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annyankers · 3 years ago

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A goth, an living mlm and that 1 bitch at the club all walk out of the primordial furnace: or, the Old Ones, the Powers, and everyone’s favorite Hellgod are all cousins.

I’m a big fan of the Old Ones and Old Ones accessories. I’m one of the 2.5 people who liked the Jasmine arc (after you know, aggressively skipping thru the cursed Cordelia bits). Season 8 in the comics is, and this is a very professional term, absolutely flamingly awful and built out of piss and evil BUT I find the Seed of Wonder and the lore it brings to the table re: the Old Ones and TPTB interesting.

LET’S GET GARDENING

I will not even begin to get into the nightmare that is Twilight and the bangel content I don’t think even bangel fans like. I will not get into any of that or the plot of season 8 as much as possible, if you want to know about it read the wiki or the comics. I will however explain what the comics say about the origins of the universe and then get into how it connects to other things.

The comics claim that the Seed of Wonder is basically a universal anchor and the source of all magic and creativity in the our universe and our universe is just another in a string or evolution of universes. That when a universe has reached the end of its life so to speak a new one is born and as that old reality crumbles there is a certain amount of leakage from the old into the new. Nothing on how this affects the omniverse but for the sake of my sanity and yours I will say that our universe like 1 save file of Spore and the other universes and dimensions are other saves and maybe even games entirely. Who knows. But this is what we get from Giles over several of the most cursed pages in all of comics I’ve ever seen. And the theory is confirmed again in a less cursed page by Spike.

“The world came from the Seed. It was all demons and horrors, then. Probably spillover from some other, even less pleasant dimension. The Seed brought it forth... And the seed kept it here. Kept the warring nasties and the bubbling magical energies from seeping back into the old dimension, wherever that was. Either the Earth was an improvement, a step up, or it was a ghetto. Either way it was on it’s own. The Seed, the source of all that magic, was the only thing powerful enough to keep it from bleeding back. It’s the key.” -- Spike (btvs s8 #37, “Last Gleaming Part 2″)

This is actually reasonably supported by the texts of both shows to an extent. Giles first gives us the first explanation which is fast and dirty in the very beginning of btvs. But establishes that yes, demons came first, people came second.

"This world is older than any of you know. Contrary to popular mythology, it did not begin as a paradise. For untold eons demons walked the Earth. They made it their home, their... their Hell. But in time they lost their purchase on this reality. The way was made for mortal animals, for, for man. All that remains of the old ones are vestiges, certain magicks, certain creatures...” -- Giles (btvs s1e2 “the Harvest”)

Where things get fun for ME personally is with Jasmine and Illyria. Illyria has less to say about the origins of the universe, just stories about how much better (read: horrifying and surrealist) it was but Jasmine does give us something to work with.

“In the beginning, before the time of man, great beings walked the earth. Untold power emanated from all quarters — the seeds of what would come to be known as good and evil. But the shadows stretched and became darkness, and the malevolent among us grew stronger. The Earth became a demon realm. Those of us who had the will to resist left this place, but we remained ever-watchful.” -- Jasmine (ats s4e18 “Shiny Happy people”)

"I was forged in the inferno of creation, vampire. Do you really think a little electricity would destroy me?” -- Jasmine (ats s4e21 “Peace Out”)

She even uses the word “seeds” with I find particularly interesting considering how close ATS Season 4 and BTVS Season 8 are in publication.

What we get that’s important in this section is that the Old Ones and Powers are basically inter-dimensional refugees/beings formed from the afterbirth of our universe. They are the original inhabitants of the universe and the Seed of Wonder is the thing that made this all happen. Okay? Okay.

THE ANATOMY OF ELDRITCH RACES

We return again to the first Jasmine quote because Jasmine is the only Power that we ever interact with as a character and the only other person we can confirm was at the dawn of time with Illyria. Glorificus’ status at that time is unknown. I won’t requote the whole thing here’s just the relevant bit context is above.

“[...] great beings walked the earth. [...] the seeds of what would come to be known as good and evil. But the shadows stretched and became darkness, and the malevolent among us grew stronger. ” -- Jasmine (ats s4e18 “Shiny Happy people”)

The implications of this statement to me read as the Powers and the Old Ones being of the same species/similar species/same OG vibe. Then overtime the divides in ideology and nature/attitude created the schism that gives us the Powers and the Old Ones. Adding into that a bit of my own fun as well because it’s my meta and I can, this is also a much more mutable time and more mutable creatures. This ideological difference could also easily effect them physically. This can be used to take into account why The Mayor becomes a big snake and the pic for the Powers on the btvs wiki is some human looking toga assholes. But we also see if not Jasmine’s true form then something closer to it in ATS season 4 which is just a ball of light with tentacles. The caveat there is that she is also a fallen Power so take it all as you will.

There’s a lot that supports this idea of the Old Ones and Powers just being the White Knight and Edgelord colorswaps of each other honestly. The Powers are nigh-omnipotent and nigh-omniscient, immortal, can induce and alter evolution, grant power to others and all kinda of shit likely but we know literally nothing about them outside of Jasmine and a few scenes through out both series. The Old Ones are not too dissimilar in their capacities. We know more about their individual powers but some common things are that they have some shapeshifting (they’re true size is enormous but they can be as big as they want to be), and the biggie-- The Old Ones cannot actually be destroyed. Which is why the Deeper Well even exists, sure you can “kill” an Old One like Buffy killed the Mayor but their essence cannot be destroyed and will find its way back into being if it wants to and can. Hence why they all get stuffed in sarcophagi and put in tube jail. Even then Illyria escapes, an event which is said to be predestined, implying some omniscience on Illyria’s end. Illyria even survives the creation of the new Seed of Wonder (long story). That asshole basically stood in heart of a supernova and bounced back. The Mayor even pulls himself back together after a while in the comics. These bitches don’t die. The same is said of the Powers.

“The Old Ones are the mightiest of demonkind… primordial forces that cannot truly die. They would not hide, any more than a tsunami or hurricane would.” ―Rupert Giles (it’s on the wiki but they don’t source it thanks fam)

In ATS S1E8 “I Will Remember You” the Powers literally roll back time. Illyria canonically has similar powers of temporal manipulation, taking Angel on a field trip to the fucking Primordial Era once in the comics. All of them can travel inter-dimensionally this is how the Powers even get out of dodge in the first place. Jasmine and Glorificus cannot only because of specifics around their current forms and their functions. Jasmine, a Power, personally manipulated the evolution of a whole species. Maloker, an Old One, created a whole new species out of his blood and a cadaver. It’s also likely that many of the “lesser”, meaning not Old One/primordial demon races on Earth are on some level edited or manufactured species by the Old Ones to suit their purposes.

The full scale of what Glory can do is unknown but basically outside their own powers and the specifics of their embodiments in our dimension, all three have the same power set once they’re on Earth and Nerfed.

I’VE LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT SO I’M JUST GONNA WRAP THIS UP

“All I am is what I am. I lived 7 lives at once. I was power and the ecstasy of death. I was god to a god.” -- Illyria (ats s5e17 “Underneath”)

“I am great and I am beautiful, and when I walk into a room all eyes turn to me, because my name is a holy name, and you will listen!” -- Glorificus (btvs s5e6 “Family”)

“I was forged in the inferno of creation, vampire. Do you really think a little electricity would destroy me?” -- Jasmine (ats s4e21 “Peace Out”)

Basically what I’m saying is that while there’s no evidence that Glorificus was ever one of the Old Ones of our dimension (which is possible, those Old Ones that didn’t get entombed left for other dimensions) she absolutely reads as being at least in the same category or genius of demon/supernatural species. Jasmine and Illyria are just the Mystics and Skeksis from the Dark Crystal or in a less deep cut reference, different eevee evolutions from Pokémon. Same origin, different vibes.

They’re all on a godly level of power that no one else in the buffyverse can really reach. Glorificus is also implied to be immortal like the others (in her true form at least, the Ben Thing complicates stuff) as the war to dump her on our world took thousands of years. We don’t call The Powers or Jasmine or Old Ones or Illyria gods really in the text or in the fandom but they are gods just as much as Glory is. There are cults of worship for the Old Ones, the Master literally leads one.

Past putting forth my theory on the species origins of the Powers, the Old Ones and implying Glory is their weird cousin from Canada I don’t got much to say here that isn’t said honestly so yeah that’s it! If I had more I forgot it! Oh but here’s a fun fact!!!!! This would mean that Buffy’s fought TWO GODS! neat huh!

also Illyria could totally take on both of them in a fight and crush them. Just saying it’s a fact and not up for debate BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

#btvs meta #ats meta #meta #old ones #illyria #jasmine #glorificus #I'M THINKING ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF THE BUFFYVERSE AGAIN #I MAKES MY BRAIN HURT BUT I CAN'T STOP DOING IT!!!!! LIKE POKING A BRUISE!!!!!#when i try and combine this shit with actual real prehistory my brain MELTS so OFC I KEEP TRYING

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twdmusicboxmystery · 4 years ago

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Connections Between Nebraska, the CRM , and TWB

Morning Everyone! I wrote this last week and it jumps around a bit, referencing some old TWD episodes, a TWB episode, an a few other things. The biggest thing here is just making connections and showing that the symbolism is the same across all shows in the franchise. That all of them are connected. And that the writers are telling one, huge story, and have been since very early on.

So, while speaking with a follower last week, I ended up making some interesting connections. Nothing groundbreaking. Bit of a rabbit hole, but not too deep. ;D

But someone sent me something yesterday that said on the walking dead wiki page for the CRM, it says they’re based out of Omaha, NE. Now, they definitely talk about the Omaha location in TWB, but I didn’t remember it saying the CRM is actually based there.

So I went and looked at the wiki page. What it says is that it’s part of the Alliance of the Three, and Omaha is one of their locations. The actual base of the CRM is still unknown.

But I started thinking about TWD 2x08, Nebraska, and decided to go back and watch that episode again. It’s honestly been years since I sat down and watched it beginning to end. I did, and I’ll come back to that in a minute.

(CRM Page HERE.)

A/B Theme

But further down on the page, it also defines the A and B symbolism. It says A = a strong leader who is spirited and willing to fight back. And B = someone who either can’t fight back or won’t.

But it also has a note under the A that says 1x04 of TWB confirmed that A also = Bitten. That seemed a little weird to me. I didn’t remember them confirming that for sure in the episode (we would have talked about it a LOT more). And Jadis called Rick a B, which suggests he’s not bitten. So I was like, Hmm. What’s this about?

Well, I went and rewatched 1x04. I really need only have watched the after-the-credits coda, since I’m fairly certain that’s where they’re getting this. (And of course let’s remember that anyone who is a member can update wiki pages; so this isn’t exactly a confirmation from tptb.)

In the coda, as you will remember, the woman is eating a sandwich and talking into a recorder about test subjects. All of them have an A before their numbers. And the camera pans over all of them, clearly showing bite marks. So, I’m thinking that’s where they’re getting that A = bite from. But to me, that’s not exhaustive evidence. I still think Rick was bitten, and I still think we don’t entirely understand the definition.

I COULD get behind there being two definitions going on here. One that they’ll acknowledge in the show as the actual way the CRM uses the numbers, and one that’s more symbolic that tptb will never confirm or deny. I mean, they did this with the A on Daryl’s shirt at the Sanctuary. And then there’s the A Sam had in 6a, and the A painted on FG’s church. Are we supposed to believe they’ll all be directly linked to the CRM in the show?

So, I’m wondering if the strong fighter vs weak fighter is how the CRM actually uses it. But symbolically, that’s where the bitten/not bitten comes in.

And you may ask, even if that’s the case, why would Jadis call Rick a B? I mean, he’s clearly one who will fight back.

But here’s the thing. When she had him prisoner in his blue skivvies in the yellow storage container, she wrote an A on the outside. So clearly, whatever it means to the CRM, she thinks he’s an A. And obviously he wasn’t bitten then. So either B does mean bitten, or else she’s just lying about him being a strong leader and fighter. Why would she do that?

I’m thinking about Grady. They saved Noah but left his father behind. And I’m thinking that given what we know of Noah’s weakness, his father was probably the stronger fighter. You could also argue that they saw Beth as weak and took her, but when they saw Daryl in their review mirror, they sped off. I think they only take vanilla people they believe they can control. So maybe Jadis said it because otherwise they wouldn’t have taken Rick, and she wanted to save his life. And because he was hurt and weak, his rebelliousness really wouldn’t have come across to the guys in the helicopter.

Boy are they in for a rude awakening!

So yeah, basically it confirmed nothing for me, lol. The symbolism is still clear as mud, no?

Nebraska

As for Nebraska, when I watched, I mostly saw more connections to what we’ve learned recently, about the CRM and the Great Britain theme (Revolutionary War) and such.

So, I wanted to specifically listen to what the guy says about Nebraska. I wondered if he could have ties to the CRM at all. I didn’t see any evidence of that, but there was still kind of an interesting hint. He was talking about how they’d met lots of people, who all had stories about where some community might still be functioning. And one of the things he said was that they met someone who was sending supplies via RAILWAY toward Omaha, NE. And that was it. They went on about Nebraska in a few other lines, so we’re clearly supposed to take note of it.

But what we CAN now confirm via TWB is that one of three communities in the Alliance of Three is in Omaha. So, to me, this was definitely a very early, very subtle CRM clue.

(Clearly from the above pic, which is not mine, other people in the fandom are also putting these things together.)

I’ll give you one more small thing and then the part that gets kinda wild. His shark t-shirt. Um…Stafford Sharks, I think? And I know we’ve talked about this before in the sense of it being a water clue. But the Stafford Sharks thing is a real place that’s based out of the UK. Their website even ends in the “.co.uk” suffix. And of course there’s an 11 on the back of the shirt, which we’ve talked about for a long time and, as has recently been pointed out, MIGHT among other things point to S11.

So for me, we have the 11, a hint at the UK (Julia Ormond’s character is British and represents Cornwallis in the Revolutionary War template), and a subtle reference to where the CRM is, all in one person/conversation. And if this guy, at a broad level, represents the threat of the CRM, I think it’s important that Rick kills him. Yeah, Rick’s totally gonna knock the CRM on it’s butt by the end of the series. (Yay!)

But here’s the other thing I thought about. This episode is THE next episode after Sophia comes out of the barn.

Think about that. 1. Missing girl 2. Girl found 3. Hint at CRM

Just saying.

TWB 1x04

As I said, I rewatched the entire episode and probably didn’t need to, but I was actually glad I did. If I had more time, I do rewatches of literally EVERYTHING right now. Unfortunately, that’s probably not going to happen just yet.

I didn’t nail down the TWB template until the final episode of season 1, so rewatching it, I’m just seeing things I didn’t pick up on before.

This was the episode where they went into the high school to get out of the rain, Silas and Iris dance in the auditorium, etc. And mostly I was focusing on the pairings. We picked up the idea of Iris and Silas being Bethyl proxies when we first watched it. That much was clear. But now that I know Felix = Daryl and Huck = Carol, I saw more.

They divide into 3 groups and what really jumped out at me is that in this scenario, Huck and Faith are together. If anything, because she goes into the CRM at the end, Faith = Beth, right? Which we talked about. So I was thinking about what I’ve said that Daryl and Carol will split up and Carol and Beth might have the first reunion, and kind of watching it through that lens. Nothing huge jumped out at him until…

…the wolf.

Remember the wolf that was building a nest and protecting it’s young and dragging walkers through the halls? I don’t even know how to interpret it in a forecasting way, but since TWD ep 21, where we saw Daryl fixing the bike and hear the wolf howl, it really jumped out at me. The idea that the wolf symbolism will return with Beth and be an important part of the story.

Beyond that, I think we MIGHT be able to take some clues about Daryl’s future arc from this little sequence with Felix and Elton, but nothing huge jumped out at me. So, I’ll probably have to go back again later, maybe during or after S11 as we learn more.

So yeah. As I said, very meandering thoughts and connections today.

Thoughts?

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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frangipanilove · 5 years ago

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THE PHILADELPHIA ANGLE (or Noah’s t-shirt theory part 2)

AMC recently posted a teaser to the Rick Grimes movies, where we see a helicopter fly towards a city skyline. It was eventually revealed that the city in question is Philadelphia, indicating that Philly will play a significant part in the films. Of course, we still know almost nothing about this project, but for now I’m gonna assume that Philadelphia will at least make an appearance in the films.

To me, the new teaser and the Philadelphia connection was extremely interesting, because I’ve been spending some time analyzing a scene that incidentally is the only time in the history of the show (that I can remember) that there has been a Philadelphia reference.

The scene in question is the one from 2x8 “Nebraska” where Hershel has started drinking again and disappears from the farm. Glenn and Rick go after him to try to get him to come back with them. They find him in his favorite bar, and while they’re in there trying to convince him to come back with them, two strangers enter the bar. It is revealed that they have traveled from Philadelphia. A fight breaks out, and the two strangers are eventually killed.

I have been working with that scene for a while, because it contains some really interesting symbolism that I’ve previously discussed here:

https://frangipanilove.tumblr.com/post/183736635005/sirius-and-the-north-star-or-pigs-feet-and-frosty

Although I’ve spent a lot of time analyzing the symbolism in the bar scene from “Nebraska”, I’ve been unsure on how it fits into the larger picture, and also on how it is relevant from a TD perspective. I know the scene is significant, but what does it tell us? How is it relevant to Beth?

The newly released teaser for the films offers a new piece of the puzzle, and I’ll try to explain how below.

A few weeks ago I posted my theory on Noah's t-shirt, where I explain my thought process on how Noah's t-shirt ultimately points to episode 10x2 and/or 10x10. Of course we are all aware of how the «Get Well Soon» clock poster from Beth’s room at Grady possibly points towards these two episodes, and we have seen multiple theories on the significance of that clock poster over the years.

My take on all of that is explained here

https://frangipanilove.tumblr.com/post/185522170650/noahs-t-shirt-theory

The interesting thing about the newly released teaser is that it offers a connection to a sort of continuation of Noah's t-shirt theory, because in the bar scene from 2x8, one of the Philly guys is also wearing a very interesting t-shirt:

Where Noah's t-shirt had the words «one one recording studio» written on it, the Philly dude’s shirt has a picture of a shark as well as the number 11 on it. Apparently the text and the shark refers to a 11-U baseball team from Manahawkin, NJ, and the number 11on the back of the t-shirt is written, well…»one one».

Like, you know…

...like the text on Noah's t-shirt.

What a tremendous coincidence!

Two t-shirts, several seasons apart, both with an animal image as well as the number 11 (or “one one”, if you will).

It’s almost as if there is a theme..

The shark t-shirt refers to a baseball team. This is a huge point, and something I will have to adress in a separate post. But for now, keep in mind all the baseball references around Beth, such as the bat seen by the train tracks from 4x10 “Innmates”, and Glenn picking up a bat while literally saying “Beth” in 5x9 “WHAWGO”.

Further, let’s talk about the shark on the t-shirt. Wanna know where else we saw a whole bunch of sharks in the same scene? In Noah's house, in his brother’s room where we saw Tyreese get bit, causing him to hallucinate. And as we all know, Beth was a part of this hallucination.

Beth, as well as a bunch of sharks.

There’s a picture of a shark on the wall behind Beth, along with a painting of a dog, there’s a shark in the book shelf, there’s a poster of a shark behind Bob, as well as a giant shark’s head coming out of the wall next to him. There’s also a shark-shaped surfboard-like decoration on the wall behind the fabric with polar bears on it. I talked about the polar bear fabric in the Sirius/North Star post that I linked to above. I’ve also talked about the polar bear symbol in several other posts, such as this one

https://frangipanilove.tumblr.com/post/185964198900/fear-the-walking-dead-a-guide-to-understanding

and this one

https://frangipanilove.tumblr.com/post/186222365190/fear-once-again-serves-as-a-guide-to

And next to the polar bear fabric, there’s a clock.

Ah! The clock.

We’ll never tire of talking about clocks, will we? Take a good look at the clock from Tyreese’s hallucination. Beth is staring at this clock in the picture above, so it must be important.

The hands point to the numbers “5″ and “10″. To be fair, one could argue that the hands point to the “5″ and the “9″, which would make sense, as this is episode 5x9 after all. It depends on how literal you want to interpret it. In my opinion, an approximate interpretation is sufficient, and I maintain that the clock could be interpreted as hands pointing to the “5″ and the “10″.

But remember what we’ve talked about (in Noah’s t-shirt theory among other places), that on an analog clock, the number “2″ (which indicates the hour) can also be read as “10″ (indicating minutes). So both of the numbers “2″ and “10″ can be read as “2″ and “10″. Or they can be read 22, whickh is pretty spectacular for reasons I will elaborate on later in this post.

In this particular clock from “WHAWGO”, there’s also a hand (whick probably indicates the set alarm) that points to the “8″. So we have a set of hands that can be interpreted as pointing towards episode 5x10 “Them” which is when the music box woke up.

And we have hands that can be interpreted as pointing to episode 8x2, which is the episode forshadowed by Noah’s t-shirt theory (link above), the episode when we saw the “Blue Heron” painting behing Rick.

But guess which episode in also points to!

If you swich around the numbers “8″ and “2″, you simply get 2x8!

Episode 2x8 “Nebraska”.

Which is none other than the episode I mentioned above, where we have the Piladelphia dude in the shark t-shirt, with the number “11″ (one one) written on the back. Can you see how this all creates a pattern? It’s a complex pattern, but a pattern none the less.

Further, 5x9 “WHAWGO” is the episode following 5x8 «Coda». The clock has hands pointing to both the number “5″ and the number “8″, which of course means it can be interpreted as pointing to episode 5x8 “Coda”, when Beth “died”.

Gimple ensured us of the importance of the clocks. This is what he meant.

As I explained in my Sirius/North Star post (link above), sharks were referred to as «dog-fish» back in the olden days. So that’s another tremendous coincidence, don’t you think? Shark references doubles as dog references, “shark” and “dog” references can be used interchangebly. It certainly puts the dog painting and the shark pic on the wall behind Beth in the above pic in a different perspective.

The Philly dude’s shirt had a picture of a shark on it. Noah's t-shirt had a stylized version of the «Blue Heron» painting seen behind Beth in «Still», and later behind Rick in 8x2 «The Damned».

Also, as I’ve repeated several times, I believe “beer” and “bear” are in reality the same symbol. We get a confirmation of that here, where there is a polar bear directly above where the word “beer” is written on the fridge behind the bar. I’ve also argued that the “bear” symbol is a reference to the star constellation Ursa Minor, or Lesser Bear. In North America, this constellation is usually referred to as the Little Dipper, and as we know, the North Star (Polaris) is at the end of the Little Dipper. The polar bear on top of the fridge confirms this connection (polar bear points to Polaris, the North Star). And the North Star is a major Beth symbol due to her picking up the DC spoon in “Still”.

The heron incident in 8x2 “The Dammned” was foreshadowed all the way back in season 5 (again, see Noah’s t-shirt theory) and while confirmation bias will sometimes play tricks on your brain, causing you to interpret «evidence» in a way that favors or confirms your pre-existing beliefs, that was not the case with the Blue Heron painting from 8x2. I had worked out the theory on it years before 8x2 aired, and I sat down to watch the episode, prepeared to see something related to «resurrection». In the «Noah's t-shirt» post I explain in more detail how I reached the conclusion that led me to anticipate major «resurrection» symbols in 8x2. There was, in addition to Noah's t-shirt, in 5x15 “Try”, the presence of a digital clock showing 06.30. If we interpret that as a reference to episode 6x3 “Thank You”, it’s significant that in 6x3 we witnessed the infamous «dumpster gate», tptb wanted us to believe that Glenn was dead. You know, when in fact, he wasn’t. Much like they want us to believe that Beth is dead, when in fact, she’s not.

In other words, 6x3 was the episode when Glenn DIDN’T die. It was the episode when he simply continued to stay alive.

(Also, if you read 06.30 on an analog clock, you’d find both hands pointing to “6″, perhaps referencing 6x6 “Always Accountable”, an episode full of Beth references, but that’s a post for a different day)

Other notable resurrection-themed incidents of 8x2 «The Damned» includes the «resurrection» of Morales, a character not seen or heard from in 7 seasons, and finally Morgan's little death fake out moment, where he pretended to be dead, when in fact, he wasn’t. Much like…yeah, you know.

Of course, what none of us could have known back when 8x2 aired, was that Andrew Lincoln was planning to exit the show. I’ll admit that I was confused as to the meaning of the reappearence of the “Blue Heron” painting in 8x2. However, as soon as it became known that Rick was to exit the show while still staying alive within the extended TWD universe, things became clearer. The heron is thought to be the bird from the original phoenix myth. It appeared behind Rick. He survived, although the characters believe he’s dead. The Blue Heron painting appeared behind Beth while she said “we made it”, and that is some fine symbolical evidence of both Beth and Rick being alive. The symbolism around them is the exact same.

Back to Rick. He survived only because he was saved by Anne, who arranged for a helicopter to pick him up and give him medical assistance. And by the way, I haven’t posted my “Cat” theory yet, but the main takeaway is that cats are popularily believed to have nine lives. In other words; cats are resurrection symbols. That has been my working theory for the longest time, and it was more or less formed after observing how Carol in season 3 was believed to be dead, but later resurfaced and famously stated she had “nine lives”. After Fear’s Daniel Salazar “rose from the dead” AGAIN, this time with a cat by his side, I concider this theory confirmed. Cats = “nine lives” = resurrection. I’ll definately do a more thorough post on cat symbolism later, but the reason I bring it up here, is because guess what; Anne, who saved Rick’s life, was a bit of an artist, and one of her more well-known works was this spectacular blue Picasso-style cat:

You could in fact argue that Anne’s blue cat symbolized Rick’s resurrection.

And never forget there was a blue helicopter present in Tyreese’s hallucination in 5x10 “WHAWGO”, along with all the sharks. And Beth.

And this is where the movie teaser comes in, because that helicopter that saved his life? It seems like it might have traveled to Philadelphia. I could be wrong, because it's still early and we know almost nothing about the films, but at least at this point, it seems like the helicopter transported Rick to Philly.

To have the same symbolism appear around both Rick and Beth, while knowing for sure that Rick is alive, it certainly indicates that Beth is alive also. And the heron itself is associated with the Phoenix myth, in that an (now) extinct species of heron on the Arabian peninsula is thought to have been the original representation of the Phoenix. Plus, both herons and helicopters are flying creatures. Helicopters are called “birds” in slang terms. And I also want to point out Beth “flipping the bird”, first to Daryl, then later to the burning moonshine shack.

When the Blue Heron painting (which represents resurrection) appeared around both Beth and Rick, and we know for a fact that Rick is alive, it’s logical that the same goes for Beth.

Subsequently, the very same logic would apply in relation to the shark on Philly dude’s T-shirt in 2x8, and the sharks in Noah’s brother’s room in 5x9 «WHAWGO». As I mentioned, sharks were once called “dog-fish”. I meticulously explain my interpretation of the dog symbolism in the Sirius/North Star post that I linked to somewhere above, so I won’t get into that here, but I want to mention that there were at least a couple of dog-paintings/drawings/pictures in Noah's brother’s room in 5x9.

So to try to summarize, the Philadelphia reference in the Rick Grimes movies teaser might prove to be very interesting from a Team Delusional perspective.

But there’s more. The filming of yet another TWD project has recently started up; the third spin off, currently known as “Monument”. It has been described as “TWD for teens”, and they filmed on location at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Virginia this week. Interestingly, this picture from TSDF suggests that it was transformed into “Nebraska State University”. Make of that what you will, but it’s certainly worth mentioning.

Finally, I try not to read too much into it, but I thought it was worth mentioning that the next episode of “Fear” will be called “210 words per minute”. Like I’ve previously mentioned, a lot of the symbolism on TWD seem to point to certain episode number combinations, such as 10x10 (forshadowed by Beth’s Get Well Soon poster from “Slabtown), 8x2 (forshadowed by Noah’s t-shirt theory) and 10x2 (see Noah’s t-shirt theory). In this post I discussed the clock from 5x9, and how it possibly pointed to episode 5x10, among others.

It so happens that the next episode of “Fear” in fact will be season 5 episode 10, or “5x10″. And there is a possible reference to episode 2x10 in the title. 2x10 is when Beth tried to commit suicide. Also, if you switch the numbers around, you get 10x2, which I have talked a lot about in Noah’s t-shirt theory, and ultimately it can (on an analog clock) be read 10x10. Like the “Get Well Soon” clock from “Slabtown”.

So if you watch “Fear”, keep an eye out for interesting symbolism!

#Team Delusional #team defiance #team beth lives #BETH LIVES #bethyl #Beth Greene #daryl x beth #beth x daryl

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drsilverfish · 6 years ago

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DrSilverfish S9 Meta Masterpost

Blog housekeeping cont!

S9 was a bit of a hot mess of a season, in my view, summed up by this quote from my 9x08 Rock and a Hard Place meta-review:

“If you are going to use sexual dub-con as a “metaphor” for Dean’s control of Sam [the Ezekiel/ Gadreeel possession by trickery, and all its season’s assault/ dub-con mirrors] and yet you insist on mixing that with sex jokes and the sexualisation of violence via the camera, an unholy mess is pretty much to be expected...”

Nevertheless, there were some lovely gems of episodes in the season (as well as plenty of queer subtext) and I enjoyed meta-ing it, notwithstanding the grossness of the larger theme. These shone through, for me; Beren’s first episode Heaven Can’t Wait (9x06) is stlll one of my top SPN episodes of all time; Glass’ deeply touching Bad Boys (9x07) was illuminated by Dylan Everett’s excellent performance as young Dean. Robbie Thompson also delivered an awesome happy ending for Charlie Bradbury with her queer Dorothy in Oz, in Slumber Party (9x04) which I insist on considering her true exit from the show (yes, this blog is still repressing Dark Dynasty 10x21 hard). Plus, Robbie’s Metafiction (9x18) was a glorious meta goldmine (I continue to miss Robbie and Edlund in the SPN writers’ room, among other things for their sense of meta fun).

Also, now, looking back on the season from the vantage point of being several years into the future, it is apparent that (however unpleasant it was to live through it at the time, and despite its often problematic execution) what the writers’ room set out to do in S9 was hold up to the light, via the Zeke/ Gadreel possession metaphor, the tragic toxicity of Dean and Sam’s co-dependency. This was a season in which Dean’s care-taking of Sam (a historic responsibility thrust upon him as a child, through no fault of his own) became a violation. The tragic consequence of which, was Dean’s desertion of his angel, whom his heart had wanted so much, and for so long, to have by his side (witness Dean’s long search for Cas in Purgatory in S8 and his “Nobody wants him here more than I do, Okay?” in 9x04) just when (fallen and newly human) Castiel needed him most.

Yes, Carver took us down a dark road, into the roots of the Winchesters’ psychic dysfunction in S9 (the Mark of Cain narrative of S10 and 11 being the cumulative consequence) so that Dabb could, from the turning point of 11x23, bring us back up, gradually, towards the light.

S9 Meta

1) 9x01 I Think I’m Gonna Like It Here - Who is Ezekiel, Angel of Death?

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/63578850731/who-is-ezekiel-angel-of-death

2) Who is on the Chessboard in S9? Heaven and Hell and In-Between

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/63742883512/who-is-on-the-chessboard-in-season-9-heaven-and

3) 9x02 Devil May Care and the Metaphysics of Violation (CW: for discussion of rape)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/64225291819/spn-9x02-and-the-metaphysics-of-violation-tw-for

4) 9x03 I’m No Angel

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/64899857448/drsilverfish-peruses-im-no-angel-9x03-spoilers

5) Queer Subtext in 9x03 and Its Problematic Execution

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/65335878559/queer-siubtext-in-9x03-and-its-problematic

6) 9x04 Slumber Party Meta-Review

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/65562193440/drsilverfishs-slumber-party-9x04-review

7) Dorothy and Queer-Coding in 9x04 (response to an ask on the previous meta)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/65605250789/miles-to-go-before-i-sleep-drsilverfishs-slumber

8) Dean and Cas and the Violence of Intimacy

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/65880351538/art-by-barbara-kruger-no-homo-fist-bumped-the

9) Sam, Dean and Man’s Best Friend With Benefits

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/66177750491/sam-dean-and-mans-best-friend-in-9x05-spoilers

10) “Bestiality” and 9x05

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/66316186054/bestiality-and-9x05-response-to-an-ask

11) Dean and Ezekiel

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/66573033478/the-path-of-the-righteous-man-is-beset-on-all

12) DrSilverfish’s Heaven Can’t Wait Destiel-Centric Meta-Review (9x06)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/66932619155/drsilverfishs-heaven-cant-wait-destiel-centric

13) Nobody Said it Was Easy/ Oh Take Me Back to the Start - DrSilverfish Meta-Reviews 9x07 Bad Boys

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/67596701624/nobody-said-it-was-easy-oh-take-me-back-to-the

14) Damn Straight Between a Rock and a Hard Place - DrSilverfish 9x08 Meta-Review

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/68292904893/damn-straight-between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place

15) Losing Paradise: DrSilverfish’s (Destiel-Centric) Holy Terror 9x09 Meta-Review

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/69016033105/losing-paradise-drsilverfishs-destiel-centric

16) Supernatural 9x09 The Little Things (Set Dressing Narrative)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/69166320221/supernatural-9x09-the-little-things-spoilers

17) Hail Castiel, Full of Grace: A Meditation on the Nature of Grace in the SPN Universe (9x09)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/69291532196/hail-castiel-full-of-grace-meditation-on-the

18) 9x10 Road Trip and Noir Cinematography

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/76258139601/dean-winchester-walking-away-from-his-brother-and

19) Abaddon and the Femme Fatale (9x10 Road Trip)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/79204466961/victoriavantoch-abaddon-in-9x10-road-trip

20) 9x10 Road Trip - Dean and Cas as Shirley and Laverne

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/81787352715/spn-queer-subtext-instance-no-29996-oh-just

21) A Discussion on Bees, Cain and Castiel with @isthemachinesinging and @x-cetera (latter deactivated) (9x11 First Born)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/74885442456/isthemachinesinging-x-cetera-the-beekeeping

22) Sharp Teeth (9x12) Quick Review

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/74906805501/sharp-teeth-quickie-review-supernatural-9x12

23) DrSilverfish’s Destiel-Centric Captives Meta-Review (9x14)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/78134538414/drsilverfishs-destiel-centric-captives-review

24) So Many Queer Subtext: DrSilverfish Meta-Reviews #Thinman (9x15)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/78828364438/so-many-queer-subtext-drsilverfish-reviews-spns

25) 9x16 Blade Runners Illuminated by Blade Runner (1982)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/80113492162/how-does-the-spn-9x16-episode-blade-runners

26) The Curse of “Old Donkey Teeth”: DrSilverfish Meta-Reviews 9x16 Blade Runners

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/80310421877/the-curse-of-old-donkey-teeth-drsilverfish

27) The Jawbone of an Ass: Dean as Sampson (9x16)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/80414070819/the-jawbone-of-an-ass-dean-as-samson-spn-9x16

28) Demons Walk Among Us: DrSilverfish Meta-Reviews 9x17 Mother’s Little Helper

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/80978944870/demons-walk-among-us-drsilverfish-reviews-spns

29) Metatron’s “Metafictional” Spell: The Ingredients (9x18 Metafiction)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/82933467509/metatrons-metafictional-spell-the-ingredients

30) 19x18 Metafiction - The Trench-Coat and Free Will

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/82948619070/9x18-metafiction-the-trench-coat-and-free

31) Metatron and Robbie Thompson’s Metafictional Send-Up of TPTB (19x18)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/83026009934/supernaturals-metatron-has-been-painted-thus

32) What Makes a Story Work? Robbie Goes Meta in Metafiction (9x18) (endnote discussion with @newyeardad )

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/83116451392/mixgoldenphoenix-newyeardad-what-makes-a

33) Metafiction’s Subtextual Boner, FYI (9x18)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/83202304892/metafictions-subtextal-boner-fyi-spn-9x18

34) Note on Castiel/ Jesus Parallels in S9

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/83245109970/tw-this-is-a-scene-from-9x03-im-no-angel

35) Spec on Dean Going Full Dark-Side (9x18 Metafiction)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/83307390112/why-was-metatron-using-a-very-supernatural

36) Metatron Links Cas to Bisexual Poet Muriel Rukeyser (9x18 Metafiction)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/83318897321/muriel-rukeyser-the-us-poet-metatron-quotes-to

37) “Vampiric Stockholm Syndrome”: DrSilverfish Meta-Reviews Alex, Annie, Alexis, Ann (9x19)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/83659732157/vampiric-stockholm-syndrome-dr-silverfish

38) The Godfather with Fangs Lacks Bite: 9x20 Bloodlines

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/84346671959/the-godfather-with-fangs-lacks-bite-spn-9x20

39) 9x21 King of the Damned and Addictions

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/85142976459/spn-king-of-the-damned-9x21-and-addictions

40) 9x21 Gematria and Jacob’s Ladder

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/85543224799/jacobs-ladder-by-william-blake-1805-in-9x21

41) DrSilverfish’s Network Advice for an SPN Spin-Off

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/85926475349/drsilverfishs-network-advice-for-an-spn-spin-off

42) S9 “Love and.... Love”

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/85936817759/castielandmoriarty-its-killing-him-to-say

43) DrSilverfish’s Destiel-Centric Musings on Do You Believe in Miracles (9x23)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/86535731704/drsilverfishs-destiel-centric-musings-on-do-you

44) Beheadings, Democritus, and S9 Demon!Dean Foreshadowing

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/86543231314/democritus-meditating-on-the-seat-of-the-soul

45) Crowley, Queer King of Hell and Seducer of Dean Winchester

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/86731441939/crowley-queer-king-of-hell-and-seducer-of-dean

#Supernatural #SPN meta #Meta #Meta Masterpost #S9 Meta Masterpost #Blog housekeeping strikes again

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kitten1618x · 8 years ago

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Why as a Jonsa shipper I'm not threatened by Targcest and you shouldn't be either.

So last night in the wee hours of morn, my GoT soul sistah @everythingjonsa and I were fangirling and flailing -you know, the shipping norm. Somewhere between all that, we had some serious discussion. Some of it has been already been proposed, but with a possible Targbowl on the very near horizon, let's recap anyway.

Let me start by saying this isn't an anti-Dany post. I happen to LOVE The Mother of Dragons with the burning heat of a thousand suns! She started at rock bottom -literally as nothing more than chattel -a piece of property to be sold by her own brother for personal gain, to a man that started out as her rapist (because while I love Khal Drogo -facts are facts, my babies -and yes, rape can exist in a marriage). But before I delve too deep into that, let me rewind a bit.

This is going to be long and convoluted (because that's how me and my scattered thoughts roll), so if you've got the patience for my rambling, read on!

So, a lot of people have their own theories and interpretations of what the song of ice and fire is to them. From season one, we've seemed to have been following along the parallel journey of two heroes. Both underdogs (and who doesn't root for the underdogs???), both making mistakes and learning hard life lessons along the way, both whom never seem to be able to grasp onto any modicum of happiness for very long, and both losing their first loves tragically. Yet, we've watched them both grow stronger and more self-aware. Seems like TPTB (the powers that be) are purposely paralleling these two characters for a reason.

One of ice. One of fire.

They seem destined to meet up eventually - This "song" of ice and fire. And here's where this ship was born.

So before we fast forward, let's hit the rewind button a bit more, and head back to season 1 Dany, and her evolution from bullied baby sis, to "the next time you raise a hand at me will be the last time you have hands." Her time among the Dothraki have made her more confident, and the love she's sewn with Drogo has fledged her out into a full blown Khaleesi. And when Visereys meets his miserable end, it seems pretty damn justifiable. In fact, any time that one of Dany's foes meets a horrible end (especially in the earlier seasons) -it almost always does seem deserved, as they have usually revealed themselves to be miserable shits. Her brother, Mirri Maz Durr (the witch responsible for Drogo's death and who cursed Dany), the King of Qarth and Doreah (the whore), the Master of the Unsullied, etc. There may be some I'm leaving out, but you get the point.

It wasn't until later seasons that we see a cold cruelness begin to emerge from her -a sort of enjoyment in killing people -like the Master she had her Dragons burn alive in the crypts (and seemed to enjoy toying with the others watching while it happened), and the Khals in the temple. The Master she burned alive may have been innocent, but Dany didn't care, she played judge, jury and executioner right on the spot -just as when she had other Masters crucified (even ones who spoke out about crucifying children, as Hizdahr zo Loraq pointed out). The killing of the Khals I can place in a more ambiguous light, because they were kind of dicks, although they didn't start insulting/threatening her until she disrespected them and said they weren't fit to lead the Dothraki and that she would take them for herself.

But here's thing -if you were actually paying attention -go back to the beginning and rewatch ANY of the times someone has died at the hands of or indirectly by Dany, she has this crazed satisfied look on her face. It's almost as if she enjoys killing people.

I'm not negating the good things she's done or tried to do. Her inherent need to abolish slavery isn't wrong -it's her methods of achieving it that I take issue with. And God forbid if you disagree with her methods? No one can argue that disagreeing with what the Dragon Queen perceives as wrong, usually puts you at the top of her flaming hit list. Sounds quite tyrannical, no?

Despite everything I've just said, I really do think that Dany constantly struggles to do the right thing -because she wants to be a good and just ruler, but it's that damn dragon temper that gets in her way sometimes. Luckily, she's always had level-headed advisers around her -Jorah, Ser Barristan and now Tyrion, and she does usually listen to them. But, what would've happened if they weren't around?

On the other hand, we have Ser Ice himself, the honorable Jon Snow, who lives by the same code as the man who raised him, Ned Stark. And without making this meta impossibly longer (because I could drone on about Jon's faults and wonderful qualities forever), two very stark (har dee har har, pun intended) differences I see between Dany and Jon are: while Jon has done plenty of his own killing in the series, he certainly doesn't enjoy it. Even when he was executing the men who had murdered him - you could see by the look on his face vs. hers (burning the Khals).

He who passed the sentence, swung the sword, but this was painful for him -and prior to cutting the rope, he even let Ser Alistair have his last words. Jon is just and fair. Jon doesn't want to be a leader, but he just keeps getting thrust into the position. Yes, he makes mistakes, but he does this whole leadership thing pretty well (aside from not listening to Sansa when he should). ;)

On the other hand .... we have Dany threatening to take back what’s hers with blood and fire. What makes it hers?

Baby girl ....you is the usurper, now!

So, the (hopelessly longwinded) point I'm actually trying to make is that I think they purposefully walked the line on this darker side of Dany, while always putting her in am ambiguous light because they WANTED us to root for her right alongside of Jon. They wanted us to think they were the song of ice and fire together, until ....They finally revealed to us that R+L=J

So if Jon's the son of Rhaegar Targaryen (fire) and Lyanna Stark (ice) then Jon, and Jon alone is the song.

Dany is only fire. So where does she fit in? Despite all my rambling, I'm not necessarily sure that Dany will be the villain here. I certainly think she'll be switching to an antagonist POV, though. Clearly, her and her Dragons have an important role to play in the war against the WW. I personally think she will have a huge part in saving Westeros at the cost of her own life.

Despite Jon having Targ blood, Jon is and always will be a STARK at heart. It's who he is at his core -honorable and just, exactly like Ned.

So that's what we came up with -maybe the huge twist is that Dany isn't the hero we've all been following along and rooting for since season 1. Or maybe she is -just not in the way a lot of people are expecting. GRRM certainly loved to blur the lines between good and bad. Maybe she's both?

So the point to all this? It's why I don't ship them. It's why whether or not boatbang or Targcest (or whatever any of you want to call it) actually proves to be true and happens --it doesn't threaten our ship in the slightest. So everyone take a collective chill and Jonsa on, mmmkay?

#jonsa #jon x sansa #jonsa meta

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mittensmorgul · 8 years ago

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Hi mittens, I was thinking about your casual viewer stories with mr mittens and reflecting about the different ways different people experience supernatural. Me and my sister have been watching the show together since the very first episode, even in the years when we lived apart we would save up the episodes and catch up on weekends. And yet she has never seen the dean/cas while I was frantically scouring for fanfic since the deancas livejournal days :-) never really thought about it until (1/2)

..episode 12/19 (I think) when cas returns and dean is angry at him for going awol and not returning his calls. My sister laughed and said dean has such abandonment issues (in general and not specifically the cas issue) and I was all, are we watching the same show? How do you interpret the mixtape scene in the very same episode??!!?? Now wondering how she'd react if it ever went canon and if I should ever approach the topic with her to see how plausible she'd find it. thought I'd share :-) (2/2)

(and I think this is you as well? If not let me know:

Previous viewer stories anon here, just wanted to add that I don't believe there is any one 'correct' way to interpret the show (might not have come across that way trying to fit into tumblr 's word count), only that I found it interesting that two people with the same upbringing and watching the show in the same way could have such varying interpretations!!! also wondering what it would take to get a casual viewer to accept destiel as a natural progression and not a wtf if they ever go there!!!)

I honestly have no idea how casual viewers would react. I suspect it would be different for everyone? Based on their own feelings and biases and expectations, just like all media that we consume, you know?

So this isn’t something she knows that people ship, or she just doesn’t understand WHY people ship them, or does she know you ship them and is just in complete denial over it?

I mean, there’s no one reading even among people who do ship the thing, just as there’s no one reading among people who don’t ship the thing.

Everyone engages with media at different levels, and for different reasons.

I just... can’t speak for the entirety of the general audience about how they would feel or react, or whether they’d “accept” it or not. It seems like TPTB are going so far above and beyond the call of duty in at least laying down a series of undeniable stepping stones to make it more and more difficult for anyone to look at it and say, “Heck that came out of nowhere!” Because all we have to do is point backward at the very long pathway they’ve been walking us down for years and ask what the hell they thought all that stuff was.

Every romantic trope they’ve used, every bit of subtext that tends to get debated after every single episode over whether it’s platonic or romantic, whether it’s intentional or not, will suddenly have become explicitly romantic and we can finally stop debating everything. :P

#the destiel #destiel #Anonymous

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twdmusicboxmystery · 4 years ago

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The Divine Comedy Theory, Part 1

All right, here’s my Divine Comedy theory that I’ve been working on the past few weeks. First, let’s remember that tptb said the golf club in Still represented the 9 circles of Hell. The 9 Circles of Hell come from Dante’s books, including Divine Comedy and The Inferno. So they’re obviously using those books as symbol templates.

But the point is, that much of it isn’t a theory. It’s fact. Tptb CONFIRMED this. It’s now just up to us to try and figure out the interpretation, HOW they’re using it. And that’s what I’m attempting to do here.

We also saw a sign reading, “Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here” near Rick and Negan in S8. That is also a Dante thing. In the Divine Comedy (TDC) that sign is seen when one is entering hell. More on that later.

I decided to divide this into 2 parts because it’s very long. Today, I’ll summarize the Divine Comedy itself and talk about how seasons of TWD might correspond to the different circles of hell. Tomorrow, I’ll talk about Still and the “Abandon all Hope” sign. Here we go:

THE DIVINE COMEDY: A BREAKDOWN

The story starts on Good Friday and ends on Easter. Obviously, that's a good sign.

We start with Dante who is lost in the dark wood. Above him, the sun shines on a mountain peak and he attempts to climb it to get to where the sun is, but his path is blocked by a leopard, a lion, and a shewolf. (Yes, I'm side eyeing the she-wolf thing as well.)

Discouraged that he can't get to where the sun is, Dante returns to the dark wood. He sees the ghost of the poet Virgil, who says Dante's path must take him through Hell but Virgil will guide him and eventually he will reach his beloved, Beatrice. He also tells Dante that Beatrice, who is deceased, and two other holy women are the ones who sent Virgil to him. They knew of his plight and took pity on him. (I really think this is probably the tie to the three Marys.)

So, they head into Hell. This is where we get the sign, "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."

The first region that Dante enters is actually the anti-inferno. It's what you might call the antechamber or waiting room of hell. There are still people there, though. Those who couldn't commit to good or evil, fence-sitters who wouldn’t make a choice. They chase a blank banner while hornets bite them and worms lap up their blood.

To actually get to the gate of hell, Dante and Virgil have to go across the river. They do and then they reach the first circle of hell, which is called Limbo. Here, there are pagans. Those who never knew Christ.

The second circle is for those who committed the sin of lust. They swirl about in a terrible storm. The third circle is for the gluttonous. They lie in the mud and endure a rain of excrement.

The Fourth Circuit is for the avaricious and the prodigal. They charge at one another with giant boulders. I was a little confused by why the prodigal would be here. In the Bible, the prodigal isn't generally regarded as a crime or sin. But reading further, the prodigal son did waste the resources that his father gave him before returning to his father and asking for forgiveness. So, these are people who are wasteful in a really bad way. Apparently, they charge at one another around a semi-circle, smack into each other, turn around to go the other way, and repeat it all again.

In the fifth circle are the wrathful. The struggle with each other in the river Styx which is a swampy and fetid cesspool. The Sullen are also there, and they lie beneath the water, choking on the mud.

The sixth circle is for the heretics. The circle is populated by tombs which are surrounded by flames.

The seventh circle has three rings and houses the violent. The first ring is for people who are violent toward others. They spend eternity in a river of boiling blood. The second ring is for those violent toward themselves (suicides). This is kinda interesting. They endure eternity in the form of trees. (I don’t think TWD uses the trees as suicides, necessarily, but maybe more for people who inadvertently caused their own deaths through their actions. I was thinking about Deanna saying of Pete, “Let the trees have him.” Which suggests she’s consigning him to hell. Just a thought.) The third ring is for those violent toward God (blasphemers) violent toward nature (sodomites) and violent toward art (usurers).

The eighth circle is full of evil pockets of people. There are 10 pockets. I opted not to go through them all here because, at least for now, I don’t think they’re relevant. Just ten types of sinners such as flatterers, thieves, people who took bribes, etc.

Finally, the Ninth Circle. In order to reach it, they descend into a well that leads to a frozen lake. In the first ring are those who betrayed their kin and they are standing up to their necks in the frozen lake. The second ring holds those who betrayed their country, and they are standing up to their heads in a frozen lake. In the third ring are those who have betrayed their guests. They lie on their backs with only their faces sticking out of the water. The fourth week ring is for those who have betrayed their benefactors and they are completely submerged.

At the center of this ring is a shrouded, gigantic form which is Lucifer. He has three mouths that are chewing on three sinners: Judas Iscariot, Cassius and Brutus. Those who famously betrayed their masters.

Dante and Virgil climb down Satan's clothing to get to the very bottom of the 9th circle of hell. Interestingly, Dante is carried on Virgil's back. So, we have a serious piggyback going on here.

After they climb down Satan, they cross the river Lethe and emerge from hell on Easter morning before sunrise.

HOW IT MAY CORRESPOND TO TWD:

Okay, so that’s a very broad synopsis of TDC.

Let's talk about a few different ways we can possibly interpret this. First off, my very general theory is that (and we’ve said things similar to this before) that the post-apocalyptic world = hell and in a sense all our characters are Dante. Which means the walkers in this analogy represent the souls who are already in hell. Think of it this way. In the story, Dante is a living person that has to pass through hell. In fact, in many of the circles, the gate keepers and such try to keep him from passing because he’s still alive. But he always gets special permission to do so. So, it’s a “being alive among the dead” sort of theme. The dead, of course, being the walkers.

And the reason that’s important is because some of how we can interpret this is based on how walkers are portrayed throughout different seasons. Let me also say that this is a very loose interpretation and I’m by no means positive I’m interpreting this right. Some of this is hard to nail down.

So, I tried to make different seasons and arcs of the TWD story fit the different circles of hell. For example, I would say this analogy really starts in S4, because I think it's purposefully placed and wouldn't have begun heavily until Gimple took over. So, I think all of S4 was the anti-inferno or antechamber before they got to hell. In the same way that S4 foreshadowed many coming arcs, this was just a little bit beforehand.

Crossing into hell would be Beth and Daryl's separation. I was thinking that the first circle, Limbo, which is described as housing those who never knew Christ, might be Terminus. (Beth is the Christ figure and she never made it to Terminus.) The second circle is for those who lust and they walk about in a terrible storm. I thought of 5x10 and the storm they went through there. The third circle is for the gluttonous. This one stumped me a little bit. Its still rain and a storm, but it talked more about mud and people being blown around in the storm. So, it could be part of 5x10, but I also thought of the big storm they had in FTWD S5. I'm not sure about that one.

The fifth circle talks about people running at one another with huge boulders. I thought of the rock quarry in S6.

Total side note: I was looking for a picture of the rock quarry to put in here, and I came across this pic below. Quint means 5, and then of course it actually says “Gate 5.” I’ve always thought this pointed back to S5, to show that Glenn’s death fake-out is a template of Beth. But this may also point to this being a symbolic representation of the 5th circle of hell. Just saying. ;D

Then there's the sixth circle. It talks about people struggling with each other in the river Styx and it swampy and fetid. The thing that came to mind here is the swamp walkers in S8. This was when Tara was still trying to kill Dwight and Daryl and co took all the kids away from Alexandria and to Hilltop. Remember, they made a big deal about swamp walkers? So I wondered if this could be in line with that in season eight. The walkers show what circle of hell therein.

Another tier of the sixth circle is tombs surrounded by flames. I think the thing that embodies that more than anything else we've seen would be the Whisperers. We saw the burning of Hilltop and the Whispers represent death anyway. I could see Alpha representing a heretic in various ways, not least because they pretend to be walkers when they’re not.

What I’ve said so far is what I discovered and got super excited about a few weeks ago when I first started doing this. Because it told me that by using this template, we might be able to get an idea of when Beth would return.

But you can probably see the first problem I ran into. If we’re only at the sixth circle, we still have three more circles before Beth returns, right? (Assuming that she returns at the end of this and Dante emerging from hell on Easter will signal Beth and Daryl reuniting.) But I don’t think it will be three more seasons or whatever until we see her. Truly.

So, I kinda got stumped because even reading through the seventh, eighth and ninth circles, nothing was jumping out at me that suggests we’ve seen the events corresponding to those circles, yet. I'm sure we could find some way to compare them to events in the story, but just nothing really obvious stood out.

But don't despair yet. I was originally a little unsure about this, but I started looking at the actual events of Still, it made me feel much better. I think I understand now why it's laid out this way.

So once again, come back tomorrow and we’ll talk about Still, and then about Rick, and maybe about the chess theory. Stay tuned!

#beth greene beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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twdmusicboxmystery · 4 years ago

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More Suspicious Details Surrounding This Week’s Big News

Hey Everyone! Just want to show you two little things today. Remember how I said there were a bunch more details I wanted to put in my thoughts that I posted on Thursday? Well, these are some of them.

By way of what’s coming next, I listened to the latest “emergency episode” (because of the TWD news) of the Talk Dead to Me podcast and I actually learned a lot of things worth posting. And there was also some super-suspicious Beth stuff.

But…I’m going to wait until Monday to post that. (How’s that for a tease. ;D) Mostly because it’s going to be kind of a long post, and I actually want to go back and relisten to portions of it so I’m sure I’m getting the details 100% right.

***If you want to listen to it, let me warn you that they do go on a bit of TD bashing tangent near the end. They don’t mention us by name or anything, but they start being sarcastic about how there are some people who still believe Beth is alive. And I know that’s upsetting to many in our fandom. So just consider yourselves warned.***

But the reason I even mention that today is because one of the things I’ll illustrate in that post on Monday is pretty definitive proof that tptb carefully craft EVERYTHING that goes out on social media. It’s something we’ve suspected for a long time, and we’ve had several small confirmations of it. But one thing they mention in that podcast is that everything that goes out on SM (and that includes the clickbait sites). Again, I’ll explain more on Monday how I know this, but suffice it to say, everything is written, carefully worded, even what images are used, not just by AMC or the network’s social media managers, but by Gimple and Kang themselves.

And why is that important?

Because of what I’m going to show you today. They’re suspicious lines from two clickbait articles that, among dozens of others reported the news of TWD’s end date and the spin off series. One of them, I noticed, but forgot to include. The other, I completely missed, but @wdway pointed it out to me.

The first is this one:

Just the fact that that they used this picture tells me that the spin off will have to do with the New Mexico symbolism. But that’s not even my biggest takeaway.

Look at the bottom line. “…And another that could bring characters back from the grave.”

Now, 1) we’ve seen lines like this before and TD always pounces on them. But it’s especially interesting to me that this is being said in conjunction with these spinoffs. 2) They’re talking about the second spin off here. Not the Carol/Daryl one, but the “Tales from The Walking Dead” one that they’ve already said will tell back stories they couldn’t get around to in the main series. Even those of deceased characters. I highly suspect this is where we’ll finally see some Abraham/Eugene backstory. But could this include Beth? Definitely.

Next article. This one:

Look at what’s underlined here. It says, “only after production of 30 more episodes spread between the previously announced 6-episode coda to season 10.”

Um…they’re calling the 6 bonus episodes a coda? Remember that this wording is not only approved but apparently distributed by tptb. Even if these 6 bonus episodes aren’t exactly what I suspect (flashbacks to the missing 17 days in S5) is there really any chance that they won’t be connected to Beth in some way?

Something to think about. Have a great weekend, everyone!

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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twdmusicboxmystery · 6 years ago

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TD Clues From 9x05: So Many!

Okay guys, this isn't even going to be a details post, which is what I usually do on Tuesday. Today, I just wanted to geek out about all the Beth/TF stuff I saw swirling around the episode last night. This won’t even all be from the episode itself.

***Once again, spoilers abound from 9x05. Don’t read until you’ve watched!***

“You need to wake up.”

They repeated this often and that’s important. Even though we didn't hear this around Beth, we did around Denise. This is an edit I made during S6. Remember this? And of course Denise is directly linked to Beth.

“What’s your wound?” Part 1:

I have about thirteen things to say about this. Okay, I’m exaggerating. Not that many, but I have a lot.

First, we have to examine the structure of Rick’s hallucination. Some of this isn’t directly Beth related, but she’s involved, so we need to understand the patterns of what Rick sees.

It’s structured in four parts, and each part involves two characters, most of which are dead. Even the ones who aren’t dead are “gone,” and chances are Rick believes they’re dead. In each part, one of the two characters is the one Rick sees and speaks to face to face. The other one is unseen, but he hears their voice saying, “What’s your wound?” One or both characters and their deaths/disappearances are major events in Rick’s life that he feels a great deal of grief and/or guilt over. You’ll understand as I go along.

These pairs also correlate with various season on the show, though not always just one. I guess they correspond with different eras of the show.

Part 1 is the opening sequence. Morgan’s voice is heard saying, “What’s your wound?”

This is interesting because, from an audience standpoint, Morgan is not dead. But remember that Rick tried to convince Morgan to stay, but Morgan took off to Texas anyway. Rick probably feels that he failed Morgan, and I think it’s a pretty safe assumption, given the state of all the other characters in this hallucination, that Rick believes Morgan is dead.

Rounding out this pair in part 1 is Rick himself. He’s the second half of this pair. And given that he sees himself as he was before, before the apocalypse changed him, you might say he believes the man he formerly was is dead and gone. This obviously correlates with S1 and the very beginning of Rick’s arc.

Part 2 is where he speaks with Shane. Just before he sees Shane sitting in the squad car, a woman’s voice says, “What’s your wound?” It’s Lori.

Think about that. Lori and Shane are a character pair. And that makes perfect sense because they were paired in Rick’s life. These two represent seasons 2-3. They also represent the part of Rick’s life when he was figuring out who he would be in the apocalypse and how he would handle things. Neither of them (Lori or Shane) were very positive people or positive influences on Rick. That’s reflected here by Shane telling Rick to embrace violence in order to survive. And of course, Rick felt a great deal of grief, guilt, and responsibility about both their deaths.

Part 3 is Hershel. In this instance we heard another woman’s voice say, “What’s your wound?” Everyone in my group instantly recognized Emily’s voice. And there was a small, strange anomaly here, but I’ll return to it in a moment.

So, Beth and Hershel are the third pair. They fit the pattern again. Rick felt a great deal of pain and responsibility about their deaths. They represent seasons 2-5, with some overlap with Lori/Shane. Though overall, I think they represent S4-S5 because S4 was when we saw Rick and Hershel became really close, and of course Hershel’s death was in 4x08, while Beth’s was in 5x08. It’s interesting to me that this pair is right after Shane/Lori, because, as bad an influence as Shane and Lori were, Hershel and Beth were exactly the opposite. Rick hugs Hershel, but didn’t hug Shane. He apologized to Hershel about Beth, but no apologies to Shane about anything, or mention of Lori.

The fourth and final pair is Sasha and Abraham. While still in the hospital, Rick hears Abraham’s voice say, “What’s your wound?”

Then he walks through the door and talks to Sasha. So once again, he obviously feels guilty about both deaths. And they represent seasons 6-8. That covers the entire show. Now we’re in S9.

Okay, I promise this is all important. So now it’s time to look for patterns. There are really only two kinds of characters here. Ones that we know for sure are dead (Shane, Lori, Abraham, Hershel, Sasha). And those Rick believes are dead, but really aren’t. I know we can’t prove that about Beth yet, but it’s definitely true of Morgan.

Incidentally, I think the man Rick was also falls into this category. He thinks the good man he once was is dead (“I’m not the good guy anymore.”) But he’s not. Also remember that in 9x04, Carol said the thing about the Saviors needing to figure out who they want to be, and I said that was a theme? This is Rick figuring out who he will be moving forward. Will he listen to Daryl and become like Shane? Or will he listen to Hershel and Sasha and keep his hope, goodness, and compassion?

But I digress…

Back to the strange anomaly I mentioned around Beth. All the voices that say, “What’s your wound,” are named in the subtitles.

Except one. In Hershel’s part of the hallucination, when it’s obviously Beth’s voice, the subtitles just say, “Woman.”

This was true of the subtitles on my TV, and then the same thing ended up being true on the AMC app (where these pics are from).

(And yes, I’m aware this looks like I”m pointing at Hershel’s butt. Not my fault what shot thy chose to put the subtitl on. 😆)

It’s really interesting, given that the other names are given, this has to be intentional. Normally, most of the GA has no hope of picking up on this because most people don't watch with subtitles on. However, I didn't recognize Lori's voice, so even if I usually didn't watch with subtitles (which I do) I might turn them on to figure out which characters were speaking. I'm wondering if tptb were banking on that.

And, once again, they’re going out of their way to not mention Beth's name. (Even the subtitles are snubbing her now!) It's weird for two reasons.

1) She's mentioned audibly in the show by Hershel, and we saw her body lying there, so what would be the problem with saying her name in the subtitles?

2) Given that most of the GA thinks she's dead, it certainly wouldn't change anyone's opinion of that. If anything, just like when she appeared in Tyreese’s death hallucination, it would reinforce it. So why was she not named?

The only thing I can come up with is that she's still alive. Sure, Morgan’s alive too, but the audience knows that. Of all the voice overs, hers is the ONLY identity that’s hidden. So, they’re singling her out.

Beth’s Body

So now let's talk about the part we saw Beth’s body. Guys, this is huge. Not only did we see her, which would've been a big deal anyway, but the camera focused on her for several seconds. The camera pans over Daryl, and it's obvious that it's him.

We also see Maggie as the camera pans across.

And get a quick flash of Rosita as it fades out.

When Rick squats down, we can see Carol and Jesus clearly.

Then, of course, we see Beth.

Remember, I said before that I wasn't sure if there's anyone except live characters are in this shot? We’ve now identified several deceased characters on the field. I noticed Tyreese. Others have said they’ve seen Bob and some others. Plus, when Sasha talks to Rick, she rises up as though she’d been lying on the ground, too. So not all the bodides in the field are still-alive characters.

But.

Here’s what’s interesting. We don’t see closeups of any of the deceased characters. (Sasha doesn’t count as she talks to Rick and is therefore in a class of her own.) When the camera pans over Daryl, Beth, and Maggie, it’s almost like it’s from Rick’s POV and his eyes are sweeping over the dead. Then, when he squats down (not from his POV) we see Carol and Jesus. So, the characters we see CLOSE UP shots of are all alive on the show.

And Beth is among them.

(Although it is interesting to note that we don’t see her face. Just like in Coda when they didn’t show her face again after she was shot.)

We could also argue that the camera focuses for a moment on her, which is weird. Yeah, it focuses on the others I’ve named too, but why didn’t it focus on other “alive” characters like Enid, Jesus, Ezekiel, etc. No, instead they chose to focus on Beth.

So I think it’s really interesting that we specifically get them in that order. Daryl, then Beth, then Maggie. These three characters now have a stronger connection than maybe any others on the show, with Rick gone.

My point is that one of these things is not like the other. We have Beth singled out in two ways here. One, that they didn't name her in the close captioning, whereas all the other characters were named, and 2) it focused on her, even more than it did on the live characters.

Another thing worth mentioning here is that we see blood on the outside and back of her arm. Remember THIS theory by @bethgreeneisqueen. It's his theory that when Daryl shot Dawn, Dawn semi-fell on top of Beth. And that a lot of the blood we see by Beth's arm actually came from Dawn. I think that's a super-plausible theory and I've always hoped it's true.

This is almost confirmation of that, guys. I mean, we did not see her get blood on this part of her arm in Coda. This is nowhere near her head wound. From what we saw in 5x08, there’s absolutely no reason there should be so much blood on this part of her body.

Why are they showing us this? If Beth really is dead, and they just wanted to include her in this scene, why show us blood on a part of her body other than the one we saw in Coda? The only reason to show something like this, that we don't have an explanation for and never saw the show, is because it's going to become relevant at some point. They’re showing it to us because they're going to explain it to us moving forward.

Another important point? She's wearing the yellow polo. Maybe that seems obvious because it's the way any fan would recognize her, but also keep in mind that in Coda, she was wearing her grey sweater. So we’re seeing her with blood all over her arm in a place she didn't have it in Coda, and it would have had to be underneath her sweater. So, this is super significant. It goes far beyond just seeing her in the episode. There's a massive foreshadowing going on here. I can't wait to see it play out!

“What’s Your Wound,” Part 2:

Let’s talk about this line itself, because it’s definitely significant. This line originally came from S1. Morgan said it to Rick in 1x01. Remember, that was because he saw that Rick had a bandage on his rib cage and was afraid Rick had been bitten. Saying, “what’s your wound” was Morgan’s way of asking if Rick had been bitten. Of course, Rick was still pretty confused about the whole zombie apocalypse situation, so it took him awhile to figure out what Morgan was getting at.

I had to think long and hard about why they repeated THIS line so much in 9x05. I mean, yes, the end mirrors the beginning, so there’s that. But they could have feasibly used any line from 1x01 or from Morgan if that’s all they were going for. Two things occurred to me about this that are intriguing. Both of them relate to Beth.

1) Morgan wanted to know what Rick’s wound was. It actually wasn’t a walker bite. So Rick’s answer to Morgan’s question was, “it’s a gunshot wound.” Maybe I’m reaching, but anything gunshot wound related makes me think of Beth. Especially considering that in 1x01, Rick’s gunshot put him into a 3-week coma that he SHOULD have died from but didn’t. And of course there are all the other parallels of being presumed dead and left behind.

2) ”What’s your wound” also ties into being bitten. Again, this is reminding me of Beth because so many of us think she may have been bitten and survived a bite at Grady. (Bite/Cure Theory) Which leads me into my next point.

Grady/Helicopter Parallels:

So, we have a situation where Anne/Jadis is giving people to the helicopter people, whoever they are. And with both Negan and FG, she tried to have a walker bite them. Why would someone in a helicopter want a person who’s been bitten, unless it’s a medical thing. Like perhaps they’re experimenting or working on a cure? Backing this up, in my mind, is the fact that in the final shot of Rick in the chopper with Jadis, he’s wearing a canula. (The clear tube-y thing in his nose; it dispenses oxygen.)

What that tells me is that these people not only have access to hospital-level medical care, but that they’re actually carrying it on the helicopter with them, so that if anyone they pick up needs care, they can provide it.

Furthermore, from the conversation the guy on the walkie had with Jadis, I don’t think she can be the only person they have arrangements with to trade for people. I have to wonder if the helicopters themselves fly around snatching people up, much like the Grady cops did. I’m just saying that this situation with the people who took Rick is VERY similar to what we saw of Grady in S5. The situations in which they were taken are even similar. Even though the helicopter people kind of had to be talked into taking Rick, it was still a matter of them finding him, injured, on the side of the river, and taking him to a place where he’ll receive medical care. The Grady cops found Beth, injured, on the side of the road, and took her to where she received medical care.

We also know Grady had a helicopter pad. So, is it possible the helicopter people have ties to Grady? Could Rick and Jadis actually be headed to Grady? No idea, but the parallels are there.

Coda on TTD:

I totally wigged out while watching TTD because, while talking about the end of this episode where they showed Older-Judith, Andrew Lincoln referred to that as a “coda.” The only time we've ever heard the word “coda” used in the show, was around Beth. We, TD, have called other things codas, such as the codas of the SDCC trailers, or the short return of Morales. But the show has never used the word “coda” except around Beth. Having Judith show up there, obviously a badass, wearing the sheriff's hat and saving people? All kinds of parallels to what we think will happen with Beth. So, calling it a coda, and given that Beth wore the sheriff’s hat in 4x16, is actually a major foreshadow of Beth's imminent appearance. Andrew Lincoln called it a coda, and later so did Chris Hardwick. I might have jumped up and down and freaked out a bit.

The Songbird in 9x06:

Finally, I want to talk about an image that's been released for next week. You can watch the first few minutes 9x06 on the app, as always. During that opening couple of minutes, we see Daryl looking up at a bird in a tree.

As soon as I saw it, my mouth fell open. Daryl is staring at a song bird! Then @katkhaos and M-Nonny found some info about what kind of bird this was. I assumed it was a Bluejay, which is a type of North American songbird. But it’s actually an Osciner bird. The official (not scientific) name the Osciner bird is known by is The Songbird. (SOURCE)

You guys see how important this is? Obviously, we've had a lot of things that are musical represent Beth, but to actually see Daryl staring at a songbird is a huge deal!

1) The obvious thing, that Beth was the songbird.

2) All the different kinds of birds they’ve used to symbolize Beth. Let me reconnect some of this imagery for you. We saw a birdcage in Beth’s cell in 4x01. In literature, a birdcage is very often used to represent imprisonment, so I think the symbol is mostly for that. But again, the actual symbol in literature is a caged bird. It's a very common trope used in literature to show a situation where a character (especially a female) feels trapped.

So, Beth was literally the songbird who was going to become trapped. Then later, in 4x09, After Carl explored the pudding house. He opened a bedroom door and saw a birdcage with the door open, and a bird dead on the ground. Even though I didn't understand all the implications of Carl seeing it back then, (I will also address that later on) there is no doubt in my mind that this is about Beth.

Now, there's not really a whole lot of resurrection symbolism here. This does seem to just foreshadow her death. But again, because the birdcage was in her cell, and we see another birdcage here with a dead bird, it suggests that the songbird will die trying to escape her prison. Which is exactly what we saw in Coda.

So I think they sort of divided up the symbolism. In S4, we only saw evidence of her death. In a way, I think it showed that while Carl continued to be on the show, Beth would not be. She’d be “dead.” Not until Carl's death did we see evidence of her resurrection around him. (The Phoenix.)

Then there's all the other birds we've seen around Beth. The blue Heron, the yellow finches from the funeral home in Alone. There are all the black and white birds we seen on the show lately. And now we have Daryl staring at songbird.

So here's the thing, guys. I’ve been thinking the past few weeks that, what with Rick leaving and the time, jump, that this is obviously the end of an arc, and 9x06 will begin a new one. Because of that, we have to treat 9x05 like a season finale. Which means we need to treat the next episode, when the new arc opens, like a season premiere. In other words, everything we see there will foreshadow this new arc moving forward.

So I’ll just to say it straight out. Daryl seeing a songbird foreshadows him finding Beth in this arc.

The fact that he sees the song bird with a nest of babies also indicates that Beth may show up with children. (Beth and Daryl as protectors of Children Theory).

(And this isn’t by far the only suspicious symbol in the opening minutes of 9x06. Seriously, go watch it if you can. Daryl first sees this bird when it lands on a walker stuck on a tree. It’s a callback to the walker on the tree in 5x15, Try, which we also think is about Beth.)

Oh, but it gets even better. Yesterday afternoon, M-Nonny sent me some info about Blue birds in various world cultures. Check this out: (It’s long, so feel free to scroll through. I’ve underlined the most relevant parts.) (SOURCE)

Tell me that doesn’t prove this bird represents Beth! It’s right there y’all! Sun, dawn, threes, happiness, hope.

So, I said the other night that Gimple’s announcement changed everything and maybe we would see Beth in one of these other spin-offs shows or some other kind of content they’re planning to create. Because of the songbird, I do still think we’re going to see her in regular TWD. There's too much they’ve put in the show foreshadow her return.

However, I think there's a very real possibility that we might get her back story, how she came to find TF and everything that happened between Coda and now, in a different series. If they do some sort of show that features Grady, that might be where her history comes in.

And this is a great time to reiterate what Jarod Thompson (one of the actors who played a Grady cop) tweeted. You can see the entire tweet with comments HERE.

Let’s just say that several of those commenting on the tweet and pressing him for information may or may not be in my FB group.;D I think he started to get freaked out because everyone was flipping out over his tweet and pressing him for more. He starts just saying that he’s responding to the announcement, lol. Probably scared of saying too much. But after almost four years, this is practically a confirmation, guys.

Okay. I think I’ll stop there because this is super-long. This episode gave me so much hope. She's super-close guys. I can feel it!

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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frangipanilove · 6 years ago

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The “Mary Magdalene Theory” Part Seven:

Coolers, The North Star, Bears and Beer

My “Mary Magdalene theory”is turning into quite the monster, I hereby present to you part seven (they are picture heavy posts, don’t worry)! This is going to be a direct continuation of the first six posts, so I’m afraid much of this is going to sound utterly ridiculous if you haven’t read parts one to six. But to quickly summarize it I attempt to explain how I believe that The White Trash Brunch from “Alone” is the TWD version of Leonardo Da Vinci’s famous painting “The Last Supper”. The painting depicts Jesus’ last meal with the Apostles the night before sacrificing himself, and to commemorate this last meal Christians perform a ritual (The Holy Communion) by eating small piece of bread, (representing “The Body of Christ”), as well as drinking a small amount of wine (representing “The Blood Of Christ”). Last time I explained how there are certain symbols that keep appearing in the show, and long story short, feet and horses represent “The Body Of Christ” which in turn represents Beth.

In this meta I will try to explain the “Blood Of Christ” part, and the way this affects Beth’s story. In the picture below you’ll find the Frosty Cola and the pigs feet in in center. The Frosty Cola from the White Trash Brunch represents the Blood of Christ, and the show utilizes this symbolism in a multitude of ways. As in parts one to six, most of what I discuss here are symbols and connections that has been subjected to intense analysis within the TD community for years. I do however believe that I can offer some new perspectives.

Let me begin by referring to a deleted scene from 4x12 “Still”, in which Beth and Daryl are walking through the woods, searching for the alcohol she suddenly decided that she needed. Beth explains how she, due to her fathers alcoholism, never drank before, she couldn’t even hold one of those red party cups, she always just had a can of soda instead. It’s a short scene, but in it she manages to mention no less than THREE of the symbols that we’ve known to be so heavy attached to her character. By having her mentioning them, the writers effectively establish a connection between her and the symbols beer, red party cups, and soda cans. I think alcohol in general, but beer specifically, represents Beth. Of course I’m not the first to notice a connection between Beth and beer/alcohol, but I will later explain exactly why I think beer/alcohol is such a potent Beth symbol, and it’s not quite the same that’s been discussed before. But I’ll get back to it.

We first see the red party cups in 4x2 “Infected”, in a scene where Beth bandages Michonne’s ankle (remember how feet represents “The Body of Christ”, as I explained in my last meta), while Judith sits on the floor, playing with red party cups. The cups are purely symbolic, and most importantly, they are red. Red means resurrection, as I explained in part one of this series of posts.

Then 4x4 “Indifference” happens, and it’s an episode so loaded with symbolism I could easily write tens of thousands of words on that episode alone (don’t worry, I won’t). But let’s hone in on the Suicide Gang in the service station that Bob and Daryl search through looking for distilled water for the batteries. Daryl calls them “douchebags”, committing suicide kumbaya style when they could have gotten out instead.

The important part here is not the fact that they committed suicide, it’s HOW they committed suicide. They drank antifreeze from red party cups! The red color symbolizes resurrection through the Mary Magdalene Easter egg symbolism that I discussed in part one. The red objects in the show represents resurrection. Sure, they committed suicide by drinking antifreeze, and yes! Suicide means death, there isn’t really any way around that.

Except there is.

They drank the antifreeze out of red party cups. Red items represents resurrection (due to the red Easter egg symbolism). The resurrection symbolism of the red objects cancel out the death symbolism of the consumption of antifreeze. Antifreeze without the “anti” ? It’s just freeze. A reference to the Frosty Cola from “Alone”. The Blood Of Christ from the symbolic Last Supper/White Trash Brunch!

The antifreeze is a coolant, and cold/cool/icy/frosty is a recurring theme that I’ve been paying attention to for quite some time. The first time it really stood out to me was in 5x10 “Them”. Again, an episode where Beth’s presence is heavily felt all the time. When they enter the barn, they find a walker in a room, and among random clutter on the floor are two blue coolers. In and of itself not highly suspicious, however when the exact same blue coolers appear in the sanctuary in 7x3 “The Cell”, I knew there was a cooler theme going on. On top of the kitchen cabinets in the room that Negan tries to tempt/torture Daryl into accepting, we find two blue coolers, identical to the ones from 5x10 “Them”.

So how are the coolers tied to Beth, and why are they relevant to TD? See, the White Trash Brunch is a parallel to the Last Supper, but not the last supper from the Bible! The last supper from the Da Vinci Code, which is a different thing, and represents something else entirely. The plot of the Da Vinci Code is that Mary Magdalene and Jesus were married, they eventually had a child, and that child carried on the blood line through history and into present day. And the Holy Grail, rather than being a chalice, a drinking vessel, is Mary Magdalene herself, whose remains rests in a secret tomb below the inverted pyramid at the Louvre. I’ve explained the significance of the greenhouses/glasshouses in TWD in earlier posts. They parallel the secret tomb below the inverted glass pyramid at the Louvre, but I won’t go into that here.

The important part is that during the White Trash Brunch/The Last Supper, they drank “Frosty Cola”. Taste that name, it’s virtually antifreeze without the “anti”. When TPTB decided to name that soft drink “Frosty Cola”, they also signaled that everything that is associated with cold, frosty, freezing, cool, coolant, ice and so forth, points back to the White Trash Brunch/Last Supper. Antifreeze, coolers, fridges (remember Jessie’s fridge with the drawing of a blond girl and a car?)...And what’s the ultimate frosty freezing thing imaginable?

North!

The North Star, that always, without exception, points north (let’s not be too rigid and start discussing the difference between The True North and the magnetic North Pole, that’s for a different time). Remember how Beth stared at the polar bear blanket in 5x9 ”WHAWGO”. Also, remember how Beth in the deleted scene from “Still” explained how she always ended up with a can of soda instead of holding those red party cups. And remember how Carl explained to Judith that the North Star was the star to identify if you’re ever lost. And finally, remember how the North Star is at the end of the Little Dipper, and that Beth represents the Little Dipper through the spoon symbolism from “Still”.

@twdmusicboxmystery has made a wonderful edit to illustrate this point:

http://twdmusicboxmystery.tumblr.com/post/143078069994/little-dipper-td-bethgreene-bethgreenelives

So, take in this polar bear from Tyreese’s death hallucination for a second. Notice how it has a red scarf tied around it’s neck:

At this point, we need to discuss bears and bear symbolism. Let me explain! There has been a lot of bear references on the show, and they have a tendency to show up alongside other important Beth symbols. Check out @twdmusicboxmystery’s master post on bear symbolism:

http://twdmusicboxmystery.tumblr.com/post/171698126634/bear-symbolism-master-post

The reason for that is that in my opinion, bears are used as symbols of the Big Dipper and the Little Dipper, or the Greater Bear and the Lesser Bear. The first really significant Beth/bear connection was of course when she picked up the spoon in “Still”, the spoon representing the Little Dipper. The spoon scene, in combination with the scene where Carl talked to Judith about finding the North Star and how it’s located at the end of the Little Dipper, lay the foundation of the rest of the bear references on the show. Because even though Carl was technically right in his description of the North Star being located at the end of the Little Dipper, that’s not actually how you locate the North Star. I believe they wrote the scene like that solely to bring attention to the Little Dipper, and by doing so, connecting it to Beth’s spoon from “Still”.

That brings us to one of my absolute favorite things on the show; the Alaska license plate from 5x16 “Conquer”, that made Aaron the license plate collector so exited. At the time it seemed kind of random, but if you look closely at the license plate, you’ll discover that it has on it an illustration of the Big Dipper, as well as the North Star/Polaris. This is because the Alaska state flag includes this image, and I believe this is the reason why TPTB decided to include this particular license plate in the show. It functions as a way to illustrate how you really go about locating the North Star/Polaris. While the stars in the Little Dipper are faint and difficult to identify on the night sky, the stars of the Big Dipper are among the brightest stars on the night sky, making the Big Dipper one of the easiest constellations to identify. If you want to find the North Star, you first find the Big Dipper. Then you draw an imaginary line from the two stars at the edge of the ladle of the Dipper, and you’ll eventually find the North Star. The Alaska license plate illustrates exactly this, and that is the reason it was included in the episode.

And the reason that is so incredibly important for Beth’s story, is because locating the North Star is the first step of finding you way home when you’re lost. It’s canon, Carl said so! He told it to Judith, but Judith’s not going anywhere for a good while, that conversation was all about Beth.

Also, I can’t resist to mention Daryl’s choice of weapon in his fight with Justin in 9x2. A skillet!

It looks suspiciously like a super-big dipper to me. They could have given any weapon in the world, but they went for something that looks exactly like the Big Dipper.

The next time we encounter any significant North Star symbolism is in 7x2 “The Well”. The writing is literally on the wall in the Kingdom. We see Morgan pushing Carol in a wheelchair past some writings on the wall that reads “Hope is the North Star, let it guide you”. In part six I discussed how wheelchairs represent cars/tombs. Carol in the wheelchair parallels Beth in the car/tomb, but the North Star symbolism on the wall suggests that she made it out of the car/tomb, and will follow the North Star to find her way home. TPTB is blatantly encouraging us to let the North be our guide, and at the same time also emphasizing that the North Star represents hope. Hope is of course something we strongly associate with Beth, due to her “if you don’t have hope, then what’s the point of living” speech in 4x10 “Inmates”. Carol in the wheelchair symbolizes the tomb of Christ.

So! The North Star is located at the end of the Little Dipper, but to find it it will be far more useful to locate the Big Dipper. The Big Dipper consists of the seven brightest stars part of the constellation Ursa Major, which means Greater Bear. It goes under many different names. For those of you in the USA the name The Big Dipper will be most familiar, but in many countries in Europe it’s called “The Plough”. In Scandinavia it’s called “Karlsvogna” (referring to both “Carl’s wagon and “The Man wagon” Interestingly, in 9x1 “A New Beginning”, a plough and a wagon was given a considerable amount of screen time. For those who has read my previous metas on glasshouses with holes through the roof, you might recognize a familiar theme when Ezekiel went through the glass floor (which of course was the ceiling of the floor below, so it lines up perfectly with the glasshouse with holes through the roof theory). As he went through the glass he shouted “Save the plough!”, drawing even more attention to it, really emphasizing how important it was to save it. Now, consider the emphasis on the plough in relation to the fact that the Big Dipper (how you find the North Star) in many countries goes under the name the Plough. Consider how Ezekiel went through a glass floor while carrying the plough. How he shouted “Save it!” You might also have noticed that the wall in the downstairs area he fell into was covered in stars, confirming that there is indeed a star theme present. And ultimately, you might have noticed how a member of (the extended) TF had a close encounter with death but was saved at the last minute, much like we believe Beth was lost in a walker-related incident.

Later, when they were on their way home, they ran into unexpected difficultiesbecause a bridge had collapsed. I recommend reading up on the”Bridge” theme, here’s @twdmusicboxmystery’s master post on bridges:

http://twdmusicboxmystery.tumblr.com/post/175470337254/bridge-theory-master-post

They then encountered a horde, and lost one of their own, not by the walker bite, but rather from the kick from the horse that likely caused internal bleeding. If you’ve read part six of my Mary Magdalene theory you’ll remember how both feet and horses represent “The Body Of Christ”. Shoes are also a part of the “feet/foot” symbolism, and TPTB gave Ken a horseshoe mark on the chest and made sure it was in focus for several seconds, suggesting it has some symbolic meaning. I believe that the horseshoe mark on Ken was put there to remind us of that “The Body Of Christ” symbolism is still in play. This was further confirmed in that all of this took place next to a wagon and a plough.

And what do you know! The plough, (that represents the Big Dipper) got left behind!

I repeat; the plough, which is a different name for the Big Dipper, fell out of the wagon and got left behind! The plough represents the Big Dipper, which is how you identify the North Star. The wagon also actually represents the Big Dipper, as “Karlsvogna/Carl’s wagon” is also a different name for the Big Dipper. And a wagon is naturally symbolic of car/tomb. And I repeat, because this is important, the plough fell out of the wagon and got left behind!!!

(Judging by Maggie and Michonne’s dialogue in 9x2 they later retrieved the plough, but initially it was left behind)

So to summarize; saving the plough was of utmost importance. Ezekiel almost died for it! “The Plough” is a different name for the Big Dipper, and the Big Dipper is important because that’s how you actually locate the North Star on the night sky. The sole purpose of the Alaska license plate from 5x16 was to show how you find the North Star. And the North Star represents finding your way home! Beth finding her way home! Just like Carl explained to Judith in 6x10, and also remember how the writing on the wall in the Kingdom in 7x2 “The Well” encourages us to follow the North Star, to let it guide us, and to keep hope alive!

And now that we’ve established the importance of following North Star, I’d like to remind everyone of Ana’s severed leg in 4x4. She very obviously had a compass tattoo on her leg, TPTB was very diligent in making sure nobody missed that. They zoomed in on her tattoo multiple times, and we were to be very aware of her compass tattoo. Compasses point north.

Then, let me also remind everyone on the foot symbolism from the White Trash Brunch, how the pigs feet on the table established foot/feet as a Beth symbol, representing “The Body Of Christ”. Ana’s leg from 4x4 represents “the Body Of Christ”.

Then, we need to remember how Daryl drew attention to both the pigs feet and the Frosty Cola. All things frosty, freezing, cold, cool, coolers, coolants, polar bears represents something cold, and what could be colder than the actual north? This point is further emphasized in 4x13 “Alone”, when Sasha carries around a broken compass. Obviously this particular compass doesn’t point north because it’s broken, but Sasha stares at it, the camera focuses on it, and the next thing that happens is that we see Maggie “waking up” right next to an ice cream truck. It’s such a random sequence, it makes you think “how do they come up with this stuff”, but really, if you consider the symbolism of it all, it makes quite a lot of sense. They draw attention to the compass, it’s broken. It doesn’t point north. But then we immediately see an ice cream truck (ice cream? Cold. Represents north), and whatever the broken compass was missing in cold/north symbolism, the ice cream truck has plenty of it. And Maggie, who inexplicably decided it was a good idea to lay down to rest on the ground among the dead walkers, suddenly “comes to life”! She wakes up from the dead! North = coming back to life, find your way home after having been lost.

Now, consider again the compass on Ana’s leg. Compasses point north, always, without exception, much like the North Star always points north, always, without exception. The Frosty Cola from the White Trash Brunch represents “The Blood Of Christ”, which in turn makes Ana’s leg a combination of two major Beth symbols: the Body Of Christ and the Blood Of Christ. Feet symbolism and North symbolism in one.

And here’s the amazing part: there has actually been another incident on the show where TPTB utilizes the exact same symbolism!

Remember Boots? The mysterious figure that followed Rick and Aaron back to ASZ after their struggles to get to the food on the house boat on the walker-infested lake? Before I say anything else I want to really stress the fact that Boots followed the guys home! Boot = foot/feet symbolism, which means the Body Of Christ, which in turn represents Beth. We now know that Boots in reality was Tamiel, Jadis’ right hand, but for a while we only knew that character as “Boots”.

“Boots” had red and green wires wrapped around her ankle, and that is no accident. It is a direct callback to 4x4 “Indifference”, where Daryl explains to Bob how you start up a car. “Just use the red and green wires, it’s not rocket science”. Remember car represents the tomb of Christ as I explained in part six.

And of course, the image of “Boots” with the red and green wires around the leg is a perfect parallel to Ana’s leg with the compass tattoo. Because here’s the big thing: when TPTB chose to put such heavy emphasis on the compass, you could say that they in reality were focusing on the compass rose.

That means we can officially introduce rose symbolism into this mess, because behold! On Tamiel’s boot, what do we find, if not a compass rose!!! I believe that the Star thing on Tamiel’s boot is a compass rose! And Tamiel’s boot with the compass rose perfectly parallels Ana’s leg with the compass tattoo, and now I’d like to remind everyone that compasses point North, and following the North Star is how you find your way home, and the wonderful thing is that the compass rose on Tamiel’s boot followed Rick and Aaron home to ASZ!

And we know that’s not a coincidence, because later when Tamiel kidnapped Father Gabriel we got a shot of the back of the car driving away that was an exact parallel to when Beth were kidnapped by the Grady cops.

The compass rose on Tamiel’s boot is interesting, because we’ve actually seen it before. In 6x14 “Twice As Far”, we see a 16-pointed star on the wall in Edison’s Apothecary, where Denise, Daryl and Rosita are searching for antibiotics.

First of all, they were searching for antibiotics, it’s an exact parallel to 4x4 “Indifference”. Then Denise finds a keychain that she holds on to, the camera focuses on it quite a bit, much like in 4x4 when Bob finds a key with a screwdriver keychain. The camera focuses on it, makes us notice it. Then, as they are on their way home, Denise spots a blue cooler in a car. We know by now that coolers represents North/North Star/finding your way home/the “Blood Of Christ”. We also know that cars represents “The Tomb of Christ”.

Denise struggles to get to the cooler, she has to fight for her life to get to it, but she eventually kills the walker in the car, and is awarded with the exact can of soda she was searching for. Remember how Beth in the deleted scene from “Still” mentioned soda cans in the same sentence as the red party cups that represents resurrection. Denise overcoming her struggles and killing the walker in the car (tomb) represents Beth actually getting out of the car/tomb post-Coda. The fact that Denise later dies doesn’t change that, because that happens after she’s won over the walker. She escaped. Then something happened later, but she got herself out of the car situation. She got to the cooler, and got the can of soda. She lived.

But let’s return to the rose/star decoration on the wall, let’s return to the star on Tamiel’s boot. Remember how I in part one described how Abraham found a box of cigars in 6x6 “Always Accountable”. Remember how Tamiel put out a cigar in 7x16, while crouching behind some cars, the camera focusing on the star/rose on her boot, the star that I believe represents a compass rose. It’s a Body Of Christ/ Blood Of Christ symbolism combination, the boot representing the Body Of Christ, the compass rose represents the Blood of Christ through the cooler/coolant/Frosty Cola/North Star symbolism. And then the weird guy with the red umbrella walks by, the red umbrella representing Mary Magdalene and resurrection. It’s the same umbrella the Heapsters utilize to prevent the gates from opening, in an anti parallel to Ana’s leg keeping the gates from closing in 4x4. When TPTB chose to have Ana’s leg keeping the gate open, I think that’s symbolic of rolling away the stone that kept the tomb closed. It’s TPTB’s way of facilitating a hypothetical resurrection.

Now seems like a great time to talk about roses and rose symbolism. Of course when speaking of roses on TWD, one has got to mention the Cherokee Rose. We all remember the beautiful scene with Daryl and Carol, Daryl’s touching monologue about the Cherokee Rose legend. Daryl said that the rose was there to provide hope and strength, hope of finding missing loved ones, hope of finding Sophia. I find the “hope” part interesting because of the writing on the wall in the Kingdom.

Also, there’s the incident where Daryl spots a Cherokee Rose in 6x6 “Always Accountable”. He initially tried to escape from Dwight and the girls, however after realizing that he’d run off with Tina’s insulin he decides to return. The insulin container comes with specific instructions to keep it cold, which makes it a part of the cold/cool/frosty/ice cream/North/North Star symbolism. I also believe that the insulin is a pretty solid “Blood Of Christ” reference, as insulin is injectied in order to regulate blood sugar. Tina, who was basically unconscious at that point, “woke up”.

I believe that the North Star symbolism and the rose symbolism is one and the same. Remember Ana’s leg, with the compass (rose) tattoo. The markings on a compass, a map, a nautical chart etc. that indicates the cardinal directions as well as their intermediate points is called a compass rose. A compass rose usually have 4, 8, 16 or 32 points.

Remember how I initially mentioned that the TWD follows a template of The Da Vinci Code, rather than the Bible? In TDVC, Robert Langdon follows the Rose Line through Paris in order to locate the secret tomb of Mary Magdalene? In a TWD parallel to that, Daryl sees the Cherokee Rose, then decides to follow the rose and return the insulin to Tina. She was unconscious, but thanks to Daryl following “The Rose Line”, she gets the insulin and subsequently wakes up. The symbolism in that is significant. It’s a combination of the rose symbolism and the cold/frosty/North Star symbolism leading to a “resurrection” of sorts.

This is also the same episode where Abraham finds the box of cigars named “Dona Maria”, which is decorated with pink roses. That’s significant both because of the Cherokee Rose/North Star symbolism, but also because Tamiel later will come to act out a callback to this scene by putting out the cigar while the camera focuses on her boot with the compass rose. And for anyone who thinks the symbolism of putting out a cigar sounds scary and ominous, remember that the weird guy with the red umbrella walked by seconds later. Red represents resurrection. Red umbrella represents Mary Magdalene, who in Eastern Orthodox iconography often were depicted holding red Easter egg, representing the resurrection of Christ! To have Tamiel put out the cigar (while the camera focuses on the compass rose on her boot), and then have the red umbrella appear seconds later sort of parallels the Suicide Gang scene from 4x4. Just as the act of suicide is canceled out by the red cups they were drinking out of, Tamiel’s act of “putting out the light” is canceled out by the red umbrella that represents resurrection. And the “Antifreeze” from 4x4 without the “Anti” represents freeze/frosty/ice cream/North Star, just like the compass rose on Tamiel’s boot represents north/North Star.

Finally, let me say a few words on alcohol in general, and beer in particular on TWD. Much has been said about how alcohol represents Beth. I agree with all the existing theories on that, and I’d like to offer my interpretation of alcohol as a symbol. I’ll later do a theory on the Sirius/Dog Star symbolism and how whenever they use the word “Serious” on this show, it is code for Sirius. I know it sounds absolutely ludicrous, but I’ve systematically gone through all the the episodes after 4x1 and out and checked. There is not one single instance of anyone using the word “serious” on TWD post season 4 that cannot be tied to some sort of Beth symbolism. I dare you to find an example, I promise you that it will be tied to Beth. I’ve checked. But I won’t get into that too much here, because it belongs in a different theory, and I’ll get back to it later. But one very bright anonymous reader of @twdmusicboxmystery suggested that just like the writers use “serious” as code for “Sirius”, perhaps they use “beer” for “bear”?

!!!!!!

And I thought THAT’S BRILLIANT WHY DIDN’T I THINK OF THAT?

And I went through every “bear” reference on the show (well, most of them), and it totally fits! As we know, “bear” represents the Big Dipper and the Little Dipper, or in bear terms; Greater Bear and Lesser Bear. And the North Star, as we know, is at the end of the Little Dipper/Lesser Bear.

Thank you to that very clever anon!

http://twdmusicboxmystery.tumblr.com/post/177659080279/im-thinking-beer-maybe-was-a-hint-that-actually

The beautiful part is that this connection was flat out CONFIRMED in the season 4 finale of Fear. Spoiler alert, I’ll now totally reveal what happened in the Fear season finale, stop reading if you don’t want to know.

First of all, the entire back half revolves around a character we don’t see much of, but in return we hear about him constantly; Polar Bear! I swear I’m not making this up. So in regards to Beth, we remember how she stared at a polar bear blanket in 5x10 “WHAWGO”. We’ve established that all things cold/frosty/freezing/Polaris polar bear/North Star on the show represents Beth. So, here, on Fear, is a character whose name is Polar Bear. Ok.

In an incredible parallel to the Antifreeze Suicide Gang from 4x4 “Indifference”, the “Team Family” of Fear were poisoned by Martha, the villain, who had put antifreeze in their drinking water. The antidote to antifreeze is ethanol, or to put it plainly; alcohol.

Luckily there was a truck filled with alcohol just outside the service station(!), so it seemed like they’d make it. But then walkers attacked, shooting ensued and unfortunately the ethanol truck got perforated with bullets and the ethanol leaked out.

Well that was all very unfortunate, but just when they seemed to be doomed, Morgan showed up with Jimbo’s beer truck! And there you have it. Antifreeze is poison, but without the “anti” it’s just freeze! Frosty! Ice cream! Coolers! Polar bear! North! North Star! Antifreeze is death, but if you take away the “anti” you get “freeze” which is life. It’s both stupid and wonderful all at once!

Get it? They drank beer, in Polar Bear’s service station. It saved their lives!!!

And we see that the ethanol theme continues in s9 of TWD. Apparently it is the Sancuary’s responsibility to provide ethanol fuel for the wehicles in all the communities, and it will be very interesting to follow that theme going forward.

#bethyl #team delusional #team defiance #beth greene #beth x daryl #td

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