#Miguel Gwen and Peter fill specific roles there

[starlooove]

This might be too niche for the non Afro Latinos but miles reaction to Miguel rejecting him wasn’t just about the spider thing and I felt it when Miles called him Tío and got that reaction.

[oliveroctavius]

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I'm bummed out that the really interesting meta commentary in ATSV on comics lore, what makes Spider-Man a Spider-Man on a meta creation level, etc. had to revolve around the Death of Captain Stacy as THE canon event bc it really ramped up the copaganda to a level where it's intrinsic to the narrative, and for what? Off the top of my head, 'death of a police captain close to Spider-Man who dies heroically saving a child' isn't that common across spider characters or even Peter specifically (it doesn't even really fit TASM), and I know the narrative in BTSV is going to prove that Miguel is wrong that it must happen bc it's obviously not a really a necessary event even if you look beyond Miles, but as it is, it's treated as fact bc not a single character beyond Miles questions it even though most of the spiders wouldn't have that event in their narratives.

I suspect they chose it partly bc the Death of Gwen Stacy would be the expected canon event and they absolutely played with audience expectations there leading up to it, and I get not going with it bc it's tired, misogynistic, and traps Gwen in a 'But is she going to die?' role yet again, but the copaganda is really dragging it down the more I think about it, especially if you, say, project where Hobie's actions are headed if he's going to help Miles save his cop dad, which undermines all the earlier anti-authority stuff against Miguel, etc.

I get why it's specifically useful to raise the stakes for Gwen and Miles, I guess... very well-known cop dads in the comics, so it locks in well with the family/mentor conflicts. It's like, Miguel's position is such an obvious strawman that no matter which plot beat you pick, it will be stupid from a dozen spiderpeople's perspectives. And yet people actually talk like that on twitter all the time.

MY pitch for an alternate canon event would have been—wait no don't look at my icon that will give it away—"your best friend becomes jealous and in trying to become a supervillain meets a horrible end". That covers not just the comics but Raimi, TASM2, AND Gwen's backstory and would be the perfect excuse to expand on Ganke's relationship with Miles. Like obviously Miguel is wrong and Ganke doesn't fill that story role. But might he? What if Ganke had an internship at Alchemax? What if the Spot saw Spider-Man save Ganke and decided he was going to origin story the hell out of this kid that his arch-nemesis obviously cared about? Was becoming Ganke's friend and telling him his secret identity a mistake, vindicating Gwen's closed-off worldview? Huh??? What then???

[eddiebrockx]

"Disrupting Canon"

⚠️SPOILERS for Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse and Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse (primarily the latter). Like serious spoilers. Please don't engage if you don't want any!⚠️

Incoming mini-essay! (TL;DR - Miguel O'Hara as a character has much to say about grief and guilt, and how it can harm people.)

After watching Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse, I am filled with thoughts!!! So many that they can't all be contained here, and I'll probably have to write an actually essay later--however, I wanted to share some of my feelings and ideas about Miguel and his role in the story, specifically.

Miguel is obviously an antagonist to Miles throughout the story. And, I would actually argue that he is an antagonist to everyone, including himself. He's cynical, he's controlling, he projects his fears onto everyone, and he is terrified of change. The scene where he tells Miles that he is the "original anomaly" is a obvious display of all of that.

Despite this, Miguel still isn't a villain; he isn't evil, and he isn't doing any of this because of pure malice. Instead, he's doing it out of fear. Because Miguel is also an anomaly (at least, I think so). Miguel has more in common with Miles than he does the other Spiders, which is why I think he blames Miles for so much as the "original anomaly."

We know, as the audience, that Miles shouldn't be blamed for anything that has happened. It is not his fault that the Spot brought over a radioactive spider from Earth-42; it's not his fault that he got bit; it's not his fault that the original Spider-Man dies; it's not his fault that the Spot became the Spot. Any logical person can see that Miles didn't have any control over these situations; so why can't Miguel?

He can't because Miguel believes that Miles will cause and experience exactly what he did. We know that a major part of why Miguel is so uptight is because when he disrupted canon, his entire world disintegrated before his eyes. And, its a logical fear; as he said himself, is it worth saving one person over ending the world? But this is where things get complicated: does "disrupting canon" actually cause the world to end?

Peter B. Parker, for example, has a daughter. Jessica Drew is pregnant. None of the other Spiders seem to have children, so wouldn't these be an example of canon being disrupted? Pavitr's world still seems to be around (I'm assuming), after we saw canon disrupted. Gwen's father LITERALLY quit his job, meaning he didn't die, and therefore also disrupted canon. But...nothing happened to Gwen's Earth, even though she was gone for several months.

And, the cherry on top, if Miles is an anomaly, how come nothing has happened to Earth-1610 and Earth-42? Why did nothing happen when the original Spider-Man died?

All of these things, I would like to add, are also very different to what Miguel did. Miguel abandoned his world for a new one, taking the place of a version of him that died. He was in the wrong world. And this reminded me of a certain antagonist in Into the Spider-Verse: King Pin.

Throughout the entire movie, King Pin desperately tried to bring another version of his family into his world. In the end he failed, whereas Miguel succeeded. Of course there are major differences, still. King Pin was entirely selfish and didn't care what consequences came with getting his family back, whereas Miguel thought he wasn't hurting anyone. But Miguel still managed to hurt people, and that's what seems to linger for him. The guilt and grief that he caused the destruction of an entire Earth.

And he can't see past it. Despite the many examples we see throughout the movie that go against what he believes, he can't see beyond his own experience. And if he were to admit that Miles could be correct, his understanding of what happened to himself has to be completely reevaluated. All of that grief that he has suppressed, all of the work he's done to "fix" things; all of that changes.

This is what makes Miguel so compelling to me. I don't think what he said to Miles was warranted, but I can understand where he comes from. The other Spiders can too, because a lot of them have already experienced their canon events. It's what makes this conflict so complicated, so interesting.

Of course, we can't be 100% sure about everything until we see what happens in the third film, but it's all interesting nonetheless.

Ultimately, all I want to say is that I love this series, and I can't wait to see where it takes us next!

[unnounblr]

#I can’t articulate it well

#but as an Afro Latino

#miguel and Jessica upholding the system that miles isn’t being allowed into speaks to me

#the ease with which peter and Gwen agreed to their plan spoke to me

#Margo and Hobie being the main ones helping him SPOKE TO ME

#ALSO IM NOT SSYING MIGUEL IS RACIST

#im saying that the parallels are paralleling

#mfs who can see Spiderverse as a coming out arc but wanna act confused Abt this pls s

#and i wanna make my thoughts clear like I don’t think Miguel Gwen or Peter are racist or meant to be

#like my point is that they fit that narrative role in the story when u relate it to real life

#for example rio obviously thinks whatveer miles is going through is race related

#that’s why she makes that speech

#so following that narrative

#Miguel Gwen and Peter fill specific roles there

#so do Morgan and hobie

#pls pls pls don’t be scared of the word racist and use critical thought here

#im not saying it’s them actually being racist like duh

#but im saying that It is very relatable and I personally believe that it’s intentional

This might be too niche for the non Afro Latinos but miles reaction to Miguel rejecting him wasn’t just about the spider thing and I felt it when Miles called him Tío and got that reaction.

[unnounblr]

#I can’t articulate it well

#but as an Afro Latino

#miguel and Jessica upholding the system that miles isn’t being allowed into speaks to me

#the ease with which peter and Gwen agreed to their plan spoke to me

#Margo and Hobie being the main ones helping him SPOKE TO ME

#ALSO IM NOT SSYING MIGUEL IS RACIST

#im saying that the parallels are paralleling

#mfs who can see Spiderverse as a coming out arc but wanna act confused Abt this pls s

#and i wanna make my thoughts clear like I don’t think Miguel Gwen or Peter are racist or meant to be

#like my point is that they fit that narrative role in the story when u relate it to real life

#for example rio obviously thinks whatveer miles is going through is race related

#that’s why she makes that speech

#so following that narrative

#Miguel Gwen and Peter fill specific roles there

#so do Morgan and hobie

#pls pls pls don’t be scared of the word racist and use critical thought here

#im not saying it’s them actually being racist like duh

#but im saying that It is very relatable and I personally believe that it’s intentional

This might be too niche for the non Afro Latinos but miles reaction to Miguel rejecting him wasn’t just about the spider thing and I felt it when Miles called him Tío and got that reaction.