#THANK U FOR DA ASK
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Do you play any games?
yeag :) i like sonic gamez, minecraft, i like 2 emulate gamecube and playsatation games. i liek point-n-clicks, & i find shitty licensed games extreemly interesting 2. ive mentiond before but i also like valve gams and halo, i like sum rpgs too like lisa the painful, earthbound, undertall... i got a 2nd hand copy of sonic heroez for the gc the other day. excited 2 replay that piece of work
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🫶 for annette?
annie hates ear wormy songs bc theyre at odds with her habit of singing silly songs to herself while doing things. they infect her silly songs with their stinky melodies and she gets mad when she realizes it's happening
she's in a one sided blood feud with sam hunt because of body like a back road
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💛🙃🎤 !
💛 Do you have any piercings?
one on each earlobe, had them done when I was un bebé and havent worn earrings since like. 6th grade? They haven’t closed but they’ve bled every time I’ve tried to wear earrings again so I don’t bother w them
🙃 What’s a weird fact that you know?
uhh well I was reading TVTropes today so here’s a fact I learned: all mentions of Germany in the English localization of Ace Attorney are replacements. In the original Japanese, America is mentioned instead. So in Japanese, the Von Karmas are American, and in English, they’re German. So yeah! Their names are likely different between languages too afaik. This is less of a weird fact and more random/niche lol
🎤 Is there a song you know all the lyrics to?
if I listen to any song often enough I usually learn its lyrics so there’s a couple I could bring up. Bohemian Rhapsody, some Beatles and tfb songs, some Jesus Christ superstar songs, you know how it is
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how about 6 and 23 from the ask game for spirit and stein!
🌙 Casual F/Ovember Ask Game 💫
Be honest, what was your first impression of s/i when you first met them?
🍓 "Do I really have to be honest?"
💉 "Worried you'll make them angry?"
🍓 "W-well, my first impressions of them weren't the, uh, nicest...?"
💉 "Neither were mine. I've little trust for witches, let alone one that Death had been hiding for nigh on centuries, so my first thoughts on meeting Styx was that they were a threat and a fascinating oddity."
🍓 "Of course you make it even weirder with your...weirdness. I mean, I guess I wasn't too different when I first learned about Styx. I was still healing from my last fight with a witch, and turns out there was another one right under my nose! And they were creepy, just, sitting there in that dark little cell..."
💉 "You might want to stop there, Senpai..."
Be honest— do you easily get jealous?
💉 "Not particularly. Styx dislikes most people, so I can be sure they will summarily curse anyone they don't like getting close."
🍓 "You say that, but I can see you getting all pouty every time we cuddle on the couch without you."
💉 "I do not pout."
🍓 "You're doing it right now! Aaaanyway, I probably get more jealous than I really should, I just can't help myself. I get paranoid about it."
💉 "Hypocrite..."
#swamp wisdom#rorytanu#THANK U FOR DA ASK#takeover tag#takeover; stein#takeover; spirit#ship; triptych souls
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9. What's a line your muse won't cross under any circumstance?
Questions for Problematic/Villain muses
There aren't many lines he would not cross, considering he was very much ready to drown the world in horrid curses in the form of scalding black mud and Evil Incarnate--and seems to have succeeded in doing so in at least one timeline. He is ready to sacrifice anything for his goal.
However, if there is something that he (surprisingly for some, perhaps) would not do, it is to mercilessly ridicule and torment someone who has already been beaten down. An example of it that I can immediately think of is when Vitch is tormenting some of the people in the first lostbelt, and Kirei tells her with no small amount of annoyance to cut it out, as they have already lost everything.
Taunting does not seem to be something he enjoys, when put in serious situations.
#answers from the confessional.#erabaretaunmei#thank u for da ask#<3#god doth know that I have turned away my former self. ( headcanons )
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bro I must read your fanfic thing (it was the first time I read a fanfic) and it was fantastic! Great job! :D
yyaay thanks for reading! my fanfic thing!! im glad you liked it !
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please draw something soft with little pq dirk and alpha dave or the silly pq older one iregrhgh ur art makes me so so sad abt them in the best way ever plsplspls
HI ANON. oh my god sorry for keeping you waiting this long. i wanted to do something nice for you but truth be told... i struggle with drawing people hugging & similar stuff. historically. but ur rq is WAY overdue so!! i did my best.
i only hope this reaches you alrighht... i wish it notified anons when their asks are answered ahgfdjksgg ;w; thank u so much for this and again so sorry it took this long...
#anonymous#asks#homestuck#hom3stuck#home24uck#home2t4ck#dave strider#dirk strider#alpha dave#alpha dave strider#alpha bro#alpha bro strider#candy dave#candy dave strider#striders#pesterquest#admin draws#fanart#if you go far back enough on my blog u can see that i have been insane about candy dave and dirk for a long long time#I STILL HAVENT REPLAYED HIS PQ ROUTE. BUT I NEED TO#once i do i want to draw them again and dispense some thoughts... but for now u get da fluff. and its like 1 am so id better hustle to bed#also thank you everyone for refilling my askbox! i cant wait to get to all of these ehe
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not to mention the entire antaam fleet like 😭 that was the PERFECT moment to show off what the lords could do!!! The antaam fucked over rivain, theyve been a thorn in the whole nations side for a long time now, they would not pass up a chance for payback via full scale naval warfare so that the veilguard can do what they need to!! Sure dreadnoughts are dangerous but at this point they probably have tricks up their sleeve, thats one of the few things they have!
also wouldn't it be personal because does solas not try to blow up kont-aar because he's trying to 5d chess tevinter and the qunari into destroying each other. like. i know technically this would not be incredible widespread news because the attack was stopped, but i don't think the wonderful citizens of kont-aar would have missed the tsunami that nearly hit them and the shockwave that actually hit them. rumors go around. and i assume irian/vadis tell varric. who i think would tell isabela. who would tell the group she leads. who would care because ofc, they LIVE IN RIVAIN, and now know that solas and his followers thinks they can trade rivaini lives* to further his plans.
*while i also think there's probably a divide between kont-aar and the rest of the nation, it's one that the rivaini love to jump across and back over. an interesting comparison to be made here with most of rivain having similar sentiments towards dairsmuid and the chantry. like this is the country specifically mentioned to have a lot of citizens who follow the qun/are non-andrastian + it being MUCH more multicultural and accepting than other nations. any attack on rivain, even if it's a qunari settlement, would fan a lot of flames that solas cannot put out so the idea of trying to him taking multiple steps back because he didn't realise how intensely the qun/rivaini/lords would react is very fun for me. it would have been soo interesting for rivain to be a hub for efforts against solas because of how it's not influenced by andrastianism, how he (or his agents) specifically fucked them over, and (maddeningly for solas) also part of this resistance has spirits who willingly guide them against him. this could have even been a plot device where the door goes both ways and solas finds out rook's plans because he manages to eavesdrop through a seer or something.
and on the spirits. all the stuff where the mourn watch regularly communicates with spirits could have been done with rivain as well, and with different takes on being 'friendly' with spirits. iirc there's a spirit in the hall of valor which is so interesting but it's literally just there for flavour text. THERE'S A SPIRIT IN THE HALL OF VALOR THAT DOES NOTHING BESIDES LIKE. SAY HI. ??? bioware i would have liked to see more spirits and seers and the matriarchal pantheists you have talked about please. and also the idea of the peaceful qunari settlement being pushed to protect the country they are part of and what that means for them as qunari vs. rivaini. taash's storyline could have contributed to this . so A LOT less about choosing a side, more about how kont-aar has developed, changed, how rivain has influenced it and what it means to be qunari. not the qunari agents and fighters that we have seen, but their 'civillian' way of life in kont-aar.
complete waste not seeing any of established lore reflected in the lords of fortune or rivain because i stupidly actually thought we were going to see some kind of settlement and be introduced to a very different cultural norms.. in my beautiful mind i like to think taash is a little taken aback by how badly mages/elves/etc are treated. like they understood it was different outside of rivain (they would have been young when the dairsmuid circle annulment happened right? so they don't 'remember' it themself, they likely heard others talking about it when they're old enough to understand) but until they actually saw what was happening first hand, they had a weird dissonance about it. but what we got was a deserted beach, ties to another faction (wardens are fine!! they are great !!!! the fourth blight is interesting!!!! yet they are not the faction with a lack of info about them!!!!!) and also the hall of valor that exists as flavor text with nothing meaningful behind it besides a pub used in a few cutscenes and a minigame.
#it's just hard to discuss the qunari in general when it is so obviously written to be quote unquote bad#and theyre like. in veilguard. really just reduced to being an invading force. which they were before. but there's literally nothing else#not a single character that explains more about the qun or how it operates + the game presenting choices about taash#that obviously lean towards favoring rivain. god knows why. its not like we know enough about it to choose it#even a quick peek into a rivaini lifestyle would have been helpful. all we know are from lorebooks !!!!#its actually like. 'qun would have made taash into a weapon/they are actively invading treviso/theyre working w ghil+el/shathaan' etc#and then on rivain's side the points are just 'umm. well the lords are super nice. and love freedom... and its also NOT qunari!'#there ARE reasons to pick rivain just none of them are in the fuck ass game. no one who doesnt read the books would know this shit#does anyone know why the antaam are acting outside of their orders. i dont rmb if this was explained or if its supposed to be like#a very severe response to solas and defying orders to 'deal' with a threat?#but god. kont-aar as it exists is so interesting. maybe elements of like .#'the main qun ignore the changes in kont-aar/rivain because it's such an important part of their trade' situation. idk#i just cant see a lot of the extremely rigid qun followings actually meshing with this extremely 'accepting' culture that is in rivain#eg. rivaini seers allowing possessions vs. sareebas#but its said that the rivaini pantheists actually have lots in common with the teachings of the qun (?)#and again. its peaceful. most of the issues that are mentioned in games/etc are to do with the ORLESIAN chantry causing issues in rivain#so it just. makes me think. maybe things have changed and there's a blind eye to whatever happens in kont-aar#or if there are more hostilities or issues caused by their differing beliefs then it would be good to fucking like. hear about it#plus the qun in general is just. worldbuilding standpoint is like. what. im not a guy who knows too much about this part of da lore so#i had to fact check a few things while writing this response and some of the answers were like#just so unbelievable that im choosing to do whatever i want#anyways. sorry. got out of hand. let me know if anything i said isnt true#its entirely possible. my knowledge of rivain is patchwork but this is probably to do with the fact there's not a lot. yeah#god. i have to stop talking now. thank u anon for agreeing w me. sorry u asked me about the lords and i took it as an excuse#to air out my issues w rivain. because tyche was partially built up around that and then none of it even mattered#veilguard spoilers#answered#rivain
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i literally love ur blog LMAOOOO
STOP !!?
#what da hell you are so sweet#guhh#thank u muchness i try to curate a good vibe on here#idk if i succeed but i will hold onto this ask 4ever#sage’s asks
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♖ Varlas Vas'danan ♖
Race: Elf
Class: Warrior
Faction: Shadow Dragons
My boy is here to kick slaver ass and fight God ⚡
***
Art by @saintlethanavir
#da rook#varlas vas'danan#oc: varlas#dav#dragon age: the veilguard#veilguard#dragon age#dragon age art#art#paptalk#thank u again lev i love youuuuu#also no giving varlas a last name knowing that the game will give him a different last name is not a mistake#I'll just choose not to perceive it#also he's kissing davrin as if u even had to ask
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2, 22 and 32 from the fifty (more) rook questions?
fifty (more) rook queries!! | under a readmore bc u asked me to write things, and also spoilers -
2. A scene from Rook’s year with Varric and Lace:
~*~
"Okay so let me get this straight," Varric began, eyes glinting in the firelight. "When you hear the Blight, you just get a distant rumble, but your friend Antoine actually hears voices?"
"Yeah...it affects each Warden differently, at least that's what I was figuring out," Seht replied as Varric rapidly wrote down her words. "For me, the Blight's like...thunder, in my head. An approaching storm that gets louder when I get closer. Antoine says he hears a song, or chanting, but that's only if he focuses on it."
"And he's not a mage?" Lace ventured, eyes wide. "I mean - in one of Varric's books -"
"Anders was an entirely weird case, Blondie had a ton of his own problems," Varric interrupted without looking up from his notes. "It was probably exacerbated by Justice, come to think'f it."
"Antoine's not a mage," Seht confirmed. "Sometimes he'd use it to tease Evka, though. Madly in love, they are."
"Okay, this I gotta hear!" Lace insisted. Seht chuckled, though thinking of her friends - the only two people she'd met at Weisshaupt that didn't look at her twice - made her heart ache. Of everything she'd done with the Wardens, they were what Seht missed most. "How'd he do it?"
"Well - one time, when we were on patrol in the mountains, there would be times Antoine would stop along the edge of the cliffs," Seht began, "since he was our scout most of the time. At one of his stops, though, he lingered too long so Evka went to check on him. 'I 'ear it, the voices' -"
Here Seht tried to mimic Antoine's Orlesian accent, which sent Lace to giggling and even drew a soft laugh out of Varric.
"More nose, Rook, but not bad," he advised. Seht grinned before resuming the story.
"'So there's darkspawn nearby? Blight?' Evka asks. 'The voices - they say I must fall -' Antoine replies, starting to play it up a little. Leaning out over the edge and all. He starts getting out far enough that Evka grabs him, pulls him back hard enough they both fall to the ground. And Antoine just looks up at her grinning and says, 'You see? I have fallen - right into your arms, my love.'"
"That. I'm keeping that," Varric laughed.
~*~
22. In Rook’s opinion, was the best meal Bellara prepared? And Lucanis? OOF tough call. My brain is still mostly a sieve of what they cook (*kicking myself*), but I would reckon that Bellara's best meal that Seht enjoys would be a stir-fry over rice with fish or venison. Lucanis, her beloved? The hazelnut torte and coffee, of course ;)
32. Did Rook uncover Solas’s memories? Any particular revelation shake them especially? YEP, Seht definitely did. Better to know your enemy that get outplayed by him after managing to surprise him once. I think Seht was most disturbed by the confirmation of the truth surrounding the creation of the Golden/Black City as Solas's original prison for the Evanuris and the true nature of the Archdemons - both from a Warden's point of view, heavily suggesting that each of the previous five Blights killed off not only the Archdemon but also their associated Evanuris (and, later on, when realizing that the very life-force of the Evanuris fuels the Veil's existence, thus weakening the Veil when an Archdemon dies), as well as Andrastian - if Solas created the Golden/Black City and the Old Gods of Tevinter were thralls of the Evanuris, then does the Maker exist at all? What does this make Andraste and her story? Deep down Seht echoed Lace's unease at the revelation, but is also determined that there still has to be some truth to the Andrastian myth - after all, elements of it are proven true (the magisters trying to break into the prison, unleashing the Blight back into Thedas), so there must be something out there to also verify the core elements of Andrastianism. Although no adherent of the Chantry, Seht isn't about to lose the one element of faith she does have in her life because part of elven myth is true.
#thank u for asking!!!! i wish i could get a better answer for 22 out of my head x_x#dragon age#dragon age veilguard#da: seht thorne#dav rook#dragon age veilguard spoilers#veilguard spoilers#datv spoilers
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hello! i was perusing your ‘vee-verse’ timeline and noticed that you have arl howe poisoning arl eamon in loghain’s name. i know canonically the circumstances surrounding the poisoning of that old man are, broadly speaking, temporally interesting, and that does seem like a satisfying way of resolving it to me, but i was wondering if you had any more developed ideas on what arl howe’s game would be with that premise?
like, from a watsonian perspective, if you’ll forgive the usage of the term, what was his long term plan if ostagar hadn’t gone down the way it did? was the intent to generally sow discord btwn the king & his advisors, or was there a motivation behind framing loghain specifically? what’s the political motivation for going after eamon outside of the whole ‘civil war ending landsmeet’ context? i suppose it’s enough that he was powerful & influential/would have reinforced cailan wrt responding to the cousland business..? unless there’s another angle i’m missing.
Lest…i am simply taking all of it too seriously and it’s just that someone had to take the dipshit cartoon villain plan L??? i come to you, in humble supplication, for your thoughts. thank you for your time!
AT LAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HAVE BEEN WAITING 84 YEARS FOR SOMEONE TO ASK ME ABOUT THISSSSS
RIGHT OK so my understanding of rendon howe's character is that he feels DEPRIVED. "maker spit on you, i deserved more." his LAST WORDS, and to me, it's so revealing about his intentions.
he gave everything to the rebellion - his father sided with orlais. howe fought against his own family for ferelden. the couslands executed his father, and his uncle - who also fought for the rebellion - was put up as the arl of amaranthine. howe fought at the battle of white river - he was so injured during the battle that leonas bryland and bryce cousland had to drag him off. the battle of white river happened after maric disappeared, while the southern army was searching for him. the northern army fought off two new regiments of chevaliers before they could cross the border and storm the hinterlands.
and it was a catastrophic loss.
only 50 rebel soldiers survive. howe was so injured he couldn't rejoin the army. imagine you're rendon howe. queen moira is dead. you have given everything to this rebellion, fighting on even as the prince has disappeared. you don't really know if you're going to recover, or even if you do, if you'll ever be the way you were before the war. your friends stay with you, for a little while, but they leave and rejoin the army, they go on fighting without you.
bryce, equally complicit in the loss at the battle of white river, your friend, who only injured his arm protecting you, recovered enough to take part in the rest of the war, destroys a dozen ships in the battle of denerim harbour with the seawolf herself. his father dies - not because of the rebellion, but an illness - and when he goes home to bury his father, everyone lines up to swear fealty to him. even your own people swear fealty to him, before you. you, who gave everything to claim this country's freedom. you, who stood apart from your own father to protect the nation. you, now stuck in south reach, tended to by bryland's sister. and even bryland gets a medal of valour, for making the journey. what do you get, for the blood you spilt? what do you get for your sacrifices?
prince maric - now king - is found. a new general at his left hand. some fucking nobody poacher, some fucking farmer's son pretending at lordship. rumours of a battle in gwaren, that this commoner was in, and how king maric survived the battle, their forces won against great odds and were able to push the orlesians back unlike at the battle of white river. the commoner is promoted. the southern army, with maric in tow, attack west hill with the idea of crippling the chevaliers' resources. they lose the battle, but loghain - this fucking commoner - ensures maric survives, and somehow maric walks away with half their forces dead and a new treaty with the legion of the dead. king maric, with his left hand commander, reclaims gwaren for ferelden; orlesian forces flee.
and then, of course, the battle of river dane. two regiments of chevaliers sent over the river. loghain mac tir, this commoner made commander, somehow wins. it's a pivotal, historic win. the loss at river dane makes emperor florian retract his support of meghren's occupation of ferelden. without this support, meghren's forces retreat to fort drakon, and meghren himself is killed by maric in a year's time. for his victory at the battle of river dane, this commoner maric found by the roadside is named teyrn of gwaren.
what do you get? what do you get for your sacrifices?
ok enough of that, i hope u get the idea. that's why i do think he targeted loghain specifically, though. and i do think he planned to sow discord between cailan and loghain - if you talk to the soldiers at ostagar, they do mention that loghain and cailan have been arguing for a while, even before the battle preparations. loghain's legitimacy as teyrn and the commander of the king's army comes from his personal connection and relationship with maric, and by extension, the theirin line. you can see how quickly the bannorn turn on him, and anora, the moment cailan dies. irrespective of whether you believe he did it on purpose or not (and i, personally, do not believe he somehow rigged the entire battle of ostagar so as to leave cailan to die, but ymmv), the fact is that the entire civil war is a rebellion against loghain, and i've talked a bit specifically here abt why that is kind of... insane to think abt, contextually. i think that's specifically bc loghain has a commoner's background and is not nobility by birth. i suspect that howe's plan was to kill the couslands, pin the blame on loghain and watch this already unstable relationship between the theirins and the mac tirs explode. and if that wasn't enough - and honestly, it was a pretty shoddy scheme considering loghain and his forces are all at ostagar at the time of the murder and cailan himself does not seem to suspect loghain of the act (if you play the cousland origin, he seems to already know abt the couslands dying before you demand justice for what was done to your family, so i assume that holds true irrespective of whether or not the warden is a cousland), which i take as a vote of confidence in loghain as opposed to cailan simply not knowing abt the attempt to blame loghain - then he'd continue on with eamon, and then likely teagan, etc, until he successfully shattered the theirin-mac tir relationship... or sowed enough discontent with the bannorn that they would collectively push cailan to act, even if he didn't necessarily think it was warranted.
i think howe would have thought he'd be content with the teyrnir, whether it was bryce's or loghain's, but the way he decided to kidnap anora independently of loghain... and imprisons her in his estate, his house where he lives... a few rooms down from where we know the bedrooms are if we played the city elf origin... the flimsy accusation of treason for her imprisonment, acting like loghain ordered him to do it... when loghain himself consistently & firmly argues that he is anora's regent (presumably because his daughter is... oh... idk... mourning her recently deceased husband mayhaps???...) and the general of her armies but that anora is already the queen ferelden has & needs... when in actuality anora came to confront him about some dark rumours she heard abt her father...
to me, that says he's already plotting his next steps - take loghain out of the picture, marry anora himself and assume the throne. idk what he thought he was gonna do about teagan, but i assume it wouldn't have been pretty.
but again!!! this is all my headcanon and based off my interpretations of canon events and information, and not canonically true or factual! so ymmv!
#asks#vee rewrites da#THANK U SO MUCH FOR THIS ASK I'VE BEEN WAITING 500 YEARS TO TALK ABT HOWEGATE#ALSO. WAHHHH YOU WERE GOING THROUGH THE TAG??? ;~; YOU GUYS ACTUALLY READ THAT STUFF??? ;~;#TYSM THIS MADE MY DAY <3
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anyway heres my bad omens sillies contribution
NO FREAKIGN WAYYYYYYYY
#THANK YOU FOR INDULGING ME ON THE BOMENS SILLIES UE UE UEEEEEEEEEEE#YIPPEEEEE YAYYYYYY TEEHEEEEEEEEEEE DOES A HAPPY LIL DANCE#SORRY FOR ANSWERING THIS A BIT LATE BUT JUST KNOW THAT WHEN I FIRST SAW THIS I WAS ECSTATIC WHEEEEEEEEEE#OH THIS IS GORGE!!! THEYE FEESH!!!!! MERMENS ... BAD OMERMMENS .....#oh oh ohhhh theyre so fun thyerye so funn and silly and good#thank you again i love this#HEHEHEE FED FOR ANOTHER DAY i live to see the sun rise another time DFGHD#also feel free to tell me what u want me to doodle back via asks or reblog this and answer in da tags uwahhh ty again <333#den's bad omens#sunnysideanswers#autocorrection#sunnysidegifts
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I actually for real feel like my phone's scanning quality has dropped monumentally while I was away on thing so that's a fun thing to figure out now. anyways
#sk8 the infinity#kyan reki#hasegawa langa#renga#answering of ''sure'' whenever they ask ''are you gay'' strikes again#gods. genuinely at least on the export the quality of these dropped like to half. whats up with that#sorry if these are impossible to parse#anyways. scribbled these during ''holiday'' ''vacation'' ''getaway'''#sometimes it really is the simple things. hallucinating vividly about the casual life of a pair of teens to survive being in a car for 6hrs#WITH da family#so glad I picked up scribbling on paper again. I actually got stuff to do digitally today and!! literally it feels so much cleaner#like I feel like I relearned a bunch stuff doing traditional ink again for a sec#but yeah. u guys should know by now how much I think about food as a concept#took 3m off last year to write about it in fact. but now Im just microdosing by drawing langa#I'm also actually so insane about reki being a scaredy cat it's so. something. it means so much to me#this of course means koyomi is a jumpscare champion. among siblings that are close in age there must be#the one who sleeps in the lower bunk. and the one who ties a doll to a string by its neck and lower it down to be next to the others face#'why is that so specific' no further question. thank you#gods okay. I need to lay the fuck down it is now my time. to be in bed#Im onto some real exciting stuff rn! and when this piece is done I'll return to ink for a sec#so uh. ink comm maybe not this week. but the next#happy late labor day! seek and destroy. have a good night
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psssst r u gonna bring back hawke hawke 👀
well very sadly/joyously I finished the da2 playthrough comics the other day, but dw!!! u can expect to see our beloved Hawke Hawke return in the adventures of Inquisitor Inq'isita!!!
#i have SEVERE da brainrot atm so also expect some average canon-fanon hawke stuff soon lolll#thanks for the ask!#also :D ahhhhh i love how much ppl love mine n dino's silly little comments!! u wanna see more hawke hawke!!#and woahhhh a fandom ask that isnt the star war... im genuinely in shock this never happens
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people calling you the yaoi op artist is so fun to me. ive been here since hlvrai and i have no knowledge of op ive just stuck around for the vibes
and you're so real and valued for that. thank you for being here i hope you enjoy all my current and future yaoi there is tons more to come
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