#Superman/Batman (2003 2011)

[argoscity]

ULTIMATE SUPERGIRL READING GUIDE

since i've been asked a few times in the past for various reading guides for kara, i thought i'd compile them all into one post for the sake of convenience!

this guide has reading orders for supergirl comics in PRE-CRISIS (1959-1985), POST-CRISIS (2004-2011), NEW 52 (2011-2016), REBIRTH (2016-2021), and INFINITE FRONTIER (2021-present).

if you have any questions at all don't be afraid to shoot me an ask!

for each section bolded comics are required, italicized comics are recommended, and everything else is optional!

[PRE-CRISIS]

ORIGIN AND MIDVALE ERA (NOTE: you'll have to flip to the back of each issue to get to kara's section!) action comics (1938) #252, 258, 267, 276, 278-282, 285, 295, 309-310, 313, 317

STANHOPE COLLEGE action comics (1938) #318, 366-368, 372, 374 world’s finest (1941) #169 adventure comics (1938) #381, 386, 391, 395, 397

K-SFTV REPORTER — SAN FRANCISCO adventure comics (1938) #406-407, 410-415, 419-424

VANDYRE UNIVERSITY supergirl (1974) #1-10

STUDENT ADVISOR — FLORIDA (NOTE: every member of the superfamily has a story in the superman family (1974), so you'll have to flip through to find kara's section!) the superman family (1974) #165, 168, 171, 174, 177, 180, 182 justice league of america (1960) #132-134 the superman family #183, 184-186, 187-189, 191-193, 194, 196-198, 199, 200, 201-202, 203, 204-205, 206-207

ACTRESS — NEW YORK the superman family (1974) 208-210, 211-214, 215-216, 217, 218 superman (1939) #373 (second story titled “an eye (and ear) on the world!”) detective comics (1937) #508-510 the superman family #219-222

THE GREAT DARKNESS SAGA (i recommend this storyline in it's entirety, but kara only appears in the last issue!) legion of superheroes (1980) #290-294

LAKE SHORE UNIVERSITY supergirl (1982) #1-12 (cw: nazi imagery in the brief interlude in #12)  supergirl (1982) #13-15 (cw: antisemitism, nazi imagery, depictions of the holocaust.) supergirl (1982) #16-23

LAST APPEARANCES AND DEATH legion of super-heroes (1980) #300-303 dc comics presents (1978) #28 tales of the legion of super-heroes (1984) #314-315 crisis on infinite earths (1985) #4-7

BONUS POST-COIE APPEARANCES christmas with the super-heroes (1988) #2 (last story titled “should auld acquaintance be forgot”) supergirl (1996) #49, 75-80 solo (2004) #1 (third story titled “young love”) convergence: adventures of superman (2015) #1-2

[POST-CRISIS]

ORIGIN superman/batman (2003) #8-13  (or you can watch superman/batman: apocalypse (2010) instead which I recommend! the art is a lot more tasteful and it's a very faithful adaptation of the comic so you won’t be missing out on anything.)

KARA WITH THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES supergirl and the legion of super-heroes (2006) #16-36

LOEB AND KELLY HELL ERA supergirl (2005) #1-5, 9-10, 19 (you don’t have to read any of this since it gets retconned anyway, but if you’re interested in kara’s early characterization, the beginnings of her friendship with cassie sandsmark, or her difficulty fitting in on earth then you’re welcome to read what i’ve provided.)

KELLEY PUCKETT ERA Amazons Attack! teen titans (2003) #47-48  amazons attack! (2007) #3  supergirl (2005) #20  amazons attack! (2007) #4  teen titans (2003) #49

supergirl (2005) #21-22  teen titans (2003) #50, 51-55  supergirl (2005) #25-33

Superman: Brainiac  action comics (1938) #866-870

GATES AND IGLE HEAVEN ERA supergirl (2005) #34

New Krypton (new krypton is one of my favorite events and i recommend it in its entirety, but for the sake of brevity I’ll only be listing the issues relevant to kara.) superman: new krypton special #1  superman (1939) #681  adventure comics special featuring guardian #1  action comics (1938) #871  supergirl (2005) #35  superman (1939) #682  action comics (1938) #872  supergirl (2005) #36  superman (1939) #683  action comics (1938) #873

teen titans (2003) #66  supergirl (2005) #37-42

Friends and Fugitives superman: secret Files 2009 #1  supergirl (2005) #43  action comics (1938) #881  supergirl (2005) #45  action comics (1938) #882  supergirl (2005) #46-47

supergirl (2005) annual 1, #48-50

Last Stand of New Krypton  adventure comics (2009) #8  superman: last stand of new krypton #1  supergirl (2005) #51  superman (1938) #698  adventure comics (2009) #9  superman: last stand of new krypton #2  adventure comics (2009) #10  supergirl (2005) #52  superman (1938) #699  superman: last stand of new krypton #3 superman: war of the supermen (2010) #0, 1-4 

supergirl (2005) #53-57, annual 2, 58-59

END OF SUPERGIRL VOL 5 supergirl (2005) #60-64 supergirl (2005) #65-67

[THE NEW 52]

ORIGIN and SUPERGIRL VS THE WORLDKILLERS supergirl (2011) #1-7

SUPERGIRL and SILVER BANSHEE supergirl (2011) #8-11

SUPERGIRL and SUPERBOY superboy (2011) #6

SANCTUARY supergirl (2011) #12, 0, 13

H’EL ON EARTH superman (2011) #13 supergirl (2011) #14 superman (2011) #14 superboy (2011) #15 supergirl (2011) #15 superboy (2011) #16 superboy (2011) Annual #1 supergirl (2011) #16 superman (2011) #16 superboy (2011) #17 supergirl (2011) #17 superman (2011) #17

SUPERGIRL and POWERGIRL supergirl (2011) #18-20

CYBORG SUPERMAN supergirl (2011) #21-23 action comics (2011) #23.1 supergirl (2011) #24

KRYPTON RETURNS action comics (2011) annual #2 superboy (2011) #25 supergirl (2011) #25 superman (2011) #25

SUPERGIRL VS LOBO supergirl (2011) #26-27

RED DAUGHTER OF KRYPTON supergirl (2011) #28-29 red lanterns (2011) #28-29 supergirl (2011) #30 red lanterns (2011) #30 supergirl (2011) #31 red lanterns (2011) #31-32 supergirl (2011) #32-33

SUPERMAN: DOOMED (this is a whole storyline but I'll only be listing the issues that kara appears in!) superman/wonder woman (2013) #9 action comics (2011) #33 supergirl (2011) #34 superman: doomed (2014) #2 action comics (2011) #35 supergirl (2011) #35

FUTURES END supergirl: futures end (2014) #1

JUSTICE LEAGUE UNITED justice league united (2014) #1-5 justice league united (2014) annual #1 justice league united (2014) #6-10

CRUCIBLE supergirl (2011) #36-40

FINAL DAYS OF SUPERMAN (kara only appears in the issues i've italicized and bolded, but i put all the relevant issues if you wanted to read the full storyline!) superman (2011) #51 batman/superman (2013) #31 action comics (2011) #51 superman/wonder woman (2013) #28 batman/superman (2013) #32 action comics (2011) #52 superman/wonder woman (2013) #29 superman (2011) #52

[REBIRTH]

KARA IN NATIONAL CITY supergirl: rebirth #1

supergirl (2016) #1-8 batgirl (2016) annual 1 supergirl #9-12

supergirl (2016) annual 1 supergirl #13-20

world's finest: batwoman and supergirl #1-2

ROGOL ZAAR and THE SINS OF THE CIRCLE the man of steel #1-2, 3-6 supergirl #21-33, #34-36

LEVIATHAN and BATMAN WHO LAUGHS superman: leviathan rising special #1 supergirl #34-36 supergirl (2016) annual 2 supergirl #37-42

HOUSE OF KENT action comics (2016) #1022-1023 action comics (2016) #1024-1028

FUTURE STATE superman of metropolis (2021) #1-2 kara zor el, superwoman (2021) #1-2

[INFINITE FRONTIER]

action comics 2021 annual

WOMAN OF TOMORROW supergirl: woman of tomorrow (2021) #1-8

WORLD'S FINEST batman/superman: world's finest (2022) #2-6, 8, 12

A WORLD WITHOUT CLARK KENT and RED MOON (kara is featured in the back-up story! if you want the full context of this plot i recommend reading the full warworld arc in action comics [action comics #1030-1046, superman: warworld apocalypse #1]!) action comics (2016) #1044-1046, 1047-1049

DAWN OF DC action comics (2016) #1051-1053, 1055-1056 superman (2023) #1-3 power girl special #1 steelworks (2023) #1-3

KNIGHT TERRORS knight terrors: superman (2023) #1-2

DAWN OF DC (continued) action comics: doomsday special (2023) superman (2023) #7 hawkgirl (2023) #4 supergirl special (2023)

NEW WORLDS [this arc starts on action comics #1057—kara doesn't appear in that issue but I recommend reading it for context!] action comics (2016) #1058-1060 action comics 2023 annual

JOURNEY TO FERIMBIA powergirl (2023) #5, 6-7

HOUSE OF BRAINIAC action comics (2016) #1064 superman (2023) #13 action comics (2016) #1065 superman (2023) #14 action comics (2016) #1066 superman (2023) #15

UNIVERSE END action comics (2016) #1070-1075

UPCOMING: action comics (2016) #1076-1081 superwoman special #1 [out dec. 11]

[batbabydamian]

Hey, I started reading Robin son of Batman because of your recommendation (I literally have a print of your post on my phone to not forget lol). Honestly? One of the best things I ever read!!!

Thank you for opening my eyes! Damian has been one of my favorite characters for over a year, but I didn't read/watch much of him because of school, life (and probably an executive dysfunction in the mix).

Maya is incredible. I loved her.

I haven't finished all the issues yet, but do you have any other recommendations?

WAH this makes me so happy, i'm glad you still gave it a shot even with how busy life is!! ;v;

i’d love to give reccs, and i’ll try to go a beginner friendly route! tbh you can pick up whatever here, but since you've read R:SOB i’d immediately follow up with Batman and Robin (2011) #1-8! this first arc is what’s referred to in Maya’s introduction, and it's just. so good.

Main Books

Batman and Robin (2009)

Dick as Batman with Damian as his Robin!

#20-22 Tree of Blood: Dark Knight vs White Knight arc is done by Tomasi and Gleason, the team for the next Batman and Robin series

*Batman and Robin (2011)

Bruce and Damian figuring out their relationship as both Batman & Robin and father & son

imo you can enjoy the ride and read straight through this but i’ll add context to avoid as much confusion as possible since there’s the occasional tie-in or offscreen events, like Damian’s death nbd

Batman Incorporated (2012) #1-10

events leading to Damian's death - affects Batman and Robin (2011) from issue #18

kind of a tough read especially with how Talia's written, but a lot of iconic bits like Batcow, Damian's vegetarian declaration, Alfred the cat, "We Were the Best, Richard."

Robin (2021)

another self-discovery adventure, particularly after Alfred’s death and a fallout with Bruce (and questionable writing choices from his last Teen Titans run)

Batman and Robin (2023)

currently ongoing! after a number of events, Bruce and Damian are back as a duo

Damian Dynamics!

Batman: Streets of Gotham (2009) #7, 10-12

arc where Damian meets one of his first Gotham friends, Colin Wilkes

Batgirl (2009) #5-7, #17

Steph and Damian dynamic! "the bad cop, worse cop" dysfunctional duo

Red Robin (2009) #13-14

early Tim and Damian dynamic that of course includes fighting haha. funny enough, accidentally my first intro to Damian LOL

Teen Titans (2003) #89-92

Dick!Batman has Damian join the Teen Titans. Start of Damian and Rose Wilson dynamic that’s extended in Robin (2021)

Batman: Gates of Gotham (2011)

Damian meets Cass and has a brief team up

Gotham Academy (2015) #7

Damian meets Maps Mizoguchi! they have a few other meetings, but outside of that the series itself is a great read!

Robin War Event (2015)

Robin War (2015) #1, Grayson (2014) #15, Detective Comics (2011) #47, We Are Robin (2015) #7, Robin: Son of Batman (2015) #7, Robin War (2015) #2

Duke and Damian dynamic! not exactly beginner friendly but these are the main issues in order for the event! you can also read the TPB version for everything including Tie-Ins

Nightwing (2016) #16-20, #42, #43

#16-20 Nightwing and Robin arc!

#42 Dick on a mission to save Damian! the one appearance of "Wiggles" the dragon

#43 Dick, Roy, and Damian team-up

New Talent Showcase 2018 "Catwoman: Pedigree"

Selina, Damian, and Alfred the cat

Batman: Prelude to the Wedding - Robin vs. Ra's Al Ghul (2018)

Selina, Damian, and Cheese Viking - Damian's fav game shown in Nightwing: Rebirth (2016)

Monkey Prince (2022) #1-4

Marcus Sun Shugel-Shen's main comic, but Damian features as a fun dynamic here before they're in more serious circumstances in Batman VS Robin (2022)/Lazarus Planet event

Superman (2016) #10 - 11

the beginning of the Super Sons! featuring Maya!

Super Sons (2017)

solitary arcs but there’s a few event tie-in issues later

Adventures of the Super Sons (2018)

literally more Super Sons adventures lol galactic shenanigans yeehaw

Challenge of the Super Sons (2020) 

Super Sons time shenanigans feat. the Justice League

Robin 80th Anniversary (2020)

"Boy Wonders" - brief Damian feature as Tim considers his next step in life

"My Best Friend" - Jon's thoughts on Damian and their dynamic

"Bat and Mouse" - refers to Damian's unfortunate Teen Titans (2016) run at the time of release which follows up with Teen Titans Annual #2 where Damian briefly gives up Robin

Extra Comics!

Superman/Batman (2003) #77

Kara and Damian in a Halloween team-up! also the appearance of "Li'l Matches" lol

DCU Halloween Special '09 "Cavity Search"

Damian out on a solo mission for Halloween night. Immediately after is Tim's Red Robin story "Then and Now: Our Father's Sins" which is more somber in contrast but also a good read!

DCU Halloween Special 2010 "Robin the Vampire Slayer"

a Dick!Batman and Robin story featuring the vampire Andrew Bennett

Cursed Comics Cavalcade (2018) "The Devil You Know"

Halloween themed comic with a sweet short story of Damian alongside Solomon Grundy

DC's Terrors Through Time (2022)

"Trick or Treat" a Super Sons Halloween story

"The Haunting of Wayne Manor" Damian and Deadman story - in the end, Boston kinda refers to Nezha's possession of Damian in Batman VS Robin (2022) which was happening at the time of this release

Batman: Li'l Gotham (2013)

lighthearted series that instantly makes me smile with the silliness and Dustin Nguyen’s art i love this dearly

Secret Origins (2014) #4 "A Boy's Life"

a retelling of Damian's origin story

Detective Comics (2016) #1001-1005

Batman and Robin vs the Arkham Knight (unrelated to the game)

Truth & Justice (2021) #6/#16 - 18 Digital First version

cute story of Damian’s birthday! Juni Ba’s art is so fun!!

DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration (2021) “Special Delivery”

short story about Damian! and poisoned pizzas. completely forgot the artist Sami Basri drew Rebirth Damian here before catboy Damian lol Cass’s story “Sounds” is also cute! Marcus makes his first appearance in "The Monkey Prince Hates Superheroes"

DC VS Vampires (2021)

Damian makes appearances throughout this elseworlds book, but the one-shot DC VS Vampires: Hunters (2022) is vampire Damian-centric!

Batman: Black and White (2021) #5

“Father & Son Outing” short story written and drawn by Jorge Jimenez!

Batman: Urban Legends (2021) #20-23

#20 “My Son” Talia and Bruce focus

#20 - 23 “The Murder Club” 4 Parts

Tiny Titans (2008) #33, #39, #45, #47

a few appearances but SO CUTE, LOOK AT HIM

*Batman and Robin (2011) reading guide

i'm mostly trying to avoid the "what did i just walk in on?" kinda feeling when i first started reading comics LOL i'll list the comics where events take place, but you don't necessarily have to read them to go through this book since things are usually explained as quickly as possible in the first page or so

#0 Someday Never Comes

Talia and baby Damian before he grows up to meet Bruce

#1-8 Born to Kill

just an incredibly solid arc for Bruce and Damian!

#9 Court of Owls Tie-In Issue

Damian VS a Court of Owls Talon. While Bruce is occupied with a home invasion of Talons, Alfred makes a call for allies to protect targeted Gotham public figures from Talons. During Batman (2011) #1-11

#10-12 Terminus

Damian challenges the previous Robins sans Steph

Batman Incorporated (2012) is occurring at this time where Talia has placed a bounty on Damian and there's small mentions of that

#13-14 Eclipsed/Devoured

mostly solitary arc! end of it leads into the Death of the Family event

#15-16 Death of the Family Tie-In Issues

Damian and Joker face-off... Alfred's been kidnapped by the Joker, and Damian goes looking for him. During Batman (2011) #13-17

#17 Life is but a Dream - Death of the Family Epilogue

a sort of subconscious check-in through the dreams of Damian, Alfred, and Bruce. Nightwing (2011) #17 features Damian encouraging Dick after Death of the Family events

#18 Undone "Requiem"

Bruce dealing with Damian's death from Batman Incorporated #8

other reactions to Damian's death: Dick in Nightwing (2011) #18, Tim in Teen Titans (2011) #18

#19-23 Denial, Rage, The Bargain, Despair, Acceptance

Bruce through the stages of grief with some batfam appearances in each. also introduces Carrie Kelley into continuity as Damian's acting tutor.

Batman (2011) #19-20 also addresses Bruce's loss

#23.1-23.4

these could be skipped - villain stories, also related to Forever Evil event.

#24-28 The Big Burn

optional Batman and Two-Face/Harvey Dent arc, #23.1 is part of this story!

Damian's resurrection and return

#29-32 The Hunt for Robin

Ras took Talia and Damian's bodies from their graves, and Bruce goes after him.

-> Robin Rises: Omega

continues events from #32. if you don't want to jump to this, basically, Glorious Godfrey and a bunch of parademons from Apokolips are here for a chaos shard which Ra's put in Damian's sarcophagus. at some point, Bruce gets a hold of the shard where he sees a vision that leads him to believe Damian can be resurrected. Godfrey ends up taking the shard, along with Damian's body since it was emitting the same energy.

#33-37 Robin Rises

Bruce hellbent on retrieving Damian from Apokolips and reviving him

-> Robin Rises: Alpha

necessary to read and continues events from #37! Damian's back with a bang lol

#38-40 Superpower

Damian adjusting to having superpowers and being alive again

Annual #1 2013 Batman Impossible

sweet (and funny) one-shot of Damian sending Bruce on a meaningful scavenger hunt around the world while Damian gets to be the cutest Batman for a bit

Annual #2 2014 Batman and Robin: Week One

one-shot takes place during Damian's absence. after Bruce and Alfred find a mystery gift left for Dick, Dick recounts a story he had told Damian from his Robin days.

Annual #3 2015 Moonshot

one-shot Batman and Robin adventure on the moon!

...and of course after Batman and Robin (2011), Damian's story continues in his first solo Robin: Son of Batman (2015)!

[ruestheday]

i’m attempting to watch every single batman movie/tv show that i can get my grubby little paws on and rate them. the only rules i have is they have to have batman or something related to batman (like the dark knight trilogy) in its title.

here is my list so far, feel free to suggest anything you think i might’ve missed!

Movies

- Batman (1943)

- Batman and Robin (1949)

- Batman (1966)

- Scooby-Doo Meets Batman (1972)

- Batman (1989)

- Batman Returns (1992)

- Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (1993)

- Batman Forever (1995)

- Batman & Robin (1997)

- Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero (1998)

- Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker (2000)

- Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman (2003)

- Batman vs. Dracula (2005)

- Batman Begins (2005)

- Batman: Gotham Knight (2008)

- The Dark Knight (2008)

- Batman: Under the Red Hood

- Batman: Year One (2011)

- The Dark Knight Rises (2012)

- Batman: The Dark Knight Returns (2013)

- Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Part 2 (2013)

- Batman: Assault on Arkham (2014)

- Son of Batman (2014)

- Batman vs. Robin (2015)

- Batman: The Killing Joke (2016)

- Batman: Bad Blood (2016)

- Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders (2016)

- Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

- Batman and Harley Quinn (2017)

- The Lego Batman Movie (2017)

- Batman vs Two-Face (2017)

- Scooby-Doo! & Batman: The Brave & the Bold (2018)

- Batman: Gotham By Gaslight (2018)

- Batman Ninja (2018)

- Batman vs. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2019)

- Batman: Death in the Family (2020)

- The Batman (2022)

- Batman and Superman: Battle of the Super Sons (2022)

- Merry Little Batman (2023)

TV Shows

- Batman (1966)

- The Adventures of Batman (1968)

- The Batman/Superman Hour (1968)

- The New Adventures of Batman (1977)

- The Batman/Tarzan Adventure Hour (1977)

- Batman: The Animated Series (1992)

- The New Batman Adventures (1997)

- Batman Beyond (1999)

- The Batman (2004)

- Batman the Brave and the Bold (2008)

- Beware the Batman (2013)

- Batman: The Audio Adventures (2021)

- Batman: Caped Crusader (2024)

- Batwheels (2024)

[legok9]

DC Collectable Minifigures

Detective Comics #27 (1939)

Flash Comics #1 (1940)

Sensation Comics #1 (1941)

Wonder Woman #6 (1943)

Detective Comics #267 (1959)

Green Lantern #18 (1963)

Metamorpho #8 (1966)

Mister Miracle #1 (1971)

Tales of the New Teen Titans #1 (1982)

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns (1986)

Aquaman #45 (1998)

JSA: All Stars #4 (2003)

Teen Titans #37 (2006)

Huntress #1 (2011)

Green Lantern #13 (2012)

Superman #1 (2016)

[ultrakeencollectionbreadfan]

Chronological List of Batman Elseworlds (1986-2011)

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns (1986-retcon)

Batman: Gotham by Gaslight (1989)

Batman: Digital Justice (1990)

Batman: Master of the Future (1991)

Batman & Dracula: Red Rain (1991)

Batman: The Blue, the Grey, and the Bat (1992)

Batman/Dark Joker: The Wild (1993)

Batman/Houdini: The Devil’s Workshop (1993)

Robin 3000 (1993)

Batman: Bloodstorm (1994)

Batman: Castle of the Bat (1994)

Batman: In Darkest Knight (1994)

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight Annual #4 (1994)

Detective Comics Annual #7 (1994)

Batman Annual #18 (1994)

Batman: Shadow of the Bat Annual #2 (1994)

Catwoman Vol. 2 Annual #1 (1994)

Robin Vol. 2 Annual #3 (1994)

Batman: Brotherhood of the Bat (1995)

Batman: Man-Bat (1995)

Superman & Batman: Doom Link (1995)

Batman: KnightGallery (1996)

Batman: Dark Allegiances (1996)

Batman: Scar of the Bat (1996)

Batman Annual #20 (1996)

Detective Comics Annual #9 (1996)

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight Annual #6 (1996)

Batman: Shadow of the Bat Annual #4 (1996)

Robin Annual #5 (1996)

Catwoman Annual #3 (1996)

Batman: Dark Knight Dynasty (1997)

Batman: Masque (1997)

Elseworld’s Finest (1997)

Batgirl and Robin: Thrillkiller (1997)

The Batman Chronicles #11 (1997)

Batman: Crimson Mist (1998)

Elseworld’s Finest: Supergirl & Batgirl (1998)

Batgirl and Batman: Thrillkiller ’62 (1998)

Batman: Two Faces (1998)

Batman: I, Joker (1998)

Batman: Reign of Terror (1998)

Superman & Batman: Generations (1998–1999)

Batman: Nosferatu (1999)

Batman: Book of the Dead (1999)

Catwoman: Guardian of Gotham (1999)

Superman and Batman: World’s Funnest (2000)

Realworlds: Batman (2000)

Batman/Lobo (2000)

The Batman of Arkham (2000)

Batman/Demon: A Tragedy (2000)

Batman: The Doom That Came to Gotham (2000)

Batman: Haunted Gotham (2000)

The Batman Chronicles #21 (2000)

Batman: Gotham Noir (2001)

Batman: Hollywood Knight (2001)

Batman: League of Batmen (2001)

Superman & Batman: Generations II (2001)

Batman: The Dark Knight Strikes Again (2001-2002)

Batman: Nine Lives (2002)

Batman: Detective No. 27 (2003)

Batman: The Golden Streets of Gotham (2003)

Batman: Nevermore (2003)

Superman & Batman: Generations III (2003)

Batman: The Order of Beasts (2004)

Batman: Year 100 (2006)

Batman Annual #27 (2009)

Detective Comics Annual #11 (2009)

[nothuman-tips-and-tricks]

May I please ask for some media recommendations for an alienkin?

Media recommendations for: Aliens

Steven Universe (2013)

Steven Universe: The Movie (2019)

Steven Universe Future (2019)

Invader Zim (2001)

Invader Zim: Enter The Florpus (2019)

Alien Xmas (2020)

Megamind (2010)

3 Below: Tales Of Arcadia (2018)

Voltron: Legendary Defender (2016)

Home (2015)

Home: Adventures with Tip And Oh (2018)

She-Ra And The Princesses Of Power (2018)

Futurama (1999)

Down To Earth (2020)

E.T. The Extra Terrestrial (1982)

Planet 51 (2009)

Monsters VS Aliens (2009)

Wonder Over Yonder (2013)

Solar Opposites (2020)

Escape From Planet Earth (2013)

Ben 10 (2005)

Ben 10: Alien Force (2008)

Ben 10: Ultimate Alien (2010)

Ben 10: Omniverse (2012)

Ben 10 (2016)

Guardians Of The Galaxy (2014)

Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 2 (2017)

Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 3 (2023)

Strange Planet [Books] (2019)

Strange Planet [Animated Series] (2023)

Lilo & Stitch (2002)

Lilo & Stitch: The Series (2003)

Lilo & Stitch 2: Stitch Has A Glitch (2005)

Superman (1978)

Superman II (1980)

Superman III (1983)

Superman IV: The Quest for Peace (1987)

Superman Returns (2006)

My Adventures With Superman (2023)

Superman: Unbound (2013)

Superman: Doomsday (2007)

Superman VS. The Elite (2012)

The Batman Superman Movie: World’s Finest (1997)

Superman: Man Of Tomorrow (2020)

Superman: Brianiac Attacks (2006)

All-Star Superman (2011)

[zahri-melitor]

hi hello if it's not too much trouble, what comics would you recommend for someone trying to study the batfamily characters and dynamics for a project? I don't know which writers to avoid or which runs are considered bad characterization. I know this varies with opinion but you seem super familiar with the differences between fanon and canon stuff. don't worry about keeping the list short or anything, I don't have a problem with reading a lot

Honestly, this is a ‘how long is a piece of string’ question, but I can give you some pointers.

Which 'family' characters are you looking at, and which dynamics do you want? Because the thing is, this varies significantly over time. What I can do for you is roughly discuss a bunch of different eras, and what's good content to look at in each of them.

A shortcut - you're often well served by looking at a Gotham-wide Event during the period you're interested in. Sure, people often have some objections to some of the characterisation, but if you're looking at how characters interact, they're the best place to see lots of variations.

In addition 'bad characterisation' is largely in the eye of the beholder. There's actually less agreement on what is and isn't 'bad characterisation' than you might think - it depends on who you're talking to and what stories they like. Characterisation with comics characters is best thought of as a sliding spectrum - there's a range that most people will accept, and when characters go outside it people start getting unhappy. I'll try to note major shifts or universe resets or retcons along the way though.

Pre-Crisis:

Look there is very little in pre-crisis you need to look at for this. Sometimes people will pull stuff forward for Dick and Jason as Robin or Barbara as Batgirl, but largely things stand without this.

Post-Crisis:

I'm happy to walk you through post-crisis up to 2011. I'm still getting a handle on 2011 to present myself.

The Early Days: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Robin, Barbara as Batgirl

In the beginning, there was Batman. One day he went to Haly's Circus where he saw two acrobats falling and their devastated son...you know how this one goes.

Pretty much everything set in this period is flashback stories, so they frequently retread the same ground over and over. Want to see the Graysons fall? You're in luck! Choose one of the more than a dozen versions! (I'm not going to list them all even though I like many)

Quality stories looking at this period include:-

Batman Year One (1986) - Batman #404-407. I am recommending this, yes, even though it's Frank Miller, because it gets referenced a lot. It's a decent retelling and the best work Miller's ever done for the Bat books by a long shot. Bruce's origin story.

Robin: Year One (2000) - Chuck Dixon and Scott Beatty. This is probably my preferred version of early Bruce and Dick stories, and it's conveniently got a sequel in...

Batgirl: Year One (2003) - Chuck Dixon and Scott Beatty. Barbara's origin as Batgirl and the only one worth reading. These two update the Dick and Barbara as Robin and Batgirl dynamics into post-Crisis.

Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet (1997) - Bruce Canwell. This is a single issue about the 'final exam' test Dick took to become Robin. I really enjoy it.

Robin & Batman (2021) - Jeff Lemire. A very recent update of early Dick as Robin. If you want something recent and quick, this is the pick. The characterisation is good but I have a bunch of quibbles with the details.

World's Finest: Batman/Superman (2022) - Mark Waid & Dan Mora. Here's a current ongoing for you! A rarity in that is set reasonably late Dick's time as Robin, and it also doesn't repeat identical beats to those above. Lots of Bruce and Dick, strong Silver Age vibes in relationships, and a lot of fun. A great intro to the wider DC simultaneously too.

Robin II: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Jason as Robin, Barbara as...around

Honestly this is a period I'm weaker on. Jason's post-crisis run as Robin is pretty compact: Batman #401-428 and 'Tec #568-582. Jim Starlin's the writer who wanted to kill Jason off.

Batman #408-411 (1987) - Max Collins. The original post-Crisis 'Dick Becomes Nightwing' and 'Jason becomes Robin' story.

The Diplomat's Son - Batman #424 (1988) - Jim Starlin. This is the issue everyone talks about, where Felipe Garzonas dies. You should read it just to understand the debate, if nothing else.

A Death in the Family - Batman #426-428 (1988) - Jim Starlin. Jason's death.You should read this if you want to understand the dynamics surrounding these events and what actually happened.

The New Teen Titans - look I can't get my head around the numbering of NTT, but if you want to go into this there are eleventy million guides. NTT is very popular. This is Dick as Nightwing during this period, Marv Wolfman and George Perez working together, and considered by people who like Nightwing during this period as the definitive version. Jason appears in a few issues.

Nightwing Year One (2005) - Nightwing #101-106, Chuck Dixon. Now this is going to be extremely controversial, but I do actually recommend people read Nightwing Year One. It's a retcon, but it's an important retcon because it lays out the dynamics of Jason's time as Robin as comics writers have changed them to be following his death. If you want to see how comics writes Jason as the 'angry' and 'risky' Robin following his death, this is the most compact way to see how the narrative changed.

Batgirl Special #1 (1988) - Barbara Randall. Barbara's last appearance as Batgirl. Randall is Barbara's best contemporary Batgirl writer, and this is a loving sendoff for a character who was about to get shredded.

The Killing Joke (1988) - Alan Moore. You should probably read it. Barbara is shot in the spine. However if you want to skip it that's completely fine as the relevant beats have been retold almost as many times as the Graysons have fallen.

Gotham Knights #43-45 (2003) - Scott Beatty. This is probably the best telling of the fallout of Jason's death on the family, particularly Barbara's reaction. If you want Batfam dynamics this is what you should look at.

New Beginnings: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Steph as Spoiler

This is an interesting period in that it's the first threads of what we now call the Batfamily, but they're only just starting to come together as Tim picks each one up. (No, seriously. This era is 'Tim meets people and works with them')

Also as will be the case for a while from here on, at least 50% of all content is written by Chuck Dixon. Now Dixon has his downsides - he's notoriously a conservative homophobe and his views can be seen in the text quite frequently, but he is really good at writing relationships between characters, and he loves a crossover. If you love the modern Batfam, you do have to acknowledge Dixon for his work.

A Lonely Place of Dying (1989) Batman #440-442, New Titans #60-61 - Marv Wolfman & George Perez. Tim's origin story. Very clear on the outset dynamics between Bruce and Dick.

Identity Crisis (1990) Batman #455-457 - Alan Grant. Tim's first night out as Robin in his own costume, plus early dynamics between Bruce & Tim. A tear jerker.

To the Father I Never Knew (1992) Batman #480 - Alan Grant. If you want to actually understand the foundation of Jack and Tim's relationship and how he contrasts it with his relationship with Bruce - look no further.

Robin III (1992) - Chuck Dixon. A very early Tim team-up with Huntress. This is a good place to start for how her relationship with the other Bats evolves in Gotham.

'Tec #647-649 (1992) - Chuck Dixon. Steph's original time out as Spoiler. Again foundational dynamics.

Oracle Year One (1996) Batman Chronicles #5, John Ostrander and Kim Yale. The story of how Barbara became Oracle. Stunning. Essential.

Knightfall: Bruce as Batman, JPV as Azrael and Batman, Dick as Nightwing and Batman, Tim as Robin, everyone else keeping out the way

Knightfall is huge and messy and all over the place but there is magic in here. You just have to dig. Parts I particularly like for family dynamics:-

Batman: Sword of Azrael (1992) - Dennis O'Neil. This is an excellent intro to John-Paul Valley, and get comfortable, because this is what Denny's going to write for the next 10 years.

Batman #488 (1993) - Doug Moench. JPV starts working at Wayne Corp. Tim is assigned to teach him the ropes as a crimefighter in Gotham.

Batman #500 (1993) - Doug Moench. JPV becomes Batman. Dick turns up to complain to Tim about Bruce being insufferable. It's all here.

Bloodbath #1 (1993) - Dan Raspler. This is a terrible comic BUT it also contains some gold dynamics between JPV, Dick and Tim.

Knightsend (1994) - team written. Bruce, Dick and Tim work together to help Bruce rehab from his injury and take down JPV. Legends of the Dark Knight #63 in particular is stunning.

Prodigal (1994) - team written. Dick as Batman and Tim as his Robin. The final issue, Robin #13, has Bruce and Dick's reconciliation over both the fight when Dick became Nightwing AND their fight after Jason died. Essential.

Welcome to the Family: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, JPV as Azrael, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Steph as Spoiler

I will fight to convince you that this is the first true 'Batfam'. Everything prior to this is Bruce and his Robin, with occasional associates. This is where it goes from the Dynamic Duo to a network who intersect constantly.

Writers: It's a lot of Doug Moench and Chuck Dixon still.

Nightwing: Alfred's Return and Batman #521 (1995) - Alan Grant & Doug Moench. Alfred quit during Knightfall due to what Bruce was doing to himself. This is how Dick got him to come home, and the reunion.

Contagion (1996) - team written. The Event where Gotham gets the Clench (aka Ebola). Massive teamup storyline featuring Bruce, Dick, Tim, JPV, Helena, Selina, and Barbara.

Legacy (1997) - team written. Oh no, it's the Clench Round Two. Here we go again. Basically the same team, but JPV doesn't get invited after he proved he'd forgotten was a fax machine was last event, and Helena gets a more significant role.

Robin important family issues during this period: #17 (with Helena), #29-30 (with Barbara), #34 (with Helena), #35 (with Steph), #45 (with Jack Drake), #47 (with Dick)

Nightwing important family issues during this period: #6 (with Tim), #7 (with Babs), #13-14 (with Bruce), #16 (with Babs)

Birds of Prey important family issues during this period: Birds of Prey Manhunt, as it sets the tone for Barbara and Helena's relationship for a WHILE.

No Man's Land: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, JPV as Azrael, Helena as Huntress and the Bat, Barbara as Oracle, Steph as Spoiler, Cass as Batgirl

The earthquake where everything goes wrong. The most notable addition to the writing pool is Greg Rucka. Honestly this is a 'so many parts of this are worthwhile, read it all' sort of period, but to help navigate there's a handful of really important points:-

Nightwing #20 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. The Dick, Babs and Tim reunion issue during Cataclysm. The world's fallen apart but they're back together.

Nightwing #25 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. Dick takes Tim trainsurfing

Brotherhood of the Fist (1998) - Chuck Dixon. This is a teamup with Connor Hawke involving Bruce, Dick and Tim. I love the dynamics here.

Huntress/Spoiler Special - Blunt Trauma (1998) - Chuck Dixon. The one Helena and Steph team up during Cataclysm. Get a dynamic you won't see anywhere else.

'Tec #725 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. Dick tells Bruce that he's going to become a cop.

'Tec #727 (1998) - Chuck Dixon. Another Dick, Babs and Tim teamup to take on Firefly.

Mark of Cain (1999) - Kelley Puckett. Cass's intro story.

Birds of Prey #8 (1999) - Chuck Dixon. Dick and Babs visit Haly's Circus

Robin #67 (1999) - Chuck Dixon. Tim and Dick break into No Man's Land.

Legends of the Dark Knight #120 (1999) - Greg Rucka. Team reunion in NML at the Clocktower.

Nightwing #38-39 (1999) - Chuck Dixon - Babs looks after an injured Dick in the Clocktower.

Legends of the Dark Knight #125 (1999) - Greg Rucka. Bruce and Jim finally discuss their issues. Barbara and Tim wait upstairs.

Endgame (1999) - various. Whole team works to track down Joker and some kidnapped babies on Christmas Eve.

A New City, A New Team: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, JPV as Azrael, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Cass as Batgirl, Steph as Spoiler

This is the final Chuck Dixon era, the Rucka & Brubaker run on Batman and 'Tec, Devin Grayson on Gotham Knights, and probably my favourite era of comics ever. It's hit after hit after hit. Pick up any comic here. You won't be disappointed.

Major highlights not to miss:

Gotham Knights #1-12 (2000) - Devin Grayson. GK is my favourite Bat anthology book ever, but this run includes Transference. The overarching plot is Bruce analysing his team in a series of case notes. Unmissable.

Hunt for Oracle (2000) - Chuck Dixon. The US government tries to track Oracle down. Babs, Dick and Dinah make sure they fail.

Officer Down (2001) - various. Jim Gordon is shot. This is the consequences as people search for his attacker.

Joker Last Laugh (2001) - various. Joker thinks he is about to die and breaks out of the Slab. Chaos ensues. This is the one where everyone thinks Croc kills Tim, and reacts accordingly.

Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive (2002) - various. Bruce has been pushing everyone away for a while, so when he's accused of murder, they must ask the question, did he do it? Everyone tries to solve the mystery of who killed Vesper Fairchild, and Bruce goes through one of his 'am I Bruce or am I Batman' periods.

Batgirl #18 & #20 (2001) - Kelley Puckett. Cass' first team ups with Tim and Steph respectively.

Batman/Huntress: Cry for Blood (2000) - Greg Rucka. THE definitive Batfam Huntress book.

Hush It Looks Like War: Bruce as Batman, Dick as Nightwing, Tim as Robin, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress, Cass as Batgirl, Steph as Spoiler and Robin

Among the drama of Murderer/Fugitive, almost every single book gets a new writer. Jon Lewis takes Robin followed by Bill Willingham, Devin Grayson takes Nightwing, Birds of Prey gets fills until Gail Simone picks it up, Dylan Horrocks takes over Batgirl, Jeph Loeb writes Hush on Batman, Scott Beatty takes Gotham Knights. Personally I endorse basically all these runs but Grayson on Nightwing is controversial.

Hush (2003) Batman #608-619 - Jeph Loeb. Famous for a reason, this is a Bruce story that touches on his relationships with almost EVERY major character in his life (Cass and Steph miss out).

Gotham Knights - Scott Beatty. I don't know what to pick here but #47-49 is a team story of Bruce, Dick, Tim and Cass following Bane to a Kobra stronghold which shows off the developed family-like relationship between the 4 at this point.

Robin - Jon Lewis. Your highlights here are Tim and Steph on a date together (#111), and the 16th Birthday Story (#116-120) because it's essential to understanding where Tim and Bruce are at.

Robin - Bill Willingham. Jack finds out Tim is Robin. Tim quits. Steph becomes Robin. It's an essential arc.

Nightwing - Grayson. This is widely disliked but #81 is a great Dick, Bruce and Cass issue.

Birds of Prey - Simone. Helena joins Barbara on the Birds of Prey. They very, very slowly work through their issues with each other.

Batgirl - Horrocks. #38, Steph and Cass play tag. #45, Cass tries on Barbara's old costume. #50, Bruce drugs himself and Cass with Soul and they fight. #54, Barbara and Cass argue over her reading ability.

And then lurking in the background...War Games hits and tears the Batfam apart, with a doubletap from Identity Crisis.

Leaving Gotham: Bruce as Batman, Dick out of costume, Tim as Robin, Cass as Batgirl, Barbara as Oracle, Helena as Huntress annnnd Jason as Red Hood

Steph is dead. Barbara and Helena leave Gotham for Metropolis. Tim and Cass move to Bludhaven. Dick runs off to join the mob. And in Gotham, Red Hood appears.

Writers: Well we've added Judd Winick on Batman, and now have Andersen Gabrynch on Batgirl. Gotham Knights is now mostly A.J. Lieberman and no longer a good Batfam book (it's now a Hush book). 'Tec honestly isn't worth it during this period. Willingham on Robin has a handful of decent issues to start out then increasingly gets weirdly conservative with some very odd plotlines.

Fresh Blood (2005) Robin #132-133, Batgirl #58-59 - Willingham & Gabrynch. This is a Tim and Cass team up as they move to Bludhaven and mourn together.

Under the Red Hood (2005) - Batman #635-650. You know what this is. It's the Jason returns story.

Nightwing - Grayson. #100 - a strong reflection on Dick's past plus the most heartbreaking part of the Dick/Babs breakup as Dick just runs from all his problems. #110. Tim and Dick meet in Bludhaven and fail to tell each other all the bad things happening in their lives. #112. Dick and Helena run into each other both undercover in the mob. #117. Dick finally talks to Bruce about Blockbuster, and proposes to Babs.

Robin - Willingham. #134 is the pick of the bunch - Bruce offers to adopt Tim and Tim reflects on his time as Robin, though it's a solid little story out to #138 as the truth about Uncle Eddie comes out.

Birds of Prey - Simone. #76, the Babs side of the breakup. #83-84, Helena with the mob and encountering Dick. #90, Helena gives Bruce the new compiled mob data handbook and Bruce compliments her.

Batgirl - Gabrynch. This is a strong well loved run for the build up to Cass' final fight with Shiva, but for Batfam you can't go past #67, when Cass reunites with Babs. Also Cass hallucinates Steph twice in this run (#61 & #72).

Then Infinite Crisis arrives and we all move a year into the future.

One Year Later: Bruce is Batman, Dick is Nightwing, Tim is Robin, Jason is Red Hood, Damian arrives, Cass eventually returns to Batgirl

At this point Barbara and Helena are largely doing their own thing with the Birds of Prey and won't return to the Batfam until Reborn.

New writers all around! Adam Beechen and Fabian Nicieza on Robin, Marv Wolfman and Peter Tomasi on Nightwing, Adam Beechen on Batgirl, Grant Morrison on Batman and Paul Dini on Detective Comics.

Face the Face (2006) Batman #651-654, 'Tec #817-820 - James Robinson. The Bruce and Tim story that set up Tim's adoption.

Batman and Son (2006) Batman #655-658 - Grant Morrison. Damian's introduction to the family.

Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul (2008) - various. Ra's tries to kidnap Damian to steal his body. Bruce, Dick and Tim go to rescue him. Dick and Tim's subplot involves the highest point of their brotherhood as Dick talks Tim out of trying resurrect his lost dead.

Robin - Beechen. #156, the suicide prevention issue, for Tim and Dick. #163, Tim and Bruce on their first Father's Day. #165, Tim and Bruce working on a car together.

Robin - Nicieza. Steph's return as Spoiler. #177, where Jason thinks he can recruit Tim (and fails miserably).

Nightwing - Wolfman. You know what? #117-122, the 'Jason dresses as Nightwing and harasses Dick and turns into a tentacle monster' saga. Does everyone like to say it's out of character? Yes. Is it Jason being just as annoying as he will proceed to be all the way to 2011? Also yes. That's Jason's post-Crisis character.

Nightwing - Tomasi. Freefall, #140-146. This is just a beautiful encapsulation of Dick's many connections, of his teamwork with Bruce and Tim, and of what makes him tick.

Heart of Hush (2008) 'Tec #846-850 - Paul Dini. The premise is ridiculous, but it's about Bruce and Selina, and about Dick and Tim helping track down Hush.

Batgirl (2008) - Adam Beechen. Beechen after squiffing it with the Evil Cass saga, gets to undo the damage to Cass's character and return her to the family. I think it's a pretty successful job, despite Dick spending the entire book holding the idiot ball so someone can be unsupportive. Cass gets adopted. Tim and Barbara never lose their faith in her.

Battle for the Cowl: EVERYONE IS FREEFORM

Everyone will tell you this is all horribly out of character. They're wrong. Come for Fabian Nicieza doing hard work to actually set up characters in the places they need to be for Reborn.

Battle for the Cowl: the Network (2009) - Fabian Nicieza. Oracle and the Birds of Prey have returned to Gotham but for reasons they're not calling themselves the Birds of Prey, so it's the Network.

Oracle The Cure (2009) - Kevin VanHook. Early set up for Wendy Harris' future plot. Babs gets the mentoring itch again.

Azrael: Death's Dark Knight (2009) - Fabian Nicieza. A new Azrael for a splinter faction of the Order of St Dumas appears. Dick and Babs are immediately suspicious (and Dick has to be talked out of immediately kicking the Azrael's butt just on the SUSPICION it might be JPV).

Also the main event books happen and everyone yells at each other a lot about who should be Batman.

Batman Reborn: Bruce is missing, Dick is Batman, Tim is Red Robin, Damian is Robin, Jason is Red Hood, Barbara is Oracle, Steph is Batgirl, Cass is Black Bat

New titles! New writers! Things all over the place! People who like Jason are going to claim all of Jason's appearances are once again out of character, but Jason fans claim that about every time Jason breathes outside of UTRH, Lost Days and a small handful of very select stories after Flashpoint. I'm just saying, villain Jason is pretty consistently irritating between 2007 and 2011.

Red Robin #1-12 (2009) - Chris Yost. Not only Tim's new costume arc, but a great look at Tim's centrality as a character to the Batfam in the number of contacts he calls in at the end of the run.

Red Robin #17 & #25 (2010) - Fabian Nicieza. Tim and Cass working together as siblings and backing each other up.

Batman & Robin #20-22 (2011) - Peter Tomasi. I would strongly argue this is the best arc in B&R with the best characterisation.

Batman & Robin (2009) - Grant Morrison. Look, a lot of people like the foundation of Dick and Damian's relationship found here. Also Jason shows up to be a pain.

Streets of Gotham (2009) - Paul Dini. There's a bunch of good storylines in this anthology book, but #5-6 with Dick, Helena and Kirk Langstrom is one I particularly like.

Batman #703 (2010) - Fabian Nicieza. The best Dick, Damian and Tim team-up issue of Reborn.

Gates of Gotham (2011) - Scott Snyder. The masterpiece of Batfamily content. Dick, Tick, Damian and Cass all feature in this and all 6 possible relationships are shown in different parts.

Batgirl #3-5, #17 (2009) - Bryan Q. Miller. Damian and Steph team ups, plus a look into the tension in the Dick and Barbara relationship at the time.

Birds of Prey #10 (2011) - Gail Simone. Barbara discusses her new realignment of how she's working as Oracle and focusing on the Bats.

The Black Mirror (2010) 'Tec #871-881 - Scott Snyder. Some of the best writing of Dick as Batman during this period, and a look into his relationships with Jim Gordon, Barbara, and Tim particularly.

The Return Home (2010) - various. Bruce comes back to Gotham after his 'death' and checks in on everyone.

[mydarlingbat]

How many Batman movies you watched?

😂 I honestly can't get enough of theses questions.

THE BATMAN (1943). BATMAN AND ROBIN (1949). BATMAN (1966). BATMAN (1989). BATMAN RETURNS (1992). BATMAN FOREVER (1995). BATMAN & ROBIN (1997). BATMAN BEGINS (2005). THE DARK KNIGHT (2008)THE DARK KNIGHT RISES (2012) BATMAN vs SUPERMAN (2016) JUSTICE LEAGUE (2017 BATMAN: MASK OF THE PHANTASM (1993). BATMAN: SUBZERO (1998) BATMAN: MYSTERY OF THE BATWOMAN (2003) BATMAN BEYOND: THE MOVIE (1999) BATMAN BEYOND: RETURN OF THE JOKER (2000) SCOOBY DOO MEETS BATMAN (2002) THE BATMAN VS. DRACULA (2005) BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHT. (2008) BATMAN: UNDER THE RED HOOD (2010) BATMAN: YEAR ONE (2011). BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS (2012 & 2013) BATMAN: THE KILLING JOKE (2016). BATMAN: ASSAULT ON ARKHAM (2014). BATMAN: RETURN OF THE CAPED CRUSADERS (2016) BATMAN AND HARLEY QUINN (2017) THE LEGO BATMAN MOVIE (2017)

Movies I haven't watched yet.

BATMAN VS. TWO FACE (2017) SCOOBY DOO AND BATMAN: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD (2018) BATMAN: GOTHAM BY GASLIGHT (2018) SON OF BATMAN (2014) BATMAN VS. ROBIN (2015) BATMAN: BAD BLOOD (2016)

[mogwai-movie-house]

The 50 Greatest Sequels of All Time

The finest follow-ups, ranked and rated high to low.

The Godfather Part II (1974) ★★★★★★★★★★

The Dark Knight (2008) ★★★★★★★★★★

Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991) ★★★★★★★★★★

Aliens (1986) ★★★★★★★★★✰

Back to the Future Part III (1990) ★★★★★★★★★✰

The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002) ★★★★★★★★★✰

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1966) ★★★★★★★★★✰

Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014) ★★★★★★★★★✰

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989) ★★★★★★★★½✰

Hannibal (2001) ★★★★★★★★½✰

Road to Utopia (1945) ★★★★★★★★½✰

The Empire Strikes Back (1980) ★★★★★★★★½✰

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

Manon of the Spring (1986) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

Die Hard with a Vengeance (1995) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

Addams Family Values (1993) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (2017) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

Deadpool 2 (2018) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

Hellboy II: The Golden Army (2008) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

Superman II (1980) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

Toy Story 3 (2010) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

Bride of Frankenstein (1935) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

Monsters University (2013) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

Shrek 2 (2004) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

Kill Bill: Vol. 2 (2004) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

X-Men 2 (2003) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

Airplane II: The Sequel (1982) ★★★★★★★★✰✰

The Spy Who Shagged Me (1999) ★★★★★★★½✰✰

Finding Dory (2016) ★★★★★★★½✰✰

Men in Black³ (2012) ★★★★★★★½✰✰

Three Colors: Red (1994) ★★★★★★★½✰✰

Batman Returns (1992) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

Psycho II (1983) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

A Shot in the Dark (1964) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

Spider-Man 2 (2004) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

Escape from the Planet of the Apes (1971) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

Top Gun: Maverick (2022) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

The Bourne Supremacy (2004) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

The Color of Money (1986) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

Naked Gun 33 1/3: The Final Insult (1994) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

The Four Musketeers: Milady's Revenge (1974) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol (2011) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

10 Cloverfield Lane (2016) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

The Incredible Hulk (2008) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

Police Academy 3: Back in Training (1986) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

Sin City: A Dame to Kill For (2014) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

The Lost World: Jurassic Park (1997) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

The Enforcer (1976) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

Attack of the Clones (2002) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

After the Thin Man (1936) ★★★★★★★✰✰✰

[tiredofsatansbullshit]

Jason Todd Reading List

Pre-Crisis Robin

(this includes his origin, how he becomes Robin, and what happens to this version of Jason in the Pre-Crisis Timeline)

Batman #357-399 (1983-1986)

Detective Comics #524-567 (1983-1986)

Batman #400-403 (1986-1987)

Crisis on Infinite Earths #5, #9, #11-12 (1985-1986)

Post Crisis Robin

(includes his origin, how he becomes Robin and his death - i tried to have this chronologically according to when these events take place so that means the publishing order is a bit weird)

Nightwing #103-106 - Collected as Nightwing: Year One

Batman #402-403, #408-425, #430-431

Batman Annual #10-12

Tales of the Teen Titans #86-91

Legends

Detective Comics #575-578

Batman: Full Circle

Superman Annual #11 (1985)

Blue Devil #19 (1986)

New Teen Titans #18-31 (1986-1987)

Action Comics #556, #594

Batman: The Cult

Batman: A Death in the Family

Post Death Mentions

(includes any mentions, memories or appearances of Jason's "ghost" after his death. honestly, you don't need to read these to follow along for Jason's storyline but they show how those who cared about him dealt with his death.)

Batman #432-435, #496 (1987-1993)

Detective Comics #606, #609 (1989)

Underworld Unleashed #2 (1995)

Batman/Demon (1996)

Nightwing #10 (1997)

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #100 (1997)

Nightwing: Secret Files and Origins (1999)

Jokers Last Laugh (2001)

Joker: Last Laugh Secret Files and Origins (2001)

Deadman: Dead Again (2001)

Batman: Gotham Knights 16, #34, #43-45 (2001-2003)

JLA Avengers #2 (2003)

Batman: Gotham Country line (2005)

Detective Comics #790 (2004)

Batman #620-630 (2004)

Red Hood

Red Hood: The Lost Days - This is before Jason returns to Gotham as the Red Hood. It shows a bit of what he did after coming back to life

Hush/Batman #608-619 (2002-2003)

Batman: Under the Red Hood

Teen Titans V2 #29

Nightwing V2 #118-124 - collected in - Nightwing: Brothers in Blood

Outsiders V3 #44-46

Outsiders V3 Annual 1

Green Arrow V3 #69-72

Countdown to Final Crisis: Countdown to Final Crisis #51 (2007) Teen Titans #47 (2007) Countdown to Final Crisis #50-33 (2007) All New Atom #13-15 (2007) Countdown to Final Crisis #31-1 (2007-2008)

Battle for the Cowl: Robin #177, #182-183 (2008-2009) Azrael: Deaths Dark Knight #3 (2009) Batman: Battle for the Cowl (2009) Batman and Robin #3-6, #23-25 (2009-2011)

New 52 Red Hood

Batman #0

Secret Origins #5

Red Hood and The Outlaws V1 #1-14 (2011-2015)

DC Universe Presents #17 (2015)

Batman: Death of the Family: Batman #13-15 Red Hood and The Outlaws #15 Teen Titans #15 Batman #16 Red Hood and The Outlaws #16 Teen Titans #16 Batman #17

Red Hood and The Outlaws #17 (2013)

Batman and Robin #10-12, #17 (2012-2013)

Batman Inc (2012-2013)

Red Hood and The Outlaws #18 (2013)

Justice League #19 (2013)

Batman and Robin #20 (2013)

Supergirl #35 (2014)

Batman/Superman Annual 1 (2014)

Action Comics #34 (2014)

Action Comics Annual 3 (2014)

Batman and Robin #33-37 (2014-2015)

Red Hood and The Outlaws #19 (2013)

Red Hood and The Outlaws Annual 1 (2013)

Red Hood and The Outlaws #20-40 (2013-2015)

Batman Eternal #10-12,#15 ,#18-20 ,#25 ,#26 ,#28 (2014-2015)

Grayson #12 (2015)

Deathstroke V3 #15-16 (2014)

Batman/Superman #25-27 (2014)

Red Hood/Arsenal #1-6 (2015)

Batman and Robin Eternal (2015-2016)

Robin War: Robin War #1 (2015) Grayson #15 (2015) Detective Comics #47 (2015) Red Hood/Arsenal #7 (2015) We are Robin #7 (2015) Robin: Son of Batman #7 (2015) Robin War #6 (2016)

Red Hood/Arsenal #8-13 (2015-2016)

Rebirth Red Hood

(current continuity)

Red Hood and The Outlaws V2 #1-6

Batman #16

Nightwing #15 (2017)

Trinity Annual 1

Trinity #12-15 (2017) - This and Trinity Annual 1 is also known as Dark Destiny Arc

Red Hood and The Outlaws #7-18

Red Hood and The Outlaws Annual 1

Batman #33 (2017)

Detective Comics #967-968 (2017)

New Talent Showcase (2017)

Batman and The Signal #1, #3 (2018)

Batman: Prelude to the Wedding: Red Hood vs Anarky

Red Hood and The Outlaws #26-31

Red Hood and The Outlaws Annual 2

Teen Titans #22 (2018)

Teen Titans Annual 1 (2019)

Red Hood: Outlaw #31-36 - Continuing on from the Red Hood and The Outlaws comics but Jason is on his own now.

Red Hood: Outlaw Annual 3

Event Leviathan #2-3 (2019)

Harley Quinn: Villain of the Year (2019)

Red Hood: Outlaw #37-47

Batman: Alfred R.I.P #1 (2020)

Robin 80th Anniversary (2020)

Joker War: Nightwing #72 (2020) Red Hood: Outlaw #49 (2020) Batman #100 (2020)

Detective Comics #1030-1033 (2020)

Teen Titans #45 (2020)

Red Hood: Outlaw #50-52 (2020)

Batman: Urban Legends #1-6

Truth & Justice #10-12

Batman Secret Files: Clownhunter #1

Robin #5 (2021)

Nightwing Annual 1

Detective Comics #1041-1043, #1052, #1057

Task Force Z #1-12 (2021-2022)

The Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing #2-10 (2022-2023) - This is still ongoing, I will update when new issues that Jason appears in is published - in 6 and 7 Jason is only there for a few panels

Batman: Legends of Gotham (2023)

Lazarus Planet: Next Evolution (2023)

Batman 136 (2023)

Knight Terrors: Robin (2023)

Gotham War: ongoing

Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Prelude [2023] Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Battle lines[2023] Catwoman 57 [2023] Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Red Hood #1 [2023] Batman 138 [2023] Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War:Red Hood #2 [2023] Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Scorched Earth - releasing 31/10/23

Nightwing 107 [2023]

Future State

(I'll be honest, I don't understand Future State vs current continuity so I can't explain much for this but it's a possible future timeline I think. Jason is undercover as a cop in this btw)

Dark Detective

Future State: Gotham #1-18

Alternate Universes

(can chose what among these you want to read. none of this affects the current continuity)

Batwoman #6 (2017)

- In this comic, Batwoman travels to an alternate universe where we see a Jason Todd who was never taken in by Bruce Wayne and ends up becoming a priest

DC Universe Legacies #5,6

Batman The Brave and the bold #13 (2012)

Li’l Gotham #2, #10, #12, #17, #20, #21, #24 (2012-2013)

- This comic is adorable

Tiny Titans #23, #29, #33, #39, #45, #47 (2010-2012)

- This comic is also adorable

Convergence: Batman and Robin (2015)

Arkhamverse: (these tie in with the Batman: Arkham Knight video game)

Arkham Knight: Genesis

Batman: Arkham Knight - the game picks up right after the end of this comic

DC Comics’ Bombshells #46, #60, #62 (2015-2016)

Bombshells United #18-24 (2018)

The Dark Knight Returns: The Last Crusade #1 (2016)

Injustice: (these tie in with the Injustice video games)

Injustice - Gods Among Us: Year Five #38 (2016)

Injustice 2 #2-3, #5-7, #13, #18-20, #46-49 (2017-2018)

Injustice Vs. The Masters Of The Universe (2018)

Beware the Batman #11 (2014)

Batman: White Knight #7 (2018)

Mother Panic: Gotham A.D #2-6 (2018)

Batman Beyond #25 (2018)

Batman/Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III #5-6 (2019)

Titans Giant #1-4 (2020)

DCEASED: Unkillables (2020)

DCEASED: Dead Planet #2-5 (2020)

Batman the Adventure Continues (2020)

Batman: Three Jokers #1-3 (2020)

Suicide Squad: Get Joker! #1-3 (2021)

Titans United (2021)

- This was to promote the Titans HBO show (even though it does not tie with the show)

DC's Round Robin - Robins (2021)

DC vs Vampires

Dark Knights of Steel: (Ongoing, I will update as they are posted. Medieval AU, the Robins are all younger and met each other before they met Bruce)

Dark Knights of Steel: Tales from the Three Kingdoms

Dark Knights of Steel #1

Batman vs Robin (2022)

- Some more honesty, I haven't got a clue as to what this fits in with so I can't help much with this but I do know that it will be 5 issues, finishing in 2023

Batman - Beyond The White Knight #1, #4-8 (2022) (ongoing)

Batman White Knight Presents: Red Hood #1-2 (2022)

Batman: Wayne Family Adventures (Ongoing series on Webtoon.)

Red Hood: Outlaws (Ongoing series on Webtoon)

Batman: The Brave and the Bold #1, #4 (2023) - at the end we get to see an alternate universe where young Jason and Dick are brothers and first meet Bruce

Other Media

TV Shows

Batman: The Brave and The Bold, Season 2 Episode 19 - In this universe, Dick Grayson is the only Robin but in S2 E19, "Emperor Joker" features a scene in Bat-Mite's extra-dimensional museum where Bat-Mite has a statue depicting Jason's death. Bat-Mite then breaks the fourth wall and tells Batman that readers voted for Jason to die.

Young Justice - S2 E8, S2 E9, S2 E20, S4 E19 an image of Jason as Robin is seen with other memorials for heros. - Jason is also thought to be the Red Hooded Ninja who appears in S3 E6, S4 E5, S4 E8

Titans - Seasons 1 and 2 with a short cameo in season 3 of the HBO show

Movies

Batman: Under the Red Hood - Animated movie that changes the storyline of Jason's death, resurrection and return to Gotham

Batman: Death in the Family (2020) - This is an interactive film involving the events of Batman: Death in the Family comics.

Lego DC Batman: Family Matters (2019)

Video Games

Batman: Arkham Knight - Arkham Knight: Genesis and Batman: Arkham Knight comics are set before the events of this game.

Injustice: (these tie in with the Injustice comics listed above under Alternate Universes) Injustice: Gods Among us (mentioned) Injustice 2

Gotham Knights - The Batfamily (Dick, Barbara, Jason and Tim) protecting Gotham, as well as dealing with the death of Batman. This was very recently released and I haven't played it so I can't tell you much.

I just want to add the following: I cannot guarantee that this is 100% accurate or up to date. I will do my best to update when we get new Jason content. I have not had any help with this and got the information from multiple other sources. Because I've had no help, no one has proof checked this so there might be some errors.

If you notice any errors or know of anything I've missed please let me know and I will fix the error as soon as I can!

Last Updated: 25 October 2023

[fractualized]

hi!! i hope you don’t mind me asking this but i recently read harleen (specifically issue 1) and wondered if you might know of any other comics that have an outsider perspective of batjokes? thanks !!

I don't mind at all, anon! I also enjoy in-universe outside perspectives on Batman and Joker's relationship (and I've included quite a bit of it in fic). Harleen #1 does have a pretty great one:

The most common commentary on Batman and Joker from other characters is the ol' "why haven't you killed him yet?!" but that reflects more frustration than any inkling of the connection between Gotham's most famous nemeses. So with the help of @distort-opia, I wrangled panels from a couple dozen comics that show characters having a better (even if incomplete) understanding of what the heck is going on there.

Many of these may already be familiar if you've been around batjokes fandom long enough. Regardless, spoilers abound!

I've ordered these (mostly) in cover date order.

June 1996 - The Batman Chronicles #5

This is a flashback that takes place shortly after The Killing Joke. Barbara is understandably bitter about being fridged, and it's clear that officers who saw Batman and Joker laughing together have spread the word, because heyyyyy wtf?

October 1996 - Catwoman (1993) #38

Selina knows releasing other rogues is a good distraction; Batman is always more concerned about Joker than her.

May 1997 - Batman: Batgirl

Before this, Joker was firing his gun willy-nilly, hitting his own men, and he hit Batman accidentally. Barbara doesn't seem to think he fully understands the consequences of killing Batman, especially given the surprise he shows when Batman goes down.

Five years later, this story gets retold (with a worse rendition of Joker's fantastic oufit):

July 2002 - DC First: Batgirl/Joker 

In this version, Barbara more actively realizes she needs to get at Joker by laughing at him, because he's caught up in a reality where Batman is the only other real person. (Not sure if this is the first comic to posit that idea, but it has shown up elsewhere.)

February 1999 - Catwoman (1993) #65

Joker has been terrorizing Catwoman for Batman-related reasons for a few issues, and she knows that saying she's killed Batman will devastate him. (You know, the more stories like this I see, the more I see Tom King actually didn't have too far a walk to jokerize Selina.)

August 2001 - Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (1989) #144

Alfred has noticed that Joker's presence affects Bruce's behavior. 

September 2003 - Batman: Gotham Knights #43

This take from Barbara is set before TKJ and meant to foreshadow (aftershadow?) it. Here she shows a better understanding of Batman and Joker's relationship than Bruce does.

October 2003 - Outsiders (2003) #3

Luthor knows just how to get under Joker's skin.

March 2011 - Streets of Gotham #19

Hush also knows how to get under Joker's skin.

March 2011 - Gotham City Sirens #19 

Selina and Harley are thinking more about themselves here, but it's not hard to connect the dots. Joker is part of the criminal morass that Bruce is focused on fighting, and Joker's focus is constantly on how to best the Batman.

November 2011 - Batman: Noël

Bruce has been told that Catwoman has information about the Joker's whereabouts. Note that Selina isn't saying she's aware that Joker is up to something right now; she implies that Batman is always thinking about Joker. It's a fact she can bank on.

May 2013 - Injustice: Gods Among Us #4 (digital release #11) 

Perhaps the most infamous example. This is related to the "why won't you kill him?" trope, but Clark's accusation takes it further by directly saying it's because Bruce loves fighting Joker more than he loves his friends and family.

Clark says something similar about Joker being Bruce's playmate in another comic:

August 2014 - Adventures of Superman (2013) #14 (digital release #41

Even outside of the Injustice universe, Clark knows Bruce's priorities are out of whack when it comes to Joker.

January 2013 - Catwoman (2011) #14

Selina just stating the obvious here, again after a now-faceless Joker has tormented her for Batman-related reasons for a couple issues.

April 2016 - Batman (2011) #49

Heartbreaking example from Alfred here. He watched Bruce's obsessiveness and understood that Bruce, consciously or subconsciously, saw dying with Joker as his destiny. He probably suspects that Joker didn't really die either and knows they're going to end up back on the same track.

April 2016 - Batman: Europa #4

These panels sum up Europa. Bane, always looking for fresh ways to break the Bat, saw Joker as a clear catalyst (even if he had to make up a convoluted plot to make Batman see it first).

January 2017 - All-Star Batman #4 (backer)

Duke is pretty much repeating Bruce's soliloquy from Death of the Family here, so he's not saying anything Bruce doesn't really know, but he doesn't know that Bruce knows. lol Interestingly, this happens before Dark Days: The Casting, in which Duke watches Joker demonstrate his love in a more positive way by trying to stop Bruce from blundering into everything that happens in Dark Nights: Metal and beyond.

January 2018 - Batman: White Knight #2

White Knight is problematic from a batjokes standpoint (and other standpoints!) but poor Harley presents another infamous outsider perspective here.

October 2018 - Harley/Gossamer Special

She's right and right to say it!

August 2020 - Birds of Prey (2020) 

This take is interesting in how it posits that Joker already felt unfulfilled by Batman by the time he met Harley and that she was kind of a rebound.

August 2020 - The Joker 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular

This is from "The Last Smile," in which Harley reveals Joker's recurring nightmare about Batman mocking him as he's put to death. Joker didn't picture Harley appearing to save him, but perhaps he felt like Batman's respect was "saving" him all the long.

September 2020 - Batgirl (2016) #47

Nooooo! That's the thing he's sensitive about!

April 2021 - Batman/Catwoman #3

I have… a lot of thoughts about Batman/Catwoman, few positive, but if you can push past the muddling storytelling technique (and the batcat if that's not your thing), Selina has a lot to say about Bruce and Joker's relationship, like in this and the following example.

May 2021 - Batman/Catwoman #4

Catwoman describes how Batman treats all his rogues and then equates that with how he treats his lovers. How much do you know, Selina? Who is Joker's main competition?? It's Harvey, isn't it?!

May 2022 - Detective Comics (2016) #1058 (backer)

Even newbie F-level antagonists like The Forgotten know what's up!

Well, that was a lengthy but surely not exhaustive account of what other DC characters think about the vibes between the Dark Knight and Clown Prince of Crime. (May they be bewildered for years to come!) I hope you spotted some comics that caught your interest, anon.

[ikibli]

Continuity Issues

Marvel: If it's a movie, it's MCU canon. If it's a comic, it's comic canon, unless it's a What-If. Simple.

DC: For only Batman and only comics, we have the followings series... (takes deep breath)...Detective Comics, Detective Comics New 52 Reboot, Detective Comics DC Rebirth, Batman, Batman New 52 Reboot, Batman DC Rebirth, World's Finest Comics, Superman/Batman, The Joker 1970, The Joker 2021, Batman Family, Batman and the Outsiders 1983, Batman and the Outsiders 1993, Batman and the Outsiders 2003, Batman and the Outsiders 2019, Legends of the Dark Knight, Batman: Shadow of the Bat, Robin, Red Robin, Nightwing, Nightwing DC Rebirth, Grayson, Batman Gotham Knights, Batman Confidential, Batgirl 2009, Batgirl 2011, Batman and Robin 2009...

Okay I think you get the hint now, but the fact remains that the above is only like 3% of the full list of Batman media and approximately 20% of the comics, and literally any of these could be canon depending on how you squint.

At least this gives you an excuse for cherrypicking the canon you want when writing fanfic.

[pluckyredhead]

Red Hood and the Outlaws #1 (2011)

It's been a while since I've read RHATO, so I figured I'd reread it - and if I'm doing that, why not make you all suffer with me? I will probably get tired of this before I finish all the various series, but let's see how far we get.

Roy, that would probably work better if your bow had a string.

The issue begins with Roy in a prison in Qurac for trying to overthrow a dictator. He's rescued by Jason, in disguise as a pastor in a fat suit (sigh). There's so much wrong with these opening pages: the fat suit, the writing off an entire Middle Eastern nation as evil and corrupt, the fact that there's no way even a collapsed bow would fit inside a hollowed-out bible, the lazy way the panel layouts waste space...and yet. And yet.

These pages. THESE FUCKING PAGES. "His name is Roy Harper. He's an idiot. Nice guy, but an idiot." "His name is Jason Todd. A lot of people say he's crazy...Let's just say the Red Hood is my kind of crazy!"

This kind of parallel narration always makes me think of the 2003 Superman/Batman comic, which used it extensively, to extremely (and likely unintentionally?) homoerotic effect. After I read this issue, I told a friend that I got it now: Red Hood and the Outlaws was Superman/Batman for edgelords.

Which is to say, I'm pretty sure I started shipping these assholes just from these first terrible pages.

(But seriously, there are three pages up there and only five panels. Five panels! Plus some pointless maroon boxes that don't do anything! I want my money back.)

This panel is super misleading, because it implies that Roy and Jason know each other well enough for Jason to tease Roy about being a chatterbox, but later issues will show that barely know each other at this point. But then, trying to keep the backstories straight in this or any Lobdell book is like watching sand run out between your fingers.

And again here, it implies that they were already friends, a team, partners...something. But later we'll learn that they only met once, and it was years ago, when they were kids, so...what gives?

(This page is actually interesting, because Jason is constantly saying playfully mean things to Roy and Roy never seems to mind, but here he clearly hurts Roy, and he knows it.)

Siiiiigh.

To add insult to injury, Jason immediately announces that he's fucked Kori. You'll notice I aggressively ignore this in every fic I've ever written. Part of that is because I love Secret Virgin Jason, but also it just doesn't mesh with his and Kori's relationship throughout the rest of the series or his hilarious lack of game in general, and it's also so inextricably part of Amnesiac Sex Doll Kori that I just want nothing to do with it.

HATE. HAAAAAATE. The devious smile on Jason's face in the bottom row and Roy's calculating expression are so deeply disgusting to me. "This woman can't meaningly consent! She's like a cave fish with a vagina! Sweet!" Scott Lobdell is a vile human being and so is everyone who signed off on this piece of shit. (Fun fact: this was a HUGE controversy when the New 52 launched and the outcry was so loud they walked it back in a later issue when Kori tells Roy she...just lied about all of that for no reason? Okay.)

Also, "ask her about the gang you used to hang with." Uh...what gang is that, Jason? Because Donna didn't exist at this point, Wally was 12, Garth was a literal baby, Vic joined the League immediately upon getting his powers, and Gar was a child being tortured in a lab somewhere. So was it just Roy, Dick, and Raven? And they certainly weren't the Titans, because Tim's team was the founders in this continuity...which Lobdell should have known, since he was also writing that book.

The person asking to speak to Jason is Essence, his ex, who tells him something cryptic about murder victims with missing organs.

YOU DON'T KNOW MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE EITHER, ROY!!! "Remember Garth? The baby?" (Literally, he is a baby who shows up for one panel. In Atlantis.) And who the fuck is Dustin?

Anyway, Kori propositions Roy and he's like "Sure, why not." Did the target audience actually think this was hot? It's so depressing.

Essence tells Jason that something called the Untitled has attacked something called the All Caste, and Jason makes a surprised Pikachu face.

Elsewhere, a guy in a basement looks at a picture of Kori online.

I will admit to liking two things about this page: the fact that Jason's helmet is in the nightstand implies that Roy and Kori fucked in Jason's bed, which is either hilariously rude or an invitation that sailed right over Jason's head, and the red hand print on Roy's chest. It's the first glimpse of a recognizable Roy in this book; he did always like getting manhandled by scarily powerful women, pre-Flashpoint.

Jason goes...somewhere, to a temple of sorts with a lot of vague cultural appropriation going on, and kneels over the corpse of an old lady. "I'm sorry I wasn't here for you, Ducra," he says, before a bunch of people attack him. END OF ISSUE!

And that's Red Hood and the Outlaws #1! It's confusing, misogynistic, lazily drawn, and not very funny, and there's no reason to be invested in whatever the fuck happened at the end because I know nothing about Ducra, Essence, the All Caste, or frankly, this version of Jason. And yet I am absolutely going to read nine more years' worth of this shit. See you in issue #2!

[boosstergold]

Didn't get a reply back on this but I'm going to post a few (DC) recs anyway? These are mostly places I think are good to start. (Disclaimer that these are influenced by personal taste).

Easy mode: Short contained run, probably less than 30 issues (can be more), very unlikely to have any crossovers, does not require much (if any) further knowledge of characters.

Medium mode: Approx 40-75 issues, will have some crossovers but you won't need to read them if you don't want to, may require a little wiki-ing about some characters/events but only if you're curious.

Hard(er) mode: We're reaching 100+ issue territory, many crossovers (some which can be ignored, some which may be confusing if ignored but you can wiki those if you don't want to read them). Believe me it is fairly easy to ignore a missing crossover/event issue and barrel on back to the main story in most cases.

Green Lanterns

Easy: Far Sector, Green Lantern: Legacy - both self-contained, introduce new characters.

Medium: Green Lantern Corps vol 2(2006-2011) - a few crossovers events here, (don't feel you have to read every blackest night crossover lmao just read what you want even if that is just this comic alone), Green Lanterns (2016-2018) (Jessica Cruz and Simon Baz).

Hard(er): Green Lantern vol 3 (1990-2006) (Kyle Rayner's run) #48 onwards, long run, not all of it is amazing quality but it is more good than not. Significant number of crossovers because this spans 12 years.

Superman

Easy: The Man of Steel (1986) six issue mini reintroducing Superman post-crisis, Superman Red & Blue (2021), Superman Smashes the klan (2019-2020), Batman/Superman: World's Finest (2022-ongoing)

Hard(er): Superman (1987-2006) + The Adventures of Superman (1987-2006) + Action Comics (1938-2011 starting at #597) These 3 titles run concurrently and the story sometimes moves from one to the next meaning you will miss something if you're not reading all three. (I am currently reading these and am only in the first quarter so cannot say anything about quality of later issues).

More under read more

Blue Beetle

Easy: Blue Beetle vol 2 (1986-1988)(Ted Kord), Blue Beetle vol 3 (2006-2011)(Jaime Reyes)

Hard(er): Justice League International/America (it renames at issue #26) (1987-1998) Team book (obviously) and a long run where quality is not always consistent but is fun overall and essential for Ted's character.

Booster Gold

Easy: Booster Gold vol 1 (1986)

Hard-(er): Justice League International/America (see above)

Misc.

Easy: Young Justice (1998-2003) (if you like Tim, Kon, Bart, Cassie etc an essential read)

Medium: Wonder Woman vol 5 (2016-2023) #1-#54 a good re-introduction of Diana post n52 (side note that I've heard Wonder Woman vol 2 (1987-2006) is good but I have not read it yet).

[ultrakeencollectionbreadfan]

Chronological List of Superman Elseworlds (1993-2011)

Superman: Speeding Bullets (1993)

Action Comics Annual #6 (1994)

Adventures of Superman Annual #6 (1994)

Superman Annual #6 (1994)

Superman: The Man of Steel Annual #3 (1994)

Steel Annual #1 (1994)

Superboy Annual #1 (1994)

Superman: At Earth's End (1995)

Superman: Kal (1995)

Superman & Batman: Doom Link (1995)

Action Comics Annual #8 (1996)

Adventures of Superman Annual #8 (1996)

Superman Annual #8 (1996)

Superman: The Man of Steel Annual #5 (1996)

Superboy Annual #3 (1996)

Supergirl Annual #1 (1996)

Superman's Metropolis (1997)

Superman/Wonder Woman: Whom Gods Destroy (1997)

Elseworld's Finest (1997)

Superman: A Nation Divided (1998)

Superman: The Dark Side (1998)

Superman: Distant Fires (1998)

Superman: War of the Worlds (1998)

Elseworld's Finest: Supergirl & Batgirl (1998)

Superman & Batman: Generations (1998–1999)

Son of Superman (1999)

Superman, Inc. (1999)

The Superman Monster (1999)

Superman: Last Son of Earth (2000)

Superman and Batman: World's Funnest (2000)

Realworlds: Superman (2000)

Superboy's Legion (2001)

Supergirl: Wings (2001)

Superman & Batman: Generations II (2001)

Superman: Red Son (2003)

Superman: Last Stand on Krypton (2003)

Superman & Batman: Generations III (2003)

Superman: True Brit (2004)

Superman: Secret Identity (2004)

DC Infinite Holiday Special (2006)

Superman: The Last Family of Krypton (2010)

[zahri-melitor]

The current progress of my Post-Crisis 'to read' list. It just sort of keeps getting longer and I tag more stuff onto it.

Batman and ‘Tec readthrough 1990-2011 for the stretches I skipped due to lack of Batfam content

The Batman Chronicles, issues I haven’t read yet.

Batman: Shadows of the Bat issues I skipped due to lack of involvement in events

Pull the full 90s Showcase list and work out which issues still contain characters I care about and haven’t got to yet

Gotham Central

Finish Manhunter vol 3

Superboy

Impulse

Huntress 1989

Titans 1998

Teen Titans 2003

Outsiders 2003

Crisis on Infinite Earths (as I’m a maniac)

Infinite Crisis

Look at Countdown & 52

Vic Sage Question serieses

Richard Dragon serieses

Renee Montoya Question

Batwoman

Go poke at Black Canary vol 2 again to see if I bounce off it hard once more

Connor Hawke Green Arrow read

The Wonder Girl miniseries

Work out how to approach Wonder Woman

Find someone with an actual opinion on Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight to discover if there are any arcs in this worth reading or if my general impression to avoid it outside of specific recommendations/crossovers has been correct (I’ve read…crossovers. And LOTDK #100 for the Haly’s Circus retelling)

Babs Suicide Squad read!

Contemplate sticking my head into the headache that is reading JL/JLA (and then exit extremely fast, if I know me)

JLA: Tower of Babel (at a minimum while I read JL content)

A BUNCH of loosely connected Bat miniseries that I haven’t read

I should actually read Quiver, it’s on my shelf

Jaime Reyes read that covers his post 2011 appearances

Superman/Batman? Superman/Batman

Look, probably more Arrow content. Maybe some Flash content. Try to approach this sensibly by recommended writer runs rather than ‘I’m going in and going straight through!’

Continue with Wonder Woman (about to start John Byrne)

Do I go read some more of Azrael failson? I mean JPV is amusing in VERY small doses

Catwoman read, vols 1, 2 & 3

You still can’t make me read NTT

Actually get around to reading The Long Halloween/Dark Victory/When In Rome

More Ted Kord Blue Beetle, work out where I need to look

Checkmate 1988

Checkmate 2006

Martian Manhunter the Ostrander run

Hawk and Dove? Maybe?

Manhunter 1988