so feel free to listen and then watch the film. Because you’re going to love it! Empire Waist is written and directed by Claire Ayoub. The film follows Lenore Miller, played by Mia Kaplan, a fat teenager who has been told all her life to shrink herself and be invisible. But when she meets Kayla, played by Jemima Yevu, a fellow student who is proudly fat and fabulous, Lenore’s world is turned upside down, as is her confidence.

Mon: So, I had not even heard of Empire Waist till the team at Kino reached out to me, inviting me to the Digital Premiere of the film. I’ve also not heard of Kino, which is an app for streaming premiere events that include cast chats. It took one quick skim of the synopsis for me to be like, oh yeah, I need to check this out.

Ron: I’ve been looking forward to Empire Waist since I first heard about it from fat activists I follow online. But I didn’t even know this film had already been screening in theatres. The last couple of months have been super busy but where on earth was the marketing? I thought it was going to be out later in the year. If I had missed this film, I would have been really upset. It’s still so rare to see fat characters on screen. To have a film that’s about being fat and taking joy in one’s fat body? I would have hated missing it. I’m so glad Kino reached out to you so we knew this film was available to watch.

Mon: Yeah, me too. I’m wary of high school films because it’s so far in the past for us, but what a lot of films and stories about any demographic gets wrong is that the story and feelings and growth should still feel universal. It should resonate with anyone and everyone watching. Empire Waist certainly does that. The focus may be on these teenagers finding themselves and getting over the hurdles high school, aka the world, throws at them, but their experiences are a microcosm of what we all have faced and do face.

Mon: So, in the film, we’re introduced to Lenore through her closet of hidden clothing – clothing that she’s made. We learn along the way why these clothes are hidden and how important designing is, not only to her, but to the people who are about to be pulled into her orbit.

Ok, let me rephrase that – once Kayla enters Lenore’s world, she’s like the freaking sun pulling people in. Kayla’s amazing. I love this character. But more than that, I love how Jemima Yevu plays the character. She’s loud, rambunctious, funny, sweet. If Yevu does not have this skyrocketing career in comedy and romance, I will be upset!

Ron: Jemima gives Kayla many memorable moments but there’s one that I absolutely adored. A fool tries to bully Kayla about her weight and Kayla does this incredible fake-crying-shocked face and is all astounded that she’s being called ‘fat’. I swear, the number of times I’ve wanted to have this exact reaction when someone comes up to us to talk about our weight. Do people honestly think fat people don’t know they’re fat? Like this fool is the first person to bring it to our attention? Making them feel small by overacting to that degree is exactly what they deserve.

Mon: That’s what I call a power fantasy!

Mon: And I want to talk about Ms Hall, played by Jolene Purdy. I mean, how can you not love this woman? First of all, she’s cute as a button with the best dress sense, but she’s so kind and invested in Lenore’s happiness. But, Ms. Hall is invested in a non-creepy way – she doesn’t push Lenore’s boundaries, she’s there to encourage her and be supportive. I love this character so much.

Ron: Yes! I love Ms Hall. May we all get a Ms Hall in our lives. She’s so understanding and she just wants to build friendships among her students. She’s not at all pushy but she does tell the bullies off. Jolene Purdy was such a delight to watch in this film.

Mon: I gotta say, I can’t believe Mia Kaplan, the main actor (though in reality Jemima Yevu as Kayla is the star of this film), revealed that they’re an extrovert in real life. That does not come across in this film, and that’s down to some superb acting. Kaplan perfectly captures the brokenness of someone who hates themselves and wants to disappear. And you see how Lenore is changing with her voice and smile becoming bigger and more confident. Wow, what a way to carry a film.

Ron: I think a lot of fat people will see themselves in Mia’s performance of Lenore. Kayla is very aspirational – she’s the fat person we’d all like to be, except for one horrible incident near the end of the film. But Lenore is how a lot of us went through life. The dark clothes, head down, no eye contact, introverted, terrified to express ourselves. I’m also surprised that Kaplan revealed they’re an extrovert. They captured introversion perfectly!

Mon: Yep, yep. And this is why you need more than one character representing an entire community in a story. No community is a monolith, and this film shows that.

Ron: Watching Empire Waist made me realise why I had so little interest in teen films when we were teens. There was a dearth of characters who looked like us. So the stories we were being shown had nothing to do with our experiences or journeys. But this film, and excuse me for being corny, it made me feel seen. I heard dialogue in this film that I’ve heard my brain say to itself. I saw character arcs that reflected so much of my lived experience. I went through a journey watching this film that, as a fat person, we go through regularly. Loving yourself, hating yourself, wanting to be thin, accepting that fat is a body type that doesn’t deserve hate.

Mon: I love the central message of the film – about loving oneself as you are. We have dealt with that kind of message in a few other stories, but the people saying them… well, they’re usually these Hollywood types, with conventional shapes and looks. Now, I understand that anybody and everybody can feel insecure in themselves, especially in a society that is created to break you down, but there’s privilege in looking a certain way, and if only those people get to enjoy loving themselves as they are, then the message is still the same – you need to look a certain way to deserve to love yourself.

Ron: Let’s dig into that. Insecurity is built in, especially for women. Societal expectations of how women should look, act, do, and how much space they should take up? We all experience that. But the degrees to which we experience those expectations are wildly different when you inhabit a fat body. So many people in the world are trying so hard to fight against hate but it often feels like fat bodies are still acceptable to hate, to punish, to laugh at. Now, I’m not saying that the world is perfect for everyone else. But fatphobia is accepted, even encouraged, by many people. Even, maybe especially, in the medical community. Somebody who’s thin, or even mid-sized, doesn’t have to fear going to the doctor as much as fat people do. It’s these experiences that make insecurities as a fat woman so different than those experienced by straight-sized or even small-fat people.

Mon: Yes, and the cast mentioned that, especially Jolene Purdy, in the after-screening talk. Purdy has dealt with that bullying, but so has her daughter, from people and the medical community. Fascinating to hear that from someone who is on our screens – I mean, Purdy was in a huge show like WandaVision – yet, she still has to fight for her daughter’s rights as a fat child. Ridiculous.

Ron: Another thing that I want to mention here, and I love how subtly the film addresses it, is that some people are just fat. Fatness is attributed to a moral failing, a lack of discipline, which is why it continues to be a bastion of hate. But human bodies are different. Some people’s bodies are thin, no matter what they eat or how little they exercise. Other bodies are fat, no matter how many small salads they eat or how often they exercise.

Mon: Yes, so it’s super interesting that the two main characters, Lenore and Kayla, who are both fat, mention that they gained a ton of weight as tweens – basically, they hit puberty and got fat. This is so important for people to see and hear. I don’t know what causes this to happen, but puberty, hormones, poly-cystic ovarian syndrome, all that strikes around 11-13. And it strikes female bodies. Nothing one does seems to get the weight off, and nothing keeps it off permanently. It’s a constant struggle, and there’s no shame in giving up, as both Lenore and Kayla do, because you’re doing more damage physically and mentally with the dieting and exercise, than not.

Ron: Lenore and Kayla come from straight-sized families – they’re the only people who are fat in their families. And it’s impossible for their parents to understand their experiences because if you haven’t gone through the world as a fat person, your imagination can’t even begin to fill in the gaps of that existence.

Ron: One of the most interesting subplots in Empire Waist is the mother-daughter relationship. Lenore’s mother, Rachel, played by Missi Pyle, is a thin woman. She’s constantly working out. She has a strict diet and she controls Lenore’s food. As the film progresses, we get to understand where Rachel is coming from with this control – she’s basically doing to Lenore what her mother did to her. Except for Rachel, whatever she tried to do worked. Rachel is thin. She hates working out and diets but it’s worked for her. For Lenore, and so many fat people, it doesn’t work. And for Rachel, that’s not just Lenore’s failure, it’s hers.

Mon: Diet culture, man, the worst. Writer-director Claire Ayoub mentioned at the cast panel after the screening how early dieting leads to a lot of eating disorders for people. That’s what’s unhealthy.

Ron: During the pandemic, I found a few fat podcasts that have really helped me come to terms with fat bodies and loving my body. Sadly, a lot of them have gone off air, but their episodes can still be found. I highly recommend Maintenance Phase, which is still going, but also Fatties Talk Back, a short-lived but excellent podcast about fatness and disability. One of the podcasts that is no longer on air was She’s All Fat. In a later episode, one of the hosts invited her mom to have a frank conversation about dieting when the host was a teenager. And the mother mentioned how she was just trying to adhere to the conventional wisdom of the time to stop her daughter becoming fat. But that caused a lot of pain. Empire Waist captured that very real story through Rachel and Lenore’s relationship.

Ron: I also want to mention the dad character. Rainn Wilson plays Mark, Lenore’s dad. He’s her champion. He’s the reason Lenore loves designing. He doesn’t want to restrict her eating or force her to work out. But he’s also unable to stand up to his wife. For all his love and affection for his daughter, he doesn’t intervene on her behalf. He still wants to be the fun parent – let Rachel be the bad guy. But it’s not a great way for a child to grow up – she’s getting mixed messages.

Mon: One thing I noticed was that the dude characters in this film, they’re kinda cowardly, right? They’re scared to stand up for anything, that was an interesting choice.

Ron: Lenore’s love interest, Charlie, played by Aric Floyd, is probably the only man with a backbone in this film. He makes some mistakes but he never causes hurt.

Mon: Yeah, Charlie’s mistakes are cute – he’s not offensive, he’s just a smitten kid.

Ron: Charlie also isn’t in positions where he has to stand up for Lenore or Kayla or their group. He’s by their side but there’s no active fighting involved. The other men though, when they’re asked to fight for the fat ladies, turn out to be complete disappointments.

Mon: Yeah, totally.

Mon: While watching this film I was thinking about the Rebel Wilson-directed film I watched at TIFF this year, The Deb.

Ron: Yes, I wanted to see how you would compare Empire Waist to The Deb. I haven’t seen that yet.

Mon: I reviewed The Deb at WWAC – there are some similarities between the two. The Deb is also about young adults, bullying, dressing beautifully and loving oneself, but my issue with that film had been that we only had the one plus-sized character; everyone else was really thin or slim. I’d argue that Empire Waist is a step above so many other stories dealing with body positivity because the film intentionally casts multiple fat people as fat characters. I love that about this film. I mean, we meet Lenore in the first scene, but you and I literally gasped out loud when Kayla blasts through the classroom door, because, a) she’s the polar opposite of Lenore’s shy, cowed self, and b) because we weren’t expecting a story about a fat teenager to include… get this, two fat teenagers!

Ron: Yes. Two fat teens in one film? And the Earth’s still spinning? Say it isn’t so! Jokes aside, when Kayla appeared, and yes, we gasped out loud, but how can you not? The confidence. The fabulousness. The beauty. We all wish we could be Kayla. But in all honesty, I wish we’d had a Kayla when we were in school. In a way, as you said while watching this film, we were lucky to have each other. I can’t imagine going through school as the only fat girl.

Mon: When you watch a film like Empire Waist, which has three fat characters wearing a range of amazing clothing and being very different people, and you’re like, wait, why isn’t this the norm? It’s so easy to have these plus-size people in the film. While Lenore and Kayla’s storylines are connected to being fat, their teacher Ms. Hall’s story has nothing to do with her body shape. She’s an amazing person and super-kind, and she just happens to be fat. We should have that all the time.

Ron: We should talk about the clothes. After all, that’s the driving force of this film.

Mon: We should. A lot of them we wouldn’t wear, because there were a lot of dresses on here. But of course, that’s just us. We’re pants people – for the Brits listening, we mean trousers. But the colours and cuts, can’t argue with that. I’m not a fashion person, but we have always always always struggled to find nice clothes to wear, so this film is like a fantasy – your own personal tailor making you amazing clothes to fit your body.

Ron: Yes. Show me a fat person, or a person with a disability who hasn’t struggled to find clothes. I’ve accompanied non-fat friends as they’ve gone shopping and have marveled at their ability to walk into any store to buy clothes. All they have to worry about is the design of the clothes and the price – other than that, the clothing world is their oyster. Us? One store in the entire city. And the prices are through the roof. It’s like living on a different planet.

Ron: Watching Lenore make these beautiful, colourful clothes that perfectly fit her friends’ diverse bodies, it was cathartic. As fat teenagers, our clothing choices mostly were black and baggy, or the alternate choice, brown and baggy. We thought huge denim shirts were a godsend for the longest time! Colourful, figure-hugging clothes? Who could imagine such a thing?

Mon: I’m so glad our wardrobes have improved, but it’s an uphill, and annoyingly expensive, battle to fill our closets, even now.

Mon: I keep trying to dig around for some criticisms of this film, and I’m blanking. Like, I loved Empire Waist so much.

Ron: I tried to put my critical thinking cap on. And I’m usually able to do that, whether I love a film or not. But with Empire Waist, I can’t think of anything I’d change. The dialogue is smooth, hilarious, heart-felt, and real. The chemistry between the cast is believable and enjoyable. I awww-ed so many times seeing Lenore and Kayla’s friendship blossom on screen. I think I finally realise why so many people are uncritical of films. When the majority of films are catering to your lived experience, you don’t need to be critical.

Mon: So true. I’m so glad we got to watch Empire Waist. But this isn’t enough. One movie that’s got hardly any marketing isn’t enough to showcase how important a story about plus-size people, especially women and girls, is. We need more – and we need more fat people in stories that have nothing to do with their fatness. It’s like that one episode of The Mandalorian that had fat people in it, and they weren’t hideous bad guys. I wrote about the importance of that episode for Huffpost, but there hasn’t been much change when it comes to fat representation in sci-fi and fantasy since that episode came out. I’d really love for films and tv to normalize fat bodies, because they exist and live and just go about enjoying life. Show that to people, because that’s the only way to humanize the invisible.

Ron: Go watch Empire Waist. It doesn’t matter what size you are, you’re going to get a lot from this film. But if you’re a fat person, you’re really going to love its message of empowerment and loving yourself just the way you are. Because you’re fat and you’re beautiful.

#stereo geeks #podcast #empire waist #mia kaplan #jemima yevu #film review #fat positivity #fat acceptance

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