#MICHAILOV IS THE ONE WHO KILLS HIM

[selfdiagnosedeyemotif]

and i do want to add (and forgive me if im wrong about this one, havent watched the movie in a while) that ice pick joe, the guy that KILLS PEOPLE WITH A TOOL USED FOR BREAKING ICE, does not kill a SINGLE russian in the movie; his only victim, Amarro Fiamberti, was an italian, and several of the other characters he's mentioned to have killed were also italian. it's a bit of an on-the-nose metaphor but i always thought it was a nice touch

why did you people come up with russian names for what is supposed to be a movie set in italy. what was the thought process here. why does she sound like she walked out of a tolstoy novel

[icanthocusfocus]

Chapter 9 of my Gonachrov Fic

A Summer’s Fruits

It is a brisk night, nippy even. Joe can feel the breeze against his nose, and it makes him shiver. He grips his ice pick within his coat. “You know, Joseph sometimes I think you’re smarter than you let on.”

”Then you must think me some kind of genius!”

”I do, in fact.”

They keep walking.

“Hey Val,”

”Yes Joseph?”

”Did’ya really mean that genius spiel? I never even finished school.” Joe itches his head with that same old pick. It’s never even rusted. He cleans it too often.

”Yeah, Joe, I did.” Valery slows, “By my figuring, you have to be. How did you know?”

”Know what?”

The view really is stellar here. Joe could imagine himself growing up here. If he’d been a child in Naples, everything would’ve been easier. Valery follows his gaze.

”It’s a nice view. A good last sight.”

”I wish I’d been born in Naples. I wouldn’t have been ice pick Joe, then. I’d just be… a Morelli brother.”

Val grips his shoulder, continuing to stare at the horizon. “How did you know where she’d be that night?” He turns to Joe, grabs his other shoulder, and pulls the man close. “How the fuck did you know!” Spit flies onto his cheeks, dripping down Joe’s face like tears.

“Buzz off, Val. Im thinking!” Still, he doesn’t move. Doesn’t even resist when his head is pulled back.

”Was it Andrey?” The question is quieter than the accusations.

“…Na, it wasn’t Andrey. You wanna know how I found her?” He gets louder, “I didn’t even have to look. She wanted me Michailov! Thought we’d run off.”

He’s kneeling now, laughing too. Val’s first punch makes him shake and sway. The kick leaves him on the ground. He holds himself up with shaking arms. “She was a real good time, Ol’ Luce. Wish I’d kept her around a bit longer, but she swam so pretty!”

”I’ll kill you! I’ll fucking kill you!”

It’s true. Joe was never going to make it home that night.

“Fucking do it, but for God’s sake, stop whining.”

He closes his eyes when his head is placed up against the curb. He screams when Valery peels off his nails and places them in a neat pile. He cries when he takes the rest of one finger, and that sits besides the nails. He vomits at the site of bone, something he’s seen so often before. He giggles, just a bit, when he imagines his brain spread out on the pavement.

Valery pauses, hands quivering, and lights up a cigarette. The red end is like a beacon in the night. He leaves wet red streaks on his lighter. Joe wails when he reaches into his pocket and the fabric scrapes his naked nails beds. He clenches his fingers around his ice pick, sobs as he pulls it out. Val doesn’t notice. Doesn’t stop smoking. He can see the tears that meet the corner of his mouth. That turn the cigarette paper gray and damp. Val’s eyes, he knows, are blurry. He holds up the ice pick until he blinks away his tears.

Joseph Morelli is on his knees, one arm hanging loose to his side. In a world where he survived, his shoulder would never have been the same. Neither would his broken smile. He looks like a whole new man. His working arm is holding out the handle of his ice pick to the man that will kill him. His pockets are empty. He played all his cards just to survive past 20.

“You’re pathetic.”

He tries to nod. He tries to smile too, and he can feel it distort his broken features. His smashed nose shifts. His split lip spreads. He’s choking on the blood.

Val nods. Grabs it from his hands and shoves him over. Maybe, Joe thinks, he will reach that place inside that has always been broken. That spot no one else could ever reach. Perhaps this time the ice pick would finally do its job.

He does not float. Michailov makes sure he does not float.

A/N

I know the audio cut out at Goncharov’s line about Ice Pick Joe, but I’ve always heard it as ‘Anyone he wanted to’ rather than ‘anyone WHO wanted to’. Until Mr Scorsese says otherwise, I’ll be sticking by that interpretation.

Prev

[tsscat]

GET GONCHED

[yardsards]

tired of everyone on here reducing icepick joe down to haha funny stabby man

like i DO like the jokes and memes, don't get me wrong, but like

there's SO MUCH to his character and he really does tie into goncharov's main themes

like. we're told early on the he was put into a mental institution as a young man due to his breakdown and inconsolable grief at losing his older brother giorno (who was his only living family and basically a father figure to him!)

wherein he was mistreated and was HEAVILY IMPLIED to be scheduled for a lobotomy before he escaped. (in fact, some interpretations say he actually received and survived the lobotomy, citing his manner of speaking and his lack of impulse control. but that's a whole separate discussion because i can honestly see both sides)

and then he turns to a life of crime because that's basically the only option he had left, after being deprived of so many opportunities in his youth (and the fear of being caught and involuntarily institutionalized again)

and him eventually leaning into the role of "violent madman" that the world thrust onto him for showing signs of mental illness in a way that was nonviolent, but was loud and inconvenient and impossible for those around him to simply push away.

and him taking his rage out at the same world that not only killed his brother but forced him to undergo years of psychiatric abuse and basically dehumanization

(like seriously, how do SO MANY people miss the connection between him using an icepick as a weapon and the concept of an ICEPICK lobotomy)

which. yknow. ties heavily into the film's theme of people being pushed to society's margins and forced into a life of crime, instead of given the help they desperately needed

and then like.

his fucking death scene. he tries to put a stop to the cycle of senseless violence, taking the fall for andrey, telling michailov that *he* was the one who killed luciana

him kneeling down and allowing michailov to bash him through the skull with his very own icepick. it's more lobotomy symbolism; dying from the very thing he spent his whole life running from. further driving home the film's themes of repeating cycles and futility

and then, to drive it all home, that sacrifice didn't even end up stopping the cycle of violence! because andrey viewed joe as basically an older brother (mirroring joe and giorno) and tried to get revenge on michailov for killing joe.

like. come on.

[invaderlynx]

Man, am I glad you asked. Honest warning, I haven’t seen it since my rewatch back in November so I might be a bit fuzzy on the finer details. 

The general plot line is that Goncharov and Andrei Daddano (sometimes spelled Andrey) are Russian mobsters that came over to Naples years ago. Through a somewhat convoluted series of short jobs, Goncharov makes the acquaintance of Katya, a fellow Russian expatriate who has ties to two rivals of his, Valery Michailov and the Don Domenico Lombardi. Goncharov and Katya fall passionately (and somewhat violently) in love, much to the chagrin of Andrei and Sofia. Sofia is Katya’s best friend and in the employ of Lombardi (this will be important later). While the story never outright claims that Andrei and Sofia are in love with Goncharov and Katya respectively, it is heavily implied, and many fans choose to interpret their objections to the relationship that way. Their romantic entanglement leads Goncharov to make multiple mistakes in his leadership of the mob which in turn alienates both his hired muscle, Joe “Ice Pick” Morelli (known as Ice Pick Joe in the fandom), and Andrei himself. The final straw for Joe is when he is ordered to kill a former member of their gang who went rogue, Gil McGilicuddy. In his final moments, Gil reminds Joe that Goncharov never cared about either of them as anything more than “meat”. This triggers a mental breakdown in the already unstable Joe which ultimately culminates in him trying to kill Goncharov. Andrei shoots Joe before this can happen, but is wracked with grief and guilt because of it. It is implied that he viewed Joe as something of a younger brother and this event is another wedge between him and Goncharov. Things are getting worse for Katya as well. Her relationship with Goncharov has strained her ties with both Michailov and Lombardi. In addition, her and Sofia have also been drifting apart, a separation that culminates in Sofia refusing to go with her to a soirée held by Michailov in honor of the peace brokered between him and Goncharov. At the soirée, Goncharov proposes to Katya and the two are later wed (Andrei is the best man in a scene that can only be described as heart wrenching). As I mentioned before, Andrei has been becoming more and more disenchanted with Goncharov’s leadership. The final straw is when he finds Katya’s ink-stained glove on Goncharov’s desk and realized that the two of them had been having sex in his office. He feels betrayed because Goncharov has always been one to separate his work from his personal life and this is a complete repudiation of that policy. Katya has begun to take precedence over his work. Andrei confronts him over a game of poker in a very deftly written scene and by the end, Goncharov has won the game but he has lost Andrei. One of the other players, an old “friend” of Goncharov’s named Mario Ambrosini, picks up on the tension between the two of them and relays it to his boss, Lombardi. Lombardi then sends Mario to recruit Andrei in a plot to kill Goncharov. Sofia overhears a portion of these plans (but not the name of the prospective assassin) and debates on whether to tell Katya. If she says nothing, she could be rid of Goncharov forever, but her dear friend’s happiness would be shattered. In the end she does tell Katya but Katya explains that he likely won’t listen to her. Ever since he concluded the peace with Michailov, Goncharov has been getting increasingly bold and overconfident in his own security. Sofia then suggests that the two of them run away together and that Katya leave behind this dangerous life and start new with her. Katya agrees and they plan to meet that evening to take a ferry out of Naples. However, Katya does not keep her promise and decides to try and warn Goncharov, leaving Sofia waiting on the pier. In the meantime, Mario has successfully recruited Andrei. Andrei makes his way to Goncharov’s office and confronts him, but when faced with his old friend (who does nothing to resist) he is unable to harm him. Things seem to be calming down when Katya arrives. She sees Andrei with his gun still drawn and shoots him. He dies in Goncharov’s arms. Goncharov, irate, turns on her and might be going for his own weapon (this is unclear, people have been arguing since 1973 on whether he intended to shoot Katya or not). She shoots him as well, splattering her white dress and boa with blood. The final scene is her at the pier in her bloodstained garments, smoking. Sofia is long gone, as is any hope of her returning to her old life. In her hand, she has Andrei’s cracked pocket watch and the camera slowly zooms in on it while the ticking gets louder.

so I know the goncharov thing has been happening for a while but could someone explain the plotline? I'm too lazy to watch it right now but I'm super curious

[bowloftaurussoup]

The Lost Women of Goncharov

Listen i love Katya and Sofia as well as anyone, but can we talk about Luciana and Mariella for a minute? The Lost Women of Goncharov. They exist solely as plot devices to further the downward spiral between Andrey and Goncharov and yet haunt the whole script....without Luciana almost none of the action in the film would take place, she is fundamental, yet we know nothing about her. Not a single picture or relic. She’s not even credited with a surname despite the plot importance of her being Mario Ambrosini’s wife....And Mariella. She only ever exists in the background, is dead by the end of the second act, but her relationship with Mario (which is shown only through implications: her pouring his drink for him at the poker game, the way they are always looking at one another in the few scenes they are in, despite never sharing a word) underscores the entire falling apart of the wider male unit of characters. 

Between them, these two women represent an antithesis to the central theme of the story. Goncharov, both the character and the film, are obsessed with time and how little of it we have - how the clock strikes for everyone, and once your time is up, it's up - and yet Luciana and Mariella represent the fact that time does in fact go on. Luciana dies, is a faded echo of a memory, and still permeates the motivations of the living characters. They kill for her, they die for her, her name is repeated and repeated and repeated. Andrey and Goncharov and Ice Pick Joe and Valery Michailov are caught up in their own maddening little torture spiral, becoming less and less aware of the rest of the world, but the rest of the world goes on. Mariella and Mario have an affair or a friendship or a something, almost ignorant of the danger they are in, simply because of this fact: The World Goes On. And yes, obviously, you could just say they’re weakly written female characters who got fridged to further male character development because of misogyny in the film-making industry in the seventies....but I just think that they’re actually very subversive characters and that’s a fact worth recognising

[cowboywithfangs]

Muppet Goncharov Fancast

I know they only really do Muppet remakes with public domain stories but with all the copyright disputes I'm certain Disney could squeeze it.

I think you guessed this one but it must be said:

Kermit as Goncharov

This one's not just based on Kermit being "the main guy", I think his personality meshes really well with the inexpressive but nonetheless emotion-driven Goncharov. Softer spoken than the rest but not soft, he can and will lay down the hammer.

Token Human

Okay next let's decide who should be our token human character. Personally, my vote is for Katya.

Amanda Seyfried as Katya Goncharova

I know a lot of you were expecting Piggy here but hear me out. Casting Katya as a non-Muppet could really emphasize the theme of her alienation from both Russia and Italy and also I think it'd be funny if someone had to crouch down to Muppet-height to do the iconic cigarette scene.

I think Seyfried is great in this role because she's done fantastic work portraying complex and tragic female characters in the past but also can keep it fun for a Muppet-y version of Katya.

Now on to the rest of the Muppets...

Gonzo as Andrey Dodano

Andrey's quiet concern for Goncharov and fear of the inevitable end to their story screams Gonzo to me. The existentialism. He has a sadness in his eyes that [gunshots] Also Gonzo's not-quite-failure stunt performer career is very similar to Andrey's mob career. They both put themselves in a lot of danger for little appreciation in their respective worlds.

Piggy as Sofia

She can do the drama of a love triangle justice like no other! She can be flashy AND mysterious. Demure AND suave. Plus I think this would really bring to the front the performative femininity of Sofia's character and especially how she not only utilizes that performance but enjoys it as well.

Rowlf as Mario Ambrosini

Mario is loyal to his mob family to a fault and Rowlf, as a dog, could really channel that unconditional devotion. Also the scene where Dasha the cat passes in front of Mario, in addition to the symbolism already there, would have a whole new meaning if Mario was portrayed by a dog.

Sweetums as Valery Michailov

It feels wrong casting any Muppet as Valery cause he's just such a mean spirited guy. I'm largely going with Sweetums because I was scared of him as kid, but also because I think he's the perfect guy to pull off the last minute secretly has a heart but now its too late thing. The hug goodbye that you can't tell if it's genuine or manipulative. I think Sweetums could really embody that ambiguity.

Fozzie Bear as Ice Pick Joe

Ice Pick Joe would be a perfect comic relief role for Fozzie in a Muppet adaptation of Goncharov. Imagine for a second Fozzie doing the nickname monologue but as a stand-up comedy bit. Are you imaging it? "It was ice knowing ya!" (laughter ensues) etc.

And here's some more fun minor roles:

Lew Zealand as the gondolier

This is mostly about the fish stuff. Will it ruin the gondola moment to have a Muppet interrupt and point out the fish symbolism? Absolutely. Will it be funny when he gets slapped in the face by his own boomerang fish? Absolutely.

Scooter as the fruit vendor

Okay maybe this is mean to say but the actor in the original does look a lot like Scooter to me already. Also Scooter gives the vibes of being surprisingly cool with open homoeroticism. The antithesis of right in front of my salad if you would.

Statler and Waldorf as the assassin(s)

I know in the original Andrey just hires one assassin but he had such catty energy I think this adaptation there should be two and they could properly bitch amongst themselves as they kill (or fail to kill) their target. And who better for that? What is a theater booth if not a sniper's nest for hurling insults?

Rizzo the Rat as Dasha the Cat

Animal as the clock tower keeper

Because bells are loud and Animal is loud. But seriously imagine the hilarity of the "even i can't stop the clock" bit but instead of the melancholic portrayal of the original, the manic energy of Animal.

In conclusion: Disney hire me

That's all I've got for now, I would LOVE to hear if anyone has additional ideas for other cast members (I think there's a TON of potential for using Sam the Eagle as part of the critique of America-centric thinking in the original but I don't know as who!) or alternate castings!

[aroaceofthesea]

I posted 7,695 times in 2022

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I tagged 761 of my posts in 2022

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Longest Tag: 139 characters

#reading a post thinking bout some1 nd then baam its bout that 1 character whose personalty you only know thru textposts nd has the same nam

My Top Posts in 2022:

#5

What the fuck is going on over there wtf

256 notes - Posted November 22, 2022

#4

Tips to, you know, not die in your sleep when being attacked by a vampire:

Use a garlic flower wreath to keep the vampire away

Idk maybe NOT COMPARE YOURSELF TO OPHELIA who died with a lot of flowers over her

Maybe (just maybe) don't ignore the flapping just outside the window like what the One Person Who Seems To Know What Is Going On has mentioned specifically

Don't sign off with a fckin 'Goodnight everyone' in your diary this is literally How To Die Tonight 101 even if you're not being attacked by a vampire

(please don't take out your flower wreath while sleepwalking tonight lucy)

299 notes - Posted September 12, 2022

#3

I saw something a couple days ago about wanting more aro content so here i am to deliver

398 notes - Posted September 29, 2022

#2

They're a 10 but im aroace so i don't really care

1,477 notes - Posted July 2, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

Haven't seen goncharov (1973) yet? In that case go watch it RIGHT NOW, but if you don't have the time for a 3h 32mins film (which is understandable but you have to make the time at some point) and you want to understand the memes I have you covered. (Keep in mind that there are gonna be important spoilers in this post)

Important characters:

Goncharov

Katya Michailov - Goncharov's wife

Andrey - Goncharov's lover (or almost)

Sofia - Katya's lover

Minor characters

Mario Ambrosini

Ice pick Joe

Valery Michailov - Katya's brother

Important scenes

The Boat Scene: a scene in which Katya almost dies.

Beer Bottle Scene: an infamous scene in the movie

Anchovy scene: a scene with heavy homoerotic subtext between Goncharov and Andrey

Dressing for dinner scene: a scene where Katya and Andrey are shown dressing up with cuts that give each of the things they wear the same importance as survival items, from Katya's high heels to Andrey's dagger

Bridge scene: goodbye scene between Katya and Goncharov. Beautifully made as you can see Katya second guessing her choice to betray him but she's too far in to turn back

Fruit stand scene: a heavily homoerotic conversation between Katya and Sofia while they are buying apples

Important plot points

Katya betrays Goncharov

Andrey betrays him too for money

Goncharov has betrayed Katya's family too, and Andrey is a living reminder of that

Goncharov is shot at the end, resulting in his death

Katya fakes her death at one point

Katya's father is killed at the beginning of the movie and she feels responsible for it for almost the entire movie, until she finally accepts that there was nothing more she could have done to save him, only to die alone in the boathouse

Even though Katya loves Goncharov, when she has to choose between him and Sofia, she chooses Sofia

There is a love triangle between Goncharov, Andrey and Katya too

Other important things

The clock symbolism is just so important in this film it deserved to be here

18,304 notes - Posted November 20, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

[project-catgirlpillar]

Ok kinda a rough summary of Most of the stuff i've found more or less consistent, obviously all of it's debatable cause everyone has their own ideas of what happened.

So the movie follows goncharov (First Name unknown), who is a Former russian Mob Boss who, for whatever reason has to flee russia, moving to naples. He Takes His wife katya, her Brother Valery michailov, His Banker and Long time friend Andrey, as Well as His right Hand man Joseph "Ice Pick Joe" morelli with him. Andrey Always carries a Pocket watch and Ice Pick Joe at least Claims to want to leave His Violent life behind

In naples He tries to establish a new Crime Empire to replace the one He had to give Up when fleeing russia, obviously Meeting resistance from the already locally established Mafia, possibly Run by Mario ambrosini and with Sofia as a possible member, i'm honestly Not entirely clear on that one.

I think Goncharov and katya do Love each other, but due to goncharov's Obsession with His Work, their relationship Grows increasingly strained. Katya also befriends Sofia and they have lesbian Subtext. At some Point katya almost dies in a boathouse, but Manages to save Herself through some improbable means. There is also a confrontation on a Bridge somewhere During which katya almost shoots goncharov, though she deliberately misses. Goncharov Takes the fact she didn't kill him as Proof she doesn't Love him

The Main Antagonist is technically Mario ambrosini, though He dies way before the end

In the end someone Kills icepick Joe, possibly katya and possibly only after He tries to kill goncharov. Katya ends Up betraying goncharov to Sofia somehow, possibly dying in the process, possibly faking her death. Andrey ends Up Killing goncharov and their Last Moments are very homoerotic. I think Goncharov accepts His fate

There is also a poker Scene in which characters foreshadow their ultimate fates and probably also throw veiled threats at each other. There's a very famous Anchovi Scene where god knows what Happens, possibly negotiations between the Mob families. There is also a fruit cart Scene either between gonch and Andrey or katya and Sofia and it is very gay.

There is very heavy clock symbolism, showing the way the characters are constantly running Out of time. There is also a fish Motive though i don't really know whats going on with that and i think some religious symbolism.

One Major theme is that Most of the characters were doomed from the start, Most likely due to some personality flaws they had. It's also the Story of goncharov's downfall, both in the Sense that it ends in His death, and also that it's a corruption Arc. The goncharov at the end of the movie is unrecognizable even to himself, and a Lot of people call it a "tragedy of unbecoming"

Fuck it if someone gives me a rough plot and character outline to Goncharov I'll try to write it as a stage play

[gunmeister]

1973 mafia (it SHOULD be the CAMORRA) movie by martin scorsese set in naples, nobody can actually agree on the lore which is part of its charm but the important members of the plot are;

la straniero/goncharov ( main guy, i think the creator of the poster intended him to be a lone wolf noir type but popular consensus is hes like the mob boss of this movie ) 

katya ( married to goncharov but it’s one-sided, and despite loving him she betrays him and chooses sofia in the end, ultimate morally grey sexy woman, the best character )

sofia ( katya’s Not Technically Love Interest tm, i don’t really know as much about her her characterization varies, shes like lower in status than everyone else )

andrey “the banker” daddano ( homoerotic subtext with goncharov is OFF THE CHARTS, theyre depicted as both friends and enemies and i think andrey betrays him despite the homoerotic subtext or maybe because of it idk )

mario ambrosini ( like a friend of goncharov’s, whether he works for goncharov or not they’re chillin but people have also decided he betrays goncharov i think? )

joseph “ice pick joe” morelli ( mob-aligned killer, in the lore of the original poster he worked for andrey but i think more people portray him as being a subordinate of goncharov’s who is then betrayed by either goncharov or katya or Fuckin One Of Them. he dies basically. he’s MY favorite though. )

valery michailov ( katya’s brother who like absolutely no one talks about despite him having been in the poster, he like hates goncharov or something. i think he just has beef with everyone all the time )

there’s also a LOT of clock symbolism (this is important) and like notable scenes. katya almost dies in the boat scene. the anchovies scene is like full of homoerotic subtext. katya and sofia talk about apples and pomegranates as a forbidden fruit metaphor. katya and goncharov stand on a bridge at one point and katya also threatens goncharov with a gun (possibly also on the bridge). SOMEONE kills goncharov but nobody can decide on who. literally everyone except ice pick joe betrays him at some point. idk that’s all i know about it.

My goncharov mutuals, would you care to explain/loredump 🥺🥺🥺i feel like a fake fan otherwise.

[goncharovanon]

In a metaphorical sense, however, Joe does see himself as Luciana's killer. He invited her to get a boat away with him; she accepted, and on the way, she died! In trying to leave, trying to let someone leave, Luciana herself died, and I think Joe didn't forgive himself for that.

So Joe's attempted leaving really happened much sooner, and it failed, itself sparking the cycle once again. So Joe sees leaving as inflaming. If you submit to the cycle, only then might you be able to be free. (Which is obviously nonsense.)

This is reinforced through the scheduling of the lobotomy. Joe quietly and elegantly explained why he shouldn't be here, why none of them should be in this asylum, and in response, he's marked for a lobotomy.

Valery and Michailov, too, are disassociated from each other, also, in everybody's mind. Valery is proto-Andrey; Michailov is the man who really exists. Katya is the only one to reconcile Valery and Michailov- it's intimate Valery acting the way Michailov would that ties it together.

So I think that Andrey didn't necessarily attempt revenge on Michailov for being Joe's killer. Instead, it's for almost breaking the idea of Valery as Valery, Andrey. If Valery is violent, then Andrey is violent, too, and Andrey can't allow himself to acknowledge his worse side.

The attempted revenge on Michailov is almost a mercy-killing in Andrey's mind (and was further undergone by Andrey in an altered state of mind- while he was drugged and lied to.)

tired of everyone on here reducing icepick joe down to haha funny stabby man

like i DO like the jokes and memes, don't get me wrong, but like

there's SO MUCH to his character and he really does tie into goncharov's main themes

like. we're told early on the he was put into a mental institution as a young man due to his breakdown and inconsolable grief at losing his older brother giorno (who was his only living family and basically a father figure to him!)

wherein he was mistreated and was HEAVILY IMPLIED to be scheduled for a lobotomy before he escaped. (in fact, some interpretations say he actually received and survived the lobotomy, citing his manner of speaking and his lack of impulse control. but that's a whole separate discussion because i can honestly see both sides)

and then he turns to a life of crime because that's basically the only option he had left, after being deprived of so many opportunities in his youth (and the fear of being caught and involuntarily institutionalized again)

and him eventually leaning into the role of "violent madman" that the world thrust onto him for showing signs of nental illness in a way that was nonviolent, but was loud and inconvenient and impossible for those around him to simply push away.

and him taking his rage out at the same world that not only killed his brother but forced him to undergo years of psychiatric abuse and basically dehumanization

(like seriously, how do SO MANY people miss the connection between him using an icepick as a weapon and the concept of an ICEPICK lobotomy)

which. yknow. ties heavily into the film's theme of people being pushed to society's margins and forced into a life of crime, instead of given the help they desperately needed

and then like.

his fucking death scene. he tries to put a stop to the cycle of senseless violence, taking the fall for andrey, telling michailov that *he* was the one who killed luciana

him kneeling down and allowing michailov to bash him through the skull with his very own icepick. it's more lobotomy symbolism; dying from the very thing he spent his whole life running from. further driving home the film's themes of repeating cycles and futility

and then, to drive it all home, that sacrifice didn't even end up stopping the cycle of violence! because andrey viewed joe as basically an older brother (mirroring joe and giorno) and tried to get revenge on michailov for killing joe.

like. come on.