#Lin Yu Ting

[assignedmale]

[lilacsupernova]

*Note: Tumblr might say reblogs have been turned off for this post. They haven't!*

(Also: I have a deeper, updated dive coming soon!)

Some commentary on the Imane Khelif & Lin Yu Ting boxing situation

I read these two as male. Nothing has indicated they are trans-identifying but the image of Imane Khelif as a child might indicate him being raised as a girl due to having a DSD. This is irrelevant to whether he should compete as a woman though. Both athletes have XY chromosomes – which if untrue they could do a simple cheek swab to prove they're women (as if they wouldn't already know from not having periods etc.). This would only need to be done once, and is less invasive than regular doping tests all athletes do! If XY chromosomes are found (as they already have been), they should do as Erik Schinegger did in 1968 and refuse to compete in the women's category anymore.

Claims this is a big conspiracy where the IBA are lying due to corruption are illogical. The claim they only disqualified Khelif and Yu Ting so they couldn't beat Russian boxers is false. While it sounds like they are corrupt due to Russian influence, and they ordered the DNA tests, the tests themselves were performed independently and showed they had XY chromosomes. Based on this info, and their women-have-XX-chromosomes policy the IBA banned them from competing in the women's category. Think about it, how bold (and stupid) would it be to falsely claim these two aren't female, given how easily that claim could be disproved?

Plus, if we're going to throw around corruption claims, how about the IOC? Who we know are happy to allow men to compete in the women's category based on their baffling and nonsensical rules (including no presumption of advantage based on sex)? Who ended sex-verification screening in 2000? Something Independent Council on Women’s Sports (ICONS) co-founder Marshi Smith has condemned, saying it allows the Yu Ting/Khelif issue to even be a thing. The IOC who decided they could compete as women based on passport sex markers? (Which we know can be legal fictions). Who previously allowed Caster Semenya - a man with a DSD, XY chromosomes and undescended testes - to compete as a woman? Who allowed Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and Margaret Nyairera Wambui to take all three medals at the Rio 2016 women's 800m? I see far more evidence for how corruption is affecting the IOC's view in this matter than the IBA's.

I will also remind everyone (including radfems) that all because a corrupt/'bad'/bad person said something, it does not necessarily mean what they're saying is false! We know the words of radfems/GC people/anyone can be disregarded and derided because they've been branded a 'TERF', but that does not indicate the veracity of their words! The strength of their claims / arguments do. (I wish I could find that meme about a priest saying the sky is blue or something like that). I'm not telling you to believe what I'm saying because I'm saying it; do your own research, think critically, and make up your own minds based on the evidence.

The boxers in question:

Lin Yu Ting is guaranteed a bronze medal at minimum in the Women's 57kg due to making the semifinals (both boxers who lose the semis get bronze, the winners compete in the final for gold). His semi is 7 August at 9.30pm (all times Paris time) against Turkey's Esra Yildiz Kahraman, and the final will be 10 August at 9.30pm (worth watching anyway to support the women!).

Imane Khelif is also guaranteed a bronze minimum in the 66kg Women's category. He plays Janjaem Suwannapheng from Thailand on 6 August at 10.34pm. If he reaches the final, it's 9 August at 10.51pm.

What other boxers have said:

Svetlana Staneva of Bulgaria protested by refusing to shake Lu Ting's hand and making an X symbol after she was defeated by him 5-0.

Angela Carini burst into tears and refused to shake Khelif's hands after choosing to forfeit the match due the fearing for her safety due the strength of his punches. She later issued an apology, which frankly I suspect she was pressured into in order to be allowed to continue to box.

Brianda Tamara from Mexico also alluded to the strength of Khelif's blows, saying "when I fought with her I felt very out of my depth. Her blows hurt me a lot, I don’t think I had ever felt like that in my 13 years as a boxer, nor in my sparring with men. Thank God that day I got out of the ring safely, and it’s good that they finally realized."

Caitlin Parker, the Australian boxing captain says "I don't agree with [Khelif and Yu Ting] being allowed to compete in sport, especially combat sports. It can be incredibly dangerous. It's not like I haven't sparred men before. But you know it can be dangerous for combat sports and it should be seriously looked into. Yes, biologically … genetically they are going to have more advantages. I really hope the organisations get their act together so that boxing can continue to be at the Olympics. It's the oldest Olympic sport. Women's boxing was only introduced in 2012 and I want to see it for the next 100, 200 years to come." (She competes in the 75kg semifinal on 8 August at 10.02pm).

Santiago Nieva, an Australian boxing coach, and Marissa Williamson, who could have met Khelif in the 66kg category disagree. Only the male coach is quoted, however.

Hergie Bacyadan, a female Filipina boxer who identifies as a trans male (but hasn't taken testosterone) on the other hand agrees with Parker, saying through a translator "in sparring it's OK, but if they have XY chromosomes in competition, they should abide by the rules."

Former women's world champion Mária Kovács has wryly remarked that in modern women's boxing "there is a 20 percent chance that one of the athletes will suffer a testicular injury." She also discouraged Hungary's Anna Luca Hámori from competing against Khelif. Hámori posted an AI picture on Instagram of a female boxer fighting a devil and referred to Khelif as a man, for which the Algerian Olympic Committee submitted a complaint to the IOC, and forced her to delete it and apologise to Khelif. She was then defeated by Khelif 5-0 in the quarterfinal, hugging him afterwards. (Similar situation to Carini?)

What others have said:

An open letter calling for the IOC the reverse its decision to allow Yu Ting and Khelif to compete, and to reinstate sex screening has been signed by the likes of: Sharron Davies, Riley Gaines, Martina Navratrilova, Fair Play for Women, Save Women's Sport Australasia, Women's Declaration International, and more.

Dr Emma Hilton, a developmental biologist, has done research which found "a male boxer's punch is 160% more powerful than a woman's". (Unfortunately the article doesn't cite which study, and I don't have access to her articles to determine which one it is). She considers "this decision to include two men (Khelif and Yu-ting) in women's boxing to be extremely worrying, both for the safety and well-being of the female boxers against whom these two men will be competing."

Lastly, the UN's special rapporteur on violence against women and girls Reem Alsalem has said Carini "rightly followed her instincts and prioritised her physical safety, but she and other female athletes should not have been exposed to this physical and psychological violence based on their sex."

Other commentary:

Here is some commentary from IreneBritUSA, Karen Davis of You're Kidding, Right?, Aja the Empress, Marshi Smith (co-founder of ICONS), Jennifer Sieland, Anna Slatz, Dr Colin Wright (an evolutionary biologist), Meghan Murphy and Mary Lou Singleton (upcoming), and Doriane Lambelet Coleman. Note several WoC are speaking out!

[ever-so-slightly-monstrous]

If you're outraged/confused by the controversy surrounding Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-Ting and sex testing at the Olympics (why are they allowed to do it, why are they allowed to release the results to the public, etc), then I cannot recommend enough listening to the short run podcast Tested, hosted by Rose Eveleth. The series goes into when sex testing in Olympic Women's sports started (hint: literally the moment women were allowed to compete), why it started, how it's done, the ways in which is has been challenged, put down, then comes back as if nothing has changed, and how it has destroyed the careers and lives of numerous athletes who are disproportionately dark skinned women from the global South. It cannot be overstated the role racism plays in who gets tested.

Again, that's Tested, which can be listened to here or on pretty much any podcatcher.

[justinssportscorner]

Anna Merlan at Mother Jones:

By the time J.K. Rowling, Elon Musk, and Donald Trump were falsely referring to her as a man, the lies about Imane Khelif had already traveled halfway around the world. Last week, two Olympic boxers—Khelif, from Algeria, and Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan—were subjected to brutal international scrutiny about their sex and gender, and whether they were entitled to compete in women’s events; the attention on Khelif became particularly acrid after her opponent, Italian Angela Carini, quit 46 seconds into their bout, declaring that she had “never been hit so hard in my life.” A photo of the two women exiting the ring, Carini in tears, Khelif casting a glance, was widely shared, with people like Rowling—who’s promoted transphobic views for years, but has denied being transphobic—offering heated and derogatory commentary about Khelif.   “Could any picture sum up our new men’s rights movement better?” Rowling tweeted. “The smirk of a male who’s [sic] knows he’s protected by a misogynist sporting establishment enjoying the distress of a woman he’s just punched in the head, and whose life’s ambition he’s just shattered.” 

While the attacks on Khelif are of a piece with familiar recent Western controversies over who is allowed to participate in girls’ and women’s sports, many of the articles and individuals magnifying the debate relied on or relayed the claims of a discredited group with strong ties to the Russian government, a deep grudge against the International Olympic Committee, and a seemingly vested interest in proving that the IOC-run games are, as the group’s leader has claimed, a venue for “sodomy.”

In trying to unravel what led up to this moment, many individuals and news outlets cited a statement released by the official-sounding International Boxing Association, which stated that both Khelif and Yu-Ting had previously been disqualified from competing in the IBA-administered Women’s World Boxing Championships in March 2023. The women were barred from that competition, which took place in New Delhi, following tests the organization has not publicly clarified, citing privacy rules. At the time, IBA president Umar Kremlev told a Russian state news agency that the women had been found to have “XY chromosomes” and claimed the two had “pretended to be women” and “tried to deceive their colleagues.” Even if the IBA’s findings were true, having XY chromosomes does not automatically make someone male—women with Swyer syndrome, a rare genetic condition, have XY for instance. Nor are XY chromosomes proven to constitute an “unfair advantage,” although that is exactly what an IBA official claimed in a press conference on Monday. One pediatrics expert told NBC in 2009—one of the innumerable times this issue has been raised in women’s sports—that such a claim was “malarkey.”

[...] When Khelif and Yu-Ting were disqualified by the IBA back in New Delhi, skeptics questioned how it benefited Azalia Amineva, a Russian fighter. The women were not ruled ineligible until after they’d already competed and Khelif had won a bout against the previously undefeated Amineva. While IBA officials said the sequence of events was due to a week’s delay in being provided testing results, as the Associated Press has pointed out, the decision meant the Russian fighter’s perfect record was retroactively restored. Kremlev isn’t shy about expressing a broad fixation on gender and sexuality, with him, as the sports website Defector has pointed out, decrying the IOC on YouTube for promoting “outright sodomy and the destruction of traditional values.” In the wake of the Paris games’ opening ceremony, he blasted the spectacle, which featured queer performers, as “pure sodomy,” while saying the IOC “burns from pure devilry” and that its president is a “chief sodomite.” He also claimed that “men with changed gender are allowed to fight with women in boxing at the Olympics.” (Videos with such remarks have been helpfully subtitled in English to draw a wider, Western audience.) Last week, Kremlev announced the IBA would give $50,000 in prize money to the defeated opponents of Khelif and Yu-Ting.

[...] The Khelif affair captures English-speaking transphobes with rigid ideas about the nature of womanhood picking up on a politically motivated campaign from a discredited organization at open war with the IOC. Indeed, right-wing organizations in the United States, including the Independent Women’s Forum and CPAC, via its chair Matt Schlapp, have paid for sponsored posts on Musk’s X platform, calling her “a man“—posts that appear when users search for information on the controversy.

The International Boxing Association, which is a Kremlin-led body led by Umar Kremlev that is permanently banned from being the sanctioning body for Olympic boxers, has instigated a transphobic war against cis women boxers Lin Yu-ting and Imane Khelif.

The IBA issued politically-motivated disqualifications of the pair in 2023 that don’t stand up to scrutiny.

[freesiahubiga]

these absolute icons. far right freaks yall can fuck right off😁💗

[persimmonlions]

Lin Yu-Ting, Vogue Taiwan Aug 2024

[patchesthegreat]

"but look how hard they punched their opponents! right in the face too! they might cause serious injuries if they stay in! Carini may have had her nose broken!"

yeah, that's how boxing generally works

[makoto-shizumu]

Everyone was worried Yu-Ting would be bullied on the podium, especially by Esra. But I’m glad that’s not the case. 💖🇹🇼💖🇵🇱💖🇹🇷💖🇵🇭💖

And with that, we end our Olympic campaign with two golds and five bronzes - our second best performance in history. 🥇🥇🥉🥉🥉🥉🥉

[feminismisstillahatemovement]

[iicraft505]

Anyone who uses he/him for Imane Khelif or Lin Yu Ting is getting blocked idc literally anything else is irrelevant put the Olympics aside, they're women. I thought socialization and gender norms was part of what these people cared about but I guess not

[pfeffermuhle]

you know how good it feels to be a lesbian rn

[msclaritea]

HAPPENING NOW🚨

The International Boxing Association is holding a press conference in Paris to address the issues surrounding Algerian boxer Imane Khelif and Taiwanese boxer Lin Yu-Ting.

Dr. Ioannis Filippatos, the former Chair of IBA Medical Committee and an OB/GYN with three decades of experience, has spoken.

He has confirmed that neither Lin nor Khelif are biological females, and has slammed the IOC for using passports as a system for determining gender.

"Medicine is knowledge, it is not opinion ... One passport can give to us the opportunity to be men, and, tomorrow when I go back to Athens, I can go to my government and change my name from Ioannis to Ionnia. That means I am a woman tomorrow? Please. The nature and the biological world do not change."

[etruski]

Imane Khelif had to fight to participate in boxing because her father did not approve of boxing for girls. She had to sell scrap metal to afford the bus fare to a neighboring village where she could attend training sessions.

Lin Yu-Ting took up boxing to protect her mother from domestic violence.

They should be enjoying Olympics like any other athlete but instead are faced with vile racist, misogynist and transphobic abuse, I feel so bad for them I hope they’re safe :(

[justinssportscorner]

Josh Peter at USA Today:

PARIS –Taiwan’s Lin Yu-Ting, one of two female boxers targeted in a “gender eligibility’’ controversy at the Paris Olympics, capped the turbulent experience in similar fashion. Triumphantly. Lin won a gold medal Saturday night by beating Poland’s Julia Szeremeta on points by unanimous decision in the finals of the women’s featherweight division (126 pounds) at Roland-Garros Stadium. Leading with a crisp jab, Lin won the first two rounds convincingly and danced free from trouble in the third round. The victory came one night after Algeria’s Imane Khelif won a gold medal by beating China’s Yang Liu in the finals of the women’s welterweight (146 pounds) division.

Both Lin and Khelif have been subjected to abuse on social media and inaccurate online speculation about their sexes even though the International Olympic Committee (IOC) has said they both have met all criteria and that there’s no question they are women.

Lin Yu-ting of Chinese Taipei (Taiwan) 🇹🇼 wins women's boxing featherweight gold medal 🏅 .

J.K., Riley, and the other anti-trans bullies who tried to take her (and Imane Khelif) down several pegs can suck it!

[millua]