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veniceperformanceart · 7 years ago

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Ein Gespräch – A Conversation

By Aisha Ryannon Pagnes

Conversations between ART WEEK writer Aisha Ryannon Pagnes and artists and co-curators of the III Venice International Performance Art Week 2016.

Photograph © Claudia Popovici.

In order of appearance:

(LSC): Leisa Shelton-Campbell

(JK): Julius Kaiser

(ADR): Alexander Del Re

(ARP): Aisha Ryannon Pagnes

(K): Kyrahm

(NF): Nicola Fornoni

(DQ): Douglas Quin

(SW): Susanne Weins

(SV): Sašo Vollmaier

(HC): Helen Cole

(LC): Lorne Covington

(JM): James McAllister

(PRS): Preach R Sun

(JE): Jeannette Ehlers

(NB): Nathalie Anguezomo Mba Bikoro

The gift, or the awful burden of the artist is that they see details in the world and they see their implications and that is what they bring into the space; we all walked passed that old woman, we all walked past that box on the ground by that old woman, we all walked passed. But they can’t because of the dynamic of that person and how they relate to the very fact that people were walking past and they have to do something with it. But we were all there. I don’t think they can present anything different, they are just presenting rather than ignoring. (LSC)

The difference between manifesting and showing is getting to the heart. (JK)

And by mediating between ideas and people you are in a position where you can open a question, but I doubt we can provide an answer; I am not convinced that I have any solution to the problem. (ADR)

How do you think this can be misinterpreted? (ARP)

These topics are so fragile that anything is enough to cause misunderstanding. (K)

When something is taken out of context and put into an anonymous realm

it is everyone’s to play with and assume a context for. (LSC)

It is not that complex, in fact, it is very simple… (NF)

Disconnect the brain and connect the heart.

And it is that idea of being alive, and maybe it is as simple as that. (DQ)

There was a very strong need to express movement. It is there that I felt the most alive.

This feeling of where life is… (SW)

But the reality is that when I close the door I close myself. So this is what I need to learn, how to live this quality outside... (SV)

What is this quality?

It’s curiosity… This is what I am looking for, not just for others but also in my Self.

Believing in human creativity… all this aggression, all these suppressed feelings exist because we are creative creatures… so he welcomed aggression, to ask what’s behind this, what’s unread and to transfer this aggression into the voice, into movement, dance; to focus on each person’s expression as a creative source… and express this… this fragility… and suddenly all these colours… but you have to go through all those true personal states, you really have to go into your guts and feel this pain to find a true voice, something which is meaningful… (SW)

I was always connected to the voice through my family… more so with my father.

There were nine children in the family and I think singing was also a way to survive.

They would sing together to get emotionally stronger,

so this tradition I remember because they kept it, till now.

For me performance is almost like surviving. It is going to a deep process of… almost of death… and surviving this… many fears… (SV)

Sašo Vollmaier and Susanne Weins. Photograph © Lorenza Cini.

It is the cornerstone of art, because art for art’s sake is so tautologically irrelevant, it is very easy to produce, it is a comfort zone for many artists. I need some challenge and the challenge involves the other, it involves failure, in many ways, because in performance you are not supposed to have everything under control and do exactly as you thought you would, I don’t believe in that kind of practice. (ADR)

Knots were forming and I wasn’t able to disentangle them. I wasn’t able to make a homogeneous wig: it was full of knots. It was all a process of becoming and I wanted to let myself be transported by a continuous and unpredictable flow.

I found myself within the situation and I wasn’t trying to govern it,

I let my Self be moved, I surrendered.

When I am performing I am in a therapeutic level. I do try to transform something from its negative to its positive through actions towards the public.(NF) Even though we are not using performance art as therapy, we are not supposed to, we are not qualified to, it has some therapeutic aspects to it at some levels and I am aware that I am using it in my own personal life. You are using your body not only as a tool, but as a terrain, as a battlefield and addressing phobias is a good way to be aware of the body, because you become aware of its fragility. (ADR)

It dealt with an aspect of loss. (HC)

It is part of life… Tied to the gestural action, to the preciousness your feel of yourself, or a body, or a relationship, or an experience lived personally. Art needs to make you identify with what it wants to say, with the mind, with the spirit and heart. (NF)

How much more marvellous and essential, of synthesis, direct, a punch to the stomach, no filters. (JK)

It is just an ongoing investigation (ADR) of addressing things that our minds have problems with: it touches you at a visceral level, and that is a way of getting people to think about it. (DQ)

It is an open exercise in dealing with difficulties, especially when you are dealing with something that can be really difficult to perceive, it’s a good exercise for understanding other people’s perception, too.

Many times we forget about what the audience perceives or what they want to perceive, and sometimes it is interesting to work with things that are difficult to perceive for the audience, too, because there is always someone in the audience that can do that and others that can’t. Many of the things I address come from my daily experience, and how the understanding of one another can be faulty in many ways or incomplete, and I feel the need of addressing these issues, maybe just to provide some other perspective. And sometimes that change of perspective can be very useful for an audience, to see something that they haven’t seen before. Art is a communication tool really. It is a form that can create ways of communicating with each other, in unexpected ways, complex ways, lots of ways. If there is no communication I think performance art would be empty. Performance art creates a temporary situation in which people can be real but disconnected from reality, and that breaks some of the barriers people have. (ADR)

It’s about place. You are bringing everybody together in that place and giving to them a way to interact with one another in a way they never have before. Really creating a new kind of space. (LC)

It’s a different language. (JK)

So then you realise that it is a common language, which maybe has something to do with a collective common imaginary. (K)

I think it is the only language that enables you to express your Self with authenticity and without added filters. I had a necessity of extreme truth in terms of my own personal life, and through art I found the way to express my Self without suffering. The moment I live the creative experience I feel like I am living in the right dimension.

Everything recomposes in equilibrium, harmoniously. (K)

It can lead to failure, but failure isn’t failure if you think of it in terms of growth. (ADR)

James McAllister. Photograph © Edward Smith.

I wanted to work with people, to be in touch with people…

I studied human beings, and this was so interesting. Our task was to study, to see what the problems are… we had to learn how to see, to look at people, to learn what they could have.

I see the strength of people. I see the strength of the body… loosing blood while keeping concentration… how strong the body is... So then I wondered:

“What is the most fragile?”

And then I thought: “Yes... relations... society, how to cope for example with strains, with this energy…

This is the most fragile… relations... what we try to do really is to strengthen relationships.” (SW) And to rediscover ourselves socially, not in places of worship, socialising or business transactions, but a shared art making creates a safe space to discover each other potential— an inward turning of outward creative energies. (DQ)

It gives space to more direct relationships, as opposed to the daily mundanity, which is based a lot on the flattening of conversations, flattening of time, which always runs short anyway, so then here your are giving your Self, your time, you go back to a way of relating that is normal, before or beyond contemporaneity.

It gives space to be able to accept that which I went through with the energy that the public gives back. This freedom from negativity I find it to be an experiential exchange of love. (NF)

I wanted to use something that is personal and social at the same time, almost anyone has some sort of phobia.( ADR)

But the necessity doesn’t lie in needing to talk about one’s Self, but to express the message, which in us is entrusted. Revealing one’s Self, revealing one’s own fragility somehow gives you strength because not hiding your own discomfort which in any case you are constantly afraid of it being revealed, gives you awareness... And awareness is everything. (K)

When we release something, we lose this sense of judgment. (SV)

Seeing their emotion, the trembling of their voices… their breath even, under the gaze of the public. (K)

You are tackling immaterial fragile relationships… And because you need to engage the audience somewhat directly, fragility has to be seen… but what happens if you don’t see anything, if you just perceive something. For some people that perception can be interesting but for some people it does nothing, that too can happen. (ADR)

I don’t know how far it goes once it leaves the room… (LC)

OK so what’s for dinner? (DQ)

Douglas Quin and Lorne Covington. Photograph © Alexander Harbaugh.

I know that things that touched me deeply in my life I still remember and have coloured my perspective, so hopefully what happens when they leave the room, who knows, you touch them in some sort of way. (LC)

It is my strong belief that something very special can happen between people, where you have to be very present both as an audience and as an artist, and there is something about our world that kind of prevents you from doing that; a lot of the time we build up resistance to that and I think performance is one of those strategies we can employ to break down the border, to

Feel. Again. Together. (HC)

In Ecce (H)omo (by Kyrahm) there is a woman in the second room.

She is listening to her partner’s tapes:

Love messages.

She was with her for 23 year.

You are there with her, your back to the wall, facing this woman’s profound love.

So I am showing you this sentiment, and this can be far more effective than a debate on the meaning of love (and the violation of human rights when societal structures neglect this on the basis of categorisations.) (ARP) Therefore, at a certain point art and activism meet and it is this, being able to use effective ways and enable the public to reach the same conclusions, vehicled by a different language, that of the heart that enabled this connection, between everyone. (K)

It is based on the simple biology of osmosis, you have a concentration of saline solution and a membrane and a concentration of lower saline solution, and what happens is the salt passes through the membrane, it is what happens in our cells, the salt passes through the membrane until the concentration of salinity are equal, that is what I think is I’m trying to look at.

I aspire to creating some sort mechanism where the flow of information in between the artist and the witness is kind of equal, where there is as much coming one way as there is the other, so what I tried to make was a series of apertures through which things would flow in both directions, in a more or less restricted way. (JM)

An encounter between people. (K)

You have this range of intensity of what you can exchange, so the value of that transaction really depends on how much you are willing to put into it. (ARP)

The creation of a link between my Self and the other,

how am I reflected in the other and how they are reflected in me. (ADR)

Sometimes, situations confront you with yourself, in whichever way and then you realise that you have a lot to work on… and the connecting link here is this recognised belief that everything is so fragile, and that we are not perfect, and that we need to connect, and we need to share, and we need to understand one another. (ARP)

Confrontation requires a great effort. (K)

some people were eager to discuss this

some people didn’t want to address it at all

and some people even rejected it. (ADR)

No matter what you feel, the very fact that you won’t understand it, that you want to reject it...

It is already too late because I planted a seed in you. (PRS)

Leisa Shelton-Campbell and Marilyn Arsem. Photograph © Claudia Popovici.

Art is a peaceful rebellion. (NF)

A form of resistance.

There are various forms of resistance. (JK)

There is no attention to the individual, which could be a universe of its own, categorical to nothing. I could even choose to be a completely transparent being, indefinable, that daily morphs its own gender, its own identity, this too can exist...

Yet convictions of what society expects from you, that perform a function, can at some point become very strong shackles of social control and to live the experience of deconstructing and re-inventing who you are (K) has to do with self-determination: I define myself based on what I feel, not based on what is imposed on me.

And the political act is that to show one’s Self for who you are, and the language of performance art is that of the body, which in any case is true to itself. A person is born with a body, like we all do and this body is ‘described’ based on notions of gender. Human society has prerequisites, it has rules; that everything should return to a gender binary. (JK) There is no acknowledgment of the various infinite shades of identity. (K) Society still expects a boy or a girl. (JK)

A society still highly patriarchal, catholically conditioned and controlled, and it shows through these issues. (K)

It has to do with the amount of differences that each individual is being exposed to – culturally, mentally, religiously spiritually; suddenly everything enters your sphere of how the other lives and it can be threatening because we are so basic, we are so simple and we need comfort, we need stability and the moment it is disrupted you instil this sense of fear; it takes a lot of self-deconstruction to be able to realise what is the faulty key in the system, in relationships, in society, but in order to do that you have to present a model or to inspire a means of communication that is uncharted, and to see it objectively

and that is really difficult because you are also part of it. (ADR)

Artivism if you may. (K)

Activism has a lot to do with reclaiming.

A neglected right that I reclaim, so most often there is a contraposition where these situations create conflicts and internal ones, too, because what I see in the world, my partner sees differently, and so you create a conflict based on differences.

The dynamic of the message is something else, and the main difference here is that in art there is no counterattack. There is feeling, there is enabling a condition to be felt, and that may just as well bring people closer, despite their clashing ideologies. Activism is frequently tied to the contrast in ideologies; in art ideologies don’t reign, there is the human experience, there is life, there is death, there is sickness, there is joy, there is love, there is suffering.

But this suffering, I try to share... there is sharing, yes, so it is a different approach that tends to shorten gaps, or perhaps even widen them, at an emotive level, because effectively I can distance myself from a strong emotion, but it is a peaceful reaction. (JK)

So rather than just talking about statistics or climate change as a political problem or an issue, I think it is important to appeal to people’s senses and emotions rather than just their intellect, so people can hear and not just be overwhelmed by data of how quickly the ice is melting or what have you…

So, what does it sound like?... (DQ)

Is that a voice? Is that the wind? (LC)

How do we relate?

We relate to one another through sight, through sound, through touch…

Alexander Del Re. Photograph © Edward Smith.

So I think the sensory engagement is a very important part of the message rather than just a data dump where people can feel overwhelmed and a bit helpless.

It becomes art as a social interaction.

The ultimate goal for us, is self-awareness but also awareness of what’s out there. (DQ)

So with all this raising of awareness, the need to communicate these ideas (because art in a way is just another tool for communication) everyone is craving answers, everyone is craving solutions, so what should an audience go home with? (ADR)

That human voices are part of a fabric of many voices. (DQ)

As an artist you can provide possibilities, ideas, or questions that can be tackled differently, and I you can rethink possibilities but I don’t think there is a solution that I can provide. (ADR)

Part of the contract of the piece is how you relate to each other and not just to the work. People then become aware of their own behaviour, and aware of other people, and that is the key for us. That you become more self-aware but also more aware of other people.

That it’s not just me, I, we, it’s us.

That dynamic is really beautiful, and people get it when they start paying attention. (DQ)

That difference of active engagement. So this is about layers of responsibility, of people’s desire to engage to take time, to go in and say “oh yep, got it” or to chose to go in and have a relationship and bid your time and to make the transaction, which some people really did, and when you see it all there, you get this really clear representation of humans.

Here we all are, here it all is. The levels with which we transact our relationships.

And that is very telling. (LSC)

An ongoing investigation of human relations. (ADR)

Bianca Bonaldi and Nicola Fornoni. Photograph © Catarina Ragg.

And now when I see people talking about progress, in my personal experience we have not progressed at all. So for me the issue of race in America is something that I experience first hand, so when I hear people philosophise or talk about these issues from this hypothetical or statistical point of view, and not understanding the experience and how it plays out, it sometimes infuriates me.

If we can postulate that human beings are free by nature, but that freedom requires a moral and intellectual responsibility, and if we live in a society where so many of us are struggling and starving while so few have so much, then what I do know is that this society is not free. So if someone says that we are scared of freedom, it means we are scared to fighting against something, because if we reach humanity that means that people won’t be in prisons, people won’t be starving, we’d be taking care of each other. I don’t know what freedom is, but I think that is what it would look like, maybe it is utopian. I think we are in a pre-revolutionary phase now, and unfortunately that’s where a lot of people don’t like me because I describe myself as an anarchist and an active nihilist. I believe that you have to burn down in order to rebuild. First and foremost, we have to organise.

I think the poor have to organise, the black have to organise around the globe, and I think everyone else will organise around, and that is why I use blackness as a political means to activate revolution. But I don’t think we would want to do that because we are constricted or tied down or bound by need, so we need things to look like this, we need our cars, we need our nice clothes, we need our bars, we need to sit in big comfort, so that is why I think the brilliance of capitalism and globalisation is that it has us conditioned, and that is how we remain slaves, so it might seem impossible, and it is impossible if we think it is impossible. We are scared of being failures, it is this conditioning, fear of being ostracised. “What do you mean you don’t have this or that?” So I think it is that condition where in essence we are perpetuating our own slavery. (PRS)

Even failure is a good thing to experience, but of course it is difficult to embrace failure, you are not supposed to, that is the problem. (ADR)

What is not freedom –

That we live like this is not freedom. We have to crush the blocks, all of them, and I think they reflect issues of sexuality, race, religion, culture, we have to question everything; all these things that we don’t want to question, all these institutions, they have to be challenged, so how far do we want to go? I am hopeful about younger generations, but at the same time

I don’t think they will be as radical; it is difficult for white children to free themselves from privilege. It’s always our responsibility to be vigilant and to stand up against the powers. And I think that to co-opt and to be a part of the system, takes over at a certain point because it is called responsibility, it is called adulthood, there are many ways to try to get the youth to change their minds. So I think it is always a thing that when people are young they are radical, they are standing for the date, they believe in freedom, they believe in these things and it is not fair to blame them, it happens with every generation. It is hard to break free.

It is hard for anybody to standalone.

And hear people talk about you and call you crazy.

I think generally humans want to love each other, or they try, but I think there is a flaw in humanity. (PRS)

And art is a tool, a social weapon. (NF)

I have encountered racism many times. Maybe more subtly, but still I experience racism every day, since the structure of our society is racist. It might not be personal to me, but still the whole structure of the society influences me as well. The stronger you are in your own history, the stronger you will seem. They listen to you because they see that there is a connection, they might not understand that but they see that something is there. I don’t expect people to do it overnight, it takes time, I’m still trying to decolonize myself, I’m not there at all and it is an ongoing thing because it is so rooted in our structures, deep into ourselves, it takes a long time, I wonder if it will be in my lifetime… and that is what I’m trying to do,

I hope that it can have an impact, that it can help people see alternatives and to move on in different directions. I am also educating myself all the time; so it is a long journey, not tiring at all, but there is a lot of work to do, for myself but also for the community as well, for the nation. (JE)

What does it mean to decolonise? (ARP)

It’s a matter of choices, its a matter of possibilities, it is a long-term work, you can’t really do it like this, I don’t know what the future will look like but I just hope that my work and what we are all doing here, is capable of changing the mindset of people, so we can have a future with more equality. It doesn’t have to be this way, the society is a structure, it is a European structure, the way it looks now. There are so many other pre-Columbian societies that looked different, not that I want us to go back to being in the jungle, but the mindset and the perception of the world could be very different, and still we could evolve and move forward in new ways. So that is what I’m trying to do, that my work will at least inspire people to think outside the box. And now we are having so much gender talk, and we are trying to give voice to so many different perceptions of what it is to be a human being.

Life is so full of nuances,

and why don’t we allow them to be there, why don’t we allow all these voices to be heard, but that is the structure that we live in, and that is the colonial structure, that it has to be one way, but the colonial structure that is in power of the world is just a structure, it could be different, it could be another structure. (JE)

It has to do with our education and the history taught across the spectrum globally is or has been authoritarian in some way. The artist’s voice is a way to deconstruct that, to say that there are histories out there and they should be prominent too. It doesn’t mean that if it is written in a history book that it is OK, because it has been published, because, the first thing that people say is “I didn’t hear that, where did you find that information, I didn’t read that.” So then that makes my story not a part of history. The thing is, you have to go on with this conversation. People throw it at you like a spit in the face, “OK I have you now and I am going to make you converse with me, I am going to make you learn how to talk…” Because a lot of people are afraid of their own memory. I see this in Germany, in Berlin, there hasn’t been this exercise of memory, they had to deal with so much since WWII, and so only specific things have been put there... Because it is too much, so there hasn’t been this exercise of memory. It should not be about victimisation, it should be about empowering all communities and being aware of it.

So the first thing that happens is that there is rejection…

Three months later the same person calls me and says,

I’ve been thinking about it…

I see it this way now.

That is history right there, I don’t need to publish it in a book. That is my reality, your reality, our reality, and that is real. I don’t need Sarkozy to tell me that Africa hasn’t entered history yet. You know? Come on… So it is very necessary.

So first I’m telling you the story you know, I’m only speaking in words, but the performance, that says everything because it transcends all of it. I don’t even need to speak, and you understand it and it’s you. It’s not about me huh. It’s about you, you are decolonizing your own body your own mind, your own history and this takes a lifetime… It is not just nine months, it is your whole life. (NB)

I’ve been thinking about this question for many years, especially when I am addressing these very sensitive and important issues, which are really relevant in some contexts. So I started to rethink some of the projects that I had based on that, also given the feedback that arose from the interactions which was so relevant that it changed the whole project. So I decided to use it as a tool, because I didn’t want to impose some idea, criteria or vision onto another human being without incorporating the feedback of other people’s point of view. (ADR) My responsibility is to keep doing what I do, and keep revealing and manifesting this cultural narrative and to educate myself so that I can be here and be here the way that I want to be, but I think it is everybody’s responsibility to educate themselves, to know where we are coming from, and to open up and get out of this colonial narrative and structure. Especially for white people it is really necessary to let go of this narrative and listen to those other voices, because there is so much to learn. Because most of the time this whole history is seen as a burden of the black people and not of whites, but it is actually a burden of the whites, too. It is so necessary for whites to let go of this structure. (JE)

I believe that responsibility never ends. Because you are an artist, you are a person, a citizen, you are fundamentally a human being, and so it is an ethical matter, and ethic doesn’t have an off switch, it is something that I carry with me constantly. It is a constant questioning of whether you are behaving in an ethical way, and of course we are humans, so we make mistakes, we even do things which we are ashamed of, otherwise the world would be a different world. And I think that paying attention, if we are able to do so, if you are able to live with the same intensity you live a performance or a theatrical act, even the most mundane aspects of human life when it comes to relationships and respect, you will have a richer life, a beauty not of aesthetics but a beauty of fulfilment that can give meaning to your life. (JK)

The responsibility of the individual is to rebel, no matter what.

What happens in a slave society, is that people don’t understand the power of the individual voice and the responsibility of this individual voice. Under these oppressed positions the way it is designed is that we are dependent upon the very system that is suppressing us, and this is why I compare racial slavery to capitalism. What they replaced with slavery (via capitalism) is something far more nefarious and far more oppressive, which is need. So we feel like we need this situation, because we have this idea of capitalism, we fetishise the Dollar, or the Euro or whatever, so our relationship to money is that we need money to live and that’s not the case. Money is a piece of paper, so our lives are invested in pieces of paper that we feel conditioned to strive for, when in fact if everyone said “Fuck this, this piece of paper doesn’t mean anything” then the system would fall, it would stop; but we fetishise, and we are taught that. So I think that the individual’s job is to see through and to sacrifice themselves, and I think that we don’t understand is that no matter how many of us want to just live our lives and be safe and secure, in order to get free you have to sacrifice, you have to be willing to die for it, because no one is going to give it to you, because the thing that we don’t understand in this capitalistic situation is that it is spreading throughout the world and it is predatory. It is designed to just crush the poor. That’s not democracy, that’s not freedom by any stretch of the imagination. So we are free no more than free-range chickens; you place animals on the farm and you just let them roam, but you are waiting to fatten them up for the slaughter house, like cows. You just put grass there and they won’t leave, you don’t even need to put fences up – and that is where we are, circumscribed by need. This is what we have to break out of, this idea that we need this way of life. Because what we don’t seem to understand is that, in fact, it’s this reality that is actually poisoning us all.

So what you are starting to see now is that there are these pockets or groups of indigenous people in different areas and I feel they all have power, and share equal responsibility (as human beings) in this struggle. For example, Native Americans are fighting to protect the land. We all have a responsibility to stand and fight with them. The strength and struggle of black people (black people have always been known around the globe as the sufferers of racial and systematic oppression) is to stand and fight to abolish the oppressive system of white supremacy – I’m specifically speaking to the construct of race and the economic institution of capitalism, and I feel that if the rest of the world identified with the black struggle then we could all come together, but so often people think that the black struggle is anti-whiteness, as opposed to looking at it like: if poor people oppressed everywhere saw what was happening to black people is inevitably happening to all of us, then you could connect. So I use blackness as a means to liberate.

Yes, first and foremost my goal is to try and liberate my own people, to wake up my people, but at the same time if black people in general are the key to everyone’s liberation, people see it, because we were the ones that were on the first row of oppression, so we saw it. So if you see that and you align with that then we start building, once you build though – and that is the thing that we don’t understand is that inevitably the enemy is going to reveal itself to you, and they are not going to give it up without a fight – but if we build together we outnumber them. But we are too scared of seeing that; if we build together the rich, the powerful, the status quo, they cannot withstand such an onslaught. But we will have to be willing to die, so I think the only way that this is going to end unfortunately is in revolution. You are talking about nations that hold power through war, so they are not going to give it up, but I think that as long as people stay afraid and say, well we have to honour the civil society, then we are always going to be enslaved. And the richer slaves too, and that’s what they don’t understand, because this is not the nature of our humanity. Our nature as human beings is freedom. We are the manifestation of freedom, so if we are not living free we are all slaves. But the rich don’t care about being slaves, they don’t care about the environment, they don’t care about women’s rights, they don’t care about equal rights for everybody. They care about their rights, and so they will do anything to hold on to that. So the responsibility of the individual is to rebel, so in my work I’m always calling up “Wake up slaves, why don’t you rebel!”

That’s what I think the responsibility of the artist is, to use that power to change the perspectives of people – even if it is difficult and also “to reflect the society.” As an artist, you can’t just go around entertaining. You have this gift, you have this power, you have this voice, so it is your responsibility to stand. And I think that artists right now in the world are the last that can stand, that can say something and change things, but I don’t think it is going to happen as long as art is cloistered away in galleries… (for consumerism), so it’s a reflection of the very society that we are living in, because the artist is so enslaved by the idea of capitalisms. The saddest thing I’ve ever seen is when I look at art in galleries cause it reminds me of animals in zoos, cause the power is taken out of it. It is like the bear over the hearth, the hunter kills the beast and the head is its trophy, so I think art kind of lives in that situation where the artists are thirsty and feel like “Oh I have to work, I have to eat and my value, my validation relies in the capitalist who buys.” So we are traded, we are commodified and our works are as objects. So I don’t think that is radical, the responsibility of the artist is to take it to the street, is to find new ways to disrupt this, to find new ways of revolutionise the society around them, and yes that can be taken the wrong way, it's like saying “What good is it to reason with slaves about freedom,” and when you talk about the phenomenology of reason – we have the gift but we are not reasoning, we are not living free, and we are okay being slaves; that's not freedom.

And some people think that doing something in the streets isn't going to change anything; there are many layers to revolutionary struggle and we have to connect the dots. The artist has a role in social change and activism but unfortunately many artists think of themselves as “I'm an artist and not an activist.”

And that’s a problem, that we aren't dealing with politics. I don't even care about being accepted in the performance art community, that's just accidental. I don't even like the term art, so I feel that the artist's responsibility is to wake up and to radicalise society, and you have to radicalise and revolutionise the minds first so the society around us has to be awake. If you’re not awake and if you're not pushing them to be awake, then they are not going to do anything. So I think the artist can do that, but then we have to be able to connect everybody. We have the responsibility of the farmer, the teacher, of the educator, everyone has a role but we have to see that and connect in order to build something of “whatever your passion is it should be the tool for your liberation.” (PRS)

And journeying through life based on a desire you had during childhood is a process of liberation. (K)

And it is easy for the white person to say it is universal.

So if I’m black, and I’m talking about these issues, but you are stuck on my blackness, my black perspective, does that not make it universal, or does it mean that you just don’t have the ability to allow yourself to go through the blackness to see your Self, this affects me too…

I can only free me and that is responsibility of the individual, I cannot free you. But what I can do is set an example and spark something in you where you say: “You know what, I’m going to free myself, too.” Then we can work together, but I can’t free everybody, I can’t do that, because many people will be like: “Yeah, I want to get free, too” but it’s easier for people to stay in a group, but people standing in a group sometimes do it for different reasons, because its fashionable, its cool… And they essentially become co-opted because what a lot of these people are looking for, is acceptance and validation through what they claim they are trying to fight against. So the responsibility is to go on a journey and to find what is liberation, what is freedom, so they have to find it for themselves, and they have to try to fight to get there. And ultimately I feel that people are not going to go that far.

Radical is dealing with the root, eradicating the root. (PRS)

I think one of the good tests you can have as an artist is the perception of the audience, because the audience can sense what is real, what is truth and not in a very instinctive way, and I think the audience is the best way to measure that because as humans we can sense this directly. (ADR)

It is easy to absorb a small amount and walk on and look at the next thing, particularly at an exhibition, but I think, generally, an audience member actually wants more than that. They want a really substantial…. really they want is a transformative experience that they very rarely get, so they don’t expect it. (JM)

It’s like with any artistic experience, you have to be open; if you come with pre-judgment then you will leave with nothing. But if you come in with an open heart then you can have a great experience, regardless of who you are.

It’s about being present and paying attention. It is so undervalued, and that is all you can ask really:

A moment of presence.

We’ve been very interested in the idea of being present and of having agency; being aware that you are changing things. On a simple level it is just being aware of your place in the world. And from the artistic context here, just being aware that you are changing things, as we are always changing things. (DQ)

You are moving in the world and the world is responding to you. (LC)

And if you close your eyes and listen, it is a completely different experience. (ARP)

In this very moment of human history you need something else, you need to create questions rather than saying: “This is the solution, don’t worry, don’t confront.” I don’t want the piss the audience off but I want to create something with the audience that can be disturbing or complex or whatever, but the audience has to resolve some situation, or else it means nothing. It is very easy to see some traditional performances where the body is doing some actions, and the actions are created well, beautifully, and that is it. Then you’ve had a beautiful experience, not to say that it is not needed, you need that too, it is part of life, but it is not the only thing you need. (ADR) That is the sort of transformation of art in our times, it serves as a social conversation for a way of being in the world. (DQ)

The privilege of being an artist is of having this vocation and being able to reach people with this. (NF)

So how do you use your privilege, how do you check your privilege, how do you really challenge yourself?

Really put your privilege where your mouth is.

If you care, really do the work,

by being very open and honest with yourself,

really take the time to look at what is around you (PRS)

to encourage… the most beautiful part here:

how people are adapting, the way people are looking, with curiosity, with respect, with so much humanity. This is the most beautiful aspect of the whole VENICE INTERNATIONAL PERFORMANCE ART WEEK.

It is a little social island of where relationships can strengthen… (SW)

And so what it is enabling are these layers of people becoming better people. (LSC)

There is a lot of cooperation between all involved, no matter their social role within the project and that is a model that is so inspiring… If you can just take a fragment of the message and transpose that into daily life, I think the purpose has been fulfilled. It’s not about the works that are being shown, but about the understanding that is elicited in the viewers… (ARP) There are trapped doors into alternative worlds, in the end it’s about these incredible bodies, rubbing up against each other, and what meanings we make together, and I think artistic work of all kinds creates the opportunities for that, which means that I’m on the lookout for these special encounters because I believe they do come between us all the time… (HC)

Breath, life, the meaning of breath, losing the breath, fragile body,

Breath is really the one thing that makes us the most

Fragile and it is the first to the last thing we’ll ever do as humans.

And when that last breath comes (JM)

It is an exhalation (LSC)

My job is

To plant seeds (PRS)

#interview #aisha ryannon pagnes #preach r sun #susanne weins #kyrahm #leisa shelton #james mcallister #julius kaiser #alexander del re #nicola fornoni #douglas quin #saso vollmaier #helen cole #lorne covington #jeannette ehlers #nathalie bikoro

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