#SJ would also not give a damn about SY

[the-girl-with-too-many-ideas]

One thing that I've never seen people talk about is that Shen Jiu would want his body back. Sure, it may be irreparablely damaged and weak, but it's still his body. He never had any bodily autonomy until he joined Cang Qiong at seventeen, so he would fight tooth and nail to get it back rather than lose the right to his body again.

[greeniegaes]

Screaming crying sobbing

Over a courtesan Shen Yuan.

Maybe he knew YQY and SJ when they were kids, maybe not. Either way SY ends up working at the warm red pavilion and ends up interacting with SJ

First it’s just small things, delivering tea for his jiejies, putting instruments back when they are done, dropping off various things.

Then he starts actually talking to SJ and SJ surprisingly doesn’t hate him just for being a guy (I’ve been thinking trans yuan here but also like cos yuan works, I this trans is funnier cause SJ is like ‘damn you CHOSE to be a man? L move bro’)

They start getting along more and more, working together on music SJ has to turn in for his peak, actually chatting comfortably, stuff like that. SJ realizes SY is an absolute monster freak and always tells him about the stuff he’s seen, long chats lounging on the same bed into the night.

Until one day YQY and LQG burst in.

SJ is instantly in protect mode, hissing and spitting at his sect siblings as SY groggily wakes up, watching them bicker. Eventually LQG says something along the lines of ‘well if you weren’t messing around we’d already be tracking down such and such beast’ to which SY perks up out of bed, quickly throwing on his clothes before anyone can so much as blink and is just

“Well let’s get going then.”

SJ quickly tries to stop the man, annoyed that his di would even entertain the thought of talking with LQG. SY though, does not give a fuck, throwing SJ a zither to use for musical cultivation, telling the jiejies bye and making them go out on their little adventure.

LQG and YQY are so confused, looking at this freaky little twink drooling over various things about monsters all the while SJ is giving them death glares and huffing.

YQY is extremely jealous watching SJ and this dude too, like bro! That’s his emotionally unavailable Shen! Get your own! He’s upset at how easily they get along, how SJ doesn’t care if his hand is pulled along or if SY tugs on him to whisper something. Anytime YQY had ever attempted such a thing SJ would pull or flinch away, making him stop

LQG meanwhile is just… confused. On one hand his moral code states that any courtesan isn’t a good person to be around. On the other hand this cute guy is getting excited over monster guts in a way he’s never seen before and it’s quiet fascinating to hear him do enough talking for the rest of the group.

I feel like eventually LQG and SJ are totally in love with SY and YQY is in love with SJ so they end up awkwardly paired together, all vying for another’s attention and stuff.

(If SY ever met airplane here he’d be so pissed by the way, chasing him around like a rhino and yelling about how he had to deal away with his pride (SY made the choice of going to the brothel, he doesn’t even do sex work though.) and the others just watch him like ‘wow, look at him acting so feral, kinda hot tbh)

[nyoomerr]

Thoughts on Qijiu (as a ship or just in general?). I feel like when YQY or, rarely, the original Shen Qingqiu show up in your fics, they're treated pretty sympathetically, but I'm curious to know more on how you feel about them.

i've never really made up my mind about qijiu, tbh. toxic doomed yaoi VS tragic brothers VS two people who went through something awful together and since then have changed so much as people that honestly they really would be better off without being anything to each other...

in part my general non-commitment to a particular stance on qijiu is probably just a result of my general ambivalence to the characters themselves ;; i'll put my opinions below the break, so that no one has to see my lukewarm sentiments if they're keen on these characters (especially sj!sqq)😅

i often write yqy in a favorable light since sy!sqq likes yqy, but personally i think he's just... fine. i can tell i'm supposed to feel bad for him, but honestly i don't have a lot of sympathy or understanding for someone who feels so horrible about their own self that they then decide to... let somebody else act and feel horrible? i think he's got nice older brother vibes, but the fact that he knew about sj!sqq's abuse of his disciples and didn't intervene kinda cuts into his image as the 'respectable' one, for me.

for sj!sqq... he's a very complicated character, and an interesting character to me because of it. however, i love binghe VERY much, and in the end i just can't actually like anyone who is cruel to him.

at the start of my time in fandom, my opinion of him was just that: "he's interesting, but i don't really care to think about him very much because he was very awful to the character that i DO want to think about a lot." and because i didn't care to think about him, i also didn't care to tackle how complicated his character is - i honestly very frequently just used him as a convenient plot point for binggeyuan without really caring if it was OOC for sj!sqq.

but over time, i've seen a lot of sj!sqq fans who try to wash him clean in ways that feel very weird... as if there is this need to have him proven innocent of every single one of the crimes he was accused of, just because some of them were proven to be misunderstandings. in particular, i've seen this theory that sj!sqq only dumped tea on lbh because the tea was medicinal (??) and it was how he could treat lbh for his injuries (??) without breaking his character (??)... and i've seen this several times, from multiple different people, and all treated very seriously -- this isn't just one person shouting at the sky with this idea.

i guess, as someone who loves bingge when he's soggy and loves him still when he's insane and violent and awful, beyond just feeling like the fandom often misrepresents sj!sqq for the sake of turning him "likeable," it also just feels a bit cheap and cowardly 😂 like, sure, by all means, love that man! but, please love him while also looking the fact that he abused lbh in the eye.

anyway, so i guess tldr: i think sj!sqq is very complicated, and more often than not i just don't care enough about him to represent that correctly, but sometimes i see a take so Weird that it makes my teeth itch. 'raised by winter winds' was more or less the culmination of all of those moments - me going, "okay, let's just for once give genuine care and attention to how i represent this character, since if i want to complain about other people's misrepresentations than i had damn well better make sure i'm not being so careless with my own characterizations."

u can u up, no can no bb, and all that.

to circle back to your original question with all that context: i'm generally ambivalent to both yqy and sj!sqq, so i'm also generally ambivalent to qijiu or what form it takes. there have been a couple fics where i find moments that i'm really invested in them, because i do think that sj!sqq is a complicated and interesting character, but it isn't something i seek out.

[zykamiliah]

Saw the Bingge vs Bingmei post and was starkly reminded of why I do not like Bingge, nor do I want him to get a SY of his own. Because his response to finding a kind SQQ who tended to his wounds and brushed his hair and cared for him, was to attempt to RAPE him. First by deception (because he damn well knew that SQQ was mistaking him for Bingmei), and when that was found out, by force. If Bingmei hadn’t returned there and then, he would’ve succeeded.

heeeeeey I've been meaning to answer this but I've been really busy lately

So! *takes the binghe brainrot out of her head, sets it on a box; puts the box in the freezer* Setting aside the fact that Bingge has indeed raped and dubcon-ed other people, as per Airplane's design, and that this has been so normalized it barely escapes Sqq's criticism until he's literally and confronted with Bingge's violence on a personal level... I think we should try to see the situation from his pov.

(Of course I'm not absolving him from his faults! But since we often offer SJ the courtesy of understanding where he comes from I think Bingge deserves the same)

Bingge is thrown into a parallel universe where the women he thinks of as his wives treat him with friendly but distant formality, where people that died in his timeline are alive, and the Shizun that tormented him, abused him and allowed others to bully him is caring in a way he's never known, and most of all a way that he'd never ever expect the original Shen Qingqiu to act. The same Shizun he took his revenge on already.

Later he reads Resentment of Chunchan, which iirc depicts Bingqiu in very kinky and dub-con situations. LMY's porn is hardcore guys. (not blaming her!) And I don't suppose he thought Binghqiu's relationship was exactly as depicted in RoC but it was a piece of the puzzle this strange Shizun posed. Ah, of course this version of his Shizun is nice to him, he's his lover. So he proceeds to act on this new knowledge.

I thinks this is because 1) this is the only way he knows about how to interact with people: they are either enemies, subordinates or those he can seduce into his harem(and by seduce I also mean rape, in the reasoning that he "making them "have a good time" will seduce them/make them "fall in love" with him, using whatever means he has at his disposal, which include deception and blood parasites); 2) this is his hateful shizun, or at least an alternate version of the same man and 3) [but not less important] Bingge has no moral code or compass to guide him in life during his formative years. All he knew was that the strong can bully the weak, that you can push down someone and have your way with them, because if you give them pleasure they'll eventually submit to you (thank you for that, Qin Wanyue) and that power is everything. His mother's teachings sadly were left behind, a consequence of all the abuse and violence he went through.

And even at the peak of his power, with riches and a harem and entire ream at his feet, he still is not happy. He's a cruel man with a cruel way of thinking and perceiving the world because it's the only thing he's known.

Bingmei would be the same as him if Shen Yuan hadn't transmigrated and educated him, if he hadn't give him a moral standard and values to follow (those of his caring shizun). He turns the Old Palace Master into a human stick and if you ask him he'll describe in vivid detail how he'd torture anyone who dared to touch a hair of his dear Shizun's head.

And since Bingge is no longer just a book protagonist and MXTX loves dishing karma to her characters, Bingge gets this: see all you've accomplished? It's worth nothing, because you have no one to love you and care for you the way those two (bingqiu) do for each other.

In an AU, i don't think he'd be able to get Shen Yuan to fall in love with him by coercing or manipulating him into a relationship. I love the ones where he's forced into introspection, forced to change at least some of his ways.

I don't have my mind made up about this topic 100%; sometimes I think Bingge is unforgivable, others he still deserves a chance to find love and happiness. Part of me thinks he doesn't want a Shen Yuan, but was struck with need at the idea of having a kind Shizun, something he was deprived off as a child and teen. If that's the case, what would attract him about Shen Yuan but the possibility of him being that Shizun? And another question: would Shen Yuan fall in love with Bingge once he gets to know him for real? Would he feel the same disconnect Sqq felt by the end of the novel?

what do you guys think? I'd love to read your thoughts :D

almost forgot! *takes the binghe brainrot out of the freezer* thank you anon! feel free to send a reply to my asks, I'd love to read your thoughts too ❤️

[touchmycoat]

qijiu bingqiu (bingliushen??) fix-it fic planning blabber

so i think i gotta keep it tight on SJ’s POV. Right before his death, he makes a deal with Xin Mo (who’s kind of a lone operator bc LBH too has to fight its power) to create this alternate timeline in exchange for his cultivation. Xin Mo can open up new dimensions no problem, and with SJ’s cultivation, it even manages to rewind the timeline. That’s not enough though—Xin Mo’s goal is only consumption, so it takes the deal but reveals there’s nothing that will actually change. The price SJ paid only opened the door.

But that’s fine, ‘cause SJ saw it coming. He also strikes another deal, this time with Death itself? Some sort of large cosmic force. The only thing he wants changed is Qi-ge’s death, and in exchange...the universe takes him. SJ will not get to exist in that second universe. SJ takes the deal.

And that’s the start of canon. SJ-as-SQQ can no longer exist. Instead, SY-as-SQQ is brought in. In order to stay cohered though, YQY’s memories and personality get a little glitched—he is physically incapable of recognizing all the ways SQQ is now not SJ. That’s why, despite SY-as-SQQ clearly being OOC, YQY never seems to see it.

Canon happens, now we’re in the post-canon world where bingqiu are married and settling down, but SQQ still kicks it with his buddies LQG and YQY every now and then. YQY still firmly believes SQQ is SJ, to SY’s increasing consternation. Is it just delusions and wishful thinking? The more YQY treats him as SJ though, the worse SY feels—he shouldn’t be stealing all this affection that doesn’t belong to him.

It all comes to head when SQQ overhears public opinion on YQY, how he’s perfect in everything but his crazy devotion to SQQ. SY thinks enough is enough. He can’t bring SJ back but he sure can tell YQY that his Xiao Jiu is dead, right? The System warns him he’ll be punished but that’s fine, it’s just not fair, SQQ can take another little mental horror trip down to BinggeLand if it means YQY can have some closure.

Except that’s not what happens. He gets YQY in private and says, “no, you don’t understand, Shen Jiu is dead.” He sees the recognition in YQY’s eyes, but he also sees the moment that recognition gets wiped. The sad smile that had fallen off of YQY’s face returns, eerily happy, as YQY says, “my apologies, Qingqiu-shidi, I must have spaced out just now, what did you say?”

Right before the System kicks him into another punishment phase, SY tries again: “Shen Jiu is dead!” He sees the recognition disappear once again from YQY’s eyes.

Inside the punishment world, Bingge has him again. “I’ve been searching for an answer to why the sniveling pathetic version of me gets you as his Shizun, and I think I figured it out.” For a moment, SY’s horrified by the possibility that Bingge has figured out his transmigrator status—if his punishment figures it out, would he be trapped inside the punishment forever? But instead, Bingge says, “Liu Qingge is still alive, meaning Shizun didn’t kill him in the spirit caves. Did his survival render such a dramatic change?” SQQ”s like “yup, yup that’s definitely it. We’re such good friends, he really changed my outlook on life, so I treated you better, mhm.”

“Shizun’s very clever then to save his own life this way. Xin Mo’s already told me about your little bargain.”

That’s how SY learns that SJ had made a deal. Holy shit, he’d thought it was just random phenomenon this whole time, but the original goods had made it all possible? He didn’t know whether to thank SJ or curse him.

But that can’t be the whole story—Xin Mo opened up a timeline, that doesn’t explain why SY is here. Bingge doesn’t know this part, but it sure feels like SJ made a second deal, paying with his life.

What would motivate the original goods to do all this? Sacrifice his hard-won cultivation and his entire existence in this last-ditch effort?

The memory of YQY’s glitching came to mind.

Holy shit. SY owns the two of them more than he’d ever thought.

After the punishment, SY goes back home. He’s with Binghe, and LBH can tell there’s something troubling him.

“Binghe, there’s something this husband wants to do, and I need your help to do it.”

“Shizun, anything.”

“...But there’s a risk it might hurt you. There’s a risk it might ruin everything. It might be straight-forward, but it also might not be. It’s safer for all of us—but especially you, Binghe—if I just let things be.”

“But it’s not something that Shizun can just let be, is it? Otherwise Shizun wouldn’t have said anything. Binghe is honored to help. Anything to ease Shizun’s mind.”

“...I promised I wouldn’t let you come to harm again, and I meant that. Whatever happens, remember that I am your husband, this is my call, and you must do whatever you need to do to protect yourself, okay? Swear to me, Binghe.”

SQQ begins figuring out how to use Xin Mo to go fetch SJ from the other timeline. He figures that if Bingge could exist in this dimension without destroying the space-time continuum, the same ought to be true for SJ. Only trouble is, he can only go get SJ after SJ’s made the deals, because otherwise it’s a paradox, and he wouldn’t exist.

So SQQ brings home limbless, post-torture!SJ. That’s where the fic starts.

By all accounts, the deals are squared: SJ no longer has cultivation and SJ died in SY’s dimension, so SY successfully exists. SJ and SY can exist in the same space totally fine, and SJ begins healing.

(Currently, the fic is completely from SJ’s POV, and very much about coming to terms with being saved and what the hell is going on in this better world.)

The trouble is, SY doesn’t know what’s going to happen when SJ meets YQY again. SJ very thoroughly declines the offer to go see YQY because part of SJ still believes this whole thing is a trick, and if he goes to see YQY he’ll ruin his end of the bargain and YQY will die again. For SY’s part, he’s afraid of SJ going to see YQY too for similar but opposite reasons—if SJ going to see YQY ruins SJ’s end of the bargain, then wouldn’t that mean SY can no longer exist? Would SY just disappear from this universe?

So we get ragtag group therapy fun times. SJ thinks this is probably all an illusion Xin Mo is tricking him with, so treats everything with scorn but also existential apathy. This actually works to his benefit because he’s not clinging to things as hard, and it’s easier for him to admit, for example, that he was definitely in the wrong for abusing LBH, and yeah he was being a spiteful bitch when he did not need to be.

SY tries to keep LBH away from SJ mostly, because c’mon, he’s not about to make his darling husband face his childhood abuser. He does explain the situation to LBH though, in the same terms that Bingge had (mis)understood it lmfao—that the act of saving LQG’s life had prompted an entire 180 on his personality so he came out of the spirit caves a better man. LBH’s jealous as fuck of course, but damn if that doesn’t explain some things. Given the opportunity to see his old and new Shizun side-by-side, LBH takes it, and really gets a moment to see how horribly he’s been treated by SQQ.

So it actually prompts some therapy between SY and LBH too. LBH used to figure that getting pushed into the Abyss was squared by SQQ sacrificing himself to save him. But ofc it turned out SQQ came back and kept on, in his perspective, trying to get away from him. Trying to leave him behind. SQQ’s tried to treat his abandonment issues by going “okay sorry about that I’ll never leave you behind again” but he’s never really explained it.

SJ’s presence gives Binghe the ability to ask the question again and gives SY an answer: shame and cowardice. They’re able to put SJ’s mistreatment of Binghe right in front of them and SY-as-SQQ gets to explain how much it hurt to look back on that bit of their past, but also how much he feared LBH's retaliation. LBH is a little hurt, but also he remembers how he’d raped SQQ under Xin Mo’s control and, looking at what’s left of SJ now, he sees his own darkest possibilities. He really did destroy the man he loves now in another timeline. That helps him contextualize SY’s fears and why SY chose to push him off the cliff.

LQG crashlands into the middle of this whole party as is his wont. He gets a little fix-it too maybe. SY very staunchly repeats the reason for his personality swap—saving LQG in that cave made him a Better Person™. Meeting the original goods again, LQG is forced to believe it. Or like, it doesn’t really matter to him either way, but now he really does see pre-cave SQQ and post-cave SQQ as two completely different people.

SJ though, has to swallow this really weird pill. He remembers trying to save LQG inside the cave but failing, and then getting blamed for LQG’s death. If he’d succeeded, he and LQG would’ve become...this close?? A life debt between them would’ve changed his outlook on life so much???

Well whatever. Now that he’s put down all his old posturing, he more readily gives his reasons for why LQG gets on his nerves so much: the insufferable confidence (arrogant prick), the skills to back it up (privileged bastard), and a flawless cultivator family with all the money and the training and the pedigree. (Meanwhile SY’s like “oh shit that’s me too hahahahah awkward, good thing he still thinks i’m him so he doesn’t just murder me immediately.)

LQG’s a little weirded out too. SY-as-SQQ is his favorite person in the world, so it’s hard to get angry at SJ-as-SQQ since they’re “the same person.” He’s more willing to talk all this out with SJ and brings up all their old beef on his side too: high-handed snootiness coupled with underhanded dick moves, also the whole sleeping-with-prostitutes thing hurting Cang Qiong’s reputation. Ofc they’re snapping at each other this whole time. “There’s no reason for you to do all that!”

SY intervenes if needed. “Actually there is.” Considering the fact that SJ gets indicted for so many things that actually turn out to be not his fault, SY figures he’ll just get it out there. “Remember Qiu Haitang’s accusations against me? I grew up a slave in that household. I grew up believing it was kill or be killed—it doesn’t make sabotaging others right, but...that’s why the Spirit Caves made such an impression on me. I learned it wasn’t just kill or be killed, I can also save people. It opened my eyes to everything I already had, and everything I should be grateful for.”

This is for both LQG and SJ. And it works, to some degree. SJ knows he managed to claw to the top of privilege, but he still felt horribly insecure there. That’s because, he realizes, he never got the thing that would actually grant him security. It's not power or money or reputation—it’s Qi-ge. Holy hell he misses Qi-ge. In anger and betrayal, he’d pushed YQY continuously out of his life, but when faced with certain death the only regret he actually had was bringing Qi-ge down with him. YQY was meant to have survived, and in this world, he did.

So now, after all that, SJ really, really wants to go see his Qi-ge. It’s nice to have survived (and gotten part of his power back—at the very beginning, SY gives one of SQQ’s eyes to SJ as a bit of his golden core in order to save SJ’s life), but it’s so damn hard to live on in this world knowing YQY is only so far away, still very deeply attached to Xiao Jiu.

They try to Cyrano it at first. SY-as-SQQ goes to YQY with SJ’s voice in his ear, telling SY how to treat YQY as him. YQY is so fucking touched and hopeful, and SY is damn uncomfortable. He goes running back to SJ and says it’s not going to work—it’s not going to work because he’s no longer Qi-ge’s Xiao Jiu. He’s Luo Binghe’s husband, okay? He can’t go back to YQY as SJ.

SJ’s fucking furious at first (what kind of shitty variation of himself saves LQG’s life and then falls out of love with Qi-ge???? bitch?????) but what can he do? LQG tells them YQY’s on his way here and SJ hides for now. They still don’t know what will happen if SJ meets YQY, so SY continues to front as SJ for now.

But during this conversation, something changes. Maybe YQY says something, but SJ realizes he’s actually a little willing to take this chance. If Qi-ge does disappear—easy, he’d just kill himself right after. He’d already experienced Qi-ge’s death twice before, and at least this time, he can follow, knowing he’s at least reconciled with Qi-ge through SY.

And if he disappears on his own, then at least he knows there’s a world in which Qi-ge does not die horribly. That’s enough for him.

That, however, leaves the very last possibility—that SY will disappear. At this point both LQG and LBH have figured this out, and are very, very reluctant to let this be the scenario. They don’t see it as two people, they see it as their version of SQQ vs. YQY’s version of SQQ.

So there’s a little tension, but in the end, SY gets the final choice. As soon as he learns SJ is willing to go see YQY, he chooses that path. He simply owes qijiu too much to deny them the possibility of reconciliation. So despite knowing he might disappear from Binghe and LQG’s life, he makes it happen.

(They should get a very painful goodbye scene.)

SY goes out to explain things. “Zhangmen-shixiong may have noticed my change since my qi deviation and the spirit caves.” “I’m happy Xiao Jiu has a brighter outlook on life.” “Yes, but I think Qi-ge, of all people, might actually prefer how I was before, right?” “If Xiao Jiu’s happy, I’m happy.” “Yes, but Shen Jiu wants you. Is that alright?” “—of course. I want Xiao Jiu too—”

SJ comes out. Everyone holds their breath.

Scene cut.

It’s said that Cang Qiong’s Sect Leader Yue Qingyuan disappeared suddenly one afternoon...

But jk, YQY just ran away with SJ, they’re recuperating in the mountains and everybody’s fine and it’s a happy ending.