#TAI LUNG'S CHARACTER ARC

[zandrawz]

Finally watched Kung Fu Panda 4, tell me why it unironically changed my life

[alfairy]

Ngl I’m kinda confused why the plot of KFP4 is “Po needs to find and train the next dragon warrior” when they’re literally right there

[peaches-the-heathen]

In honor of Kung Fu Panda 4 being announced i have officially fulfilled my childhood dream and made a bad ass cat kung fu panda oc

[eosofspades]

i actually disagree that it would nullify the point of his character. redemption would be a very narratively and thematically satisfying ending for him.

the "point" of tai lung's character in the first movie wasn't that he was ontologically evil or had chosen, now and forever, that he wanted to be bad for the sake of being bad. the reason he turned to darkness was because he had been raised his whole life to believe that he was entitled to the dragon scroll, that he was MEANT to be the dragon warrior, and he felt personally betrayed by shifu (his mentor and father figure), because shifu did not try to defend his honor or worthiness (which, at this point in his life, he had based his entire identity upon). he acted out of anger and betrayal, and then got thrown into prison to stew in resentment for twenty years, and then FINALLY got out to learn that the status he had worked his whole life to attain was just being handed to someone else. tai lung acted out of resentment and he WAS a villain, but he wasn't inherently evil.

the entire message of the first movie was that you CAN be the dragon warrior with or without some mystical power from the scroll; that there IS no secret ingredient that makes you good or worthy, it is just you and what you choose to do. tai lung, at this current point, had just FINALLY confronted shifu (an extremely emotional scene), and the moment he finds that the scroll is blank and powerless, his entire worldview has been shattered. at THIS moment, of course he is unable to accept this or react rationally.

but now? four movies later, after having time to reflect in the spirit world (plus the sudden shock of whatever the chameleon has done to him), it might just be enough for him to choose differently. and choosing to be good on your own was the entire point of the first movie! (there were even specific points in the first movie that made it clear he WASN'T wholly bad, and could have stopped fighting - his face softens when shifu says that he's always been proud of him, before he gets angry about the scroll being blank, he just sounds afraid, etc.)

redemption wouldn't nullify his character; i even think that him becoming the next dragon warrior would be really fitting! in the first film, he turned to darkness because he had misunderstood and grown obsessive over the concept of being the dragon warrior and the power that would come with it. but the whole point of a redemption arc is choosing differently than what you did before, so him finally internalizing the message that there is no secret ingredient, it is just you - and finally understanding the message of the first movie that he failed to grasp the first time - would be a very fitting ending to his character.

“I can’t wait for Tai Lung’s redemption” y’all. Not every good character needs to be redeemed. Redeeming Tai Lung would make the point of his character in the first movie just… pointless. He’s cool as hell and you can like him but that doesn’t mean he should be or has to be redeemed. Why do people think he needs to be redeemed just because he is a sympathetic villain ???

[tossawary]

Okay, we finished "Kung Fu Panda 4" and I didn't like it. It was, at best, "okay" to me. It felt visually underwhelming, emotionally shallow, and the world it presented felt underwritten. There are bones of character arcs there that are... fine... but the actual execution felt hasty and unearned, with little sense of real danger or stakes, and they kept stomping on potential emotional depth by defaulting to jokes all the time instead of balancing that with quiet contemplation or real angst sometimes. It felt like a series of disconnected, television-quality, jokey romps.

Like, a lot of the fights in KFP1 were great because they were 1) visually stunning, 2) with real stakes and danger, and 3) serious emotional relevance. Tai Lung's escape sequence from his underground prison shows off how deadly and clever he is, building dread over the fact that he's coming for Shifu and Po. Tai Lung versus the Furious Five is Shifu's old student versus the new ones, on a precarious rope bridge, showing off how deadly and clever both sides are. (BOTH Tigress and Tai Lung are not happy Po has been chosen as the Dragon Warrior instead of them.) Tai Lung versus Shifu is rife with personal history and pain on both sides, as they tear into the Jade Palace during a thunderstorm. Tai Lung versus Po is more humorous, but it feels like relief after all that previous stress, and Po gets to show off everything he's learned physically and how he's grown emotionally.

In KFP4, the most visually interesting fight to me was when Po had fallen through the floor after the first Chameleon confirmation, so he was fighting the lizard guards in a dust cloud of inky silhouettes. It was visually different and could have presented a creative challenge with decreased visuals for Po, but it barely lasted a minute.

And none of the fights felt particularly emotionally compelling to me; a lot of them were very jokey and didn't have interesting stakes. The Chameleon is so painfully underdeveloped as a character and has no interesting emotional connection to Po. She DOES have an emotional connection to Zhen the fox, who I also felt was not well-developed, but that relationship also felt underdeveloped and without compelling emotional stakes to me, so their final confrontation didn't feel particularly satisfying. It didn't dig into the pain the same way confrontations with villains like Tai Lung and Lord Shen did.

It didn't feel like Po grew as a person at all. He didn't want to choose a replacement and then he changed his mind, but... I felt like we didn't dig into his resistance. I liked how emotionally vulnerable and also emotionally enduring Po has been in previous films, and I don't feel like we really got to see him open up and connect to Zhen properly.

Also, Po and Zhen felt like they were the same age, so... why is she a good replacement? Po didn't feel like the teacher between them. If there's a theme of "having achieved your goals, it is time to cultivate the next generation", I don't think the movie did it well. I think it would have been improved by the small change of making Zhen a child, obvious in both appearance and personality, very skilled in her own way but prone to making bad decisions and stuck in a bad situation. More vulnerable. More in need of guidance and support via Po's hard-won experiences. (Awkwafina does not make me think "child" or "youth"; her voice makes me think: "That is a grown ass woman.")

I think the movie would have been much more interesting if it had been about Po taking on his own students and struggling to be a teacher, with the different approaches needed for different children. (Movie Trailer Voice: "The Dragon Warrior takes on his greatest challenge yet..." Switch to Po's shocked face as he says: "Teaching?!") Frankly, it's a little weird that the Jade Palace doesn't have any younger disciples at this point anyway. I have vague memories of Po teaching the other pandas to fight in KFP3, but they were motivated by protecting themselves from an active threat, so it would be different.

Like, the first KFP movie came out in 2008. It has been a WHILE. Po is getting older. He's completed the arc of becoming the Dragon Warrior and Master of the Valley of Peace in the initial trilogy, sooooo... he SHOULD be looking forward.

We could open the movie with Po in some fight or another. It's cool. It's badass. Po is having a good time. Po saves the day and the local villagers, defeats the bad guy, and then at the very end... he gets a crick in his back from a relatively innocuous movement. Ow. He signs autographs for the crowd while holding himself at an awkward angle and trying to hide his injury.

Po then goes to the restaurant opening as he does in the movie. He helps open it while trying to hide the crick in his back. Both of his dads are there and concerned for him. One of them could whip out some funky "traditional" remedy for comedy purposes and Po is like, "Ugh, Dad, not again!" (This is a problem Po has dealt with before.)

Both of Po's dads should be visually older. Panda dad could have a cane now. Goose dad is still running around for his restaurant, but he's slower than he used to be and his eyes aren't so good anymore.

Goose dad has perhaps even hired a couple new cooks and servers for his newly renovated, larger restaurant. Things are changing. He needs the help. Po is too busy with martial arts. Goose dad is obviously struggling trying to teach and manage his new employees; one of the young cooks doesn't get Goose dad's explanations and Goose dad is frequently telling one of the young servers to stop playing with [object that is not a phone but is definitely standing in for a phone to the modern audience].

Po isn't surprised by this (he's obviously discussed it with his dad beforehand), but it's obvious that he feels both fondly for his Goose dad and a little sad that he's kind of been replaced. His face has a conflicted smile. He can even confide in Panda dad about this.

Or, perhaps Master Shifu is here! Master Shifu has come to the restaurant opening because he is friendly-ish with both of Po's fathers and enjoys the food. Perhaps it is implied that Shifu has come here with Po before. Shifu is by this point very used to Po's antics as the Dragon Warrior, and while he disapproves of the autographs for adoring fans on principle, he thinks such arrogance and fawning is dangerous, he by now trusts that Po's heart is in the right place and knows that Po will always put the Valley of Peace first.

Po is jump-scared by Master Shifu sitting beside him casually eating noodles. Shifu is relaxing a LITTLE into semi-retirement and also enjoys scaring Po like that. "I was here when you sat down," Shifu says calmly, and it is clear he's messing with Po. (Shifu is also visually a little older.)

Lines are exchanged which indicate their affection for each other (they've come so far!) and some of Shifu's opinions listed above. Shifu calls Po out for badly hiding an injury. Po whines about how this didn't used to happen so often. Shifu says some wise proverb about aging that Po doesn't process immediately, then Shifu translates bluntly, "You're getting older, Po, it happens."

Po whines a little bit. He gets dramatic and has some miniature crisis because he still feels young and childish at heart. There's a joke sequence where we zoom into Po's mind, perhaps with a different style of animation, as Po imagines fighting battles against bandits as an elderly panda with a long beard and a walker. Perhaps it could even be a diverging reimagining of his opening dream sequence from KFP1. He's still kicking ass somehow, there's just a bunch of jokes about the annoying parts of getting older. (The elderly Furious Five didn't show up because they fell asleep in the middle of the day or something.)

Po is snapped out of his daydream by something. Maybe one of the new servers dropped a stack of bowls, there's a loud CRASH. Shifu could be just sitting there calmly, eating, patiently waiting for Po to get back from his dramatic crisis daydream. Shifu is used to that by now.

Po is like, "Master Shifu, you're super old, right?" Shifu, unimpressed, says nothing. Po begs him for the secrets of kicking ass while being old and fragile. Shifu has some blunt, old-school badass response about pushing through the pain. And maybe Po is like, "Yeah, that's what a real warrior would do!" And then he reached for his chopsticks and somehow pulls at the crick again. Ow.

Shifu softens and says that Po has been the Dragon Warrior and a Master for some time now, he has learned a great many things, done a great many impressive deeds, and it is time that Po take the next step towards true mastery. He must take students.

Po reacts with incredulous surprise.

Cut forward. On the way back to the Jade Palace, Po is complaining to Shifu about how he still feels like a student most of the time. Shifu counters that Po taught the other pandas how to protect themselves. Po says that that was a special case.

And maybe Po is a little nervous about change, but the thing is...? I feel like Po would be REALLY excited to have his own students once he settled into the idea a little. Po is a kung fu nerd. Po should know a lot about famous master-student pairs. Po is also maybe a little lonely with the Furious Five gone. (Allegedly, the studio was not keen about the cost of hiring Angelina Jolie back for even a few lines as Tigress.) Po loves learning about kung fu and sharing his love for kung fu!!! I would love to see a character honestly THRILLED for this next stage in their life.

Po should be EXCITED to train his own "Furious Five"! He loves them! He loves that stuff! He wants his own team!

Po and Shifu get back to the Jade Palace and it turns out that Shifu (being the all-knowing control freak that he is) has apparently already selected three new children to be Po's first students. Shifu has chilled a bit but still loves planning his students' lives for them.

(The other benefit to this is that we don't have to waste valuable screen time finding these students. We can learn about the backstories as the movie goes on, but we can for now go straight into Po bonding with these new characters and struggling with meeting their individual needs.)

(I know that Universal allegedly set a strict limit on the length of the movie, because they felt like kids wouldn't be able to pay attention to a long one, and also shorter movies allow for more screenings in a day and also more money.)

Po is excited to share kung fu with these new disciples, but he gets tripped up by the fact that each of these three kids has their own personality quirks and learning styles. They have their own skills. They have their own flaws and vulnerabilities. (One of them could even be connected to the main villain of this movie somehow. A "traitor" stuck in a bad situation.) They don't always get along with each other; they're each vying for Po's attention. (Maybe one of them actually wanted to be taught by Tigress and is grumpy about getting Po.)

Po tries to cook a great meal for them to share together and he can't even get that right on the first try; the kids all have conflicting likes and dislikes. One of them doesn't like dumplings at all! The horror!

Po: "What's wrong, buddy? You're not eating your food..."

10-year-old Student (whose family was killed by the movie's villain): "The only thing that I'm hungry for... is VENGEANCE."

*lightning flashes in the background outside the window and everything*

Po: "...Okay, I love the energy, but that's not on the menu right now. We have tofu."

Student: "...I don't like tofu."

Teaching presents the opportunity for Po to mishandle various situations. He might accidentally upset all three of the kids in different ways. He might feel a little resentful that Shifu shoved him into this without warning and is barely helping. He starts to get stressed when a new mysterious villain shows up in the Valley of Peace and he has to handle that AND three struggling children at the same time. Maybe he gets a little snappish when the kids don't listen to him in a dangerous situation.

And I think Po would feel especially badly about this because of how he has been occasionally failed by each of his father figures. His goose dad discouraged him from following his dreams and has been jealous regarding Po's birth family. Shifu was an ASSHOLE to Po at first. His panda dad was tragically absent and their relationship is sometimes a little awkward. Po thought that his bad experiences would have made him automatically good at this, because he knew how to be better, but it feels like he's doing even worse.

Po and Shifu could have a great heart-to-heart over this, where Shifu ends up (indirectly perhaps) apologizing for springing this on Po, but insists that Po is already doing better than him and that he did it because he knew Po would be a great teacher. Shifu could also pledge to help a little more, Po need only ask. He doesn't have to do it alone.

(I thought that Po's dads in KFP4 didn't have a good storyline. They were overly comedic in a film that already had enough comedy on Po's side of things, and I didn't think that the attempts at emotion near the end landed. They didn't have a compelling role in the film. And Shifu was basically absent from the movie. It's possible to just hire different actors if the originals are too expensive, isn't it?)

Vulnerable students would bring serious stakes back into the fights. Po in KFP4 was essentially unbeatable, with little to fear in almost any situation he entered, because he can handle himself even against dozens of enemies by this point. But his students cannot do that! He would have to protect them! And if there's two or three of them, then he can't easily protect all of them at once. One of them could get injured in some fight to up the stakes for Po.

I don't have anything more concrete from here, because that would involve creating proper student OCs for Po and working out how their arcs would mesh with the Chameleon or another villain. I like the idea of one student secretly working with the Chameleon as per the actual movie. Perhaps another student could have actually lost their family or their home because of the Chameleon, which later puts this student in greater emotional conflict with the "traitor" student.

It's just... if the idea was to challenge Po and have him grow as a person, I don't think they achieved that effectively. He felt a little flat to me. Overly naive and condescending. I was not compelled by his relationship with Zhen, which felt a little shallow, without good chemistry, and like it was happening more between equals than someone Po could really teach. A trio of new students or something like that would have breathed even greater new life back into the franchise.

Hmmm... anything else to say... The people I was watching it with and I picked a bunch of nitpicky holes into the plotting and world building. Nothing super duper egregious. Just a lot of things that didn't add up well or could have been tweaked. (Why were the names "Steve" and "Scott" used in this movie??? It's a joke, but it's not a very funny joke, and it feels representative of a larger lack of attention to detail. It's a shallow joke at the expense of the cohesion of the world and now I'm distractedly confused as to when Western elements were established in this film franchise. Surely there was a Chinese pun to be made there that didn't have to appeal to anglophone audiences???)

I was not impressed by the "and then everyone clapped" ending where all the spirit villains told Po that he was cool. It felt like it was undermining previous storylines to have all of them find their inner peace and not try something. Like, uh, the 3rd movie starts with Kai having been imprisoned in the spirit realm for a long time and busting out because he's still a jerk, so even if Kai has magically chilled now, why are ALL of them in peaceful agreement? I would have thought Tai Lung and Shen and Kai would all fucking hate each other. This is taking off their nasty edges without having earned that development.

I feel like I just watched someone miss the obvious turn because they decided that going another direction would be "more fun" or "better" somehow, but it was not. Just take the obvious turn and give Po his own "Furious Three" kid students! (They're workshopping the name.)

[nehezt]

What do you think about the new movie?

it was fine! i think it had pacing issues and some storylines needed to be reorganized and trimmed but it was better than kung fu panda 3 #2me. po's arc was more solid i think. and zhen is fine as a character. nothing super exciting, pretty standard stuff, but acceptable!

as for tai lung's role i was specting it to be small and i'm satisfied enough with what we got lol happy that my characterization of him was actually pretty on the mark?

what i'm saying is that dreamworks should hire me

[shadowjinx626]

I am very curious about how they're going to do Shen's character in the fourth movie.

While Kai and Tai Lung are most likely to feel some form of anger towards Po (since he did directly killed them) and Tai Lung might be redeemed, Shen let himself be crushed to death.

He closed his eyes and spread his wings while the cannon was going to crush him. This behavior can be interpret as him accepting his fate / welcoming death.

Not to mention the fireworks display of a white peacock and the Soothsayer smiling.

Giving off the impression that Shen found peace. Or generally something positive.

Shen seems to be content with his death, which makes sense for his arc since he was always trying to runaway from his fate.

I don't want to set some form of expectations for the forth film, but a part of me fears how they're going to write the villains in the movie. Especially Shen.

[badpanduhmemes]

They also shortened the train too. And It's been a hot minute since I've seen a real peacock, but they are absolutely dwarfed by their train feathers, which would make the second one more realistic.

They should have left Shen and Kai out of the movie.

Okay, so the new design choices for Shen are bothering me. Like, I know it's Her impersonating him, but I don't like how fluffy they made him. It's messy to look at, and part of his character is metal.

Like, he was supposed to look cold and sleek, like metal. Because it makes him look more lethal, and sharp. (Like a stabby weapon.) But metal is also kind of his element.

I don't know, but to me the changes make him look less regal and imposing, and more... frumpy?

[alleycatchitchat]

Thoughts on the KFP4 Trailer

Okay so this seems to be getting a lot of hate?? And that's fair, because I think expectations for this movie were high, and people are desperate for dreamworks to not mess up one of their biggest franchises. But after seeing the trailer I'm actually pretty excited for this movie! Let's talk:

FIRST, THE CONS:

Where. Are. The Five. Where are the furious five. It looks like they're cutting out old, beloved characters in favor of introducing new characters, because exciting! And I'm really really worried about that.

On a similar note, I know Po is supposed to be training Zhen to be the new dragon warrior, and this REALLY rubs me the wrong way. I have nothing against her character so far, actually, but I'm furious that a completely new character is taking over the most important role in this franchise YEARS after the last movie came out. If anything, Tigress should be the new Dragon Warrior; watching her finally accept herself as she is, achieve Inner Peace, etc, would be FAR more satisfying. And it's just logical: as the deuteragonist of the series and leader of the furious five, I assumed she would be the second choice for Dragon warrior anyway.

NEXT, THE PROS:

Tai Lung's back. He's back. HE'S BAAAAAAACK

I NEVER thought this day would come. Reading the synopsis, I assumed the Chameleon's shapeshifting would be the full extent of seeing Tai Lung on screen. That his appearance would be used but he wouldn't actually be there. Having him SHOW UP, ON SCREEN, has honestly completely redeemed the entire movie for me at this point.

I want to see his redemption arc. I want to see him interact with Shifu. I want to see him team up with Po to take down the Chameleon. Even if he has a TINY role in the movie, I don't care, this is more than I ever hoped for. I will settle for ANYTHING I absolutely don't care.

yeah i had a bunch of other things i wanted to say, but tai lung brainrot has taken over. sorry guys. scream at me in the notes or whatever if you're just as excited as i am

[bietrofastimoff23]

i'm leaning towards the fact that tai lung is only here for a nostalgic cameo, but I hope for more. if he became a dragon warrior at the end of the redemptive arc, it would be the embodiment of his fans' wildest dreams. although he didn't have much peace in the world of souls either, but perhaps there was still enough time there to accept some things. and perhaps, without the kung fu skills that will be taken away from him, he will prove himself a more worthy candidate for the dragon warrior than he was before (but I'm 98% sure that the next dragon warrior will be a new character).

if he is given a full-fledged arch and in the end he is destined to return back to the world of souls, the reconciliation of shifu and tai lung will be enough for me. i would like to see them fighting together shoulder to shoulder, how they protect each other and how the love of father and son is visible in their eyes during the farewell.

T: what I ever did, i did to make you proud! S: i loved you too much to see what you were becoming. what i... was turning you into. 

[icarianarts]

Kung Fu Panda 4 makes me so sad because it had SUCH potential for becoming an interesting movie but it is just. A mess, all the other previous movies had enough of a fun idea to work with (even if the beginnings of 2 and 3 had Po relearning things he had figured out in the last installation to the series) that made them enjoyable.

The Chameleon as a villain just…has such a lackluster reasoning for WHY she is so evil, being turned away from being taught kung fu because she was “too small” is ridiculous when we have characters like Mantis who are much smaller than her and have gone on to learn and become a master in his own right. Hearing how the plans for the movie originally were going to give Tai Lung a redemption arc and give him and Po a friendship/rivalry similar to that of like Goku and Vegeta makes me grip my head in agony over what it could have been…

My rough ideas for improving it:

- Remove Zhen as a character for now. Po has only been the Dragon Warrior for a handful of years and there is no reason for him to be suddenly pressured into giving up the title onto someone else. If anything, we could have Shifu simply asking him if he should expect there to be students trained under Po soon. Like a light-hearted jest similar to a parent going so when am I getting grandkids? Stuff like that. LOL

-The Chameleon could have a backstory similar to Tai Lung. Maybe she was turned away from being taught anything because the way she viewed kung fu and what her personal desires were fundamentally flawed/a great evil sensed within her/etc, this could give a reason for her fixation on Tai Lung as a person, make her think they are alike (which would be revealed by the movie that they are not), have an excuse to explore her sorcery better and like. I don’t know, maybe he refuses to help teach her and in reaction to that she takes his abilities away from him. With what makes him “threatening” stripped away, she could just turn him out into the world and basically discard of Tai Lung from there. This could force him to realize he needs help from Po and the others and the movie could start off much more interestingly…

I always get sad over how the movies don’t fully develop the Furious Five beyond Tigress, I think there is a lot of untapped potential for more world building and character development that can easily get dashed. Sigh! Leaves much to think about and consider.

[nov4-rocket5]

KFP4's looking like it's setting up to be an apology for KFP3 of sorts the way Shrek Forever After was for Shrek the Third. The Chameleon doesn't look much different at all from Kai in terms of goal and the premise of idea of 'stealing forms and chi from other Kung-Fu masters.' Though what little we've seen of Chameleon looks a lot more interesting than Kai's moveset.

But what made Kai the least engaging of the KFP Villains was that his motivation was there and the set up was legitimately solid (by just taking from other Kung-Fu masters his whole life, he had no legacy of his own), but the movie never really explored it at all compared to Tai-Lung or Shen, so Kai just ends up falling flat.

Disappointing still is that he almost was a more compelling villain. Just look at some of this concept art.

There's so much more character here, and a lot more to explore of his relationship with Oogway and why he was so afraid of being forgotten. Hell, he was originally going to be voiced by Mads Mikkelsen.

Until the script got reworked after audiences complained KFP2 being 'too dark', making Kai much goofier with any potential arc getting tossed out the window, and chi ending up being a cheap mcguffin and the only motivation he has for a majority of the movie.

[dracocheesecake]

Am I the only one who finds it satisfying when Tai Lung gets his tushie handed to him? Like he's actually getting force-fed a big ol' slice of that humble pie and maybe one day he'll finally taste it, swallow it, and digest the lesson he's meant to learn?

I actually do love this guy too BTW I'd say the same thing about Kai (foreshadowing for Jaded Destiny lol X'D)- I just think that sometimes getting your buns beat can be a great pathway towards a redemption arc (if the character actually stops being stupid and realizes that).

[mseirtaku]

Me watching travesty that was Kung Fu Panda 4.

Under 'read more', I have my full (unsolicited) thoughts on the fourth film - warning, I don't have much good to say about it 〔´∇｀〕;;

SPOILERS! + LONG ASS POST!

So... I'll start with the positives, because honestly, I do love aspects of this movie.

Any scenes featuring Li and Mr. Ping are the absolute highlights of this film. Love them, ship them, hilarious chemistry between them. I'd watch a whole film dedicated to just them.

Though not as funny as the previous films, it’s genuinely funny, like, some jokes are deadass hilarious. (See above for example lol)

Genuinely, the main villainess, the chameleon, has such a cool design and Viola Davis provides such a good voice for her. The animation whenever she transforms is so cool.

Jack Black as Po is just so charming, you can't help but find Po so likeable.

For what little we saw of Tai Lung, he was a treat to see.

Great animation, lovely scenery, love the little animation flairs during the action scenes

Alright, now time for the negatives... Which unfortunately there is a lot of. I’ll go step by step and build up to the bigger picture I’m trying to visualise here.

The Kung Fu Panda

Po’s character arc was pretty much complete at the end of KFP3, when he has his epiphany and finds that his true self lies in not restricting himself to one label, but by embracing everything that makes him Po. His identity by this point is very well realised. Unfortunately in KFP4, the tacked on conflict of him needing to retire the Dragon Warrior title and choose a successor just… Doesn’t make sense for his character at this point. Not to mention, the movie repeats a joke ad nauseam where no one knows who Po is, or of his adventures, jokingly chalking it down to a ‘regional’ tale. You’d think the literal saviour of China would be well known. The world-building feels so much smaller for it. Unfortunately, this movie is very determined to undermine the impact of the last three movies, all to prop up the wisecracking and super cool shitass Awkafina character. Sorry, not sorry, but Zhen is a terrible character just for that reason alone. If Kung Fu Panda wanted to pass the torch down, Tigress or even Tai Lung would have been a much more compelling option, seeing as both were telegraphed to be potential Dragon Warriors in the past. Speaking of…

Tai Lung

Man… The trailers got my hopes up that KFP4 would feature a long awaited redemption arc for the OG villain of the KFP films. Instead, he’s delegated to a cage for half his scenes, and received the barest minimum of character arcs in the finale. Granted, he was still entertaining to watch, but he was totally under-utilised.

To continue the topic of identity, the film missed the chance to ask this: “Who is Tai Lung without his kung fu?” All his life he’d been raised with huge aspirations to become the best kung fu master, and to eventually gain the dragon scroll (which he was denied.) In KFP4, the chameleon summons him from the spirit realm, and drains him of all his kung fu skill. Therein lies the missed opportunity for a compelling character arc, now that he’s been cast out as a supposedly useless body into the real world. And who better to help him figure out his identity other than Po himself?

I could go on forever about the various fanficy rewrites and plot ideas, but I don’t want to let this get any longer. So I’ll talk about one more topic.

The Chameleon

I love her design, I love her voice acting, but compared to Tai Lung, Lord Shen and even General Kai… She’s simply a weak villain. (Too small to learn kung fu… Really?? With characters like Mantis and Viper who deadass exist in the same franchise???)

‘I’m the Chameleon! I do nothing but change!’ holds such potential for a far more interesting backstory. Instead of being rejected for her size, suppose that it was seen by many king fu masters that she simply didn’t possess a true spirit of a kung fu warrior. As explained in this film, their abilities are harnessed in the spirit/soul, not just the physical body. Perhaps she didn’t want to work for those abilities properly. She wanted the easy way forwards. She didn’t want to put in the proper time and effort to become a master of the craft. Spurred on by what she sees as rejection, she learns sorcery to take on any number of identities of kung fu masters. So many identities she could use to fool herself into believing she was someone talented and gifted in the art of kung fu. But it’s only a lie she tells herself. And so, she takes the drastic action, and decides to start summoning these masters from the spirit realm. But even as she slowly grows in power through the course of this film, maybe a strong sense of imposter syndrome starts to set in. These powers aren’t truly hers - what value does a carbon copy of something original have? Nothing. She never properly worked for them and made them her own.

Anyways. I’m almost done writing.

Quick fire round of criticism;

Akwafina’s shitass character

Furious five just tossed aside except for a non speaking cameo. Tigress got done so dirty - if there are gonna be like three more films, they should have been about her

WHAT DID THEY DO TO LORD SHEN’S CHARACTER MODEL

The goofy-ass way he was attacked and then thrown into the cage, the disrespect lol

Li (the victim) and Lord Shen (the genocidal maniac who destroyed his village and killed his wife) somehow existed in the same space and did not get into a conflict.

Why does Kai still exist in the spirit realm? I thought he was literally skadooshed to be extra double dead lol. Like spirit literally eradicated

Akwafina’s shitass character

The villains bowing to Po feels super unearned given how under-utilised they were. I can see it working, just not in the plot we got in the end

Po’s character feels weirdly dumbed down, it’s hard to put my finger on it

Fart joke :(

The innocent and cute but secretly psycho baby bunnies are the definition of anti humour. They’re so fucking obnoxious and cringey

For some reason, the character designs of new characters feels super incongruous and out of place.

The Dragon Warrior isn’t an inherited title, it was given during a time where China needed a hero. Why does it need to be passed down?

Ȁ̸̺͚̮̘̔̌̇̋͛̀́́̒̉̅̐ķ̶̲͍̘̖͈̭̮̝̩͐̃̎̕w̴̙̖̫̿̿͜a̸̧̠͎̰̲̠̮͇̰̼̱͂̋̃̇̑̍̊̂̎̾̓͝f̶̛̼͓̱͖̖̭͓͍͚͋͛̍ḯ̶͕̈́͛̀̎̆͛n̶͖͓̻̉̆̎́͆̌͌͂̾̉̚a̷̡̻̟̟͍̳̙̰͔̬̜̐̏̾̍̊̎́͂͊͝’̷̢̢̭̬̹̪̟̰̣́̈́̌̈̑̄̔͗̓̃̄̐s̶̡̹̙̖̲̝͎̳͔̍͑́ ̷̢̤̈͊͛̚s̸͓̪̠̼̪̤͈̜̎ȟ̵͇̥͈̟͖͈̣̞͚̘̩͍̓̅̀͐͗͛̏̉̀̒͘͜i̸̛̦͕̖̙̲͔̗̙̘̥̣̰̖͖̭̓̄͂̋́̍̓̃͘t̴̯̯̔̑̈̽̇̋̈́͌͛á̴̡͍͓͎͍͈̖͖͎̼̀́̅̿͌̂̌̆͠s̷̢̳̙̦̯̥̮͕͍̃̃͑̂̎̑̍̀͒̊͘̚͝͠͠s̴̪͖̼͈͂̏̚ͅ ̶͕̺̟̙̲͓̘̟̠͇̩̖̠̦̫̄̅̋̓̈́̓̆͋͝͝c̴͕̤̮̎̿̎͐̀̐̊̆̓̍̾̈́͠h̵̛̝̑̋̎̃̈́̆͋͒̅͊́͑͠͝a̷̡̹͍̳̘̪̰̰̤̼̎̄̈́̚ͅŗ̷̝̲͚̻͚̮͕̳̙̭̻̄͆̇̐̄̐͂͘a̴̡̢̯̩͓͓͂̄͑͗́́͂͠͠c̸̨̺̖̪̙͖̯̟̠͙͐́͊̾̅̎̏͠͝t̸̛̗̣̳̠̯͎̫͔̣̱̞̂̅͑̀̈̄͋̈́̆͘͝e̸̢͎͙̻̩̦̹̜̩̦̖̫͍͂́̌ͅr̵̨̄̅͐̍̏̅̀̃́̇̇̅̕͝

That’s all I have really. Sorry for straying so much into fanfiction territory, but it’s an integral part of my criticisms. I could honestly write forever, but I mainly wanted to share this silly redraw of the Tai Lung meme using Lobster and I’s silly Kung Fu Panda Hetalia gijinka crossover AU nonsense lol

If you read this all the way to the end, congrats! And sorry - I never do long text posts like this lol

[beasts-of-jadewood]

So many Kung Fu Panda 4 rewrites just make Zhen and the Chameleon the same person but honestly, I'd much rather explore the sort of borderline abusive tiger mom relationship that the Chameleon has with Zhen because I think there's more potential in that compared to a more standard villain redemption arc. Kung Fu Panda has never done anything related to generational trauma before unless you count Oogway accidentally fucking up Tai Lung's life so I think there's a lot we can get into there. Not to mention, having flawed parents who are bad at parenting is a deeply relatable experience for a lot of kids and adults alike. I'll probably either post my own rewrite sometime later or just convey it via implications in my fanfic but I seriously think Zhen has more value as her own character and as the Chameleon's closest victim.

[lovelytayforce]

@playful-level4366 Hey sorry I didn't reply like normal but I knew this wouldn't fit down there, considering how long I thought about this question and how to word it. It's kind of a weird dynamic to explain because it's not just about Tai Lung because he's intrically linked to Shifu and Tigress as an abuser, and in a sense I don't think the fandom wants to go over that with him at all. They believe him to be a victim and nothing else. It's true he's a victim, trust me I agree with a lot of Tai fans on that aspect (Hell, I relate to his need to prove himself and also hating who he is, hoping some magical spell will change all our imperfections but I know it won't...) but also he's a terrible abuser to his own Father and Tigress. And that ruins a lot of their fluffy hcs of a soft family learning to come together because that's too realistic for the fandom perspective and view on him. God, I don't wanna be mean but it always seems like when I see discussions on the character its as if we see two very different sides of a burnt piece of toast and see two different types of images, one skewed more by the lighting than anything. Listen, this isn't me telling other Tai fans they can't have their soft hcs for him go ahead but remember you need to stop blaming other characters for who he is, he choose his path. A person even said I was "too harsh" on Tai Lung after explaining all the horrible things HE DECIDED TO DO, that's not harsh. That's the truth and no one wants to go over it because its uncomfortable and I get it to a point but you all also picked the most uncomfortable characters who mirror our very dreary reality when we close our laptops and see the imperfections of our loved ones and ourselves. Tai Lung is a personification of the favored son in many Kung Fu flicks of the past and even the present, how the Father uplifts them to the light of heaven themselves before they ultimately go too far and let them down whilst ignoring the daughter. aka Sexism in the fam. Neat. You latched onto the man that was not only neglected by his own father but the man who abused his father back, both physically and emotionally TWICE to gain what he wanted because he knew Shifu would never hurt him.

Like I had a whole Tai stan block me for daring to remember this scene of a father with a broken hip crawling to his son and mourning what he allowed him to become. Shifu could have died but he still loved that boy despite everything he did to him and what he would continue to do to him. Like if we wanted real redemption arcs of Tai Lung we would go over how he haunted Shifu's consciousness and led him to close himself off to his next child, Tigress, whom is always left out of the conversation cause no one wants to talk about the woman neglected and abused by her father and older brother. A popular fic even admitted to not even wanting to touch Shifu and Tigress' dynamic, do you see the problem here???? I know many of you may not know or even care but I write fanfic for this fandom focusing on that aspect of Tigress' character along with Shifu, its not always fun and I've probably stumbled and made mistakes but its a story worth telling. Because in the end, Tigress is still alive and so is Shifu! Tai Lung isn't he had his chance and ruined it. Most Tai redemption fics are easily consumable because they don't want to go over the unsavory aspects of Tai Lung's character; The fraud, the continued abuse of his own father because everything he does is to hurt Shifu personally so he can get what he wanted in the end. Po was just another piece to hurt him (Shifu) as stated on the bridge. No, in the end, they want to go over how Shifu hurt him as a child and try to lure Tigress to his side, despite the fact he belittled her when they first met. But you know, how else are we supposed to get hehe bickering siblings. Cause that's easier to consume than realizing she'd want nothing to do with him after hurting her friends and her father. There's just an overall lack of autonomy given to the characters that the movies relish in. The fandom is too scared to allow them to be themselves because pointing the finger at Oogway who allows people to grow at their own pace is easier than realizing; Tai lung and Shifu never listened to him. Like think of a person this week who did exactly what you told em to do? and did they do it? Probably not, people are fucking stubborn. Me, included. People love learning the hard way, that's just the truth! Even toddlers take a min to listen to one task! So, I wouldn't even call it whitewashing, it's this desire to ignore canon to support their own hcs because if they told his actual story all of their concepts would fall apart to the wayside to see, the only true victim in the end, was a woman. Tigress. No one wants to go over that, that's a lot of work, that's a touchy subject but it's why I love these characters, there so raw and horrible which makes their stories compelling enough to stand beside the likes of Seven Samurai. It's that good!! So, to end this all, no they don't. Even Traces of Spring which I still follow because I love the art falls into this safe way of going about telling his story and sidelining the character who mirrors who he could have been, Tigress. Because she's not that cool to them despite the fact she controls herself better than he does. And had the opportunity to be a hero as great as she was if he set aside his selfish, obsession, and toxic views. But you know he's hot to some people, so he's a good boy deep down.

Yup. Uh huh.