#Mt oriander
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After Middling's show at Mahall's with Vs Self, Knumears, and Mt. Oriander!
So insanely happy to be playing music with my friends and to get chances like this to play with bands I look up to.
Life rules :)
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random ass mental thoughts related to mother that my weirdo brain thought up with no rhyme or reason or care for balance or what not #1(?)
Mother series 4v4 tag fighting game >>If you combo long enough, the background slowly shifts to one of the battle backgrounds from mother 2 and 3 >>mother 3's characters would have the rules be different for them with this: they gotta rhythm combo like in the source material roster: >MOTHER 1: Ninten, Lloyd, Ana, Teddy, Pippi (with a raging demon super (that akuma attack people think is funny) for the joke of it), Giegue (Giygas could be seen in some supers), Reab Yddet (with a Sky Yddet's final blow as a max meter super), Dr. Distorto (puppet archetype where he summons Duncan's Factory enemies to beat your ass), Barbot (imagining this lanky dude in a fighter is hilarious, could be kinda a joke character) >MOTHER 2: Ness, Paula, Jeff, Poo, Porky (in his Spider Mech, M3 Porky could be an alt), Frank, Belch, Mad Taxi (with Mad/Psycho Cars as alt costumes), Carbon Dog (with Diamond Dog install/transformation) >MOTHER 3: Lucas, Kumatora, Duster, Boney, Flint, Salsa, Masked Man (him or normal Claus, unsure), Fierce Pork Trooper, Lil' Miss Marshmellow, Fassad (maybe?) >MULTI-GAME: Hippie, Starman, Mook Stages: MOTHER 1: Podunk Outskirts, Magicant, Duncan's Factory, Snowman, Yucca Desert, Downtown Ellay, Live House, Mt. Itoi (Base), Mt. Itoi (Summit) MOTHER 2: Onett, Giant Step, Peaceful Rest Valley, Threed, Andonuts' Lab, Dalaam, Fourside, Stonehenge Base, Saturn Valley, Fire Spring, Cave of the Past MOTHER 3: Tazmily Village Square, Sunshine Forest, Mt. Oriander (Drago Plateau), Osohe Castle, Death Desert, Chimera Lab, Tanetane Island, Chupichupyoi Temple, Empire Porky Building (Construction Floor), Final Needle's Resting Place
sorry for bothering y'all with weirdness, just had this on the brain and felt the need to share the idea
#mother series#mother 1#mother 2#mother 3#earthbound beginnings#earthbound#mad ramblings#ninten mother 1#ana mother 1#lloyd mother 1#teddy mother 1#ness earthbound#jeff andonuts#paula earthbound#poo earthbound#lucas mother 3#kumatora mother 3#duster mother 3#boney mother 3
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if you have ever enjoyed empire! empire! (i was a lonely estate) or midwest emo in general you have a duty to listen to the mt. oriander LP
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The original placement of Chapter 3's ending
This table suggests that the ending of Chapter 3 may have originally been planned to take place in the Mt. Oriander river area, rather than in the heart of the Sunshine Forest.
https://tcrf.net/Mother_3/Unused_Tables,Objects%26_Maps#Map_012_-Table.234_.28Unused.29
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"I'm supposed to be protecting you."
↪ ᵗʰᵉ 𝑫𝑼𝑺𝑻𝒀 𝑻𝑶𝒀𝑩𝑶𝑿: @pktearsoftazmily
[ Under most sets of circumstances, the disguised alien tended to be rather –independent in his exploration of various areas (and separate worlds entirely even, within and beyond this universe itself). It was just better that way and more often than not, spared him the trouble of having to play a role that admittedly (even though it’s just pretend) never fails to hurt his pride, even if only in a marginal amount. But this time, the more efficient approach–one which effectively kills several ‘birds with one stone’, as the human saying goes, somewhat–was to obtain a guide for an especially rugged, broken-down, and maybe dangerous (read: a touch more exciting, if only for the astronomically tiny challenge it would provide) area. The Drago Plateau situated on Mt. Oriander. There was a supposed shortcut there that he had wanted to see–for the experience itself if nothing else–and upon parsing through several people inhabiting Nowhere islands, he had gotten the Chosen One, Lucas to agree to assist him. An optimal outcome. This way, he can explore and document his various observations and findings of the area while observing Lucas a little more closely. A ‘win-win’ scenario as many humans would exclaim.
From that, soon enough the two of them were in a notoriously dark cavern system named ‘Murki Cave’ with Lucas leading the way and Gregory himself dutifully following behind, just a few steps behind. Lucas had to be the one in front. He was the guide and the one who would protect the disguised alien from any threat posed within it. And accordingly, the journey progressed smoothly for the first half of it or so, until just after crossing the threshold around said ‘halfway point’... the Psion noted movement from something under the guise of a rock. While Murki cave was considered to be dark… for Gregory himself, it was as clear as day; an innate ability granted to him by what he is… though even without it, he had already long since psionically detected that there was more to this… thing (a ‘Crag Lizard’ if his recollection is correct) than superficial appearances would otherwise imply. A movement perhaps so subtle that it had not yet caught Lucas’ attention. A definitive precursor to something much sharper. And so, right as the Crag Lizard jutted out of its position in an abrupt strike laden with violent intent, Gregory perfectly times his counter move and proceeds to rather roughly grab the back of Lucas’ shirt–a rather blunt and rigid ‘Move’ uttered in-between–and jerk him straight out of the attack’s trajectory, taking a few steps back himself as he does so.
From a somewhat safe distance from the Crag Lizard, the disguised alien rather intently observes it crash into a cave wall before seemingly deciding that the two of them aren’t worth the effort and waddling off into a deeper part of the cave. He then turns to Lucas so as to assess his physical condition, but before he can do anything of value, the human decides to say something first.
"I'm supposed to be protecting you."
‘Protect you’. Hm. That alone causes his mouth to twitch, almost dipping into a definitive downward curve, before instead flattening itself out into a straight and rather rigid line. ‘Protect you’. It’s so odd to have such a statement be made about him. Odd because he has never existed as something to be protected. At worst, others have needed protection from him. It’s just a role that he had elected to play here in order to advance his own goals. And so, the sentiment feels unwarranted. Like a lie. But it isn’t. Not for Lucas. The human is being genuine and admittedly, though this interaction is purely transactional on the Psion’s part, it does mean something, even if just a little bit. Small hands bunch up together just a little tensely–allowing a beat to pass to devise an appropriate response rather than simply relying on his first instinct–before he rather stoically responds, expression blankly neutral yet somehow sincere in its own way. ]
—-‘I know. But, I do not want to be an inconvenience.
It would be… –‘wrong’ of me, I think, to otherwise do nothing when I could be of use for a given situation. It is unnecessary for you to be harmed when such an outcome is entirely avoidable.
I hope that you understand.’
#pktearsoftazmily#whoo! here we go! Please excuse the length it was mainly setup#well THAT and that line of dialogue really made Greg pause to think about it a bit lol#it's something he really hears and really he never actually thought of himself as something that needs#to be protected because he's a hyper-competent and capable person in general on top of being#a literal genius and prodigy PSI-user
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The Breakdown Is BACK!
The Monthly Segment Hosted By @ivahka_glass Where We Sit Down 1 On 1 With Underground Creatives To Dive Into Their Careers Has Returned.
Episode #2 Is LIVE w/ @MtOriander
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Follow Mt. Oriander: linktr.ee/mtoriander
Follow Ivahka Glass: @ivahka_glass
Art By: @ivahka_glass
Make sure you visit our homepage here: allmusicmondays.com
Join our discord for the best place to discuss your music, art and much more: discord.gg/qDhRqptdCc
#underground music#music monday’s#music#music blog#youtube#underground#underground podcast#podcast#new music#music reviews#musicpodcast#soundcloud#alternative#podcast music#independent#music mondays#art
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You have been out of my life for longer now than when you were in it The anniversary quietly slipped by like the end of a low tide, when water returns to nestle in the coastline There were no processions, there were no speeches I did not utter your name I rarely think about you anymore When we last met, we were barely speaking Silence draped like a scarf around your neck-- loose, aloof, trying too hard to seem carefree Your last words were never meant to be a parting gift, but they ripped right through my chest, "There are some things that cannot be repaired When it breaks, it is broken for good I know there is still love there, but it hurts too much to bear" I argued, I pled, I did not choose my words carefully I would have said anything to make you stay But you looked at the sidewalk instead and we sat with it I think now I never really knew you
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ang daming mga bagong labas na album at kanta na hindi ko pa halos madigest o mapakinggan ng tuloy tuloy. pahapyaw ko pa rin lang pinapakinggan yung midnights ni mareng taylor. madalas kong pakinggan ngayon ay sunday's best ng tidal saka itong then the lightness leaves and I become heavy again ng mt. oriander. may mga new single din ako na pinapakinggan gaya nung risk it ni alisson shore, the perfect pair ni beabadoobee, living will or living well ng their/ they're /there at marami pang iba. kung need nyo ng mga bago o iba sa pandinig nyo pwede ko naman isend mga pinapakinggan ko. yung nasa taas ang ilan sa pwede nyo subukang pakinggan.
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Paul Silver from Jersey Beat reviewed the new @mtoriander LP, 'Then the Lightness Leaves and I Become Heavy Again': "...it’s wonderful to hear Mt. Oriander bring this sound back." Read the entire review above and pick it up on vinyl from our webstore (link in bio) or cassette from @friendclubrecs. #MtOriander #JerseyBeat #thenthelightnessleavesandibecomeheavyagain #cyls #CountYourLuckyStars #friendclubrecords #emo #emorevival #indie #midwestemo #indierock #music #musicreview #review #alternative https://www.instagram.com/p/CkI8xB5LIk7/?igshid=NGJjMDIxMWI=
#mtoriander#jerseybeat#thenthelightnessleavesandibecomeheavyagain#cyls#countyourluckystars#friendclubrecords#emo#emorevival#indie#midwestemo#indierock#music#musicreview#review#alternative
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october 2022
1. cavetown - 1994 2. emperor x - freeway in heaven 3. field medic - stained glass 4. maya hawke - backup plan 5. madison cunningham - collider particles 6. lucy dacus - it's too late 7. men i trust - billie toppy 8. michelle branch - fever forever 9. kate bollinger - running 10. noah cyrus - loretta's song 11. alex g - immunity 12. hyena - then i saw the light 13. frankie cosmos - f.o.o.f. 14. sorry - key to the city 15. remember sports - leap day 16. paramore - this is why 17. the beths - when you know you know 18. sleater-kinney - words and guitar 19. daisy the great - liar 20. tigers jaw - old clothes 21. the darling fire - heart will stop 22. expert timing - special hell 23. malegoat - moldy records 24. thrice - open your eyes and dream 25. city of caterpillar - in the birth of a fawn 26. suis la lune - postlude to 5 years of hurting 27. birds in row - cathedrals 28. poppy - fyb 29. pohgoh - hammer 30. mt. oriander - if this is sadness, i don't like it one bit 31. the early november - five years 32. armor for sleep - new rainbows 33. rush week - fade to black 34. kainalu - inhibitions / intuitions 35. magdalena bay - unconditional 36. bazzi - dlma </3 (feat. lany) 37. royal & the serpent - im fine 38. maggie lindemann - phases 39. kailee morgue - queen bitch 40. tillie - realitie bites 41. chloe moriondo - cdbaby<3 42. roy bing - met someone (feat. banoffee) 43. emily vaughn - can we just practice? 44. julia wolf - get off my 45. lolo zouaï - pl4yg1rl 46. mura masa - demon time (with bayli) 47. alaina castillo - party in my head (ur not invited) 48. zolita - 20 questions 49. shygirl - shlut 50. tate mcrae - uh oh 51. mxmtoon - plastic pony 52. mac wetha - play pretend (feat. spill tab) 53. georgia webster - tattoos 54. dodie - got weird 55. nina cobham - self care 56. charlie houston - what do we do now? 57. bülow - something in the way 58. ayelle - get away 59. upsahl - antsy 60. willow - curious/furious 61. snny - weightless 62. björk - atopos 63. yeah yeah yeahs - wolf 64. kelsea ballerini - subject to change 65. carly rae jepsen - talking to yourself 66. astrid s - come first 67. neggy gemmy - gemmy juice 68. florrie - falling back to you 69. fletcher - serial heartbreaker 70. rina sawayama - hurricanes 71. blackpink - typa girl 72. fcj - all day 73. snail's house - bossa love 74. jessie reyez - mood 75. chymes - see you in hell 76. ari lennox - pof 77. sampa the great - lo rain [feat. mwanjé] 78. femdot - los tacos no.1 79. dreamdoll - ice cream dream (feat. french montana) 80. lil nas x - star walkin' (league of legends worlds anthem) 81. madison mcferrin - stay away (from me) 82. teen daze - new spirits 83. ellen arkbro - love you, bye 84. copeland - chin up https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4kxGo0qSvd0oKLrGTZuJ9E?si=a34672957d584fe6
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THIS IS NOT THE WAY I WANTED YOU TO FIND OUT//MT. ORIANDER Keith's (of E!E!IWALE) latest project to hurt our feelings
tracklist: 1. It's Always Been Wankershim 2. If I Fail to Return, Cast It into the Bugross Sea 3. Dream Ruby Glitch 4. I'm Never Going to Say My Lines Faster than Jamie Taco 5. Nothing after Nothing Came Bursting Out
support the band here
full album download here
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The Blue & Orange Morality of the White Lion and the Life Givers of Oriande
Prompted by an Ask, this very long post examines the White Lion and its condition for obtaining the knowledge of Altean Alchemy.
“Hi! I can't stop thinking about White Lion. Why is the condition for obtaining the knowledge so stupid? Give up your life? If anything, Allura wanted that knowledge for personal reasons (being Altean, father's daughter etc.), while Lotor went there with a purpose—he needed that knowledge so his own “Voltrons” would work with Alteans from Colony. It seems natural to fight, when lives of people depend on your success. And how did Haggar get that knowledge?”
My answer as to these questions—especially the White Lion and its condition for obtaining knowledge—is to deep dive into some meta and analysis by:
Skimming some literary and mythological concepts that relate to the Life Givers of Oriande and the White Lion via the basics of the Quest for Secret & Sacred Knowledge
Comparing VLD and the Prometheus and Alien: Covenant films where this quest appears
Exploring the requirements for entry to Oriande and the price of obtaining Secret & Sacred Knowledge in VLD
And how that applies to Lotor, Allura, Haggar, and Alfor
First, some context: There is a Reason™ why certain tropes, and certain types of plot lines, and certain types of character arcs are bundled together and progress in certain ways. These combinations are Timeless. Generally speaking, they work well so long as one follows the unwritten rules that bind them together. Their predictability can be offset by a skilled and clever writer. These combinations are the building blocks of Ur Stories, and many Ur Stories (and their contemporaries) involve Quests for Secret & Sacred Knowledge.
The White Lion’s strange condition for obtaining knowledge is one found in many such stories, told in myriad ways, and is one of the oldest concepts in human story-telling, hence why it almost always appears bundled with certain tropes, plot lines, character arcs, etc.
From Odin’s unyielding quest for knowledge and willingness to pay any price for it, to Prometheus’ defiance of the Gods to give mortals the Gift of Fire, to Victor Frankenstein’s ‘dangerous pursuit of knowledge’ resulting in the tragic creation of a monster, to Enkidu’s tryst with Shamhat leaving his physical prowess diminished but his mind expanded, and throughout many more such stories; the following theme emerges: When knowledge is gained, something is lost.
The loss can be intentional (e.g. sacrifice) or unintentional (e.g. consequences).
In many stories with a similar setup, the White Lion and the Life Givers of Oriande would be a case of Blue & Orange Morality (this is not the same as being “morally gray”). In these kinds of stories, the Keepers of Knowledge often judge worthiness in a completely different way from that of the Knowledge Seeker, and they may even be pulling the strings for their own purposes that are incomprehensible to those who seek their knowledge. Their requirements for the gift of knowledge fulfills their own morality, and one to which they adhere, but that morality has little resemblance to what a Seeker of Knowledge may believe in…unless that Seeker learned their ways and began to practice them.
The Secret & Sacred Knowledge is for the taking by whomever is willing to pay the price, meaning that even the most vile and evil being that ever lived could gain the Knowledge for their own use. Thus the Keepers of Knowledge are not bound by a morality that would require them to prevent access by the evil and wicked. The only time the Keepers will care (e.g. divine retribution of some kind) is when the rules for gaining or using that knowledge are broken or some line is crossed by a prideful mortal. While there are stories where the morality of Keepers of Knowledge align with a general black-and-white morality of good and evil, Oriande and associated Altean-related concepts (not to mention, the Voltron lions) do not consistently give off the usual and unambiguous signals of black-and-white (e.g. good vs evil) morality.
Part I: Breaking the Keeper's Rules (two examples).
The titan Prometheus’ punishment for defying the Keepers (e.g. Zeus and the gods) is to be bound to a rock for an eternity as an eagle eats his constantly regenerating liver each day; and
Victor Frankenstein has no deity to punish him for his God-defying scientific experiments, but tragedy finds him anyway.
In both of these examples, the knowledge gained came with a heavy and tragic price.
In example of Prometheus, (there are several versions) he is moved by the plight of mortals, their hard lives could be made better with the Gift of Fire (e.g. Knowledge), a gift that is jealously guarded by Zeus and the gods on Mt. Olympus. In some versions, the mortals already had the Gift of Fire, but Zeus took it from them out of anger of a trick played by Prometheus which benefitted the mortals in the form of sacrificial offerings. Either way, Zeus and the gods have a Blue & Orange morality. Prometheus’ intentions were noble and good, but his means via trickery broke the arbitrary rules of the gods (e.g. the Keepers of Knowledge). Why would the gods withhold this gift if it could do good? Because in the wrong hands, Fire can be weaponized and used for destruction. Remember that because we’ll return to this as VLD gives us a subtle Promethean character arc.
In the example of Victor Frankenstein—from Mary Shelley’s “Frankenstein; or The Modern Prometheus”—he takes his obsessive pursuit of knowledge, the secrets of life and death, too far in the name of science. He realizes too late the horror that he has created, and abandons his creation (the monster that is erroneously called Frankenstein outside of the story). Frankenstein's monster gradually destroys his life by murdering friends and family, even framing him for it. Shelley’s use of “The Modern Prometheus” as the subtitle of her novel intentionally invokes the myth of Prometheus and the divine retribution he suffered for his transgression against the Keepers of Knowledge. The punishment delivered to Frankenstein is a strange kind of black-and-white morality, as it is the price paid for transgressing Natural Law through science. One could call it “natural retribution” in absence of the divine. Here, the Keeper of Knowledge is simply Nature itself.
Above, Honvera rebukes Alfor’s caution: “The ancients thought that lightning was shot from the bows of the gods until science proved otherwise. We must always push into dangerous territory in pursuit of knowledge.”
In VLD, Honerva’s Frankenstein-like obsession with quintessence, and her willingness to push further—to break natural boundaries in pursuit of knowledge—is her undoing. Honerva’s tragedy does not stop with herself and her family, as the price of knowledge gained is paid for by the entire universe for 10,000 years.
Part II: The Quest for Secret & Sacred Knowledge In Space.
In Season 5 of VLD, the basic template of a Quest for Secret & Sacred Knowledge appears in the form of the journey to Oriande. The same basic quest template also appears in the Prometheus and Alien: Covenant films.
Above, a summary: A pretty, well-spoken, ageless, pale-haired man with a British accent is used-and-emotionally-neglected by his powerful father whom he grows to despise and is treated badly and distrusted by his father’s kind. The father is prideful and has a bit of god complex. After his father’s well-deserved death, the man embarks upon a Quest of Secret & Sacred Knowledge held in a far-off utopia guarded and/or inhabited by Ancient Keepers of Knowledge. His companion to this utopia is his love interest, a petite and well-spoken woman with a British accent who is stronger than she looks, and is instrumental to finding the star map that initiates the quest to begin with. The sought-after secret knowledge has themes of life and creation. These secrets are yielded through life sacrifice and prove to be dangerous in the wrong hands.
I’m not saying that VLD ripped off Prometheus and Alien: Covenant but here we are...
The starting premise of Prometheus is that an exploration mission to planet LV-223 is organized by Peter Weyland, an old and dying CEO who bankrupts his corporation to pay for this mission. He is desperate to find humanity’s creators—called “Engineers” by Elizabeth Shaw and Charlie Holloway—firm in the belief that they will grant him immortality. The location of LV-223 is revealed through the discoveries of star maps in the form of cave drawings by Shaw and Holloway.
Above: Upon arrival to LV-223, the crew discovers a temple and within it are urns containing a mysterious black goo, as well as long dead remains of some Engineers. They quickly discover that this black goo has strange and unexpected properties. It doesn’t go well for them, after all, this is the prequel to the Alien franchise.
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Above, content warning: None. The video clip above shows the discovery of the mysterious urns within the Engineer temple.
So we’ve got cave drawings that function as a star map, a temple constructed by ancient creators keeping the secrets of life, and a mysterious substance that can create powerful monsters via its transmutational properties.
Above: in addition to being an unobtanium power source, some forms of quintessence can have transmutational properties as with the black goo in Prometheus.
Below: a xenomorph derived from a chain of gradual evolutions that began with the black goo and an unlucky victim, and Ranveig’s super weapon, the horror- monster-esque result of experiments with the strange quintessence.
In both Prometheus and Alien: Covenant, this black goo—called “Chemical A0-3959X.91 – 15”—is a weaponized mutagenic pathogen that delivers a modern sci-fi twist on transmutational alchemy and transformation potions. Chemical A0-3959X.91 – 15 evolves non-botanical life, by first destroying it, and then creating something new out of that which it comes into contact.
Above: Krolia tells Keith about the quintessence that the BoM have been tracking (two separate scenes). “We’re going after the enriched quintessence that created Ranveig’s super weapon. [...] It was unlike any other quintessence we’d seen. [...] and it has some very unexpected effects.”
How strangely familiar all of this is! Let’s continue.
The Engineers, creators of human life, and their morality:
Throughout Prometheus, the Engineers—the Ancient Keepers of Knowledge—are revealed to embody a Blue & Orange Morality and are the creators of human life (among others) and they sometimes return to judge their creations.
Above: An Engineer asks, “Why does he [Weyland] want more life? What makes this man so great as to ask such a thing?”
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Above, content warning: Video clip of extended/deleted scene where David 8 speaks with an Engineer and Weyland asks for immortality. There is a quick decapitation (bloodless because David 8 is a Synthetic) and some quick impact deaths. No gore. Use the YouTube gear/settings icon to turn on subtitles to see what the Engineer is saying.
Addition/Edit: The video clip above doesn’t link anymore and Tumblr wont’ let me add another video, so here’s the URL until I can re-edit this properly to fix it.
Above: the Engineer directs his cold stare at Elizabeth Shaw who wants answers as to why they were lured to LV-223 to find the weaponized pathogen. She asks “Why do you hate us?”
The Engineers created humanity and have a detached will to wipe the slate clean and start all over again, sacrificing their own lives in the act of new creation. Within their their beliefs and morality, creation and destruction are intertwined. It is death that begets life. What Elizabeth Shaw sees as hate, is just the Engineers’ way of perfecting their own flawed creations. Nothing personal.
The morality of the Engineers later corrupts David 8 (who was already morally gray) during his years of studying them, as he learns their ways during The Crossing, which takes place between Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.
Below: David 8 and Elizabeth Shaw operate the navigation system of the Engineer’s ship in The Crossing.
Above: after Shaw is put to sleep in a cryobed, David 8 is left alone to study the Engineers for the remainder of their journey. When they arrive, he has learned their ways and has come to a grim decision of what to do with their weaponized mutagenic pathogen.
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Above content warning: None. This promo video ends just before David 8 unleashes the Engineers’ own weapon against them upon his arrival to their utopia.
Above: If y’all thought Lotor was dramatic... David 8 overlooks the destruction and cries while reciting a line from Ozymandias. “Look on my works ye mighty, and despair.”
Below, content warning: Video clip with body horror and abstract gore, slightly obscured by dim lighting and desaturated colors during David 8’s destruction of the Engineers.
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As these video clips and images show, the ways of the Engineers—their philosophy and morality—lead David 8 into crossing the Moral Event Horizon. He becomes both a God-Slayer (destruction of the Engineers) and a Creator of Life (cultivation and creation of the Xenomorphs).
About mid-way through Alien: Covenant, David 8 is revealed to have betrayed the person he loved, Elizabeth Shaw, by using her for organ harvesting. The harvesting was necessary for the creation and cultivated evolution of the perfect life-form: the Xenomorph (I’ll spare y’all the images of that).
Through his mastery of the Engineers' knowledge, David 8 becomes the Greater Scope Villain of the Alien franchise. His story is one of triumph. He wins against those who wronged him, against the father that used him and considered him soul-less (thus less than a human), against the humans that created him to be used, and against the Engineers that created a humanity that he sees as unworthy of the gift of creation in the first place. A gift denied to David 8 because he is a Synthetic. All it cost David 8 to gain this gift of knowledge was the sacrifice of the only person who was kind to him (and possibly loved him, that's unclear).
The loss-and-sacrifice of Shaw fulfills the Sacred Knowledge Quest rule that: when knowledge is gained, something is lost.
Above: an Engineer uses the black goo to transmute his own body in order to seed non-botanical life on Earth.
The off-screen sacrifice of Shaw’s life echoes the beginnings of human life shown in the opening of Prometheus where an Engineer seeds life on Earth by sacrificing himself via the pseudo-alchemical transmutation of his own body.
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Above content warning: Abstractly graphic. Not bloody, but the Engineer’s body is slowly disintegrated while being transmuted by the black goo. No gore.
An eerily similar Quest for Sacred & Secret Knowledge mixed with horror appears in VLD, spread out between Lotor’s actions prior to the start of the series, the journey to Oriande in Season 5, and the events in Season 6.
The Life Givers and Altean Alchemy:
In VLD, the Keepers of the Secret & Sacred Knowledge of Altean Alchemy are called the “Life Givers” by Lotor, and the “Sages” by Allura. As shown in the image above, they are described by Lotor as “the first Alteans to unlock the secrets of Oriande, the beginning of Altean Alchemy.”
One of them—presumably a Life Giver—is later shown without corporeal form when speaking with Allura after she passes the White Lion’s trial. Allura is told that she is in the realm of her ancestors—the Alteans and Life Givers—implying that she is one of them for she is “home”.
Above: the cosmic voice tells Allura “You have returned to the realm of your ancestors, the Alteans and the Life Givers who came before. [...] You are home, and the secret is already within you.”
For those keeping score: Life Givers = Engineers.
The morality of the Life Givers is unclear as story events—and the aforementioned bundle of Timeless tropes and concepts—suggest Blue & Orange morality, while the implied traits and other in-story associations thus far (ahead of S8) with the Alteans and Alfor suggest that the Life Givers of Oriande embody a morality of Perfectly Good Pureness in opposition to the Galra’s presumed Horribly Evil Darkness. It’s upon examining the actions and beliefs of the Alteans—and thus the Life Givers—that a superficial black-and-white morality starts to give way to a Blue & Orange morality that is incomprehensible in various ways (e.g. the White Lion’s strange condition for obtaining knowledge).
Like David 8, Lotor learns of the Life Givers’ ways prior to arrival at the utopia, only in his case, he does so without realizing it and his understanding is warped by being raised in the Galran belief system. Here, their ways—to give of one’s life, and/or that life must be sacrificed to obtain knowledge—are associated with the Alteans and Lotor's study of Alfor’s work, Altean culture, artifacts, and ancient drawings (until the story unambiguously shows otherwise). Unlike David 8, Lotor’s sacrifice and quintessence harvesting of those who loved-and-worshipped him occurs before entering the utopia (if the events described by Romelle are true). Also, unlike David 8, Lotor’s story is not one of triumph against those who wronged him and others, but like David 8, Lotor was on the path to attaining something greater than his nature would have otherwise allowed.
Above: David 8 delights in the unexpected unlocking of the Engineer’s star map, and both Lotor and Allura are shown the same way when Allura unlocks the star map to Oriande from the compass stone.
In both Prometheus and VLD, the clues to the location of the utopia comes from a combination of ancient cave drawings and navigation devices left behind. These clues form star maps and the like, but are mostly unusable until they are unlocked, by David 8 in Prometheus, and Allura in VLD. As shown above, their respective unlocking and reveals are very similar.
The big difference here is that in Prometheus, there are two star maps: (1) the initial star map—derived from cave drawing to reveal the location of planet LV-223—is discovered and deciphered by Elizabeth Shaw and Charlie Holloway; and (2) the star map in the navigation room that reveals the location of the Engineer’s home world (a utopia called ‘paradise’ in their language). Thus, in Prometheus, the Quest for Secret & Sacred Knowledge is divided into two parts, with the second part to be completed prior to Alien: Covenant in The Crossing.
Above: that’s one hell of a mouth on these monsters (Hammerpede and Deacon from Prometheus, and Ranveig’s super weapon from VLD).
Given how closely Oriande and Lotor’s role in that part of VLD’s story parallels David 8’s in Prometheus, I would not be surprised if Ranveig’s Super Weapon was informed by Xenomorphs, especially since the transmutational properties of the black goo would find a correlation in the strange effects of the quintessence found by Ranveig.
Above: Allura passes the White Lion’s trial by being non-violent and speaking to its philosopy. “I seek the secret of life. I give my own.”
For Allura’s part, unlike Shaw, she survives the Quest for Secret & Sacred Knowledge. Her willingness to self-sacrifice during the White Lion's trial, for the sake of knowledge, relates to Shaw’s unwilling sacrifice in Prometheus. Both sacrifices lead to knowledge. Allura for her own gain (in addition to Lotor’s), and Shaw for David’s gain.
The key here is that both stories demand a sacrifice of life for knowledge, and the knowledge obtained has to do with the power of creation and life with alchemical themes (transmutational).
That’s heavy stuff. It’s mythic level. These are themes found throughout humanity’s oldest stories, myths, and religions. It’s the stuff of Warring Gods, Capricious Fair Folk, Geas and Mystic Debts, and Divine Retribution, and Tragic Fates.
Which brings us back to Anon’s question about the White Lion:
“Why is the condition for obtaining the knowledge so stupid? Give up your life?”
Superficially, the White Lion is just another DotU reference. There’s nothing deep or meaningful about it on its own.
Thematically, the White Lion’s Trial is similar to the Blade of Marmora’s Trial. The BoM’s creed “Knowledge or Death” is informed by the Galra creed “Victory or Death”, both of which are contrasted by Allura’s words to the White Lion: “I give my own [life].”
It’s most likely that’s all there really is to the White Lion and Oriande, and thus there is nothing else here to dig at as far as the story is concerned. “Give up your life” for knowledge is merely a part of the aforementioned package of Timeless tropes and concepts that are frequently found in Quests for Secret & Sacred Knowledge and other Ur Stories.
But for the sake of meta, I’ll pretend that there is more to the White Lion and the Life Givers of Oriande.
To recap: within the context of Ur Stories, the White Lion and the Life Givers of Oriande are Keepers of Knowledge. The White Lion is the kind bound by some form of morality that dictates who gets access and how it tests those who seek it, while the Life Givers bestow it. Prometheus and Alien: Covenant are a recent example of this kind of story, and a similar tale plays out in VLD.
Part III: The Case for Blue & Orange Morality.
From the start, the White Lion’s requirements have their bias in Altean-ness, but not just any Altean-ness. A “worthy” Altean. Given that Alfor, Lotor, Allura, and Haggar were all worthy to enter Oriande, their past actions or goals/desires were less important, or not even a consideration. Thus, worthy Altean-ness is arbitrary from the outside, but must suit the Blue & Orange morality of the White Lion in some way. Additionally, only the worthy can pilot the lions of Voltron (depending upon where we are in the series and when the requirement lore is discussed or retconned), and yet none of them could enter Oriande. Why is that? What made Lotor—a half-Altean who Did Bad Things™—more worthy than Lance who was chosen to be the paladin of two different Lions? This arbitrary worthiness contradicts the symbolism of the Guardian being a “White Lion” that ties it to Voltron (and possibly the Lion Goddess worship of the Arusians). Such contradictions are reasonable to expect out of Blue & Orange morality.
However, if the White Lion and Oriande were meant to embody the Perfectly Good Pureness of the Alteans, then that raises a lot of questions about why Lotor and Haggar were able to enter while the paladins were not. While Haggar is shown to be using her magic, and possibly over-powering the White Lion and the Life Givers, I’ll explain why that might not be the case. Alternatively, this contradiction reveals a huge plot hole.
In the case of Blue & Orange morality, anyone being allowed to enter is questionable, as typically, Powerful Eternal Entities Protecting Sacred Knowledge who adhere to Blue & Orange morality often have their own motivations, plans, goals, etc that involve the use of the Knowledge Seeker in some way. In other words, the White Lion and the Life Givers may have their own agenda, and any who enter Oriande are at risk of being used to further it (either knowingly, unknowingly, cooperatively, or uncooperatively).
Oriande calls back to those Ur Stories, because one doesn't set up Blue & Orange morality behind a Quest for Secret & Sacred Knowledge in a setting like VLD without a plot twist revealing Something to embody that morality as an obstacle to the protagonists at the 11th Hour (if consistency in world-building and adherence to genre conventions were to apply). Thus, we are looking at Playthings of the Gods, or a Greater Scope Villain scenario that has something to do with Oriande. This also means that at least one of these four: Alfor, Lotor, Allura, and Haggar, were lured to Oriande for the purpose of Something Else.
Above: Haggar emerges from the temple, sparkling with divine purpose, and is restored as Honerva.
Haggar’s restoration into Honerva all but seals Blue & Orange morality for me. She got a huge pay-off from Oriande, and from the protagonist-centered morality PoV, she was the least worthy to enter, and so far appears to have paid no price. Additionally, in some stories with Blue & Orange morality, Haggar’s 10k years of reaping quintessence from the destruction of planets (and every living thing) would be seen as a necessary process to maintain the balance of creation. As in Prometheus, Death begets Life.
Above: Honerva equates quintessence with life twice in The Legend Begins. The Komar is used to reap quintessence from a planet in Taking Flight. And when Zarkon powers himself up during his fight with Lotor in Blood Duel, he does so with the quintessence that has been collected for the use of the Empire.
Thus, when Zarkon says “the strength of the Empire flows through my veins” he means that literally and symbolically. He is made stronger through all of the life energy reaped within his empire, every living thing which has died is within him. Through Honerva’s work, Death begets Life (a cursed life perhaps, but life all the same).
Why Perfectly Good Pureness doesn’t work:
If the White Lion and Oriande were meant to embody Perfectly Good Pureness, then that makes the entrance of Haggar and Lotor highly questionable.
Either that’s flawed writing, or there is something else is going on that’s not adding up:
Lotor is revealed to have harvested quintessence from Alteans (which may not be the full story), and Altean-ness is a pre-requisite to enter Oriande, and Allura is Altean while Lotor is half-Altean. But Allura is also implied to be a Life Giver and that Oriande is her home, meaning that the Life Givers and Altean-ness are closely-related. If what Romelle said about Lotor was true, by any stretch of Perfectly Good Pureness morality, the White Lion should not have given Lotor the all-clear signal in the form of Marks of the Chosen due to Lotor's past sin of evil acts against Alteans. So either his past with the Alteans at the Colony do not qualify as evil (which contradicts Perfectly Good Pureness), or those actions didn’t happen in the way that Romelle described them.
If Lotor wouldn’t have been worthy to enter Oriande due to his past actions, then that could mean that he was allowed to enter for the sake of having brought Allura there, his failure of the White Lion’s Trial foreseen and thus no risk of him gaining the sacred knowledge. This means that he was used by the Life Givers to serve their purpose.
Further, being half-Altean wasn’t a barrier to Lotor, which means that he must have something else in common with Allura to qualify in this scenario which brings us to...
If Life Givers and Altean-ness are closely related, and if Allura is both a Life Giver and an Altean, then either all Alteans are Life Givers, or only some are, as implied by Lotor in the temple. That it was those first Altean alchemists who to came to Oriande and they are the Life Givers. But the Life Giver that Allura speaks to says that the secret is already inside of her. Why would she even need to go there? Was that true of the first Altean alchemists as well? This smells a lot like Allura is host to a cosmic entity and those stories don’t usually end well for the host (e.g. Dark Phoenix from the X-Men). In which case, the Perfectly Good Pureness morality doesn’t work, as why are the Life Givers using Alteans as hosts? And if they use Alteans as hosts…do they discriminate against half-Alteans? And why do they hide their knowledge behind an arbitrary test?
Haggar should not have been able to get anywhere near Oriande for obvious reasons.
Above: Allura embodies the Life Givers’ philosophy when she risks herself to heal the dying Balmera in Rebirth. Coran says “To heal an entire planet, it could take more energy than you possess. You may not live through it.”
Even before entering Oriande, Allura had enough quintessence—life energy—to heal a dying Balmera. Do all Life Givers have that much quintessence within them? Does this mean that the Life Givers were on par with Allura prior to her entry to Oriande? If so, what power is Oriande giving them that they didn’t already possess? Within the context of Quests for Secret & Sacred Knowledge, it appears that the secret knowledge is about how to use that power to its fullest extent. Surely that comes with a price?
Anon also asks: “How did Haggar get that knowledge?”
Haggar gets the knowledge in the same way that Allura did, by being worthy to enter, and, either by knowing the philosophy behind the White Lion’s trial or by over-powering the White Lion and the Life Givers. The former can appear to be a stretch, but the latter doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Above: Haggar at Oriande, her own Marks of the Chosen, and the difference between her encounter with the Sage Statues and Allura and Lotor’s encounter.
In Season 6, Haggar arrives at Oriande’s location, her Marks of the Chosen appear, thus she gets the ‘all clear’ signal from the White Lion. Haggar is worthy of Oriande. She then enters the temple where we see her doing one of her casting circles as the Sage Statues (e.g. the Life Givers in statue form) are poised to attack.
In the case where the White Lion and Oriande embody Perfectly Good Pureness, it would be necessary for Haggar to over-power them in order to enter as she could not be considered worthy unless Blue & Orange morality applied. At the very least, Haggar was deemed worthy by the White Lion’s arbitrary requirements. So did Haggar over-power the Sage Statues, or did she offer them a gift as Allura did?
Above: Haggar and her druids transferring quintessence to Zarkon, and Allura and the Balmerans transfer quintessence to heal the Balmera.
We’ve seen Haggar and her druids use similar orientations and positions as Allura and the Balmerans do when channeling their quintessence into another being such as Zarkon, or in the case of Naxella, a planet. When they attack with quintessence, and when they reap quintessence via the Komar, their positions are different. This channeling position is used by Haggar in Oriande when she meets the Sage Statues (again, the Life Givers in statue form).
So either Haggar gave them a gift, or she over-powered them. But if Haggar can overpower the Life Givers…then why does she need the secrets of Oriande?
To put it another way, if Haggar can over-power beings capable of (at a bare minimum) restoring a Balmera as Allura did, but after they have ascended to be part of Oriande (so even more powerful right?) then what Secret & Sacred Knowledge could the Life Givers of Oriande possibly bestow upon her that would make any of that effort and risk worth it? Is there something else in Oriande that she may have been after instead?
What secrets are so powerful, that Haggar—who by this line of logic may as well be all-powerful herself—needs them to fulfill her goals?
These same secrets are also now known to Allura, though the argument can be made that Haggar-now-Honerva had much more time to study them properly. These secrets have unlocked Allura’s potential, giving her—as Lotor says during their battle in S6—“all the power in the universe”. Hypothetically, Honerva has unlocked this power within herself as well.
And this is why we've got a case of Blue and Orange morality. For so long as one fulfills some arbitrary requirements, then one is allowed in. The next parts, getting past the Life Givers in the form of the Sage Statues, and passing the White Lion’s Trial relate back to the Blade of Marmora. For the BoM, one has to be thinking like them to pass (Knowledge or Death). For the White Lion and the Life Givers, one has to understand the philosophy underlying their Blue & Orange morality, which in this case, is giving up life for knowledge. Piece of cake for Allura, quite likely easy for Haggar too, not so for Lotor. Understanding their philosophy is alignment agnostic, both the good and the evil can know it and put it to use.
In Lotor’s case, he failed the White Lion’s alignment-agnostic philosophy exam. Even though he learned their ways enough to replicate some of Alfor and Honerva's accomplishments, and got as far as he did, (and I’d argue to understand the bigger picture of what is necessary to bring peace to the universe). He failed because the Galra philosophy of “Victory or Death” came out in him as the White Lion’s threat triggered that philosophy in addition to his desperation to achieve his goal (which in S6E1 we see hints of his anxiousness towards not being delayed further from). He did not fail due to moral alignment.
From Lotor's PoV—as stated by Anon—“It seems natural to fight, when lives of people depend on your success.” This natural way can easily fall under the Galra’s “Victory or Death”, and leads Lotor to fail, therefore it must be at odds with the morality and/or philosophy of the White Lion and the Life Givers. If not, then it at the very least, it must be at odds with how the Life Givers intend for Altean Alchemy to be used, just as Prometheus’ use of the Gift of Fire went against how Zeus and the gods intended for it to be used.
Thus, Lotor is a Promethean character, setting him against Life Givers' and the White Lion’s morality as he wants to take their Gift (e.g. Altean Alchemy via Allura) for another use, as Anon said: “He needed that knowledge so his own “Voltrons" would work with Alteans from Colony.”
Above: Lotor lights the flame at Kral Zera and double-dipping into flame symbolism.
That other use, what amounts to Altean Alchemy For All, is one that the White Lion’s trial exists to prevent by way of only allowing worthy Alteans to enter. Those worthy Alteans are ‘sacred’, and it is not much of a stretch to assume that they may have once derived their social status from being the only Alteans who can wield this secret power.
While I’m not completely sold on “Voltrons with Alteans” being Lotor's reasoning (definitely for Honerva though), that still aligns with his Dark Savior obsession underlying his desire for power to defend the Alteans himself, or, to enable the Alteans to defend themselves (remember his words to the Puigian leader about how Voltron left the Puigians defenseless). However, Lotor's stated goal—giving unlimited quintessence to the universe for the sake of peace—is analogous to Prometheus taking Fire from Olympus so that the mortals could use its heat and improve their lot. Further, like Prometheus, Lotor is divinely punished for his actions, for via Allura, Lotor stole the means to unlimited quintessence for all (e.g. the Fire) from Oriande and the Life Givers (e.g. Olympus and the Gods).
Divine Punishment:
Above: Allura attacks first while Lotor pleads with her. Lotor responds by ordering his generals to hold their fire.
Lotor's divine punishment comes from Allura. Allura takes up a “fight first” instinct multiple times throughout the story, the same instinct that caused Lotor to fail the White Lion’s trial. Allura fights first even though she is from a race that we’re told are excellent diplomats, whose culture and mythological beings (e.g. White Lion and the Life Givers) appear to embody a “giving one’s life rather than fighting” philosophy. This philosophy is what motivated Allura to restore the Balmera at risk of her own life, but her fight first moments throughout the story contradict that philosophy, as well as her readiness to fight rather than embrace a diplomacy-first approach in the case of Ulaz and Kolivan. Allura embraces diplomacy-first when it is easy and convenient.
Two of these fight first times—yeeting Lotor when he was no threat, and attacking Lotor when he was pleading with her—occur after she gained the knowledge of Altean Alchemy from Oriande. I’m not saying that Allura was’t emotionally justified, but part of being the Special Sacred One, is that one is usually required to control those impulses in exchange for the sacred power and knowledge.
In stories where there is a “Here’s this Mythic Sacred Thing you got because of a Quest to a Special Place” event, there are usually conditions upon the continued use of the Thing. Acting against the precepts or philosophy or morality embodied by the Bestowers of the Thing is a Big Deal. It is such a Big Deal, that this conflict appears in stories from nearly every mythology or religion, even if only in the form of the smallest side-story of a minor hero or prophet (e.g. Enkidu from Gilgamesh, or “Don’t look back” for Orpheus and Eurydice).
Above: Allura’s power over life on display.
Allura’s got this awesome power now, and it didn’t cost her anything.
That breaks the Quest for Secret & Sacred Knowledge story code (risking her life to not defend against the White Lion barely counts). Allura can bring Lance back to life, shift Shiro’s soul into the body of another person a clone, and myriad other all-powerful plot-friendly things. Yet there is no geas placed upon her? No requirement that she continue to embody the philosophy that allowed her to pass the White Lion’s trial in the first place?
It appears as though Allura's awesome power is inconsistent for when it’s available (cough Plot cough), as in Season 7, she’s a quintessence power house during the fight with Macidus, but she couldn’t save Sanda as she did with Lance?
In the context of Ur Stories, when a Seeker of Knowledge has gained a gift of knowledge and not immediately paid a price—such as when Odin gives an eye for a drink from Urd’s Well of Knowledge—then that Seeker usually has to continue to embody what made them worthy to get the gift in the first place. Or, they must complete some kind of Task or observe a taboo, otherwise they risk the wrath of those who bestowed the gift or lose access to the gift. As Allura does not yet appear to have lost her power, then she may have a Task to complete instead. Violating the seemingly pacifist philosophy of the Life Givers to deliver divine punishment to Lotor may have been permissible given the circumstances.
Finally—Part IV: Payment is Coming Due
While I still doubt that there is anything more to the White Lion than a nod to DotU combined with a basic Quest for Secret & Sacred Knowledge (thus explaining the White Lion’s strange condition for such knowledge), it’s still possible that this is leading to something mythic inline with Ur Stories, especially given VLD’s hellscape setting, dark tone, and love of tragedy. Season 8 could bring us a Playthings of the Gods scenario pitting Allura versus Honerva for reasons beyond the obvious (e.g. a plot twist), or, a tragic fate awaits Allura due to something as classic as Alfor flaking on a Task or Debt asked of him for the knowledge he gained at Oriande (another plot twist).
In many stories where a similar arc or backstory occurred, Alfor should have come back with a Task or a Debt to be called upon at some later date (often tragic and inconvenient). That Task could have been the creation of Voltron, that Debt could have been Allura’s life.
Remember the “I give my life” philosophy?
Time to pay up.
Alfor may have hidden Voltron and Allura from Zarkon, if doing so meant that they would avoid a Tragic Fate for which they were intended by the Life Givers, in exchange for bestowing the secrets of Altean Alchemy upon him. His actions then—in classic Greek tragedy fashion—made the situation immeasurably worse, and the universe paid the price.
Tragic endings are what happens when you back out on a Mystic Deal, or when you try to avoid Fate.
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whats something youve always wanted to do, but never had time or the resources to?
Travel for sure. The farthest we ever went was Mt. Oriander to my grandpa’s house...
But now I have a second chance! So I’ll get to now.
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