#Kai leng

[roseygeearts]

This has been rotating in my brain

[angstyastro]

We all agree Kai Leng has plot armor but I also like to believe that he knew he could not 1v1 Shepard and was booking it every encounter like a coward because ngl with you I too would shit bricks at seeing THE commander Shepard in their grief and rage and absolute tank of a body with all their cybernetics coming at him like the kool aid man.

Like if I saw Shepard doing this after I shanked her lizard bf I would run too ngl

[edenprime]

I despise Kai Leng and his pathetic faux foil role in ME3 so much. It would've been so much better if it had been the Virmire victim and honestly- it would've made the Cerberus storyline so much better. It would've turned "Shepard becomes an idiot every time some guy with a sword appears" into "Shepard is blindsided by seeing their friend back from the dead". It also works with the foils dynamic and more:

Both brought back by Cerberus. Shows Shepard the other side of the coin - how they could've been if Cerberus had actually messed with their head. Shepard also makes some comments about themselves that make it look, in a way, like they do have some lingering doubts at the very least about coming back. When you look at the Shepard VI and they ask if they are really like that, when they ask EDI if they are transhuman or cyborg, when they refuse to talk about the clone situation every time it's brought up on the DLC, when they keep comparing the clone to themselves... I know we have the child dreams as our show of Shepards PTSD, but this could've added another layer to it.

"And for every soldier you [the reapers] add, your enemy loses two: the one you converted, and his buddy on the other side who can't pull the trigger on a friend." -> we could see this! Javik aludes to the same, but we never see it on screen. It's just a hypothetical, the only people who become indoctrinated are villains, Cerberus, or their allies. This would've shown that, it would've been some cool foreshadowing. As it is, it's just a loose end.

Shepard spat in Cerberus eye when they left, especially if they destroyed the Collector base. Using the resuscitated and indoctrinated friend against them would've been an incredible way of spitting back at them. It would've been an amazing show of power. It could've demonstrated that Shepard wasn't the first, that Cerberus was already experimenting with life and death even before the success of the Lazarus project.

It gives more credibility to TIM's claims that he can control the reapers, and it's a nice setup to the reveal of what's actually going on in Horizon and Sanctuary.

And even then, no Kai Leng and no Virmire victim would've been better than Kai Leng. Everything stays the same but that plot-armored jackass doesn't exist. Cerberus attempts a coup with regular agents, they steal the data from thessia with regular agents, they show up as regular agents on Horizon, etc. Because Leng doesn't work at all in the story. He doesn't.

Regardless of how well it was executed, the entire Cerberus plot line is supposed to be a "coming full circle" moment from me1. We had the indoctrinated Saren leading the indoctrinated geth (synthetic) in me1. We have the indoctrinated TIM leading indoctrinated humans (organics) in me3. We end up with a "showdown" between saren/TIM in which depending on how persuasive we were during our previous talks, they (now deformed by reaper tech) shoot themselves in the head.

Where does Kai Leng fit into all of this? He doesn't! He's just... there. He's got no room in the story.

[clericofshadows]

REGIS SHEPARD - 26/??? MASS EFFECT 3 - PRIORITY: CERBERUS HQ MODS: SHUT UP LENG & GUARDIAN ARMORS FOR SHEPARD

[dalekofchaos]

Imagine the Virmire Sacrifice as the Cerberus assassin instead of Kai Leng

Inspired by my poll

Kai Leng was a terrible character from terrible novels. No one wanted him in the games. He could barely handle a Drell with space cancer and couldn’t even kill Anderson and Sanders, but they want us to expect us to believe that Leng is Shepard’s equal? To me I would just have him executed on Omega since Leng DID kill Aria's daughter.

But yes storywise, it's better. Shepard was haunted about not being able to save either Kaidan/Ashley. TIM would use the Virmire casualty as Plan B should Shepard turn against his interests.

Imagine Cerberus was on Virmire. Cerberus scientists working on a counter agent to stop the Genophage cure and even working on a virus that could kill Saren.

The Illusive Man reveals to his agents it's too late, however he tells them there can be a valuable asset they can retrieve.

Cerberus mad dashes to the bomb site and grabs Ash/Kaidan in time, however the bomb goes off and the after shock hits the Cerberus vessel and renders the Virmire survivor in a comatose state.

A second Cerberus ship comes and rescues Ash/Kaidan. They report to TIM that Project Virmire is ago, but once they wake up, it will take a lot of convincing. TIM has a plan.

The Virmire survivor wakes up during the time of ME2. Confused, they recognize this is not an Alliance facility and definitely no Council race facility. They put two and two together and realize it's Cerberus and try to escape and then they are sedated.

They are brought before TIM. Ash/Kaidan swears they would rather die than join Cerberus. Explains they know about Admiral Kahoku, the Rachni, Thorian and Husk experiments and most importantly Akuze.

TIM explains it easily. That they were a necessary evil. and tells them how easily their near death experience could've been avoided if those monstrosities were weaponized against Saren. The Admiral knew too much and Akuze, Shepard/Toombs got justice and Dr Wayne was put on a very public trial that damaged Cerberus reputation.

Then the manipulation begins.

If it's Ashley, then TIM uses the fact that he knew and personally served under her grandfather. Shepard, The Alliance and the Council left her for dead and acts as if the Reapers don't exist, as if the very reason she went missing never happened. Says things how "I've seen your records and seen you in action. If you were there, Shanxi never would've fallen and the Williams family would be the most prestigious family in the Alliance and you would've been the first human Spectre, not Shepard." "You were looked down on the Alliance, the family that was cursed because the good general wanted to protect and save lives. Little do you know, the Turians were looking for something on Shanxi. Saren was there, and his brother" Ashley looks curious. He has her. He explains his story with General Williams, Desolas Arterius and Saren. Desolas indoctrinated for Turian supremacy, leading Saren down the path he would take and what would be the foundation of Cerberus. Ashley asks one simple question. "When do I start?"

If it's Kaidan, TIM uses Kaidan's past against him. His righteous murder of Vyrnnus that he was shunned and how gifted he was. Admitting Cerberus should have snatched him when they had the chance. "Had we had you, you could've provided our failed experiment the guidance she needed(obviously I'm talking about Jack here) then goes on to tell him how the Alliance abandoned him, Shepard has forsaken him and worse of all, they all deny the existence of the Reapers. Kaidan refuses to believe him and snaps. Cerberus agents are prepare to stun him, TIM wavers them off. Kaidan gives off a look that he wants revenge. On The Alliance, The Council and Shepard. "They will all pay."

Ashley would be turned into Cerberus' Super Soldier. Wearing the Cerberus Assault Armor(the armor WE wear, not the shitty ME3 grunt armor), but with the Shade/Nightmare/Spirit helmet.

Kaidan becomes a mix of Phantom and Phoenix. The ultimate human biotic, he is what Jack could've became if they kept her.

Their goals would be to eliminate high valued targets for Cerberus. Killing key Alliance figures, people who are close to cracking down on Cerberus(example, Dr Wayne was publicly assassinated and after Toombs threat to get a merc team to hunt Cerberus down, they kill him) killing Alien leaders and a whole bunch of targets that stand in Cerberus's way to control the Reapers.

Or in a different scenario. The explosion nearly destroys the ship carrying them in, causing them to be husks of their former selves.

Cerberus in this scenario would experiment on them to make them the ultimate soldier for Cerberus. They would essentially become The Winter Soldier of Mass Effect.

it would’ve been far more impactful if the Cerberus assassin was masked, and later revealed to be a heavy cyborg’d and indoctrinated Ashley/Kaiden, whichever you left behind on Virmire. There would be a reaction if you bring the one you saved with to encounter the one we did not save on Thesia.

But storywise.

The first time you meet the Cerberus Assassin, is on Earth. We see this shadow stalking you and Anderson and as we’re leaving Earth, we see Kai Leng killing Anderson. With Shepard swearing revenge.

Throughout ME3, Ash/Kaidan would be stalking Shepard. Causing trouble as we encounter Cerberus. Trying to kill Eve, attempting to abduct the Grissom Academy students, activating the bomb on Tuchunka and the attempt on the Council.

When we finally confront them on Priority Citadel, they kill Thane and omni-slash their mask off. We get the reveal. Shepard is shocked, Ash/Kaidan hesitates after hearing Shepard utter their name.

It would also help to explain his inexplicable plot armor. Rather than surviving against the onslaught of Shepard due to plot reasons, he would not be killed, as Shepard is haunted by not being able to save them, Ash/Kaidan uses that as the opportunity to take him down on Thessia.

Because Ashley did not undergo her character arc, I could imagine Ashley saying things like "I should have been the First Human Spectre, a hero for humanity, not aliens." "I am the hero humanity deserves" "I will make my grandfather proud." "The Alliance has failed humanity and my family" If you romanced Ashley and accidentally left her behind "You BASTARD...I loved you and you LEFT ME TO DIE!"

With Kaidan I can see him saying things like "I am the peak of Biotic perfection." "The Alliance betrayed me. You left me and the Council deserves to die" "Vyrnaus deserved to die, I know that now." "You will pay for leaving me to die" If you didn't save Grissom Academy. "I personally went to Grissom Academy, took those kids and made them like me. Subject Zero never should have left us, now she is ascended to perfection."(if you got Jack's loyalty, Jack begs Shepard to kill her) If you romanced Kaidan and accidentally left him behind "You're just like Rahna. You left me and you betrayed me. After I kill you, I'll kill Rahna."

If we go with the Winter Soldier concept, then it's just TIM manipulating them like a puppet. However periodic exposure to Shepard and the other VS makes them remember

However, if you bring the other Virmire survivor with to Thessia, then there is a chance to turn Ash or Kaidan back to the light.

This works better if you romanced the other Virmire survivor, but if not it works the same result. You can only save Ash/Kaidan if you bring the other VS.

With a charm/intimidate option, Ash/Kaidan follows Shepard's lead and talks down Ash/Kaidan. and in the end they break through their indoctrination and apologize for everything.

Otherwise, they would have to be killed and could not be saved. I don’t think that convincing him to commit suicide like Saren or TIM would work, because it would be too similar to the TIM suicide not too long, and would lose impact because of it. They would have to be fought and killed one last time in combat, and have a tragic end with Ash/Kaidan cursing Shepard while Shepard looks on them with despair or disdain.

If you saved them, then Ash/Kaidan would board the Citadel with you. And when TIM tries to talk you into controlling the Reapers, Ash/Kaidan will shoot him dead.

If Winter Soldier scenario, then both Shepard and OVS can break through and save them. They join us and depending on your war assets, if high, they kill TIM without incident. If low, they sacrifice themselves and gives Shepard the opening to kill TIM.

We talk, have a moment. If it's Kaidan, they talk about the good old days with the original Normandy. Jenkins, Dr Chakwas and Anderson. "Oh Shepard, I'm so sorry" Shepard forgives them. If romanced, they talk about the relationship they were going to start and Shepard says "we can have a cup of coffee and see where things go from there" "I'd like that, Shepard". If Ashley, they reminisce on meeting on Eden Prime, the Normandy, their almost relationship with Shepard saying "we can finish where we left off" "Oh Shepard" and remembering why she volunteered to stay behind.

Alternatively since Ash/Kaidan wasn't shot, they save Shepard. They call the other survivor and rescue Shepard as the Crucible is about to be fired off if destroyed is chosen. If you choose Control, then Ash/Kaidan shoots themselves because they can't bare to live after Shepard fulfills TIM's desires. If Synthesis is chosen then they will be on the Normandy with the other crew members.

[sewermageboy]

playing Stray Gods and Apollo has captivated me with his sad dad swag and his general lack of will to live.

But apparently he's voiced by Troy Baker, so I now have to live with the agony of knowing he shares a voice with fucking Kai Leng.

[spacevixen2024]

[notmeowse]

[mass-effect-anonymous]

CONFESSION:

I always really liked the idea of switching Kai Leng out for a brainwashed/resurrected Virmire sacrifice. It would have been melodramatic, sure, but the implications of Cerberus using the knowledge of the Lazarus project to intentionally manipulate Shepard once again with someone from their past is really intriguing. Plus, it would have really added to the horror aspect they were going with in ME3.

[meggannn]

mass effect + the onion (14)

screencap credit

[sonpat-rides-again]

Cringe fail assassin

[housederiva]

Before you vote please keep in mind that a blorbo isn't necessarily your favorite romance option The two with the highest percentages move on to the next round!

-> Master Post

[angstyastro]

Kai Leng v. Shepard.png

[fontofnothing]

Mass Effect 3 test run update: I have never not taken that renegade interrupt.

[perryabbott]

Mass Effect 3: Legendary Edition (2021) dev. BioWare

[dalekofchaos]

Fixing Kai Leng

The problem with Kai Leng is Mac Walters desperately tried to convince us that Leng was Shepard's ultimate equal when he could barely hold his own against an aged Anderson and a Drell with terminal cancer and in the end he was a tryhard egdelord that would make Kylo Ren embarrassed.

The solution to this is make Leng deeply connected to Shepard's personal history. Making him be a ghost from Shepard's past with a personal connection would have made this character much better. His backstory could change with whatever your selections are for Shepard.

If you are Earthborn, you are both members of the 10th Street Reds

If you are a Spacer, Leng and Shepard's families served together and Shepard and Leng were childhood friends

If you are a Colonist, Leng was Shepard's childhood friend and was in the rubble with Shepard

If you are a War Hero, Leng was wounded as Shepard held off the Batarians during Elysium. Leng's survival and stand against the Batarians attack on Elysium caught Cerberus' interest.

If you are Sole Survivor, you both survived an ambush on Akuze. Only Leng wasn't taken to be experimented on. Leng was recruited into joining Cerberus for his survival. Cerberus convinces Leng that the Alliance left him for dead and so did Shepard. Leng's sense of betrayal and human supremacy leads him to joining Cerberus

If you are Ruthless, you and Leng slaughtered the Batarians on Torfan without mercy, The sense of ruthlessness inspired Leng's cold hearted exterior and human supremacist beliefs and led him to Cerberus.

Where do we go from here? Replace Jacob with Kai Leng. And the books would be his ventures with Cerberus(but less as a cringe tryhard) Jacob ultimately added to nothing. He's so fucking boring and unlikable and turns into the stereotypical black guy who cheats on you.

Kai Leng's motivation when it comes to Cerberus would be this. I would say he was a young man who wanted to serve the human race and the alliance but when he saw that the politics of the Alliance kept holding him back from doing the right thing or the greater good,  he saw that Cerberus was the only ones helping humanity.

Remove the cyber ninja aesthetic and combine Soldier, Adapt and Engineer to make him a Cerberus super soldier.

As for Kai Leng. A Leng who has personal history with Shepard has potential, plus Leng being indoctrinated with Cerberus human supremacist beliefs, but also somebody with a moral conscience when it comes to the missing human colonists, somebody emotional that you could agree with or understand, contrasting Miranda as a starting squadmate.

Through the course of ME2, he would grow on you as the rest of the squadmates of ME2 did. His loyalty mission would be centered around our background. If we're a War hero, we hunt down the Batarians who survived Elysium. If we are Sole Survivor, we hunt down the Alliance officer who led their squad to Akuze. If we're Ruthless, we deal with Batarians who want revenge for Torfan who plan on giving human hostages to the Collectors. Throughout their talks, Shepard can convince Leng that Cerberus is wrong and eventually Leng's loyalty with Cerberus begins to wavers, especially after TIM sends them to be ambushed in the Collector ship.

Leng started completely loyal to Cerberus, but when he works with Shepard he sees that Cerberus is wrong, but stayed loyal, but also loyal to Shepard. When The Illusive Man asks Shepard to give the base over and when he/she refuses, he asks Leng to force it. This is where Kai Leng finally stands up to Cerberus. Kai Leng all his life, all he wanted to do is serve and protect humanity. He sees that the humans of the Terminus Systems were proceed into becoming a human Reaper and was horrified and when the man he looked up to for years says we should use what killed the humans, he gets the message we should sacrifice humanity and the costs of uplifting humanity. Kai Leng has had enough. He sees through the illusion of Cerberus and with Miranda tells TIM to fuck off and he stays loyal to Shepard.

Between the events of ME2 and ME3, when Shepard betrays Cerberus, they realize that Kai Leng is probably the strongest link between Shepard and themselves, and try to use him against Shepard. Not as lucky as Miranda, TIM does not want to lose Leng so he captures and indoctrinates Leng, making him an agent, and reprogramming his mind to become somebody he was not before, working mindlessly for TIM, as his first lieutenant in combat, much like Bucky Barnes, we have an emotional connection to Kai Leng before seeing him as a villain in ME3.

The first time we'd see Leng in ME3 is on Earth. We see this lead Cerberus Phantom in a unique mask stalking you and Anderson. And as we're leaving Earth, we see Kai Leng killing Anderson. With Shepard swearing revenge.

Throughout ME3, Leng would be stalking Shepard. Causing trouble as we encounter Cerberus. Trying to kill Eve, activating the bomb on Tuchunka and the attempt on the Council.

He would become the same Kai Leng that we all know and hate but we would be able to sympathize with him more.

When we finally confront him in Priority Citadel, we face him and omni-slash his mask off. We get the reveal. Shepard is shocked, Leng hesitates after hearing Shepard utter his name. Maybe in the Cerberus coup on the Citadel, if his loyalty mission was completed in ME2, he would not kill Thane, out of respect of a former squadmate, and regain conscious thought again for a brief moment to spare him. 

It would also help to explain his inexplicable plot armor. Rather than surviving against the onslaught of Shepard due to plot reasons, he would not be killed, as Shepard still sympathizes with him, and doesn't want to kill him, sparing him and letting him escape, or not being able to fully focus, hoping there's a little bit of the real Kai Leng still in there.

Of course this would lead to multiple outcomes towards the end of the game. He could either be recruited back or un-indoctrinated somehow, but for a good plot he would only be able to turn good again and rejoin the squad way too late in the game, maybe in the last third of the game, like Legion in ME2. Bonus points if you can romance him as Femshep, would still make a better romance carrying on to ME3 than Jacob.

Otherwise, he would have to be killed and could not be saved. I don't think that convincing him to commit suicide like Saren or TIM would work, because it would be too similar to the TIM suicide not too long, and would lose impact because of it. He would have to be fought and killed one last time in combat, and have a tragic end most likely.

If we saved Kai Leng, he would've been transported on the beam. Depending on your reputation and war readiness, Leng can break through the indoctrination and kill The Illusive Man or Leng kills himself, which distracts TIM and Shepard shoots The Illusive Man. If Leng broke through and killed TIM, he apologizes for killing Anderson and being unable to control himself. If you were just friends they hug, if they were LI, they kiss. Leng's fate would be either being aboard the Normandy to put Shepard's plaque on the memorial or finding Shepard's body and bringing him back and then we'd get Shepard putting Anderson's plaque on the Normandy.

SO that's how I would've handled Kai Leng. Making him more connected to Shepard and less of a tryhard edgelord that they made him to be in canon.