#Is just asshole amatonormative behaviour

[artemx746]

Richard Fucking Riordan: And this is the Hunters of Artemis; it’s a group that doesn’t have any romance at all! It’s only for girls though!

Me as an 11yo who was very unsure about their gender Identity but definitely knew that I really did not want to date:

[neuroglitch]

Sometimes my brain will choose an odd hill to die on.

I keep thinking of the stupid AITA post with the lobster fisherman.

I don't really care if it's real or whatever, but like I keep checking the notes and feeling genuine hurt from the complete confidence with which everyone pegs this guy as the asshole.

I feel like there's some huge cultural societal memo that I've missed bc they don't even explain what they mean for the most part and I'm left grasping at straws. Like there's some huge red flag that I'm missing.

But at the same time bc I can't find that huge red flag all I see is people being extremely judgmentally secure that someone is an asshole based on a few quirky statements that communicate zero ill intent or behaviour towards other people (at least not in a direct manner than I'm able to catch unto).

Like I know it's not that fucking deep, yet I keep checking back on the notes, and every day new people agree to see this obviously huge red flag that I can't see. And it makes me feel bad.

Because either I'm naive and blind to the implications. Or people are just a lot more narrow-minded and judgemental than I would assume, and automatically all agreeing on an extremely bad faith reading of a pretty straightforward statement. It makes me scared to describe my life or my thought processes.

[Everyone's always against amatonormativity and ableism and The Nuclear Family Unit or just normative bullshit in general, until the oddness takes a shape they don't immediately recognize as some alternative "accepted deviation", and then everyone's sooooooo secure in their vibe checks. Sigh. ]

[sunsetrose20]

I hate it so, so much when people assume I'm straight and then get upset at me because I'm not. And they ask me, "Why didn't you tell me? You should have told me!"

Umm... excuse me? Are you listening to yourself? Like, shut up, bitch, nobody told you to assume shit about me. Also, I literally wear an ace ring; it's not my fault your ignorant ass doesn't know what that means.

But, being serious, I don't actually care if people don't even know what being ace means, as long as:

1. They are willing to learn about it when they encounter it.

2. (following #1) Don't reply with something ignorant like, "Oh, don't worry, you'll find someone."

3. (and this is the important part, kids) Don't get upset for having their heteronormative assumptions disproven.

Another note: I also believe this behaviour is disgustingly amatonormative. Seriously, people. Society needs to learn that humans do not need to be involved with someone to be happy. Honestly, even if I weren't also aro, I think it would be a life choice not to have a romantic partner (because that's what people really mean, in my experience, despite the fact that I give no show of being interested). There are a million reasons why people choose not to be sexually or romantically involved with someone, and we need to normalise this. Hell, we also need to normalise that some people just don't feel platonic attraction either and stop treating it as an illness or other kind of defect.

Short version, though: DO NOT ASSUME. Like, seriously, dude. It'll make your life so much easier. Not just ours.

Now, before I depart, a kind shout out to all the assholes I've encountered with an acephobic stick shoved up their ass! FYI, I'll much rather lick a woman than you! Because, seriously, have you guys seen how smooth some women's skins are? Looks yummy.

Peace! ✌️

[jojotichakorn]

Hey Archer, idk if it’s just me but today’s episode of Star in my mind was very confusing and difficult for me. I’m referring to the whole one day boyfriend situation with Phoon and Daoneua. Why does Phoon chose to go through all this pain and misery when he knows his feelings aren’t being reciprocated. I found it hard to watch the ending scene with the kiss and the fighting coz it just hurt my heart 😭😭😭😭

it's all because phoon is a fucking selfish dick!! no sugarcoating it! like, he is clearly lying to neua and manipulating him. he has repeatedly used neua's inability to properly reject someone to his advantage, and the entire one day thing - especially the photo that he posted - is clearly to coerce neua into giving him a chance by creating all these incredibly weird and awkward situations.

i've kind of mentioned this before - khluen is very respectful of other people's boundaries, so much so that he can barely ever make any move or say anything unless he is absolutely sure he wouldn't be crossing those boundaries. and neua sees that as a flaw because it's kind of nice to have someone you like really "fight" for you and insist on being with you, even when you literally say "i WANT to move on", to which any normal fucking person would answer "if that's what you want, you should do it" regardless of their own feelings.

but i think this juxtaposition with phoon that we are seeing now especially shows very clearly why this kind of behaviour just doesn't work outside of someone's imagination, where the person who is so insistently approaching you is definitely someone you like and can basically read your mind.

phoon is just not a good person. but he is also playing into this very common stereotype of how you're meant to "chase" the person you like, insist on being with them. amatonormativity fucked us over in many ways, but my least favorite way personally is how normalized this weird, selfish, entitled, even stalker-y behaviour is when your feelings are not reciprocated or even when you just like someone. and that's actually not ok, but because we've all been taught that this is how you are meant to act and what you are meant to do, so many people do it and others want to experience it.

neua has never actually been in a relationship and he has been in love with someone for years, so he's definitely imagined thousands of scenarios and i bet all of them are unrealistic. and on top of that he feels kind of betrayed because his heart was broken, so there is this maybe even subconscious desire to see khluen really work for it, and also to just kick all the doors down just to get to neua.

instead, what neua got was a rather timid, soft-spoken, careful and respectful khluen who has a hard time navigating social interactions and can't read social queues for shit, so he just takes everything at face value and says really direct things that others would never say, and in my head that's a boy who you can easily build a wonderful and healthy relationship with. but he is not the protagonist of a tv show who will mistreat and abuse the person he loves in the name of love that we were taught to idealize when we were younger, so there is this clear disconnect in neua's head between what most media seems to portray as the actions of a man in love and what khluen is doing.

and coming back to phoon, he is much closer to that man who will do anything, say anything - just to be with the one he loves. and i think the essential role of phoon in the show is not to just have a fucking asshole who not only repeatedly crosses boundaries but puts on sunglasses and pretends he doesn't see that he's crossing them, but to have this image of a guy who's really "fighting" for it, which is seemingly what you are meant to do. and increasingly it's showing neua why that's absolutely fucked up, actually, and how it just doesn't feel good, makes you completely uncomfortable, and is a huge dick move in general. and why khluen's "i stop, step back and immidietly apologize if you so much as blink /exaggerated" attitude is much more preferable.

[saltyaro]

topsydead a réagi à votre billet “Arophobia and the ace community: a few bullet points”

I'm alloace. I haven't seen this behavior in other alloaces but it is concerning and I accept the call to action. It's clear that people don't understand the SAM and don't acknowledge aros. What can I do to help?

You probably don’t realize you see it because you’re not the...target? of arophobia, but I would be very surprised if you’ve actually never encountered it! Maybe you’re really lucky.

I’m glad you’re willing to challenge this habit, but I’m afraid I won’t be able to give you concrete advice. I’ll try though.

From my point of view, because ace people are oppressed under our society’s assumption that everyone feels sexual attraction, and are often seen as subhuman because of that, there’s this kinda desperate desire to be seen as still valuable “despite” the lack of sexual attraction. As a result, alloaces kinda rely on their romantic attraction to gain “approval” from other people and society. That’s because romance is seen as the most important thing in people’s lives, so, from an ace’s point of view, it makes sense to...double efforts, to “make up” for the lack of sexual attraction? I think it’s important to first realize “why” amatonormativity and arophobia are so rampant within alloace’s communities. Of course, that it’s something understandable, doesn’t mean it should stay that way. That’s my hypothesis on the matter: not necessarily that the alloaces’ arophobia is stronger than in the general population but rather, that the emphasis on romance and amatonormativity is pushed more obviously. If that makes sense. So, the arophobia is extremely visibly and harmful to us (especially because of our shared spaces).

So yeah that’s the way I do things, I try to understand the systems behind things. This is the first step, now what to do?

I’d say, try to train yourself to recognize the assumptions of romance. Try to do a parallel with the sexual assumptions, the systems are very similar. Not going to lie, this is gonna be difficult, because amatonormativity is very strongly ingrained in us, to the point where we perpetuate it without ill intent. It’s pretty sneaky. For an example, you can take the sentences like “we can still love!” as part of this shit. The concept of soulmates, is another instance (yes, even when people try to argue soulmates can be platonic, doesn’t change anything). Or, the constant invisibilization of aroaces/using them as tokens. Everyone’s different, but as a general way of thinking, it’s pretty disrespectful to assume aroaces prioritize their ace identity and will relate to alloace posts. Idk, I’m not ace (i used to identify as aroace though) so it may not be my place, but back when I was in the ace community, everything just seemed so...focused on being in a romantic relationship while ace. It’s not bad to have these resources, they’re needed, but if your blog/activism focuses on that, then it’s not “ace activism” but “alloace activism”. Nothing wrong with that, just, don’t pretend any ace can relate. Aroaces can’t, and I’m sure a lot of non-Sam aces can’t either. Basically, does the post (or anything of the sort) assume “ace” means “alloace”? If yes, then it’s alienating. 

Those behaviours are also harmful to non-ace aros, of course. Because we’re sibling-communities, and (allo?)aces have more visibility than us. If someone places romance over any other kind of relationship, this is amatonormative. Beware of that, don’t ignore it. Obviously no one can be on edge 24/24 but it would be nice to have some alloaces challenge those thoughts!

Basically, before you can do anything, I think it would be useful to read through some aro blogs! There’s mine of course, but I’m a non-sam aro so it could be cool to also read from aroaces and alloaros. We all have different experiences with the ace community. 

Challenging those thoughts takes a lot of work. Stop putting romance on a pedestal, challenge any relationship hierarchy that pretends to be universal - it’s fine if it’s personal I guess but not if it’s supposed to be the norm - and challenge the very idea that what makes us humans is love. Regardless of the type of love I’d say. 

As another example, when you have an ace character in some kind of media with no explicit romanticism...don’t assume they’re alloace. If you know the content the character it’s from, read critically. Maybe there’s no answer but there often is. I’m thinking Jughead, who’s either non-sam ace or aroace, but without romantic feelings anyway. When shitterdale straightwashed him a lot of people were like “he can still be ace! We can still love!” when...yeah, but he’s supposed to be aro to. The “ace” part wasn’t what we were worried about. Same thing happened with (I think, don’t take my word on that) Raphael from Sh/adow hunte/rs, and again, the alloace community rejoincing for the ace rep. How shitty is it to rejoice over the erasure of an aro character? This second example wasn’t great rep from the start apparently, but yeah. Still an asshole move. I also think it’s important to be critical of how all ace rep either is, or is washed to be, alloace rep. Alloace rep is cool and important, but not at the expense of aroaces. Also, I think it’s worth mentioning that aro characters aren’t made to be alloaros so there’s definitely a double standard. Bo/jack for an example, “became” alloace when a lot of aroaces related to him at first. That’s what he was coded as but the ace community pushed against it and the creator decided to make him allo (probably in good faith!). 

So yeah, maybe try to react when alloaces get angry when people draw pride art and. Draw the ace flag as a single person, because again “ace” doesn’t mean “alloace”. The “ace” community is shared by allo aces, non-sam aces, and aroaces. 

Please be aware if you see di/s/k h/orse things, when ex/clusio/nism is discussed, of the aromantic erasure that always happens. Even when the ex/cl/u mentions aros, the inc/lu’s answer systematically ignores that part. There was this survey last year, on this topic, and it was shown that people who include aces do not necessarily include aros. Of course, I didn’t see any alloace mention that, even though they showed the results to be all “see everyone/most people think(s) we belong!”. Without mentioning that very important and very telling aspect. I would have loved it if an alloace had mentioned it, and had tried to open a discussion about it! But I didn’t see it happen. I know this is a very specific example, but basically, I think what would be nice, would be for some alloaces to stick for us aros whenever something like that happens. I’m not saying to actively look for such things, but if you follow ace blogs, you’re going to see it happen. 

Oh and also, I don’t know what’s your stance on this, so I’m going to write it just in case but. “Aspec” means aro + ace. It comprehends everyone: non-sam aro, non-sam aces, aroaces, allo aros, and allo aces. It’s not the same as “acespec”! It’s really erasing us aros whenever someone uses “aspec” to mean “acespec”, it’s alienating us from our own community. There’s the aro community, the ace community for our specific, different needs, but the aspec community is supposed to be our shared community so. Definitely “call out” (by that I mean comment on) people who do that! They may not have bad intents but the result is still here, and it’s just. Spreading everyday, and pushing aros further under the bus.

So yeah all it boils down to is, try and comment/reblog posts that antagonize us? Within the limits of your energy and mental health of course. And maybe try to spread knowledge about what amatonormativity is (I have a tag but you can also google it, there’s an easy to find definition), why it’s harmful, and how it operated, within the ace community. As an alloace, maybe you’ll get more attention than aros (whether we’re also ace or not, people don’t listen to us). I personally think it would benefit everyone (including alloaces) to get rid of amatonormativity but for now, pointing it out - whether for yourself or in a more public manner - should be a good beginning. 

I...hope this answers your question?