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vashtijoy · 1 year ago

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"why not join me instead?" akechi's "invitation" in conf 7

People come and go on whether this question of Akechi's is genuine or not. Opinions run the gamut from "I hate him for trying to take you away from your friends" to "Akechi wants Joker to be his accomplice".

Myself, I don't think Akechi means this as a serious question, for a number of reasons. I think this question is rhetorical.

Quick summary:

Conf 7 illustrates the similarity between Joker and Akechi, and that they're both committed to the showdown between them;

Rather than being an invitation, Akechi's question again illustrates that parallel—that neither of them will give up the things that matter to them to join the other, as Joker has asked him to do;

"I'll think about it" does not count towards the third awakening—and I can prove it. Rather, Akechi can't conceive that Joker would ever abandon his friends, and uses it as an outrageous example of something Joker would never do;

Joker's loyalty not only to his principles but to his friends is something Akechi values so much that he won't let Joker sacrifice it;

Akechi is not so much offering Joker a way out in conf 7 (there is no way out) as he's confirming for his own sake that Joker is still in the game. Is this still a battle between rivals, or is it an execution?

Let's take a look.

what is akechi really asking?

[long post is long]

Look at this line. Look at the question he's posing:

Akechi いっそ君がこっちに来るってのは?⋯今の仲間を捨ててさ。 isso kimi ga kocchi ni kuru tte no wa?... ima no nakama o sutete sa Why not join me instead...? All you'd have to do is abandon the teammates you have now.

It's very easy to focus on the first half of this question and miss the second. But that second half is the important part, the sting in the tail. The Japanese is a great example of wa building suspense: "Instead, what if you come over to my side, (AND THEN WHAT, AKECHI???????)"

The sentence is left hanging, with the weight of it unspoken (since wa emphasises what comes after it); Akechi is obviously not done speaking. And indeed, when he continues, it's a doozy:

"though, of course, you'd have to dump the friends you have now." (Yes, I think "friends" is often a much better translation of nakama than "teammates", fight me; it's even often translated as "friend" in P5 itself, or indeed, awkwardly, as "teammates and friends".)

Akechi is using the same verb, suteru, that you use for tossing something in the trash; the parallel meaning, "ending a relationship", exists in Japanese too.

Ryuji, Morgana, Ann, Yusuke, Makoto, Futaba, Haru, everything you've all gone through together and everything you've been—Akechi is suggesting you toss them aside like garbage. For him.

Now, I think part of Akechi would very much like Joker to do that. But he also knows better than to expect it. Because he knows Joker so much better than that.

Akechi has seen firsthand how loyal Joker is to his friends—remember on 1/2 how he says he investigated them all? He's seen some of the things Joker will do for them. He expects that blind faith to lead Joker to his death, much as Yaldabaoth does. But he also respects it.

This boy who's never had a friend, who's convinced himself the whole idea is stupid, is still drawn to the loyalty he sees in Joker. Even as he's preparing his own ultimate betrayal, Akechi recognises Joker's commitment to others. He understands treachery is bad, even though he himself is a traitor—just as he understands that murder is bad, and that doesn't stop him, either.

This question of whether or not Joker will betray his friends (and Akechi specifically) comes back on 2/2, of course—and in force.

so why does he ask

Akechi is not proposing that the two of them run off together. He's not asking to see what Joker will say. He doesn't impulsively make the invitation, and then run away when Joker says yes. He is, in fact, not even asking. He poses the idea of Joker abandoning all his friends as a counterexample. It's supposed to be something Joker would never consider, something he will find morally repugnant.

Which is why, if Joker says yes, Akechi is shocked, and essentially tells Joker not to make such stupid spur-of-the-moment decisions. Akechi is making a rhetorical point about what Joker is asking of him.

Remember Joker's statement that leads into Akechi's question:

Yeah. Joker either suggests that Akechi should give up everything he's doing and everything he believes in (even as Akechi confabulates about what those things really are), or he suggests, with the top option, that he's already done it.

And in return, Akechi says that Joker should join him... and throw away his friends and everything he's working for and everything he believes in, of course.

It's the second response to his question, where Joker turns him down flat, that makes it most obvious that this was what Akechi meant:

Joker それは無理だ sore wa muri da I'm not doing that. No way in hell. Akechi だろうね。 darou ne I thought as much. Akechi 分かるだろ、誰だって今の立場を簡単に捨てられやしないんだよ wakaru daro, dare datte ima no tachiba o kantan ni suterare yashinai n da yo I'm sure you understand. We all have our parts to play, and we can't simply leave those behind.

See what he's saying? ima no tachiba o kantan ni suterare yashinai—"we absolutely must not lightly set aside the positions we hold now".

Incidentally, yes, that's that same verb suteru that he used before, for casting aside or throwing away. Akechi is drawing a parallel between Joker's friends and his own goals—between the things each of them holds most dear, which neither of them will sacrifice, even to save the other. (Assuming you think Akechi would even be down to save Joker—but I do think conf 7 suggests that at this point, he might not be opposed to the possibility. It's just that it doesn't exist.)

the phone call

This parallel returns in the phone call afterwards, if you again tell him that you're rivals:

It's a little hard to tell from the localisation what Akechi is getting at, so let's take a close look:

Akechi 僕らにはお互い譲れないものがあって、そのためにも負けられない。 bokura ni wa otagai yuzurenai mono ga atte, sono tame ni mo makerarenai [lit. for both of us, these are things we cannot compromise on, and because of those things we cannot suffer losing.] Neither of us can afford to lose, because we fight in service of our principles. It's the same for both of us. Neither of us can afford to lose, because of these principles we won't concede. Akechi ⋯だからこそ、もしも君が自分を曲げたりしたら絶対に赦さないよ。 ... dakara koso, moshi mo kimi ga jibun o megetari shitara zettai ni yurusanai yo [lit. that's exactly why, if you were to warp yourself [that way], I would absolutely never let such a sin (t/n: note the kanji) pass.] And that is precisely why... I cannot allow you to change. ... And that's precisely why, if you betrayed yourself that way... I couldn't allow it. Akechi だって、僕が負け��くないのは『君』なんだから。 datte, boku ga maketakunai no wa "kimi" nan da kara [lit. it's you as you are now who I do not want to lose to.] As you are now, as you think now... I cannot allow you to win over me. The person you are now, with those principles, and that determination—that's the one I won't ever allow to beat me.

Here's my attempt at a translation again, so you can see it all together:

Akechi: It's the same for both of us. Neither of us can afford to lose, because of these things we won't concede. Akechi: ...And that's precisely why, if you betrayed yourself that way... I couldn't allow it. Akechi: The person you are now, with those principles, and that determination—that's the one I won't ever allow to beat me.

It turns out that this phone conversation, that was originally quite mystical-sounding and hard to follow (what were you trying to say, Akechi?) is quite straightforward. It ties into to his original question. "Will I join you, Joker? Well, what if you join me instead? Just throw away all your little friends for my sake? Of course you won't—because we're the same. Both of us have things we can't give up, no matter what—and if you tried to do that, I wouldn't let you, because I value you as you are...."

This parallel between the two of them is what conf 7 is about, from the text message that opens it to the phone call that concludes it:

It's the same thing again: neither of you can afford to lose, because you're fighting for your principles. The billiard table is the stage for this wider discussion.

The billiard scene, of course, is interesting for another reason—Akechi is giving Joker a chance to back out; he's testing his commitment, and perhaps hinting that he never intended to be quite where he is, either. He states at the outset that he's being indirect, that what he's saying is a metaphor—and then closes that metaphor with a very direct question: "Do you still intend to play this game?"

Akechi それでも君は、このゲームを降りる気はないの? sore demo kimi wa, kono geemu o oriru ki wa nai no? Even then... do you still intend to play this game? But despite all of that, you still won't fold, will you?

The Japanese is even more specific: Akechi asks Joker if he intends to fold—not whether he still wants to play, but whether he means to give up entirely! "This can't be what you expected, so how about it? Will you just give up? Does this mean as much to you as it does to me? Is this a game we both choose to play, or are you just a victim?"

How much of this is Akechi blowing smoke up his own ass?—casting the fact that he's about to murder the boy in front of him in a glowing, romantic light? Pretty much all of it, I'd say. He's dreamed of having a rival, someone to compete with who challenges him, but what he's got is quite a bit more than that.

Again, the rival imagery is what allows Akechi not only to accept this close relationship, but to frame it as a life-or-death contest that only one of them can win. It confirms to him that what Lavenza describes as "a truly unfair game" is actually fair. It's about making Joker's murder seem as much Joker's fault as his own.

but what happens if you say yes?

Despite all of this, you can choose to have Joker consider Akechi's "offer"—to discard Ryuji, Morgana, Ann, Yusuke, Makoto, Futaba and Haru like trash, and assist Akechi instead. It's tempting, I know.

I don't personally get the impression that Akechi likes this response, for a number of reasons. None of the three responses to his offer score confidant points, but there's something else in play: only one of these responses unlocks his third awakening.

See the F code highlighted in yellow? Only one of these three responses has it. "You're my rival" counts towards the third awakening. Rejecting him, with "I'm not doing that", does not—but more to the point, offering to be with him, with "I'll think about it", also does not!

The issue is confused because a number of us have taken option 1 (or indeed option 2, like me) and still got the third awakening on 2/2. It seems like you need some of the flagged responses, not all of them. But it remains the case that "I'll think about it" does not make Akechi more likely to have his third awakening.

What happens if you take this option?

Joker 考えておく kangaete oku I'll think about it. Akechi へえ、考えてはくれるんだ? hee, kangaete wa kureru n da? Oh? So you'll think about it, at least? What? You mean you'll consider it? Akechi ⋯でも、そういうその場限りの情はやめた方がいい。 ...demo, sou iu sono ba kagiri no jou wa yameta hou ga ii ...But I'd advise you don't say these things without their due consideration. ... Still, it would be better if you didn't trust such fleeting sentiments. Akechi 出来もしない約束はするものじゃないよ。 deki mo shinai yakusoku wa suru mono ja nai yo You shouldn't make promises that you can't keep, anyway. Don't be the sort who promises the earth and walks away.

A few grammar points:

んだ n da on a question demands an explanation; Akechi's question could almost be rendered "Why on earth would you need/want to think about it?"

そういうその場限りの情 sou iu sono ba kagiri no jou—"sentiments that only matter here and now". Essentially, "sentiments that won't last"—or that are makeshift or ad hoc; Joker is making a stupid spur-of-the-moment decision.

yes, 出来もしない約束 deki mo shinai yakusoku translates idiomatically as "promising the earth". The point is not that Joker should not promise; the point is that he shouldn't be the sort of person who promises so much—and then doesn't follow through.

Again, this confidant is all about Akechi's expectations for Joker. It's about the weird belief he has in him, like the belief he has in Shido—that Joker has principles and friends and will stand by them, that those things are important and matter, even if they're diametrically opposed to Akechi's principles and the things he wants.

The fact that they foil each other in this way is a large part of what makes Joker such a worthy opponent for Akechi. So if Joker turns around and says, sure, Akechi, I'll dump all my friends so we can make out?

Akechi does not like that. He thinks better of him!—he loses respect if Joker offers this. Even if that little line about "promising the earth" suggests that, actually, yeah, he would quite like for the two of them to run away together—if only they lived in a world where it was possible.

what about "you're my rival"?

I've discussed this line before, but let's go into it for completeness.

Joker 明智は好敵手だ akechi wa koutekishu da You're my rival. Nah, you're my worthy opponent.

Do you see that Joker names Akechi there? He doesn't just say, "we're worthy opponents", or even "you're my worthy opponent", koutekishu da yo.

No, he picks Akechi out by name, and then tells him exactly what they are to each other. Because wa builds suspense. Akechi wa... (what?! what is he?!) koutekishu da. "I can't run away with you, because I need you to be this to me instead".

And this is the line with the F-code. This is the line that, if you choose it, will build towards Akechi's third awakening—which is centred on his trust in Joker, on the fact that Joker is worthy of that trust.

And how does Akechi respond?

He's astonished. He did not expect this at all, look:

On the left, the top screenshot where he's waiting for your answer; in the centre, the moment of shock, where he's pulled away and dropped his hand and his eyes are wide; on the right, a comparative overlay just to demonstrate that he pulled back.

smiles that aren't smiles

I have a half-assed theory that you can tell when Akechi is really smiling—because the model will smile with him. If you watch, for instance, Ryuji, the model's expressions match the sprite's almost exactly. But if you watch Akechi? Nah, not so much.

Here's an example. Akechi appears to smile quite often through conf 7—but if you glance away from the sprite and textbox to the model, the model is pokerfaced. Five smile sprites on the optimal route through conf 7, and not one of them—not even "you truly are fascinating"—matches the model:

But when you pick "You're my rival"? Suddenly the model's face springs to life:

It's obvious from everything else that this moment is of deep significance to Akechi. But this little detail with the smiles suggests we can confirm it.

and what does he say?

It doesn't take long for him to pull himself together:

Akechi 同意だね、僕らにはなれ合いより対等な関係こそふさわしい。 doui da ne, bokura ni wa nareai yori taitouna kankei koso fusawashii I agree. I think a relationship of equals suits us better than being co-conspirators, anyway...

This is another one that I find unclear in the localisation, so let's have at it.

nareai suggests an illicit or unduly-close union. It suggests "being in bed together" in the business sense—cosying up, colluding, conspiring. It suggests they're working together when they shouldn't be. Jisho uses the screamingly-outdated term "common-law marriage" (what we call "living together") as an example. Essentially, it suggests they're too close—or even co-dependent, in a way that corrupts them both.

In short? Akechi's "co-conspirators", nareai, means "accomplices"—what we might call "murder boyfriends".

taitouna kankei—literally, "an equal relationship"—is a set phrase, and we know what it means. It suggests a relationship where nobody is being cheated; where everyone gets out what they put in. Where the two of them compete on equal terms.

That's a very Akechi way to look at relationships. But it's also a relationship where nobody is in charge; nobody is dominant, and everyone has self-respect. Nobody is chasing after anyone or sacrificing unduly, as either would be if they joined the other. Everyone can be who they are and say what they want. Everyone can say no.

It's the sort of relationship Akechi very notably does not have with Shido. Is it the sort of relationship he has with Joker, when the two of them are hiding so much from each other and lying so much, and there's so much, like, murder going on? Nah. But as an aspiration, as a suggestion of the sort of relationship Akechi would like them to have, alongside everything else he's told us about how he sees the two of them—as similar, as equals and opposites, as bound by their principles, as destined to fight—it's almost touching.

and what does joker think?

Akechi ⋯たとえこの先、何があろうともだ。 ...tatoe kono saki, nani ga arou tomo da ...No matter what else may change. ...No matter what might come next. Akechi それだけの事を言ったんだから、逃げないでよ? sore dake no koto o itta n da kara, nigenaide yo? In any case, what you just said carries great weight. Remember what you decided, and don't run from it. All right? [lit. don't run away just because of what [I/you] said, all right?]

I'm not sure about this. It feels like it should be referring back to Akechi's last line—"don't get cold feet and run away just because I alluded ominously to whatever's coming next, okay?". I guess it could be referring to Joker's commitment, with "You're my rival"? IDK, I'm out on this one, so I'm inclined to give the localisation the benefit of the doubt.

But it doesn't matter. Because the significance of what Joker does next doesn't change:

He nods. Akechi spends the whole confidant hinting that something ominous is coming, and that the two of them are heading to an inevitable confrontation, and Joker nods.

I don't think this is really consistent with interpretations where Joker is a meek little sheep in the interrogation room. Joker might not have chosen this, he might not have wanted it, he might have by far preferred to avoid it. He'd happily back out if Akechi would just drop the whole thing and agree to act sane. But he's committed to it. He agrees to fight.

Remember, conf 7 takes place after Joker hears the murder phone call. He knows what Akechi is. He knows what he's planning. He knows the stakes—and he agrees to play, to face Akechi down.

To quote @nardaviel, that's no sheep. That's a full-on "Phantom Thieves win again, motherfucker" smirk. Joker played Akechi's game, with everything he had—and he played to win.

#persona 5 #p5 meta #japanese language #shuake #goro akechi #ren amamiya #almost the worst part of this is that akechi respecting joker for his loyalty tells you how little he respects himself #also! 'i'll think about it' CANNOT POSSIBLY unlock the third awakening #because the third awakening is *all about trust* and saying yes to akechi proves that you're a traitor #and that 'i won't forgive you if you betray your principles' on the phone? also 2/2. this is exactly what he does if you take the deal #also!! joker makes a third option to akechi's question with 'you're my rival' and this is what astonishes him besides the thing itself #also! (per leonawriter) the maruki deal ending is essentially the nareai relationship #where akira has all the power and akechi..? well #nobody is themself or choosing for themself #also as regards whether akechi is lying he proves himself through action #'i won't let you betray yourself' - he did that already if you tried to take the deal #ALSO? that 'megeru' for 'i won't let you depart from your principles comes back on 2/2 #as joker's 'i won't fold'#and ofc it's ALSO akechi's 'you'd fold over...' that precedes that. it was set up in conf 7 if you took the rival route #so tldr it's plausible that 2/2 is as much akechi fighting for his vision of joker as for his right to die. help???#ALSO. did you wonder why it's *awakening* akechi who comes to leblanc? the one closer to you who believes in you more?#this is exactly why. awakening akechi has faith left in you to lose. non-awakening akechi already lost that faith. BYE

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yokyoaaa · 10 months ago

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I think i'd be a pretty funny hc if sailor waddle dee left serving under dedede not because she hates him but because she just love the idea of being rebellious. She joined the halberd crew because their motivation lines up with hers. She's the only one who's secretly pissy over meta and dedede working together because that means she's just a normal government worker now and not a cool rebel overthrowing the government

#Is she/her saidee hc acceptable?? cuz #i also hc that the meta-knights are like the police department. she and vul are in charge of the halberd and emergency calls and such #she's just a normal 911 operator now #sailor waddle dee #kirby

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l-in-the-light · 4 months ago

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The most embarrassing series of posts about Lawlu you will ever read: edition Dressrosa (part 5)

Are we ready for the feels? Because my "Love is a Hurricane tale" of Lawlu analysis continues on into Dressrosa, the land of love and passion! In this episode we will focus on Luffy and Law seperately. This post will be much more serious as well. Lots and lots of scrutinizing analysis ahead!

Let's point out two things here: apparently it was Sanji who was the rebel and left as the first one, attracted to amazing smells. Luffy on the other hand, actually tried to get closer to Law and listen properly.

And, one group of people is now enteirely missing. For once, it wasn't Luffy's fault, he wasn't even the first one to venture out and that tells us a lot already. Law, despite rather displeased with that outcome, decides not to do anything about it. Perhaps one of the remaining Strawhats told him not to worry about it... but would they say it? We're left with Nami, Usopp, Brook, Chopper, Robin and Momo. They're kinda a bunch of people easily scared and paranoid. Robin is the only exception, but she would rather just chuckle at all the chaos that's happening rather than reassure anyone.

I think the more likely option is Law trying to play it cool so that the rest won't worry too much. Whether he's personally worried or not wouldn't have mattered, he already feels like taking care of these people is his responsibility and he needs to be strong for them. He probably did worry himself a bit here. Let's switch to Luffy from now on:

As fast as Luffy realized (thanks to Sanji) that things aren't going as predicted, he tries to find a fast fix for it himself. I mean, he had a pretty good idea about it, sadly he was stopped with his attempt. This will start a streak of Luffy's attempts to actually stick to the plan, as disbelieving as that sounds right now. After all, he didn't listen to the end about the plan, obviously Luffy doesn't care??

If he doesn't care, why is his initial reaction towards Zoro slightly angry here? Oh, maybe because Law assigned them into one group and Luffy realizes *they have to stick together*. That's exactly why he left after Sanji (who shouldn't actually be in their group, but nevermind), it wasn't just for adventure (ofc that was important as well), it was to stay with their group. Ofc right after Luffy quickly snaps into his usual happy go lucky attitude, thinking it would be fun to chase Zoro, but let's keep in mind that's his second reaction, not the first one, and that's already giving us a hint what will be Luffy's priority from now on.

Luffy is unusually interested in finding the smiles factory. Concerned even. Perhaps he was keeping in mind Law's warning that finding the factory won't be easy and is reminded now of that.

Putting aside Luffy's clear PTSD reaction here (proving us he's still not over Ace's death, because why would he be), despite the fact he declares he wants flame-flame fruit, he doesn't immediately jump to the decision of doing everything he can to get it. It's actually only after Franky's encouragement that he makes his final decision! Very unusual for Luffy to hold back on something that important for him and needing encouragement. It's Luffy who encourages people usually, he just goes and reaches his hands to grab what he wants without fretting over it. I wonder why is he hesitating so much?

Ofc Luffy's enthusiasm to stay undercover is lovely, but he still almost fails with it right afterwards, because, well, he's Luffy. And why does he need to stay undercover? Oh right, so someone's plan in Dressrosa wouldn't be affected!

Meanwhile we have Law who tries to play it calm and cool for the group, but he's actually growing anxious. There are already two signs that the plan is going to have more problems than expected, since people in Dressrosa act normal despite their king abdicating, and then CP0 arrives. He won't voice his doubts explicitly though, he knows he needs to keep morale of the group up. But when they make it to the bridge, he already decided not to use his devil fruit to save up strength, he knows there will be problems up ahead thanks to all those signs.

It's kinda heartwarming but also a bit sad to see Luffy holding back so much. At all times he tries his best not to blow his cover. But Luffy is really terrible at lying, so he's fretting around a lot, clearly stressed from all the unfavourable developments. He even tries to stop himself from cheering on for Bellamy, something he would usually do without a second thought. Officially he claims he's doing it for Franky, but we all know why Franky told Luffy to be undercover: it was all for Law's plan to succeed, and attracting attention would be bad for it. It's not very direct, but all of Luffy's efforts are actually for Law and his plan.

Law remembered his own nature: giving out orders expecting others to live up to them. He's indeed just like Luffy here haha. Though we can excuse him a little, the situation was bad after all. Luffy meanwhile does it all the time.

Top images: Again, poor distressed Luffy is afraid his identity will be revealed and he will be the one responsible for blowing up Law's plan. He really doesn't want to disappoint him. Compare this to when he inflitrates the castle with Viola later on (bottom images), he doesn't even hesitate to take off his disguise even though his cover wasn't even blown yet. Only after Luffy removes his koi fish costume, the guy realized it was Strawhat Luffy. But Luffy doesn't care anymore for being undercover.

The contrast is shocking with the previous image. It just proves how much he was struggling and bracing himself to stay in that disguise in the collosseum, it must have been hard for him. But Luffy would try his best and beyond for Law. He just would do the same for Ace, that's why he couldn't ignore flame-flame fruit bait.

Luffy got fed by Rebecca, so he feels like he owes her. He listens to her story, about the country, about the toy soldier, he clearly wants to help her, but he stays silent. Again, unusual reaction for Luffy, normally he would be already enthusiasthically shouting that he will get rid of Doflamingo for Rebecca. But, beating up Doffy wasn't part of Law's plan, so Luffy just sits quietly, torn internally.

Let's compare it to, let's say, Drum Island Arc. Luffy doesn't hesitate at all. That's the Luffy we know.

Luffy is still listening to Rebecca. Gets reminded of Goa Kingdom. He still doesn't declare he will kick Doffy's ass. His resolve to not disappoint Law is really strong, if he's able to stop himself like that.

Law puts up a tough front, but I think he's kinda bluffing here, just throwing Doflamingo's words back at him. Internally, he must be worrying and hoping he won't mess things up himself, that he's able to withhold Doflamingo long enough.

It's not even a matter of whether he believes in what he says himself, but the dedication: he will do anything in his might. Is it for the plan, that backfired on him already? Or did his reason shift, yet again, to what it was in Punk Hazard and that means keeping Luffy relatively safe? He didn't put Luffy in his own group, the one that was at most risk, he didn't leave him up on Sunny (he probably would have wanted to, but not even Law can control Luffy's deep craving for adventure). Law is now just buying time so Luffy's group can destroy the factory; that's his chosen way of keeping them out of trouble and instead taking it all up on himself.

Another bluff from Law. We know he doesn't know what that D. even stands for, so there's no way he could have that much faith in it. After all Law is having trouble believing in things after Flevance. He says this line just because he knows it will rile up Doflamingo, and also because of his trust in Corazon. Cora-san lied a lot though so there's no way Law would take that line at face value and not doubt it at all.

Riling up Doflamingo is a sign that Law allowed him to play on his emotions. Provoking him here will end up in a disastrous result for Law. But let's rewind a moment earlier, Doffy is on a call with his subordinate, telling them to make the factory's security stronger. Ofc Law would lose his calm over that. Because who's in the group destroying the factory? Luffy. Law took it as his personal duty to keep him safe.

Back to Luffy's side now. Wait a moment. Luffy tells his crew to stop the rebellion in the oppressed country?? Despite having been fed by Rebecca and owing her a favour? Did someone just exchange Luffy with an alien here?? That's not the Luffy we know!

Though to be fair, even if it's a bit of a backwards logic, he does think it will help Rebecca as well, because she doesn't want the toy soldier to be in danger. But look at Zoro's reaction here. He's clearly taken aback. Our Zoro, the very first crewmate of Luffy, who was with him practically from the very start. And that Zoro is surprised by Luffy's reaction. He expected him to fully support the rebellion. If that's not the final argument to how strange Luffy is behaving, then I doubt anything can convince you.

His crewmates are getting involved with the rebellion, but Luffy is still quiet and refusing to go against Law's plan. Franky finally loses it and says he will do it, even if it means he will have to do it alone.

And that's finally the moment Luffy breaks his resolve. He's not gonna leave a crewmate alone. He's gonna help with that plan as well, just to fullfill Rebecca's wish, already planning to leave the collosseum before the final fights. It took Luffy only like 30 chapters to finally decide to do what he truly wants to do. For Luffy liberating countries and making people free is very important. He knows already that the peace is Dressrosa is only a facade and he hates when peace is just a facade, it's not a true peace to him. He would go fly some punches the moment he realizes that. The only reason he didn't was Law.

But let's keep in mind, it doesn't paint Law as a bad guy here. His original plan did involve dethroning Doflamingo, just indirectly, not through punching him in the face. Luffy believes Law to be the good guy who also wants to help this country, so he believes in Law's plan. But Luffy will never leave his crewmate in need and that's the only reason Luffy decided to go against Law's plan in the end. We don't know how it would end, would Luffy still try to stop the rebellion after he joined with them? We will sadly never know.

Before they even know what's going on, Luffy's face is already very worried. He clearly has a bad feeling. Perhaps it's an early sign of his future sight talent that will evolve only much, much later. In this case it activated not because Luffy himself was in danger, but because he had a bad feeling someone dear to him is.

What an interesting reaction from Luffy after he realized Doflamingo got Torao. "Torao, why are you fighting with Mingo?!" why would Luffy care about it in a moment like this? Oh, perhaps because he was still believing in Law's plan and facing Doffy was never part of it. That's your final proof that Luffy took this whole operation seriously, he constantly was thinking about Law and his plan, and trying not to disappoint him, so of course he's shocked beyond all logic that Traffy himself went against it. He didn't have much choice, at least that's what Law believes. He would never take an alternative: backing out, because then full attention of Doflamingo would focus on Luffy's group.

And here we go, Luffy's reaction to Law passing out from the lead bullets. Flashback to Ace and Marineford definitely played itself inside Luffy's head at this moment.

How dare you, Mingo, indeed.

Screaming after him, trying to leave and forgetting seastone bars make it impossible for him, very distressed but calmed himself down because he can feel Law's soul didn't yet leave his body. That's probably the first reference to Luffy's skill of being able to tell when someone is just passed out and when they're dead or close to dying (it's the last option in this case btw).

Despite all the chaos and worry, Luffy is still focused enough to realize that the plan did go astray and is so very taken aback. He might even wonder if it's somehow his own fault here, after all he did go to the collosseum, if he didn't then maybe the situation wouldn't evolve the way it did. He probably thinks he could have destroyed that factory super fast if he just wasn't so obssessed with flame-flame fruit.

Nami seems to get it. First it was Zoro who understood how surprisingly important this thing is for Luffy, now Nami understood it as well. And Nami helps Luffy come up with the best option: how to not destroy Law's plan any further by making sure they have the winning hand, because at the end of the day, that's the most important thing, right? Law wanted to keep Momo, Caesar and Smiles away from Doflamingo, so even if anything else about the plan fails, they will make sure this part succeeds no matter what.

Nami does it for Luffy, not for Law, because she realized Luffy cares a lot. She's always there supporting his decisions and wishes, no matter how reckless they are, even if they scare her, just like she does when she's navigating: making sure her skills will bring them anywhere Luffy wants and needs to go. She does the same for him here, just on different level: navigating the plan.

For Luffy, respecting Law's wishes and goals is important. He doesn't want another Ace scenario in which Law sacrifices everything, his dreams, people important to him, his ambitions, just to keep Luffy safe. Those two truly understand each other on a very intimate level, it seems.

And so Luffy makes his decision. Keeping Law safe is more important than sticking to the original plan, but he will leave it up to his crewmates to gather the scattered pieces together so that Law's wishes are fullfilled. He entrusts that with them, meanwhile focusing on what he wants to do the most. And what's that again? Helping Rebecca? Destroying factory? Exposing the darkness of Dressrosa and beating Mingo? Oh no, wait. He says it here: to get Torao back.

Are you disgusted already? I am a bit lol <3

Luffy worrying for his crewmates. On the surface level, nothing unusual right? Because he cares for them, it's to be expected. Except Luffy never worries for them, instead he trusts them. In Punk Hazard when his crew barely made it to escape the gas he didn't worry openly like that, he trusted in his crewmates instead. Usopp even points it out that he wishes Luffy sometimes didn't have that much faith in them, because it can get overwhelming how he needs to meet up his expectations.

But here instead Luffy just worries about his crew. Must be because now, after seeing Law defeated by Mingo, he takes his words about how strong Mingo is even more seriously than before. He believes Law to be so strong after all. He doesn't even have to face Doffy himself to know what Law's defeat means. He's willing to take a bet based on someone else's experience, which is also rather unusual in Luffy's case - he normally always needs to test things out himself, doesn't believe other people's opinions or rumours. Again Law proves to be a rare exception.

I dunno how you all feel about this panel, but seems for Luffy, shit just got very personal. In the frame before (I won't put it here because it takes full page) we see three figures: Toy Soldier (symbolizing Franky's wish to help tontattas with the rebellion), Rebecca (Luffy's debt over the food) and Law. Those are the three reasons that push Luffy to make his decision. He wants to beat Mingo's ass for all of those reasons: because his crewmates want to, because he wants to help Rebecca and... because he wants to get payback in Law's stead. I mean, why else would Law be one of Luffy's reasons here? Beating up Mingo was still not part of Law's plan, so he's not doing it to respect Law's wishes in any way. No, if someone messes with Luffy's crewmate, then they mess up with Luffy, that's just how shit goes.

Wait, didn't you mean to write "friend"? Law isn't Luffy's crewmate! We will get to it in part 2 ;)

Now, after finding out about Sabo being still alive, Luffy can't stop crying or calm himself at all. Zoro's getting super annoyed with him, scolding him, hitting him and nothing works UNTIL he drops Torao's name. Suddenly Luffy gets his shit back together enough to actually say what? "I'll save Torao!" geezas so gross Even his face grows more determined. Reuninting with Sabo was important, but so is saving Torao. They're probably on same level in Luffy's mind and that alone is honestly insane to think about.

Damn, seeing how this post covered only 30 chapters, you can all expect there will be like 3 more parts just focused on Dressrosa alone.

Do let me know if you got convinced with my analysis or not :) or do you still think Luffy didn't care even for a moment about Law and his plan in Dressrosa?

#one piece #trafalgar law #luffy #lawlu #lulaw #luffy x law #love is a hurricane #this one is a bit too dramatic lol #thankfully we soon will reach the Luffy carrying Law mini-arc haha #now it's not just Law obssessed with keeping Luffy safe #shit will go insane in that department for Luffy from now on #they match each other's crazy and overdedication honestly #one piece meta

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getwonderhoyd · 2 years ago

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now this is a really strong parallel, but why is tsukasa the maater of the strimgs while mafuyu is puppeteered by them? because his situation is much more self inflicted

mafuyu is very directly controlled by her mother, but tsukasa's issues are a bit less straight forward in origin. his parents told him to smile and be brave for his sister yes, but they did not intend for him to internalise that as "i cant be sad ever". his expectations for himself, while yes first prompted by his parents, are entirely his own. the subconscious expectations his troupe have for him are because thats what hes lead them to believe. mafuyu very much is at someone elses mercy, but a lot of this is tsukasa's own making, and he doesnt even realise thats what hes doing

it can also tie in to how hes a bit neglected and spent so much time alone growing up. his parents are a negative impact because of the lack of presence in his life, which is the opposite for mafuyu

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anartisticalniche · 1 year ago

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Alright first doodles of my Pirate AU (A Corsair Freebooter) with some new character designs and some moments in the story (that I spent ALL DAY planning lol)

#smg4 #smg3 #smg4 tari #smg4 mario #smg4 luigi #smg4 meggy #smg4 boopkins #smg4 pirate au #a corsair freebooter #my art #yes tari does have a prostetic arm made of wood instead of her meta runner one #she made it herself (and can change to any utensil or blade she wants to)#also smg4 is part of the middle class before departing #and is a screenplay writer for comedy and drama plays #mostly featuring the mario bros x3 #smg34

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beebopboom · 1 year ago

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I find Aziraphale’s tartan really interesting in the way it reacts to light

In a darker setting the blue stands out

but in a lighter setting it’s the red that stands out

reminds me of 3D glasses

#on other rewatch #sorry for the shit screenshots #honestly most of the time it looks like various shades of tan #good omens #good omens 2 #good ineffable omens #good omens meta #aziraphale #a.z. fell #aziraphale’s tartan #good omens costumes #how does the costume department do it #beautiful bastards

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primnroses · 8 months ago

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— Explaining Konohagakure’s Intelligence Department from Naruto to Boruto:

The information presented in this post has been checked and revised. My aim is not to hate or to discredit any of the characters mentioned. Please read about me for further information.

This post will contain evidence in picture format directly from the manga Naruto (1999 - 2014) created by Masashi Kishimoto and published by Shueisha in 1999. I will also use information from the official databooks.

This informative post will explain the role and utility of the Intelligence Division from its debut in Naruto to its development and role in Boruto. I will use information present in the novels and the Boruto manga because it includes character development within canon compliance.

This meta is crossposted in AO3.

I give my permission to use or share this thread with informative purposes as long as you credit me.

I do not support the anime or the work of Studio Pierrot in regards to Naruto because I consider it over exaggerated and beyond biased. Furthermore, these fillers include some actions that these characters are unable to do in the canon according to official sources and they also generate unnecessary debate.

This meta does contain anime scenes from Boruto because it is a monthly manga draft that depends heavily on anime for context.

Please, take this into consideration.

This meta will include a small discussion from my own point of view about the Intelligence Division and its members. There will be strong criticism and complaints, comparisons with other characters, previous leaders, etc.

Important: I will also refer to this Konoha branch as the “Intelligence Department” to distinguish it from the Allied Shinobi Forces Intelligence Division. This post includes a small discussion from my own point of view about the Intelligence Department and its members. There will be criticism and complaints, comparisons with other characters, previous leaders, etc.

The Intelligence Division (情報部, Jōhō-Bu ), or (in this meta) Intelligence Department (情報部門 , Jōhō-Butmon ) is an organization formed by shinobi in charge of extracting information from people via interrogation, gather intel or study material that could be useful for the village or the security of the village. The Intelligence Department is part of the “Special Forces”, a group of other major village branches separate from the three main departmental divisions of Konohagakure.

This branch is currently headed by Ibiki Morino as department head, hailed as a master of interrogation and t0rtur3 in many countries. He is officially known as the “Leader of the Intelligence Division” (木ノ葉隠れ情報部のリーダー, Konoha kakure jōhō-bu no rīdā ) although the translation says "Intelligence Team", versions change depending on who translates.

Ibiki Morino according to the fourth databook.

HISTORY:

It is unknown for how long this team has existed, but the Intelligence Division/Department officially debuted in chapter 418 of Naruto, at least the organization and its headquarters. The concept of interrogation, t0rtur3 or extracting information directly from a target debuted with the introduction of Ibiki Morino as the Captain of the T0rtur3 and Interrogation Force (拷問・尋問部隊隊長 Gōmon jinmon butai no taichō ).

Ibiki's early description as the "Captain of T&I before the Intelligence Department was created.

I want to add that the reason why Ibiki was never stated to be the Head of the Intelligence Department was because it had never appeared until chapter 418, so the existence of this Konoha division was unknown. In the fourth databook entry shown above, this division also debuts and Ibiki's profile reveals that he is in charge of this organization and its multiple units. In previous entries like the first databook, he was only described as Captain of T&I because it was the only unit that existed.

Debut of the Intelligence Department in chapter 418 contrasted with the first character description of Ibiki in the first databook ch. 1-119.

The organization, division or department and all of their subdivisions wear their own unique uniforms. Members of interrogation teams wear a dark gray two piece uniform and a black belt, while other teams prefer other uniforms.

Some members of the Intelligence Department wear uniforms to distinguish themselves from other departments or regular shinobi in a similar way the Medical Department’s Medical Corps wear their standard coats and medical uniforms.

Naruto:

As soon as Ibiki Morino was introduced in the story, we learn about Konoha’s T0rtur3 & Interrogation Force and their crowded unit; as well as getting a general idea about the presence of a team trained to interrogate targets using various methods.

However, the existence and the work of the Intelligence Division would not be known until chapter 418 of the manga. Everything else mentioned before was only the name of the team, but not their work.

During the era of the Fifth Hokage, the Intelligence Division was gathered in a building located in an unknown part of Konoha. The headquarters have different rooms dedicated to the different labor each of the teams carry out.

For example, there are rooms for regular interrogation (in the picture reconstructed after the Pain Arc), rooms for mental interrogation with special machinery, libraries for decoding teams, medical rooms for autopsies and a prison.

T&I Team room, Analysis Team room, Cryptanalysis Team room and Autopsy Room.

The Intelligence Department can be divided into the following teams:

Konoha T0rtur3 and Interrogation Force (木ノ葉暗部拷問・尋問部隊, Konoha Anbu Gomon/Jinmon-butai): Captained by Ibiki Morino (拷問・尋問部隊隊長, Gōmon jinmon-butai taichō), their mission is to gain information from the enemy by t0rturing them or exposing them to arduous interrogation methods. They often work together with ANBU. Some members include Mozuku, Ibiki Morino and chūnin.

Analysis Team (解析班, Kaiseki-han): Previously led by Inoichi Yamanaka. Their role was to take over if the T0rture and Interrogation Force was unsuccessful. Using secret techniques to read the mind, they obtain information directly from the target’s memories. Some members include Mawashi Dokuraku, Kumadori, Tonbo Tobitake and Aoba Yamashiro.

(Medical) Analysis Team: Composed by members of the Medical Department such as Shizune, Sakura Haruno or Ranka, they perform autopsies to obtain information from deceased individuals such as a Pain or White Zetsu. (The name of this team is not Medical Analysis Team but they are included inside the regular Analysis Team. I came up with the distinction to make this list easier.)

Cryptanalysis Team (暗号解読班, Angōkaidoku-han): They are a special team with the mission of decoding secret passwords or messages led by Mitoku. Some members include Shiho, Mitoku and Yurika, as well as Shikamaru Nara and Sakura Haruno occasionally.

Konoha Aviary: Although it is unknown if they belong to the Intelligence Division, this team collaborates with the Cryptanalysis Team. They receive messages from other villages by hawk, often encrypted or containing secret messages.

T&I Team, Analysis Team, Konoha Aviary, Cryptanalysis Team and (Medical) Analysis Team as depicted in the anime.

Other official teams dedicated to gather intelligence but not part of the Intelligence Division officially include:

Astronomical Team: Introduced in The Last: Naruto the Movie, their role is to study the moon and other celestial bodies and search for anomalies that could threaten Konohagakure.

Analytical Study (解読班, Kaidoku-han): Founded by Naruto Uzumaki when he became Hokage, this new team is located in the Hokage Residence. It debuted in Boruto: Naruto the Movie. They are focused on deciphering ancient codes such as Ōtsutsuki scrolls and similar objects. According to Kakashi Hatake in Kakashi Retsuden, some members include Shikamaru Nara, Shizune and Sakura Uchiha.

I want to add that the Analytical Study is something Ūkyo Kodachi wrote in the novel that Naruto created out of the blue, without reason. It seems like he didn't know about he existence of the Cryptanalysis Team, a team dedicated to deciphering any kind of code. He must have not read the manga, although this team appears in the movie too, its origins aren't revealed. In Kakashi Retsuden, the writer Jun Esaka reminds us that Shikamaru Nara and Sakura Haruno/Uchiha are part of the Cryptanalysis Team not the Analytical Study. However, since the Intelligence Department make no more appearances in Boruto, I imagine this is the new Analytical Study Team.

Astronomy Team and Analytical Study in both movies.

Blank Period:

The next time the Intelligence Division or any of its units appear is mainly Sakura Hiden and Sasuke Shinden novels.

Six months after Kaguya Ōtsutsuki was defeated, Sakura Haruno started preparations to create a Therapy Center, a mental health branch for children who are indirect victims of the shinobi world. Two years later, Sakura Haruno successfully founded the first ever mental healthcare institution inside Konoha Hospital ; and other villages like Sunagakure also followed her example.

However, a former member of ANBU Root, Kido Tsumiki, was plotting against Konoha and undergoing private experiments using Sasuke Uchiha and Naruto Uzumaki’s DNA in order to replicate Sharingan and Kurama’s powers.

At the end of the novel, when Sakura defeats Kido, he is taken to the Intelligence Department in order to be interrogated by Ibiki Morino.

Sakura Hiden chapter 8.

Months later, a series of missing Konoha shinobi attacked the village controlled by a jutsu that made their bodies explode. In order to unmask the perpetrator, Aoba Yamashiro, a veteran from the Analysis Team and Inoichi’s successor, read the mind of one of the targets that had been previously incapacitated and was being treated by Sakura. He delved into minds two times successfully.

Aoba Yamashiro becomes the official successor of Inoichi Yamanaka.

He is also the only character that has been shown to be able to reads minds without the aid of the Analysis Team's machine and be successful. He interrogated Kisame Hoshigaki until he broke the jutsu by hurting himself.

Aoba performing Psycho Mind Transmission without a device, a feat only achieved by him.

Boruto:

By the era of the Seventh Hokage, the Intelligence Division does not make any direct appearance, just mentions of one of its units and one of its members, or arbitrary work done by people that did not used to be among their ranks.

At the beginning of the manga, it is revealed that Ibiki Morino does still conduct interrogations, however, this time he is the only one present from the former T&I, now replaced by the help of Sai Yamanaka.

The remains of the Intelligence Department.

In the anime, Ibiki debuts with a similar introduction as in Naruto, probably a rendition to his imposing aura and, since it was his anime debut, an honor to his Naruto debut and to the original manga. He introduces himself as the Captain of T&I, just like in chapter 43.

Ibiki's anime debut.

That is the only “relevant” mention and hint about the Intelligence Department in Boruto. There is one more mention about another one of its units in loose episodes but only in the anime, so they do not tie to the original story and can be dismissed.

Although the Analysis Team no longer exists within the story as a whole, there are characters that fulfill the task of mental interrogation in anime arcs such as Ino Yamanaka in episode 72 and Sasuke Uchiha in episode 151 who after normal interrogation later proceeds to read Shojoji's mind, but they do this as a side ability rather than as part of a team. Characters from the original Analysis Team such as Mawashi, Kumadori, Tonbo and Aoba are no longer in the story.

Ino Yamanaka preparing for mind probing. The interrogators using the help of Sasuke Uchiha's Sharingan for interrogation.

How does the Intelligence Department work and what is their role?

Gathering information from targets in order to learn their motives or their people behind their organization.

DISCUSSION:

How important is the Intelligence Department?

The Intelligence Department is of very little use in Boruto compared to Naruto. However, being written out of the story does not equal being less important.

Like many other teams, the Intelligence Department debuted fairly late into the story, only being fully introduced in the Pain Arc, but it is considered one of the major side supporting branches after the main tree: Shinobi forces, Medical Department/Corps and ANBU. The best example of their usefulness is interrogating Yūdachi from Amegakure, conducting the examination of the Animal Path in order to determine Pain’s Powers and deciphering Jiraiya’s message; all during the Pain Arc.

The equivalent of the Intelligence Department at the time of the battle against Madara and Obito Uchiha, the Intelligence Division (going by the same name as in Konoha), was also one of the most important support systems during the conflict.

Their function was changed during the global conflict.

Rather than collecting intel from enemies, the Intelligence Division would receive messages from the several teams scattered across the battlefield such as the emergence of a new enemy, casualties, infiltrations, etc. They would also relay battle tactics from the Chief Strategist to the different divisions.

One of the most important moves of this division was when the White Zetsu infiltrated the Logistical Support & Medical Division in order to take down the main battle support and their most skilled medics, as well as other battle divisions. It was thanks to Sakura Haruno, who defeated the White Zetsu and figured out their plans, and later contacted the Intelligence Division in order to alert the rest of the divisions, saving everyone from death as early as the first days.

Sakura Haruno defeats White Zetsu and relayed the intel to the Intelligence Division.

The Intelligence Division would receive and relay, not search info for themselves. Like a Communication Division with multiple members and machinery.

The difference between the Intelligence Division and Konoha's Intelligence Department.

The current problem of the Intelligence Department?

In Boruto, the Intelligence Department suffered a downgrade compared to previous appearances, so vast that the notion of the branch has almost completely disappeared. It is now down to one single member left and filler interrogations that serve no purpose to the real plot.

The downgrade is in relevance and build-up.

We used to see Ibiki Morino, Aoba Yamashiro or Inoichi Yamanaka performing interrogations on targets who would invade Konoha or trespass Konoha with dubious intentions.

The role of an interrogator has been simplified, with only brief mentions of Ibiki performing said interrogation sessions off-screen. Nothing of what we used to see in the past, but, of course, in peaceful times or times when the information about the enemy is on full display, there is no need for interrogators or intel gathering. There are other teams and individuals in Konoha, such as ANBU or Sasuke Uchiha, collecting information.

On the other hand, when it is needed or should be used, it is not.

The Intelligence Department in itself is not a failure, nor do their ranks fail at doing their job or need other people to step in for them. The failure comes with the writing quality in the sequel compared to Naruto, rather than the organization itself.

Could they be redeemed?

The Intelligence Division does not need to be redeemed or rewritten, the problem lies in how they are projected in the sequel.

Their functionality is perfect, at least in Naruto. They have the world’s best interrogator as their leader, several members of the staff and many specialized units.

Some of the things they could do are:

Interrogate enemies and former Kara outers such as Amado Sanzu, so before letting them do as they please they would go through Ibiki Morino, or Aoba Yamashiro if needed, first.

Recuperate bodies of the enemy if possible in order to be studied by the Medical Analysis Team and other medics such as Sakura Uchiha and Shizune.

Considering Konoha is the most powerful shinobi village and the Intelligence Department has resources, the usage of their staff leaves much to be desired in the script.

Note: The Fourth Shinobi World W4r has been replaced by global conflict to avoid mature content flags. T0rtur3 has also been censored.

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chefkids · 8 months ago

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Ziggy time.

They only gave us a teaser because what is ahead for Carmy is really going to test all of our patience and endurance. He is about to be put through so much suffering that we are not even prepared for. From going Michelin mode to his failationship to his mother to letting down Syd. This dude is going to struggle.

#the bear #carmen berzatto #sydcarmy #the bear fx #the tortured chefs department #the bear meta #the bear season 3

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curioushabitforarivergod · 8 months ago

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Pre wwii what would conditions in the orphanage Tom grew up in hsve been like? (Ie in the 1926-37 period)

Honestly, conditions would've been pretty shit. Firstly disease was rife, especially as the East End (where Wool's presumably is) was a slum throughout the Industrial Revolution and into the 20th century (with it only really changing post WWII). Tom would be familiar with stuff like mumps and whooping cough, even if he never got sick himself due to magic protecting him (as we see with Harry). But they'd also be other diseases like tuberculosis, diphtheria, scarlet fever, rickets, polio and even the flu. It's likely multiple children at the orphanage would have physical disabilities due to polio maybe even with callipers (a permanent kind of splint to help people who'd suffered from polio walk). While children would often be isolated with most illnesses, it would be incredibly difficult for an orphanage to do so, and it's probable that children died as bouts of sickness and disease spread through the orphanage. Kids who were one day at dinner are gone the next.

The first legal precedent for adopting children occurs with the Adoption of Children Act in 1926, so legal adoption how we understand it today, was fairly new. Children were lined up on Sundays, washed and in their best clothes (after attending church!) for rich people to adopt, but it tended to be a way for getting free labour rather than out of an actual desire to have children to love and care for.

I'm not sure what JKR was basing her orphanage off (likely something modern), but Tom probably wouldn't have gotten his own room, even if he was considered 'insane'. There simply wasn't enough room. Children shared a dormitory, one that could be overstuffed and cramped, sometimes even with several children to a bed. Food was similar — it was a cramped long hall (almost like a smaller, horrible version of the great hall) with rows of tables and children waiting their turn for a meal. They were probably only given one or two a day; likely gruel in the morning and bread with a stew in the evening. Tom's diet would've been vegetarian because meat was insanely expensive, although he may have had meat on Christmas and potentially Sundays if the orphanage could afford it.

On that note, Tom and the other orphans would've been Christian, most likely CoE. Although Catholic orphanages did exist, Wool's is not named after a Saint and so was more likely Protestant. Tom would've gone to church every Sunday, perhaps in a chapel on Wool's grounds, although if not, it would've been at the local church. He also would've been expected to pray. He'd go to Sunday School alongside normal school (which would've been at the local public school or perhaps, if Wool's was especially large, which I don't think it was, there would've been one of the staff who could teach or they'd bring someone in). For Christmas itself, Tom would likely get an orange which was incredibly special due to his diet likely not including fruit.

Tom would've shared everything, including clothes. He probably didn't even have underwear, and may sometimes have had to wear dresses/frocks, especially when he was younger, due to a lack of clothes. These clothes would've been stiff and itchy, potentially with lice. They would've been washed once a week, as with the orphans themselves (in large buckets!), and been hung out to dry on huge lines. Depending on how many clothes there were to go round, Tom would've spent this time in underwear (although sometimes orphans didn't even have this) or in another pair of clothes that had been worn by other children hundreds of times before. It's no wonder Tom stole — he literally had nothing, not even his own clothes (and perhaps not even underwear either).

Tom would've been expected to care for children younger than him, including babies, from a very young age. Even if he didn't enjoy it, Tom would've been good with young children and it's no wonder he was able to make Head Boy at Hogwarts because of it.

The Great Depression would've made these conditions worse. Although some of the conditions would've improved over the years, the Great Depression meant that everything was more expensive. Meals were probably downsized, if not cut entirely to one a day. The amount of kids at the orphanage probably rose during this time due to parents having to abandon children, which would've been especially prevalent in the East End which, as I've mentioned previously, was just slums and dockyard. Meat probably disappeared completely from Tom's diet, even at Christmas.

All in all, Tom's early life and conditions at the orphanage were grim. Kids died around him, conditions were cramped with diseases, illness and lice, he'd not even have his own clothes, meals would be limited, he'd spend his free time looking after kids younger than him and he'd fear being adopted. The roaring twenties were shit and the thirties shitter still. Hogwarts would've been the best thing that ever happened to Tom — it's no wonder he called it his home.

#tom riddle #tom marvolo riddle #tom riddle meta #harry potter meta #hp historical context #hp meta #idk what research jkr did but she was wrong #I found parts of this with just a quick google search and other stuff I already knew #but jkr failed in the research department #tom would NOT have had his own room #also this makes dumbles treatment of tom so much worse #ask #anon ask

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blorger · 4 days ago

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I don't think I'm saying anything earth-shatteringly new when I state that the inner workings of the Ministry of Magic aren't exactly expanded upon in the hp books. it's safe to say that Rowling herself probably didn't think too deeply about the executive, judiciary and legislative powers of the magical government since the information we do have is scant and often contradictory; nevertheless, I have attempted to compile all the relevant facts disclosed in the books.

When researching the subject, I have not used any external material (i.e. Pottermore, JKR interviews, facts gleaned from post-7th book canon) because, having been written ex post facto, they are by nature unreliable. In the time inbetween writing the original books and the disclosure of post-canon details, jkr had time to do some revisionism and fill in existing gaps (the existence of which she may have been alerted to by others) and I'm not interested in any of jkr's attempts to rewrite history, regardless of the subject.

That said, I give you

The Definitive HP Law Compendium

a) THE MINISTRY

Our most exhaustive documentation on how the Ministry of Magic is structured comes by courtesy of the ministry elevators, which helpfully list all departments floor by floor.

on level 1: Minister of Magic and Support Staff (Umbridge's offices in DH are located here)

on level 2: Department of Magical Law Enforcement (henceforth shortened to DMLE), which includes the Improper Use of Magic offices, Auror Headquarters and the Wizengamot Administrative Services.

although not specified by the lift, this is also where the Misuse of Muggle Artefacts office (where Arthur Weasley works) is located, which tells us that the lift's announcements are not necessarily exhaustive.

on level 3: Department of Magical Accidents and Catastrophes composed of the Accidental Magic Reversal Squad, Obliviator Headquarters and Muggle-worthy Excuse Committee

on level 4: Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures which includes of the Beast, Being and Spirit Divisions, the Goblin liaison Office and the Pest Advisory Bureau.

on level 5: Department for International Magical Cooperation including the International Magical Trading Standards body, the International Magical Office of Law, and the British chapter of the International Confederation of Wizards (also referred to as the "International Confederation of Warlocks")

on level 6: Department of Magical Transport which includes the Floo Network Authority, Broom Regulatory Control, the Portkey Office and the Apparition Test Center (considering that Hogwarts student seem to take their apparition test at school, this is likely where adult wizards take and/or retake their tests)

on level 7: Department of Magical Games and Sports, which includes the British and Irish quidditch League (is magical Ireland not divided? unclear), the Headquarters of the Official Gobstones Club and, bizarrely, the Ludicrous Patents office (I'd be inclined to think this is a sports-related patent office if it wasn't the only one mentioned in the books)

on level 8 is the atrium, which Harry describes as a "very long and splendid hall" with many gilded fireplaces on both sides (left is for arrivals and right is for departures). This is also where the Fountain of Magical Brethren and the security desk are located. At the end of the hall, golden gates lead to a smaller room where the lifts (at least 20 in number) are.

on level 9: Department of Mysteries and beyond

The lift stops here but we know from OotP that there's at least one more floor that is only accessible by stairs from level 9 (which also brings up the question: are the upper floors also connected by stairs or is it an either/or scenario?). On this additional floor is Courtroom 10, which is supposedly no longer in use as of OotP but was still being used in the immediate aftermath of the first wizarding war. The courtroom's name implies the presence of at least 9 other courtrooms and, though their location is unclear, they do not seem to be located on this floor.

b) KNOWN GOVERNING BODIES

Going purely off of the only two law-adjacent departments mentioned by the ministry lifts, there's both and international and state law department (on level 5 and 2 respectively) but seemingly no distinction between civil and criminal law.

Besides what described above by the lift, level 2 also appears to be where some offences are judged, as Harry's trial in OotP was originally scheduled to take place here, right inside the office of the head of the DMLE.

We know that, during Harry's time, the DMLE is headed by Amelia Bones, who gets quietly offed between OotP and HBP. She is succeeded by the imperiused Pius Thicknesse (who goes on to become minister of magic during the second war), who is in turn succeeded by noted Death Eater Corban Yaxley.

We further know that, prior to Amelia's tenure (though it's unknown if directly preceding), the department used to be headed by Barty Crouch sr., who later went on to head the office for International Magical Cooperation (where he was Percy Weasley's boss). This is implied to be a lateral career move at best since Sirius describes Crouch in GoF as being "shunted sideways".

The International Federation of Warlocks (part of the Office for International Cooperation) seems to be a legislative body of sorts, as we'll see later that it originated many of the laws mentioned in the books. We know that it was established prior to the advent of the Statue of Secrecy (and the subsequent creation of the Ministry of Magic) because professor Binns mentions they convened in 1289 in one of his lectures, implying that its existence precedes that date.

The books make no mention of the presence of a parliament in the wizarding world, not even in a Chamber of Lords-type fashion.

[note that Dumbledore seems to have had high positions in both the International Federation, where he was Supreme Mugwump, and the Wizengamot, where he was Chief Warlock. It's unknown what either of these titles entail]

Moving on to the judiciary branch, we know of the existence of the Wizengamot. It's described as "the wizard high court", which (to me) implies the presence of a lower court. The Council of Magical Law may be the lower court's name, as it may be the court presiding the trials Harry witnesses in Dumbledore's pensieve

(from PoA)

As we'll see later, the postwar trials of Igor Karkaroff and Ludo Bagman, and the joint trial of Rabastan Lestrange, Rodolphus Lestrange, Bellatrix Lestrange and Barty Crouch jr are described quite differently from Harry's trial before the Wizengamot, which is what led me to believe that they were presided by two different courts.

The magical world doesn't appear to have an appellate court although, if jkr modeled the wizarding judiciary after the ones present in British Law, the Wizengamot may be modeled after the Crown Court and thus also serve an appellate function.

Finally, the books make no mention of barristers, solicitors or any other type of lawyer. The trials we witness are not presided by judges but by government officials and there is no indication that the Wizengamot members (who serve the function of a jury) have any type of legal training.

The defendants in the trials we happen to witness don't appear to have counsel of any type. Dumbledore acts as a defense lawyer of sorts for Harry in OotP but he announces himself as a "witness for the defence". Seeing that Dumbledore appears to be a living exception to all magical laws and customs, this doesn't actually tell us much.

The government officials acting in the function of the prosecution and the judge both do exhibit some knowledge of wizarding laws, as does Dumbledore (who was at one point chief Warlock) although, since Dumbledore is Dumbledore and therefore omniscient, this may not be indicative of any skill requirement for the position he held.

c) KNOWN LAWS

1.1 legal documents referenced in the books (in tentatively chronological order)

the Statute of Secrecy, decreed by the International Confederation of Warlocks in 1689

unnamed law decreed by the Warlocks' Convention of 1709: it outlaws dragon Breeding (as per Ron in PS)

The Decree for the Reasonble Restriction of Underage Sorcery (1875), which partly states in clause seven that "magic may be used before Muggles in exceptional circumstances, and as those exceptional circumstances include situations that threaten the life of the wizard or witch himself, or witches, wizards, or Muggles present at the time of the..." (as quoted by Dumbledore in OotP)

unnamed law punishing the use of Unforgivables

unnamed law delineating the purposes and limitations of the Trace

the Wizengamot charter of rights (mentioned on OotP): it partly states that an accused has the right to present defence witnesses (as stated by Dumbledore in OotP)

law fifteen B "any attack by a magical creature who is deemed to have near-human intelligence, and therefore considered responsible for its actions..." (as incompletely quoted by Dolores Umbridge in OotP)

the Decree for Justifiable Confiscation, which gives the ministry power to confiscate the contents of a will. It was created to stop wizards from passing on dark artefacts (as mentioned in DH)

unnamed law written by Arthur Weasley regarding the possible legality of flying cars/ enchanted muggle vehicles (as mentioned in CoS)*

unnamed document establishing an embargo on flying carpets, implied to have been drafted by Arthur Weasley (from GoF)*

Arthur Weasley's Muggle Protection Act (proposed legislation c.a. 1992, unknown contents, unknown if put into law)*

the International Ban on Dueling, implied to be an international agreement, Transylvanians haven't signed it as of summer 1994 (from GoF)

*: it's unclear how Arthur Weasley, who is not a lawyer, an elected official or a member of the only known legislative body in the books (the International federation of wizards), is able to both draft and propose legislation

1.2 educational decrees

I am including these because they are treated like laws. They are pushed for by a minister and they need to "pass", presumably through a parliament of sorts, in order to be enacted. Prior to the events of OotP there seem to have been 21 educational decrees, the contents of which we are unaware of. The ones added in book 5 by the Fudge administration (with the help of Dolores Umbridge) are as follows:

n.22 "in the event of the current headmaster being unable to provide a candidate for a teaching post, the Ministry should select an appropriate person"

n.23, creates the new position of "Hogwarts high inquisitor"

n.24:

n25:

n.26 "teachers are hereby banned from giving students any information that is not strictly related to the subjects they are paid to teach"

n.27 "any student found in possession of the magazine The Quibbler will be expelled"

n.28 "Dolores Jane Umbridge (High Inquisitor) has replaced Albus Dumbledore as Head of Hogwarts School of Wichcraft and Wizardry"

n.29: never enacted, concerning the use of physical punishment at Hogwarts

unnamed order for the expulsion of peeves, possibly part of decree 29, also never enacted

d) HARRY'S TRIAL

In OotP, Harry is tried for underage magic following his use of the Patronus enchantment to protect both himself and his cousin Dudley from dementors.

This is Harry's second infraction of the Decree for the Reasonble Restriction of Underage Sorcery and he is being made an example of for political reasons since, in recently claiming that Voldemort had returned, he made an enemy out of the Fudge administration. It's therefore unclear if the Decree has a two strikes and you're out policy or if Harry's prosecution is just caused by the Ministry's desire to throw the book at him. By the time Harry receives the letter informing him of this upcoming trial, he'd supposedly performed underage magic outside of Hogwarts thrice but only received a written warning once (in Cos, when said magic was actually performed by Dobby). When Harry blew up his aunt Marge in PoA, Fudge himself dismissed the event as a non-issue, claiming:

The circumstances in this case being Sirius's escape of Azkaban and his presumed intention to target Harry. Of course, Harry's notoriety may have also played a factor.

Despite being a minor, Harry doesn't seem to be allowed an escort as Arthur Weasley is unable to enter the courtroom. Harry goes in alone (as does every other defendant we meet); it also appears that the trial is closed to the public.

Harry's trial is described as a "disciplinary hearing", both before it was supposed to take place in front of the Wizengamot and after:

and

Despite this, the hearing is presided by the Ministry of Magic himself, (Cornelius Fudge). A Wizengamot trial seems to be, by nature, a criminal trial and Dumbledore, in his defense of Harry, implies it is highly unusual for disciplinary hearings to be tried as such. Indeed, before the trial was moved from Amelia Bones's office to Courtroom 10, the judgement of the head of DMLE was deemed to be sufficent.

The Wizengamot members act as a jury of sort, they are described to be:

The Wizengamot appears to have elders; we are introduced to only two - Griselda Marchbanks and Tiberius Ogden - so it's unclear how many there are and, furthermore, we are never informed of their function.

Wizengamot proceedings require the presence of interrogators. In Harry's trial they are Cornelius Fudge (Minister of Magic), Amelia Bones (Head of the DMLE) and Dolores Umbridge (Senior Undersecretary to the Minister).

For some reason, Percy Weasley acts as court scribe despite it not being his job title. It's unclear wether this is an extraordinary case or if stenographers really don't exist in the magical world. (also, why do they even need stenographers when wizards have quick quotes quills?)

Dumbledore describes himself as a witness for the defense, even if he takes on a role that seems more similar to that of a defense attorney. Mrs Figg is also described as a witness but, unlike Dumbledore, she was not allowed to enter the court by herself and required an escort in order to join the proceedings (Percy Weasley).

For some reason, Dumbledore was informed of the trial's change of location, which implies he was also aware of the time and location of the original hearing. At no point in time does Harry retain his services (he is in fact surprised to see Dumbledore there) despite the fact that Dumbledore speaks for Harry throughout.

Interestingly, though the trial also serves to determine wether Harry is going to be expelled from Hogwarts, Dumbledore's judgement in his role as Headmaster is not required. The Ministry, it appears, can decide to expel students without the approval of the school's headmaster (can the headmaster expel students without ministry approval? unclear).

The proceedings seem to be very formal, as Harry is being interrogated with yes and no questions and is given no time for elucidations. Despite this, Dumbledore is allowed to have multiple very informal conversations with the minister of magic himself and at no point does he use court lingo, in complete opposition to how Umbridge, an interrogator, is treated.

Harry observes that, in order to speak, she has to lean forward, at which point the Minister states

This is the only time in all of the books that this happens. The other interrogator, head of DMLE Amelia Bones, appears to speak whenever she pleases, as she interrupts Harry mid-sentence and addresses the Minister like a peer.

It's quite likely that Dumbledore was allowed free rein on account if his status and fame and his presence likely threw a wrench in what were otherwise going to be very strict bureaucratic proceedings.

Finally, Wizengamot rulings are made by show of hands and it doesn't look like they need to be initiated by the person heading the proceedings. For Harry's trial, it's Amelia Bones that calls onto the jury's decision and not Fudge.

e) OTHER TRIALS

The first trial we see in the books happens at least six months after the first wizarding war, since that's the time it took for Alastor Moody to track down the defendant, Igor Karkaroff.

What Harry witnesses (by wading through Dumbledore's pensieve memories) is not, however, Karkaroff's sentencing but a follow-up hearing to determine wether he is in possession of information that may lead to the capture of more Death Eaters. Karkaroff is taken from Azkaban in order to do so and he is accompanied/carried by dementors.

The case takes place in open court, as Harry sees that "rows and rows of witches and wizards were seated around every wall on what seemed to be benches rising in levels"; these proceedings, in stark difference to Harry's, are open to the public (possible proof n.1 that this is not taking place in front of the Wizengamot but in a different court).

At this moment in time, Dumbledore could very well be chief warlock of the wizengamot (we don't know when he was instated) but he sits among the spectators (possible proof n.2 ). Despite being a member of the public, Dumbledore is seen interrupting proceedings without permission (to defend Snape, whom Karkaroff implicates). Because it's Dumbledore doing it, it's again unclear wether this is permitted or if the court is making an exception for him.

This first trial is, like all the trials Harry witnesses indirectly, presided by Barty Crouch sr., who at this point in time heads the DMLE. (possible proof n.3, maybe all wizengamot trials are presided by the minister and all council trials are headed by the DMLE chief?)

The Second trial Harry sees in Dumbledore's memories is that of Ludo Bagman (for passing information to Rockwood, whom Karkaroff implicated in the first memory). Dumbledore is once again not there in any official capacity and is sitting among the public; the proceedings are implied to take place at a later date, as Harry remarks that Crouch's appearance has changed.

We join Ludo in his trial's sentencing phase and indeed Harry notices the presence of a jury, which is not described as having the monogrammed plum robes of Wizengamot members (possible proof n.4 although, since the events take place in GoF and Harry's trial occurs in OotP, jkr may have simply done an oopsie).

This trial seems to be more informal, as the crowd appears to behave quite rowdily (with no intervention) and a member of the jury waylays the proceedings in order to compliment Ludo's flying at his most recent Quidditch match. This is most likely because of both public sentiment and the perceived innocence of the defendant.

Notably, Ludo's trial is the only one that we know for sure was attended by the press, as Harry notices a young Rita Skeeter sitting near Dumbledore.

The final trial witnessed by Harry appears to once again be a sentencing, that of Barty Crouch jr, Bellatrix Lestrange and the brothers Rodolphus and Rabastan Lestrange (who were seemingly all tried together and received a single sentence). Harry once again remarks that Crouch Sr's looks have changed, helping us determine that time has once again passed between the memories. This sentencing is once again done through show of hands by a jury (who, again, is not described as wearing Wizengamot robes) and Dumbledore is still sitting among the public.

Despite it being another sentencing, it appears that the defendants were already being detained in Azkaban as they are accompanied by six dementors, unlike Ludo Bagman, though this may be due to the difference in the severity of their actions; Bagman was seemingly a free man when he entered the courtroom as he'd participated in a quidditch match not one week before.

It's during his trial that the Council of Magical Law is mentioned by name (the only time in the books). Since all three of the pensieve trials share multiple similarities - way more than they do with Harry's- this, together with the evidence shown above, leads me to conclude that

1 All three trials take place before the same court

2 the Council of Magical Law is not necessarily another the name for the Wizengamot and therefore

3 there's at least two different courts codified in the magical law system

Of course, these discrepancies may very well be oopsies on jkr's part. Although Dumbledore's role as chief Warlock can be ascertained as early as PS (thanks to the header on Harry's acceptance letter), the Wizengamot doesn't get mentioned by name until OotP. Furthermore, the pensieve trials and Harry's take place in different books which means jkr may have added on to the concept in the interim.

f) CONCLUSION

There is none, I have nothing else to say. Class is dismissed, I need to go have a lie-down.

#hp #hp meta #harry potter meta #this took years off my life and I didn't need to write any of it #I just noticed that Harry is being tried for improper use of magic but Mafalda Hopkirk is not present at his trial #and she's the head of that department #I don't feel like rewriting anything so this stays in the tags #the blorger special

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stagefoureddiediaz · 1 month ago

Text

I will just be over here screaming until the end of time (and not just because this is a beautiful shot!)

I am trying not to read into this set too much - because it was clearly filmed during the s7 filming (its Eddies old living room rug - hes changed to a striped one now!)- but man is it hard!! Also that red Persian rug is very heavily tied to Eddie‘s wife and his girlfriends.

It’s very interesting to note that that red Persian rug first appears when Shannon comes back and has now left the moment Marisol has gone and the moment Eddie vocalised to Kim his internal struggles and unresolved feelings around Shannon and her request for a divorce. The thing is Persian rugs are very tied to the concept of status and history and they’re quite symbolic, particularly in western culture, of family and familial expectations (I need to write a matter on the history of the Persian rug and it’s meaning in western Society but that will have to wait till hiatus but basically they were expensive and therefore handed down through the family and became attached to the concept of upholding family values) so there is this idea that Eddie‘s Persian rug is about him conforming to society and familial expectations i.e. marriage before children and being a family - divorce being a bad thing, as well as heteronormativity.

The fact it’s now been changed to stripes - which are heavily connected to the Buckley-Diaz family dynamic, and specifically to Chris, and the concept of change being brought about by struggle or danger. A few examples of this or the fact that Chris is wearing stripes at the beach when Shannon tells Eddie she thinks she’s pregnant, we also see Chris and stripes during the tsunami, Chris‘s room is heavily striped with rug bedding and curtains, he’s wearing stripes in the lead up to Eddie‘s breakdown in season five. We also see him in stripes in the build up to the shooting. With the connection to the Buckley-Diaz dynamic - these are all moments that ultimately strengthen the bond - making the family unit stronger. So Eddie striped rug is suggesting to me that the Buckley-Diaz family unit will become even stronger when they get through this current arc (I mean that’s saying Buddie Canon very loudly to me but I’m a clown so take or leave that as you wish!)

Hello gut stuff still being up on Eddies fridge I desperately need to know if it’s actually still there in s8 filming time!

Plus boxing gloves hanging on the wall above the yoga mat - I see you reference to fighting and to finding inner calm. Eddie fighting - fighting to get Chris to talk to him - to tell him things - to be open with him. Fighting to be a father. But doing it in a calm and measured way - moving through the sequence like one does in yoga.

But its actually the sitting on the coffee table of it all that I am screaming the most loudly about - that is a choice - its a place we see him sit when he talks to Chris when things are serious - think when Chris is playing video games late at night and Eddie finds him and they talk, think when Eddie spills hot chocolate over the gingerbread house and Chris throws the house to the ground - both times Eddie sits on the table - he’s also sat on that same table when he asks Buck to try and talk Chris out of leaving (wearing the same shirt I might add!!). So this Eddie sitting on the table is very much connected to difficult parental moments for Eddie - moments when he is super respectful of Chris (hell even the Marisol phone call at the end of s6 plays into this theme - Chris being included in Eddies potential romantic relationship from the start - the lesson learnt from the Ana of it all and showing Eddie is holding open dialogue with Chris), of Chris’s wishes. It’s indicative of the idea that Eddie will be patient with Chris, but he will eventually win out - and that they will be stronger for it as father and son.

Interestingly Bobby also sits on that coffee table - when he talks to Eddie in the aftermath of him smashing up his room - when Bobby is doing a similar thing to Eddie as Eddie does with Chris - supportive but strong and firm right down to the use of same maroon/burgundy for the ‘parents’ shirt.

Right Eddie house screaming done - now on to screaming about Chris on my next post!

#Kym meta #911 spoilers #911 meta #The Diaz house metas #set meta #colour theory #obsessed with the set and props departments #911 costume theory #911 set theory #Kym costume meta #911 costume meta #eddie diaz #911 abc #Christopher Diaz #might come back to this post and add in some pictures of the stripes later!#buddie #808

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