#THIS IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THE WORKPLACE

[frogeyedape]

What is a women-only space, really? Vs, say, a women-majority space? Take the stance of someone who doesn't judge gender by appearance, because gender presentation =/= gender identity. How do you know who is a woman, who is woman aligned, who is fem or femme, who is a butch woman? How do you know that the person you see is sometimes a woman? Usually a woman? A woman 50% of the time? A woman today but not tomorrow? How--and why--would you exclude any of these women, even on days when they're genderfluxed away from womanhood?

Masc appearance, looks typically cis-male: but you don't judge, and this person entered a space "for women," and is acting civil, respectful, etc? Is he a he/him butch lesbian woman? An actual cis man? You don't know, but you do know she saw a space for women and thought it appropriate to enter. Will you interrogate her, thereby needlessly alienating her if she does meet your standard of womanhood? Maybe you'll have caught her out as a she/her trans butch who doesn't specify her AGAB. Maybe she's a she/her cis man with a really unique take on feminizing masculinity. God, would you kick her out? You don't know!!She's not in it for a lark. She's been assaulted for asking others to respect her she/her pronouns in her male dominated tech culture workplace. Sometimes she wears skirts in public. Ball gowns at home. Maybe she's an egg. Maybe she stays cis, but embraces feminity, aims to be the most beautiful man she can be. Would you exclude her if you knew all that? But how would you find that out except by letting her in and listening to her?

This isn't even scratching the surface of the issue of How Do You Tell. I've posited a civil, respectful person who's gender you don't or can't judge by looks alone. Women aren't all, and certainly no woman is always, perfectly nice, polite, respectful. Sometimes we scream. Yell. Argue! Get physical. Are snide. Are mean. Are hateful and judgmental. Catcall. Whistle. Gaze at another woman. Interrupt speeches. Start chants. March on the capital. Start riots. Hit cops. Lament. Rage. Despair. Love earnestly.

There is no masculine behavior that a woman has never done. Tone policing is a vital tool of white supremacy; requiring absolute civility is a tool of white supremacy.

Who would I exclude from women's spaces? Intentionally? Unintentionally? I don't know that I could exclude anyone based on broad sweeping characteristics without unintentionally excluding women I want to include.

Even saying "if a person feels comfortable walking into a women's space, they're welcome" implicitly excludes:

Trans women who've been hit by transphobia and don't know if this is a women-inclusive space or a wombyn's radfem space

People who don't know they're women yet, but would hear so much that they needed to when listening to women tell stories just like theirs. Stories they didn't know are women's stories.

Women who aren't always, or aren't exclusively, women

Cis women who have been excluded from women's spaces before, maybe for race or an accident of genetics or something else

Women who don't feel comfortable in women's spaces for any of an infinite number of reasons

Maybe. Just maybe. I might say something like this: this is an inclusive women's space. I know that's a loaded term, women's space. We've got history of female separatists, both trans exclusive and trans inclusive. "Women" is not a homogenous, monolithic group. Women are just people, each to be judged on their own accumulated behavior & actions. Everyone is welcome here who is a woman, was a woman, might become a woman, everyone who has ever loved a woman, envied a woman, desired feminity for themself. I'll ask that if you self identify as a man that maybe you listen a lot more than you talk in this space, but you don't have to be silent. It is good to get an outside perspective sometimes. And who knows, maybe in listening you'll see that women aren't all that different than men. Maybe you'll realize you could be a woman. We're all just people, after all.

okay my question, genuinely, to trans men in the transandrophobia space, is this:

upon what grounds can someone justifiably be excluded from a womens space if not their gender? if trans men should be allowed into womens spaces, then why not cis men? i mean, theyre men, we're men, and if we're allowed in, why shouldnt they be? "they dont face the same struggles that we do!" lmao some of them do!

its just perplexing why the statement "the only reason someone can justifiably be excluded from a gender segregated space is that they are not the gender that the space is for" is so fucking offensive to people all on its own? like yeah yeah our struggles but like we are still men, right? and these spaces are for women, right? so why is "you are being excluded for being a man" when you are one treated like this absurdly offensive thing or like theres "no reason" for it. there is one! youre a guy lol.

whether you think that you should be excluded for being a guy or not is not the question im asking here-- its that, if being a man is not a justifiable reason to exclude someone from a womens space, then what is lmao?

[homunculus-argument]

Somebody with a fetish for appropriate workplace safety regulation compliance, who can't figure out how to find porn because they get instantly turned off when they see the arconym NSFW.

[undeadboyfriendsupportgroup]

(shoves this in your hand and runs off a cliff)

*this isn't a genderbend or anything they're both transmasc with big naturals thanks for coming to my Ted Talk

[scullyscatholicguilt]

what was the reason for this

[gonnadosomethingwmylife]

do y’all remember the criminal minds episode where the team had to go to a sexual harassment seminar mostly because of how derek and penelope talk to each other? Suits could’ve done something really funny.

I just want a normal person overhearing harvey call his associate a good boy or any one of their weird as fuck conversations and being like what the FUCK dude and reporting it,,,mikes embarrassed bc he doesn’t MIND and he gives it right back in his own way but everyone sitting at this seminar clearly aimed at harvey at mike,,,i think it would be really funny

[teruel-a-witch]

'i'll walk you out' and other totally appropriate workplace touching 😏

that time Steve declared his intentions in a roundabout way

and then carried them out in the same episode ↓

by Steve's own definition he tried to go to second base with Danny 😏 his own words from earlier basically confirm this kind of touch isn't platonic, even if they hadn't just had an entire conversation about how it's not. (the funniest thing is it was entirely unnecessary for Steve to walk Danny out of his office, even if they weren't going to the same place, it's not like Danny couldn't find his own way after 7 years, so Steve really just wanted to cop a feel.)

meanwhile, Danny has gone there in S3 😉

[pawbeanies]

made a slightly risque joke at work today and coworker that sits next to me laughed and went "woah little chuu has a side we don't know about huh !! youre always so quiet" like ummm. ummm. no i dont .........

[horsetailcurlers2]

it’s a bummer that greys anatomy got progressively less horny over time (idk the details bc i streamed it but i assume they switched time slots at some point or something) BUT i will say there will always be something so insanely erotic about tying someone else’s scrub cap before they go into the OR. like, why don’t you just stick your tongue in their mouth while ur at it

[fakeasmr]

i don't like wearing them but I still keep my old jeans just in case I ever have to be employed again

[starlightbelle]

I’ve never been big on the Izuku/Ochako pairing myself (I like their dynamic better as buddies) but it’s cracking me up that the epilogue is Izuku going “hey Ochako! I wanna hang out more, is that what you want too?”

And then they shake hands

[biqueuerious]

one of the best things i’ve done for my mental health was buy a pair of pants in my favorite color that I can wear to work

[allegoricalophelia]

sidenote this is gonna make me sound so insanely pathetic but i literally cannot believe that my old job at [redacted large tech company] messed up my relationship with feedback so bad that i need to do mindfulness exercises before reading my ao3 comments

[runawaymarbles]

new least favorite part of the job: dress code enforcement

[moreaujeans]

how is it only tuesday 😭😭

[only-one-brain-cell]

“I just er.”

“Yeah I know.”

“Good, because I mean it:” THEN SAY IT

[stubborn-string-bones]

Welp! Hung out with our longtime former ED at an event and it turns out I'm holding a grudge, maybe forever. Shit may be exponentially more fucked up now and I do not hold her responsible for the actions of others but also like, get the fuck off that high horse

you gave that man an engraved invitation into this house