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lu-is-not-ok · 1 year ago

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loving the analyses! could we get ebony stem/ya śūnyatā tad rūpam, if your inbox isn't too full? keep up the good work!

Well, I can fulfill one half of this request, considering I already talked about the other Outis E.G.O for... Way longer than was probably necessary.

That being said, let's dive under the cut for this.

So, let's start off with Ebony Queen's Apple. Or, rather, Snow White's Apple, the Abnormality Ebony Queen's Apple is an Abberation of.

The story of Snow White's Apple is a very interesting twist on the fairytale, focusing on the experience and feelings of the apple that poisoned Snow White.

This apple, created by the witch's rage and curse, was left abandoned after it fulfilled its purpose. Lonely and festering hatred towards the princess, the same feeling the witch was experiencing, it waited to rot away and disapper... But it couldn't. No matter how much time passed, how much the apple was crushed or eaten by bugs and birds, it would continue to exist.

Surrounded by the bodies of the birds and bugs its poison killed, the apple began to ponder its existence, until one day it sprouted enough of a stem and leaves to move from its spot. Thinking of the princess who was woken up from her poisoned slumber by a prince, the apple decided that it was a princess in its own right, but didn't need a prince to be woken.

The main theme of this abnormality is loneliness and jealousy mixing together to form an intense, "toxic" hatred. There's also this interesting idea of immortality and its negative connotations, being that the apple wished to effectively die, but would never rot, instead stewing in its own loneliness and the harm it inflicted just by existing. There's also this interesting idea of a role reversal, of the apple that inherited the witch's will and feelings becoming a princess in its own twisted way.

Now, that's all nice and good, but what about Ebony Queen's Apple.

Here, I would like to briefly rant about the fact that the wiki for Limbus Company contains all the MD Events, all the Abno Logs (though not always with proper assignments who said what), all the detailed Battle Info... but. For SOME FUCKING REASON. It does not include the text for mid-battle events. IT SAYS THE EVENTS ARE THERE!!! BUT DOES NOT PROVIDE THE FUCKING TEXT!!!!

Thank you, shitty fandom wiki, this is useless! You're making my job Harder!

In fact, I'm going to bring up those events as the First Thing, because they actually have the most thematically relevant details out of all of the information we have.

Ebony Queen's Apple has two mid-fight events. One that always activates on Turn 3 of the fight, and one that activates when its Head part is broken once and brought down to half health.

Let's start with the first one, perhaps the most interesting one.

It begins by describing Ebony Queen's Apple as "a heart torn into thousands of pieces", and how it burrows and tangles itself underground to hide itself from all eyes. Already, we have this repeat of the idea that the Apple is inheriting feelings from someone else, being that person's heart rather than just an apple cursed by that person.

This is followed by another interesting line, giving the reason for someone to pull up these roots as "there is no wound that can remain unearthed". The wording of this is kind of odd here. The word 'unearth' means to find something by digging something up from the ground, so for something to remain 'unearthed', it has have already been found and dug up.

Which... doesn't make sense when you first think about it, because it's giving a reason for digging something up by telling you that... something can't remain dug up? Unless, you connect it to the previous line. A wounded heart should not be seen by all eyes. No wound can remain unearthed. Ebony Queen's Apple is very much trying to hide its pain, and that's why the Sinners have to pull on these roots. Reveal the Apple's own pain. Because it by itself never would.

When the Sinners proceed to give each other looks, another interesting sentence follows. "Being coiled in piercing, sharp pain was something to avoid even in one's dreams." While, on the literal level, this is obviously meant to refer to the Sinner being bound by Ebony Queen's Apple's roots, I do wonder... Is it also referring to the pain the Apple itself is experiencing and trying to hide?

The skill check is a Wrath Advantage, with the additional flavor text saying "The dry earth must be upturned. Which Sinner was up to the task?". It's interesting how Wrath, the Sin of defiance, is the one that does better at upturning reality, if you will. But, that's not directly related to the Abno, so I won't dwell on it for too long.

What follows a successful skill check is the Sinner digging up the roots with their bare hands and coming to some... interesting realizations. To quote the text directly:

"In their hands were the doubts of others. The Sinner realized... That while the injury may heal, distrust might take deep root in their heart."

This, I think, is the reveal of what the source of Ebony Queen's Apple's pain is. The Apple has been hurt before, and while no physical injury or pain remains, there is still that pain of distrust, that pain of fear over being hurt again. The coiling, sharp pain that took root in the heart that the Apple represents. And that same pain that the Apple tries so desperately to hide.

Now, let's talk about the second event, which I have to rant about again. There is. Very little online info about this event, as usually one can very easily skip it because of how easy Ebony Queen's Apple is to defeat. The only footage I've found of it is in a Solo video, with the person pressing the Skip button, so if I miss any text in that event, this is why.

And no, I couldn't check what the event was on my own, because by the time I'm writing this Ebony Queen's Apple is no longer available in thread luxcavations, and I'm not going to be doing a whole MD for the chance of finding the boss or waiting a whole week just to be able to confirm the event text. I may be insane, but I'm not that insane.

So, in this event, when the Sinners look up at the Apple's face, they gaze upon "the weathered memories within". Again, there's this idea of the original harm that was done to the Apple took place such a long time ago that its memories have become weathered. It could also refer to the pain and distrust being what made those memories weathered by them, everything the Apple can remember now tainted by these feelings.

Another interesting line in this event is the following: "When the apple browns, cracks, shrivels, and attracts lowly creatures... That is when it has met golden bliss." There's that same idea of the Apple seeking death just like Snow White's Apple. How rotting away and becoming one with the earth, finally letting go of this pain, is the one thing this Apple considers as true bliss.

Upon succeeding the skill check (Pride advantage for taking advantage of the Apple being lost in bliss, btw), an interesting line is said. "The fruit was emptied of its lifeblood long ago; only futility remained."

It's a very evocative sentence to me. It gives the image of Ebony Queen's Apple being a sort of walking corpse, something that should have already died, but something within it was keeping it clinging to life in futility. Was the moment the Apple got hurt enough to begin its distrust the moment it lost its lifeblood? Was that pain and distrust the thing that kept it going in futility?

Now, let's take a look at the actual battle info. Don't worry, this one won't be as long as the MFE one, since Ebony Queen's Apple doesn't have as much to ramble about regarding its Skills and Passives.

Ebony Queen's Apple uses two different Sin Affinities - Gluttony for attacks done with its Stems, and Pride for attacks done with its Roots. All of the Apple's body parts have two attacks each, with the exception of the Head, which only uses a single Affinity-less defense skill.

Starting with the Stem attacks:

Pale Stem - The appearance of Snow White's Apple's stems actually plays a notable role, as they are constantly described as looking like they are dying and withering, yet they're still alive and growing. Likewise, I think it is worth pointing out what Ebony Queen's Apple's stems look like as well. The descriptor of 'Pale' combined with the almost skeletal appearance in its design proper gives the image of a plant that has been dead for so long its color and structure is unrecognisable. And yet... it's still alive, despite all odds.

Distrust - In case we didn't pick up on the idea of distrust from the mid-battle event, this attack would absolutely clue us all in. Incredibly straight-forward, not much more to say here.

Now onto the Roots attacks:

Root Spike - This one is so straightforward that I don't think there's much to read into here. You could probably read way into it with the idea of distrust and how it connects to the idea of taking root, but... Nah. I think this one is just a simple physical description of the attack. They can't all be deep.

Shared Pain - An interesting fact about this specific attack is that it only starts getting used After the mid-battle event (wiki says it only enters the pool after both events but I'm Sure I've had this attack happen after only the first one, so *shrug*), which has some interesting implications.

Recall that the first event involves a Sinner digging up Ebony Queen's Apple's roots, effectively exposing the pain and distrust it feels to everyone around it. And this action is what lets the Apple use the Shared Pain skill... If you can't hide it, make a show out of it, I suppose.

Now, onto the last one, the Head's defense:

Vain Fruit - Now, I think this is a very interesting skill name, as it could have a double meaning. Vain could mean someone with a lot of pride, an excessively high opinion of oneself. However, vain could also mean something useless, futile. In a way, I think both of these apply.

On one hand, Ebony Queen's Apple absolutely fits the Limbus definition of Pride. Hiding and trying to ignore its own pain for the sake of keeping up appearances, doing something for its benefits while ignoring the negative consequences. On the other, we are directly told that the Apple's continued survival is futile, there is no life left in it, only pain and distrust. Its continued existence is in vain.

So, I think the description "Vain Fruit" fits it quite perfectly actually.

Now, I'll take a brief look at the Passives as well.

An Apple's Twilight is an interesting one. When used figuratively, twilight can describe a state of gradual decline, or a state that is obscure and hard to define. In a way, I think that's exactly the state Ebony Queen's Apple is in. Not quite alive, but not yet dead either. In the twilight of its life, you could say.

Entangling Roots is clearly connected to the first mid-battle event, where the Apple is described as tangling itself to hide its pain. These roots are what entangles the Apple, and by pulling them out, this Passive is turned off premautrely.

One Sole Root is an interesting one, because I think it comes back to the idea of Pride/Vanity. That everything is about keeping up Ebony Queen's Apple's image, keeping up that one single root that matters. Note how the Roots are the part of the Apple that is covered up by its dress, and how "breaking" the Roots doesn't necessarily break the roots themselves, but exposes them by breaking the dress covering them.

So, let's finally mention the Abno Logs, shall we?

Something very interesting about Ebony Queen's Apple is that it's noted to not be immediately hostile to the Sinners, rather trying to communicate with them telepathically. It's in stark contrast to Snow White's Apple, whose hatred and poison would actively harm anything within its vicinity.

Even more interestingly, Ebony Queen's Apple asks the Sinners to "Bring Snow White", which leads Faust to realize this Abnormality has some connection to Snow White's Apple. However, something about this is interesting - it's very clearly talking about Snow White, the princess, not the other Apple. Do both of the Apples have some sort of connection to that princess?

The next Log mentions something interesting - Faust speculated that Ebony Queen's Apple could potentially 'believe itself to be a "noble".' Consider how Snow White's Apple began to believe itself to be a princess after spending a long time thinking about her. Likewise, Ebony Queen's Apple seems to have done something similar, instead beginning to believe itself to be the evil queen, potentially also after thinking about her for a long time.

...So I have a theory here. A Lore theory, if you will.

The Snow White's Apple is an Apple who took on the heart of the witch (which, if you somehow don't know the story, is the Evil Queen in disguise), but decided to become like a princess after being hurt by her.

What is the chance that Ebony Queen's Apple is the opposite of that? An Apple who took on the heart of the princess, but decided to become like the Evil Queen after being hurt by her.

It would explain a lot, in fact. The reason why Ebony Queen's Apple isn't initially hostile towards the Sinners? Because at her heart, Snow White isn't a violent or malicious person, it's the persona of the Evil Queen that the Apple took on that is violent. What character in the fairytale would be the most likely to develop high levels of distrust? Snow White, who's being constantly hunted down by the Evil Queen through a variety of deceitful tricks. Why would the Apple look like it's been dead for a long time? Because Snow White was put into a coma, seemingly dying due to the Evil Queen's actions, before she was brought back to life.

So... decoding Ebony Queen's Apple is nice and all, but where does that leave us themes-wise?

Well, distrust is the most obvious theme here. Specifically, the pain one experiences and feels the need to hide because of the fear of being hurt again. There's also this similar idea of immortality, but in this case it's specifically the futile attempt of living after one's death, literal or figurative. A walking corpse, if you will. Finally, the role reversal theme rears its head up again, though in this case it's about a kind, soft-hearted person becoming malicious and selfish, so as to never be hurt again.

And now, we get to the big question. What does all of this mean for Ebony Stem Outis?

Well, let's look at the Awakening attack. In this attack, Outis uses Ebony Queen's Apple's Root Spike attack, which by itself doesn't tell us much. What is interesting is how she invokes this attack. The motion she makes puts to mind the leader of an army, directing their troops forward with the decisive raise of a weapon.

However, the more interesting part here I think is her dialogue line. "If this is to seize victory…" So, those who were here for my Ya Śūnyatā Tad Rūpam analysis might have an idea of where this is going.

This, I think, is Outis expressing her own justification for putting on the persona of the 'Evil Queen', of a brave, selfish commander. It's to seize victory, whether it's about the Smoke War, whatever ulterior motives she has in her current position, or perhaps even something far more personal. Because, if you win, you can't lose and be hurt further, right?

After all...

Outis has proven herself to be quite familiar with this idea, hasn't she?

Now, onto the Corrosion.

Here, the idea of Ebony Queen's Apple representing something that is already dead is further cemented, as Outis's face turns completely skeletal upon becoming Corroded. Interestingly enough, the animation she uses here is the Apple's Shared Pain attack. Perhaps Corroding under the influence of this Abnormality shows enough of her vulnerabilities for her to decide to unmask just enough to use that attack?

The dialogue line here is also very fascinating. "Just a little more…", said in a notably pained manner. Just how desperate is Outis? Just how much pain is she pushing herself through to continue on? How many 'just a little more's has she been clinging to this whole time?

Just like how Ebony Queen's Apple's attempts to keep living after death are futile, Outis's attempts to continue on despite what happened in her past are also futile. No amount of pushing through and inching forward will lead her to where she wants to be. No amount of telling herself that the Oddyssey had a purpose will actually give it one.

Finally, we're at the point where we can do some Sin Analysis.

Ebony Stem is a Gluttony-affinity E.G.O, and it's a very clear yet very interesting case of one. The hunger is very much there, but it's not what one would usually associate with Gluttony on first glance.

The hunger for survival is there, but it's not literal. In this case, it's the striving towards surviving without being hurt, surviving despite the pain distrust causes. Likewise, the hunger for progress is also there, in this case it's for trying to move forward despite what happened in the past, to keep inching 'just a little more', even though it's clearly futile, with no end in sight.

This futility, I think, is what truly makes this a Gluttony E.G.O.

Now, as for the necessary Sin Resources, they are as follows (ordered from needed most of to least of): Pride, Gluttony, Lust, Gloom.

Pride is quite important to Outis's character, and especially to this E.G.O, as she requires a whole four of it to use it. While the whole idea of her ignoring the harm she inflicts on others to get what she wants still applies here, I think there's another layer to this - ignoring the harm she experiences in doing so.

One of the main themes of Ebony Queen's Apple is how one tries to hide and ignore the pain and distrust one feels for the sake of the appearance one puts on, an incredibly Pride-coded action. Likewise, Outis has to hide her pain and insecurities to be able to put on the persona of the strong-willed, merciless commander, a highly Prideful act by Limbus's standards.

Gluttony follows after, with Outis requiring three of it to use Ebony Stem. Due to it being the Sin Affinity of the E.G.O, most of the points I made while talking about that still remain. Outis needs to wish to survive without pain and keep moving forward despite it being futile to use Ebony Stem, simple enough.

Then, a surprise guest.

Lust. Outis requires two of that Sin to use Ebony Stem. While Lust often represents indulgence, I believe this case is very similar to the case of Lust in Ya Śūnyatā Tad Rūpam. It represents Outis's dedication to her personal goals, how she has to be willing to do anything to fulfill them to gain access to this E.G.O. Plus, there is that additional layer of her wishing to not be hurt, though that can count as several different Sins depending on the context, and it's something I would put under Gluttony for this E.G.O specifically.

Finally, there's Gloom. Outis requires only one of it to use Ebony Stem. It's a small, but nonetheless important part of this E.G.O. I believe Gloom here represents the pain and trauma that led to Outis developing this behavior in the first place. The harm that was inflicted on her in the past, and the distrust that clings to her afterwards. It's a small part due to Outis's highly goal-oriented nature, causing her to focus on other aspects of Ebony Stem, suchs as reaching the goal of victory... But that hurt is still there. That piercing, sharp pain coiling around her heart, that she's always aware of at the back of her mind, no matter how much she wishes to hide it.

Of course, her Passive here being named Stem of Distrust only drives the point home even further.

Something interesting about Ebony Stem Outis's Sin Resistances is that, while very close to Ebony Queen's Apple's, they're not exactly the same. Both the Apple and Outis are Fatal to Wrath and Pride, as it's what can easily tear down their masks - the will to defy their commanding presence and tear it down, knowing that exposing their pain will hurt them in the process. However, what they differ in is the Sins that are Ineffective (x0.5) against them, and the ones they Endure (x0.75).

For Ebony Queen's Apple, its Ineffective Resistance is Gloom, and it's Endured Resistance is Envy. Meanwhile, for Ebony Stem Outis, the Ineffective Resistance is Gluttony, while Gloom is Endured.

I think the reason they're protected from the influences of those Sins is, well... They're the reasons why both the Apple and Outis put on those personas in the first place. They're both protected from Gloom because the whole reason they act like 'Evil Queens' is to avoid getting further hurt, with it being much more important to the Apple.

The Apple endures Envy because its pain likely comes from the influence of a single person - the real Ebony Queen. As such, by mimicking her, the Apple is effectively ensuring that it won't be as hurt and influences by her as it was in the past. Likewise, Gluttony is Ineffective against Ebony Stem Outis as that's the main reason she puts on this mask, to continue moving forward, to keep on living after what happened, regardless of its futility.

There is... certainly something going on with Outis that we don't fully know about yet. Something about her two Gluttony Affinity E.G.Os having themes of distrusting other people, and all of her E.G.Os having some form of idea of putting on a front that's far more aggressive or selfish or commanding than the real self might be...

Girl, what is with you.

#tearychildren #ask #lu speaketh #limbus company #outis #outis lcb #ebony stem outis #lcb analysis #i will say #this new format i've been doing with e.g.o analyses #where i go far more in depth than i used to #is extremely fun to write #maybe once i'm out of requests i might revisit some of my old analyses #the roseate desire one especially feels somewhat dated #as i've written that one before my opinion on what each of the sins means was solidified #but who knows #anyway enjoy another essay length analysis

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