#Izzy was wrong and Ed was right

[darkfire359]

Izzy, Ed, and Apologies

Reminder that the 2x8 dialogue between Ed and Izzy included the lines:

Izzy: "I'm sorry, I was terrible to you."

Ed: "No, I'm sorry. What are you apologizing for? I should be the one apologizing."

In particular, "What are you apologizing for?" doesn't have any potential of Ed merely forgiving Izzy or downplaying Izzy's actions. Contrast it with "You don't need to apologize," or something similar, which would otherwise fit a very similar narrative beat. Ed literally does not think Izzy did anything to warrant an apology. The only person in canon who thinks Izzy deserved to lose his toes and leg is Izzy.

If you think that Izzy deserved what Ed did to him, you need to be able to say, "Ed was wrong and Izzy was right." Otherwise you're just disregarding Ed's feelings on the issue entirely.

[izzysillyhandsy]

I love the murder/suicide scene (and I've watched it far too many times), but I'm realizing more and more how incredibly cruel it is.

Izzy is always looking at Ed and Ed knows this (I saw ya - Course ya did), but Ed only grants Izzy those little glances, not more. When they are directly interacting, Izzy's eyes are on Ed's every expression like a laser beam - and Ed is distractedly looking out to the sea, turning his back to Izzy or looking at other things/people.

And then, in the middle of Izzy's worst nightmare, Ed comes in and really looks Izzy in the eyes for an eternity, soft light, so close, over the barrel of a gun. Looking more beautiful than ever, not the Kraken anymore. This is Ed, finally there with Izzy, totally in the moment - he's even holding his hand for a bit.

After all this time, Izzy finally gets Ed's undivided attention - but only because he wants Izzy to do something for him. The worst thing he's ever asked of him. The ultimate act of cruelty.

No wonder Izzy tries to kill himself.

(the only other time Izzy gets Ed's full attention is when Izzy is dying - those two really are closest in death, aren't they)

[sirtadcooper]

Izzy, you can't go. You can't leave me.

I wanna go.

[inconclusionray]

If I see one more "poor Izzy was in an abusive relationship for twenty years :'(" take I'm going to set this pirate ship on fire.

[mysteriouslybluepirate]

Hey guys, as a fandom when we revive izzy can we wait a few weeks before we do the 'comes back wrong' trope? Just so we have some time to heal? I'm just asking the collective. I know izzy coming back with fucked up memories is an amazing concept but we're all VERY fragile right now, and I personally don't know if I can take it.

[thelosercenter]

okay obligatory Thoughts™️

with this new izzy clip has come so much ed hate and i dont like it. like yeah hes made some bad decisions but i feel like theyre exaggerating it a bit

i have a really hard time beleiving that ed actually has cut off two more of izzys toes at this point. like, that just doesnt seem plausible to me.

idk, maybe im delulu, but i cant see it.

[ourflagmeansgayrights]

Ed did NOTHING wrong making Izzy eat his own toe, Ed's just committing to the bit. It's not his fault Izzy doesn't know the rules of improv

no actually izzy did a good job yes-anding to the toe scene. chewed swallowed and even got a boner. violent blackbeard is izzy’s favorite bit to commit to

ed is committing to the bit in this scene but the whole show he’s been like “can we PLEASE do a different bit this one is so stale” and izzy was like “no fuck you” until eventually ed was like “alright fine. ✂️✂️✂️”

[leatherbookmark]

"lucius is wrong, izzy talking about losing his leg to a shark because he was 'dangling his feet over the edge of the ship' is not him coping, but acknowledging that everything that happened to ed was entirely his fault! AND ALSO it was him comparing ed to an animal, #typical"

[petrifiedcrange]

Izzy was supposed to be the new captain of the Revenge, to finally live for himself among people who truly cherish him after spending literal decades serving Ed and living for him,

not this bullshit

not him dying just so Ed can have an excuse to stop being Blackbeard

[arsenicflame]

adding onto this with developed thoughts

I do largely think the processing he has done is about the leg, and not his relationship with Ed, and that he's conflating one with the other, acting like because he's 'fine' now with having lost his leg, that also means he's fine with it being Ed who did it to him.

I don't think his relationship with Ed is in any way fixed because of this (I think the fact that they have very specifically not had a single conversation, not been in a single shot together since is a huge signifier of that) its more that this one (very large) aspect is something Izzy has managed to put into the past with the help of the crew.

I think Izzy's known Ed long enough to not be expecting any further apologies (past his non specific non apology to the crew) and knows from here on out he needs to deal with his feelings on his own, needs to learn to move on and move past if he wants to stay here (and oh, he wants to stay here now)

Izzy's been cleaning up Ed's messes for so long, its a hard habit to kick- what's one more? what's one more when its him?

i think the reason izzy can be so blasé about his relationship with ed is not because hes taken to blaming a shark instead, but because hes actually already done a lot of the processing in the previous episode.

hes mourned his leg, hes had his drunk crying rants. hes gone through the five stages of grief. and then? the crew reaches out to him, offers him their support. they make him a new leg, they nominate him their new figurehead. when he stands there on the prow of the ship, leg on, letter in hand, thats his acceptance, thats his moving on.

[crimson-and-clover-1717]

‘Stede is Fearless’

This comment made by Rhys Darby at the con just won’t leave me.

It was something he stated quite emphatically, but then didn’t get the time to follow up properly. It was in response to an audience question about when Stede realises the man in his closet is actually Blackbeard, he isn’t afraid. I think that question is easy to answer because all Stede can ever see is Ed. But Rhys’ response was about the wider characterisation of Stede ‘…you have to remember, Stede is fearless’. It affected me so much I blogged in real-time.

So, Rhys played Stede with that in mind. And it’s an odd thing because Stede is often very, very afraid. Quaking-in-his-boots, crying-his-eyes-out afraid. But being ‘fearless’ isn’t the absence of fear. It’s living your life, your truth, in spite of it.

Here is my non-exhaustive ‘Stede is Fearless’ list:

Stede is fearless when he leaves his dead marriage (despite the circumstances in which he does so)

Stede is fearless when he decides to captain a pirate crew and ship without any previous experience of the ocean

Stede is fearless when he believes he can change the culture of piracy to one of kindness

Stede is fearless when he announces himself ‘The Gentleman Pirate’

Stede is fearless when he meets Ed which is why he cannot see ‘Blackbeard’

Stede is fearless when he learns history’s greatest pirate was going to murder him, and then offers the hand of friendship

Stede is fearless when he duels Izzy - I mean what the actual fuck was Stede thinking here?

Stede is fearless when he takes history’s most brilliant tactician on a treasure hunt with a fake map

Stede is fearless when he stands apart from everyone in his disdain of Calico Jack, and is proven right

Stede is fearless when he takes care of the crew’s emotions over his own broken heart when Ed leaves with CJ

Stede is fearless when he takes responsibility for Nigel’s murder

Stede is fearless when he tells Ed he doesn’t have to sign the Act of Grace to save him

Stede is fearless when he repeatedly asks Ed what the plan is for escape

And yes, Stede is fearless when he realises he cannot go through with the China plan, and returns home to face what he believes is the horror of who he is

He is fearless (eventually) in putting to rights the mess he left behind in Bridgetown

…in returning to find Ed even though he has doubts about his own adequacy

…in rescuing the crew from the Red Flag as Ed lies dead

…in loving Ed back to life

…in following Ed in his banishment

…in finding a way back with the crew for Ed

…in offering Izzy an olive branch and validation

…in respecting Ed’s autonomy in their relationship

…in dealing with Ned Low himself to protect Ed and the crew

…in taking the initiative in consummating his and Ed’s relationship

…in standing up to Zheng

…in offering unconditional love when Ed returns

Is he clumsy, sometimes wrong or misguided? Definitely. Part of Stede’s beauty is his messiness.

But Stede is terrified throughout most of his actions, and bloody does it anyway.

Because Stede is fearless.

[izzysillyhandsy]

how he aggressively stomps forward and then assumes this proper recital position

like in a school play or something

[some-anonymity-preferred]

with special thanks to @scarrletmoon’s commentary here, see tags

why do so many people keep calling ed izzy's abuser? I thought it was kind of funny how wrong they were at first because I love being right but at this point I feel like, if you really believe that why do you even like this show? where the main love interest is a violently abusive indigenous man? that sounds boring as shit. what would possess the writers of the show for them to make such an awful decision?

but then I think, if this many people believe it does that mean I'm the one who's wrong? or is it that the creators fumbled that storyline when they should have been clearer about it? or maybe it's just that most people on here have had their reading comprehension scorched away by Sherlock Holmes conspiracy theories and Steven Universe discourse. I can't tell. sometimes I think the internet may have been a mistake.

No they're wrong here's what's going on. People all read this shitty fic called Hell or High Water where Ed was everything the Izzy stans say he was and then instead of realizing that Ed is sad everyone regressed into thinking that the Kraken Era TM was going to be incredibly violent, like serial killing blond men because they look like Stede levels of violence. Even if you didn't read HoHW you saw art or read fic from people who had engaged with this fic and succumbed to it's premise. So there's been this background radiation of misunderstanding what the Kraken is on the fandom for several months. So inevitably when Ed did some mild violence and then attempted suicide by threatening murder until the crew took matters into their own hands, which is not abuse or torture by any stretch, btw, it's a murder-suicide at worst (I say at worst because I consider it fuckery-suicide I don't think Ed was trying to kill people I think he was trying to force them into a situation where they thought it was kill or be killed so that they would choose to kill him, but that is my interpretation and you are free to think it's a botched murder-suicide I have no problem with that), which, murder is something the show has never condemned and if it did it would be horribly inconsistent. So anyway, Ed's whole Kraken Era was categorized in the show by him being sad and doing so many drugs and begging someone please god anyone to kill him and trying to break Ned Low's record out of the evil boredom, but because it had a murder-suicide element to it and Izzy's toes were getting removed and he waved a gun around at everyone once (in a way that felt to me like he was trying and failing to work up the nerve to blow his own brains out but I digress) people who liked HoHW and were mad that people had called it out were like "see hes being violent HoHW author vindicated" as if anything Ed did rose to the level of that fic

And you want to know how I know this read is bullshit? Because when I watch the show with people who don't read fic or interact with the fandom and then I gauge their reactions without showing my hand they all implicitly understand that Ed is reacting to Izzy in a way appropriate to how pirate captains react to threats from subordinates. The spectrum of reactions has been from "hey isn't it weird how Ed was the Kraken because his dad was abusive and now he's the kraken because of Izzy? Maybe there's something there but idk" to "I don't think you can apply the logic of domestic abuse to a pirate captain and first mate but also Izzy had it coming" to "I cannot feel bad for Izzy after last season, I'm sorry." To "lmao Izcel" and I've showed this show to roughly everyone I know. The only thing I can conclude from the fact that people who don't engage with OFMD fic almost unilaterally thinking that Izzy is in the wrong and then coming online to see people thinking the opposite is that Izzy as victim and Ed as abuser is pure fanon, like how Stede is a cinnamon roll who talks like Azeriphael.

But anyway yeah you're completely right about the fact that this would be a bad show if they decided to make Ed into a domestic abuser. I don't want to watch a rom com about a domestic abuser falling in love and I don't want a show that decided to make it's indigenous lead abusive when the stereotype of indigenous men as abusers is still to this day used as an excuse to separate indigenous children from their families and put them with white Christians in order to erase their culture. Good thing OFMD didn't make Ed abusive, so I still like the show.

[shiplessoceans]

I am seeing some garbage takes out there so quick reminder:

Izzy himself doesn't hold a grudge for what happened to his leg because he fuelled the fire that took it.

Izzy knows he suffered the consequences of feeding the darkness and doubt and misery he saw in Ed.

If Stede's leaving led Ed to a cliff, Izzy was the friend who should have helped him and instead he shoved him over the edge and broke him. The man Ed has known longer than anyone in his life, his 'only family', severed the last hope Ed had that he was worth anything without 'Blackbeard'.

Izzy trained a shark to viciously kill... Blackbeard says you taught him everything he knows... tormented him in his weakest moment...This is Blackbeard, Not some namby pamby in a silk gown pining for his boyfriend...and then dangled his legs in the water. Naturally, the shark took his leg.

As Izzy says: 'Served me right, too'.

Which is why people being so furious on his behalf and acting like Ed is an abusive monster is to invalidate Izzy having any agency at all.

Do you also blame Ed for the murder of his father and think he's a bloodthirsty monster?

Or can you recognise that the cycle of abuse and violence corrupted and traumatized him and that his father shares a portion of the blame for his own death?

Perhaps it's more cut and dried in that scenario because people haven't imprinted on Ed's father?

Izzy is not blameless in the loss of his leg and he would be the first to tell you that. He is a complex human who has made mistakes and his whole arc this season was about him reconciling, owning his mistakes and being his true authentic self anyway. And he did it. Fuck yeah.

"BUT ED NEVER APOLOGISED".

Izzy wouldn't have accepted it if he had.

Ed said 'Sorry about your leg', knowing Izzy wouldn't accept a larger apology. His response was to 'fuck off' as it is. Izzy Hands will never accept a full apology or genuine word of kindness and he shut down Ed's attempts because he didn't want or need it.

Izzy's last act on the planet was to let Ed know he's sorry for breaking him. For feeding him to the darkness so he could have 'Blackbeard' to give him his purpose in life when really, Ed had needed a friend. He apologized to remind Ed that he is loveable just as he is. He wants to undo the damage he did.

To love a character is to respect his right to be a fuck-up and own his mistakes. And to let him learn to accept himself despite those mistakes.

This season made me love Izzy. And I am sad he's dead. And I love that he got to redeem himself, find family and a sense of belonging and help Ed heal when he couldn't always help himself to.

You can feel how you want to feel about the ending.

But to sit back and blast creatives for 'Doing it wrong' because you can't process your emotions without projecting it onto others?

Izzy would be disappointed in you, the same way he was disappointed in Stede for picking a fight with Zheng instead of handling his emotions about losing Ed.

"Oh Bonnet, no..."

[asneakyfox]

either you accept that ed decided to become the kraken purely on his own and nothing izzy did had any influence over it at all or you're saying izzy was forcing him at metaphorical gunpoint and ed had no choice at all and might as well have been mind controlled

either you acknowledge that izzy is a poor little meow meow who never did anything really wrong and played no role in any choice ed ever made or you're saying izzy is some sort of dark wizard who has been forcing ed his helpless prisoner to commit crimes against his will all along

either stede made a fully rational choice to abandon ed and walk back to bridgetown completely in his right mind or he literally blacked out and walked home in a fugue state

actions are either purely self-created or purely the result of irresistible external coercion and accordingly your responsibility for them is either 100% or 0%

i'm so tired of this guys what if human agency just isn't an all or nothing situation. what if that's a really boring way to look at practically any narrative. aren't you tired

[chuplayswithfire]

I have more thoughts on how and why the sex was a mistake. I will be thinking about this all week. All year.

Let's start with: the sex was consensual, they both wanted it, and that does not change that it was the wrong decision for their relationship in that moment. They should not have had sex! Ed is 100% correct and he is not running away when he says that! He is not just avoiding his feelings or getting cold feet, he is genuinely correct, and here's why:

They continue to be on different pages. They have not had a chance to talk it through. It's been like 2-3 max since Ed woke up from the Gravy Basket, and emotions are still running high. Even ignoring that they were just tortured in front of each other and that Stede killed a man right after Ed asked him not to, they were not in the same space emotionally regarding their relationship.

Fir one thing: Stede did *not* get his heartbroken (prior to this). He got his romantic affirmation. Season 1 was an entire arc leading to Stede realizing he is gay, that he is in love, that he is loved in return. For him, for HIM, sex is a natural next step, and we already knew he wanted it from how he deepened their kiss in episode 5. Their relationship itself is not a source of trauma for Stede; he loves Ed and he walked away from his old life to be with him, and now he found him again, and they've agreed to do it together, figure things out, his romantic hopes are realized.

And in that moment, adding to that background informations, is that Stede also wanted to avoid all his messy feelings by being physical. He was tortured and he watched Ed and his crew be tortured, he was insulted and had to listen to Ed be insulted, and he wanted to regain control and power by killing Ned Low, and removing the threat. That's where Stede's head is.

Ed, on the other hand, did get his heart broken and while the majority of what he's working through is about his self-hatred, his dissatisfaction with his career, and his desire to find a life that feels worth living, he is also dealing with a significant amount of trust issues with his relationship with Stede, because Stede left him. He has heard from Stede that he loves him, but Ed's deepest fear is that he's unlovable, and he hasn't gotten over that, or his hurt from how things went, in the like two days it's been.

But he loves Stede, and he's attracted to him, and he wants him, so when Stede initiates and manhandles him a bit and things get hot and heavy, he consents. He's all in, carried away by the moment.

And he regrets it.

He especially wasn't ready because Ed is a planner. I know we were all joking about how they definitely weren't going to take it slow and they were going to rush through, but I do genuinely think he meant it. Ed's natural state is as a planner and tactician, everything has an angle for him and even when he wants to just be simple, he always has a bajillion factors in mind that he's juggling, so we can be sure that Ed probably did very much have thoughts about how he wanted their first time to go, and what he wanted them to do and grow into as a relationship before they had sex, and instead they got tortured, Stede killed a man, and then they fucked in the aftermath.

Not bloody optimal indeed.

Now back to Stede: he is utterly unprepared for the idea that the sex could be a mistake because to and for him it was the natural next step in their relationship. This is his romantic fantasy is the thing; he was a cool brave pirate captain who made an enemy walk the plank in defense of his crew and his boyfriend, and then Ed came to him and Stede got to sweep him off his feet and shove him against the wall, kiss him, bring him to the bed, and pointedly shut the curtains on an audience that doesn't exist, followed by a lazy morning after with breakfast in bed.

So it probably hurts extra that Ed is like that was a mistake. This is literally him living his fantasy from episode 1, Ned Low even has facial hair and is mean to him like Izzy used to be. He could ignore all the realities of that situation, because he was living his fantasy, and Ed dragged them both out of fantasyland, back to the real world, where their relationship isn't fixed 100% and sex didn't change that.

They weren't on the same page. They still aren't, because they need to talk.