#If we consider how it affected the mantises

[mouse-drawings]

Three bugs climb up to the top, but how many can come down?

I have a few ideas for this, but as I was thinking about it, I got curious.

[ruthlesslistener]

If we consider the separate corpse dumping pits in a vacuum yes soul master would be worse, but PK was the one who created a kingdom with a class divide that allowed soul master to snatch up folks without being noticed. Whether he intended it or not, PK ended up enabling soul master. I'm not phrasing this right, I know PK once aware of soul master's actions disproved of them but that doesn't change that every flaw in hallownest's structure, from social to economic, is a result of his negligence.

I dunno at least that's how I felt playing the game. At every misfortune I met from bosses to the structural issues with the caverns (crumbly floors, thorns, spikes, why is there so many spikes???) I cursed the creator of this kingdom, so I personally view the sins of his people as his own sins, or at least view him as partially responsible

Anyways all of this could have been avoided if PK just used his small form to become a civil engineer instead of a god king

... actually the structural issues with the caverns might have been worse if he did that nevermind

(branching away from the main topic I Do wonder what a mortal disguised PK would be like. The only god we seen in HK attempt something like that is Grimm and even then all he does is simply not advertise himself as a god, he very much does not attempt to blend in into the mortal populace, perhaps aware of how his eerie aura would prevent him from doing so. Would any of the higher beings be able to truly blend with mortals if they wished? Or would that be impossible?)

?? Anon, PK had little to no influence on the society of Hallownest beyond the most basic shit like 'throw your entire self into your purpose until you die'. Like yeah I think he encouraged learning about the soul arts and engineering, bc thats kinda his whole thing, but what's even MORE his thing is just..not participating in the society of Hallownest at all, to the point where people speculated about what he looked like because they just straight-up never saw their king. Hallownest's society and social class systems is something that likely was inherent to the beetle tribe before he became their god, which is something that I assumed because a.) There are multiple tribes in Hallownest with their own unique cultures that aren't entirely because of their gods, b.) He's the polar opposite of the Radiance, who obsessively exerts control, c.) He actively formed treaties with tribes that his own populace considered uncivilized savages and beasts (the mantises and spiders), and d.) His own Great Knights are formed of social rejects like Ogrim and foreigners like Ze'mer. Pair that with the fact that the retainers in the White Palace are clearly noblebugs that lend nothing but empty minds and inane chatter who are only useful if exploited for soul or killed, and it paints a very clear picture that PK was not at all involved in the social structure of his own kingdom. In fact, he's probably the exact opposite. And that's not neglect, per se- though he is neglectful- that's just more proof that the people of Hallownest are much more than which faction are aligned with which other god. PK had nothing to do with it. To gods, mortals are pretty much livestock, so I assumed that he paid about as much attention to the social ills of Hallownest as a farmer would for a chicken's pecking order- sure, maybe it seems alarming and like something you should fix, but really they're just gonna keep going at it, so why bother if it doesn't affect the quality of the food you're getting out of them? The Beetle Tribe had a pretty clear hierarchy that resulted in a lot of social ills, but considering the fact that the bugs of Hallownest canonically worshipped the Void before the Radiance came around, I think its safe to say that the hierarchy there was around for centuries before the Pale King took over. He just built the city that they lived in- and if the donations fountain is anything to go by, he did try to siphon off the economic issues at least a bit. He had very, very little influence on their social life

I'm not exactly defending the dead baby pit here, but PK didn't enable the Soul Master at all- he actively opposed him, bc again, he's losing chickens. Contrasting the horror of the Soul Master's slaughter to the dead baby pit is supposed to make you wonder whether mass murder for salvation is really any better than mass murder for power, and the fact that PK was horrified and disgusted by the Soul Master's body count while piling up his own also gives us more context on how he must have felt about the vessel pit- aka, terrible. It highlights the disconnect between the two while also pointing out that both were terrible no matter what their intentions were.

He might have tried to make it seem like he had everything under control, but he very much did not, so pinning all the blame on him when he was only one facet of all the shit going wrong in a very divided world just seems kinda, idk...shitty to me. It takes blame away from the Soul Master, who was the pinnacle of a powerful rich man throwing others under the bus to get what he wanted, to pin it on PK. I certainly am not trying to defend PK here- everyone knows he fucked up- but pinning all of the ills of Hallownest onto only one guy takes away a lot of the nuance and character of the people he was trying to protect, people who were already reduced to livestock and body counts in the war between him and the Radiance, so personally for me that's really :/. He's an important part of Hallownest's downfall, but he's really not that important

[busghost]

I'm gonna be honest this is an odd question to ask cause I want to make OC child of Kiana and Mei.

If they somehow had a child together would it be possible for the child to inherit some form of their parents' Herrscher abilities or would they not inherit anything and end up having to use something like the Kaslana ice powers or awaken their stigmata like Durandal did?

I don't know how to go about it and I want to try my best to stick to the lore as best I can

We only really have three things to go off of for this in lore.

The MANTISes are sterile due to being fucked up with their genes and being part Honkai beast. People with stigmata can have children but they are much less affected by the Honkai than Herrschers are. This doesn't seem too related however Herrschers are aren't considered to be exactly human, like MANTISes. And Herrschers When Siegfried sliced off Sirin's arm and it was pink inside like a Honkai beast instead of flesh. So it's up to you to what degree Herrscher's are fucked up and inhuman.

The only example we have of something close to a child of a Herrscher are the clones of Welt Joyce and Sirin/Kiana and that's not exactly children. The clones with Kiana/Sirin genetic material were in a vegetative state until Otto put the Core of the Void inside K423. Actually making test tube babies using Herrscher's/MANTISes seems quite viable seeing as that's how Kiana and Adam Kaslana were made.

That basically leaves the Welt clones as our only useful example for people fucked up by the Honkai having children. Welt Joyce clones seemed to have a very weird iteration of the Herrscher of Reason's powers in that they only were able to create black holes due to Welt Joyce having a lot of exposure to the Star of Eden. Joey from APHO or that molester from the manga are examples. For some reason? Divine Keys do weird things to people's genes too like making Einstein and Tesla immortal due to telolmere fuckery.

Conclusion: If they could jump over all the extra hurtles on top of being lesbians to have a kid? It might be able to take on very specific aspects of their powers?

But also you're the author, make that superpowered kid if you think it's fun. Fuck canon if it's getting in the way. Give it every power! Also I don't think mihoyo put as much thought into this as we are doing right now so you can just make up whatever you want.

[aceduchessdragoness]

[id: 1st picture is a fact taken from Wikipedia that says, “Sharks can have cancer. The misconception that sharks do not get cancer was spread by the 1992 book Sharks Don’t Get Cancer,”

2nd picture is a 1 panel comic. It’s a drawing of a teacher looking at her laptop and saying, “Okay, middle school students, it’s the first Tuesday in February. This means that by law and custom, we must spend the morning reading through the Wikipedia article List of Common Misconceptions, so you can spend the rest of your lives being a little less wrong. The guests at every party you’ll ever attend thank us in advance.”

Pictures 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 are more facts from the Wikipedia article: “Urine is not sterile, even in the bladder.” / “Female praying mantises rarely eat the males during reproduction, especially in their natural environment. In a study in a laboratory at the University of Central Akransas, it was observed that 1 out of 45 times the female ate the male before mating, and the male ate the female with the same frequency.” / “Sugar does not cause hyperactivity in children. Double-blind trials have shown no difference in behavior between children given sugar-full or sugar-free diets, even in studies specifically looking at children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or those considered sensitive to sugar. A 2019 meta-analysis found no positive effect of sugar consumption on mood but did find an association with lower alertness and increased fatigue within an hour of consumption, known as a sugar crash.” / “All humans learn in fundamentally similar ways. In particular, there is no evidence that people have different learning styles, or that catering teaching styles to purported learning styles improves retention.” / ““420” did not originate from the Los Angeles police or penal code for marijuana use. California Penal Code section 420 prohibits the obstruction of access to public land. The use of “420” started in 1971 at San Rafael High School, where it indicated the time, 4:20 pm, when a group of students would go to smoke.”

Picture 8 is another fact: “Infants can and do feel pain.”

Picture 9 is a fact and picture 10 is a reaction: “People do not swallow large amounts of spiders during sleep. A sleeping person makes noises that warn spiders of danger.” And the next image is of a person pointing in confusion.

Pictures 11 and 12 are comments regarding the “learning styles” fact:

11:

micheghost02: I’ll have to look into the misconception about learning styles. As someone who has an auditory processing disorder, i benefit from more with a visual and hands on process (if available, can’t do hands on with history).

dementedmk, @micheghost02: I could be wrong here, but my guess is that this probably doesn’t take processing disorders or similar learning challenges into account, which makes it less true as a universal statement but might be more specifically helpful for the general population? Idk

tinbells: Yea. the learning styles one, has like… ignores the existence of people with disabilities? Also doesn’t make is obvious the kind of ways we teach doesn’t line up with how people learn.

chlora-boii: the learning styles one is super suspect

12:

gay-4-space, @chlora-boii @tinbells: the learning styles one has quite a bit of scientific literature to back it up, not just the ones linked in the article. And yes, it does ignore people with disabilities as its focusing of the idea of the general public, while most papers and reviews of the topic acknowledge that people have preferences in how information is presented, the retention of that information is

gay-4-space: is not affected by those different types. I have a learning disability myself so I was also skeptical but the science to back it up in the general populace just isn’t there /id]

wikipedia is a gem

[atiny-piratequeen]

*Image of Jongho and Whiro posted is a paid commission from twt artist Hizu with permission. Please respect both Hizu and I and do not repost or use the artwork anywhere else. Thank you

Character Analysis: Choi Jongho, the 'Great Evil'

Languages: Māori, English, Samoan (Modern Day), Tahitian (Modern Day), Hawaiian (Modern Day), Japanese (Modern Day),  Korean (Modern Day), Icelandic (Modern Day), Haitian (Modern Day), Thai (Modern Day)

Crew Position: Gunner

Powers: Umbrakinesis/Darkness (Inherited from Maori God, Whiro)

Compass Position + Arrowpoint Stone: South West, Right Hip (Mirrors Yunho’s), Obsidian

Eye Color: Brown (Natural), Red (Whiro/ Full Demonic Form)

Hair Color: Black, Blonde (Demon Form)

Piercings: Jacob’s Ladder

Tā Moko: Along his left  pectoral, a complete ta moko from his buttocks down to his ankles,  along his face and arms (Situational, using his Umbrakinnesis and Whiro himself)

Likes: Fighting (Specifically with Whiro Nowadays), Being in Wooded Areas, Showing Off His Tā Moko, Having His Lovers Run Their Fingers Over His Tā Moko and Scars

Dislikes: People Being In His Space, Whiro’s Complaining, Excessive Amounts of Affection, Bell Peppers

Jongho, Māori warrior of Aotearoa.

The son of the village’s tohunga tā moko, Jongho lived most of his life in comfort. He had the honor of being one of the village’s most promising warriors, excelling in his training and being loved by all of the members of his village. 

They were all close, a family. 

No one is closer to him than Mateo, the chief’s son. Together, the two of them are inseparable. As long as they stay together, nothing can touch them, not even the rival tribe threatening peace as they know it. 

As long as they stay….together….

Bounty Hunter Jongho.

Loss shapes a man. Hollowed out and gutted of most emotion other than fury and rage, loss burns away all that you once were. Revenge is his mission now. Redemption. 

Redeeming himself is just a matter of bringing down more and more of the world’s lowlifes. The more people he takes out, the closer he is to redeeming himself for his past errors.  It’s just that simple. 

Life is simpler when you don’t have to think. 

Gunner Jongho.

Through some chaotic and unorthodox circumstances-though, at this point, its to be expected-Jongho is now surrounded by Hongjoong and co. He’s by no means welcomed by all, but as long as he can make amends for his mistakes, he’s willing to deal with the scrutinizing and disapproving glances cast his way. 

The winds of change are blowing for the young gunner. Though bullheaded and stubborn, Jongho will soon realize just how valuable he is to the crew. 

Ah, as soon as he can quiet that annoying asshole, Whiro first. Gods, he really doesn’t shut up, does he?

-Mythology-

Whiro-te-tipua (Whiro the demon) is the Maori god of all things associated with evil, darkness, and death. It is said the reason why people have darkness in their hearts is his doing. 

Whiro’s story begins somewhat at the same time as his siblings. As their father, the sky itself, Ranginui embraced Papatūānuku, their mother, earth, all of their offspring became trapped between them. This created a divide between some of them. 

For some, they enjoyed the darkness and crampedness that came from being so close together because of their parents. 

For others, namely Whiro himself, the dark and dreary conditions were ideal. 

The conflicting ideals lead to a struggle, as Tāne-mahuta, the god of forests and light came up with a plan to separate their parents. The amount of offspring that were against the idea and stood with Whrio were outnumbered by the ones who wished to be free and sided with Tāne, and as such, Tāne separated their parents, forcing their father Rangi up and away from Papa. 

Whiro despised the mere thought of separating their parents, for reasons ranging between not liking how cold and vast the outside would be if they did so, to disagreeing with the method of separating their parents being to sever their limbs. His words, however, were not as convincing as Tāne’s, and thy proceeded with the younger god’s plan.

As such, the sky was separated from the earth, and the offspring were allowed to finally separate. 

...and evil himself, Whiro, was also unleashed into the world, as well.

The ills of the world-including sickness and disease-are said to be Whiro’s doing in his constant mission to destroy man and mankind, as they are the creation of Tāne after he separated their primordial parents. 

In one of their neverending feuds, Tāne began an ascent to the heavens to obtain the Wananga (important and sacred knowledge and lore) on behalf of Io. Whiro, once again, flew into a jealous rage, as he offered himself to ascend to obtain the knowledge, but his method of ascent was shot down, while Tāne’s method was preferred by their siblings, and he was chosen over Whiro-again. 

Fed up with being bested, Whiro took matters into his own hands and decided to try beating Tāne to the heavens, getting a head start to try and obtain the knowledge all for himself instead. 

This did not go unnoticed, and Tane was accompanied by the Whanau-puhi (the Wind Children) to aid in his ascent as Whiro began sending animals and insects to try and slow him down. Flying insects, reptiles, and carrion-eating birds were all sent Tāne’s way to hinder him as Whiro tried to best him, even drawing blood from the god to be used later in potions that destroy life itself.

Getting cocky, Whiro didn’t utilize his advantage and stopped several times to taunt Tāne, waiting for his younger brother to continue before sending another horde after him, reveling in the fact that he had the upper hand for once. 

Whiro’s cockiness cost him the opportunity to get the knowledge he had set out to obtain, as Tāne somehow beat all the odds and got to the top, regardless. 

During his decent from the heavenly mountain, Whiro-now pissed once more at yet another loss to Tāne-sent another horde after him. The Whanau-puhi stepped in again, taking some of the horde as captives and bringing them to our world. 

Because of this, we have mosquitos, sandflies, mantises, hawks, bitterns, bats, owls, parrots, and keases. 

The two continued to feud, eventually breaking out into a full war.

One of which, again, Tāne won.

Whiro now resides in the underworld, and is considered one of the most active of Māori deities. His persistence is ruthless and neverending in his mission to destroy man.

He is represented by a lizard and other reptiles native to New Zealand, and as such, the creatures were both feared and incredibly respected. A lizard is said to be an emissary of Whiro and a harbinger of death. 

Some said when the gods themselves are ready and decide to destroy a man, they place a lizard inside of his body, allowing the creature to devour his vitals, ultimately killing him.

For now,  a mere fragment of the great god resides inside of our Jongho.

He really likes Yeosang’s cooking, so I doubt there will be any vital eating lizards anytime soon.

-Power Applications/Demon Transformation-

Jongho was born and raised a Māori warrior, and as such, is a force to be reckoned with even without Whiro’s assistance. Through training games such as ti rākau, poi rākau, tītī torea, and te whai wawewawe a Māui, his eyesight has been sharpened to pick up even the most minute of bodily or environmental changes in battles in an instant. His body is incredibly nimble and his footwork in battle far surpasses the others.

Before being paired with Whiro, Jongho could hold his own with his weapons from home and his bare hands. He carries three weapons on him at all times, at the very least. 

The first of these weapons is his taiaha, a weapon made of either whalebone or wood that is very similar to a quarterstaff and a spear. Feathers were attached to the neck of the weapon, just below the sharpened end of it used for stabbing. The purpose of the feathers was to cause a visual distraction in the form of the ruffling feathers, be it from a sharp or subtle movement from the wielder to catch the attention of an opponent. Once distracted, the wielder would use both their footwork, flexible wrists, and speed to strike with the other end of the weapon and either go for a bludgeoning shot with the blunt end or a stab with the sharpened one. 

The second weapon Jongho usually keeps on his person is a blunt weapon that sports intricate carvings in it. It, like many Māori traditional weapons, was made either by whalebone or wood. They are striking weapons used for close quarter type fighting and with the right amount of power and force, can break bones or dislocate shoulders. 

They are also used in important meetings as a tool to command attention and punctuate important points to pay attention to. 

The final physical weapon Jongho carries on him at all times, even in Modern Day AtT, is the mere pounamu he took on when Mateo passed away from battle wu.  Highly prized and considered to be one of, if not the most sacred of Māori weapons. It is a weapon passed down generations and used as a sign of chieftainship. The weapon is teardrop-shaped, and made from jade stone. There is a hole drilled into the base of it for a wrap to be attached to the wrist to keep it from slipping during combat. He used it faithfully to honor Mateo after his death until Yunho gifted him with a mere he and Geb crafted themselves created from charoite. 

Though the two of them butt heads, Whiro and Jongho come together for combat, with Whiro often forming beside Jongho as a mirror image of him, sans the tā moko that covers his face and his hair taking a blonde color. Both of their eyes turn a crimson red, and when they are further attuned to each other, Jongho also gains a tā moko across his face, the most sacred type of tā moko (though all of his tā mokos that are formed from Whiro’s umbrakinesis are temporary and can be dispelled at any time). 

Though the two don’t get along at all when they first merge, they fight in unison, with both of their warrior instincts tugging them through battle with the combined strength and knowledge of a warrior and a god. 

Jongho’s shadows can fluctuate and are one of the stronger of the powers the crew members has. He can still create shadows in a completely lit room from nothing, though Whiro thrives even more in darker conditions. They can be solid forms, forming powerful tendrils to lash out with, or be shot at like projectiles, but they can also be used for reconnaissance, with the shadows able to go under doors and the like. 

Though, recon isn’t Jongho or Whiro’s thing. 

When not in combat, Jongho uses his powers, even when resting, keeping Whiro’s shadow form stretched across his arms like a tā moko. At first, this was solely because Jongho didn’t trust the god not to try and strangle him in his sleep (despite him being immortal) or inconvenience him if he fully let his guard down, but the more the two spend time together, the more it seems neither minds each other’s presence as much, and it comes second nature to them.

Maybe there’s even a base level of fondness and respect forming. Though you didn’t hear that from me. 

-Character Song Breakdown-

All of the main boys have a song assigned to them in the AtT playlist to go alongside their origin chapters. Jongho’s character song is Lose My Life by Papercut Massacre. I will go over some spoiler things, but if you made it this far, you may know this already.

Trigger Warning: Jongho’s self-destructive behavior, while not intentional on his behalf, is borderline suicidal, so please tread with caution when reading the short character song breakdown, if not, feel free to skip to the character blurb and take care, everytiny.

Jongho’s song breakdown will be on the shorter end, but the song was chosen because of Jongho’s disposition during the majority of his chapter after Mateo’s death.

As a warrior, losing your life in battle is the highest honor one can have, but Jongho takes the full brunt of the blame for Mateo’s death for not being with him when he was fatally wounded.

-Don’t fret, they’re coming

They’re lining up to join me

To save us all

Which ones will fall

They don’t even care we’re here

How do you save someone without fear?

The voices screaming

Stop!

Look what we started

The heroes falling

Could you say that you would give your life tonight?

The sky is burning

The fear consuming

I’ll live forever if I lose my life tonight.-

Jongho spends years of his life completely uncaring if he lives or dies, as long as he can redeem himself for, in his own mind, being the one who let Mateo down and lead to his death. This develops a form of dark hero-complex within the warrior-turned-bounty hunter that persists after Wooyoung and Hongjoong save him and take him aboard the ship. 

In his mind, for a while, he’ll be redeemed if he can give his life protecting or saving someone else, and it isn’t until he does so and is saved by being the last man turned by Hongjoong that he lets go of the self-destructive behavior and learns to be more cautious when protecting the people around him.

-Character Blurb-

Jongho stared out at the waves, the black lines on his arms shifting every now and again as he stared at the horizon. The air was good today, and he breathed in deeply before he stiffened ever so slightly when the wood behind him creaked. 

“It’s just me.”

His shoulders relaxed marginally as Wooyoung appeared at this side, watching the horizon with him. Jongho sent him a look before he turned his head back towards the ocean. 

“Sorry. Force of habit.”

“No, I get it. I should know better than to come up behind you like that.” 

The two fell into silence again, just enjoying each other’s presence. Jongho pursed his lips for a moment before he looked down at Wooyoung. 

“Why did you save my life back then? Why didn’t you let me get what I deserved?” He inquired. Wooyoung sent him a look, opening his mouth to rip him a new one when Jongho waved his hands, slightly flustered. 

“No, no, I don’t mean it like that. I mean, at the time I did but like. Ugh just, why did you save me?” 

Wooyoung stared at him for a moment before he laughed lightly and looked out at the sea.

“You reminded me of San. Just...you kicked my ass a bit more than he did. But you reminded me of San so much when you actually listened to me...well, when you read what I had to say. I thought ‘well, if we could save San and bring light to his eyes, maybe we can do it to this dude too, y’know, if the others don’t kill him for crushing my windpipe and shattering my voice box.’” he chirped nonchalantly, despite the way Jongho cringed. Whiro barked out a laugh in his head, but he ignored him for the time being, running a hand through his long hair.

“The same eyes, huh. That’s something.”

“Yeah. I may have been naive, but following my heart lead to me saving another piece of myself so I think it’s okay.” Wooyoung mused, a soft smile on his face as he reached down to hook his pinky with Jongho’s. The younger man looked at their hands and fully pushed them together, lacing their fingers together as he gave him a squeeze. 

“I’m glad for your naive heart, then.” 

“Ew, all of these soft ass emotions are going to make me barf. I’ll do it, you know. Right in your mind. Mind barf, everywhere. Dunno if I can actually do it, but I’ll find a way.” 

“Whiro, shut the fuck-”

-M.List-

[cabopineforest]

It will soon be 1 year since I first found about Hollow Knight. So I'm gonna allow myself to summon my knowledge of English and talk A LOT about my headcanon story of Pale King. Beware! 

(actually, if someone is reading this for real, I want to see your opinion, I want to discuss it with someone, it's in my mind 24/7 for several months by now, I need to share it, please, please)

(also there are two more pictures)

Pale King! Yes, he is the most interesting character for me in Hollow Knight. He is always there, you can find mentions of him a lot through the game, but at the same time we know nothing about him. And his personality and life seems to be very interesting. That's why it is interesting to talk about him, everyone has their own head canons, that sometimes contradict each other. And I'm gonna say, everything I write here is not the theories, most of it has no indication in the game itself. But for me it is interesting to see PK like this.

So let's start with some lore. I have my own headcanon about Higher Beings: they are some kind of powerful creatures that have their own mind. There are also the simple creatures, that are not higher beings, have no mind on their own, and they are more like animals, living simple life of surviving and continuing life cycle. But they can be chosen by some god that can affect their minds and make them like he wants them to be, worshiping this god in return.

A simple creature can't become a true higher being, a higher being can't become a simple being. Children of higher beings are higher beings.

Some of these higher beings can ascend and become gods. Gods are even more powerful beings that have unlimited access to the dream realm and can affect simple creature's minds through it. But gods need to be worshiped, otherwise they will lose their powers and disappear.

So they live like that, simple beings are separate and are like mindless animals, higher beings are separate and can live on their own as much as they want, gods and creatures given minds (god's people) are living in symbiosis, giving each other a reason to exist.

So. Pale King, Unn, NKG, Shade Lord, Radiance are definitely gods. White Lady may be a god. Hornet, the vessels, the dreamers, Vespa, Bardoon, the Great Knights, maybe snail shamans, maybe Seer, the Hunter, mantises — these are higher beings.

Now for the story.

Pale Wyrm was already a god, and he was searching for a place to stop, find people for him and create a kingdom. As we established, he needed it because this was his nature as a god, he needed to be worshiped and remembered.

His goal was to create a vast and magnificent kingdom that would be considered one of the best in the world, or even the best in the world. In general, he was very ambitious. But at the same time, he was smart, well-versed in politics and science. He also understood that he would not be able to achieve his goal if he was a huge creature, and so he wanted to be more like his future subjects, luckily he had the ability to "regenerate".

So he was wandering wastelands until he found a mountain with a village on top that was populated by moths. Moths saw the giant unknown creature on their territory and called for their god, that was the Radiance. And she went to drive the intruder from her territory. There was a battle that ended in victory of the Radiance. Wyrm took too mush damage and was forced to run away. Eventually he died near Radiance's territory and turned into a small worm.

That's how the conflict between PK and the Radiance started.

PK got stuck in these lands for a bunch of time and had no choice but to use them. He started to explore, found simple bugs and led them, started to create Hallownest and became a God-King. Probably at this point he met White Lady, and they fell in love with each other.

Radiance was a danger for Pale King and Hallownest, so he decided to get rid of her. At some point, maybe with the help of White Lady, he managed to steal all the moths from her. Moths started to worship Pale beings, Radiance became powerless and was banished. Everyone forgot about her. PK forbade anyone, even himself, to approach the former moth lands, and the moths moved to the caverns known as resting grounds.

The King created Hallownest. He made a technological breakthrough in the bug world, creating a semblance of electricity, trams, elevators, stagways. He was interested in architecture and designed the capital himself. He expanded borders, interacted with other gods and lands, conducted trade, introduced currency. He also was into knighthood, fighting and stuff. Hallownest was populated not only by simple creatures that had no choice but to worship their god, but also by lots of higher beings, that were loyal to Pale beings.

You can say that PK has achieved his goal, and he was proud of it.

At some point he discovered that there is a living mindful black goo right under his lands that was leaking in some places and killing bugs. He began to study the void, and the void didn't like the intruder. Kingsmoulds and wingmoulds were considered to be safe, but at least one kingsmould became something unusual, harmless, with mind, voice and some kind of goal, we know this creature as the collector... But later about it. Or not.

So Hallownest was at the greatest state of its existence, when someone found the way to forgotten moth lands and saw the statue of the Radiance. This was the first infected bug, but then more and more became infected and started dying. The Radiance began to regain her power.

There were several ways to get rid of the infection suggested. Some of them were totally insane, like Soul Master's plan. Pale King understood this, of course, and forbade him to conduct experiments. PK didn’t want to sacrifice his subjects, so he decided to sacrifice part of himself. His children, to be precise.

So he and White Lady created a ton of vessels. Most of them died right after birth and became shades. Some of them stayed alive, but PK was kinda afraid of these unpredictable and potentially dangerous creatures (because he already saw what void is capable of during his experiments with it), that's why he decided to throw them back where they came from and took only one mindless vessel.

So he trained the Pure Vessel. I actually prefer to think that Vessel left the Palace (or their couple of rooms in the Palace) only twice in their life: when they were transported from the Abyss to the Palace and from the Palace to the Black Egg. They haven't seen anything except for those several rooms, their father, training kingsmoulds and wingmoulds, rarely their mother, they'd seen the dreamers, Hornet and the great knights maybe once or twice in their life. This was done to make sure that they would not be attached to anything (haha, Pale King, good job). And when Hollow was saved in Embrace the Void ending, they were thrown into the world they maybe heard about but didn't know anything.  "Why there is a tablet on this house? What are these symbols? What is food? Are these leaves food? What is a wind? What is a tictic? Why am I asking this? Why do I care? Should I care? They won't kill me because I care, right? Right??" Ok, this is also a different topic, but they all are connected, aaaaaaaaaaaaa

It's not like Pale King didn't care about the vessels. He just chose safety of his people over his weird creations and wanted to achieve his goal no matter what. Any cost to succeed. No cost too great. There is no other way. (Probably he foresaw that this is the only possible way, at least to stop the Radiance temporary. Maybe there really was no other way). Pale King cared about the Pure Vessel as much as about everyone in his kingdom (basically they all are his creations as well).

But he sacrificed the life of his creation and the lives of the dreamers to seal the Radiance. The infection stopped and Hallownest started to recover and live like it did before.

And after some time the infection returned, now quicker and deadlier than before. Bugs started to die, dead husk turned into zombie suiciders, that started to not only kill each other and non-infected bugs, but also had a goal to kill PK directly. The Radiance threw waves after waves of husks to the Palace, and it turned into a constant battlefield.

Now... Imagine that you are a bug in the City of Tears. You have no place to hide. The gates in the capital are closed, everyone is under a quarantine but it doesn't help. There is no food. The last doctor died yesterday. You hear the infected great sentries right behind your door, and they can break the door and kill you at any moment. There is no way for you to escape. Your parents have died this morning. You are a 5-year-old child and you are hiding under the bed. No one can help you because everyone in the tower you live are already dead. Yeeeeaaaah, did you know that Hollow Knight is actually a very depressing horror game? Try to not think about it.

But returning to the Pale King. He knew about the horror that was happening in Hallownest. He realised that he can't trust anyone, every servant can be infected. He realised that he sacrificed lives of innocents and it was all for nothing. That Hollow was not hollow, and they understood all of this. He realised that his great kingdom is falling apart and this is his fault. And this was too much for him.

All that deal with moving the Palace into the dream was because Pale King wanted to be in safety, find another way to get rid of the Radiance and temporary rule Hallownest from a safe place. White Lady refused to go into the dream realm with him (because of some reasons? Maybe she wasn't able to enter the dream realm. I already mentioned that I doubt she is a god), so she moved into her gardens and hid her body and mind there.

So the Dream Palace consists of several parts, several levels of reality, so to say: 1) Parts of the real White Palace that were moved into a dream. The platforms, the windows, the throne room. 2) Parts that were created by Pale King's memories, dreams and nightmares. This is the cutscene with Pure Vessel in the end of the Path of Pain — this is his memory of that moment when he could realize that Pure Vessel is not pure and his plan won't work, but he didn't. Also the crib room — this room never existed in the real palace, but here it is a reminder of the fact that he could have had a family. The music of void creatures makes this room even more depressing. 3) Parts that were created by PK to protect himself and his memories. These are buzzsaws, spikes, spears. He knew that there can be dreamwielders somewhere, like Seer, and wanted them not to find him and the fact that he messed up. There are also the seals, like the Seal of Binding near the entrance of the Path of Pain.

So you could already realise that by that point Pale King stuck in a cycle of constant paranoia, shame, regret, helplessness and depression. And there were less and less people remembering him, even if all the Hallownest seals, reminders of him, were everywhere, there was no people to see them. This made him powerless.

Aaaand then the void sensed the weakened god, it's enemy, came into a dream, easily passed all the traps, found the Pale King and swallowed him alive.

Pum pum pum puuuuuuuuuum Directed by Robert B Wiede

Summary: Pale King had to be worshiped in order to exist, had a great scientific and politic mind, actually cared about his people, established the greatest kingdom, had a bunch of powerful enemies, was too stubborn about his plans and goals, made a couple of fatal mistakes, which made him fail eventually. And he went insane. Yes.

Thank you for reading this. Really. Thank you. Thank you. Let me know what you think of it and what headcanons you have and what mistakes I made...

[snowtimeisbesttime]

Thoughts and questions on Volume 9, routes 1 and 2! (a day late orz.)

-The entire volume in a picture: that one crying cat that's white and Screming. Both with and without heart emojis, as there's both happystuck and sadstuck here.

~ROUTE 1~

-Nepeta, canonically: :33c

-MC's just doing friendship stuffs because they don't have anything else to do now... Recovering their Friendsim memories AND discovering they can't get to their old friends anymore's really put a damper on their mood, at least here.

-No matter the universe or game you come from, cat rps are forever.

-just like jade, sgrub would have allowed nepeta to finally meet her friends in person........

-Nep stims with her claw gloves and doesn't really do the whole eye contact thing. She also clearly values not being lied to, as seen in how many times she asks MC if they really know Equius; I'm not sure if that Need to be Completely Sure of what people are telling her is because she has been hurt before*, but if it is I'm going to be very :,((( and also DDD:<

*like how rejection sensitive dysphoria is an adhd thing but Also is kinda because of trauma?? anyways. in this house we stan nepeta leijon and would lay down our lives for her.

-UM those dreams of Nepeta's sure sound like dreambubbles... and the easiest way to access the dreambubbles (besides physically going to the Furthest Ring) is going to sleep without a dreamself... so what's up with Dream Nepeta??? is she alright???? and if not then Why would she specifically get offed???

-Regarding Nep's not seeing the MC in her dreams: until very recently, all of their alternate selves were hovering around alpha MC, and then they were absorbed into them. That might be a thing to consider??

-We get a brand-new Narratively Unimportant Trait: Nepeta used to live in a normal hive until it -and likely also her neighbourhood- was apparently destroyed by drones or something for who knows why, and that's the reason she now lives in a cave in the middle of nowhere. She doesn't clearly remember this event, probably because she was very, very young (and she's 13 here) and because it was extremely traumatic. And she almost certainly hasn't had any face to face interaction with another troll since then... no wonder Pounce's so purrotective of her.

-(how'd she get things like wifi or sopor slime for her cave?)

-Nepeta managed to escape certain death by fleeing to the wastes, but where does Polypa live in Friendsim's present time? I might be wrong but iirc she does not live with Tegiri...? then again, Nep still has her lusus.

-newsflash: alternia is suck

-MEOWRAILS REUNION!!!!!! fimally.... (though wouldn't equius have told nepeta about the mc??)

-In her group end, she gets to befriend Jade and Dave even if she doesn't meet Equius irl, and they bond over their respective fursonas.

-Why does Nepeta have Two Good Ends? Because she deserves it (and because her bad end is very sad).

-MC's powers sure are growing, if they're able to teleport people without touching them and also overpower Bec. Not that they're of use in Nep's bad end, where Dave and Jade just. Dissolve into alternia or something.

-On the topic of Narratively Unimportant Traits again: remember how screwed up Dave's and Jade's respective upbringings were??? Here's a reminder!! He just holds MC's guts in place when they take Pounce's attack (and outright says he's got experience with that kind of wounds); meanwhile she sews them up- it's the first time she sews up something that isn't a corpse. And both of them had to get their medicine from... unusual sources, to say the least.

-nepeta went to get some leaves, to heal mc

~ROUTE 2~

-One'd expect the MC to know about Sollux at least, considering what went down in Karkat's routes... unless they don't have access to their memories of Pesterquest's bad ends?

-They heard about him enough to get incredibly hyped up about befriending him, though! And by “incredibly” I mean Please Chill A Little.

-Where in Nepeta's route they were just sad and really bummed out, here MC is convinced that there's another mastermind using them and their friendship quests for who knows what nefarious purposes; they also ponder what else they might have forgotten. Considering we did many stuffs to Pesterquest's reality in Aradia's route, who is it with the Evil Plans this time???

-how does gamzee even have a driving license / access to a (clown) car?????????

-Of course Sollux picks the bee-themed train. How many other Bug Themes might Alternian trains have? Because there's a lot of fancy and funky bugs... many butterflies, ladybugs, orchid mantises...

-mc's phone confirmed to be 1) still alive and 2) a troll nokia or something

-According to Sollux, MC's been messaging him non-stop for the last few days?? We don't get any confirmation on this happening, but we know that Sollux can actively perceive MC's narration- just as he could perceive CD's commands back in Homestuck. (Dave, who can also hear the narration, had something similar with AR; Terezi and Rose also perceived their exiles' commands, but the only one to also have Weird Meta Shit in Pesterquest was Rose.)

-Remember when we though Karkat was stranded on Earth on his good end? Well it looks like Sollux's the one actually stranded, in his bad end! Hope either MC'd get him back home eventually or he found somewhere safe to camp....... though it's a bad end so we'll have to wait and see if it's referenced later on.

-Sollux is understandably still upset about being used by Vriska to kill Aradia, which we know happened about a sweep ago. No but really, what's up with PQ!Aradia?? Why did she just disappear?

-He's also understandably freaked out about the whole “finding out a random troll whose voice he heard (= is going to die soon) is in the same bee-themed train compartment as him” thing; did MC's mere presence avert that possible bad future, or what?

-We get confirmation that Sollux's psionics are stronger than Azdaja's and Kuprum's, though we pretty much knew this already. More like it's further established that stronger psionics equals smoother movement.

-what's that, gamzee didn't completely break all the laws of physics* when he got out of the cloun car? fear not- sollux's going to take care of that with his powers! (*he did cronch all his bones though)

-Sollux and Kanaya are friends! Though (iirc) they didn't really interact that much in Homestuck, they were close enough to go through what sounds like some sort of aesthetically recognizable phase together... and whatever it was, we're sure as hell not finding out. At least in this timeline, Kanaya introduced Feferi to Sollux.

-solluxander is canon btw

-There is some extra worldbuilding about psionics, which basically amounts to “if you overuse them you'll perish” (which we also knew already) but like, with chemistry stuffs. Considering our Friendsim psionics, age almost surely affects a troll's ability to not keel over after using their powers too much...

[introspectral]

Mantis smiled, her cheeks turning pink. "I wouldn't go as far as saying I'm exceptional, unless your understanding of the word includes... praying to the universe and giving goodnight kisses to plants. I met Groot when he was a baby plant, so I assumed all plants needed equal affection. But I was surprised when I found out Earth mantises also pray!" She bit the nail of her thumb. "Wait, do they? Do they not? I should find one and ask them directly. In any case, I'm glad I made you feel hopeful!"

Vision very seriously considered the words she had offered him. Was someone who prayed to the universe and kissed plants goodnight an exceptional person. He did not have to think long. “That is very exceptional, Mantis. There are not many who would do such things, especially for plants.” Plants. Hmm. Vision’s gaze unfocused for a moment as he scanned his memory archive for all things plant-related. “I... once loved plants very much. I spoke to them as well. We seem to have an affinity for them in common,” he observed.

He didn’t know if mantises prayed, so he quickly looked it up by accessing the internet. “It appears that what is called ‘praying’ is merely the aesthetic of doing so, observed by human beings who anthropomorphize the insects by emotionally attributing intentions to them that they do not actually possess. It is merely the way they hold their limbs, and to humans, it resembles hands drawn together in prayer,” he explained...

...but then he blinked. “Could you actually ask a praying mantis questions?” If so, that was utterly fascinating. Vision was very much uncertain of how much Mantis could or could not communicate with other common mantid species on planets like Earth.

[flame-shadow]

I suppose I should start by expounding on why I ask the question. It's been something in the back of my mind for about two years now, ever since I tried to write a fic and realized that I couldn't remember any mention of time or timekeeping, and it was taking me out of the story to have a bug say "in five seconds..." when they might not even know what a second is. Or a minute. Or an hour. Or a day in the way that we know it, as surface-dwellers with a reliable sun that isn't linked to or influenced by a jealous deity.

[fun fact! Elderbug's beta dialogue includes two uses of the word "day" which were removed in the final game dialogue. In the cut content section of the wiki, there are a couple notes for removing terms like "day to day" and "today" to take away time specificity and emphasize the long night]

For these speculations, I will try to take into account the culture, the established technology as evidenced from the game, and what seems likely based off my interpretations of the world in general. Unless specified otherwise, all of these assume a regular flow of time (a.k.a. before the extended night and the kingdom's stasis, and also no other shenanigans from higher beings). I will also exclude anything that directly relies on a celestial body, as the reliability of the sun pre-sealing of the Radiance is unknown and likely inconsistent.

Timers: These aren't clocks, but they're still useful. Customizable increments of time allowed.

-Water timers where a consistent amount of time can be measured from the level of water in a basin or other vessel. Can be made of metal, clay, wood, shell/bone; just as long as the interior is waterproof and it can be shaped for the need. Note: water flow is inconsistent from a basic basin-like timer.

-Sand timers (aka hour glasses, though the "hour" part isn't always relevant) are another simple way to measure increments of time. Make sure all the sand is the same size and flows well. If we assume glass is used for the container, then I think only Hallownest bugs would've had this type of timer to begin with, though perhaps trade would spread it.

-Candles. Likely limited to the Hive, since from what I recall, they were the most isolationist and uncooperative of the groups. If they did trade for anything, there's not much evidence of inports in the Hive itself, though perhaps they had a small export of wax that could be used by the richer of the Hallownest bugs. Lurien had candles in his tower.

Clocks: Cyclical keepers of time.

-Given the mechanical inclinations of both the Mantises and Hallownest, clocks similar to how we know them could be made and maintained. I think it would be very cool if the Mantis Village had a large pendulum clock (similar to a grandfather clock) visible and accessible to the community. Young mantises would challenge each other to fly past the pendulum without being struck.

-Watches were likely made by Hallownest bugs with their more detailed metal working capabilities. City bugs might have these to keep up with events and obligations.

Plants/fungi:

-A flower species that blooms rarely but consistently, marking the beginning of the next cycle (year). A festival marks the first day of bloom, and the celebration lasts as long as the flowers are open (roughly equivalent to a week, though factors such as temperature or soil condition or air quality could affect the length of the bloom or even when it actually opens. It is considered an unlucky year if someone tries to begin the festival before the flowers have truly bloomed. This would be something the Mosskin practiced, though perhaps a patch of flowers were kept in the Queen's Gardens for the spectacle or event too.

-A mushroom which releases spores at regular intervals.

-A mushroom whose cap changes colors with the seasons. Which seasons? Try asking Mister Mushroom.

-Bioluminescent mushrooms' glow cycle in Deepnest. Or maybe a specific kind pulses in time with "seconds" or "minutes." Similar to the above, perhaps the glow changes with an environmental change, marking a new season or cycle, however that is defined.

-A slime mold which grows steadily when fed enough of what it likes. Held within a restrictive container, it is encouraged to grow in one direction, marked at regular intervals. Perhaps this container is circular, and after the slime has traveled a certain distance, the area "behind" is cleaned and prepped for the cycle of traveling growth to perpetuate.

Misc:

-Soul. While not a widely accessible (nor accepted) material, the Soul Sanctum perhaps found a way to use it to keep or track time. Perhaps through a decay/dissipation rate, perhaps based off strength of glow, or a certain inherent pulse of the stolen life itself.

-Lumaflies. I had only had a vague thought of "these could maybe be used somehow" and @abarelysapientpairofshoes stepped up and suggested the lifespan of a lumafly in a lantern, which is a sad but practical and relatively portable method.

And, uh, yeah! That's all I got for now. Some of these ideas are more developed than others. I've used the flower blooming concept for something already, so it's a little more fleshed out, but not by much. If you have other ideas or want to build off one or more of mine, I'd love to see what you think up!

What are your thoughts on how the passage of time is observed and kept in Hallownest and/or one of the other cultures (Mosskin, Mantis, Deepnest, Moths, Fungus, etc) during the time they were thriving? Clocks, calendars, holidays, seasons... Anything time-related is up for speculation. Feel free to come up with methods that wouldn't work in our world due to a fantastical element but which would work within HK's world.

[atrahasis]

This is Me Rambling about Meta-ethics and Stuff

I'm going to regret this post.

I'm not good with this "effortpost" thing, so i’m going to ramble about this topic, stream-of-consciousness style. I promise confusion.

Disclaimer: I have no formal training in philosophy and did not read much on related subjects prior to writing this. Others have definitely done these subjects more justice.

Content warning: This post may or may not contain bullet biting or uncomfortable ideas. Also, this is a terrible post.

So one of the central questions in meta-ethics is the metaphysics of morality, right? To me, the metaphysics of morality has never seemed to be a difficult problem. That which I call ‘morality’ appears to just consist of individual’s moral preferences. Moral rightness in this sense then refers to either what one intrinsically morally prefers or to conclusions following from said preferences.   

Basically, I don’t know what this moral realism thing is about. Like, it appears when normal folk talk about moral rightness/truth, they seem to be talking about a sort of truth akin to empirical truth or mathematical truth. But ‘moral truth’ doesn’t appear to have the same characteristics as these other truths that would make moral truth like these other truths. 

You can go ahead and declare moral truth to be all about maximising the number of positive sum interactions or about maximising the timespan of human existence or about minimising neurally-measured pain. But saying moral truth is about X still lacks that truth-aptness of empirical and mathematical truth. How does one even go about proving this truth.

Basically, i’m not even sure what moral realists are trying to convince me of.

I should not be mistaken as saying that morals do not affect outcomes. Different moral preferences may lead to different actions/policies, and different policies would lead to different outcomes. 

Don’t know why I felt the need to say this but I did.

So if I were to label my meta-ethics, i’m probably a non-cognitivist. 

I’ll anticipate a number of questions/concerns for the non-cognitivist here. 

The first is on how intrinsic these moral sentiments are to the individual, which would in turn affect which moral statements the individual accepts as true. Or, how much can one person’s moral makeup differ in said person given different contexts. On this I am agnostic. 

The second is about how much should we expect for humanity’s moral preferences to vary, from person-to-person Some have warned against overestimating human moral variance but I don’t know. I think as long as we’re philosophizing here, we may as well consider the most extreme hypotheticals.

The third is the concern that the rejection of ‘moral rightness’ will lead to some sort of moral relativism, an acceptance of all moral stances since their based on these intrinsic preferences anyway. Well i’m not a moral relativist, since I can’t be made to prefer just any moral stance. To be fair, believing in moral non-cognitivism probably has nudged the moral stances of some individuals. That Jonathan Haidt fellow claims to have moved towards the center as a result of his moral psychology studies. Although an alternate response would be to view those morally far from you to be irredeemably evil.

Which brings us to this concern: Wouldn’t this just mean that morality, moral arguments, disagreements, these morality wars, may as well be a zero-sum free-for-all? Hmmmmm. More on this later perhaps?

Moral realism seems popular though. I suspect this is due to folks feeling that moral truth has this sort of nature to it that makes it similar to empirical/mathematical truth. 

If I may be allowed to be accusatory: I suspect that a number, perhaps a lot, of moral realists oppose non-cognitivism because they fear of the consequences of such a belief. They fear a slide into moral relativism. 

I shouldn’t be the one to point this out but, believing that belief X is wrong because of the psychological consequences of having said belief, is bad justification for X being wrong. That’s belief in belief. 

Is this were the case, than i’d just put ‘moral non-cognitivism’ into the same category as ‘atheism’, ‘arguments against free will’, ‘arguments against Dweckian growth mindset’, ‘Darwininan natural selection’ and ‘Charles Murray-ism’ as positions prone to opposition from believers-in-belief.

The thing is, moral conversion is definitely a thing. I’m not sure as to the underlying mechanism for moral conversion. Perhaps it’s a terminal/instrumental values kind of thing, whereby only individuals’ instrumental values change. Or perhaps humans’ terminal values are somewhat malleable.  

Perhaps my largest moral conversion was during my religious apostasy. I’m not sure what gives Divine Command Theory this particular power that it has. I do however remember not being comfortable with some of God’s commands so perhaps i’m overestimating this power of DCT.

Regardless, those interested in converting others to their moral side might want to look into the underlying processes of moral conversion.

So, are the moral wars zero-sum. Not necessarily. It’s conceivable that two individuals may come to support the same policies using different moral justifications.  

Also, perhaps a collection of individuals with different moral preferences may be able to live somewhat harmoniously. Here’s an analogy: Praying mantis’ (the insect) values differ greatly from my own. However, their existence does not endanger things that I do value and thus, I leave them alone. Should the same praying mantises be human-sized human-eaters, then would I have a problem with their ‘values’. Similarly, other humans with values different from my own, i am okay with, as long they do not threaten things that I do value. It’s when they do threaten things I value, do we have a problem here.

Suppose if a Hitler clone gets his hands on reproductive cloning technology. He then seeks to outnumber other humans by flooding the Earth with Hitler clones. The Hitler population may endanger the population of other humans. From my point-of-view, extinction of non-Hitler humans by way of Hitler-clones is morally equivalent to human extinction by other means. There’s no reason for me to prefer Hitler clones over the grey goo.

All said, the zero-sum idea does somewhat color my view.

I am however somewhat optimistic that my values will live on in future humans, that future humans would not have values wildly differing from my own. I’m not sure what informs this optimism.

It’s entirely possible that some moral modes were more suited to past environments, from an evo-psych point-of-view. I suspect this is the case with conservative values, specifically in-group preference, out-group suspicion. Perhaps conservative values were better suited to the hunter-gatherer era when prisoner’s dilemma scenarios were low in iteration count, perhaps often being one-off. I just don’t see these values being well-suited to societies with more complex organisation.  

Perhaps you may think that punishing moral deviants, such as psychopaths, to be tyranny of the majority. I’m not sure I care to be honest.

So far i’ve been suggesting that individuals may differ in their moral makeup. 

This is not to say that I believe that an individual’s moral makeup is comprised of a coherent set of moral sentiments. I believe the opposite is true. This fact is implied when people talk about moral dilemmas. 

So, an individual’s quest to find out the ‘correct’ moral position in a moral dilemma, is perhaps just the individual trying to find a position that causes the least ‘internal dissonance’, so to speak. 

But atrahasis, couldn’t your positions here be used to justify social darwinistic policies of some sort?

Well, i’m against restricting others’ reproductive rights, and against killing others for fear of them breeding, as matters of principle.

We shouldn’t however avoid difficult bio-ethical questions adjacent to these topics though. We’re going to have to answer questions like whether it’s okay to delete psychopathy-linked genes in designer babies, or is reproductive human cloning in pursuit of proliferating one’s values okay?