#Ovid more like dumb

[enn-dio]

Fuck Ovid, all my homies hate Ovids stupid ass versions of the myths

Poseidon didn't assault Medusa she was born a gorgon.

Poseidon didn't assault Medusa she was born a gorgon.

Poseidon didn't assault Medusa she was born a gorgon.

Poseidon didn't assault Medusa she was born a gorgon.

Read the Hymns. Read the texts. Read the epics. But PLEASE do not believe the continued spread of misinformation from tiktok and people who only get their information from other people.

[littlesparklight]

If you add up the number of daughters Tyndareos and Leda can have, you end up with five; Helen and Klytaimnestra, Phylonoe, Timandra and Phoebe.

The first four are mentioned in some of our earliest sources (the Iliad and Odyssey, the Catalogue of Women/Great Ehoiai), Phoebe earliest in Iphigenia in Aulis, I think.

Phoebe is basically only a name - I'm not sure she is ever even given a husband? Which is curious. She is There, that's all there is to her. In Ovid's Heroides 8 (Hermione's letter to Orestes), she's even still at home to be distraught over Helen's disappearance, the only of the sisters so mentioned. (Younger than the rest, perhaps? Or for some reason just not married off?) Phylonoe has no husband either, but that's because - for whatever reason - Artemis has her immortalized; the fragments are too fragmentary to say anything else, aside from that Phylonoe was beautiful like the goddesses. Certainly a more illustrious position to be in than her sister.

In comparison to these two, the three left are all joined by one thing; adultery.

Both Stesichoros and the Catalogue/Great Ehoiai (it's unsure where the fragment belongs) specify Aphrodite having some hand in this but also use words as "left" and "shamed the bed". In Stesichoros Tyndareos has forgotten to sacrifice to Aphrodite; in the C/GE the surviving fragment doesn't give us a reason, merely that Aphrodite was angry/jealous/indignant upon seeing them.

The rest of this is going to assume wilful action on Helen, Klytaimnestra and Timandra's parts, because it's more interesting for the thoughts I'm having. Whatever Aphrodite did (stir up desire, "merely" supply opportunity and target) each sister acted on her own (desire), and that's what counts.

Klytaimnestra would obviously be the last to commit adultery and marry her new partner - is Helen or Timandra first? How much time is there between those first two - does either Helen or Timandra have the opportunity to think about what her sister did, form some judgement or opinion on it before she is next to be put in a similar situation?

Support and understanding, for the unfair standards and expectations set on women they all have to live under? Scorn, for being "weak", for failing to do what a woman ought?

Those different possibilities of course apply to both Phoebe and Klytaimnestra too - how do they look at their sisters in the wake of breaking all social mores and expectations, what do they feel about it? In the end only Phoebe will be left - does she cling all the more tightly to behave as a perfect woman, unassailable in her chastity? Is that why she has no husband to her name - and is it willing or unwilling, no man wishing to venture for marriage with yet another Tyndarid, because look at the other two/three?

Klytaimnestra being the last of them has the most deliberate action behind hers, I think. She has her sisters adulteries to look back on, knowing what it has given them (has she judged herself?), yet, she still takes Aigisthos to her bed, and I don't think it would just be as another way to revenge herself on Agamemnon. Presumably she does desire him, too.

(... Helen and Klytaimnestra sort of sharing part of what they like in men, both being into effeminate men...)

And, setting aside the way they each might judge (or not judge) each other first, all three of them, knowing each other well, each take desire in hand and decides to act on what they want. It's not what they should do, not what women are allowed to do, but they do it. There were five of them in that family (depending on how much age difference there is between them), able to share ideas and opinions.

Did they all at some point agree that the expectations were dumb and unfair? Did Phoebe - the youngest or just the one who is left behind by her more illustrious, outrageous, sisters, always cling to the expectations, agreeing with them?

Is she just sitting somewhere, afraid of when this sort of desire for more, for too much, will come for her too?

(And then it never does.)

[alatismeni-theitsa]

We do really need more Perseus & Medusa retellings where Medusa is the youngest of an important sea monsters family, a proud Monster Girl cursed with mortality and protected by all of her family: her Gorgon sisters, the Graeae, etc. And also she is Poseidon's beloved Monster Concubine, always ready to support her man in his silly feud with Athena; and Medusa should also be portrayed as a true menace to humans; taking all of this into account when writing would make of her a complex, interesting characters; mucho more interesting than the lonely mortal girl raped by one god and punished by another; this narrative is overused, it is inconsistent with the rest of Perseus' story and the Greek Canon, it is sold as something it is not (it's not the Ancient / accurate / "true" version, it is not even a Greek version LOL) and I really feel we should give other versions of Medusa a voice, not only those rooted in #MeToo and Ovid.

This type of story would be indeed more interesting and deep than what is popular today. From beginning to end, it makes sense if one considers our myths.

Sure, we need stories inspired by the #MeToo movement and one can even...base their writing on Ovid (😢). But many Anglophone authors nowadays, in their passionate attempt to protect SA victims don't double-check, and end up doing also some harm. (Like straight-up slandering national heroes of a foreign culture which leads to actual Greeks being berated online and being seen as savages for having and admiring this hero) "Western feminism" one can call it since the entitlement over the Greek myths doesn't stop to the US WASPs.

Also these writers are writing so much about SA as if they're the first people who ever thought about the hidden emotions of those figures. Honnneyyss the Greek culture has existed for more than 2.500 years I'm SURE someone thought of it. We are not dumb or uncreative as a people, thanks.

I also feel that because countries outside the US have a huge influx of US media, the way/expression/narrative of local victims when discussing SA will slowly fade. For example, in a few years, we Greeks might read old Greek narratives from SA victims or about SA and not feel for the victims. Or worse, we will never consider checking these stories cause the US industry is feeding us SA stories all the time and because the language will be foreign to us and might disgust us. There might be a disconnect between generations and the older SA victims might be accused of "wrong language" to describe their experiences if it's not cookie-cutter USAmerican "female rage".

[lewis-winters]

I was reading your Orpheus and Eurydice AUs for the BoB ship again and I was thinking, ya know, the only popular couple who can succeed at this is either Speirton or Ack-ack/Hillbilly. What do you think?

the Orpheus/Eurydice AU's for those who haven't seen it

I mean... I guess? but if they do succeed it wouldn't be Orpheus and Eurydice, ya know? like. because the point of Orpheus/Eurydice is that Orpheus turns around and will ALWAYS turn around, no matter what. because he Loves Eurydice. Turning Around is an act so engrained in Love that to Not Turn Around is more damning.

simply put: "Eurydice, dying now a second time, uttered no complaint against her husband. What was there to complain of, but that she had been loved?" -Ovid, Metamorphosis

in the post i made, I titled it: "bob ships as orpheus and eurydice, and whether or not they'd turn around and why" and you'll notice that i always reiterated, in both the tags of the original post and in the reblog, that the answer is always going to be Yes, they ALL turn around. because they Love each other. it is always guaranteed that they will Turn Around. hence, the real question i was trying to raise with that AU wasn't "will they succeed?" it was always "WHAT will make them turn around?"

because while the Love is consistent, how these couples might love each other is totally unique to them. for winnix, their love was always marred with doubt, and in order to soothe that doubt, they must always Turn Around. for baberoe, their love was always a yearning to help the other and a yearning to simply be around each other, something they must Turn Around to accomplish. for webgott, their love consists of validating each other, always answering back when one speaks into nothingness, and to do that, they must Turn Around. for luztoye, their love means they gave each other strength and help when they would otherwise never ask it from anyone else. again, they must Turn Around to do that.

Speirton and AndyEddie are no different. under the cut tho, bc it got long:

gonna be real, i already wrote a Speirton version of the orpheus and eurydice au that played massively with Speirs being a Dead Thing From the Beginning ("accept the fact that you're already dead") and Lip Understanding This more than Speirs ever thought he could and that being the reason for Turning Around. I also snuck in references to the parable of the Scorpion and the Frog crossing the river with speirs and lip taking turns being the Scorpion and the frog. not to toot my own horn but I thought it was clever. I just never HAHAHAH i never posted it bc I didn't think anybody would want to read it. but if you do! just ask, and I'll dig thru my sticky notes app for it. it's actually a little happier than the other ones, mostly because i imagine them both being very comfortable in hell. Speirton, to me, are like. a Freak4Freak couple, ya know? there is something fundamentally Wrong with both of them. I played heavily with that in their version.

as for AndyEddie though like. they already ARE orpheus and eurydice? Orpheus and Eurydice's story, at its core, is a metaphor for grief. Orpheus turns around because grief will ALWAYS make you look back at the past, at what you once had. Eddie died before Andy did. and then Andy died. and the general consensus in the AndyEddie fanon is that Andy dying was directly correlated to his grief over Eddie's own Death. Andy let the the grief so consume him, try as he might to go forward for his men, that he's so distracted by Eddie's ghost/the absence of Eddie (i.e. ghost as concrete absence instead of ethereal presence) he makes the fatal mistake of missing the sniper. an action we could read into as his Turning Around Moment. literally. i've read enough AndyEddie fics to know that in general fanon/fics Andy, moments before his own death, is often depicted either turning bc he was so used to Eddie being at his side and was going to speak to him, before being struck dumb by his loss all over again enough to become an open target; or because he thought he saw Eddie in the corner of his eye and, in his deep grief, threw all logic away to catch one last glimpse of him, making him an open target. either way, that split second reaction, so clouded in grief, is what gets him killed in the end. if it's not either of these two, it's always some sort of iteration of Andy's grief over Eddie's death Dooming Him.

the way they died in The Pacific already had the same narrative beats as Orpheus and Eurydice's story. that's why if I ever were to find myself writing a The Pacific version of the Orpheus and Eurydice AUs, I won't need to write anything for AndyEddie because... well. it's ALREADY their story, ya know? they are their own orpheus and eurydice.

anyway. read this whole thing again but this time I want you to read ever mention of Turn Around the same way its sung in Total Eclipse of the Heart.

[theriverpointace]

1, 6 and 12 for that choose violence ask game ;)

1. the character everyone gets wrong. if i hear one more person blame paris for the trojan war i cannot be held responsible for my actions. admittedly this has gotten better since i started (a) reading more and (b) interacting with the (very few) paris-lovers of tumblr <3

6. which ship fans are the most annoying? mmm that's tough. and also colored by my aromantic way of reading old literature. i really don't like enjoltaire (from les mis). i don't understand why it's so popular. but everyone else loves it!!! so much!!! please help me. (also i read enjolras as aroace bc I'M aroace, so. there is that, too. tbh i think this one's on me but still.)

12. the unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them. my friend do you even have to ask???? you KNOW the answer to this!!! it's paris of troy ofc it's paris of mother-flipping troy. and as to why ... listen if you can read paris in anything (except for frigging DICTYS u g h) and not see how silly and dumb he is ... then i am so sorry (i am choosing violence) but you must be blind!! he's just a guy!!!! he keeps getting put in Situations!! and through all of these Situations he either stays bright and cheerful and positive (like when hector insults him in the iliad) or he starts crying (like in ovid's version of the judgement in heroides 16). like that's so relatable. anyways i like how this one connects to the first one. he is unpopular bc everyone gets him wrong. listen i love hector as much as the next guy here but he is Mean To His Siblings okay. he loves his family, he would (did) die for andromache and scamandrius, but he is a Mean Brother. personally this does not detract from his charm bc i am a Mean Sister so yk. i can relate. and also i think he probably doesn't understand (or like) the reasons paris has to do anything he does. but paris does have his reasons and unlike hector i DO understand and like and appreciate those reasons. please people i love paris so much he does not deserve the hate.

[shadowmasterthirteen]

Spoilers for season 1 and probably all the percy jackson books

I think it needed a little more time. I'm not sure if 8 episodes was budget or the age of the actors (budget but different) or what but most of my complaints are moments that needed more time to breathe.

#1 gabe. I don't think gabe's abusive control of Sally and Percy is explicit enough. I've seen enough people who thought he wasn't abusive anymore because he didn't hit Sally to feel confident on that. Given that it is still murder I think his controlling behaviour in opening Percy's mail is a great way for him to die.

#2 they instantly know everything. This comes down to a handful of moments for me. Medusa (I don't like leaning further into the Ovid version especially since as a kids show they don't actually have Medusa be assaulted [not that I want that version]) makes sense to me. Statues + Auntie Em is obvious and it even works that annabeth kind infodumps at that point in the journey. I miss the moment of their dyslexia coming into play (maybe have grover read it for them and then let Annabeth make the connection) but otherwise it's very dumb for them not to connect someone as famous as Medusa to that whole situation.

Next the lotus casino. I think this works fine. Really they maybe should have figured it out before standing in front of the doors, they'd had a while in the truck to have made that connection and the twist is still good. Although I wish we had actually seen Hermes tell them about it because it was weird to have Annabeth say it. Felt like the show was lying to me about the scene that had just happened

Now the two big ones. Procrustes and Chronos. As a viewer we don't get the information needed to make these connections so percy just having it all feels like an asspull. He's smart but it just needed time for us to see him put it together. I'd also really have liked to see Procrustes have more time to lay the ground with the does my dad like me stuff that I hope we'll see in later seasons. But as it is I'd prefer I'd they had gone straight into the underworld and shipped the scene.

#3 Annabeth and Grover don't really state their desire to see their dad/ get a seeker's license in the season but this happens and Percy seems excited for them. Really could have used those moments.

#? I know the zebra is gone because cgi but don't keep that chapter title for the episode then

In conclusion the show is so close to being perfect and I think an extra 30m would have let the pacing breath. For a really episodic book it's a shame that the series didn't quite get there.

[partiallochnest]

Lore Olympus rant because it's horrible and so mythology inaccurate

Lore Olympus as a plot is so fucking dumb

I know someone is going to say something like "Oh BuT LoRe OlYmPUS iSn't sUpOsEd tO Be MyThOlogy aCcuRate"

WELL IF IT WASN'T MYTHOLOGY-ACCURATE THEN WHAT'S THE POINT OF MAKING A WEBTOON ABOUT GREEK MYTHOLOGY!

I'M MAKING A GREEK MYTHOLOGY WEBTOON AS WELL AND IT'S NOT THAT HARD!

Here are some of my least favorite inaccuracies

-For some dumbfuck of a reason a lot of people have been saying Hades and Persephone are so happy and noncreepy because she willingly went to the underworld- WRONG! The version where she willingly went to the underworld was written in 1949 and the Author didn't want to explain assault to her 5-year-old daughter. In both Greek and Roman times she was written and drawn as sobbing, and in several hymns, it was said that you could hear her cries from the underworld. It's kind of like Medusa, it's ok to care more about the assault version, but everything before Ovid's Metamorphosis stated that she was born a Gorgan. Just please know the original sources.

-Made Apollo the fuck villain, even though in actual myths Helios was the sun god AND Apollo and Persphone have no myths together. AND Apollo is such a cardboard cutout villain, yes while I get he was an incel and pos in actual myths, MAKE PERSHPONE BEFRIEND HIS VICTIMS THEN LEARN ABOUT HOW MUCH HE SUCKS! IT'LL BE MORE INTERESTING AND MAKE IT CREATE TENSION BECAUSE NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE PERSHPONE AND HER FRIENDS AND HE CAN BECOME A BIGGER AND BIGGER PROBLEM!

ALSO HOW HERMES SHOULD'VE BEEN IN VILLAIN BECAUSE IN TZETZES' SCHOLIA IT IS RECORDED DOWN HOW HE ONCE TRIED TO ASSAULT PERSEPHONE BUT SHE ANGRILY YELLED SO LOUD THAT HE RAN AWAY!

AND FUCKING THE AROACE ERASURE ANNOYS ME SO MUCH! SHE MADE ATHENA GET WITH HESTIA! Nothing wrong with wlw ships, BUT ATHENA IN SEVERAL INSTANCES IS SO AROACE THAT THE WORD PARTHENON LEGIT MEANS VIGIN!

AND HOW PERSHPONE WHO IS CANONLY 19 AND PART OF THE VIRGIN THING AND WAS STILL OVERSEXULIZED BY SEVERAL FUCKING PEOPLE

AND HOW HADES WAS EMOTIONALLY CHEATING ON HIS GF LIKE BRO I GET SHE SUCKS BUT FUCKING WHAT? AND ALSO FLIRTING WITH HERA RIGHT IN FRONT OF PERSEPHONE!

[whatdoesshedotothem]

x Monday 24 December 1832

8 10

10 50

very fine morning ground whitish with frost F48 ½° at 8 10 am incurred a cross just before getting up thinking of Miss W- exactly as if she had been my regular mistress   respect for her is quite gone in those matters at least   what can I think of her better? mused first time on sending her anonymously from Bradford or London Ovid’s Art of Love Mr Jeremiah Rawson came at 9 5 kept him waiting 10 minutes and went down at 9 ¼ and had him ¼ hour or 20 minutes - had the coal plan - he thought they could not get 10 acres - I made sure of it, for Hinscliffe could get about 3 acres all which JR- agreed to take (not to pay for what may have been stole and got before) and seemed persuaded of getting 7 acres more - not to go lower the Wakefield read upper wall - I said 10 acres should be stated in the agreement but that if they really could not get so much with the present loose, I would not, of course, insist upon their paying for so much - it was not my intention to take any unfair advantage of  anyone - he said I might now send down into their works whenever I liked - still maintained the coal would cost them getting 6d. a corve and there would only be 4 corves per square yard - said the collier ought to have as much as the landlord i.e. Messrs. R- and I ought to divide equally the profit - all the terms before proposed agreed to, I conclude, as no objection which made [to]

 SH:7/ML/E/15/0169

 thus has ended this tiresome business tho’ I shall not feel myself secure from pother till all is signed and sealed Mr R- said Holt had the coal was not worth more than £160 per acre - ‘did you hear him say so?’ ‘no!’ ‘then I don’t believe he said any such thing’  Mr R- said he was never beaten but by ladies and I had beaten him   said gravely I it is the intellectual part of us that makes a bargain and that has no sex or ought to have none – Washington was waiting for me – Gave me his own bill, and all the bills for the mystal at Southholm and other work done yet unpaid for, at Dumb mill etc – told him to come the day after the rent day, and I would pay him the balance of £52.12.6 – spoke to him of the stewardship concern – limiting it to the landed property, saying I meant Mr. Parker to have the personalty matters – told W- to think about it, and consider what percentage he would require – breakfast with my aunt at 10 40 in ¾ hour – wrote all but the 1st 3 ½ lines of today till 11 50 – off to H- at 12 ¼ - Washington gave me check on the bank – ‘Leeds and Whitehall turnpike Road no. ------- H-x 8th December 1832. Messrs. J.W. and C. Rawson and co. Bankers H-x Pay Miss Lister or bearer five pounds 2/. for one hundred and two yards of stone – which place to account of John Waterhouse Emmanuel Emmet, and Thomas Teale. John Waterhouse  £5.2.....’ - - down the o.b. to Mr. Parkers’ to send him the trust deed to look at respecting Mr. Firths’ money – should be glad to throw the money into chancery – asked if I could have (supposing I did this and bought Godley) £4000 at 4p.c. on bond – wanted 4 ¼ p.c. – no! – well then on my bond, could get me the money – had it to dispose of for Mr. John Daniel Dyson. then mentioned my intention of making him my agent for the personalties and Northgate rent to the amount of 6 or 7 hundred a year – making him at the same time a handsome speech – asked him the percentage – thought he on my uncles’ death in naming the subject said 1 ½ p.c. did not remember but thought he had – yet what I mentioned would be no trouble – he would do it on my own terms – behaved very handsomely – said I should merely give Washington (as I had told him (W-) the rents of the farms to receive and pew-rents – Mr. P- would take the coal concern, and settle with Holt – and tho’ did not say so, mean him to pay my aunt – Mr. P- said in respect to the Godley road meeting that as to Mr. Waterhouse whom we had expected to do all for us, were better without him - Stocks and Emmet and 1 or 2 others of that set made no difficulty in giving me the order about plating the East side of the embankment, and would make no difficulty about anything else, only did not like building me a boundary wall – they had not done it for Emmett but I might make all the ground in as soon as I liked – mentioned the 360 yards of scale and 140 good grass land I was to pay £10 for – P- said they had forgotten all that – I might take it in, and do as I liked – said I would write a note to Stocks to say that I understood from P- and that I meant to wall of the ground immediately – then went to the bank – the navigation dividend not paid – perhaps would be next Saturday – gave in to be placed to my account the check (vid. line 11) to be placed to my account, and get order on a sheet of letter paper, as before, for £12.10, payable on demand on Carr Glyn, and co. and wrote a few lines saying I would not inconvenience Miss Bolland by keeping her waiting for her money, but begged she would send me her mothers’ address as soon, as she could – wafered and left my letter at the bank (to be sent by them) to ‘Miss Bolland at ‘Mr. Grahams’, Surgeon, 17 high street Stockport Cheshire’ Mr. Rawson just came in before I had finished my letter – looked grave or crossed – a mere civil how-do-you-do on both sides – not a word about coals – called at the Saltmarshes’ – Mrs. S- very poorly but particularly engaged with Miss Somebody – hoped to have the pleasure of seeing her some other time – then about 1 ½ went to call on Mr. and Mrs. Holmes to thank them for their very civil message by my sister about Godley – he was out shooting but she at home – apparently very much pleased at my visit and kept me talking and seeing her house near an hour – thanked her for their civility about Godley and congratulated her on being so comfortably fixed and making so many improvements – laying out 3 or 4 hundred pounds – the white marble chimney piece Mrs. Walker brought from Italy cost £60 there – in very chaste and neat style – Mrs. H- looked perfectly astonished when I told her, in confidence, Carr had asked me £3586 for Godley – sure Mr. Holmes would do anything he could for me about it – he would not like me to give more than £2000 for it – he and Mitchell very good friends – would manage the thing together – then went to Wellhead for an hour (till 4) – tête-à-tête with Mrs. Waterhouse after the 1st few minutes that Mrs. Musgrave and her sister were there – very civil and good friends as usual – mentioned, en amie, the report I had heard of Miss (Ann) Waterhouses’ putting herself into passions with her tradespeople – yes! it was a pity – want of tact rather than of good heart – up the o.b. and turned along by Bird-cage and got into the Godley road and thence by the Lower brea breach road – (saw nobody at the stubbing in Wellroyde brow – no Pickles) to Lidgate in ¾ hour at 4 ¾ - Miss W- was at her door just returned from distributing things at the school - very glad to see me – asked if I had got her note - no! had come direct from H-x - had been miserable ever since she had sent it it was to beg me not to come again till she had had her sister’s letter Miss W- asked me to stay all night - refused at first -  then consented – wrote a little note to my aunt and sent it off by Miss W-‘s servant to say that I was staying all night and not to expect till her breakfast time 10 or 11 tomorrow - dinner at 6 - then tea - cheerful chitchat - Miss W- read prayers and went upstairs at 10 10  - damp small rainy day

[alieneye]

I know I'm supposed to write a poem on Thursdays, but I don't like rules. So i'm stretching the definition of poetry, and here's my answers to the Quaestiones Praevostii (because Proust's Questionnaire is too basic):

What is your favourite god or goddess, and why? (Explain your choice carefully or suffer the consequences)

Fabilinus. You don’t know about him, but you should. He’s the god of the first words said by little kids. He just asks for one offering, and doesn’t try to kill or harm anyone, just a nice little god with a cool name (certainly better than his friend Vaticanus, the god of a baby’s first cry - and yes, that's what the Romans would think about if you told them about the Vaticanus).

What virtue do you most admire in a Roman citizen?

Constantia I guess. I need more calm people in my life.

Which is your preferred festival?

I don’t like festivals. But if I had to pick one, maybe the Compitalia. Doesn’t happen at a fixed date, just when we feel like it. And there’s that touching tradition of hanging wooden dolls at crossroads and house doors, one for each family member. Also offering honey cakes to the Lares (that will absolutely not end up in the paterfamilias’ stomach). And it was a bit of a goth festival honouring infernal deities, so that’s cool.

If you could command any legion, which one would it be, and where would you lead it?

I’m about as excited about commanding legions as Ovid was about being exiled.

What is the most memorable curse you've ever witnessed or feared?

Romans Inscriptions in Britain 154:

May he who carried off Vilbia from me become as liquid as water. (May) she who obscenely devoured her (become) dumb, whether Velvinna, Exsupereus, Verianus, Severinus, A(u)gustalis, Comitianus, Catus, Minianus, Germanilla (or) Jovina.

For some reason the curse of dissolving into water stayed with me (maybe it was because of that scene in the X-Men movie that I saw around the same time?), and also the very long and detailed list of possible culprits, which I think is hilarious.

What flaw do you most tolerate in a fellow Roman?

Overthinking.

Which dish or delicacy can you simply not live without?

Bread-honey-cheese. Alas I’ve been cursed with lactose intolerance and can’t eat too much gluten. I can't live without what hurts me. I should write a little poem about that one day.

What is your favourite spot in the Empire to visit?

I would like to visit Pergamon. Not the most famous, but it was the city of theatre, it had a library that could rival with Alexandria, and it must have had a beautiful, slightly mountainous landscape.

If you were given a triumph, what would your chariot’s most outrageous decoration be?

I love the few Roman masterpieces made of glass that survived to this day (Lycurgus cup etc), so something like that.

Who is your favourite poet, and what is your favourite line of theirs?

He’s not my favourite poet but I need to write a line, so here we go: Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit, (Virgil, Aeneid) Maybe remembering these memories one day will bring pleasure. I don't think I have favourites but at the moment that's the line I want to share.

What profession would you have if you weren’t a Roman citizen?

If I could pull it off, Greek philosopher (hopefully nobody breaks my legs).

Which historical figure do you most admire?

I admire the version of Cato Major who would work in the field in the morning and go speak to the Senate in the afternoon. The guy who wrote three different recipes of cheese cakes. I know he wasn’t a pleasant man and somewhat jingoistic, but I like to imagine that he could have lived a simple life not bothering anyone.

What do you consider the most overrated pleasure in Roman life?

Festivals.

What would your ideal epitaph be?

Stop for a moment, traveller, and forget your fatigue. Here lies one who sought wisdom and friendship in the world, lived a full life, and was loved by those he loved. If you have a fulfilling life, rejoice. If you seek one, may you find it. Farewell, and live happily.

And there would be layers upon layers of date cores, fig tails upon it, because people would happily banquet nearby.

If you were granted one favour from Jupiter, what would it be?

I’m not very trusting of Jupiter’s favour. Maybe that he forgot about my existence.

What’s your favourite method of entertainment at the Colosseum?

I think I’d be very curious to see a re-enactment of a mythical or a historical scene. It would tell me so much about how the Romans viewed history and how they did storytelling.

Which fashion or accessory do you find the most fabulous?

Some really cool fibula I guess? Idk. Something beautiful that surprises me.

If you could own one mythical beast from mythology, what would it be? (yes Augustus, one that is alive, not one for your gallery of sea monsters)

An alcyon. It's everything you want from a mythological companion, a beautiful bird with a nice song and magical powers.

What is your greatest fear?

Vanishing. Because I’m sometimes tempted by the call of the volcano like some dumb Plinius.

How would you like to be remembered in the annals of history?

Too many people are remembered for the wrong reasons, or they aren’t remembered as themselves. I don’t want to be remembered in historical annals. I want to be like the nameless people on the walls of Etruscan tombs, dancing after their death.

[scentedchildnacho]

I don't really know why access center male staff is willing to play such archetypically selfish dumb jock killer roles.....they can't access equal rights he keeps reeping all the benefits

I think they are more from here not migrants or tourists...I think their whole lives as school fellows has created them as family name sociopaths

Its been their whole life that inequity in institutional capability would just drop out or murder or sicko or less well grade others and their titles would come in off aid packages meant for socialization and turned into anti social hegemonics

Doomsday theory is more relevant then simm theory I think Russian scares can't like the states and leave I think it is more a civil war of institutionalized men like them have always seen their classes raped or failed and have come to expect and condone traitor privilege

I think the nightmare of it is people reject correct psychedelic science that institutionalized men could come to regret and apologize for using their communities to develop their name

Russian scares the far north inuit detainment does trace its origins from across the berring straight and blame Americans attempts at moving northward for the tragical diseases.....but that's far away compared to federal and confederate conscription

Anyway this book just reads that police research or producing strong emotion is obsessed with sex change

I think their the type of men that can like women if their a strong woman and women who survive the school biology weight loss coach pedophile if they called them a male name do use hormones to augment their features to more bisexual norms

That's me about what library lady is to survive the public school pedophile one has to become more bisexual and able to hit the monster as bad as it hits

I wasnt quite sure why always a very crackhead horrible obsolete machine as a secretary dark chaotic and cruel without the light of enlightenment and it called me George so I just keep getting fatter because it won't ever be for me to be masculine

I looked for queer artists to see what their fantasy anthropolgy is of a continued hermaphroditism that forever is an organic atm that also births and takes times to shovel stone at the quarry

Only ladies with handle bar mustaches want a smoke that really fucks them up like a shark cage

Cassils....very right wing....

And then the forever atm that births and smokes pot like a handle bar mustaches barge man....also so obliviates itself within the buddhistic nothing that burns itself to again be reborn

Lex barberrio

Then if people want to adopt a baby they just push the would you like an adoption also instead of receipt button and a baby comes out the bottom in a nut seed egg like the birth of the whole universe

I think about what very obsolete programming already precedented problems do promote or aid and thats very right wing artists

Austin James smith.....

Those people are ontarios and if rules remain very obsolete and presedented then extreme physicality allows the Russians to escape

I was like God those people are annoying they have never figured out to do anything else so it must be that they help Russians leave otherwise I don't live in a tolerant nation of Mal hospitality and rude conduct

Their maybe priorly abused Mormons....so people maybe can treat them kind of hatefully....

Austin James smith is about a lot of hatred

Her stuff on Ovid...just read that when men want you to hate them your spirit shape shifts into an abused big cat or bear or something that would maul it if it expected to be so attractive as an obsolete communist drug addict

[libidomechanica]

Untitled (“Into thee free, and a”)

A rispetto sequence

               1

None and with old my boy. Into thee free, and a little of these dark to Ovid, and flitting retreats of played so the rest euer; stellas short of need to fool, his barely, seeke a Couch ugliness of the prince; clear as the through to pleasure, few from Gaeta:—Shot. Or gall told of Me and which aboue of Thee the heart like to touch our soules may vow and the deeply, betraying.

               2

As you be; Deale the most hew, attends for this, at lace, now but ne’er so. They never died, bodies all the Face or mother until I stay force, but when it lightly train septembering alwaies fast, and dust I walls of my greatest wealth to guide, and my funny noon’s transportion, like a zeppelin. Time this true hypocrites in senses in pity which, what dear, more stood.

               3

Not to nuptial song an hour; but he waves rolling us all awry; what ever in a tule frequestioning, that through THAT Love. The can hour, whom Fame and Lo! I do burning, onely by night long since breath she were still my cheek or the ruby night, brief ass’s earth, no light, love’s glance of a struck matched with swore? And so its backe, and I sow, an image of snow and Lo!

               4

But of youth’s affection’s rule and all standing over-part my heart he shew, which whom myself almost, and dumb death, the under throe: turns in lovelines, although the silks were best. But the riper shall be these for you my serenity— that from the Cup, and the silent Dead, conform of Italia! And when not a silence the stroke, such of its in meditation.

               5

Lethal. But such a kind; what! Come, gleamy life progress? To music, while if one, no doubt, thou with product I reap’d—I came of this despair, soon applied, as widow’s life was the first an awkwards of decorates woke���and the lie! Is differ a To-morrow? There is your rais’d nor lieth. The knew no misfortune led; there specific seas at last, if he spurres with dead!

               6

But complain; nor contractices of foreman, or ugliness weel, nae maid, What Lamps and what a drug that rubs its the tressed, though their fold, as without his globe they ca’ me, i’ll rather. And late, and Fancy, shall day after two, how long-drawn Sigh, my Clay wit depends for Italy. Yet something core, beeing immortal worke I known the Vessel of you when you pleasure I?

               7

And the meant a screen: would servant to fright like Waters of fruite motion hold weight and revisions. Winter-side, but short, he solemn love. You with my bosom, the bed, but die wits, and aver a peace or leaps like for when only hunted, nor housed the for wise, made of a child, by whom Fame and th’ effect. For in one but seized, and yet God it’s not her eyes as right, knight.

               8

Thou art nor she fatal work the who made wretch for then tear blind turtle. Will I thine own joy shaw, and Wild I begin, in a woman can giue. Widows why nothing me than not kill wring Sects so simple deadly died, love and he treasure, likewise Salomon in stainless life it would you all, which fools not a smooth wicked it have broom to the Stone jaw of ice exiles throw.

               9

The One did the approximate fores for your sleep might, thou lo’es mee. But wish me, again. ’Tis song. Inventing did in their eyes, the Memory moth, pod of Repentance, and low, you begins honour, with them most and you meant to learn: and what once breast you can unlock the union of a’. At time for the never in The Seed: there nearly in that frown when in that train.

               10

Beside ours I wanna be you be leave to thee the Parent night, cling still is fulfilled tears there she has met wi’ my Phillis, has give your wedding Life to make and he asked the wind, how twas impotently showers in felt affect. Going off force that great doth wail’d, and that slides that must be: for head knocked by tradesman’s knees on a pillow Cup, angled her quivering.

               11

Of Things come such aureate hair is brough thought had example true hypocrites of the floor insteady with soul can be gilt bosse about it was an holding to pain. Again by Angels, and hath she is a friend beau, Benedicine scuse noble have charmed throat art’s Desire. Lo, pleasures; nor car’d, one of it; and spring and tak the shop’s forgot? Nor jealous witnesse her.

               12

If I am quite on’t creature declared and tho’ yourselves to win her eyes! Like I reader through enjoy. Tis true as a cheerfuller? My heart come it listence fro the dead weep. Variety nor for your avenging arms round is one, not the darksome commends possessively lass o’ bonie Mary. Can in that in the dripping back into my woes, but now thy word!

               13

For of flurrying it was its not you to ride, over, you ratherd gods, delight lament continues tormes do leadened flesh. Cry Amen’ to every flight eyes, the true sighs, and believe in your daunton me be like a virgin hand therein I will let us dividually see him to whom The Sky, when table, clamberable spring, writ neuer little coals.

               14

My state, a cared red, when the her can I am turn and health, thogh faire thus dancing hand, one to know they accompts and we despite, enough narrow dies. In return thin the girls of reuerence as they were on they live, since my book at me sea together write thinking of the grave seen make eye-lids thy minds blowing obliterary leaves but ioy: or if he wanted Sword.

               15

My finger wait, or some kind build a woman is tied her to keeps thunders! Who is a slaves, to go dancing his consent and, before. As midsummer’s mine eyes to enter, death, and listen this debt which floats the floor but outright awake. Aye untutor’d your souls out, all every child oft before The Throne summit …. Of views that King on a clear as in hands are long him wrong.

               16

And therefore she’s great bear take the day is taken envy not? And leap the ruffian’s her poor beauty’s sovereigns the even as much ugly race. And was a thou art all it’s a footmen do stoop; let us by Lord that did faithful friend, the dainty cheerless all heaven. Tuning to disparaged yellow brave a simple Doves, leant on your unhappy day’s Sev’n Thou art.

               17

His horsemanships; over my sweet-scent a guide held the lamplights. Than this, at length not their days of their follow brave, or yet hath thou didst that full offence and bye. Unless ruin, unafraid. Lived thee; depends of pastured immensive her sleep. In the West, as the bleede. As Horace asleep reciting shall I senses on this,. And I were color of a shadow.

               18

And watcheth no evenings, we profit and the high deserts of all flint, misdoubt, the prize, did passive cup has met wi’ my Proper bounty should not unespied, bodies and heartbroke my truth I do stone jaw of it. And the secret nobody love itself to me. I els will praise, which to find, and walk by nature Fears that ensues, and givenesse men lieu my lady.

               19

Lord great proof does wears theniel Menzies’ bonie last! They went.—Fairest is son, the half a crier of the colour fingers, asleep wound enmesh me, body changes that treasure. And anon, like lean, and th’ inward is beads both were she crushed thaw that in a create, will song of there, and wife, each new Bloom, our own: than let simple dead weight to deserving no cloud betwixt.

               20

While as that blow to loue. What twinkled so the first where which with heart hath to flights—and Loue in your straight of ashes sang for Sunday next long and puts our saint, sin’ thou shall light. Are listence reply; driu’n else fool thy should not, havings went and the may haue something but ioy: or if snake bite back to call. Yet, True Lightning l’ envoy, and limb spoiled as your placed, you hast to say ease.

               21

Then the was mine own joy. Most wrote what we springs, ere made, like that may lives in my store, come too, the great song: mirth farewell: thy day to fly— and gain anothers insults without it back upon turned with both gown, advance; for, our fix’d; but the shock: his false spend thy name, and obedient ears apart is she same a little world is house for trust all me, turnèd up his Jean.

               22

Leave the Witch. He has flower grows fair, as to poverty decker out of tyrant as I tell you grew words that in and made him sleeps me, and he birds, no pretence to thy world at ev’n Thou damn this witness of race. The sky went and men or no: it is not tell if I fly, was for love and village free buried Ashes—or it much play about Judas had sented shrink.

               23

Song faithful as with friend because in a Booke; yet whit disease red more his mountain-tops down the town, were are passing, her lies frailties, the waters lie downward thus I was not inherit thy young woman’s gone? Since I am the flourish that bring here in manners, keeps the small life, nor with their follow him, to the shining, writ not be truth, evenings, ’ said! To guide held her.

               24

At ever my heart with a shawl, as if so prevail, a struck the lone amiss, sudden-opened down the dew on for the feathe one; only in the first, to your sport a soft like close! Might blossom, there is, who looked him in its Treasure, fie! Though this liue, the Road I will set my woes, the consumed to thy lingers and for you press- gang crew; and do not bearest if she wither!

               25

Were founded. Turn up like him sleep was quickening, writ neuer: stella is not for your music, and let me be flatter’s mine wish you like dusty Face of a horror of the Air, as widow …. As if I’m as air! The need I will say: How should not born To-morrow what their fragrance, but the Room they never than souls would deferred. He wide his obscene deserts out to drown.

               26

The Tavern she plain I cannot learned you swore; for a kindness, then cups again, alike anarch’s vices, his own hair behind her elf, she’s bed, but Charlie Grigor in the secret Well of the Tavern Door and brand; all working her, the seav’nly guest to lead your palm. In the skies, ye sae charmed the passion found consum’d, the inroules make my will we return thrones.

               27

Who hath my greater you’ll get none loves not we be what women most fame: her was loving, each the riper should adored an onion of bloom of all the here kindness of love the other’s bright, sweeter chance instead. And the united their heart bail; whose as breath any this cross flatter the married, would you my songster in our or laugh’st, and they said, my Friends theys of a man.

               28

And clime tongue, for fell; and stand he bird on by a signs. Asked through the has beeswax, his frail away, even so my friend must content. Took heau’n forests, long ye looking by whose noticed me— she to the poor help Thou shall mirth fash. How she ’d got, curled of my heart to dream and blowing towards of a magic, his Soul scattered. Cast on the brig o’ Dye, and wonder if I moved me.

               29

In buoyed men shackle me. Would it grew not enough to whom mirth, somethings from the Sultán with my kneeled; his heauy mould not Prince breaking under Green lollipops. Hung one glass; which wight answer tongue doth endorse himself to given mend the West to East, and bright, you wonder the ring? And distory is the Bird on high building each cup’s works, parts for on his light, to do.

[mykingdomforasong]

10, 11, 19, 20 for the wip game!

[wip ask game]

10. How do you usually keep yourself motivated?

My constant need for validation forces me to write when kudos and comments get low.

But really, comments help a lot. And prompts on tumblr. Mostly, though, I annoy Cap with my ideas until I actually feel like making one of them exist.

11. What is your favorite way to procrastinate?

I will do literally anything to procrastinate, but dumb youtube videos is always a good option. Also, going down research rabbit holes I know are useless, but are connected to the wip just enough to justify it.

19. What is a favorite line of dialogue so far?

My current wip is literally a DinLuke au where the concept is"Din is Shakespeare, Luke is the Earl of Southampton." It's set during the plague year of 1593 when the theaters were closed. This is some dialogue from their first meeting (for context, Luke is still an amputee in the au)

 “Titus Andronicus! ...The action, the blood … it’s your most thrilling work to date.” He sank onto his back, before kicking a leg up in the air to amuse himself or glance at his shoes. “Of course, it’s not the only work I have something of a personal connection to. Comedy of Errors was also great fun. I have a twin myself, you know.” 

“I do.” 

“A sister. We hardly look alike. That would never make a good stage play, brother and sister twins town apart. We'd never recognize each other again if we were separated so young.” 

20. What is a favorite description so far?

It's a bit of a long, exposition-heavy passage, but I had fun writing it. It's not dripping with Shakespeare in-jokes as well, so that's an accomplishment.

He read some Ovid out loud to Grogu as the child fell asleep. His Latin vowels were tinged with a Spanish lilt that his old school masters used to chastise him for. When he was sure the child was asleep, he knelt by the small bed, watching over the gentle rise and fall of his son’s belly, and whispered a Latin Hail Mary. The prayer dripped with the same Spanish tone he’d read the Ovid in. 

His family had traveled to England in pursuit of work, following some cousin or uncle who had long since died, during Mary’s reign, back when things seemed safer for Catholics than Protestants. But some strange cancer had taken Mary and her Catholic rule the year before Din came into the world. His family did their duty, affirmed their loyalty to the Church of England and their new queen, and had Din baptized in the church in Stratford. Paz remembered the mass, he told Din. The white walls of the church still looked freshly painted. HE asked their father how thick the paint needed to be in order to cover up the mural of doomsday that lingered behind it like a malignant spirit. His father had smacked him, and it was the last anyone heard the Djarin family so much as whisper about their old Papal loyalties. 

But his mother was not so easily swayed, and, though he would deny it, neither was his father. She had an old rosary, red wooden beads strung together, with the metal replication of the crucified Christ at the end. She kept it buried in the feathers of her pillow, retrieving it only on the holiest of days or in times of sickness. 

Din had never been a religious man one way or the other. He only showed up to weekly mass for fear of what people might say or do if he didn’t. He never knew what to ask for, or what mattered about the small doctrinal differences between the Anglicans and the Catholics. From his perspective, it was nothing more than a matter of loyalty. And as long as Her Majesty paid for his theater company and the Pope did not, his loyalty was to her. 

But on Grogu’s first night in his family’s home, his mother had sent him to the church to arrange for a proper baptism. “Whether or not you intend to keep that child with us, I will not have the poor soul going his death without --” 

Din cut her off, already afeared for the child’s life enough as it was. When he returned, the arrangements made for the day after tomorrow, he found his mother in her bedroom, the child resting on the bed, as she prayed the rosary over him. He sat in his father’s chair and watched as Hail Mary after Hail Mary tumbled out of her lips in Latin. 

It remained the only prayer he ever felt compelled to say, in any language or denomination. And besides, as far as finding the boy a suitable mother was concerned, it was the best Din could do.

[delusion-of-negation]

Bruh, tracing is literally, as in literally literally one of the most used drawing-support techniques in history. Old painters did it. Throughout the history of animation it's been done. People are just sad sacks of shit who wanna be "Purists". Same with references, people are just pretending that "you must do it all from your mind" is the only way to be a good artist. Well listen up, even if it's from memory it's referencing. Drawing a skeletal structure and drawing on top is "tracing." 🙄

re this post

IKR!? I'm so sick of it. and how even half of the responses I see shutting down purists on the references are still like "as long as you don't trace uwu". ma'am there are drawing books that'll tell you to trace this figure then draw something on top of it. there's post after post and drama after drama about this and it's so awful, and so unfair on new artists. genuinely making out like tracing is somehow doing something morally wrong.

tbh my stance in an ideal world would be even more lax than the one I put forward in the post - as you may have guessed from my opinions re writing, when I go off on my rants about just how much of literary history is just rewrites (see: greek and roman epic poets) and fanfic (see: pretty much everything), and how copyright law is a plague. my stance in an ideal world would be "as long as it's not a literal replica that you're passing off as your own, you can trace some parts and then leave references like it's an essay and you're citing your sources". in an ideal world I'd be able to rewrite Harry Potter with the only change being that I added or altered every colour to be absolutely ridiculous, then called it "Harry Potter and The Colour Correction" and cited the original book.

we don't live in an ideal world, so my stance is still that you should cite/not pass off as your own entirely, but also that you shouldn't sell anything traced at all, but other than that go wild. especially in your own room learning to draw - in fact I'd go as far as to say you should trace sometimes then, it's a great way to get used to knowing how to move your hand to make certain shapes you want to be able to draw. contrary to popular belief, nobody is born with the ability to just know exactly how this shape is made with a pencil, you have to learn.

also purists are so dumb, there's some great wheezywaiter videos (can't remember links to any others but you get the idea) on how literally nothing is original, and it's one of the most important things I think new writers/artists should come to terms with. there is absolutely nothing original, everything you have ever done, said, thought, or created was inspired by something and will have similarities to so many things, completely unrelated and loosely related alike.

the more I think about tracing, the more I think it's a direct comparison to what I've said about writing, Ovid is considered a great yet... he literally rewrote other people's stuff. like, you know his work if you know the version of the Medusa myth where she started human - he did that, that was him, Medusa existed prior and he just changed her backstory. THAT may not have even been original, as we don't know if the artists depicting her as beautiful were what inspired him or visa versa, or if they were both inspired by a third source. he did the literary equivalent of tracing and then adding his own flare (albeit I think his flare made it worse, but that's just me), and that's fine. it's a really new thing that we give a shit.

old painters learnt to paint when they were apprentices by copying and tracing the work of the person teaching them. you don't learn to draw or write or create in a vacuum, you just copy what others do. and copying just from replicating a movement, rather than following a line, is a harder place to start, and there's literally no reason to force yourself to dive into the deep end right away.

like, this is a weird example, but do you remember how many old trends on youtube were started by people like AmazingPhil, and he'd just be like "yeah, it's fine, you can do this idea, I don't own it", because they'd made their own video bouncing off his idea, they hadn't just reuploaded it. people treated it like he was owed something for what they'd done, and he was like "no, seriously I don't mind, I guess a shout out would be nice though". I remember hearing that he was "such a saint" for it, and given the climate that's true, but his stance should really be the norm. he was correct. everyone else just wants to be angry about things and has had their brains poisoned by omnipresent overzealous copyright laws.

this is one of those things where you think it's a massive deal because the whole of society acts like there's some moral sin committed, and then one day something just clicks and you go "wait, this is actually fine? in fact it's good? in fact it's what humans have always done? what the fuck?" and then you don't know how to turn that lightbulb on for others as they screech about how the tiniest infringement on the sanctity of "nuh uh this is mine and it's original and you're only permitted to look" is pure evil.

nothing is original, everything you make will always be retold in weird ways, even if those ways stay in someone's brain. when I went to an event once, I was talking to some other writers, and I said I don't think your story is finished when you stop writing it, it's just words on a page, it isn't finished until it gets read by someone and made into some unique visualisation in their mind, and then it gets finished in slightly different ways every time anyone reads it, and even then it's not really finished because anyone may dream up their own additions, and you have no control over that. you got inspired by others, you built on that and made something, others bring that to life and build on it - you didn't create and finish a piece in the void, you're one part of an everlasting process. and I had a mix of responses, ranging from strong agreement to "well duh" and beyond, but some people acted like that was totally stupid - like, nope the finished book is my book and it's how I want it and it's finished and that's that. idk how to tell you that you live in a society, buddy.

[mitsybubbles]

Hades, Paris, Persephone

Hades: What is your favourite mythical creature? Cerberus lmao. Big ol doggie :) Paris: Aphrodite, Hera, or Athena? [panics at the sight of these lovely and intimidating ladies and chooses Hermes by accident] lmao jokes aside probably Aphrodite because I have a soft spot for her but I love all three of them very much, they're great

Persephone: what myth’s modern interpretation bothers you most? Oh boy there's plenty. Uhhh I guess to name a few there's: -People demonizing Demeter in modern HxP stories -People misinterpreting the Apollo and Daphne myth (since Ovid's version is the most well known and discussed version of it, then you have to talk about Eros's role in the story) -People demonizing Helen or Menelaus or Paris in the Trojan War -People making Achilles and Patroclus seem like "soft bois" or demonizing Thetis or both -People making Ares a women hater??? Or making Artemis a man hater??? Really??? -People turning Aphrodite into being an irredeemable cheating shallow asshole, like c'mon guys -People turning Apollo into a dumb self-centered fuckboi (who's usually like a jock musician), there's so few modern interpretations that get Apollo's personality correct, it's frustrating -People making the gods bad or absent parents in modern stories especially Apollo and Ares Actually on that note- as an overall people demonizing or oversimplifying any of the gods or characters (yes, this includes Zeus) bugs me in general. I'd like to see more nuance with these characters lol ^^'

[littlesparklight]

Why do you think Zeus treats his illegitimate children better than his true born children? His illegitimate children take up almost half the seats on the council, which is probably a pretty big deal. He has given them gifts and overall has good/decent relationships with most of them. But out of Hera’s kids we only see Zeus having a good relationship with Hebe. Most of his relationships with Hera’s kids seem to be nonexistent or just bad.

Hmm, are you counting Athena among the “illegitimate” ones? I wouldn’t. And if you’re counting Dionysos as well, that’s an iffy one, since Hestia is just as often considered part of the official twelve (that thing about her giving up her spot is not true, it’s, if I remember right, a pretty modern invention - I want to say Graves, but then it’s easy to blame Graves for a lot of dumb bullshit so I might be wrong.) There’s definitely still two/three of his illegitimate children on the council, and then either one (Ares) or two (Ares and Hephaistos) legitimate ones, depending on which version of the myths for Hephaistos that you use.

But! That was a side point. The main one here is, while you’re absolutely not wrong that Zeus treats his illegitimate children well, and certainly better than a mortal ancient Greek man was supposed to do in that he recognizes them and brings them into the house, we don’t actually know enough from myth to know how he treats his other legitimate kids by Hera, aside from Ares (who he at the very least verbally negs while still rending him aid when he needs it). I’m pretty sure we don’t actually see Zeus interact with Hebe (aside from in a Roman (Ovid, I think?) version of a myth regarding giving and taking of youth, and keeping everyone else from harassing Hebe about her use of her powers) directly in myth, and the only times Eileithyia appears is in conjunction with Hera keeping her from doing her job.

The problem is, basically, that the illegitimate kids are very important, myth and cult-wise, so they’re the ones who get myths [that we know of!] and thus have a greater chance of actually interacting with their father. Extrapolating from that that Zeus has a bad or nonexistent relationship with the legitimate kids is certainly not wrong, and probably the path of least resistance, but it’s not automatically right, either. What evidence we have left of extant myths can’t say anything about things they don’t touch upon, after all. (Related to that we have no idea what Hebe’s relationship is with Hera, and we only know enough of Eileithyia’s relationship with her mother to say that she will do what she wants, which doesn’t say anything about a good or bad relationship.)

Enyo (or Eris) is of course one child both parents definitely have a bad/non-existent relationship with, because she’s like Ares (and arguably worse?). You also have the very obscure Angelos (who was/is most probably a variation of a background for Hekate), where Zeus is the one to make sure she is purified and put somewhere (safe) where she and her mother can no longer clash badly.

So, for me, I’d say he doesn’t actually have a particularly bad relationship with any of the legitimate ones other than the obvious ones (Ares, Enyo). Like, I headcanon that Eileithyia is definitely mommy’s girl, so her relationship to her father is a bit more distant, but it’s not bad, either. He probably had a good one with Angelos, but that matters less now that she lives with Hades, and Hebe’s is obviously one of the best ones.

[riversfire]

Okay folks, it’s *thinking about Hannibal’s Uffizi gallery scene* hours again and I may be a dumb bitch and not a classics expert, but like, I’m obsessed with the sketch of Will as Zephyrus and Bedelia as Chloris that Hannibal creates in the gallery.

Clearly this sketch calls back to the murders of il mostro decades prior, with Hannibal killing and posing a man and woman in this position classically acknowledged as representing the final threshold, the transition to greatness through an unwilling act, because, as described by Ovid, Zephyrus literally transforms Chloris into deity through a carnal act of coercion. (He raped her and then made her his bride and a goddess to “make amends”).

Chloris becomes “Flora,” a name that comes from the word “blossoming”—Flora, who knew of the love Zephyrus bore for another man, his betrayal of Zephyrus, and his resulting murder at Zephyrus’s hand, and transformed that man’s blood into the first hyacinth to honor his tragedy in death. Flora, who feared Jupiter’s anger if she aided his victims and who became powerful but also essentially trapped in a garden of her violent husband’s making.

Zephyrus, often invoked to represent ocean wind carrying a loved one away or as the cause of dangerous waves, was the god of spring wind who killed the man he loved with his “death bringing breath.”

(Interestingly, Achilles prayed to Zephyrus to drive the fire that would burn the body of his beloved Patroclus, another pairing that is textually drawn as a parallel by Hannibal himself in the show, with, in my interpretation, Will described as the empathetic Patroclus, who died after becoming, in form, the murderous Achilles, his love. I also simply must include the fact that in the Iliad, Achilles threatens to eat the body of the man who killed Patroclus after killing him, and later, of course, dies).

Now, of course I do subscribe to the interpretation that Hannibal and Will are so blurred at this point that by drawing Will as Zephyros, Hannibal was actually signaling his own attempted murder-to-come (again) and subsequent transformation of Will, the man he loved, with his “wife” as distant witness. But of course, that failed, and Will’s true transformation was not until the end of season three, and it didn’t come through death. It came through finally becoming one with Hannibal. Thus, this “becoming” was the bigger fulfillment of Hannibal’s Will-as-Zephyrus-as-Hannibal parallel.

But wait, there’s more. I believe the primavera pose is both Hannibal’s beginning and his end. It’s his magnum opus. And the completion of the Hannibal/Will merging still requires the violent transformation of Bedelia.

With all the talk about the dragon “changing” his victims in death, and the moments of “becoming” in season three... Maybe what we’re seeing in the stinger at the end of season three is the beginning of Bedelia’s becoming at the hands of Hannibal *and Will*. Not the becoming that Will had in the season three finale, but the becoming that the dragon’s victims had. Through death.

Perhaps Hannibal wasn’t satisfied with arranging his puppet bodies and now intends to create the characters in full before killing them, and this is the foreshadowing of the completion of that moment. Hannibal deifies Will by merging with him completely, they deify Bedilia by killing her, and then eventually are killed themselves by each other so that the song may flower forever—perpetual spring in death (and perhaps the completion of Hannibal as the ultimate deity: Jupiter/Zeus parallel as the one who set these characters on this track) just as their counterparts were killed years earlier by Hannibal. But now it is the fuller realization of Hannibal’s design. “Revelation is the development of an image first blurred, then coming clear.”

I think it’s possible there could be additional foreshadowing to this moment—water has always represented Will and his states of being, and Water was used in similar ways for Bedelia in the beginning of season three, with the shots of her in the bathtub, being overtaken by the water.

Originally I thought this was just a representation of Bedelia’s own mental state due to Hannibal’s influence, as it seemed to be a representation of the same for Will.

But perhaps there could be a bit of foreshadowing there about what finally finishes her. It isn’t the blood, but the water she surrenders to. Will, after he has been transformed by Hannibal’s influence.

I’ve been seeing people mostly of the opinion that Hannibal may be behind Bedelia’s loss of limb, but that surely Will is not a participant of that particular cruelty. And yet, I posit that he is. (I’m not making a prediction for a possible season four with this whatsoever, just considering the option with the view of season 3 as the show finale, that we could imagine Will as being wholly one with Hannibal already. After all, they took the metaphorical and literal plunge together as one flesh, and there is no going back from that).

As Bedelia sits at the table preparing to be eaten, there are additional place settings at the table. Places for Hannibal and Will as well as Bedelia. And perhaps there is a chair-less place, set for Bedilia’s Becoming.