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debrisyume · 5 years

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Deltarune Theories

This is super late, I know. I’m only posting this after most people stopped caring about the game but I really wanted those who are interested to know what theories I am going with. I actually like the fact that I did it like this because people have noticed and discussed interesting things months after the game was released.

Warning, I don’t think I bring much of anything new to the table with my theories, but I still want to put my thoughts into context so people know where I stand currently. Also imagine everything has a disclaimer that says “This is what I think but I’m prepared to be wrong when the full game comes out.” After all, we don’t know how much of the story we’ve been shown, it could be less than a third for all we know. And I think there’s a lot of lore we aren’t aware of right now.

It might sound kinda fanfiction-y at some points (not that fanfic is bad, but fanfiction doesn’t rely on evidence, I probably discuss a lot of headcanons here with little no backup). Also, this is super long (perhaps excessively so). I’ve broken it up into sections for more easy reading, and I have a short list of my most important or favorite theories at the end, but without explaining why I like them or the evidence for it. If you’re confused or don’t like a theory of mine, I recommend reading the part where I talk about it to at least understand my perspective.

Let’s talk about the ending scene first because I have some... thoughts about it.

That Ending

Ok, first of all, I’m 100% completely certain that the red soul Kris took out doesn’t belong to them. They were definitely possessed by it. I used to think it was theirs but then we took control of it and Kris was willing to get rid of their soul to stop being possessed, but that ended up being too convoluted.

Also, a big piece of evidence that pretty much confirms it’s “our” soul is how Gaster literally summons the red soul for the survey. (“ARE WE CONNECTED?”) Presumably it was going to be put into our created vessel, but then Chara dunked it and Gaster had to make do with Kris. (Or maybe it was Chara who put it inside Kris but I strongly suspect it was Gaster, because Chara was cut off when they were saying “Your name is...” This link also provides evidence toward Chara working with Gaster. They consider Frisk/the player their partner, an equal, and see themselves as a servant for Gaster)

Probably the biggest indication towards Kris being possessed by the soul is the whole ball of junk sequence. They don’t want to throw it away, but we force them to do it and they are clearly upset by it. Not to mention how we can still control the red soul inside the cage by moving it around a little. I don’t see how the ending could be anything but Kris trying to take back control of their own body.

Now, I don’t think Kris is evil. I don’t think they want to kill anyone, I can’t think of a reason why they would want to kill anyone so I’m not expecting it. Their LOVE is at 1 and we never heard about them being violent. There is a big gap between somewhat creepy and mean pranks + social awkwardness, and literal murder. They’ve also done things outside of the soul’s control that make them being evil unlikely in my eyes, they protect Susie and they call her their friend. They also clearly care about Asriel and miss him deeply.

Why would they throw away the first friend they made in years and ruin their relationship with Asriel by killing people in their hometown? I believe the knife thing was just a threat towards the soul, to scare it into leaving them alone. All Chara similarities are because they’re like Chara, not being possessed by them.

I believe they used to have a red soul themselves, but it was taken from them or lost somehow (their similarities to Frisk and Chara are way too stark and prominent for me not to think they had a red soul). For probably a long time they were soulless. We see how being soulless affects Flowey, he can’t feel love, compassion, or hope. I think Kris being soulless like this worsened their already terrible depression, and while they were able to get those feelings back through the new red soul, they aren’t willing to be controlled like that, so they got rid of it. Maybe they’re hoping to get their own soul back one day.

Also, I suspect that Kris has been possessed before, which is why I think they haven’t had their own soul for some time already. The rusty cage they used to trap the soul ‘has seen some use before’. There’s also a suspicious stain by that cage. I believe the first few times they had to rip a soul out, their body couldn’t handle it well and... yeah...

I don’t have a clue why Kris moves the way they do before ripping out the soul though. They walk very similar to how Frisk is described to walk in the Genocide Route, “shambling about from place to place.” But that was as a result of the LOVE they gained, right? It doesn’t look like Kris is controlling their own body well either, and the footsteps from the Dark World... maybe prolonged possession really hampers Kris’ own control of their body. They are described as looking sick in Hometown, which implies being possessed made them sick... someone help them already.

Kris’ Weapon

I would like to talk about the knife for a second too. So, their weapon is listed as “pencil” and not knife. I don’t know about you, but a pencil sounds like a pretty shitty weapon, especially if I already have a knife with me. But, what if Kris didn’t always have that knife with them? I know this will sound kinda crazy, but I think they summoned it with magic (Chara/Frisk/Kris has a strong resemblance to one of humanity’s seven greatest magicians, the poncho human, so this doesn’t come across as that unlikely to me. I think Poncho Human is one of those magicians because they’re always seen as toward the front/leading the humans, including when the barrier was being made, although I will admit this isn’t really confirmation).

We already seen this happen in Undertale. No matter what weapon you have equipped in the Omega Flowey fight, the knife animation will always play when you attack him, even if the knife isn’t in your inventory. This happens in other instances too like when Chara kills Sans, Asgore, and Flowey for you. Kris does look like they reached into their pocket for the knife, but I still believe it wasn’t there initially, otherwise the knife would be their “weapon.”

Is the Red Soul really supposed to be us?

Back to the soul, I don’t think the soul belongs to the player specifically. While I think it’s a valid theory, it kinda makes me uncomfortable, similar to the player theory in Undertale which I used to believe in. It’s not just that though, I believe the red soul has a good chance of belonging to Frisk.

Think about it, the red soul knows things Kris shouldn’t know about, they recognize Sans (and Sans probably recognizes the soul but is pretending not to know anything about what’s going on), they ask Undyne about Alphys, who’s supposed to be her girlfriend in the universe they came from. They also explicitly can’t play piano, unlike Kris, which excludes many players. Kris’ Dark World outfit matches Frisk’s usual clothes very well, and then there’s the flirting thing.

The vessel we made at the beginning has two stripes on their shirt, and their soul is red... like... a certain someone... we’re familiar with... it can’t be Chara, because Chara is the one who got rid of our vessel. And what was Chara doing before they got cut off? Telling Frisk a phrase similar to ones they heard before (Despite everything, it’s still you. Try as you might, you continue to be yourself. No one can choose who they are in this world.) and trying to remind Frisk of what their true name is (“Your name is...” a direct parallel to the flashback when Asriel introduces himself to Chara, but the flashback ended before he could, so we only heard “My name is...”) because apparently Frisk forgot who they were.

Anyone else find the survey questions weird? Besides how the speaker clearly isn’t too familiar with humans, none of them particularly identify a personality, they’re all about favorites or physical things. Gaster summoned Frisk’s soul for a specific purpose, but apparently they don’t need to be completely “themselves” to fulfill that purpose?

Also, if the red soul is supposed to be the player, not only is the bad piano playing oddly exclusive, but so is the color. We know from UT that each soul color had a virtue to go along with it, yet ours is always red, like Frisk and Chara’s. You could just wave it away as being red because it was our previous player character’s, but I still think it’s weird because Toby could have let us choose our own soul color or made a small quiz that picked our virtue for us. I still think red has its own virtue, despite us not knowing it. It can’t be determination, because DT is some sort of magical substance that exists in all humans (it’s also too similar to perseverance to be a separate trait). I have my own ideas, but maybe we’ll find it out in this game? Either way, there’s no reason it has to be red in particular, if it’s meant to represent the player, unless we’re actually playing as a character with a red soul.

Now that I’ve established that I think the red soul is Frisk, I need to explain what kind of Frisk. I think this Frisk is older, closer to Kris’ age than how old they were in Undertale. It must be after a pacifist run, because that’s the only run where Alphys and Undyne get together, although I haven’t decided yet if it’s regular pacifist or soulless pacifist. The way Chara talks reminds me more of their Genocide run self, not to mention the callback to the soulless pacifist ending in DR.

The thing about determination in Deltarune’s universe is that I think it still exists, otherwise we wouldn’t be able to save and reload at all, but that it hasn’t been named or even have much research to it at all. After all, the one who discovered it was Alphys, after Chara and Asriel were long dead. And Alphys in this universe isn’t a scientist. Kris also seems to be aware they can save, but their save file is weirdly empty...

The Dark World isn’t Real, kinda (but neither is Hometown, kinda)

Now, pretty much everyone has considered the idea that the Dark World is not actually real. The food isn’t filling, after completing a playthrough you can skip going to school and just go back to sleep to come to the Dark World, the areas and characters each have a counterpart in the unused classroom (except for Ralsei, hmm). Kris’ pencil also turns into a sword, we can tell because if they get the spooky sword, they come back with a Halloween pencil.

I don’t think it’s as simple as the Dark World being fake though. The idea of Kris and Susie having some sort of shared dream experience is weird, and all the roleplaying theories make no sense to me (why would Susie participate when she only starts caring about Kris toward the end of their journey?). All the characters not being real just makes me sad, and the adventure feels hollow of if it was just imagination.

I believe the Dark World is a pocket dimension of some sorts, influenced by what goes on in Hometown (Seam being old is because ‘stuffed animal Seam’ is worn out after some years). It might be pretty dependent on Hometown to exist, but all the characters are perfectly sentient and have their own agency. Think... idk what goes on in Toy Story or Spirited Away?

However, I also believe Hometown is fake in some way, or at the very least, there’s some shady magic stuff going on. While on the surface it seems like a perfectly normal town where monsters are happily living above ground, seemingly never been trapped by humans in the first place, most of the characters we know are unhappy in some way. Bratty and Catty hate each other, Alphys and Undyne don’t know each other, Mettaton isn’t confident and seems pretty depressed, being a teacher is literally the worst job Alphys could have, etc.

There’s also things that feel super off. The way Toriel acts as a parent to Kris feels like a downgrade from Undertale, Asgore is living in poverty and no one is really helping him (almost makes me wonder if he was never a king in this universe?). Why don’t Alphys and Undyne don’t know each other, anyway? The town is pretty damn small and they both hold job positions that would make them well known, especially given how it seems like only Toriel and apparently Blooky is the other teacher/officer respectively.

Why is there a stain in Kris’ room that Toriel doesn’t seem to care about, even just to clean? Why is she overprotective to the point of punishing Asriel for being kissed by a girl? Why is Asriel the only character living his best life? He’s alive, he’s popular, his family is proud of him, while is Kris is seen as a creepy loner.

The lights in the school not reflecting the correct way, assuming that was deliberate (considering its similarities to the judgement hall, which is weird on its own, I’m betting it is). The way Toriel’s doorknobs on multiple doors work should be impossible. That fucking bunker?? Why is it there?? Why is Gaster’s music playing there?? IM SO UNSETTLED

Anyway, my point is I have to wonder if Hometown is fabricated in some way. I like to think of it as a world someone created that isn’t completely finished, or something went wrong in the process. This post talks about a great idea about how the Deltarune universe is meant to be an “ideal AU” for Asriel and Chara (Asriel creating the Dark World while Hometown was done by Chara) and I’ve been really into it since I first read it. It just makes a lot of sense to me. I believe it was done with the help of Gaster, who has his own agenda going on, which is why things aren’t perfect.

What’s up with Kris?

Now, about Kris’ identity. It’s hard for me to believe they’re completely separate from either Frisk or Chara because of the similarities they all share. Kris’s skin and hair colors match Frisk’s perfectly, but their personality seems to match Chara more. They’re quiet (we never hear Chara’s voice in the videotapes), the demon horns headband are very much Chara’s style, they like being creepy, while Chara’s hair doesn’t cover their eyes when see them at the end of the Genocide run, we never actually see their eyes in the flashbacks, they’re also both very close to Asriel.

I also think it’s important to mention that Deltarune takes place in 202X, while Chara fell in 201X, and Frisk fell much, much later. I’ve seen people liken Kris to a “Chara self-insert” and it makes a lot of sense to me in the context of Deltarune being a created AU. I’m more in the “Kris is an AU Chara” boat than “fusion who’s taking the place of both” or “AU Frisk”, because personality sticks out more to me than physical stuff. But the “self-insert” idea could explain away the name and appearance differences. Chara could see Frisk as a better version of themselves, taken stuff like Asriel saying Frisk “is the friend he wished he always had” to heart, and unconsciously mold this AU version of them to resemble Frisk more.

Essentially Kris is Chara’s OC in the same way Ralsei and the Absolute God of Hyperdeath are to Asriel. Not to mention since I think Frisk is the red soul, the idea of them possessing an AU version of themselves is a bit... odd, but if it’s an AU Chara than it’s almost a reverse of the situation they two had in the Undertale (although I don’t think Chara took control outside of certain instances). Which is a fun idea to me! Like Underswap but angsty teen edition, haha.

Tbh, the idea of Kris being an “AU Chara” is more just my personal preference, as it goes well with a lot of headcanons for Chara (I had one that they played the piano before Deltarune came out, for instance), however, I can admit that some sort of fusion between Frisk and Chara (heck, their name is even a combination of the two, ‘Chris’! It’s probably spelled as Kris because that’s more gender-neutral, I bet) seems more likely at this point, no matter how weird I personally find it.

By the way, I strongly feel that Kris would have a different outfit in the Dark World if they had their own soul instead of Frisk’s soul inside of them. I can see theirs following a similar knight theme, but it wouldn’t have a blue and pink color palette.

Also, I have to wonder if maybe Kris was Chara’s old name back in Undertale? It’s not a stretch to imagine that they chose their name before meeting Asriel the same way we chose Chara’s name in the beginning of Undertale. But, if it’s a case of Kris being Chara’s old name, I think it’s just that they haven’t figured out their ‘true name’ yet because they never heard of ‘Chara’ before, rather than everyone disrespecting their wishes. Frankly, the idea of everyone misgendering/deadnaming Kris intentionally makes me uncomfortable and also comes across as pretty OOC for the monsters.

To pacify or not pacify?

I said before that I’m uncertain as to whether Deltarune is a sequel to post-pacifist Undertale or post-soullless pacifist, but I think if it was the soulless version, it would give us a good explanation for how Gaster acquired Frisk’s soul (Toby could easily explain it away as void fuckery powers but whatever). Chara could have been to the one to give it to him, because they are technically in possession of Frisk’s soul.

I still consider the soul to be Frisk’s even if they gave it to Chara. We already know from the Omega Flowey and Asriel fights that even when someone else is using the soul, the person will still exist in some way. Even if Chara owns the soul now, it’s still made from Frisk’s essence. Also, Chara and Gaster seem to be working together, I think Chara gave the soul to him and that’s how the survey got started. And since it’s not in Chara’s body anymore/Chara could have just given up ownership of it, Frisk is the only one in control of it now.

Frisk isn’t evil they just lack empathy and occasionally go into a dissociative state where they commit atrocities

(The title is supposed to be a meme reference don’t take it too seriously, although I always liked the headcanon that Frisk struggles with empathy more than people think). You guys might be thinking I’m being too harsh on Frisk. They’re possessing Kris, they probably did a Genocide run, etc. Well, I don’t think any worse of Frisk than I do for Flowey. They (along with Chara) are just traumatized kids in messed up circumstances with way too much power in their hands. Frisk also never consented to being put into Kris. I don’t think they have any idea what the fuck is going on.

You can answer ‘no’ to multiple questions in the survey and it continues on as if you answered yes, they probably thought the whole thing was weird and kinda shady, but they literally had no choice but to go through with it. They were also under the impression that their vessel would be the new artificial human they’re creating, not someone who already has a life. I’m also not sure if they have a good way to communicate with Kris and hear their thoughts on everything. Frisk might be able to talk to Kris through narration, but not hear what they want to say in return, only some of their feelings. Or they’re not able to talk to each other at all, which just makes the situation harder on both of them.

Frisk can do many things that unintentionally hurt Kris, like hugging Ralsei when Kris doesn’t like hugs, but that seems to be a case of ignorance. As far as I know, there’s only one thing Frisk can do that’s deliberately bullying them, which is breaking the ball of junk (it’s also crappy if they named it that way when Kris clearly likes it). That is pretty shitty of them, but it’s not too far off from the jerk things you can do in Undertale, liking eating the snowman piece in front of the Snowman or letting Monster Kid fall to their possible death, as far as Frisk knew (all on a pacifist run too!).

Frisk still needs to apologize to them, but I think the two will be able to mend things together eventually. I’m hoping they will because I’ve already thought a lot about their possible friendship after they reconcile lol (This is going to be one of those theories I’m sad about if it’s not true)

I would also like to say that if Frisk has ever met the Gaster followers/Gaster himself (which you can do without hacking in updated versions of Undertale) during a couple of timeline resets then they might feel an obligation to help him, even if they have a bad feeling about it.

Chara and Gaster are playing tug-of-war (and I want the old man to lose because I’m biased)

Back to Chara and Gaster working together, I believe this is almost certainly what’s happening, but they definitely seem to have different goals, or at least different ways of going about it. The way Chara takes over gives me the impression they’re arguing with Frisk caught in the middle. I’m uncertain as to why Chara discarded the vessel, but I doubt they killed the little guy. Maybe possessing a Goner Human would have unpleasant consequences we aren’t aware of.

From what we know of goners, they essentially don’t exist in the same way Gaster doesn’t. Maybe, people would be able to acknowledge us at first, but overtime, similar to Gaster, our existence is forgotten while our accomplishments still exist. I’m expecting them to come back eventually. I like the idea of them being The Knight, although that would require some weird timeline stuff going on, like the period between our vessel being discarded and the red soul being put inside Kris to have taken a much longer time than we thought.

As I mentioned before, I think Gaster was the one to put the soul in Kris, not Chara. My reasoning for this is how Chara gets cut off when telling the soul their name. Gaster could have went with Kris because they’re the best fit (being a human, presumably used to being possessed— notice also how despite clearly not liking being controlled, they still do everything we say) and how they’re already a part of the Legend, apparently, so they were supposed to go the Dark World the whole time.

If Chara was the one who did it, then I think it’s because since Frisk is “their partner”, Chara wants them to work with this AU version of themselves. If Kris is supposed to be Chara, then I can also see Chara just not caring about their comfort or what they want, since Chara always seemed to have a low opinion of themselves, I doubt they’d care much about an AU version.

Otherwise, well, the Chara that gets corrupted by LOVE by the end of the Genocide Route seems to treat everything with apathy unless it has to do with power and irresponsible people getting what they deserve, so they still probably wouldn’t really care much about what Kris wants. Chara could have also thought they were helping by giving them a soul, even if it’s a soul that will control them.

Btw, I doubt Chara has completely bad intentions even if this is the Genocide run version of them, nothing to do with a massacre at least. They’re not even directly interfering with the world besides the vessel thing, Gaster is the one’s in charge of our game over screen (something I think is important and will get back to later!) and we’re the one who chooses to fight people. It’s just that the Darkners run away before we can kill them. Chara has also never been above doing questionable things for the greater good, just look at the buttercup plan.

Suzy/Susie, also that other lizard teen

As far I’m concerned right now, Suzy from Undertale is the same Susie from Deltarune, similar to Chara and Kris’ connection, she’s just younger. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if Suzy is a different character and she’ll appear later in the game. I’m thinking she’s another monster rather than a human, if she isn’t Susie herself. The reason I’m being cautious about whether they’re alternate counterparts is that Catty and Catti are separate characters, despite having very similar names. I wouldn’t be surprised if Suzy and Susie are actually related in Deltarune.

Also, if the soul is a post-pacifist Frisk like I think it is, and Suzy is Susie, then I definitely think Frisk became friends with Suzy after the barrier was broken. I imagine a younger Susie would be more mellow and less of a bully, and Frisk could be a good source of support when she’s dealing with her problems. I think even if they aren’t the same person, it’s likely that Frisk knows Suzy if she’s a monster.

Goner Clamgirl specifically told Frisk they’ll be meeting Suzy soon, so if she isn’t Susie, we’ll definitely see her eventually. And if this is post-soulless pacifist... well, I never thought Chara killed everyone, I thought it was a threat to scare Frisk into behaving or remind them/the player of what they’ve done. Kinda hard to be completely happy with your family and friends while being haunted by the fact that you killed them before.

Monster Kid is kinda screwing with me. Their horns are pointing the opposite side of where they did in Undertale, this is significant because Goner Kid’s horns point the same way as DR Kid. We already know of one goner living a normal life in Deltarune, could DR MK be Goner Kid while UT MK is... uh... MIA, in the Deltarune universe, for the lack of a better term? They act exactly the same though, which is pretty weird. I am still very concerned.

The Narrator is more confusing than Gaster at this point

Now, one of the mysteries that is fucking with me the most is who the narrator is. I don’t think it’s Kris, the use of ‘you’ and other things (Kris got the hot chocolate, you felt a feeling of relief @ the ball of junk not being thrown away is clearly about Kris) doesn’t really fit it being Kris in my head. There’s a lot of similarities with Chara but too many odd things as well... it uses the exact phrasing but with notable differences. The cactus isn’t tsundere, “it’s only you” feels VERY off and kinda mean since Kris isn’t exactly alone anymore... It’s sometimes stiff and brief, similar to the Genocide run narration at times, but it also has its playful moments “It’s good to conserve water” when choosing not to flush the toilet, and the whole “perpetrating the cycle” when talking about the moss.

I like to think it’s a Frisk trying to mimic Chara at times, actually. “He cannot be reasoned with, but don’t give up...!” when checking the Spade King gives me strong Frisk vibes. Also “It's quite small, but some people REALLY like it,” for the choco diamond implies the narrator isn’t a huge fan of chocolate (which Kris and Chara are, the choco diamond heals Kris the most). It’d also make the most sense, if the red soul is Frisk, for Frisk to be the narrator.

However, something that feels off for both Frisk and Chara as narrator candidates is that the narrator seems familiar with Kris. They know Kris can save (“the light only you know”), they know which locker belongs to them and Asriel, they know Kris’ and Asriel’s old Halloween costumes are from 8 years ago specifically... which is... extremely weird? How can Chara or Frisk know these things if they’ve never been to this world before?

Which leads me to my crackpot theory, the narrator is college!Asriel who’s actually dead. THINK ABOUT IT. It’s definitely wrong but whatever. For now my favorite candidate is Frisk but who fucking knows. I’d even accept Gaster at this point, and I hate that theory for Undertale. It’d be too easy if they’re not meant to be character in this game, I think it is supposed to be someone.

ALSO ALSO important fact is that they are definitely narrating to Kris. They refer to Toriel and Asriel as “your mother and brother” and there’s stuff like “You really didn’t want to throw it away.” So the narrator is talking to Kris and not to the soul. I think this is significant.

But yet ANOTHER weird thing about this is “the power of reoccurring bake sales shines within you” line (or whatever, can’t remember the exact phrasing). There’s only one bake sale in Deltarune, but this makes sense in the context of a post-Undertale playthrough, because we experienced more bake sales there. But that means the narrator (Chara I guess, if we’re just going off of this line) is talking to Frisk... which can’t be possible because I already established how they’re clearly talking to Kris, not the soul... (the narrator talking to more to one person or there being two narrators would get way too confusing too fast, like, how are we supposed to figure out who’s who or who exactly they’re talking to if there’s more than one for either?)... and yet if it’s Frisk talking to Kris this line is still strange... because Kris has only been to one bake sale before... you guys understand yet why the narrator mystery is frustrating to me???

Gaster isn’t evil but he’s probably worst void grandpa ever

I do not trust Gaster. I do not trust him at all (I also don’t trust Ralsei). I don’t think he’ll be a traditional villain though. It’d be kinda hypocritical of me to assume the worst of him when I’m such a big Chara fan. The problem is we barely know anything about him. With Chara, we have just enough info to figure out likely motivations, backstory, and personality (from the narration). I have an idea about what Gaster wants but not much about why he’s going about it in this... pretty convoluted way.

I think Gaster wants to be whole again, I think he wants to go back to his friends and family. However, he’s going too far and is fine with people getting hurt as long as he can achieve his goal. Being shattered across time and space probably fucked with his mind at least a little bit. And after a while of nonexistence he’s probably gotten desperate. I’m thinking he’ll be a helpful, if confusing, ally at first, then as we learn more about what he wants he’ll turn into an antagonist. And it will end in an redemption.

Also since there’s apparently an actual debate about this, Gaster is definitely involved with Deltarune, along with Chara. I’m uncertain as to how big Chara’s role is, but Gaster will certainly be a big part of the game. The post I linked about Chara discarding the vessel has undeniable proof it was them, and there’s wayyyy too many hints about Gaster around for him not to be in the game. The speaking style of the one who gave us the survey matches exactly with how Gaster speaks in Entry 17, his music motifs are everywhere (when we call the phone number, the area around the bunker, etc) at least one of his ‘followers’ is up and alive, Seam directly quotes his iconic “darker, yet darker” line... like, there’s no way he’s not involved.

Now, the game over screen is very interesting. Gaster asks us if we want to continue on after we die, and if we say no, the world was “covered in darkness” and we get to listen to some very pretty, but melancholy and slightly ominous music, while we wait in the blank void for Gaster to let us restart. It reminds me of when Chara destroys the world and there’s only howling winds to listen to until they decide to talk to us. Actually, the more I compare the two, the more similar these scenes are.

Frisk is at the mercy of a being more powerful than them, who’s the one that gets to decide if they can continue interacting with the world (with Chara you have to convince them to remake the world). Gaster doesn’t let Frisk reload the timeline themselves, almost as if Gaster is the one with control over the timeline. Gaster bluntly tells Frisk that they failed to save the world, puts them in a time-out as some, frankly, kinda messed up punishment for saying no to restarting, and after a while of presumably contemplating their failure, it’s only then that Gaster lets Frisk try again.

I read a very cool theory that at the start with the survey, when you accept the agreement, you give up your determination to Gaster. This lets the Game Over screen make a lot more sense in context. Gaster is the one who gets to decide when we get to reload the timeline and even where (I saw someone point out that Kris & company typically don’t respawn right by a save point like in Undertale, rather closer to where you last died, that only happens a few times in UT I believe). If this is true that’s... more than a little concerning, but it’s cool too!

Ralsei isn’t evil but he’s certainly suspicious

NOW, let’s talk about everyone’s favorite fluffy boy! Evil Ralsei sounds like the most boring and predictable twist ever. But I’m willing to bet money that there will be a couple of twists with Ralsei’s motives and who he actually is. It’s kinda interesting how Ralsei knows Kris and Susie’s names already, and that he’s the one who tells Kris to direct the soul to Susie, obviously to help out Susie, but maybe also to have a private conversation with Kris?

Gaster never intended for the vessel to be discarded, so it was most likely going to take the place of the human from the prophecy, yet Kris is also one of those “wonderful people” we’re going to meet (Gaster says something to this affect when we name ourselves Kris, note that he only does this with major characters like Susie, Ralsei, and Noelle, who looks like she’s joining us later, and says something different when we call ourselves Toriel, Sans, etc). What I’m getting at is that I’m pretty sure Ralsei either knows the name of the “creator”, the vessel, or both even, and that Kris was also going to join our adventure despite being an extra human. Similar to how Noelle is apparently an extra monster for the Legend.

Back to Ralsei, he definitely seems to know more than he lets on, and could also be lying about some things. It’s pretty interesting that the Spade kingdom’s fountain is the one that was made recently and that we’re supposed to destroy, in contrast to Ralsei’s fountain, which, despite apparently being around for longer, doesn’t have his own subjects? Yet another interesting thing is how Ralsei is usually referred to as a Lightner when he’s with Kris, or with both Kris and Susie.

If Ralsei is hiding something or lying about stuff, I don’t think he’s doing it maliciously. It could be directions from Gaster or something like that. Ralsei’s similarities to Asriel are also very suspicious, and I find the idea of those two not being related at all extremely unconvincing. He acts like a goody two shoes version of Asriel, with his flaws relating to how much of a doormat he is. He’s basically the inverse of the Absolute God of Hyperdeath. Despite how much he advises against fighting anyone, he lets us fight people as much as we please.

Personally, I think he’s a post-pacifist Flowey. It just makes sense to me. Ralsei looks like he’s trying to imitate his idea of Frisk (you can play Frisk as a huge jerk in pacifist yet Asriel still thinks Frisk is super cool), and thinks nonviolence is the way to get the happy ending. He also uses some of the same lines as Flowey in the first battle of the game. I think he’s being manipulated somewhat by Gaster, probably regarding his memories, so he’s actually being genuine as opposed to putting on an act. Although the idea of Ralsei trying to guilt trip us when we drop the manual too many times is hilarious. I also like to think his Light World form is a flower.

The Skeleton Brothers

Last but not least, Sans and Papyrus. Sans, like always, seems to know more about what’s going on. You could interpret Sans as not knowing who we are, but I think he’s actually trolling us. He acts like he knows Kris at first, probably because he’s aware that we don’t know this is their first meeting. “Look who it is! How’s it going kid?” is what you say to someone you met before, I don’t care what anyone says.

Pretending to know someone is a weird joke for a first meeting, imo, unless he means it as a inside joke for Frisk, and isn’t really talking to Kris at that moment. Then, when we say “great to see you again” Sans pretends we’re a weirdo to make fun like he usually does, not giving away that he recognizes Frisk’s soul and putting them on edge as a result (probably failing on the latter at least lbr), so Frisk gets to feel sheepish while Kris is confused as fuck.

I’m not... completely certain from what timeline Sans is, and I’m pretty certain it’s a Sans from one of the Undertale timelines, with the joke about knowing us and how he’s the only returning character with an unchanged sprite. The easiest would be a Genocide run, maybe he didn’t really get killed and if that’s the case, he really has nothing left to live for so might as well go to a different universe, especially if the anomaly is running around and possibly mucking things up again. But why does he have Grillby’s bar with him? I guess he did leave it behind in the Genocide timeline and he said he’s “going to Grillby’s” so that would make sense.

But what about Papyrus? Papyrus throws the biggest wrench in these theories about this being the same Sans because we don’t know anything about this Papyrus. If it’s the DR version of Papyrus then that means there’s a DR version of Sans around with no little brother, and I can’t see UT Sans being that selfish. Post-pacifist would work better, I think. Papyrus is alive in that timeline and maybe if it was important enough they’d leave their friends behind to the DR universe but I kinda can’t see them doing that?

Any other timeline besides Pacifist and Genocide doesn’t work because Grillby never leaves his bar alone for Sans to take (I can’t see him doing that if Grillby is still tending to it). Although I will say if this is a Papyrus who knows who Frisk is, I can see Papyrus being able to play dumb about the similarities he sees between Kris and Frisk, including the soul. He’s always been good at hiding how powerful he is (and seems to be aware of Sans’ teleportation and study of different timelines), so he could just leave more hints about the apparent dimensional travel going on between these games but never being too obvious about it.

Also, I have to say I don’t think either of them are aware of Gaster being involved, although I could be wrong, there’s not much to indicate for either or. Oh, and since Gaster seems to be such a big deal in this game, I think we have a good chance of finally knowing more of the skelebros’ backstory.

Predictions for the full game

There’s no way “your choices don’t matter” is going to be 100% endorsed by the game, even with only one ending. I feel like the ending will be like the “despite everything, it’s still you” line, ie it’ll have a different feel depending on what you do. That particular mirror line still appears whether you do pacifist or when you’re at LV 18. It sounds bittersweet and affectionate when you’ve shown mercy, but when you’ve been pretty dusty, it sounds almost... judgmental. Like wow, you didn’t improve yourself at all, huh?

We already kinda see this with when you fight the Darkners or spare them all (which I definitely think will have a butterfly effect, along with freeing Jevil maybe). The fight ending is more somber while the spare ending is a lot more funny. I highly doubt Deltarune will go full grimdark, even if there will be challenges and horrifying things to discover. I’m sure the ending will be satisfying and have some sort of hopeful tone.

Anyway, now for less big picture things. I’d LOVE for Monster Kid to have a bigger role in the later parts of the game, since they were basically Frisk’s only peer in the underground that they could count on not to kill them (yes Flowey I’m shading you), and I have a big soft spot for their friendship, despite it being rather minor. If the soul belongs to Frisk like I think it does, there could be some interesting interactions. Especially since Frisk is closer to their version of MK than Kris is to the one they know.

However, I highly doubt it. MK doesn’t have a portrait or their own soundbites. I do think part of the game will be Kris improving their relationships with the monsters though, and MK will be one of them. They seem to count on each other to be group partners when they need to, but they’re not close at all. MK looks like they have a tendency to put their foot in their mouth around Kris and doesn’t really get them. I��m thinking that’ll change depending on our choices whenever we get a chance to interact with them. Either that, or there will be a running cycle of MK accidentally annoying Kris, them realizing it and getting uncomfortable, awkward silence ensues, rinse and repeat. RIP school friends.

Noelle will definitely be a big character, since like many predicted, she’s coming to the Dark World. Rudy is almost certainly going to die and that will affect her character arc, along with her seemingly strained relationship with her mother (her being too scared to ask her mom for the house keys raises a red flag).

I think her and Susie will get off on the wrong foot, Noelle will come on too strong and Susie thinks she’s making fun of her and doesn’t actually want to be her friend, because why would she? As they have to interact more in the Dark World though, I’m sure eventually Susie will realize she was being sincere, they’ll become good friends, and even start dating toward the end. Unlike with Alphys and Undyne, I don’t think we’ll get to be a wingman. We might attempt it, but nothing comes from it and it’s just those two becoming a couple on their own to follow the “your choices don’t matter” theme.

Berdly kinda seems like he’s just going to be a jerk character with funny lines, but he does have a portrait and unique soundbites, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets an arc to himself. Maaaaybe he’ll join the party but who really knows. I’m applying this same “maybe” to all new school characters that have the portrait, because why bother giving those to characters with minor roles? Maybe so we can see what they look like better but eh.

Also this is more of a personal preference of mine but I don’t want more villains like the king... a big appeal to me with Undertale is how no one is completely evil and every major character gets their happy ending (except Asriel, Chara, post-Genocide run Frisk, and Gaster, more on that in a little) and is generally written to be flawed but likable and understandable in their own way. I can deal with the king because the fairytale/Alice in Wonderland vibes of the Dark World gives me the impression that it’s meant to have a black-and-white story to tell, where the heroes defeat the bad guy with very little depth, especially if it was created by Asriel, but I think as we explore the Dark World more, it will be more gray.

Timeline shenanigans

(Please also read the last paragraph in the last section for added context)

As I stated before, the universe of Deltarune comes across to me as an imperfectly created AU in a post-Undertale ending setting. This is a big, albeit maybe unlikely wish of mine, but I’m hoping that those who didn’t get an actual happy ending in Undertale will by the end of Deltarune. I think it’s significant how you’re told to play Deltarune only after finishing Undertale. Outside of it generally bring more enjoyable when you recognize the characters and get the references, I think it’s also important to understand the story.

Toby has stated that Deltarune “is a different world with different rules, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be no connections between [it and Undertale.]” If you got a happy ending in Undertale, Deltarune isn’t a sequel to that. It’s a sequel to the soulless-pacifist/genocide ending, or a sequel to a pacifist ending unrelated to our own. Undertale has already made a point to say there’s other AUs and timelines going on separate from ours, which what I think Toby means by our specific playthrough being “untouched” if we got the pacifist ending.

Also, about the 3 save files. They are, frankly, extremely confusing to me, but I still have some things to say. It’s interesting how Asriel’s drawers (and I think other places in the room) each contain different things between the different save files. I have to wonder if they’ll be implemented in the story somehow, and if the differences will increase as the story goes on, but I can’t see how Toby will do that without making multiple endings in the process? I wonder if we’ll have to use them in the same way Omega Flowey did (who had multiple save files according to the souls).

Chapter 2

As for chapter 2, like I said earlier, I highly, highly doubt Kris is going to kill any monsters, that just wouldn’t fit with what we know of them so far. I wouldn’t be surprised if they do attempt to attack the soul though. I’m leaning more towards them threatening it, doing a fakeout stab or something (“who’s in control NOW?”), and dumping the soul somewhere. Maybe they’d succeed in killing it but the soul would just reload, to the last save point even, back within Kris, which they’re probably aware of. There’d be no point in killing it when it’d just come back to life, so I think Kris is going to get rid of it in a nonviolent way.

I’m not sure if we’d go straight to what happens there though? I heard in Mother 3, a game Toby clearly likes, each chapter starts off with a different character’s perspective or something, which would be good for suspense in Deltarune ch 2. We’d probably play as Susie or Noelle at first, I’m thinking Susie in particular. We’d see what her home life is like and where she lives (big mysteries in the game and a point of concern considering her eating habits). She’d go to school, but Kris isn’t there because they’re sleeping in and didn’t feel like going. They’d probably get away with it by telling Toriel they’re sick because literally everyone talked about how being possessed was making them look ill.

Susie wanders around town for a bit after school, mustering up the courage to ask Kris if they still want to go back to the Dark World because what if skipping school was their subtle way of rejecting her friendship? She comes across the red soul, goes what the fuck that’s KRIS’ soul?? Is immediately concerned and brings it back to them. Kris looks like they don’t give a shit but is internally freaking out, makes up some excuse, looking entirely too shady so the Kris-is-evil theorists can have some fuel before being shot down later.

And then we’d switch to their perspective (or, I guess we get to play as the red soul) where they talk to the red soul, initially Kris is very aggressive but somehow we figure out a way to communicate with Kris and tell our side of the story. Apologies are made and Kris is somewhat mollified. Maybe this time Kris consents to being possessed but makes up some ground rules or the two work together to find a different vessel, maybe the golden flower in Asgore’s shop?

Also in the middle of all this there’s a flashback to how the soul ended up where Susie found it. I think this could all work with Noelle instead too. We don’t know what she does after school and she has known Kris for a long time, she might know what their real soul looks like (Like I said earlier, I do think Kris’ actual soul is red) or at least how human souls aren’t white and are right side up.

Summarization of the most important theories I guess

—Kris is being possessed by the red soul, which belongs to an teenage Frisk after a pacifist or soulless pacifist route.

—Considering the options for when you talk to Sans (“Great to see you again!” vs “Who the hell are you?”) I think one half of most options (probably the left side) is something Frisk would like to say while the other half is what Kris wants to say.

—The Deltarune Universe was created by both UT Asriel (more specifically post-pacifist Flowey) and Chara, with help from Gaster. However, he’s manipulating them for his own agenda which is why the world is more than a little weird. Asriel and Chara probably don’t know the other is working with Gaster as well.

—Chara is aware that Gaster is shady and doesn’t fully trust him, to the point they’re interfering and outright arguing with him, unlike UT Asriel, who might have his memories scrambled up.

—Kris is Chara’s self-insert for the Deltarune world, while Ralsei is Flowey. I’m not exactly sure if DR Asriel exists.

—Even if Gaster will be an antagonist he’s getting an redemption arc. He just wants to exist again, but he’s getting too desperate.

—Sans (who is his UT self as far as I’m concerned) is here to keep an eye on the anomaly (Frisk) and make sure they don’t abuse their time-travel powers again. UT Papyrus is also here, knows more than one might expect, possibly to befriend the anomaly to discourage them from doing anything questionable (although I doubt he thinks badly of the anomaly, whether it’s us or Frisk).

—We should have read the fine print before “accepting everything that will happen from now on” because doing that allowed Gaster to steal our determination and now it’s his turn on the timeline.

—Determination still exists, otherwise we couldn’t save and reload the timeline, it just hasn’t been named by Alphys like in UT.

—Gaster is the one who put Frisk’s soul in Kris, while Chara was trying to tell Frisk what their real name is, before getting cut off.

—I think every character is getting a happy ending it’ll just take a while to get there.

—Not exactly a theory, but I find it very interesting how the Angel in the Legend is seen as some sort of enemy to peace between the Lightners and Darkners, while also being revered as a god in Hometown’s religion. Not to mention how the Angel in the prophecy of the Delta Rune is either Frisk, Chara, or Asriel in Undertale.

Annnnnddd that’s it I guess? Congrats if you got to the end, and I appreciate people reading this even if you didn’t read the whole thing. I’m not tagging this because I don’t want people coming onto this post to say how Chara or Kris are definitely evil, but I don’t mind discussion and people telling me they disagree with any of my theories.

#the seal barked again #seriously guys this is longgggg #i wont be offended if you only read parts of it

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neko-shadow-archived · 7 years

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So, a while back I posted a list, saying what main Undertale character would go in which Hogwarts House. And I figure I should explain my choices. Especially a few of them.

First off, let’s just get a small overview of what each house is like from the hat, shall we?

“You might belong in Gryffindor, Where dwell the brave at heart, Their daring, nerve, and chivalry Set Gryffindors apart;

You might belong in Hufflepuff, Where they are just and loyal, Those patient Hufflepuffs are true And unafraid of toil;

Or yet in wise old Ravenclaw, if you've a ready mind, Where those of wit and learning, Will always find their kind;

Or perhaps in Slytherin You'll make your real friends, Those cunning folks use any means To achieve their ends.”

I may deviate from this a little because of opinions, but still.

I will also point out that I headcanon Frisk as male and Chara as female. I will try to keep it to gender neutral pronouns with them, but if I end up calling Frisk ‘he’ and Chara ‘she’, well... that’s the reason why. I’ll also put this under a read more because it’s pretty long.

Frisk - Hufflepuff

It would be easy enough to put Frisk into Gryffindor. They is a brave kid after all, going through an entire Kingdom of Monsters. But, I decided on Hufflepuff... although I should probably state this is purely for the Pacifist!Frisk. Neutral!Frisk I would say probably is Gryffindor, and Genocide!Frisk... well, Genocide!Frisk is more or less Chara, in my opinion, so we’ll get to them when we get to them.

Basically, I put Frisk in Hufflepuff because one of the things I think is most telling about them, as opposed to the Gryffindor Neutral!Frisk, is that they is patient and willing to work hard. Neutral!Frisk does have shades of this too, but they will also kill, which is the easy way to take out some monsters. Pacifist!Frisk is willing to be patient and do what needs to be done to pacify the monster rather than kill it, and refuses to shift from this strategy unless they HAVE to, as in when they fight Asgore, who refuses to shift from his duty to his people, and Omega Flowey who... yeah. No talking them down. Flowey can’t feel guilt or anything at the point, after all.

Frisk will work hard and do what they feel needs to be done, pacifying monsters rather than fighting them, working hard to make friends with everyone, including Undyne, who showed absolutely no feelings towards them other than WANTING THEM DEAD. It takes a lot of bravery, to be sure, but I think it speaks more to hardwork and patience, both of which are Hufflepuff traits.

Toriel - Ravenclaw

It could be easy to put Toriel in Hufflepuff as well. As a motherly type, she is patient and works hard to be a good surrogate mother for Frisk, and before then, a good mother for Asriel and Chara. However... there is a reason I had put her in Ravenclaw. Ravenclaw is all about being smart and clever, and quick-witted, basically. This might be a little different from what is intended... but Toriel is indeed smart. She is clever enough to have figured out how to disarm the traps in the ruins, and likely how to arm them as well. Even if she was around before the war, and thus knows how they work from those times, she still remembered how to do it. Also, most notably, she says that she wants to be a teacher, and, in the epilogue, she indeed does open a school and become a teacher. She is clever, and wants to pass on that knowledge, valuing it highly. She even prepares a curriculum for Frisk, although it never gets used. You can say she belongs in other houses, but while she shows some points of Hufflepuff, I don’t think she shows much in the way of qualities for Gryffindor or Slytherin, and I think she shows more signs of Ravenclaw than Hufflepuff.

Sans - Ravenclaw

Before I start, this has nothing to do with the Soriel ship. I don’t actually like the ship. A mutual taste in bad jokes is a poor foundation for a relationship, in my opinion, and that’s pretty much what Sans and Toriel really have. A mutual taste in bad jokes.

Getting that out of the way... in my opinion, Sans is definitely a Ravenclaw. He’s lazy, which goes against him being a Hufflepuff, he’s not really shown to be too ambitious, which goes against him being a Slytherin... There aren’t really any signs of him being a Gryffindor, unless you count him being the last person to fight in a Genocide route... but considering that at that point, he’s figured out that if you finish your route, you’ll destroy the timeline... fighting you is more of a smart move rather than a brave one, considering it’s the only way to stop the destruction of everyone and everything in that timeline.

One thing that cannot be denied is that Sans is very intelligent. Even ignoring all the fanon stuff, he has a book on Quantum Physics (well, several of them... inside books of jokes. some of which are inside books on Quantum Physics), and is intelligent enough to watch you without you noticing throughout your journey, and judge you based on your actions. He is also clever enough to realize when you’ve already seen something or done something. Some of the other characters have shades of this, like Toriel saying you look like you’ve seen a ghost if you reset after killing her, and Flowey DEFINITELY knowing when you’ve been resetting... but Sans is a character who SHOULDN’T know for certain, but he does, based on Frisk’s reactions.

He’s definitely not a Hufflepuff, he has the cunning of a Slytherin but that’s about it, and while he COULD be a Gryffindor, he definitely has more pointing towards Ravenclaw.

Papyrus - Slytherin

Ooooh boy, I can already see this one ruffling some feathers. Don’t get me wrong, Papyrus is definitely a brave one, including opting to try to convince you to abort a genocide route, and he’s definitely fairly clever. Despite you being the first human he’s ever come up against, he knows when to stop attacking so that he doesn’t kill you. And he definitely works hard. Despite the only other skeleton we have to compare him to, Sans, he’s tough. Even Undyne admits that he’s tough, although she also says she can’t make him a member of the Royal Guard.

However, that’s why I’ve made him a Slytherin. Practically EVERYTHING he does in the game is to be a Royal Guard. He mentions it all the time, it’s clearly the ambition that drives him, even if friendship does sometimes cause it to take a bad seat. He even says the pacifist ending is the worst possible ending because the Royal Guard is disbanded before he can join it. And he will even, at first, attempt to capture you rather than being friends with you, just so he can join the Royal Guard. Also, don’t forget he is pretty cunning. If need be, when you try to make friends with Undyne, when she tells you to leave her house, Papyrus, having jumped out of the window previously, comes back and says that Undyne simply isn’t capable of being friends with Frisk. Which results in Undyne actually making friends with Frisk. Which, considering most of the time Papyrus is, let’s be honest, less than intelligent, is a VERY clever and cunning move by Papyrus. So due to the ambition that guides almost all of his actions, and his surprising cunning, Papyrus is fairly clearly a Slytherin, in my opinion.

Undyne - Gryffindor

I’m betting everyone saw this one coming, though. Undyne is brave. Maybe not too chivalrous in her first two encounters, when she fights you for real, she gives you a shield to block her attacks. And even tells you how to block her attacks, telling you that if unless you face her head on, you won’t be able to beat her.

She’s also daring. Although most bosses share this trait, she won’t give up, not even if you bring her down to critical health, which is enough to make most monsters give in, allowing you to spare them. But not Undyne. In fact, she is so determined that she will keep on fighting even after her HP is depleted, tapping into her determination to continue fighting... albiet it being a futile last hurrah, her attacks gradually slowing and becoming more and more pathetic the more her body starts breaking down and melting. And in the Genocide Run, realizing that you’re not going to stop with just killing all monsters, she taps into her determination in another way, becoming the sturdiest boss in the game. That’s part of the point. Even after having been killed by you in one shot, she will STILL refuse to die, putting everything on the line, using determination, that, even if she wins, will most likely seal her painful death.

She prides herself on being a hero. And if you consider the side of Monsterkind, she probably is. The reason she doesn’t seem like a chivalrous hero with nerves of steel is because she’s your enemy. She does show signs of Hufflepuff, being a hard worker, but not so much signs of Slytherin or Ravenclaw. Thus, I doubt anyone is surprised that Undyne is a Gryffindor.

Alphys - Ravenclaw

Another fairly obvious one. While Mettaton isn’t exactly a real robot, being a monster’s soul in a metal body, Alphys is still incredibly intelligent, even if her experiments didn’t necessarily go as she planned. She was stepping into new territory with her experiments with Determination, after all. Not to mention creating Mettaton’s body, which can transform at the flick of a switch into either Mettaton’s dream body, or a body designed to kill humans... even if it is terrible at doing so, due to how powerful you’ve gotten by the time you encounter Mettaton Neo. She still created both of those bodies though, and is clever enough to lead a lot of monsters away from you, evacuating them.

Apart from that, she doesn’t show that many traits from other houses. Considering how long it took her to own up to her mistakes, eventually doing so because she couldn’t stand lying anymore rather than any sort of actual courage, she’s definitely not a fit for Gryffindor. Considering how little she does after her experiments were a failure, simply holing herself up in her lab and not doing that much work, she’s not a Hufflepuff. And while she does have SOME cunning, trying to manipulate events through Hotland and the Core to make herself seem better than she is, and like a hero who saved Frisk, she lacks any other Slytherin qualities.

Alphys is, very clearly, a Ravenclaw.

Mettaton - Slytherin

Maybe I should have put him after Muffet. Ah well.

Mettaton is clearly a Slytherin. Sharing the same sort of arrogance seen in a fair few Slytherins, while not explicitly a trait, does help a little. But let’s look at his other things.

He is a big star in the Underground, having even left Blooky, after saying that he wouldn’t, in order to follow his own dream... or his ambition. Even once achieving this, he didn’t stop there. He fights Frisk for three reasons:

He doesn’t believe that Frisk is strong enough to fight Asgore

He wants to be humanity’s hero, killing you, taking your soul and then stopping Asgore’s plan. While this is technically a heroic move... it’s also another showing of Mettaton’s ambitions, wanting to save humanity... which leads to

He wants to become a star in the human world, where he thinks millions of humans will watch him. Two of those three reasons tie into ambition. As for cunning... he did play along with Alphys’ plans, but at the end he turned it against her, making her seem like an unreliable guide through the Core, which definitely rattled Alphys and made her doubt herself, losing her newfound confidence. I’m not sure it really achieved anything of note for Mettaton spefically, but still.

Mettaton is also fairly hardworking and smart, as well as being brave, standing in front of Chara as the last obstacle before the final fight, but I think his ambition stands out much more than those. Hence why he’s in Slytherin.

Muffet - Slytherin

Muffet, again, I’ve classed as a Slytherin. A lot of this is simply guessing, since you see Muffet once, having a bake sale, and then have a fight against her... and that’s basically it. You can talk to her after your battle but you don’t get too much characterization for her, which is understandable. She wasn’t designed by Toby if I’m remembering right, she was the character of someone who backed enough money. In any case, this is mostly guesswork.

Muffet isn’t stupid, but she’s not very smart. She sells her goods for 9999g, and, while we do see someone actually did buy something from her, they bought it more out of being intimidated into it than anything else. And yet, during the fight, she literally THROWS a lot of doughnuts at you. So she prices them high, and then tosses them willy-nilly at you, wasting a fair amount of money, and a LOT of potential profits. So definitely not a Ravenclaw.

She stands in your way. But not out of bravery or any sense of justice or anything like that... even if you go through a Genocide run, the only reason she fights you is because someone told her you don’t like spiders. And that you kill them. And then, once the telegraph from the spiders in the Ruins arrives, telling her that you never hurt a single spider, she spares you, even if you killed everyone else you came across. Her fighting you was purely for vengeance for spiders she thought you had killed, and to get your soul to sell it to someone. I dunno if they ever specify WHO, but I think it is at least hinted at it being Mettaton? I doubt it’d be Flowey, at that point. But yeah, she only fights to get revenge for spiders she thought you had killed. So, not a Gryffindor.

She does work hard for her spiders, but she’s not really patient. charging WAY over the price that the spiders in the ruins charge for no reason other than... greed, I guess. Even if it is for a good cause. But if she were to have some patience and sold her things at a more reasonable price, she’d be able to raise the money easily. It would take longer, since that one guy buying one doughnut from her probably gave her more than enough money to get the spiders out of the ruins with the heated limo, but she’d get a lot more customers. I mean, lot at the bunch of monsters buying hot dogs from Sans, not necessarily because they’re any good, but they’re cheaper at least. And as mentioned, Hufflepuffs are ‘just’. Muffet fighting you isn’t ‘just’ at all, it’s only for revenge for dead spiders, and she stops immediately once she finds out you didn’t even hurt any spiders. So not a Hufflepuff.

Slytherin qualites, on the other hand... she has huge ambitions, charging a lot of money for baked goods in other to make lots of money. For a good cause, yes, but a good cause is still an ambition. And she is cunning, changing your soul’s type before fighting you towards her advantage. After all, the fight against her would be a LOT easier if you could move freely. Not to mention she uses some of that cunning to convince someone to buy a doughnut by staring at them and licking her lips, if I remember rightly. Intimidating them into doing so without saying a word. That’s pretty darn cunning in my book. And that’s why she’s a Slytherin.

Asgore - Hufflepuff

Asgore is another easy one to judge, based on his actions in the game. While some portray him as a remorseless child killer, he genuinely feels bad about doing it. He’s probably more scared of fighting you than you are of him, and unless you are at 1 HP, his attacks can’t kill you. So why does he fight you anyway?

Because of loyalty to his people. His loyalty to his people forces him to do one of the things he probably wants to do the least, as shown by him not simply taking the first human soul and going through the barrier to gather more quickly. His loyalty has forced him to kill (I think it was specified that Asgore killed all the children himself?) 6 children when it was the last thing he wanted to do. And it forces him to fight you, and while he cannot bring himself to fight you with all his might, he will still kill you and take your soul for his people.

He might have some traits of other houses, other than Slytherin, but I think the strength of his loyalty alone places him squarely in Hufflepuff.

Asriel - Hufflepuff

I should probably state that I’m counting Asriel as a different entity from Flowey. Flowey would straight-up be a Slytherin. Wanting to gain all the human souls for himself? Befriending and manipulating Papyrus for his own goals? Yeah, his main traits are ambition and cunning.

But Asriel is a different story. He is kind and gentle, despite being the final boss and very capable of killing you. But as soon as he feels the emotions he had been lacking as a soulless flower, he cannot fight you anymore, reverting back to a child and crying.

Most of me thinking he’s in Hufflepuff is based on his relationship with Chara, and Chara’s plan of killing themselves, having Asriel absorb their soul and go to the surface to collect enough souls to free everyone.

Asriel agreed to the plan, despite thinking it was a bad idea, and everytime he brought up a complaint, he was convinced back into it fairly easily. He was very loyal to Chara, but even when he got to the surface, he couldn’t kill anyone. This might be him being just. These humans were not the ones who fought them and sealed them underground. They had done nothing would. It would not be fair, it would not be just to kill them. I don’t know if that was his reasoning, but he still did not attack them.

Asriel is loyal and just. So he is a Hufflepuff.

Chara - Slytherin

This is basically based off the Chara at the end of the Genocide Run, and a little off before they died.

Let’s start with Chara before they died.

It certainly was an ambition plan they had, wasn’t it? Killing themselves by eating buttercups so Asriel could take their soul, and gain enough souls to free humanity. Being the saviour of an entire race, and likely a key hero in the ensuing war (remember that Chara had a very low opinion of humanity) is an very ambitious plan. And convincing their soft, gentle brother to go along with it may have taken a fair bit of cunning, since he would have had to convince Asriel not to mention the plan to Toriel or Asgore.

And they get even more ambitious after their death, wanting to destroy the entire timeline if you gain enough LV. And even if you don’t want to do that, they take control and do it anyway.

Chara also isn’t exactly a very pleasant person. Even Asriel admits to as such. There isn’t too much evidence of Chara being particularly brave, clever or loyal. Especially considering they will force you to kill Flowey while they are using Asriel’s face and voice. So all I have to go on is their ambition and cunning and since those are the properties of the Slytherin house....

So, there we are. Feel free to give me your thoughts on this.

#out of catnip #headcanons

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missingmorethanmyskull-arch-blog · 7 years

Text

Tox’s (and part of Arum’s) Life Story, and music

This gon’ be long so I’ll put it under a readmore

(a bit of comparison to Red and Boss too so I think I’ll reblob this to them)

This is me rambling to my dear @r0astet0aste but I took out everything that’s not actual rambling to shorten it if only a little

I've got to get up an info page for Tox

-slams hands down-

LISTEN I'M GONNA DUMP ALL HIS SONGS ON YOU

OK SO

ARUM NEVER PAID ATTENTION TO HIM. EVER. EVER EVER. NOT UNTIL THE WAR

HE WAS FAR TOO FOCUSED ON BEING GASTER'S ASSISTANT, AND THEN TRYING TO GET HIM BACK

THE SCIENCE DAD AND SON IGNORED THEIR 'UNINTELLIGENT' SON/BRO

TOX GREW UP FEELING INFERIOR AND NEGLECTED AND STUPID

SO HE THREW EVERYTHING HE HAD INTO PHYSICAL ABILITY IN THE HOPES IT WOULD GARNER HIS BROTHER'S ATTENTION

AND EVENTUALLY STARTED TAKING OUT HIS FRUSTRATION BY ABUSING ARUM

BUT ARUM DIDN'T GIVE A FUCK

HE TOOK THE PUNCHES AND KICKS LIKE "are you done throwing a tantrum, bitch? yes? good bye i'm going back downstairs"

Basically he was enamored with his dear old daddy and considered Tox a waste of space

So getting beaten up had the same effect as Tox wailing annoyingly as a small child. That "ugh stop" effect

Meanwhile poor Tox just

Wanted attention

Yes he beat up his big bro but all he wanted was attention

So there's this song for his feelings on Arum pre-war

Diary of Jane - Breaking Benjamin

Keep in mind he doesn't remember G

So all he knows is Arum ignored him for science for no reason

And so he was desperate for attention

He got it in the royal guard

He was good. He was powerful. He was Undyne's favorite

He fell for her of course

So they got together

(Arum has been with his Grillz, his Alphys, and the shopkeep bun in terms of real relationships I just need to figure out the order. Alphys first I'm p sure)

Then

The human fell

Arum fell for her gradually, put his trust in her, believed she'd break them free, etc

That didn't happen

King died. Six souls were destroyed

Toriel returned to the throne

Undyne didn't like that

Because Toriel instilled a mercy policy to fallen humans

But Frisk had told Arum that the human population had grown immensely in the last several centuries

Breaking free and initiating war - Undyne's plan, just like Asgore's - would result in monsters being eradicated

Arum was always on Toriel's side

When Undyne challenged her, the civil war broke out

Tox felt loyalty to his lover, ofc, but he also realized Arum and Toriel were right. War was a bad idea

Besides, the last thing they needed was their ruler to be another Asgore

Who was ruthless and made the underground hell

So he was torn

He eventually settled on a side - Toriel's

There's this song for when he had to fight Undyne

Headstrong - Trapt

Then

then

well, keep in mind

none of this was actually Frisk's fault

Everyone thinks it was but

In reality, she was trapped in the void by Flowey during his omega battle

Flowey felt horribly guilty for fucking it all up

He started rewinding time, again and again

Arum was the only one aware of this

He experienced the resets and reloads

So the Civil War, which stretched for idk a few decades probably

was actually much longer

Tox died

When he was killed the first time

Arum had a meltdown

He realized then that

despite everything

Tox was the only family he'd had left

And none of their fighting mattered, did it?

He'd wasted his brotherhood. He'd ignored the only person he had that was family

First mental break

This song

Not Gonna Die - Skillet

ISN'T IT GREAT?

the last thing i heard was you whispering goodbye... and then i heard you flatline

Arum was an absolute mess

Then time rewound again

He tried to warn Tox not to fight in that battle

Tox didn't listen to him ofc

so he died several times in the war

So I've got a few songs about that

Soldier Side - System of a Down

Battle Cry - Skillet

Not Afraid to Die - Written By Wolves

And my favorite for the Civil War time (aside from Not Gonna Die)

IS THIS ONE

Rise - Skillet

(by the way, yes, in every Skillet song on his playlist, Arum is the girl singing)

I mean

technically Undyne is the one revolting from Toriel's rule but

Toriel's rule is basically a revolution from Asgore's reign of terror

They're fighting on Toriel's side for a semi-peaceful life

They can't wage war on the humans

They obviously won't be breaking the barrier any time soon, back at 0 souls

All Toriel and her followers want is for the death to stop

So the last 40 seconds of this song?

With the phone call and the news reports and all that

They're all things that would've happened in Asgore's reign

Monsters breaking into each others's houses and dusting them for EXP

People being left on the streets to die

etc

AND THAT LAST MALE VOICE?

"You're such a failure!"

"What is wrong with you?"

"You're worthless!"

"You can't do anything right!"

"I wish you had never been born!"

All things Arum has snapped at him throughout his life

So he's got shit like that playing in his head

But he's still fighting to protect

and by this point

Arum has lost him so many times

He just

He wants to take it all back

He synthesizes a carefully measured solution of determination

Aware of his and Alphys's failures with the amalgamates, he realizes pure determination would only make Tox melt

(Alphys has committed suicide by now btw)

So he works desperately to find a working determination amount, mixed with other chemicals, so he can stop Tox from dying without making him melt

Not much time to test it but he does his best

Keep in mind Tox can't remember any of his deaths

All he knows is his brother has flipped his fucking lid ever since the human left

And keeps talking about time shit that he doesn't understand

Arum forces the determination mixture into him

It works

Tox survives the battle he kept dying in

Drawback: Tox's body distorted

It didn't melt but

It had to shift and change to account for the DT

this is why he's nine feet tall

The civil war continues

Inevitably, Toriel loses and steps down

She returns to the ruins

Undyne takes the throne

Tox is one of the only survivors on Toriel's side

The brothers return to Snowdin and Arum attempts to explain the whole time shit

(He pointedly does not attempt to explain Gaster or what he was always working on)

But he apologizes for everything

So ok Tox doesn't really get it all

He's still just... not very bright

But he realizes that Arum has lost everything and is trying to change

So things for sure aren't perfect, but they at least stop hitting each other and attempt to communicate more

Arum's first mental break and the endless resets within the war has left him not enitrely stable

Arum was a mess

He put his faith and trust in Frisk and look where it got him

Look where it got the whole underground

He returned to working desperately to try and get his dad back

He somehow convinced himself if Gaster was back, everything would be okay again

Honestly he put G on such a high pedestal, it's crazy

He consistently believes he could never measure up to him in terms of scientific ability, though he's been monitoring and repairing the core personally ever since G was cast into the void

He's probably surpassed G by this point but he can't believe it

he's got Red's failure complex honestly

He just shows it far less

Oh I should mention his HP was never 1

He always had over 200

Physically, he was always stronger than Red

He just didn't use it

Bigger, stronger, he didn't have the defects that Red was created with basically

anyway after that, whenever a human fell, they'd kill the human and purposefully crush their soul into little bits

so Undyne couldn't take the soul for herself

a few slipped through the cracks, tho

current time, Undyne has 3

Flowey kept occasionally fucking with time

The magic in the underground soured

Crops began to fail

Soon, food became very scarce

the monster population had basically halved due to the war but still

Hunger began to take control over everything

Tox came up with the clever idea (for once) of slowly conditioning himself and Arum to be resistant to most poisons

They started to poison their own food stores to deter people from stealing their food

But the fact is they started to starve slowly

Another human fell

In a fit of hunger, having lost himself, Arum killed and ate the human

well he set half aside for Tox but

yeah he tasted meat for the first time that day

Cue another mental break afterwards, when he realized the brutal, horrifying act he'd just committed

He'd killed only a few times in his life, and only in self-defense

Tox had dusted many in the war, but that was war

This was him murdering and eating someone in cold blood

and he really loved the taste, too

He was sickened by himself

Tox, too

But they didn't really have a choice anymore

Tox had long since accepted that the world was fucked up

Arum was new to the idea, having locked himself away in labs for most of his life, he was far more sensitive to this shit

This was around the time that Arum first became suicidal

So here's another Tox song as he started to realize Arum was in even worse mental shape than he thought

Never Too Late - Three Days Grace

Arum is growing ever more desperate about getting his father back

On a very bad day, he attempted to use the machine he was building, before he had finished it and properly tested it

Oh boy did that backfire

He reached into the void with a flawed machine and the void yanked payment

You've seen Fullmetal Alchemist, right?

Them boys reached into the void asking for the impossible

Arum reached into the void asking for something very possible, but he did it in a flawed way

He didn't have enough power or control in the machine

So first of all it exploded and took a chunk out of his skull manually

Now that could be healed with green magic provided you have all of the bone material with you

But what the void took wasn't all physical

It took chunks of his mind

Not only that, it soured and rotted his soul

His soul reached 0/0 HP but he did not die

His soul was permanently rotted and changed. He's already at 0, but still there, so he can't die

His magic soured too

You recall his dark, dark red magic color? Almost brownish black?

Wasn't originally that color

The hole in his skull destroyed one eye but the other began to glow permanently

He can't teleport, he can't die, he can't conceive a child, he can't even soulbond

He's essentially a zombie

And he looked the part for a while, too

Tox heard the explosion and rushed down there to find Arum unconscious with a chunk missing, tendrils of voidy shit being battered back by vines

Flowey probably saved them all from more damage

Tox attempted to heal the wound in Arum's skull but it didn't work

His body no longer accepted green magic

The basis of green magic is healing HP and at 0/0, there is nothing to be healed

Green magic hurts Arum about as much as being attacked does

Both make his soul glitch the fuck out like an amalgamate's

Anyway, Arum was unconscious for a damn long time

Days

But finally, he woke up... And he couldn't remember anything. He couldn't focus his gaze on anything. He couldn't speak and could hardly move

He was completely catatonic and only vaguely conscious

Tox had to take care of him the same way you might take care of a baby or doll, minus the crying

He fed Arum by hand, carried him around the house, manually moved his joints so Arum's body didn't entropy

Attempted to communicate in any way

Eventually Arum started to be able to recognize sign language again, and at least nod or shake his head in response to simple questions

He slowly regained control of his body, then speech, and at last, his memories began to come back hazily

He's still missing chunks of his life but he made a pretty miraculous recovery over a period of several years

He remembers, vaguely, the feeling of time resetting

But he can no longer experience resets properly

He doesn't remember them and they give him intense migraines

He never remembered the events of the day the machine exploded, and seeing as Tox has no clue what happened, he still doesn't know

He's just sort of... Assumed the machine is fine

And hes always like "oh yeah i should get back to building it some day" but hasn't gone to the basement since and he doesn't know why

Flowey ain't around

I mean they were never friends

Arum and Flowey fought over resets before, though Arum's mostly forgotten it

And they've talked about Alphys or about science briefly but

Theyre acquaintances at best

But Flowey, guilt ridden yet again, hasn't been around and won't tell him what happened

Anyway

The period of several years where Arum was 100% dependent on Tox stuck with them

Their shaky bond has evolved into a full on dependency on each other

Arum needs Tox desperately because he's a fucking mess mentally, and often he'll have bad days where he can't remember anything and goes semi-catatonic again

During which days Tox babies him and ensures his safety and comfort

Tox needs Arum because now he has a purpose

He's not only wanted but needed

It's like they never fought

They're as close as brothers can get

(Without being incestuous lmao)

They rely on each other 100%

Arum is there for Tox when he has war-induced PTSD flashbacks and needs comfort. Arum feeds them both with humans and other food he can steal.

Tox mans puzzles, patrols, keeps them safe from Undyne and is there for when Arum's mental health deteriorates

They split food evenly down the middle

Arum would give Tox more of his share since he can't starve to death, but Tox refuses

Arum is still often suicidal

He's honestly tried every method in the book to die

Overdose on poison he's trained himself to survive. Bullet to the head (ow). Trying to crush his own soul. Starving on purpose. Drowning. Freezing. Setting himself on fire. Hell. There's a Reapertale Sans rp blog ( @jokingdeath ) that Arum went up to and was like "touch my hand and kill me"

He literally shook hands with death and it didn't kill him

And nights when he's attempted or wants to attempt, and knows it's all useless, and is just a sobbing mess

Tox is there for him

Here's the last two songs lol

Also both Skillet

Fire and Fury - Skillet (I realize this is a love song but platonically okay)

The Last Night - Skillet (not all of the lyrics fit but you get the gist of it)

Oh i fORGOT MY OTHER FAVE!

why isn't it on the youtube playlist how dare

wait there it is lol

Ok so this one, The Last Night, Rise, and Not Gonna Die are my top 4 for Tox

honestly I can't rank them they're just my top four

Fix You - The Offspring

She sees a million stars like holes in the sky

Arum has a far more bitter take on the surface world than Red does

all God's tears for her they cry, and I am in her rain

Arum is just

you think Red is in bad shape depression wise?

hAH

The difference is Arum puts up a far better "i don't give a fuck" front than Red

Arum laughs at his own pain far more. He makes death jokes and dead baby jokes

(His laugh is not sane anyway)

He kills mercilessly, without hesitation

With a smile on his face

(His smile is not sane either)

Gore makes Red vomit

it makes Arum grin

Red has at least a modicum of faith that they'll get out some day

Arum knows damn well he's never going to be free

Honestly they're both Underfell!Sans but they are vastly different

They were vastly different long before Frisk fell

And they had vastly different lives from the beginning

Arum's Gaster was a good man

Yes, he neglected Tox terribly, they both did

But Dros created them to be his children

As the last skeleton alive, and not interested in a romantic relationship, he created Arum and Tox in a similar fashion as how Erebus created Red and Boss, bot for the opposite reason

He also didn't fuck up with Arum

Red's physical body came out wrong

He formed too small, too frail

He always had 1 HP

Yes, it was in part due to his pessimism, but physically, his body can't hold much HP in the first place

If Red's HP were to rise (and it will) I think I'd cap him at 50

My 5 foot smol was born with the short end of the stick

slaps knee

short end

Boss was born with the long end slaps knee again

Boss's body was always too big

He couldn't control his magic properly and his body was pushed too far

which made him a very sickly child

but as an adult he evened it out with endless training

They're both on one end of an extreme

Whereas Arum and Tox were both quite average. They were evenly leveled, physically

Arum is 5'6", he's completely normal

He just happened to have inherited Dros's extreme intelligence

a fairly common thing in humans, genius can be hereditary

Meanwhile Tox... didn't

Boss was born with strength that he had to hone. Tox was born average and created his own extreme strength through willpower and desperation

Red was born with a too-strong mind that was further distended with experimentation, and had to hone and focus his intelligence once they escaped. It left him with so many emotional issues

Arum's inherited intelligence was carefully guided by his father and he was an average genius, also made extreme through willpower

All of his emotional issues are because of his fucked-up timeline 8,D

Ahhh I love designing characters

Red and Arum as as different from each other as they're both different from Chaos

who is also an Underfell!Sans

Who just happens to be female

and just happened to go insane and kill her entire timeline due to a certain brat :3c

BUT THAT'S RAMBLING FOR ANOTHER DAY

#Out of Skeleton #its just how i am now (headcanons)#precious poison (tox)#music #pretty as blood (aesthetic)#intoxicating (tox aesthetic)#tw: suicide #tw: abuse

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