#Like the show itself has pushed this narrative for mike and el the entire time and yet

[5thsideblog]

if the creators wanted us to think mike and el were this beautiful power couple that will stand the test of time and have their big cheesy fairytale ending why not schedule finn and millie to have a q&a together…. Instead of finn and noah…. why are they grouping finn and noah/mike and will together SO much this season. Like i know we haven’t officially entered promotion yet and won’t for a long time but even all the leaks ive seen photo wise ive seen more for will and mike than mike and el. it’s crazy 😭😭 like the more i think about it none of the crazy theories or overanalysis is what makes me think byler will happen, it’s simply the way the creators choose to group them together all the time. When one of the guys is literally in a canonical relationship with the main girl.

[love-byers]

....wait . there are people who don't think the show is centered around will? there are people who don't think a core part of s5 will be wills culmination as a character?? there are people who don't think the entire supernatural plot will circle back to will???

besides the fact that the duffers LITERALLY CONFIRMED that will is the center of s5...

the show itself literally tells you. that is the narrative they've been pushing the entire time.

the entire first season is about finding will. every single plotline is connected to finding will.

mike and the boys are using el to find will

jonathan and nancy are working together to hunt the monster they believe has taken will and barb

joyce is trying to communicate with will to find out where he is and how to save him

hopper is a cop investigating the case, and eventually he and joyce team up to investigate further into the lab conspiracy, believing it's tied to wills disappearance

a massive chunk of s2 is about wills connection to the upside down. he's being hunted by the mind flayer and used as a spy, causing a lot of the conflict but also leading to the resolution.

now that we know vecna was behind all of that, that open so many doors for will in s5. if you use your fucking peanut brain for 5 seconds you'll realize there are lots of things we don't know surrounding will and vecna that will come to light in s5. vecna specifically sought will out and hunted him down. remember s2?

"It wanted to kill you?"

"Not me. Everyone else."

we're also getting flashbacks of will in the upside down so we can see exactly what happened to him the week he was there. clearly there's something important we don't know about. the upside down is literally frozen on the day will went missing. but will isn't important and won't be a big part of s5?

s3 is the first time will is less significant to the plot. he still has the connection to the mind flayer and his ability to sense it is still relevant to the story and helps push it along. bit still, he had significantly less lines and screen time. much of his story is portrayed as him struggling to 'grow up' and not being interested in romance like the others. there are several jokes that present will as simply being childish and reluctant to grow out of it. which a lot of people found sort of annoying. i remember seeing a lot of people enjoying s3, but wishing will had more depth and importance.

but we now know that that's not the whole truth. all of that, him being annoyed and disinterested by romance, just wanting to play dnd with the party, and fighting with mike was all subtext leading into his sexuality and the fact that he's in love with mike. that's been confirmed by actors and the duffers themselves. though will's sexuality was always hinted at, it wasn't meant to fully come to light until s4. so they tried to pass it off as will just being childish. they tried to pass of mike and wills conflict as only being about dnd and growing up. a prime example of this is will tearing down castle byers after his fight with mike. he rips the photo of the core 4 as the ghostbusters down the middle, aka where he and mike are in the center. that is easily passed off as just being about the friend group. people BELIEVED that it was just about the friend group, and that there was no way will was in love with mike. but it's now literally confirmed that he is. like it's insane how many people never even considered that as a possibility. people literally just tune out parts of the show they don't immediately find interesting. i've seen so many comments on byler scenes, for example "it's not my fault you don't like girls", saying "wait i don't remember this scene when did he say that??" people just don't pay attention or think deeper than surface level, which in this case is okay because wills sexuality was meant to be something you slowly realized. the problem comes when people just start denying its significance and refusing to see it for what it is.

if you take in all of will's story with mike and whittle it down to "stupid gay crush on best friend" i don't know what show YOUVE been watching. did you forget that will only remembered his mom and mike when he was possessed and lost his memory? that mike recounting the day they met was enough for will to break through and communicate while possessed? that will puts mikes happiness before his own? that will has literally said he needs mike and always will?

it's not a crush that will can just get over. you know we actually have an example of a simple crush and it's dustin and max. how did that work out? dustin got over max very quickly and it's no biggie. he didn't go on a monologue about how he needs max and always will. he just thought she was cool and pretty.

also, the show spends so much time getting the audience to feel bad for will and want to see him happy. you are SUPPOSED to like him. you are supposed to have empathy for him. will is written to be extremely gentle, kind, and selfless.

will is too nice to say anything bad about anyone, even after being viscously bullied and called slurs for years. even by his own father, WHO HE STILL CANT TALK BAD ABOUT!!!

no matter how much will suffers, he remains kind and selfless. he gave a girl his tonka truck knowing joyce couldn't by him another one. mike says they shouldn't give up on looking for him because will sacrificed himself in dnd to save the party. remember the whole thing in s2 about joyce getting on will for constantly apologizing even when he did nothing wrong? there is no point to that besides evoking empathy for him!!!!! he is sweet and sensitive and doesn't deserve any of this!!!!!!!!

and about bylers being delusional for thinking will and mikes relationship will be a big part of s5 and the culmination of everything in a show about monsters killing people, here's a quote from shawn levy, who has directed many stranger things episodes

"People talk about mythology and The Upside Down, and all that is huge, but the magic of S5 are the characters who find sense of belonging with other and through that connection, become heroes."

everyone loves the stranger things relationships until they're queer. when they're queer suddenly there's no time for romance in a sci fi show, the writers actually suck, and they're just baiting. lumax and their love for each other was a core plot of the season where the big bad was trying to kill her all season. there is an entire plot point about max's memory of kissing lucas at the snow ball saving her life. in a show like this, there is time for relationships and supernatural stuff because they are interwoven when the time comes. they can do the exact same thing with byler in s5. s5 is going to be the longest season thus far. there will definitely be time for relationship development.

so yeah. call me delusional but i don't think the show will end with wills feelings for mike unresolved or with them just evaporating. given everything we know about s5 (relationships and finding belonging being an important factor, noah and finn constantly filming together, leakers saying will has a love interest) and everything we already know about the relationship formulas in ST, literally all the signs are pointing to byler. the only rebuttal people have is calling us delusional because the writers just wouldn't do that. if you actually push past the heteronormativity and consider the fact that the duffers do want to represent queer people in a way that doesn't reinforce the idea that we can never find love or be happy, things will start making a lot more sense.

i'm sorry to have to say this about mike but mike is a character presumed straight who hasn't been super relevant in the supernatural plot for 2 seasons now, just as long as will. his significant plot points are related to el or will. relationship development. and unlike will, he has been an ACTUAL asshole!!!! lots of people stopped liking mike as much after s2 because of his personality change. (ofc i still love mike, but there's been multiple plot lines about mike being a dick for no reason and apologizing for it) but no one has VISCERAL hatred for him like they do will byers. not saying mike deserves hate, cause he certainly doesn't, but the problems people have with will, they only have with will. any other character doing it is fine. 2 seaons of wills feelings for mike is boring and distracting but 2 seasons of mike having the same 'i love you' problems with el isn't?

i'm not saying the sudden hate for will is because it's now clear that he's gay but im kind of saying it

some people can't sympathize with queer issues because they don't care about queer people. they don't empathize with queer people. queer issues bore them.

will byers i will ALWAYS defend you. you are safe with me pookie

[strangertheory]

I notice you corrected that other anon on Will being a creator, instead calling him a host. I'm just curious why you did that, as I agree with anon. Will definitely seems to have the power to create. He creates physical worlds other people can enter, like the Upside Down. You might say he didn't create his alters, but it's not normal practice for alters to walk around independent of the host body. That definitely feels like an offshoot of Will's ability to create.

I'm aware I'm an outlier and that my thoughts on this are not shared by most fans, even fans that find the DID theory to be plausible. But at this point in time my current theory and meta for Stranger Things that you will see me most often discussing here on my blog is that all supernatural events are taking place exclusively within the mind, within internal worlds and distorted metaphorical memories, or within an as-yet unrevealed other meta narrative such as a story-within-a-story. (Or both. I do like the theory that Stranger Things is a story being written by Mike.)

These days I am most often discussing my ideas about Stranger Things within the hypothetical of many scenes in the series taking place in internal worlds or memories that are distorted metaphorically or being revisited in a unique as-yet-unrevealed way. I personally do not presume that alters are walking around in the external world except when they are fronting (or coconscious together) in the body, or when they are interacting with each other within internal worlds that exist in their shared mind.

Maybe the best way to describe my current meta and theory is to say: what if Stranger Things could be a true story? What if we spend a lot of time in internal worlds? What if the entire story is about the way the mind can compartmentalize and process trauma and memories in a way that is unique and "strange" and then additionally also about the recovery and healing and happiness that can be experienced by those who have been through terrible, traumatic things?

I know that kaypeace21, for example, has her own different interpretations and theories regarding the events of the series, and I enjoy reading her ideas and blogposts even when we might not agree entirely. We don't always share the same theoretical ideas and focuses. Our blogs and our thoughts are often very different. I have an appreciation and interest in the theory that psychics are real in the Stranger Things universe (like in X-Men) and that the alters were brought out of the mind and into the external world as well, and I appreciate it as a hypothetical, but at this point in time my emphasis and focus on my blog is on my theory that significant parts of the show are in fact taking place in the mind of characters and not in the external world in the way that we might currently be assuming.

Telling a story from the perspective from within a DID System and its internal worlds rather than as an outside observer is a very compelling concept to me. Yes, I know many see this theory as pushing things "too far." But I see it as an interesting hypothetical within which the concept of internal worlds and memories and the internal workings of a DID System can be explored in a way that I haven't seen done very often in other media.

But to return to the question of why I prefer to refer to Will as a host and not as a "creator" or "the creator..."

Host is a great term that is specific to the context of the theory that we were discussing in the other ask.

I do not mean to be pedantic but I am trying to be consistent with how I present information and terminology so that anyone less familiar with DID can repeatedly see these terms used in relevant contexts over and over again and recognize the connection that I am drawing between DID and the Stranger Things meta that I discuss.

The other anon had used the phrase "outside their roles as creator or gatekeeper" in their message. Creator is a general word that has many different meanings depending on context and that is not a formally defined role within a DID System in the way that the word "gatekeeper" holds specific purpose and meaning as a term. The term "host" is concise and specific and encompasses the complexity of the role because it is the term widely used to describe that role in DID and is generally understood and accepted. I wanted to keep the use of terminology consistent.

I also find it useful to discuss Will as a "host" because this is a term that has been used for Will within Stranger Things' canon itself and which also further reinforces the theory that I am trying to explore as a valid meta. Consistently discussing Will as a "host" helps point to a term that connects Stranger Things and DID in the same way that discussing El as a "gatekeeper" helps connect Stranger Things and DID ("The gate. I opened it.")

I believe that the more often we use words in conversation, the more familiar they become to us and the more their meaning becomes present in our minds. Because DID is such an unfamiliar (and often misunderstood) topic to the majority of people, rather than choosing to distance my language from specific terminology used to discuss DID, I choose to repeatedly use these terms (alter, host, gatekeeper, protector, persecutor, etc.) to reinforce their meaning within not only the context of this specific Stranger Things meta but also their meaning and significance within discussions of DID in general.

I worry that if I begin to use terms that are non-specific (such as "creator") when talking about the DID theory that I risk muddling what I actually mean and, worse, possibly muddling what I'm trying to explain to those in my blog's audience who are unfamiliar with DID.

When a word exists that represents what I mean to say and that can also hopefully encourage increased understanding and interest in something, why not use that optimal word so that people can get more comfortable with understanding it rather than reach for a different, less-accurate word that in the past has caused some readers of my blog to misunderstand what the word "host" means when I use it?

I hope everyone who feels differently takes this answer to this Ask in good faith and understands my intentions are not to suggest that anyone who chooses to use different words is "wrong." Not at all. This is entirely about my comfort with my words and my blog and the approach I try to take in discussing this theory when I myself am engaged with this topic.

And if you are a member of a system yourself and you are reading this blogpost but you like thinking of hosts within your system as "creators" I think that's awesome and valid and I hope that you understand that nothing I have said in this blogpost is intended to speak over who you are and how you understand and describe your system. I'm simply intentionally using the term "host" as its used within Stranger Things and as its used in the general context of discussion of alter roles within DID Systems in general.

Thanks for asking, Anon. In summary, please take my preference for the term "host" as being specific to my desire to use terminology consistently on my blog to avoid confusion when I'm referring to very specific conditions such as DID that exist in the real world, and to encourage people to understand what I mean when I say the word "host" in the context of this theory.

I didn't mean to imply that describing Will as a creator is necessarily wrong per se, but rather that when done within the context of referring to El as a gatekeeper and within the context of DID system rolea that the word for Will's role is host and it gave me a brief opportunity to remind anyone reading the blogpost that Will, within this meta and theory, is a host.

[clericbyers]

honestly ok i'm firm in my belief that if byler isn't canon and/or if mileven is endgame, it's not the duffer brothers' doing but netflix's. the duffer brothers have dropped so many hints of mileven not being endgame (can't think of many off the top of my head but the whole "it's mike's first kind of crush" thing in particular), but netflix knows the st audience is mainly there for mileven. st is basically their cash cow at this point, do u rly think they'd let the duffer brothers break them up?

Yes, I think it’s important to note that Netflix does have a large hand in what Stranger Things is allowed to do. Netflix is more freeing than a cable network hands down, but ST is their cash cow and many people purchase subscriptions just to watch the show. To keep those viewers in, the show does have to pander to the fans’ desires and include advertisements as we see in ST3. A large part of the audience is there for Mike and El, hence why ST3 again pushes focus on that couple. Mike and El were never thought to be endgame and Netflix can push the marketing all they want but it doesn’t erase the fact that El was supposed to die at the end of ST1, and the Snowball kiss was never in the original script for ST2. The Duffers have their hands tied yeah, that’s the cost of having a popular show tied to a network that needs money and already we see how that’s affecting the storytelling and narrative of the series.

I have my fingers crossed that ST will prevail as one of those shows that stays good after three seasons but we’ll see. And by good I mean I can totally get down with endgame Mike/El if it’s written correctly and they both mature into the relationship. By good I mean we get Will and Lucas not treated as side characters for another season in a row. By good I mean we get a solid conclusion to the story of the Upside Down and Hawkins and the lab kids. Endgame Mike/Will would be fantastic and somewhat keep the show true to itself: this is a story about a young boy who goes missing and how his friends and family try to find him and uncover the paranormal secrets of their town. Consequential seasons develop in the aftermath of the events of ST1 and how the characters bond after such a startling shock to reality. The startling shocks include the confusion of growing up and self identity, puberty and discovering attraction, dealing with homosexuality in reference to the former two points, and the literal evils of another dimension. In that framework, it is entirely possible to explore how two of these kids come to terms with loving each other despite it being taboo at the time. The show is all about dealing with the monsters that consume our very being in the darkness. It is so completely appropriate to bring homosexuality up as one of those “monsters’ given the times the show is set it.

Anyway, yeah, I’ll be disappointed if that particular topic isn’t explored because kind of like what you said, no Mike/Will means no broken up Mike/El, which means Netflix stuck their hands in the mix and said no for the sake of views and money. But...yeah I agree that Netflix has equal part in this and I think it’s fair to acknowledge the hints the Duffers have dropped in show / in interviews that they may not be able to carry to full term because of Netflix.