#Stan's Soapbox

[browsethestacks]

Marvel Age (1986)

[captainpirateface]

Stan Lee got it.

It's revolting OVER HALF the country to this very day does not.

We need more Stans in the world.

[eliah]

[cap10wilson]

just rewatched tfatws and.. damn this show is really slept on i feel like. i mean they did a pretty good job of making critiques of the us military, the government’s use of the term ‘terrorist’, the fact that a black man being captain america holds a lot more weight than a white man doing so (but also constantly proving that sam is absolutely worthy of holding the title), and it gives both sam and bucky plenty of screen time both together and separately. also karli was a really convincing antagonist because the only times i found myself disagreeing with her was when she chose to sacrifice lives for her cause, but the cause itself was understandable. like idk i think they cooked up a very solid show but it really didn’t get the recognition it deserved, probably because people were expecting a buddy cop comedy or something

[stupidlittlespirit]

Cutie patootie again 🥺🥺

Lmao I'm sorry I'm always bringing Ford discourse but like !!!!! You're one of the only people online who like sees the bad in every character!! So many fans have been saying how Stanley has never done wrong and fuck Ford but like it's only cause Stanley is a guy who shows very obviously he loves his family and we got 2 whole seasons with the guy

This is probably why I really am hoping Alex gets the go ahead with a sequel! Stan and Ford show to flesh out their relationship more. Like I know Stanford really shows his feelings in the journal but I swear most of people's literacy is fucking dead 😭😭😭 showing will probably be a lot better than telling

I guess I feel really bad for Ford cause he's a victim who isn't uwu I am traumatized. Like there's NOTHING wrong with traumatized people being very teary eyed and soft spoken individuals. Fuck it honestly that's me to a fucking t. But other victims are rude and they do get angry easily. Ford reminds me a lot of Steven from the Haunting of Hill House. They just express their grief and trauma in a much more anger and sarcastic emotional response than others. And like it pretty much confirms in the Book of Bill that Stanford was gonna keep the book a secret also!! He says at first it's to protect his family but later admits it's because he still feels shame in having Bill trick him. In believing all of his lies. He still feels shame for almost causing the apocalypse and letting his pride separate from his brother for 40 years at this point!! Idk idk I'm rambling again but I honestly really love characters like Ford that show that victims don't always act the same but they deserve just as much respect and love all the same. They deserve a second chance and they deserve to be happy. 💜

No it's okay anon! I love having these conversations! I'm sorry it took me so long to answer, I've been really busy.

I have no idea if any of this makes sense but I hope it does because it's taken me like 2 and a half hours to write....

TL;DR - In my opinion, the entire show is about cycles of abuse. Ford and Stan are both imperfect victims for different reasons. They suffered abuse differently. Don't look at and judge them from the place that they start at: Do it from where they end up.

TW: Abuse, suicide, discussion of personal irl abuse.

All below the cut:

You're right about us having more information to work with with Stan v. Ford, but I also think people have a tendency to put Stan on a pedestal because he is, ultimately, the more relatable twin. Not many people are on Ford's wavelength in the sense of intelligence (I'm certainly not) and I would venture to say not many people fell through a portal and spent 30 thirty years in different dimensions running from/trying to defeat their arch enemy....

Alongside that, the twins experienced abuse and reacted to it very differently, and it can be hard to examine those differences fairly, and to see why both types are as bad as the other, especially because one is more obvious and likeable than the other.

They remind me a LOT of my familial situation in interchangeable ways.

My life ran parallel to Stan's for a long time (ironically enough Gravity Falls came out when I'd just been kicked out of home) and I had a sibling who was the 'golden child' for my family. I was the screw up black sheep and they were the one with potential.

That designation is neither mine nor my sibling's fault. It's the fault of my family for putting those labels on two kids who really had no chance, right from the day we were born, but who were forced to adopt them regardless. I think Stan and Ford are the same.

Where I suffered more direct abuse (physical, psychological etc) because I was reactive and was left in the firing line as the scapegoat (Stan), my sibling was held close by my parents and 'protected' because they were seen as well behaved and offered my parents what they wanted: Someone to control and push for success (Ford). They were still abusing my sibling, just in a different way.

I spiralled and went on to live a life where I was only ever in danger and at risk. I made my peace very early on in life (I think maybe before I was about 10?) that the people who were supposed to love me unconditionally, couldn't stand me, valued me as lesser than my sibling, and didn't want me. But I wanted to Be Somebody and prove my value and worth to everyone else to make up for that, which meant I fell into the wrong hands and did all I could to try and be that ideal for others in the hopes they wouldn't see me as my parents did.

I separated from my family early and went off alone, despite really always being alone, and was 'okay' with that (spoiler, I was not!). I also suffered abuse in the way Ford did and my sibling in the way Stan did to varying degrees too. We're all rarely aligned with one specific character because abuse is, unfortunately, incredible versatile.

My sibling, however, stayed with my mother (our whole family abused us, but I'll stick with parents now because it's most relevant. Our parents divorced when we were young and my dad was our 'primary abuser', but only because he was more blatant with it) and my sibling went to an excellent school because my family saw their potential and submissiveness as an opportunity. A meal ticket.

Their career and life was facilitated because I suppose my family also wanted them to 'make up for me' and get the kid they'd always wanted out of my sibling, which is a lot of pressure to put on a child. They went on to be successful (still are, I'm very proud of them) whereas I couldn't/can't keep a stable job and turned to sex work to survive (there is nothing wrong with sex work blah blah but being forced into it at a young age does have negative consequences, no matter what anyone says).

My sibling was emotionally and psychologically manipulated but also treated in a way that could be misconstrued as being loved. I would think that for them, that was hard to understand that that wasn't truly the case. I think Ford was the same in that respect, especially when he craves acceptance so much.

Those are both types of abuse but in different ways. My sibling lives with the guilt and shame of being 'the one who didn't get it as bad', and can't quite accept that they were never really loved (which is embarrassing to admit and I think/hope they will come to terms with that one for their own sake), and I live with the childish resentment of them being 'the one my parents never wanted' and with the absolute hatred of how unfairly I was treated by people who were supposed to love me unconditionally.

You can see where this is going, right?

Stan and Ford suffered equally in that same way, all throughout their lives in varying ways, and in my other response to you we talked more in depth about how Ford specifically was manipulated his entire life. I think Ford was made to be responsible at a young age and forced to carry this weight on his shoulders, and then as an adult had that insecurity worsened and coaxed by Bill.

Stan deep down knew his father hated him, and despite still wanting his love, eventually knew he wasn't going to get it. I mean, no one even came to his fake funeral for god's sake. Image how that must feel?

Stan grew to spot the signs of abuse and avoid it to the best of his ability. He was still vulnerable of course, but he was more street smart and clued up after a while. He didn't fall for Bill's flattery because he looked at Bill and saw his father. He recognised abuse.

Me and my sibling are the same.

Now, because of the differences in our abuse, my sibling and I turned out to be very different people. They still interact with my family (although they don't enjoy it but do so out of a sense of guilt and duty, and that they have to take care of them). I have nothing to do with any of them because fuck 'em.

I'm very emotional and can be unstable or rude (I have BPD), but love deeply and am sometimes overtly considerate of other people's feelings to my detriment because no cared about mine. I struggle with needing to be loved and being a chameleon who adapts their personality to those around them in order to be most liked and maximise that. I don't have a real identity, just the one I craft in the moment. I even worked/work in sales because having that ability makes it easy to pick up on people's emotional state and manipulate it, for better or worse. I have also done bad things and been cruel to others, I've also had an inflated ego and sometimes still do. I'm the Stan, for the most part, but I've experienced Bill-like abuse too and been the Ford.

My sibling can be spiteful and often acts like the things that happened me didn't actually happen the way I think they did and they minimise my feelings. They struggle to apologise and also behave in a way that is similar to my abusers, but I don't believe they do that maliciously. I think they don't know any better and haven't had the space to mature and come to terms with that. They have a bit of an ego, too. They're the Ford, mostly.

(This isn't to say I'm none of those things, because I can be and my sibling can be all the things I am at times)

I have to remember that they're still in contact with our abusers and were heavily manipulated against me growing up. They still get the Wormtongue treatment, as we said about Ford. They're still affected. They are also the only person I still see because we're in this together and they genuinely love me (as I do them). They're funny and cool and they love as deeply as I do.

My sibling and I, and Stan and Ford, were both raised in the same barn and we're from the same stock; of course we have the traits of our parents. It would be impossible not to. My sibling and I just learn to smother those parts as best we can as we mature and the process of doing so never really ends. I would say I'm a little better at it than my sibling is, but I'm also older and realised my abuse far sooner than they did. I've had longer to come to terms with it, like Stan did.

Stan was aware of his father's abuse much earlier and although I think he struggled to accept it, he eventually realised much sooner than his brother that he was being abused.

Ford wasn't able to mature because he was so busy working and then surviving. He eventually was forced to come to terms with his abuse by both Bill and by others, and it must have sucked to have that realisation so late in life. I have another family member that that exact thing happened to, and the shame we all feel at being taken advantage like that is immense. That's why post-portal Ford is so different in my mind. It breaks or makes you and it is very embarrassing to accept.

But both of them exacted their resentment and sadness and insecurities out on others: Stan literally scammed people out of their money because he wanted to be rich and committed other crimes That's a really bad thing to do!

Yes, Ford was manipulative and tough on others because he'd been taught to be, and I think he truly believed in his youth that he "turned out fine!" (a favourite one-liner of mine from people who are in denial about their abuse) because he couldn't accept it.

It was wrong of both of them to do the things they did, and there is no excuse for it, but we can understand where that behaviour came from if we examine them both fairly.

What matters is that eventually both Stan and Ford matured into people who recognised why they were in the wrong. They stopped that cycle of abuse by finding love and forgiving one another, and by finding their their family.

Stan and Ford were able to redeem themselves. They both have a plethora of faults but an absolute encyclopedia of positives, too. It just took them a long time to unlearn and they have to continue to unlearn those until they die.

All victims are imperfect victims because there's no such thing as a perfect one. Victims carry shame, victims can be aggressive, victims can repeat the mistakes of their abusers no matter how much they think they don't. Maybe they don't respond to their trauma 'the way that they should' (which is bullshit, by the way. There is no right or wrong way to be a victim).

When I suffered (a different, non family related) major trauma, I wasn't believed (by that same friend I talked about in the other ask) because I hadn't, in their opinion, reacted in the way I supposed to react. I wasn't sad enough or traumatised enough, when in actual fact I was all of those things but was too ashamed and afraid to show it to others until it got so bad that I couldn't hold it in anymore. I protected myself through jokes and being blasé about it.

Ford is a great example of a more obvious imperfect victim. He is a product of his environment and he protects his vulnerabilities with egoism. The most egotistical of us are the most insecure.

Stan is also an imperfect victim, just more obviously so. He was portrayed from the start as likeable and funny, but he is the same as his brother.

Initially Stan was as cantankerous and mean as he was silly, remember. But he changed over time. We get to see the toll his abuse took on him because he learned to come to terms with that shame and told the audience about it through his actions and behaviours. We actually saw his backstory in detail and saw how he learned to love the kids. We saw his vulnerability whereas Ford refuses to and struggles to lower that guard and show his soft spots.

Ford is portrayed in a very specific light that I think does him an injustice at times and contributes to the misunderstanding of his personality.

Ford's vulnerability is hard for him to reveal (to those around him and the audience) because he couldn't afford to be vulnerable during his time in the portal or with Bill. Vulnerability kills when you're not showing it to the right people and when he did show his vulnerable side to Bill (he didn't have the answers he thought he was so capable of having and had to swallow that bitter pill and ask for help), he was betrayed and hurt really awfully.

Ford then went on the exact same journey Stan did when Stan was kicked out of home, except Ford was 30 plus and in an interdimensional nightmare instead of the USA. They both suffered. (And also, the US might as well have been a different dimension for Stan at his young age because it was just a foreign to him as space was to Ford. Earth is cruel no matter where you are).

Anyway.... All of that is to say, nobody comes out of abuse clean.

Some of us become unlikeable and unfriendly, and sometimes even abusive ourselves. A lot of us learn to survive in any way we can and sometimes that is at the detriment of others.

But what really matters is how we unlearn those behaviours and how we grow.

Don't look at and judge Ford or Stan from the place that they start: Do it from where they end up.

I'd also like to add that just because you might be a dick, it doesn't mean you deserve to be abused and I see a lot of people say that Ford deserved what he got, and that pisses me off so fucking badly.

Again: disclaimer these are just my own feelings do not come for me thank u

[also-fours]

something i dont get is why some people feel so obligated to stay hyperfixated on something that's taking a while to come out, to the point where they feel the need to shout to the hills that they dont care about it anymore and dont wanna make fan content for it anymore like it's such a hot take and they're so brave for losing interest in doing the same thing for years on end

girl.

no one's telling you that you HAD to try and focus on it for that long

there are OTHER things that are out there, part of the reason why devs like toby fox and team cherry are perfectly fine keeping people waiting for so long is BECAUSE theres plenty of fish in the sea, you dont NEED to focus on them forever

they dont need to give you communication on shit if they dont want to and they're not ready to because you havent been spending your money on the games themselves, have you?

and the merch you HAVE been spending your money on is a separate thing

toby's given you development newsletter updates, team cherry's said they're working on the game, that's all you need to know

these are PEOPLE and they are not obligated to feed your hyperfixation when you want them to

go play in stars and time, go play blue fire

or like. get into something completely different than deltarune or hollow knight

try something new

that being said, this IS the autism website

so for all i know your brains are telling you that you HAVE to be deltarune and hollow knight girlies and make fan content of em for the rest of your days until these new games come out

so, it's probably easier for me, i have autism differently than you guys do

that being said...just try not to be a jerk about it, okay?

making games is hard. don't make it harder for them.

[datamodel-of-disaster]

Queer identity is not just an aesthetic.

It doesn't exist separate from the lived reality of people's bodies, nor from the lived experience of sexual desire and contact.

Top surgery scars are healed wounds, not pretty tattoos. I'm all for romanticizing the transformation in art, draw them however you like, but then don't turn around and call people gross for talking about the realities of their own surgery recovery, including botched procedures, pain, or ugly scarring.

Queer sexuality is a lived experience of sexual attraction (or, yes, the lack thereof), not just brightly colored flags and thematic lighting. Like, sure, have fun with it, but... maybe don't go around plastering LGBTQ flags over all your fave characters and then start yelling about perverts when people talk about shipping them or write/draw smut featuring them.

Representation that only allows for aesthetic is not representation, it is censorship.

Sex is not gross. Bodies are not gross. Go outside. Touch grass.

If you draw and write and headcanon and cheerily meme about queer characters and then climb on your soapbox against any representation that is more physical than a flag and some sanitized suggestion, you are a hypocrite.

And no, I don't care about how sex-repulsed or triggered by body stuff you may personally be. No one is obliging you to consume content you don't like. But if you cannot accept that to be queer in the world is an intrinsically physical and sexual experience for many, and that representing that is not bad just because you don't like it, you don't get to play here.

[evilhorse]

Marvel Bullpen Bulletins (circa December 1993)

[sunriseverse]

complaint time? complaint time! let's talk about my annoyance relating to sapphic, especially lesbian, characters, relationships, and mxtx! because apparently, i love kicking hornet's nests these days (this isn't new, i just usually confine it to dms). this got long, my apologies, so it's going below the cut.

first off, i'd like to clarify that i am not talking about fanfic that makes mxtx characters sapphic/lesbians. i think that's great. i love rule 63. if you want to write these men in an au where they are sapphic, i have been there and support you wholly. this isn't what that's about, though—this is specifically about mxtx.

i've seen the same sentiment over and over trying to go through the chinese gl tag (baihe): people wishing mxtx would write about sapphic characters, wishing that mxtx would write sapphic novels, etc. and honestly, this pisses me off for a few reasons: my thoughts on how mxtx handles lgbt characters generally, the way that these posts clog the tag, and, finally, the way people going "wish mxtx wrote sapphic novels :( too bad she didn't, i guess there's no sapphic cnovels!" cheapens the extant, vibrant baihe field.

one: my thoughts on how mxtx handles lgbt characters

first of all, i'd like to preface this by saying this is only going off of what i know about mxtx, and mxtx works. as far as i'm aware, mxtx is a straight woman, writing about same-sex male relationships. she's the author of svsss, mdzs, and tgcf. i don't know if she's written anything else, but for this post, that doesn't really matter. let's go over these, shall we? mdzs' main couple has a rape kink, svsss' main couple is a teacher-student relationship, and tgcf's main couple is a man who saved a young child who later grew up to worship him. this isn't a judgement—i am a tgcf fan, so i'll be upfront about that; i think the way that specific scenario is handled in canon makes sense, and isn't objectionable to me specifically because of the way it's handled. i haven't finished svsss, and i haven't read mdzs, so i can't make commentaries there. i simply say this to point out the fact that, generally, mxtx couples play into a number of uncomfortable stereotypes about gay men, especially that their sex lives must be particularly "freakish", or that they must be older men pursuing younger men, especially those who idolise them. whether or not this is the message intended in these works, and whatever the characters themselves may think about these situations, they are not their own, real people; they are characters created specifically to be the way they are, by an author who is not a gay man. you can probably see why i, as a lesbian, do not want her writing lesbian characters specifically, and sapphic characters generally.

point two: posts like these clog the tags

any time i scroll the baihe tag, i inevitably run into at least one post where people wish that mxtx would write sapphic characters. while i understand wanting your favourite author to write about characters you feel better represented by, the truth of the matter is that when people make these often-one line posts that aren't actually related to baihe content in any way, and then tag them as #baihe, this leads to the clogging of a tag meant to be specifically filled with content about and surrounding baihe works.

point three: these posts draw attention away from extant baihe (chinese sapphic) works

as surprising as it may be, sapphic cnovels exist! there's actually a decent number of them, in fact. not many are fully translated, but there's a few big ones that are—and, i would say, the quality of the ones that have been translated are at least as good as extant mxtx fantranslations. baihe suffers from being ignored by the mainstream and official english-language publishing/translation houses, for a number of reasons that would take an entire post to even begin to try and unpick, but it does exist. however, when there's a bunch of people acting like no baihe exists and wishing their favourite danmei author would write baihe so it would exist, it creates the false illusion that baihe doesn't exist, drawing attention away from extant baihe—and thus perpetuating the tendency of those in fandom spaces to only ever talk about and promote male-centric works, and erase or marginalise female-centric works, as well as sapphic fans themselves.

in conclusion: i don't have a solution to this. i'm just frustrated by the tendency to act like mxtx is the paragon of lgbt fiction in cnovel spaces, and the way that, rather than looking for extant sapphic cnovels and characters, people seem far more willing to wish that mxtx would write sapphic novels, something that i, as an individual lesbian, think is a foolish idea, and just a generally annoying sentiment.

[ashleyfableblack]

YES! 💜💙💚💛💗 THIS! This is why I write the stories and draw the art I do- ideals. I LOVE love and I'm always down for gay ponies spreading the happy but we DO think in the media we consume and the art we create. We absorb concepts and normalize them. From subtle moments of kindness to subtext of racism, sexism, bigotry and prejudice. It ALL matters. All ART matters. 💜💙💚💛💗

Thank you, Stan 😁

[kaltstrahls]

love seeing nuns support the lgbtq community. it’s what benedetta carlini would have wanted <3

[dulcewrites]

Hey, just wanted to say thank you for being one of the few writers that writes Aemond centric fics without feeling the need to bash the living daylight out of Aegon. It’s always so frustrating to see most fic writers drag Aegon through the dirt ten times over to make Aemond seem more likable.

no problem!

I do try to walk a very… delicate line with how I write/discuss Aegon. Because though I think it is fair to dissect the disparities between how narratives were set up, at least in s1 (Aegon vs Rhaenyra, team black vs team green, Alicent vs Rhaenyra), I do not want to slip into rape apologia territory. Which unfortunately, and I don’t think people are trying to but impact and intent aren’t the same, I do feel like a lot of people trying to ‘defend’ Aegon or just make sense of the choices the writer/producers made end up doing. It is entirely possible to write/discuss his character true to form without either erasing the bad parts (even before the events of ep 8) or exacerbating them.

Honesty, one of the reasons why it’s hard for me to continue with my Aegon centric work that I never feel like I have a good handle on his character. I try to do the characters justice and I’m annoying about my shit always, and it’s made worse when I can’t characterize someone right. It’s something I’m working on slowly but surely

[conartisthaiji]

yeah for the most part im done looking into new ggs

[transhulklings]

If I ever hear another word from kevin feigie I will become violent. My hater levels are at 9000 rn

[evilhorse]

Cool it, whitey!