#Ouat theories

[naivesilver]

Self-fulfilling prophecies, or: I think Rumple and Blue messed up big time, folks

Disclaimer: I am a comparatively recent OUAT fan, so while smarter people probably thought this through before I even watched the show, I have never seen it happen and thus can't know if I'm stating the obvious. Please bear with me, this is going to be a long post.

So prophecies! OUAT has a lot of those. There is an entire wiki section about them, and most of the early ones are offered to us by Rumpelstiltskin, because as we know, he gained the power of foresight from the Seer. But what exactly did said Seer tell Rumple, when she relinquished her power to him?

What we gather from the (cryptic) explanations that we get is that with foresight, you can see all the ways the future might untangle, and practising+physically approaching the time of the events make you able to discern which of those paths will ultimately be the right one. Bae's destiny after the Seer's first on-screen prophecy proves that while the future is highly dependent on people's actions, they cannot forcefully steer it in the direction they want - Rumple thought he could avoid losing his son by crippling himself, but in doing so he followed EXACTLY the road that had been paved for him.

We don't know, however, what would have happened if he hadn't spoken to the Seer. SHE knew, presumably, that by drawing him close she would put the doubt in his mind, but it's unclear whether he would have still left his son fatherless by dying on the battlefield or something entirely different would have happened. We don't know - and Rumple doesn't, either.

Here's the catch, though: everything he does in the first few seasons follows the same pattern of that night in the army, blindly assuming that it makes a difference. He micromanages every main character's life because he sees them as pieces of the bridge he HAS to build to reach Bae. He doesn't account for things going wrong because he thinks they can't, and he's fucking EVERYWHERE anyway, so nothing can slip out of his fingers.

But what if THAT is what actually cements this timeline as the "definitive" one? The Seer told him he would find his son again, he could have simply bid his time and waited knowing this would be the result anyway. When his first apprentice disappoints him as the curse-caster, Regina and her grudges still happen, after all. He probably didn't need to do anything to ensure it - if he'd just leaned back and spun his little wheel, the future would have come around on its own, one way or another. But he doesn't, and instead sets in motion a very specific chain of events, and thus the show happens.

Why would he do that? Maybe he didn't learn how to parse through his visions correctly and he thinks this is a "will be" future and not a "can be" one. Maybe that first prophecy didn't teach him anything, and he still thinks he can cheat destiny (as proven by the fact that when learning that a boy will be his undoing, he refuses to accept it, believing he can just kill said boy before it happens). Maybe he thinks he's like MCU Doctor Strange, who sees thousands of possible outcomes and makes sure the one that leads him to Bae the quickest will happen. I have no clue. But what I think has happened is that for any of these reasons, he made this destiny happen by KNOWING it would happen (or believing it would, as you'd have it), thus fulfilling the prophecy by willingly acting on it.

So Rumple fucked himself over, big deal. We have seen it happen multiple times after s3. But you know who else might have unknowingly led the future where she thought it'd go, in this endless loop we have just described?

At this point in the story we don't really have proof of whether Blue has prophetic powers of her own or she's just going off Rumple's words, but it does seem to me that the way she's telling the story has a bit more nuance than his version did during the Charmings' visit to the cell. So either she went back to pry further, from a man that she generally does NOT trust...or somehow, she's autonomously privy to details most of the others don't have.

But what does she DO with that knowledge? Does she work with what she has to guarantee Emma will fulfil her destiny? Does she trace very clear boundaries for everyone to stay within to adhere to her plan? No. She lets Geppetto convince her to lie. She allows him to risk jeopardizing the safety of an ENTIRE kingdom in the span of five minutes, which makes no fucking sense considering she has never shied away from weaponizing her influence for the sake of what she thinks is the greater good (which in turn is what made people think she was the villain all along, but I digress).

Moreover, some of my friends once had a discussion that, everything else aside, made me realize how fucking dumb it was of Blue to just LEAVE when Geppetto had threatened to do as he pleased with the wardrobe. What kinda preparations did she have to do, literal HOURS before a curse where she would lose all her free will and magic anyway? It was pointless at best, detrimental at worst, and the way I see it, PREMEDITATED to begin with, because while I utterly despise Blue and would have no problem calling her an idiot, this would objectively be a bad move. She could have literally lied to Geppetto about what kind of person could go in the wardrobe, or used magic to prevent the worst from happening. She has done similar things, before AND after that moment.

If she indeed knew, either because of Rumple or her own abilities, how shit was "meant" to go down, it's not too far-fetched to assume she might have acted accordingly in an attempt to guarantee the success of this plan. Even if there had been other possible paths to take, e.g. worlds where Emma might have gone to the LWM with either of her parents, and EVEN IF Rumple hadn't already prevented those variables from happening by that point...if Blue thought the only way for it to work was to stick to the timeline she had envisioned, then there was nothing anyone else could do.

To sum up this theory: Rumple sees the chain of events that develops through show canon, and either decides or mistakenly believes it will be made true, putting all his effort into ensuring it does. Blue makes the same mistake (depending on how you see it, obviously) and instead of forcing people's hands to change the course, allows Geppetto to make what she thinks is an unavoidable decision. By doing so, BOTH of them fulfil what they think is an already written future, but might have still only been one of the various options available among endless variables.

Besides, if they HAD realized that they'd fucked up in hindsight, I doubt they would have admitted to it. It would have been too late by then: knowing them, they would have felt forced to stick to their guns, to avoid considering the possibility to have made a mistake - ESPECIALLY Blue, who was already responsible for the start of this avalanche, what with giving Bae the bean and suggesting the curse to Rumple. It's hard to believe they would have been able to live with themselves, if they'd taken the option into account.

And in the end, what are the results of this proactive decision? Rumple and Bae's reunion is angry, unsatisfying and with catastrophic consequences for the whole family. Emma grows up alone, forced into a destiny she did not sign up for, having been ten minutes old at best. And as for the third victim of prophetic crimes...

Without these beliefs, solid or imaginary that they might be, there is a chance nothing would have gone as we know: the 28 years gap might have meant something else entirely, a lot of people would have been spared the pain, and an external hand would have prevented Pinocchio from being sent on an impossible mission, with a baby and no tools to navigate this world in his hands. Another child lost to the Land Without Magic as a pawn in a game played by two magic users who each thought they were outwitting the other - at least Emma got to grow and heal throughout the show, as an ADULT.

Did Pinocchio?

(OOF. This is almost certainly not what the writers had in mind when they planned the plot of this series. I am, unfortunately, aware of that. But I still think it's worth being put into words as a theory - I probably didn't formulate it as coherently as I hoped, but maybe the message will still filter through, despite the fact that I am 1) overtly verbose 2) tragically Italian. Unforgivable sins, both of them LMAO)

[florida3exclamationpoints]

Rumbelle text posts pt. 7/?

[ouatsqincorrect]

Zelena: Our babies are going to be smart and beautiful!

Belle: Not to mention imaginary.

[the-idiot-17]

ME WHEN THINGS I LIKE

(I accidentally closed it the first time now I have to rewrite all those tags ughhhh)

[descendantofthesparrow]

Remember when the Audrey villain leaks came out and then we saw the offical c4 and s3 outfit reveals and saw the c4 on the isle and the s3 in an auradon forest and we all thought there had been some sort of time spell where Audrey twisted time and instead of the c4 coming to Auradon it was the s3 so Audrey stayed with Ben and there was a whole adventue to fix the timeline? no? just me? okay

[raviolitin]

Ouat Theory:

So i’m rewatching Into The Deep (2x08) and I noticed something about the sleeping curse.

In 1x21, Regina states that when someone is under the sleeping curse, they’ll suffer dreams formed of their own regrets. But, does this really line up with what we see in this episode?? David goes under a sleeping curse and manages to break through into the netherworld, but that’s not where you go initially.

Here is David in his sleeping curse, very clearly not a dream let alone one detailing his regrets. It’s just a room of mirrors. This contradicts what Regina said right?? Wrong.

Because while David is up and moving this is still technically a dream, he’s not awake. It’s like lucid dreaming, he’s asleep but has full agency to do what he wants.

So, what about the regrets thing?? Well, my first conclusion was that it’s an abstract thing - a metaphor. When you’re forced to stare at yourself what else can you do but self-reflect, both literally and figuratively.

But then I came to a second conclusion, which I like much more. The sleeping curse looks different for everyone. It’s personalised.

David Nolan is a very self-loathing character. Almost every time he gets screen time it’s to lament about how many insecurities he has.

For David, his regrets look like himself. Because he regrets the man he feels like he is. When David Nolan looks in those mirrors, he sees a failure of a father, an unworthy leader, a dishonourable son, so many things that he feels he isn’t good enough at. I can’t imagine looking in a mirror would be a worthy enough punishment for most people, but if we consider this is personalised to David it makes so much sense.

And then you can dig a layer deeper and say that James factors in here. He admits later in the season that he feels like if he was raised by George he would’ve turned out like James did, a corrupt, cruel prince. Looking at himself, the face of his estranged twin brother, it reminds him of the darkness that lays within him. It reminds him that he isn’t completely good, a fact that seems to haunt him throughout the series.

David is a character that overcompensates for his own self-hatred to the point it’s extremely damaging to himself. He throws his life away for other people so he feels worthy of their love, he believes he’s only of worth when he’s providing something for someone, a fact he learned throughout both his childhood and adulthood.

Making David stare at himself, reckon with the man he is, is the perfect punishment for someone wracked with self loathing like him.

That’s why I think the curse changes for each person. It also makes me wonder what the other characters curses would look like.

[grtmnick]

Mystery of Storybrooke's magical keys. Many in the SwanQueen fandom upon their umpteenth series rewatch have doubtlessly noticed the peculiarity of the keys in Storybrooke. Firstly, pictured above is the key given to Emma Swan by Granny for the small room in the back of Granny's Diner that Emma stays in after first arriving in Storybrooke. A swan is clearly visible within the charm that accompanies the key.

A second image for our consideration was captured from the scene wherein Sheriff Swan first uncovered Regina's ring of skeleton keys that allowed the mayor exclusive access to the locks throughout Storybrooke. The symbolism of these keys is more subtle than it might at first appear. One possible insinuation is that built within the dark curse is both the means by which the former Evil Queen can maintain power, but also an enabling of her eventual downfall.

But why? It's true that the dark curse marked both Emma and Regina upon its casting; Regina its enabling caster thusly marked by its darkness, and Emma the savior destined to unravel it. However, early in the very first season the show was careful to establish that true love's kiss can break any curse, if so then why were SwanQuern specially singled out as magically entwined? It is almost as if their connection is implied to be far deeper and more powerful than even the dark curse itself was. Food for thought.

[crowfromfoggyforest]

Oh my god. I just realized something. I think i'm onto something. This is wild. I finished watching s6 of ouat over a month ago, and i just saw a random rumbelle post, and something clicked in my brain.

Lacey liked Rumple's dark side, but he still wanted Belle. We already knew that.

Belle kept wanting Rumple to become someone else, she couldn't accept him the way he was. We knew that too.

Rumple says he loves Belle because she sees the good in him. But in later seasons, he realized that he felt unable to become who she wanted him to be. He accepted who he was, didn't want to change anymore, but still loved Belle for seeing him as a better man than he actually was. For putting hopes in him that would be dissapointed again and again.

That's not a positive thing. That's not "you make me believe in myself and in my ability to change." He's convinced he won't change. He knows he will only cause them both pain. And he loves that pain.

You can't convince me otherwise, Rumple has deep-rooted self-hatred. He thinks he deserves to suffer. His love for Belle isn't positive. It's masochistic. He unconsciously uses it to punish himself. He can tell himself he has accepted his dark side all he wants, deep down, he still hates himself for not being able to change. And he wants Belle to remind him of this. He gets a bitter satisfaction out of dissapointing her again and again. "See? I'm a failure. No one could ever love me for who i am."

[cattapz037]

So y’all know know the episode where Snow and Charming find a unicorn so they can see Emma’s future and are given different visions well I have a theory as to why.

David had a good vision of Emma because he truly believed that she would grow up to be good, no doubt whatsoever.

Snow had a bad vision of Emma becoming evil because she didn’t believe that she would grow up to be good. She had doubts. And since she had these doubts she would do whatever she could to keep Emma from becoming evil but her efforts would have failed and Emma would turn evil (if the curse was never cast and she got to raise her)

Why would Snow raising Emma in a way to unsure she wouldn’t be evil make her grow up to be evil you may ask? Two reasons.

One: If a person learns something happens in the future no matter what path they take to keep that something from happening it will probably happen anyways. Rumplestiltskin is a very good example, he broke his foot so Bae wouldn’t become fatherless only for him to become fatherless went Rumple gave him up for his dagger.

Two: Since Snow truly believed Emma could be evil she would do whatever she could to prevent it and eventually Emma would pick up on her mother’s sentiment and this would lead her to turn evil. For example in the episode where Regina disguises herself as a woman named Wilma Snow keep saying that she believes Regina could be a good person and they could be a family again. Hearing her words Regina decides to change her mind about killing Snow and being a family with her but when Snow finds out who she really is and then turns on her, telling her that she will never be good Regina reverts back to her old self. One person’s actions can influence another’s, so Snow treating her daughter as potential evil would eventually push her down that dark path like it did with Regina

[campbells-content]

If yall have more requests for sss, lmk, whatever is wrong with me is kicking me to hell. I was listening to chapel roan and litraly felt like i was floating. Brian is not working independently rn, but im good at fillinf in blanks

[wicked-storybrooke]

Gothel knew so much about Alice and Killian's lives in the tower. But how? I can't stop imagining her hovering in the air and peeping over the windowsill or through one of those scooby doo-style portraits with eyes. Or maybe she was on the ceiling the whole time :O!

My best guess is that she communicated to Alice through her dreams or could telepathically gather information that way. Or it could be that she's just telepathic at all times, as she seems to have the psionic ability to control minds (like the Desk Sergeant).

What do you think is most likely @fairytalepsuedonym ?

[ouatsqincorrect]

Zelena: Wait, Regina is doing the right thing? Zelena: [to Emma] You did this to her.

[themeepyfreak]

Day 4: A Personal Headcanon

My HC is that after talking to August and deciding to leave Emma to her destiny, Neal went back to the meeting place to say goodbye to Emma, but it was too late.

Canonically, in "Tallahassee", when Neal went to fence the watches, he left the bug with Emma. Therefore, when August intercepted Neal and persuaded him to leave Emma, the bug was still in Emma's possession. So when Emma was arrested, the bug was most likely close to where Emma was waiting for Neal. This means that in order for Neal to have had the bug when he confronted August later in Canada, Neal must have gone back to where the bug was (close to where Emma was waiting for him) before leaving to Canada.

Personally, I think that an hour or two after Neal stood Emma up, he started to feel bad about leaving without a word, so he tried to go back to the meeting place hours later than they planned to at least give her a goodbye. However, when Neal reached the meeting place, Emma was already gone (since August called the cops on Emma- confirmed by A&E on Twitter- and she was arrested) though the bug was still nearby. I think Neal assumed that Emma left on her own (or that August already connected with her), so he took the bug and went to Canada.

It's not until Neal was already in Canada when he opened the trunk; saw all of Emma's possessions, including the baby blanket she never left without (since canonically, Emma didn't have anything on her when she was arrested); and realized that something was wrong. Afterwards, he tried to look for Emma, found out that she was arrested for the watches, tried to locate which prison she was in with no luck, and finally contacted August to get some answers. That's when August told Neal about calling the cops and convinced Neal that Emma was better off in jail (since it's not like Neal could have bailed her out anyway). This led to Neal requesting to meet August in person where they had their second canon conversation in which Neal (naively) promised not to reunite with Emma until after the curse was broken if August took care of Emma and made sure that Emma got the money and the bug (with all of her possessions, including her baby blanket, inside).

Disclaimer: This hc probably contains plot holes. It's just my best reasoning of what happened in "Tallahassee" based on the canon events and characterizations. I also don't mean to villainize August in this HC; I actually have theories on why August makes the decisions he does in "Tallahassee", but this post is already too long without going into August's perspective. Maybe if people are interested, I'll make another post on August's point-of-view specifically.

[sprnklersplashes]

once upon a time brainrot is back and now I'm just so mad we don't live in the timeline where the theory that killian's dad was hades was true because that would make hope half saviour, half pirate captain, second generation product of true love and one quarter god. name a better character concept. you can't.

"oh but that would make her overpowered" "that would make her a mary sue" Do I Look Like I Care?

[fairytalesreusedcostumes]

This blue/yellow snow white costume with red cape is worn on Mayim Bialik as Amy Farrah Fowler in The Big Bang Theory: The Contractual Obligation Implementation (2013) and worn again on Ekstra in Once Upon a Time: Beauty (2017)

[caliburn-the-sword]

or alternatively:

was trying to figure out a way to organically shorten mary margaret's name and give her a nickname that DOESN'T take literally forever to say and/or type and is also super affectionate for fanfic purposes. drew up a lot of blanks cause there's no way to combine her two names well since they both start with "mar-" unless it's mar mar which just sounds plain silly, so i thought why not cut off the "mar-" from each name since they're redundant and combine those halves instead?? well, you know what that gives you??

ry garet

or, when you pronounce that the way her name is pronounced

regret

like damn regina just HAD to let her vendetta show fkshfsdkh

(yes i know that meta wise she was actually named after the women that inspired the fairy tales of snow white but this is just an amusing and also completely nonsensical thought that i decided to share with the void for funsies. cue the x-files theme music)