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crimeronan · 6 months ago

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Camila horror thoughts. In the horrifically fraught family horrors sense of the term.

What if Vee has specifically warned Camila about Hunter, told her all about what he specifically has done in order to give her a heads up, in a way naturally coloured by the views she has (not unreasonably) built up around Hunter because of all the stuff she's done.

So naturally she's got this wariness of Hunter that does not compute when she sees how genuinely caring he is with Luz even if logically she knows people can act remarkably differently in different contexts and none of it negates all the stuff he did with The Basilisks for Belos. But Camila is still pretty sure that Luz doesn't know, and is terrified that if she knew it might destroy something that she is desperately reliant on, her relationship with Hunter. It probably wouldn't, Luz could probably live with that since well horrible nightmare trauma soulmates and by Luz's standards she's done just as bad in a similar context but Camila and Luz keeping secrets for almost the exact same reason (to protect the people they love from horrors they are too insane to be affected by) appeals to me.

But the problem now arises, Camila's told Luz that she has adopted another kid, and Luz in the spirit of trying her best to reach out does want to see Vee or have her visit with Camila next time she comes or something like that since like, thats a normal thing to do on reconnecting with your estranged mother and finding out you have an adopted sister you've never met.

Vee, bless is not going along with that "don't tell Luz how horrible Hunter is since she is hopelessly codependent on him" bullshit at all. Camila knows that, Vee knows that. Camila knows she cannot ethically or reasonably expect Vee to not spill all of Hunter's darkest secrets to Luz in an attempt to ruin his life since, y'know all the stuff he did to her specifically.

For Vee the nicest most compromise-y thing she can do, is just never meet Luz face to face, and thats only because of her respect for Camila. But there's no way Luz isn't going to to notice or be concerned about this so there's this constant ticking time bomb of "when am i gonna meet Vee' since "oh she's off at college" isn't gonna work forever.

god this is all so good. i've been thinking about it since you sent this ask a few hours ago now. bc like. god. there's So Much....

i think you're 100% right that vee would try to stay out of things. she's like mama respectfully i'm ready to meet her IF i'm allowed to scream a lot of pent-up utterly unhinged bullshit but otherwise i think it's best for me not to be involved.

and camila is SUCH a bad liar. if she tried to say that things were fine with vee, luz would clock that something was wrong immediately. she obviously wouldn't jump to "she's from the isles" when there are so many more obvious conclusions -- maybe vee is jealous of luz for being the first daughter camila loved, maybe she's angry at luz for running away, maybe she's sick of luz monopolizing camila's time now when vee is used to having their mom all to herself....

regardless of what luz thinks is most likely, she's definitely like. Ah. I Am Driving A Wedge Between Them. This Is My Fault. On A Personal Level. Somehow.

and then on camila's end, that's even true to a point.... bc vee is getting increasingly more upset by the idea of protecting luz's feelings. i can absolutely see a very tired vee finally having the stress get to her & snapping, "why do you think she'll CARE?? she isn't going to care. even if she's as nice a person as you think she is, it's not like i'm a human or a witch. i'm nothing. she doesn't know how to care about people like me"

...there is, of course, a delicious and vicious irony in that. like. luz Very Much Does Know how to care about someone who isn't a witch or a human.

Oh God.

and then whenever luz meets vee, when it all finally Does come out.... i feel like it would sort of be worse for vee than anything she'd actually braced for. because luz DOES immediately care, she does act like it matters, she immediately wants to know everything and fix everything and make it all better, she immediately takes on all of the responsibility for everything the empire's ever done, she's so sorry, she didn't know, she would have done something, she can do something now--

--and vee is like well. HE knew. and he sure didn't want to help me!! even though i asked him to!! even though he KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING TO ME THE ENTIRE TIME

hunter has wisely remained quiet because he doesn't think he can really defend himself here. and luz has this moment of uncertainty and confusion, and then she looks at hunter's face, and for a second vee thinks that he's just going to straight-up deny it, but he doesn't. and luz seems to understand that it's all true.

and she doesn't look angry. or even betrayed.

and then she's trying to tell vee that hunter was always in danger when they were growing up, that there must have been extenuating circumstances that made rescue impossible, that he would have helped her if he could, that luz KNOWS he would have because he wouldn't just leave vee to suffer for no reason, that's not the kind of person he is,

and hunter is the one to be like luz. stop. she doesn't need to hear that right now. she can hate me. it's fine.

so vee's opinions on luz are like. 1) i hate that you're so nice that i look insane for being angry with you 2) you're a spineless coward who can't hold anyone accountable 3) you've fooled camila into thinking you're some helpless delicate flower by pretending to be sad when you DON'T care 4) if hunter is going to agree with me about anything then i should legally get to shoot him. just like once. i've never touched a gun or had any inclination to do so before today But I Should Get To Shoot Him .

camila's role in mediating this has mainly been to gently steer the conversation into more productive territory when it looks like it might devolve into panic attacks or violence from anyone involved. she's so fucking stressed by trying to keep things from coming to blows that there's like. no Way that she could do a professional-level job of Family Therapy Mediator.

god.

much 2 consider.

#MESSYYYY.#havent reread this but hopefully it is coherent. vibes.#replies #toh #princess luz au #camila noceda #vee noceda #luz noceda #hunter toh #horrible mindscape trauma pals #long post

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batsplat · 10 days ago

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have you ever done a ranking of your fav vale podium celebrations (or celebrations in general)? Would love to hear your thoughts <3

I love ranking dumb things so I HAVE done this, years ago actually, but I've not posted it on here! going over my list and I stand by the order with two minor alterations. I won't just limit my picks to podium celebrations but WILL exclude all his title-winning celebrations, because that feels like its own thing. so here goes

next off list *deep breath*: first win, brno '96 (so thrilled he almost rode into the wall, bless); playing the violin, donington '05 (just slaps idk man); bowling, jerez '07 (cute but also kinda funny in hindsight given how the rest of the season played out); hazing your baby teammate, catalunya '09 (like it's not even anything specific it's just SO hammy); superman, assen '97 (jorge martinez saw that shit and was like ENOUGH I need to retire NOW); bike medical check, catalunya '04 (endearingly corny and quietly ominous); 46 yamaha wins, sepang 2010 (delightfully stupid dick measuring contest with jorge); serving the champagne, brno '05 (it's silly and it's sweet, especially uccio correcting valentino's tea towel placement); beachwear, mugello '98 (this one HURT to leave out, not least because of the poor veteran valentino was upstaging)

and here's my actual top ten:

10. empty grandstands, andalusia 2020

idk this one's just so quintessentially valentino to me; I'm glad he had something fun like this for his very last podium. he parks the bike on the side of the track, gets up on... whatever you call those things, barriers? and then he wildly gesticulates in celebration at an entirely empty grandstand at the height of the pandemic as if he's being serenaded by fans. I like that it was at jerez too, feels like a full circle moment for a celebration featured later on the list - one that's also about like... subverting expectations in 'communicating' with the 'crowd'. it's just so FUN, the vibes were incredibly off back then (to put it mildly) but he did his thing and it did low key cheer me up at the time. which is the classic valentino magic, isn't it

9. tricked them all, welkom 2004

another one of the simpler, more spontaneous celebrations - valentino stopping at the side of the track after winning his first ever race with yamaha. he kisses the bike, he briefly sits down and buries his head in his hands. the commentary thinks he is crying, overcome by the magnitude of what he achieved - but in his autobiography he says he was laughing (x)

“So I was right!” I thought to myself. “I can’t believe it, I tricked them all, what a show!” I kept repeating.

it's just such a pivotal valentino moment... and in its own way, it's a very memorable celebration. an intimate *cough* moment with the bike, a genuine outpouring of emotion from a man who had won pretty much everything there was to win the last few years... but was now attempting to achieve something almost nobody thought he'd be capable of. he WAS right, he DID trick them all - and he certainly put on a show

8. robin hood, donington 1998

listen. I'm a lesbian. this gets as high up the list as it does on sheer concentrated power of lesbianism. I don't even have a lot to say about this one, I just think it's neat how he was winning everything and also winning everyone over while swanning around like THAT. valentino charmed his way into the hearts of the british to such an extent that they would terrorise anyone who looked at him wrong for the next decade plus, and it all started with some remarkably dyke-coded behaviour. look at him with his cap and his bow and his arrow. no wonder he had them all eating out of his hand

7. chicken, catalunya 1998

redefined commitment to the bit. everything about his whole 'inventing a fake sponsor to fuck with the press' saga is obviously just. excellent. all the comedy hijinks where they're getting someone to act as osvaldo and trying to continue stringing the sceptical press along... something about how he managed to still treat the whole thing as a game, still had fun with his friends, didn't take himself too seriously. obviously this celebration is a culmination of sorts of that whole ploy - valentino riding around with his imaginary chicken sponsor to the delight of the crowds. I'm always a fan of a recurring bit, so I also like the continued chicken-themed celebrations over the years. let him be a silly little guy y'know

6. speeding ticket, mugello 2002

this one is just pure camp. what can you even say. like it's such an annoying lame bit that crosses the line again to be incredibly funny, classic valentino style. this race set off valentino's mugello streak after he'd crashed out of his home race in 2001... also low key the speeding ticket was a good idea, given it kept valentino away from a rather dangerous track invasion where one rider was dragged off his bike. so he just stayed out of trouble, did his silly camp theatrics and continued to rack up wins at the circuit for the next six years. so deeply lame. bless

5. portaloo, jerez 1999

this one I confess I didn't really Get when I read about it the first time. kinda went... okay, that's cute, but I also don't really know what the point is. so it's been a bit of a slow burn for me. think it's one that helps to actually watch and then read a bit about the crowd reaction... it's just a classic case of subverting expectations, right. this entire crowd is going nuts at your victory, you're known for your zany post-race celebrations, and then you just... dive into the portaloo. he has to sell it too, I reckon, like it just wouldn't work the same way without his earnest little dash. and so the crowd goes quiet - until erupting with even more volume once he emerges. just that feel for engaging the crowd... for toying with them and winning them over all the more as a result

4. donkey ears, misano 2009

huh, this one really has snuck up the order for me. idk I just find everything about it annoyingly endearing. I like how valentino was willing to take the piss out of himself after his indy crash (which he very much should because it was extremely stupid). I like how he showed up to his home race with a donkey helmet because he'd been such an idiot. it's a tense moment in the championship given that the indy crash having very much reopened the contest. so you've got valentino really committing to this playful way of bouncing back from an embarrassing failure... smart too! it takes the sting out of things, right, just defuses the optics of his big error by gently mocking himself

The donkey is because I was stupid to crash at Indy. [...] [In this race] I was in trouble, I found myself fourth and I didn't feel confident with a full tank. So I took my time to put some more temperature in the tyres and then I attacked. Today, I was the flying donkey!"

I like how he gets his crew to wear donkey ears to greet him in parc fermé. I LOVE him mock-formally shaking the hands of his team - including obviously with luca - before giving them all a proper hug. unfortunately just unavoidably very sweet. and I like him imitating donkey ears to the camera

and OBVIOUSLY I love him putting on those bloody donkey ears for the actual podium. the way he gets down onto his knees in front of the adoring crowd. wonderfully annoying

just something about these later celebrations, when he wasn't doing them as often anymore,,, it's almost strategically recapturing that sense of whimsy, right - using this old part of his repertoire to regain a measure of authorial control. helps bring to the forefront what the celebrations are actually doing for him in practical competitive terms, what he's getting out of them beyond just having a laff. and of course I love how big a fan of these celebrations jorge is (x, x):

Rossi's donkey. At Misano my Captain America was replaced on track by Rossi’s donkey - the one he put on his helmet and the ears he wore onto the podium. It is one of the funniest celebrations I have seen Valentino do and I laughed when I saw him get the helmet out. He is an expert at turning things around, and that wasn’t the only occasion he put that talent to good use this weekend. On the podium he tried to hush the fans who were whistling at me. Personally I saw their reaction as normal because they were defending one of their own.

one of THE key moments you need to get their dynamic imo. jorge understands exactly what valentino is doing here and they're in the middle of a title fight and jorge really does think it's GREAT. it's sort of the precursor to the misano fish helmet to aragon shark fin 2015 dynamic, right, where jorge is such a keen student of valentino's... and he also is so determined to be magnanimous and honourable and all that other stuff - which is why him glazing the celebrations makes it all the way to his biography. and the helmet makes him laugh, because it's funny! jorge might know what valentino's game is, might be taking notes on exactly what he's doing - but nobody's completely immune

and now *drum roll* my top three in just. a little more detail:

3. kissing the corkscrew, laguna seca 2008

okay, picture this. you are currently leading the championship, but your main rival (who kicked your arse the previous year) has won three races in a row and is steadily closing in on your points tally. he's doing his thing again all weekend, looks ridiculously dominant to the point pretty much everyone is framing this race as a fight for second place. you spend the night before the race plotting and scheming how to make up the difference, and you tell your best friend you will not let your rival win the race whatever happens - even if the both of you have to crash. you go out there and - with all your cunning and guile and ruthlessness - somehow prove yourself capable of hanging with your rival as you gradually infuriate him. on lap four, you plunge down a terrifying blind corner and go off-track as you make an overtake, bumping into your rival and only by some miracle keeping the bike upright. around twenty laps later, you finally break your rival and manage to tease an error out of him that makes him tip the bike into the gravel. you ride the remaining laps in utter tranquillity - not only are you under no threat, but the two of you ran so ferocious a pace that your rival can finish in second even after crashing. you win the race. the championship momentum is back on your side and you have finally managed to drag down your toughest rival down to your level. you know just how much he will have hated that. so, what do you do to commemorate this moment? well, of course you go back to said terrifying blind corner where you almost crashed on lap four of 32. you get off your bike. and you kiss the ground

idk, there's just something beautiful about the presence of mind valentino had to have in order to know that this overtake would be the defining image of the race - to pay tribute to it immediately and reinforce the memorability of that moment in everyone's heads. was he thinking about doing this while cruising home to victory? planning it out while the laps pass by? or was it really just a spur of the moment thing? it's my favourite of the spontaneous celebrations - because of course it could only ever be spontaneous, because he never could have expected to win that race, and certainly not in such a memorable fashion

and then the second part of the celebrations: how valentino decides to really, really, really rub it in. these are for my money quite possibly the most triumphalist celebrations of valentino's premier class career (catalunya 2009 is the only one in the same league), to the point where the eurosport commentators commented on how unusual it was for valentino. back in the day, during his prime, he really did go for a bit more of a cheery but cool tone for his celebrations - almost as if minimising the effort it took to take the win. all just a bit of a laugh, right? no ecstatic fist pumping on the bike, no sign that the victory had ever been in doubt... but here, valentino goes all in. he makes no secret of how delighted he is, no secret of just how much he loved beating casey. interrupts casey during his post-race tv interview in front of lurking cameras and microphone, grins his way through parc fermé and the podium. no playing sly here - he's making a point to savour it. and in commemorating the most memorable moment of the race, in getting a rise out of casey, valentino has gotten exactly what he wanted. together with the race itself, it is this post-race theatre that changes the complexion of the season, that has helped immortalise the episode

which very much includes all the ways valentino interacts with casey directly! the way valentino just REFUSES to leave well enough alone and keeps nagging casey while casey is trying so, so, so hard to not say something he will come to regret in the coming weeks. a task he is ultimately unsuccessful at, but my god is it a brave effort to not strangle valentino then and there. it's fantastic stuff because it's also a pattern of behaviour reserved entirely for casey - latching onto his defeated rival is NOT actually part of the valentino rossi playbook. the closest he gets is interrupting jorge's tv interview too in catalunya 2009 (which is how you know it's a deliberate ploy lol), but after that if anything it's jorge who is initiating communication...

whereas at laguna, obviously casey has less than zero desire to talk to valentino. and obviously valentino is 100% aware of this. valentino usually isn't the sort to get in someone's face like this when he knows they're pissed off at him - he's more the avoidant type - but he makes an exception for casey. partly it'll be because he knows casey isn't doing himself any favours with his on-camera behaviour, partly because it's his chance to twist in the knife and make the experience as hellish as possible for casey - but partly I reckon he's just getting a genuine kick out of casey's reactions. beautiful, isn't it

hell. hell! hell <3

2. prisoner of your own success, brno 2003

look, I've yapped extensively enough about this celebration by now that there's probably not much new for me to say. to make an analogy circa two people reading this will appreciate, you know that episode in revolutionary girl utena where a flashing pointing finger directing the viewer's attention to the symbolically important objects on screen? this is valentino's in-universe equivalent. flexing those authorial muscles to make everyone aware of The Themes. something charming about how it's like. zero subtlety. just valentino turning to the camera and explaining to you, the audience, what character arc he's currently undergoing. you see, he's unhappy at honda - he's feeling trapped, if you will. like his individuality is being suppressed. he had a big cock-up at the sachsenring that made him reevaluate how he tactically approached races - from now on he'd be "taking no prisoners". he feels the media is being too harsh on him, almost as if they're punishing him for how dominant he was the past. which would make him a 'prisoner of his own success'. if you will

here's a post that just like,, has a few relevant quotes from the commentary and the autobiography and all that. key detail about that weekend is that after sulking/partying with his title rival on ibiza during the summer break, valentino shows up to the paddock with his snazzy new hairdo. which obviously the commentators speculate during the race is a form of mind games

dyeing my hair red to psych out the competition. like a pro. the race itself is obviously fantastic, but I love that he had celebrations this elaborate planned out for a race he won by *checks notes* .042 seconds. I mean. come on, could've easily gone wrong. in the end, however, valentino plot armoured his way to reversing the defeat from a few weeks prior - and immediately does this whole chain gang routine, which is just another elite camp bit. and crucially it's also a bit of a throwback! the planned celebrations had petered out a little at this stage of his career, as if he'd grown out of them... both the hair and the celebrations are recapturing his wild lesbian youth from the days before he became a honda factory man

he's got to break free, you see, got to express his identity again. and "prisoner of my own success" is just. such a funny phrase. deeply insufferable. the way he carries that stupid ball and chain around with him, on the bike and off it... how sete has a kick at it during the podium ceremony... how valentino's still holding that blasted thing mid-champagne spray...

open wide

valentino brings back the celebrations later that year when he seals the title - carried aloft by fans dressed in convicts' garb while sporting a massive novelty lock and key. back in brno, he had told yamaha under the cover of night that he would sign for them. when he seals the title, his last for honda, he is freed from the expectations of the press and the fans that had been weighing on him all year. he is about to liberate himself from honda. the novelty lock is now open... whatever that might symbolise. and the following year is about truly embracing his own identity, for better and for worse. beyond being a fun celebration, it functions as a neat little thematic road map for what's to come. plot significant celebration. imagine having plot significant celebrations

1. sweeping the grid, sepang 2004

sue me, I'm horrible, but this one will always come top of the pile for me. this is another one I've talked about way too much by this point - but to me it really is the definitive marriage of joy and cruelty that valentino so thoroughly embodies. he's having fun! coming up with a little joke with his team :) but of course the whole thing is also incredibly, shamelessly malicious. valentino is obviously on one that entire weekend... or, well, he's on one that entire month tbh. he's already exhibited some generational malice in the press conference that started off proceedings, he's doing his thing that entire weekend to unsettle poor sete as much as possible - and eventually he wins the race in reasonably straightforward fashion

which in itself is already enough to swing the title fight back to being basically wrapped up (though I'd still advise keeping the risky last lap phillip island lunges to a minimum, but you do you), so you'd think that'd be job done. except valentino is still feeling furious and vengeful towards both sete and honda. so after blatantly ignoring sete's outstretched hand on the cooldown lap (to the surprise of one of the commentators, who said such unsportsmanlike behaviour was unlike valentino - which... buddy), valentino then stops at the side of the road for another one of his fun little celebrations. this time, it's reenacting the sweeping of the grid that had given him that nasty back-of-the-grid penalty the week before

similarly to misano 2009, what valentino's doing is defanging his own mistake from the previous week - he's reducing its power, drawing attention away from the self-inflicted nature of his precarious championship situation, making his setbacks into jokes better than anyone else can. except unlike in 2009, valentino does not primarily blame himself for his recent humiliation. valentino's pre-planned celebrations are generally about himself, not his rivals - but he makes an exception here to mock sete and honda. to show them that nothing is forgiven. the sete rivalry is about valentino gaining more agency in his story, including in torturing his rivals, so it feels right that this gleeful malice really comes to the fore here too. I didn't include jerez 2005 in this post because that's more... valentino reacting to the crowd in his celebrations rather than doing his own thing (though obviously I'm also a massive massive fan of that energy and dearly wish valentino had been booed more often). and well, that's the same vibe of valentino just relishing how much torment he was causing sete, the spanish crowd... the fourth wall break when he's mocking sete's injury, just properly embracing the nastier side of his celebrations. joy and cruelty, cruelty and joy - these two things were never really in opposition to each other for valentino

and just to mention my favourite detail, the cleaning company valentino and co invent to 'eliminate dirt from the world championship':

as in, they're cleaning starting grids... but they're also taking action against dirty rats. naming no names. lovely, isn't it

the whole thing's mean-spirited to a somewhat cartoonish extent - especially when you consider what a tight timeline they were on here. seven days between qatar and sepang, both flyaway races, like logistically it's honestly kinda impressive they made this happen. what the power of spite will do for you, I suppose. I also love that jb has one of these shirts. I love jb being completely ride-or-die in getting revenge on sete, helpfully commenting that it's dangerous to piss valentino off. watch out :) get yourself a crew chief who will enable you in psychologically torturing your opponents

and, remember, all this came in the third-to-last round of a tight title fight!! with a slender fourteen point lead in the championship, a mere week in between races including quickly nipping back to italy to attempt to address the hole in his finger... and valentino's spending his time coming up with custom shirts to take the piss out of his enemies? fantastic sense of priorities, 10/10 no notes

#underrated bit of jerez '05 is when they interview jb live on air and he fully goes 'yeah i didn't see what happened in the last corner :)'#like it just adds something vale ended up with a crew chief who's also so messyyyy idk... the stuff he used to say about jorge/casey/dani #theyre always saying how no nonsense this lad is and he's letting his charge brainstorm mean shirt ideas at the back end of the title fight #//#brr brr #clown tag #batsplat responds

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