#Marc is okay I think | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

batsplat · 4 months ago

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there is that adorable pic of a 13 year old pecco and marc, hugging him by the shoulders. pecco hadn’t become a rossi protege yet, marc recently won his title in 125, they are both so so young. like, of course pecco is going to think a senior (albeit as famous as marc was at the time) is cool and worthy of “celebrity” picture! of course marc is going to take photos with kids that ask him to!

and then they meet at the rossi ranch years later, pecco after an abysmal rookie moto3 season, but part of vr46 academy, marc as a multiple world champion in different categories. like, i’m sure they’ve crossed paths in the paddock, but it looks like the ranch was their first outside of work get-together?

i do wonder at what point did pecco stop seeing marc as this admirable motogp giant? they are co-workers/competitors now, supposedly equals. does the childish wonderment and idealization ever go away, when you are put head-to-head? yes, pecco has said that he doesn’t consider himself on marc’s level, but it does really answer the question, when marc achieves something awesome, like a fucking pole on a honda, does it fill pecco only with the sense of falling short, jealousy, frustration, or is there that tiny 13 year old pecco somewhere inside going “wow, this guy is awesome”

anon... first of all this ask is right up my street. second of all, yeah no the thirteen year old never entirely went away

to some extent obviously all riders kinda do this when they end up competing with the guys they grew up admiring. (or well in modern motogp, that's how it worked out - the competitive windows do have to be big enough, yeah? I'm not sure about the nineties premier class riders, but starting from valentino who had the biaggi poster, was a capirossi fan, an norick fan... but then also didn't get to compete directly with doohan for instance and was instead just mentored by him. valentino sticking around for so long basically Breaks this.) like I was talking in this ask about the dani/marc relationship and how when we talk about dani being marc's 'reference', it does mean something slightly different than the valentino hero idealisation. basically, it's the question of whether you think you're gonna fight that guy one day, if all goes well... because if you're little pecco, right, you're looking up to marc and want to be him, but you also want to beat him (if little pecco is feeling very brave). so marc fills the role of 'reference', the bloke who is basically always a few steps ahead of pecco - exaggerated by how precocious marc was. the role of 'hero' is of course again filled by valentino, though in this case pecco didn't actually have to meaningfully compete against his idol. the separation is a bit cleaner

and look, I doubt this ever really went as far as marc's admiration for dani. but yeah as you say: at the end of the day it's this cool superstar who is tearing up the lower categories and then is tearing up the premier class... like that's this prodigy... and then you get to be part of your actual hero's academy AND you're there when the prodigy gets invited to your hero's home!! not only is marc cool, not only is he winning everything, but also valentino clearly thinks he's fantastic... you kinda want valentino to think you are fantastic in the same way he talks about marc and looks at him... and pecco is like. seventeen at this point. great age. super impressionable. he's having a marginally better season than his absolute flop moto3 campaign but it's still!! rough! you know, so far away from this world that valentino and marc inhabit. obviously young athletes dream, obviously they have to be a bit delusional, obviously they have to believe they'll make it, but those are the kinds of harrowing years that really dent your actual belief. like god, the world of valentino and marc must have felt kinda unattainable back then...

anyway, obviously a year later marc became public enemy number one. personally, if I had to guess, I don't really think valentino has ever spoken much to his proteges about the details of the marc feud. it's the kind of thing where you maybe occasionally badmouth a guy you all hate when the kids are in the room, some dismissive comment or some slightly ugly sideswipe... but valentino did probably prefer to keep his mentees out of the whole thing and isn't giving them particularly detailed hot takes on sepang 2015. I mean, look at what luca said last year

hey, he could be lying, but is he really the type? "I'm sure he's still angry" - even that doesn't sound like he knows anything particularly specific about where his brother's at these days. if valentino hasn't spoken much about sepang 2015 with his own flesh and blood, then is he really giving long debriefs to marco bezzecchi? are you sure? of course, unlike luca, pecco does have the dubious distinction of actually being at sepang 2015, so there's always the chance he was in the room when some nasty things were being said about marc... but my sense is that all the academy riders have kind of been left to their own devices when making up their minds about the marc/valentino relationship. just probably a bit of a no-go topic on most days. and while pecco may have initially been completely on board with the marc hate, over the years his stance has mellowed to the brave and bold position of 'actually, I have other stuff to worry about'. like, this is why you don't get this weird bez-style all-over-the-place behaviour from pecco - fundamentally, he is far too sensible and far too interested in his own career to be going around seeking revenge on the behalf of his mentor. it's not like valentino really seems to expect him to either. sometimes the best thing you can do is simply try not to care that much

soooooo fundamentally you get to this place where for quite a few years, pecco really isn't thinking about marc too often I reckon... it's very much background noise - even when he's gotten to motogp, he's obviously not exactly fighting with marc from the word go. he has other stuff to worry about! then marc is gone for a bit! 2021 is kinda weird because pecco never really felt in that championship fight (I mean, maybe he thought he was idk) because he only really got going late in the season, and marc definitely wasn't in that title fight... BUT pecco got his first ever motogp win as a result of a proper great defensive ride against marc at aragon! seven overtakes and re-overtakes in the last few laps! truly some proper smart riding, anticipating where marc was going to attack and figuring out how to get him back every time. and of course, that's like... got to be one of the coolest ways possible you can get your first win? beating one of the all time greats (even if a physically impaired one) in a direct extensive duel? genuinely looking at the current grid, I'd struggle to come up with a cooler maiden win... oh I suppose zarco last year would actually be a decent shout. one of those two imo! anyway what an ego boost that must be

typed out the response to this ask on wednesday and let it *vaguely gestures* simmer a bit, but actually thursday they had pecco on that motogp podcast thingy and talked him through basically his whole career. which is one of those cases of 'not necessarily anything new, but always interesting to hear how the bloke himself puts it', and anyway it does also cover a lot of the stuff referenced in this post, would recommend. I did want to quickly bring it up because pecco does talk about aragon 2021 in that (at around 23 mins in):

Q: And the amount of pressure, for everyone who doesn't remember - it was Aragon '21, vs Marc Marquez, anti-clockwise track, everyone's expecting a certain person to win. [...] Seven times, he passes you in the last three laps, and every time you have to find something, for your first win - A: Not bad, yeah? Q: How was that feeling crossing the line, because it's your first win but it's also the last three laps of craziness that you've come through? A: Yeah, I remember that... we were prepared to fight for this victory because we work at it a lot and we were finally prepared and as soon as started the weekend I was feeling great. Marc was very strong, Fabio was very strong also... We started to race and I did the pole position and then we started to race and Marc was like always super super fast in Aragon because it's a left hander track, he's very strong in Aragon, it's his home grand prix, so... I was trying the maximum and I was there fighting with him and for me was fantastic because I was very strong in a very complicated track for me. The first - was not the first possibility to win but was one of the first and we were fighting with the maximum with the top [player?] so defeating him in Aragon was fantastic and I never could have asked more for my first victory for sure. Because some win their first victory with gap or with some luck, we fight. [...] Yeah, was fantastic.

like I said. it's a really cool win! pecco knows it's a cool win! he knows it's a cool win because it's marc! even two premier class title pecco still feels deeply aware of how special that was

*reaches up to scratch at ear in slightly self-conscious manner when saying "not bad" about beating the eight times world champion*

because it does mean something extra to beat marc, right? and that's also what this represents to pecco, as an opportunity... obviously on balance he'd very much want marc to not be in his team, because he's not an idiot and he's aware it's going to be a bit of a nightmare. that being said! of course, would there be anything cooler than for him than actually beating marc in the same team... I don't want to sound like a broken record on this topic but just to reiterate, none of the titles won post-2019 are in any way diminished by marc's absence - and fundamentally pecco must know he's a deserving champion, even if he still considers himself on a different level from valentino and marc. but of course it would mean something special to beat him! it's already meant something special to beat him in individual races! it'd mean something special if he beats him this year, older bike be damned! and it'd mean something special next year. pecco is deeply wary of marc, and rightly so, but don't take that to mean he isn't up for the fight. he always has been

weirdly enough, I do actually think being valentino's protege might help him be sensible about marc. because the thing is pecco has clearly put some thought into all of this at some point and had to decide for himself... or well, to make peace with the fact that he is not going to be the next valentino rossi - and that he doesn't really want to be. it's kinda the casey versus jorge distinction: you can be a valentino fan and admire everything he's done on-track but still very much know that valentino the persona isn't something you really want to attempt to emulate because it just isn't you, or you can hunger after attaining that kind of 'character' and popularity for yourself and find yourself disillusioned when things turn out differently. pecco's in the casey camp, minus the desire to shove valentino off the nearest cliff edge. like he says:

man wants a quiet life when he's not doing the death sport. and, y'know, marc might not have quite those stratospheric levels of popularity as valentino does... but it's fairly obvious pecco links them in his mind, which is not just about talent. they're both Characters, they're both figureheads in the sport, they're both larger than life. and maybe sometimes, deep down, someone like pecco might wish that kind of thing did come naturally to him... but if he has felt that way, then he's already kinda had to work through all that. he's valentino's successor! he's the next big italian motogp star! but he's never going to be valentino. and he wouldn't want that life, it wouldn't make him happy - and probably he looks at marc with all his drama and controversy and thinks he wouldn't really want all that either. pecco's given all of this a lot of thought, and he's still probably a bit too self-conscious and a bit too aware of all of this stuff for his own good, but that does also mean he knows his own head and where he's at when it comes to his own status in the sport. both when it comes to the character and when it comes to the talent. sure, having marc's fuck you talent would be nice, everyone would want that... but also if you're a two time premier champion, at a certain point you need a certain cockiness about your own abilities. he's spoken about how he needs a more well-settled bike than casey or marc, how he can't out-perform the bike like they can - there clearly is a lot of admiration there, still the sense of respect and awe you probably can't ever quite shake. pecco won't ever be one of those aliens. but he's had enough time to establish himself in the sport before he's had to deal with the marc threat in a more active way, has had the chance to find his place without worrying too much about marc - has been able to build up his own confidence. at the same time, pecco is still very obviously aware of just who marc is and the weight of that legacy and it shapes how he approaches fighting marc. it's pecco's admiration vying with his arrogance - and he has to hope the latter wins out. you can't be fearful of the legacy of those you're trying to beat. you have to kill your heroes, even if it's a strange flavour of hero

anyhow - one big way in which valentino does loom large here is that everyone else is aware of his rivalry with marc and how it is crucial Historical Context for the pecco/marc stuff. because pecco does have that dog in him, he's fundamentally disinterested in fighting his idol's battles and is mainly just looking out for himself. a big part of the general wariness towards marc isn't even valentino-related antipathy or just respect for his abilities, but also this kind of sense of... god, this marc thing is always going to have extra implications, will there be discourse, can there please not be discourse... he doesn't want to get into this stuff, he doesn't want to be part of the sepang 2015 reenactment society. he's pretty determined to stay clear of marc-related controversy at every turn, and generally does do a good job of not letting the undoubtedly extremely annoying marc annoy him... the only time pecco had proper marc-induced head loss was mugello last year - y'know, that whole thing when he felt impeded by marc and then slowed down long enough to give marc the chance to warm up his tyres and catch a pecco tow to the front row. like that was just head gone, the kind of thing that happens when you already find someone deeply annoying and then you kinda choose the wrong moment to get mad at them. with a bit of distance pecco may well have regretted reacting that way, like you don't really want to give marc that kind of opening. he's been way more disciplined since then, but it still opened the door

fundamentally, the less time pecco spends obsessing over marc, the better for him. pecco obviously has to be very aware of marc and wary of him, but he also can't spent too much energy on admiring him or being irritated by him or anything else. (given that valentino's descriptions of the marc/pecco rivalry do seem to frame marc as a competitor who sounds an awful lot like valentino himself, ironically valentino is quite well-placed to offer the 'try to avoid letting the guy who gets off on annoying his rivals annoy you' advice.) it's always going to be tough, isn't it, competing against your heroes, figuring out how to disentangle those past emotions from how you actually approach fighting them, how to feel comfortable enough in your own skin to not be cowed by that status... you can't get to a place where you're so admiring or respectful or intimidated that you're already beaten before the competition even starts - and to his credit pecco has shown he is both willing to stand up to the famous marc marquez as well as capable of doing so. my guess is that for him, the childhood idolisation isn't primarily expressed in a 'wow he dragged the honda to pole!!' (not least when he was using pecco's teammate to directly deny pecco). sure, perhaps you do get those knee jerk reactions of admiring the sheer craft of your rival's riding, just have to do your best not to let it affect you. but for the most part it's... really wanting to beat marc. and sometimes feeling a teensy bit insecure about just how good marc is. and really wanting to beat him. he kinda has to be sensible and talk down in his brain how special this one guy is so he doesn't do anything silly, tell himself it's just any other guy... but it's still always going to be there, hovering in the background. and god does pecco really want to beat him

#pecco very much 'girl who is “going to be okay”'-ing his way into the marc teammate relationship #y'know pecco said somewhere that one of his hobbies is reading sports autobiographies #and I would love comparing notes with him on casey's. like surely it's fairly likely he's read it right?#the pecco/casey axiom is great. he does sometimes come out with stuff where I'm like. wow that's so casey-coded #when he said at assen that he really liked how the crowd was less partisan than at montmelo and mugello?? casey's daughter right there #inherited casey's surliness and valentino's inability to be fast on a friday. truly their best traits #in some ways this is the closest we'll ever get to seeing casey/marc at honda but they'd shoot u in the streets if u said that out loud #//#brr brr #batsplat responds #actually i've had the casey autobiography thought a lot but come to think of it i'd also love to chat to him about valentino's #maybe he's read agassi's!! that's got to be one of the most famous ones surely #pecco buddy would you be interested in a book club #current tag

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batsplat · 5 months ago

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favorite motogp rivalry not involving any of the aliens ?

you know, the fact that this is so tough shows just how inescapable they've been in the sport. still, I'll give it a shot

you can go several directions here - either stick to the present, or go for stuff this century that's more in the background, or go way way back. I'm reasonably fond of that eighties early nineties period and the varied rivalries they produced between all the anglos... you know, spencer, gardner, lawson, rainey, schwantz, doohan, that lot... (admittedly some haven't massively endeared themselves to me with their post-retirement punditry, but it is ever thus with athletes.) couldn't do that justice here but a few quickfire thoughts

lawson and gardner is one of those fun ones where you have two completely different blokes competing who just fundamentally Did Not Get Each Other at all. gardner was cocky, forthright, brash, whereas lawson was far more reserved, cool-headed, cerebral... and, of course, they didn't didn't just understand each other, they also didn't like each other at all. infamously gardner was not exactly thrilled when his long time rival was signed for honda (gardner's manufacturer) and gardner had to find out by reading the papers

also they shot this safety ad together and apparently didn't speak to each other the entire time, even though they were in close proximity for hours. don't you just desperately want to recreate this with certain riders, hm

anyway, of course there's also rainey and schwantz, probably the one everyone knows... as ever, important they didn't get on and hated to lose each other

all culminated in the dramatic 1993 season, with schwantz determined that it would finally be his year... and it's a classic season, one hears (even if one is unable to judge for oneself), but a title fight with a sad twist when a collision between the two of them at misano ends rainey's career while handing schwantz his only 500cc title. in the end, it also ended schwantz's career, who retired at the end of 1994. of course dorna promised they'd never go to misano again, which they stuck to for a full fourteen years

then again, arguably the vibes were a bit too good back then between riders, like what's all this then (from schwantz)

actually, I suppose none of those were technically 'motogp' rivalries, but. same difference. there's a few in the years after... I do find the whole 1998 250cc season deeply compelling, but it also would feel like cheating because what makes the harada/capirossi thing so fun is that valentino is there acting as the third man. very much the dynamics between all three of them that are so great. plenty of spats in the years after that, but something like dovi/iannone is more just good fun than a proper 'rivalry'. you do generally need some proper development for a real rivalry, and the aliens just monopolise so much attention this century. so you do basically have to fast forward to... well, the last few years, where the most notable ones have been pecco/fabio and pecco/jorge martin

now I do like pecco/fabio conceptually - it's interesting to have this rivalry between two guys who were being moulded into being the marc challengers by their respective manufacturers and then to have had marc suddenly disappear on them. the way it suddenly thrust fabio into the spotlight, how it put all these expectations and pressures on him and essentially made him title favourite overnight... vs how pecco is the closest motogp has had to a dominant force in the post prime!marc era and is constantly uneasily grappling with that legacy. you've got all this uncertainty and insecurity and asterisks and the shadow cast by the greats (who haven't even had the decency to go away completely), the weight of those legacies... also, two kinda funny title fights, if odd ones (especially '22 lol). main problem is that their wildly contrasting fortunes whenever they were title rivals mean they've managed to avoid actually fighting each other on-track. insanely frustrating and the real asterisk for this rivalry

pecco/martin has been strong stuff, yeah. super contrasting personalities, such visibly different riding styles, and considerably more material when it comes to on-track battles than pecco/fabio (still more work to be done though). that intra-manufacturer arc has been fun to follow, this stand-off between ducati's golden boy and the challenger with the eternal underdog mindset. both have a tendency to feel like the world's against them (which is a trait many riders share, sports is such a wonderful breeding ground for victimisation complexes), both are so incredibly unreliable. both rather volatile in their own ways, both battling their own insecurities. also, it doesn't hurt that they've got a bit of shared history as teammates back in the day. would've been interesting to see them as teammates in motogp, curious how jorge reacts to this latest twist... the needle between them has been fun, especially the silly valencia stuff, though I wouldn't mind some more openly hostilities between the pair of them - and I do feel like marc's reemergence has inevitably ensured the two of them are paying less attention to each other. even martin's grand big fuck ducati thing is now more about being rejected in favour of marc than about pecco getting preferential treatment. still, they've got time, could give us plenty more to work with

which is my favourite of those? I don't know... the tricky thing about the older rivalries is that I believe very strongly in evaluating rivalries by actually watching their competitive output and there's only so much of them I can watch. I guess by process of elimination it's currently pecco/martin? for a hot second there I suppose pecco/bez looked like it could be quite interesting, but they didn't really fight for the title and remained friendly so. whatever. it'd be nice if everyone else picked up the slack some time soon

#i do think the aliens and in particular valentino have set the bar extremely high as far as rivalries go #and my basic stance is it's okay if we never get back to those heights. i mean those were so fucking good u can't be greedy #they invented a guy who cooked up five completely distinct and independently fascinating feuds like?? crazy effort #makes you reevaluate pretty much every other sport makes you think about how much everyone else has been slacking #the new stuff you just have to play by ear and try to enjoy what you get... ofc if anybody wants to go back to the good old days #i'm certainly not gonna complain. but for various reasons i doubt we'll get something quite that good again lol #marc still owes me something kinda nasty i reckon but u should always be ready for disappointment #brr brr #motogp #//#batsplat responds

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