#NOT WHATEVER THAT WAS N52 OR REBIRTH

[wrdn-tabris]

anyways everyone watch batman beyond and then read the comics im no longer asking

[abisalli]

I‘m currently working my way through some old comics and taking a lot of notes, so I’m gonna start being very annoying sorry

(and also make some panel redraws)

[bestangelofall]

One of the things I want most is for Bruce to be fully aware how his behavior and choices affect Jason so: soul bond them and bring up the past. The nature and degree of Jason’s suffering must be felt!

Thank you so much for the ask!!! I thought about this the whole time I was working today and I had to make little pauses to make some notes.

I'll put the rest under the cut because this got long 🫣

I ADORE the idea tbh, so I was thinking about how a soulbond could happen, and my favorite scenario is it happening at the ending of UTRH.

We have the Batarang incident™ and Jason is in dire need of help. Then the purple thing that first resurrected him acts again. I know that canonically that's because of Superboy Prime, but for worldbuilding purposes, I'll go with "it's a mystery and no one know wtf happened". Anyway... the—magic—either doesn't let him die, or he briefly does die and it brought back, but this time because of a soulbond with Bruce.

Why? I don't know. Magic fuckery. Something something his feelings for Bruce (hatred, love, yearning, whatever they may be) and Bruce's feelings for Jason (regret, love, disappointment, yearning, GUILT, whatever they may be) are so strong that the universe basically goes all "after all, why shouldn't I bond these two fuckers together?"

Anyway. None of them knows what happened (though Jason finds it weird to be alive, but hey, that might be just the suicidal thoughts talking, maybe the cut wasn't that bad. Maybe he gaslights himself into believing that, even if it changes barely anything about the outcome of that night).

Bruce, for his part, starts to have feelings and ~vibes~ that seem foreign to him. Even if he's deeply familiar with grief and guilt, and self-destruction, it all seems just... extreme. The profound sense of loss he feels is greater than ever before—and he doesn't understand why. He already lost his parents, he already lost Jason once, so it shouldn't feel as raw and suffocating like it does.

Oh, and the betrayal? It follows him everywhere and almost constantly. It feeds his paranoia. It all coalesces into self-destructive behavior, and he makes it everyone's problem, in a similar fashion to after Jason's death.

To put it mildly, he's not well.

No matter, he just bottles it all up as per usual, even if he suspects there is something just wrong with it all.

Both of them live their lives as usual. And here I'll mix pre-reboot/N52/Rebirth things because that's what I usually do.

Now, I thought about different ways to have the reveal.

I thought about it being in Ethiopia 2.0 (Jason feeling Bruce's grief for Damian, not understanding why he feels like he just lost someone so important to him, when, in all honesty, it shouldn't feel like that. Jason also feeling Bruce's determination and certainty bleed through onto him, and oh, when he understands what is happening, that those are Bruce's emotions, and how Bruce *feels* about taking him to Ethiopia without a care if it gets him what he wants... yeah.)

But then I thought... we don't really know how reconciliation happened in Rebirth. It's all very vague. So maybe the bond had some influence on their minds, in Jason's choice of living by Bruce's rules. The reveal could be something softer, with no one great event that forces them to realize what happened.

Realization comes to Bruce in bits and pieces. It's after he goes to confront Jason and berate him for doing something reckless (much like something that Bruce himself would have done), or after Jason drops by the Cave to bring Intel for a case they're begrudgingly working together and sees that there's a ~family event~ going on at the manor (inspired by the portrait, or by 149, for example). It's all small things that start to add up. How Bruce will feel worse after those things, a bit more suicidal, a bit more tired, even if he's learned to deal with those feelings (even as to start thinking, with time, that they are entirely his).

He consults Zatanna and gets the veredict...

His first reaction upon learning about what's going on is to bottle up things even more, because this bond is a weakness, something that could be used against him. By Jason.

Something something they both end up in a high emotions scenario (maybe the plot that leads to Rhato25 happen in a similar fashion), and Bruce uses the bond to "show Jason how much he's loved". Jason takes it all: the regret and guilt Bruce feels about him, the lasting grief.

It doesn't change anything. It just makes Jason be irrevocably sure that Bruce will never see that he's there, alive. He will only ever be something that Bruce regrets.

Sorry if this didn't go in the direction you expected but it got angstier than I intended 😭 and it has the tone of "not even a soulbond would fix their problems".

:/

Alternatively: Bruce learns about the bond after Gotham War lmao and he has a taste of his own medicine.

[misspickman]

mossy could you provide a ranking of Timothy costumes

i mean i CAN but why would you ask me this. yes i will

1. red robin

1.5 this is a joke but i do think the artist for batman blackest night making a little mistake with the rr suit and giving it the underwear over pants thing is fun. its a classic

2. unternet suit bc its a cute homage to nightwing.. i do miss the cowl. britta said this suit cant be real bc it makes tim look too cool for who he is and i agree. sick tho. i think we should bring the insane halberd/morning star/(?) back

3. one year later/kon mourning suit

4. his original robin one :) this feels too low but its hard to rank.. i think its a perfect costume for tim at that point in his life i wouldnt change a thing

4.5 winter fit

5. mr sarcastic ok people use this as an example of tim having a bad sense of fashion or whatever and thats missing the point bc the point is this was a bit. and its a great bit. he killed it. rule number one u have Got to commit to the bit. i dont know what the fuck is going on here but its funny as hell

6. the current robin suit. its whatever to me like its very similar to the original one i guess they tried to upgrade it a little bit. as a costume on its own its fine its nice but i cannot divorce it from the fact that they made tim robin again so i do always go :/ when i see it. you are never going to be her (original robin suit)

7. that red robin suit from rebirth thats just the robin suit with two Rs on it? what is that. thats just sad. on one hand i appreciate that he wasnt just straight up robin but like design wise thats the saddest attempt i have ever seen 0 effort whatsoever

8. drake costume. i just think the brown color is ugly and they shouldve let him keep the cape. i do think the whole concept of tim going by drake is kinda goofy but i dont have as much hate for it as i know most people do.. the execution was simply not good tho

9. arkham knight tim.. i feel like people mostly hate this bc of the buzzcut and his build but its like. whatever. i dont like tim with a hood thats a damian thing and feels off

10. the n52 costume? i just dont like it its too busy and ugly and i dont care about that man who is he

11. whatever the fuck was happening in gotham knights

[mamawasatesttube]

That art by cowboysorceror got me to read sotm. I’ve never read a comic in my life. I knew like.. batfam + whatever characters were in cw shows. I didn’t even know Superboy existed. I binged 100k fic with no prior knowledge of the character. Fell in love. Reread it immediately. I’ve been in dc hell for two months but if anything happens to Kon I’ll kill everyone in dc hq and then myself

omg... thank you!!! glad you liked it. (ooo you wanna read kon comics ooooo you wanna read kon comics so bad--)

unfortunately a lot of things have happened to kon at dc lately (by which i mean. since 2011) and very few of them have been good. superboy: man of tomorrow is a decent series for him, though i DEFINITELY have nitpicks about it - as iffy as i find the plot, it gets his character voice down a lot better than a lot of other rebirth comics. if you haven't heard about everything with magdalene visaggio... better that way, save yourself, plus it probably will never matter again anyway. also if anyone tells you that "kon-el" is a slur/means "abomination" they are lying to you, that's only true in the n52 continuity and was an edgy retcon. he's initially named after another member of the house of el from way back when on krypton. this is me just dumping a bunch of kon facts at you i'm so sorry but also i'm so glad you love him. he's important he's sooo good and so many fans do him so dirty. cradles him gently in my hands

[littledead-ridinghood]

"he's jesus coded", other cultures have resurrection tales, Jason is whatever flavor of pagan i find funny that day, hes definitely NOT """christian""", sorry, i DO make the rules <3

Hey, man, ya, I agree! People are allowed to project whatever they want onto characters. I love it when other people bring their own cultures into characters. I don’t know if this was sent in bad faith or not so I’m going to treat this ask as you being light-hearted but also as an excuse to share allusions!

(Also: I am not religious. I was simply raised in a religious society therefore this is me not being an expert in the matter, but highlighting what I’ve ingested in my lifetime)

Jason, though, does have a lot of biblical beats surrounding him.

The constant allusion to “La Pietà” is a very common example. The sculpture by Michelangelo is of Mary cradling her dead son after his crucifixion. A la Bruce cradling his dead body after his infamous murder. Talia cradling his comatose body as she dips him into the Lazarus pit in Rebirth. Also cover-wise: Talia on one of the Lost Days covers, Bruce cradling RH's body on Batman Annual V1 #25, and the N52 cover after Jason gets his face burnt off by the joker. Also, Jason sometimes is the one to cradle others like Duela Dent in Countdown and Rebirth as well as Bizzaro also in Rebirth.

Another easy example is the Lazarus pit, earning its name in reference to the story of Lazarus of Bethany who was dead for four days before Jesus raised him from the dead. Different branches of Christianity have stories that say Lazarus never smiled again after his resurrection due to the horrors he saw. (Other stories say he was completely unaware of himself being dead). Similar to how Jason is haunted by his murder, his resurrection, and finds no joy in being alive again.

The story of Lazarus also centers around the idea that his disease was never supposed to end in death. Rather the resurrection was supposed to emphasize the glory of God. Again, similar to role: Cosmic Mistake #3: Jason Todd who was resurrected by the universe as he wasn’t supposed to die as he did trapping him in a limbo of not supposed to be dead, but not supposed to be alive either.

Jason is often referred to as the "prodigal son" which is a biblical parable. I don't fully believe the comparison as the story focus on a younger son who squandered his inheritance. Jason absolutely did not squander anything when he left home. His mother murdered him. Jason held hard and fast to Bruce. He loved Bruce more than anything. Still loves him. He did not waste that love. And if you want to focus the family disapproval around Jason killing, well he doesn't regret the murders, so that doesn't work either. (Jason also was not welcomed back with open arms when he decided to start playing by Bruce's rules for the sake of having a family. So that also doesn't work)

Jason's memorial's famous epithet reads "A Good Solider" as the archangels of heaven are good soldiers to God.

I think Abraham using Issac as a sacrificial lamb to God is a nice, albeit a bit lofty, comparison to Bruce and his mission. Bruce (Abraham) ready to sacrifice Jason (Issac) by slitting his throat so he can't kill the Joker. Here: The mission reads as the scriptures he promises God (Bruce's conscious) to uphold and believe in. Jason is who he has to place in front and kill to have his conscious stay clean.

Being raised from the dead, as you mentioned, many cultures have resurrection stories. The trope is not unique to Christianity. But also Jesus magically rising from his grave after 6 months 3 days of death.

Oh My God, the Lucifer comparisons I could draw to this man! Okay, okay, okay, so bear with me as I talk about the tragedy of God and Lucifer.

Lucifer, the morningstar, the angel of light, was God’s favorite angel who fell after he rebelled. Raising an army due to God favoring his creation, mankind, and wanting the angels to love mankind more than they loved God. Lucifer refused to, depending on the branch and story/translation (as the reblog your referencing was about Catholic stained glass, not Christianity. Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholics. It’s a branch of the over-arching theology), bow down to the human race because they had no free will to pick and choose if they worshipped God’s son, Jesus, or not. He believed it made them unworthy of that kind of respect. As well as he couldn't stand to love them more than he loved his heavenly father, God.

This is also why Lucifer acted as a snake in the Garden of Eden, also known as "The Fall of Man", tempting Adam and Eve. As they chose to eat the forbidden apple (i.e. excepting the Knowledge of Evil as that is what it represents), the act cast them out of the garden, and they now had to deal with the consequences of being alive (think Pandora’s box), but, in the process, humanity also gained free will to make the choices we make. You can see it as a gift of agency. Eating the apple allowed us to be tempted by sin, but also make that choice for ourselves.

This act of rebellion, viewed as the original and worst of the seven deadly sins, is seen as the first act of pride (sometimes called vanity or hubris). Lucifer wanted to be seen as more important than God's creation. He wanted God's love the way humankind got God's love. Lucifer wanted God to love him as he does his lord. Thus he rose an army of angels to rebel against God.

So you have this kid, say his name is Jason and he moonlights as this child vigilante, say his moniker is Robin. Robin is supposed to be Batman's "shining light"(an angel of light, if you will imagine). Say this version of Batman's shining light, say this OG 80s run, is where people agree this Batman figure (who just happens to view himself as a god) is seen at his happiest. Say this God-like figure is forever changed due to the snuffing out of this light.

Now, say this God-figure, Batman, as we've been calling him, has this code, this "No-kill rule" where he believes anyone can become better and deserves as many chances as necessary to become a better version of themselves. Repent and forgiveness, if one may say. So even one of the most dangerous murderers in this hypothetical God-adjacent treated character's domain's history, the one who also happened to steal his "love and caring" from this "Batman", also deserves that chance.

Continuing, this "love and caring," this "shining light," returns, but is changed. He has fallen from this "No killing" code and rebels within this God's domain, bringing everything that was the norm to its knees. He stands before his father and demands his love. This love that he shares for all those who sin against him: these greedy money launders, these prideful rogues, these wrathful murders, this fallen son's wrathful murderer. This son is angry--wrathful. This son hubristically believes himself to be more important than his God's creation. He begs his father to love him more, not his creation, his mission, his oath, but him, his son. The son takes a stand for what he believes, will end all the misery himself, will do the deed himself. If the father doesn't want that to be so then he can banish his son back to his grave.

So the father banishes his son, and his son loathes--envies-- the father's creation more than he can ever say.

MY personal opinion on the Morningstar, and please don’t get angry with me Christians, this is just my experience with religion and how I was brought up, is that he just is. He’s an obvious allegory. He exists to represent something. He doesn’t have choice in what he does, he just has a job to do. I have a lot of sympathy for the devil actually. There’s that one Mark Twain quote that always stuck with me: “But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?” Completely, utterly altered my brain chemistry and how I looked at life when 10-year-old me read it. I just feel as though, just as Lucifer deserves help, I believe Jason deserves the help he needs to heal.

[cannibalisticcorpse]

do you have any recommendations for dick and jason (together or separate, both is fine) comics for someone who’s just starting to read them? i have some knowledge of the characters and batfam and i’ve read several batman comics, but i never really got into the robins-after-they-were-robins comis so i’d like to start with dick and jason…thank you so much :)

so firstly, i deffo reason waaay more jason than i do dick. most of my dick recs will be things i haven't finished reading or haven't read more than like 3 random back issues of XD

dick:

any nightwing solo is a good place to start (okay, not any, but you can find comics on readcomiconline and with an adblocker the site is useable. peruse the different nightwing runs, if it sucks drop it)

i've heard spyral is good, i think the comic might just be called "grayson"

pretty much any titans comic pre-2003 would be dick grayson (typically as robin, but not always)

there are some post 2003 titans comics with dick too

i like "the titans" (1999) the most, personally (my tip for finding the right titans run, because there are so many, is to look at the font of the title. then look at the author)

honestly if you're fine just jumping in and figuring it out as you go (which you kinda need to be), i'd sooo heavily rec that run to start you with

and, of course, there's the outsiders run from 2009 with dick and roy <3

jason:

i dont really have any robin-era jason recs, but he wasn't robin for too long, so if you're interested it's not too hard to read some!

death in the family (comic where he dies. it's weird and also islamophobic iirc, buut it's important to his backstory. not too long. im a slow slow slow heavily dyslexic reader and it only took me 2 days)

under the red hood (comic where he comes back. a longer read, but VERY fun. villain jason and competent jason. you understand the framework for all of his post-robin/post-resurrection drive)

lost days (also pretty long. i go back and forth on if i personally liked it. but it covers the time between him coming back to life and him returning to gotham- because he stayed gone even after he came back)

red hood and the outlaws n52 (i think it came out in 2011)- this comic sucks, but it's kinda fun! i really enjoy it. if you're fanfic-inclined you might like it (because it prompts a lot of fun ideas without ever presenting very many on its own and never doing anything with them). it's the origin of the jason/roy thing which i am so obsessed with

red hood/arsenal (continuation of the last comic, now without The Girl.. buut kori was written really misogynistically so, congrats kori on getting free

then there's red hood and the outlaws rebirth (which is a different team and some ppl like this comic more), then there's red hood: outlaw, i forget if there's more or whatever the order is. there's also a webtoon with the same naming scheme. im collecting the physical comic, you'd think i'd know this. but these runs are LONG.

for current comics, there's "task force z" which came out like a year or two ago, and then "joker: the man who stopped laughing" which is mostly abt the joker but also about jason hunting him and trying to kill him

jason & dick, together:

honestly i dont read too much stuff with the both of them in it? idk. jason doesn't team up with many batfam ppl on the reg, i guess. like they're never really On A Team together. most of their comics together are from Events. but dick appears in task force z, a little red hood and the outlaws too, and jason is in a little bit of outsiders. like they have cameos, i mean.

there was a nightwing annual (i think 2021) about jason & dick teaming up.

they were both in robin war (but that's the conclusion of "we are robin") (not too long, i think it took me about a week to read all 3 paperbacks)

other ppl feel free to add on!

[sporkberries]

Saw someone shitting on comics canon saying anyone who likes it can have fun with their n52 bs and whatever and its like… dc rebirth happened 7 years ago. It varies from character to character but a lot of the pre n52 canon is back in place. What are you talking about.

[ficreadergirl]

Personal headcanon: Jason could always be demisexual, where he requires a deep emotional connection between him and his partner before he'd be up for it. 👀🥰

Could be if I didn't see n52 rebirth ☺

Like we said before whatever his orientation I'm on his side 👊

[jaamytarts]

What should someone read to get to know Ivy better

Why an Ivy reading list of course! I've never really made on before but here goes: Pre n52 Batman: Hot House - My favourite Ivy story. I just love the art, the vibe. Unlike others, Ivy is very mousey looking compared to the supermodel look and she's a bit I guess quieter? as well?

Shadow of the Bat Annual 1 Gotham City Sirens - I didn't read all of GCS, I lost interest but it gives a good dynamic with harley, ivy, selina that hasn't been matched since. Detective Comics #567, 568 751, 752. by Greg Rucka Harley Quinn 2000 Black Orchid Secret Origins #36 -Neil Gaiman's origin for Ivy. Suicide Squad #33 by Ostrander. I didn't care for her in this team. n52.

New 52 sucks. Birds of Prey -it sucks but Ivy is good. Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death Rebirth

Trinity All Star Batman #7 Whatever the current thing is Poison Ivy by GWW.

Enjoy!

[cuephrase]

Thank you so much for the comic recs!! I'm just getting started on my Batfam reading journey so this is super helpful, and I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on your current reads once you're further along. On a related (but opposite) note, anything you'd say to steer well clear of, like run for the hills, hazard sign attached, avoid if at all possible? (for example, I know All-Star Batman & Robin is something I shouldn't read outside of morbid fascination)

yeah ofc! getting into comics, in my experience, was super fun and sort of overwhelming because there's so much content lol, so i hope you're enjoying it and i'm happy to help however i can :)

OMG all-star batman and robin, i still need to read that to satisfy my own curiosity, but perfect example.

so okay, i have three runs + one arcs, but i'm going to preface this by saying, read whatever you want. all three runs and one arc, i read going into it knowing they were absolute messes, but i wanted to experience it for myself. i would say to not read these first, if possible, if you choose to read them because they're just not great intros to the characters and they're not great stories, imo. lose-lose

Red Hood and the Outlaws 2011 (New 52). if you like kory and/or roy, this will be torture. if you don't know who they are, please god do not meet this iteration of them first. but if you're interested in jason, maybe you want to read it because he's there! i get that. but. there's very little, if anything, in rhato 2011 that you'll learn about jason that isn't reiterated in rhato 2016/doesn't get flat out retconned in rebirth. for example, in rhato 2011, his origin story is him stealing from leslie's clinic. that wasn't his preboot origin, and his origin gets retconned back to his preboot origin of stealing the tires off the batmobile. most of rhato 2011 just had me like ???? so bad. just so bad.

Teen Titans 2011 (New 52). full transparency- i did not even finish this run. at some point, i will probably drag myself back to it and force myself through it, but oh god. no one felt like themself. everything was wrong. i like tim's n52 red robin costume, and that's about it. i'm also not sure how much if any of this run is currently relevant in canon so like, even less reason to put yourself through it.

Tim Drake: Robin 2022. i have nothing nice to say. wait. no i do. it got some really cool variant covers. i don't want to bash the art, because i have enjoyed this artist's style in other comics, so i'm just going to be diplomatic and say it was a horrible match/fit. . as far as the writing...no, just no. this is one of 2 pieces of fitzmartin's writing that i've read and so i don't want to speak too harshly, but i really didn't like it. this whole run makes me so sad ngl. dc canonized tim's bisexuality and then supported it with this? bro. c'mon. there's already so many homophobic comic readers, they didn't need to give them "it's bad writing" ammo. genuinely would love to know the though process behind the production of this comic

the infamous Ric Grayson era, Nightwing 2016 #50-74. i just read this. i've legit been putting it off since august. it is so mind-numbingly boring for 85% of the run, first off. this is literally how most of the issues go: "i was shot in the head. i don't remember anything after the night my parents died. they told me i used to a hero. nightwing. i don't remember that. or them. they act like they love me, but it feels fake. i don't want to remember them. i'm happier this way." and then he starts running around, superheroing with a slash of black greasepaint across his face because that is just a+ identity protection and regular clothes because superhero costumes totally only serve visual purposes. and it does all get resolved in the STUPIDEST WAY, but not before the joker takes control of him and has him referring to/responding to “dickie-boy”- reading this i was either bored out of my mind or dying from the cringe. all that’s relevant is a) he lost his memories, b) he gets them back, and c) he had a girlfriend, bea. i knew all of this before i subjected myself to this run. but now i can say i’ve read every nightwing run woooooo. my LCS (local comic store) guy has been trying to get me to read it as a “rite of passage” and he was so entertained when i came in and was like “i read ric” 😐🧍suffice it to say, i do not envy the nightwing fans who had to go through that in real time. i love travis moore’s art but it was not enough to save this arc

as for my thoughts on my current readings, i post those under the tag #cue first read reactions! they’re usually not all that in-depth tbh, just me freaking out haha. if you’re comfortable, my dms are open!

tysm for your ask + i hope you have as much fun reading batfam comics as i do!!

[marybatson]

god i wanna stop thinkign abt the shzm movie franchise but until its gone compeltely from pop culture news im forced to see it so. i saw a review for the movie randomly that said that instead of it also contributing to hero movie fatigue critique alone it would also just be that its bland. and devoid of life or whatever and having seen like only movie 1 which was fine on its own i feel like the main problem here is the source content the movies are actually based on and hence just..devoid of life. because in all honesty johns did not give tht much of a shit to give billy + the other kids actual real goals trials or personal tribulations during n52. aside from the vaguest of ““found family”“ aspect of shazamily ..what else is there. its glaringly generic too because its found family in the most nuclear family way.. so the reason the movies just feel weirdly devoid of personality aside from one size fits all character tropes its like.... all because the movie sourced n52/rebirth continuity and that isnt even supposed to be a slight its literally just fact lol. 

[kingcygnus]

i just remembered when n52 introduced tim drake he wasn’t really even tim drake, but rather got that name because of witness protection to protect his parents, and then they never mentioned it again

new hc whatever the fuck was going with tim during n52 and why he didn’t feel like tim drake, is because that was a fake, the real tim drake came back in rebirth except everyone was so used to the bland tim, my guy who had acting training from alfred and had even pulled a convincing female role, had to stick to the bland perception people had of him, inside he’s still the feral tim drake we know from post-crisis

this makes absolutely zero sense but nothing in comics makes sense so now im keeping this hc

[megamind2010]

5, 8, 9...bitch

5. Favorite character?

you know this. we all know this. its not a secret. ive never hidden my nature. i am a BEETLEHEAD until i die i love ted kord he is my favourite dc character to the surprise of nobody. i love his problems and issues and i love his guilt complex and when he is mean and bitchy and holds grudges but how at the end of the day he wants to help people and is kind and selfless and would happily die for a good cause. and i love that he gave himself an insect special interest for the sake of his dead college teacher. and. i love that he is autistic. much more to be said. runners up include renee montoya. ray terrill. grant emerson (NEW addition) of course booster and the rest of the jli. my sweeties

8. Pre-N52 or N52?

why are you asking me this you just want me to be a hater. i know n52 was good for batman or whatever but as a diehard c-lister liker i wish comics after 2011 would go to hell. n52 killed the promised jlgl continuation n52 made the jli soulless n52 made ted ugly n52 was not fun for me and i dont like it. actively do not enjoy n52 comics featuring my favourite characters. Because they arent them anymore. look koby i just woke up youre appealing to my hater nature but i have to cut it here or ill get too angry

9. Rebirth or N52?

rebirth by default because at least ted is there. i have my opinions on him in jaimes rebirth series and what it does to his backstory (i.e. takes it out back and shoots it) but he has some fun moments & when rebirth kind of bleeds into modern comics where ted and booster are friends again... well theres that i suppose. rebirth also gave me the monkeys paw of making ray canonically gay but taking away most of his character & leaving him a boring homosexual husk. well the real answer here is i like comics from before 2011 and you know it

[ultfreakme]

11k notes and this entire thing is filled with misinformation after misinformation. Headcanon Bruce to be whatever you want but leave Clark and Kon out of this because Clark was NOT a bad dad, hell Kon and Clark don't even have a precise father-son relationship. Their relationship is difficult to categorize on purpose because Kon can be like a brother or a cousin as well. Clark did not take the existence of Kon well at the START. But he accepts him and respects the kid very quickly.

Kon's name being a slur was a N52 thing with Kara, and it's been made obsolete and retconned. Here is how Kon-El really came to be:

Lex is not a good father or anything to Kon either. In Rebirth, Kon didn't technically exist in their universe yet but Clark was great about Kon:

(Action Comics 1022)

Clark really wants to help Kon, he is upset he doesn't remember him when everyone else does. CLARK CARES! He cares a lot even if the initial reaction to the news about how Kon came to be freaked him out. Which is understandable, because he did not consent to any of this but he accepted and guess where Kon is now? Guess who he hangs out with now? Superfam.

People act like Clark being a bad caretaker/sibling figure for Kon is canon when it is entirely fanon. Clark is a flawed parental figure, he is flawed with Jon too, but he tries his best and grows. Fuck everyone saying Clark Kent is worse than Bruce "I have given 5 Robins issues about themselves" Wayne as a guardian. I am DONE.

clark, discussing what to do about kon with bruce: you know what this means right?

bruce, nodding: yeah, you owe luthor a buttload of child support

clark: what - i - no??

bruce: i mean, it sucks that he baby trapped you but you don’t want to be a deadbeat

clark: he did not - i am not his father, luthor stole my DNA and put that [pointing at kon] into a tube

bruce: i want you to take one good look on how damian came to be

clark: … oh my rao… i am dead beat aren’t i?

[thesummerstorms]

So I didn't start reading comics as a kid.

(lots of rambling beneath the cut, though having just finished after writing, maybe the take away is 'N52 was not actually inviting as someone trying to get into comics for the first time'.)

At one point in high school I had some Green Arrow/Black Canary back issues my former step dad bought me when we went into a comic book store at complete random (he bought my then 9 year old brother Simpsons comics and then we never went back) but I was broke teen with no job who did not live in that area and did not pursue much further.

I didn't consider picking up comics until I was in college, and then I mostly started with Marvel because it was early days of the MCU and I saw a lot of the movies with friends. Other than Winter Soldier, I wouldn't say most of them stuck with me or were the best movies ever, but it did get me interested.

The DC movies on the other hand did not get me interested. The DC live action movies mostly sucked.

DC got my money, however, due to my childhood obsession with Dinah, specifically, from Justice League/Justice League Unlimited. (And her relationship with Ollie, I guess, but I wasn't super interested in him without Dinah.) PLUS my preteen fascination with the 2003 Teen Titans.

(That one was harder to carry over because as fun as the 2003 series was the characters were very different lol. They do NOT go into "Robin" and "Starfire's" full traumatic back stories or more adult characteristics in the 2003 stuff.)

So I just looked to see what my first DC purchases on Amazon + Comixology even ended up being and...

I clearly made my first attempts pretty soon after New 52? There is a New52 Batgirl book in the list right above Birds of Prey.... And then nothing DC for literal years.

So much Marvel and Star Wars, even a few non Big 2 things. No DC except rentals for the animated movies and shows.

I bought one digital issue of Green Arrow/Black Canary in 2014, and then DCdoesn't show up on my Comixology account until 2016 with Wonder Woman Rebirth.

Even though that whole time from 2014 on I was still buying the main SW comic, Darth Vader, Princess Leia, Wicked + Divine. I was buying anything I could with Black Widow (the Rucka book was a favorite, and I also read whatever the series was called with Bucky as Cap, dating Natasha. I kept that trade for a while, too.)

Apparently I didn't even pick up RHATO (which I mainly read bc a) sale and b) bulk purchase until then c) what the fuck is happening to Starfire morbid curiosity means I need to see it end) until 2018.

But you could not like at any point call me serious about the actual DC comics (again, I watched ALL the animation) until I apparently bought every single volume or issue of the 2016-2019 Green Arrow run (I cannot REMEMBER any of the plot, but I definitely READ all of it) , which finally lead somehow to the 2009 Batman and Robin run (which I bought and read all of in the span of a few days in 2020), then DCeased and Justice League Odyssey.

And now I'm actively trying to go back to some of the older stuff + looking for current publications to read. (I want to like Titans but it's very very hit and miss for me. I read one volume of TT's Nightwing and gave up.)

But like, I just feel like I could have very easily been an "easy" new fan for DC to grab since I had literally never heard of Marvel before the MCU but grew up with all the DC characters. My Uncle is STILL Superman's number one fan, my ex-uncle (? Aunt's ex husband) would throw any DC with Batman at us that he could when we were kids.

But I bounced SO HARD off on New 52 that they literally could not get me actually hooked until 2020, even though I started buying comic stuff in 2014.